====== Ogrethulhuween Digestion, October 31st (Last: October 28th) ======== ===== LADs From: "Paul Chapman" ===== Formula munchkins From: "Chris French" From: "Noah V. Doyle" ============================== From: "Paul Chapman" Subject: LADs > I've forgotten the rules to being a LAD again. Paul can you help us > out here? -HJC] LAD 2/8 (16") D1 Mv0 * Ignores "D" results from CRT * Must be within 5 (10") from CP, or -1 Attack Strength and 1/2 Range * May be transported by a HTRK or TRK. Assembly requires 1 squad of Engineers. * Assembly Timetable -- Turn 1: HTRK and Engineers are in the same hex (or within 1"). Neither may move or attack. -- Turn 2: HTRK may move. Engineers may neither move nor attack. -- Turn 3: Engineers may move and/or attack. LAD appears. It may be targeted, but may not attack. -- Note: Any unit unable to move during this process may be targeted. If either unit is disabled during the Assembly process, the Timetable must be restarted. [This has been an official message from Steve Jackson Games' Miniatures Division.] Paul Chapman Miniatures Division Manager Steve Jackson Games paul@sjgames.com ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Formula munchkins > [Long range is NOT a problem in OGRE. After all, when's the last time > you complained about the range of a laser tower or missile crawler? No, > excessive speed is the problem with a move-shoot-scoot game. -HJC] This leads me to another topic: Many moons ago, I tried playing _OGRE_ (OK, _GEV_) with a "unified" Movement Phase: 1) First Movement Phase -- each side takes turns moving a unit 2) Fire Phase -- each side takes turns making attacks, and results are totaled (not to mention a few units) 3) Second Movement Phase -- each side takes turns moving GEVs. The result I got was much the same as the "proper" turn sequence, save that the GEVs died early in the game rather than late. Has anyone else tried this, and if so what were the results? > The hit and run ability of GEVs make them the most powerful units when > terrain is not a factor. When is terrain not a factor? I know _OGRE_ only has those "ridge" things, but the GEVs have to go around them, while the OGREs just sorta ignore them.... > Hummmm, wonder what "bounce infantry" would look like with a move of > 2/1... Stuff that -- import the MI suits from _Starship Troopers_. The armor freaks will never know what hit them. (Wonder where in the pipeline _GURPS Starship Troopers_ is. :) ) [See http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/servitor/Ogreindex/OGRTROOP.htm -HJC] > [The overrun and hit and overrun capability of LGEVs gives them a very > high effective attack strength. If you're only firing once per turn you're > conserving too much ammo! -HJC] Bah. I find all too often, the armor is parked behind a stream, which takes a GEV at least one turn to cross (HVYs ignore streams...), so either way the soap bubbles get popped. Which trundles inexorably to... "Pole-vaulting": GEV drivers may attempt to jump streambeds (the unit gathers a head of steam, then at the last moment dumps all power to lift). It is not the jumping that causes problems, tho' -- it's the landing (GEVs have nothing between their skirts and the ground -- once the unit takes flight, it's air bubble ceases to be). Game effects: The GEV player moves his unit as usual. When he reaches the stream hexside, he declares how many MP he is using that movement phase. He then rolls on the Damage Chart at [X]:1 odds, where [X] is the number of MP declared earlier. If the result is N, the unit completes its movement; if the result is D or X, the unit is disabled|destroyed in the hex the unit was moving to. The unit may jump as many streams as it can cross in that phase; how- ever, the more jumps, the more likely a crash. > [I consider Hoverblitz to be a standard part of the rules. Umm, which rule(s) is this? [The term was first defined in Philip Rennert's article on page 114 of the new OGRE Book. And can be found in final form on page 34 of Ogre Miniatures (under Resolving an Overrun Attack). Basically it says that all infantry riding on top of armor become separate targets during an overrun. This is kinda implied by GEV rule 6.133 but it's not spelled out. Shockwave rule 3.02 muddled this a little bit, but the OM rule is clear enough. -HJC] > It fixes a > hole that had always existed in GEV but that nobody had noticed before the > GEV-PC. Personally I'd change things to read that infantry always > dismounts whenever it fires and also at the start of any overrun and move > the infantry mount phase to be the last action in a player's turn. Wouldn't it simplify matters just to say that infantry may not mount and dismount in the same movement phase? [Then they simply dismount at the end of their turn and mount at the start of the next turn and are never shot at on top. -HJC] > Which is one of the reasons you see a lot of new "tank" designs in the 30 > to 40 ton range with wheels