====== Ogre Digest, October 22nd (Last: October 18th) ======== ===== Random on-topic replies From: "Chris French" ===== _OGRE_ (OK, _Battlesuit_) query From: "Chris French" ===== Idea: OGRE Merkava From: stephan beal ===== Ogre/GEV rules question From: David Barker ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Random on-topic replies > I like the idea of the BOPPERS. They're about the size of a subcompact > car, they're not very smart at all (I would expect INF to mop up BOPPERS > easily), and they're entirely nonhumanoid, thus dispensing with worries > about being mistaken for people. Considering how folks flip out at the sight of an OGRE, I suspect non-humanoid infantry would be a bit much.... (Tho' now that I think about it, a sentient OGRE with a "slave" Vulcan could use the leftovers of the armor battalion it just smack- ed seven bales of ---- out of to create its own escorts. Imagine what the Factory States could do with *this* option -- no need to worry about disloyal or unreliable humans.... >:) ) > [ Sounds like an ORC to me! -HJC] Nope -- it's a troll, not an orc. :) > Henry, and I, are referring to Ogre Minis rules. MIL on O. M.s are > totally different critters - must be related to mice, 'coz they're cheesey. Militia are best used in OGRE as they are in Reality -- put 'em some- where in the enemy's path and leave 'em there 'til they die; if they suck up a couple tanks or infantry platoons, good-o. (It would be helpful to have Morale rules for units, but that would slow things down.) > [See http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/1996/gevfeb05.txt for my take on > transporting infantry in Ogres and > http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/1998/gevdec07.txt for a more detailed > analysis. -HJC] The major failing with having the infantry following the OGRE in GEVs is the general crunchiness of the infantry and its transports. An OGRE can withstand concentrated fire; a GEV typically tips its cap to a fire team of Light Tanks (assuming European-type terrain, not the lunar surface that is the Basic OGRE map); those streams and forests make life hard for the nuclear soap bubbles. Worse, the OGRE tends to ignore the exact sorts of terrain which bring a GEV advance to a screaming halt. This leaves the OGRE trundling its merry way towards the objective, while the defender's tanks sorta arc around the beast and shred the infantry and carriers. Then it doesn't matter if the OGRE blows away the target (the usual outcome once the support teams have been X'd); the invaders still don't get what they wanted -- an intact MacGuffin as opposed to a "blowed-up" one. As for shockwave effects -- the OGRE would effectively damp most of the concussion; a properly-strapped-in trooper would receive even more bonuses. (For those of you not acquainted with auto racing, I should point out how many NASCAR drivers hit walls at 250-275 fps and live; that business at Charlotte was a "worst-case scenario".) And if, re my previous messages, the infantry battle- suits contained not flesh, but alloy exoskeletons, concussion be- comes all but irrelevant. It's a weapons *system* -- the OGRE and the battledrones ("battlesuit" + "drone") serve as a single unit, with properties of both OGRE and infantry. The battledrones provide overrun protection and scouting capacity; the OGRE provides the heavy firepower. BTW: Why is it every real-world military report I hear talks about how combat vehicles will be smaller and lighter, and yet *every single* future-warfare game has the "new" units weighing *exact- ly* twice as much as "old" units? I guess pork-barrel politics will outlast even the Factory States. CF ===== [The ability of OGREs to wade through exactly those places where GEV-PCs have problems is a feature not a bug for this oversized escort. It's a GOOD thing. -HJC] ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: _OGRE_ (OK, _Battlesuit_) query I need some information from the game _Battlesuit_ (the infantry- only _OGRE_ game), and since my copy is 900+ miles away from me at the moment, I'm wondering if someone else can provide the data I need. What I need to know is: -- Movement Point values for each type of unit in the game -- The map scale (distance from one point to another) -- The time scale (how long a turn is) Thanks. CF ===== [See GURPS OGRE, page 68. You can buy a copy at http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/ogre/ Oh, OK, don't look at me that way. The relevant quotes are: "Battlesuit map