====== OGRE Digest, April 5th, 2003 (Last: March 29th) ======== ===== mines for hexes From: "Chris French" ===== Strategic Ogre From: "Chris French" ===== Mk VI cost From: David Morse ===== Re: OGRE/G.E,V question From: "Paul Chapman" ===== History of PanEuropean Missile Tanks From: David Morse ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: mines for hexes > From: David Morse > In Ogre Minis there are some rules for mines, and then Steve expounds on > them in "Ask the Ogre" at > http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/articles/askogre.html . But what's not done > is a conversion to ogre.hex. Umm, why not just assign minefields an Attack value, like everything else? > [Nope, unlike the Teamsters, you can always pull the plug. -HJC] Oh, you can pull the plug on a Teamster. Just ask Jimmy Hoffa. >:) In fact, I'd think it would be even harder to get rid of a rebellious AI -- it can copy itself (within limits), and find new and interest- ing ways to hide itself from its attackers (also within limits). ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Strategic Ogre > From: David Morse > IMO, in the Ogreverse AIs are too expensive, or else they would build > LGEVs with Ogre AIs. The "regular" armor and INF don't need full-blown AIs -- drone- quality intelligence (?) will suffice. (Worse, use an OGRE as a CP From Hell....) > I think the history of technology is /not/ one of exponential growth. > Its one of punctuated equilibrium. Look at the history of aviation. > 1900: hot air balloons. 1945: DC-3. 1983: 747 and space shuttle. > 2003: 747 and space shuttle. Aviation innovation ain't what it used to be. The current pause is a result of human inadequacies: 1) The typical Jabba-The-Butt American cannot withstand the Gs involved in a LA-to-Tokyo-in-1-hour flight. 2) Thanks to the Three Pillars Of The Nanny State (Health, Edu- cation, and Welfare), it is impossible to adequately fund and run a program that will build the equipment required -- the money is wasted on unproductive elements of society. (Money is to the nation as blood is to the body -- it is only effective when it cir- culates; if it stops, the corpus suffers.) 3) The great advances in technology have always been centered around one type of historical event: War. Moreover, the inten- sity of the war and the scale of the tech advance are in direct proportion (WW1 & WW2 saw huge, rapid spikes; Vietnam saw a slower, constant rise). So unless/until the Last War occurs, we'll not see any major advances in technology. > Also, I read that Madagascar is considering deploying combat forces to > the "Coalition of the bribed^H^H^Hwilling". Men? No. They're sending > a force of 1000 monkeys! [stifles comments that would most definitely be construed as horrifically racist; finally going with:] Good Lord, the Uplift War has begun. (No, I'm not a David Brin fan. :) ) > They're trained to defuse land mines. (I > don't want to know how they "defuse" them). Anyone for Rhesus Peanut Butter Cups? > So, what are the Ogre stats for minesweeping monkeys? So *that's* why INF are called "apes"! :) (_Starship Troopers_ even has a line about how MI look like "hydrocephalic gorillas" in it.) > It would probally work about as well as the Soviet anti-tank dogs, > especially as militia, which are the closest thing to monkeys in Ogre, are > ignored by mines. Dogs are used to sniff out explosives; they could track in on the boomstuff in a mine. (_ST_ also mentions canine units, altho' the dogs are a anti-GM protestor's worst nightmare.) > Show http://www.soviet-empire.com/arsenal/army/anti-tank/dog_mine.php > to all your PETA pals and dog lovers. > > Speaking of strange creatures on the battlefield, these are back in > stock: http://www.sjgames.com/miniatures/ogre/ogrethulhuset2/ -HJC] Darn it -- when are they going to publish the Godzilla and Ogre- thulhu rules!? CF ===== [I got your Godzilla right here: http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/articles/pyramid/godzilla.html 747s have improved in the past three decades. Their relative operating costs are much lower now. http://sq006.netfirms.com/history.html -HJC] ============================== From: David Morse Subject: Mk VI cost > The guy who performed the test basically reinvented the > Fuzzy-Wuzzy concept (a single unit of 2X strength is not worth > 2X points, as one hit kills it just as dead). Huh? Are you talking about MkIII+MkV vs MkVI? From a game mechanics standpoint, Ogres are more like stacks of independantly destructible armor units that have to travel together, than like a single