instead of tracks. Advances in engines, hulls, > suspension (and the material the "tires" are made of) have narrowed the > gap between what tracks can do over wheels. I've seen some video of these > descendents of Cadillac Gage's, and the six and eight wheel models can > cross over trenches almost as big as tracks can. They can also carry just > as big a gun (with auxiliary weapon systems) in just as big of a turret. > > They're still a little more delicate than full-blown tracked AFVs, but > only by a little, and the gap is narrowing. Ah, someone who does know what I'm talking about. :) Doesn't the WHL move rate in _OGRE_ seem, umm, a bit wimpy? [That's for ordinary trucks, not overgrown off-road SUVs armed and armored well enough to take on LA traffic. Personally, I'd say these vehicles had "Light" mobility mode. -HJC] > In fact, I'd be tempted to think that archaic armor in the game would more > likely be wheeled than tracked. Oops! Darn, there goes my excuse to use > M1A1s from Microarmor for my archaic armor units. Hmmm. Got those "Mobile > Units" from Fortress America though... > > best, > > John Hurtt (Servitor@aol.com) Weren't you once big in the _Car Wars_ scene? > However, they're both D0 against avalanches...:-) [cough coughSt.Helenscough] Oh, wait, that's a story in the second _Bolo_ anthology. > What was the quote: "Only a rock can kill the beast" or > something. -HJC] All I can think of is "We Will Rock You".... :) CF ============================== From: "Noah V. Doyle" Subject: Formula munchkins >In fact, I'd be tempted to think that archaic armor in the game would more >likely be wheeled than tracked. Oops! Darn, there goes my excuse to use >M1A1s from Microarmor for my archaic armor units. Hmmm. Got those "Mobile >Units" from Fortress America though... I'm not sure - I'd think that the substance of the tires would be far more susceptible to the heat pulse from a 'close' range blast, than the treads of a standard MBT. And don't let that stop you! :) I use all sorts of Microarmor, tracked and wheeled, for my Ogre games. Sure, they die and die, but playing without all the 'fancy' stuff can be very interesting. Makes you realize just how damn powerful a Mk. 3 is, let alone anything bigger. I also use a lot of GW's Epic scale stuff - it looks a little odd, but the rules make for good, fast games. And there's something very satisfying about having Cruise Missiles toast them. In fact, I've considered running a con game (maybe when Gen-Con comes to Indy), where I'll teach the Ogre Minis rules, and people can bring -any- 1/300/285/6mm units: Warhammer 40K, Ogre, Micro-armor (Modern), Battletech - even the new-scale Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles minis can work. Unit cards are easy to prepare, and hand out multiple copies of. Get 'em all on the table, and start blasting. Noah nvdoyle@insightbb.com ===== [And with Da Formula you can even balance the forces somewhat. Here's an oddity I've been toying with. Small Hex GEV When playing with one inch long miniatures and one inch long hexes it's difficult to fit more than one miniature per hex. Here are my thoughts on playing on such a map. The stacking limit is one armor unit, OGRE or platoon of infantry per hex. Infantry that are riding on top of an armor unit do not count against this limit. All movement and firing ranges are doubled. For example, a LGEV can move up eight hexes in clear, fire four hexes away and then retreat eight more hexes along a road. Minimum movement remains at one actual hex though. Overruns occur when the phasing player moves one of his units adjacent to an enemy unit. At that point the defending player chooses one of his units (if the moving unit just moved adjacent to more than one defending unit) to defend against the overrun and the overrun is conducted as per the terrain in the hex of the defending unit. The defender then may add to the overrun any of his units that are adjacent to the defending hex and then the attacker may add to the overrun any units that can move to within one hex of the defending hex. (He may not move any units that are not part of the overrun until it is concluded.) After the overrun is concluded, chose one surviving unit to remain in the defending hex and then the other survivors are placed in adjacent empty hexes and the excess (beyond those with movement remaining to move two or more hexes away) are eliminated and then the phasing player continues with his remaining movement. When firing in ranged combat, all units in hexes adjacent to the defending hex suffer spillover effects, but terrain is only converted in the defending hex. Infantry dismount from their carriers by either being dropped in a hex or moving exactly one hex away from their carriers during movement. Infantry mount up on armor units in adjacent hexes only as the last action during their turn. (After GEV second movement.) -HJC] ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html