points are 40 yards apart. ... One Battlesuit movement point is 8 mph..." The timescale is therefore around 10 seconds. -HJC] ============================== From: stephan beal Subject: Idea: OGRE Merkava > From: "Chris French" ... > In game terms, the above idea swaps one missile rack and three > missiles on a Golem tank for a deployment door and three infantry > units. The Golem can only deploy or recover one IU per turn, and > only if the deployment door is working (the door has the same D > value as a missile rack). > > Thoughts, comments, questions? If only 1 IU can climb in/out in 4 minutes, i think they have a design problem. i'd allow for the whole 3-unit squad and use the standard riding rules, except that the inf are inside the Ogre, and therefor: a) aren't affected by attacks on the Ogre unless one targets the Men in the Box (what's it's defense? 3?) (and they are destroyed when the box is destroyed). b) boxed inf can't attack in an overrun. Remember, an Ogre can already carry 3 squads, but they [the inf.] suffer the penalty of being hit by any attack aimed at the Ogre (and not a spillover's half value, either). ----- stephan stephan@einsurance.de - http://www.einsurance.de Office: +49 (89) 552 92 862 Handy: +49 (179) 211 97 67 "...pleasure is a grace and is not obedient to the commands of the will." -- Alan W. Watts ============================== From: David Barker Subject: Ogre/GEV rules question I got your e-mail off the Steve Jackson website Do you still deal with rules questions? I am confused about the rules relating to over-running/ramming the train in GEV. One section of the rules says ramming the train destroys the armor unit (or does loads of damage in the case of an Ogre) and itself, but in the over-run section, it says the train is automatically destroyed by any armor unit if the train over-runs or is over-run itself. If an armor unit can automatically destroy the train with an over-run why bother ramming? Also, if an Ogre over-runs the train, but only has AP weapons left does this count as a ramming attack, or can it use the AP weapons on the train for an automatic destroy? Thanks for your help Dave Barker ===== [6.135 seems to be under the assumption that the train is unescorted. If only one LGEV survives the fire of the escorting armor its only chance to strike at the train would be to ram it and be destroyed. The train is much better armored than infantry and so cannot be harmed with AP guns. Now, if I had an OGRE what I'd do is simply cross the tracks in front of the train and then chortle as the train derails on the twisted tracks, but that's not in the rules. OK, now for the nasty trick of the day. Evil Stevie sees no problems with having only two missile racks on the Mk VI, but everybody else who takes the Mk VI close enough to use the missile racks looses them during the next turn. What does he know that we don't? Well, in GURPS Vehicles if you built a gauss cannon that was low powered with an barrel of say 2.3 feet (702mm) in diameter and 23 feet long (extremely short) then a solid warhead shell for this gun would weigh about 6500 pounds. Oddly enough the Combine's Rattler missiles are 2.3 feet in diameter, 23 feet long and weigh a little over 6000 pounds. Fine, you say, but wouldn't such a supergun weigh too much for even an Ogre to carry? The weight of a light automatic version of this gun (ROF 1/5) is under 15,000 pounds which is LESS than the weight of an unboosted Rattler Launch Rack with half the rate of fire. (The gun is also smaller, but requires 150,000kW of power or slightly more than half the drain of a secondary battery.) OK, but low powered and extremely short? That doesn't sound like a very long range gun, even if it always fires at a high angle for indirect fire. The formula (no, not THE FORMULA, quiet back there) says that 1/2D is 3000 yards and Max is 9,600 yards and indirect max is 24,000 yards or 13 and a half miles (or GEV hexes). The engine in the Rattler missile takes it further than the reach of tossing rocks so the missiles on the MK VI should have a range of 11 GEV hexes (Halving range for evasive missiles as usual.) The final insult for this injury is that the Rattler Mortar costs only $60 million (it is a gun/launcher after all), a tiny fraction of the billion+ bucks the Mk VI costs. Please ignore the fact that a HEAT round from the Rattler Mortar can burn through the front armor on a Mk VI, which a single Rattler can't... -HJC ;-] Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html