unit. For that reason I think it is valid to do additive comparisons, but keep in mind there are some circumstances where it pays to split forces. If there's no stacking, then there's also a very marginal downside - can't concentrate firepower as well. But if there is no real downside to having two Ogres with half the components each. ===== [If you kill the treads on just one of those twin Ogres, you've taken its guns out of the fight. -HJC] ============================== [This is a ruling of Paul's in response to a question about the difference between destroyed and rubbled town hexes. For example was it possible to fire six two point attacks at a town hex and reduce it to rubble without cutting the road if you simply rolled a 1-3 each time? -HJC] ===== From: "Paul Chapman" Subject: Re: OGRE/G.E,V question To amplify: Town hexes can be thought of as having 3 states: 1) Town -- this is the standard "town" hex 2) Destroyed -- this is a Town hex after taking a single X result, with the resulting blocking of roads 3) Rubble -- this is a Town hex which has had 12 points of attack strength directed at it, and which includes the "Destroyed" state, but also changes the movement effects to the swamp-like effect mentioned in 8.03 So, for purposes of Raid, you either need to score a single X result, or direct 12 points of attack strength. Either will "destroy" the Town. [This has been an official message from Steve Jackson Games' Miniatures Division.] Paul Chapman http://www.sjgames.com/minis Miniatures Division Manager Steve Jackson Games paul@sjgames.com ============================== From: David Morse Subject: History of PanEuropean Missile Tanks I. The Ajax The history of the PanEuropean missile tank followed the tactical balance in the Last War. Prior to the war, and in the opening years, the chief fear was of the Ogre Mark III. Since PanEurope had no production Ogres of its own, its unit development was geared to stopping Combine Ogres. For this job the Ajax missile tank was ideally suited. (The Ajax is the standard missile tank of the Ogreverse). II. The Achillies The mission profile for the missile tank began to change. After the fall of Britian the task of stopping Combine Ogres increasingly fell to PanEurope's own Ogres. The Combine escalated the war by sending swarms of GEVs to devastate PanEuropean cities. PanEuropean forces, though generally plentiful, were always much slower and heavier than the Combine raiders, allowing the Combine to gain local superiority where it counted (see Breakthrough and Raid in GEV for typical examples). Under increasing pressure to defend its populance by the PanEuropean council, the PE military looked for fast ways to increase its GEV-stopping ability. What they came up with was a refit of their existing missile tanks, which they dubbed "the Achillies". Achillies missile tank 2/5 main attack D2 M2 In all other ways like a standard missile tank The Achillies made up 40% of PanEuropean missile tank production, with perhaps 20% of units retrofitted in the field. This conversion was compartively simple, and occassionally done in response to actual intelligence about enemy force makeup. III. The Aeneas The Combine eventually succumbed to PanEuropean numbers and was kicked off of Europe. Finally able to take the offensive, PanEurope took the battle to the jungles of South America, and for this they created yet another missile tank, designed specifically to help infantry take ground in forest. Aeneas missile tank 3/6 main attack 1/1 AP gun D2 M2 Moves as a heavy tank Cost 9 VP (1.5 armor units) The Aeneas was a completely new design, physically larger than its predecessors, and with a new fire control radar and incompatible missiles. Tactical doctrine called for the Aeneas to advance at speed, with its infantry screening it two hexes ahead. No enemy could take shots at the infantry and then avoid the missile attack. Most enemies could not attack the Aeneas without overrunning the infantry. The Aeneas served with distinction, almost completely supplanting the older missile tanks in front line units, until the battle of Mexico City. There they were decimated by the sudden appearance of an enemy they'd not been designed to handle: the Combine Ogre Mark IV. After that hard lesson some factories retooled to produce the cheaper Ajax and Achillies. By 2090 production was 50% Ajax, 30% Achillies, and 20% Aeneas. (this is a variant posted to my website, but I thought the historical mumbo-jumbo was interesting enough to forward to here) ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html