====== OGRE Digest, Aug 26th, 2003 (Last: Aug 18th) ======== ===== Making print quality maps From: "Mark S Haynes" From: reaper28i From: stephan ===== Flying Ogres From: "Chris French" ===== Bringing Back The Minis From: "McEwen the Mad" ===== Town and Structure Overruns From holmberg@thuntek.net Tue Aug 26 20:13:52 2003 ============================== From: "Mark S Haynes" Subject: Making print quality maps > Example map can be found at http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aleator/tst.png > (Note that the topmost row of hexes is redundant), and screenshot > of editing it is at http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aleator/editing.png > > Is there interest for such hack? Enough to warrant me to spend further > another week to improve it? Uh, yeah. Right here!!! Freeware, Shareware, Postcardware, OGREware, what are we talking here? I would love to have a decent map maker for my OGRE/G.E.V. games so I can start saving the custom maps I've made over the years (even lamination fails after a couple hundred OGREs have trod across countless times). ===== From: reaper28i Subject: Making print quality maps Hi Henry, Long time no type but here goes:- > From: Ville Tirronen > Is there interest for such hack? Enough to warrant me to spend further > another week to improve it? Yes Please! It sounds and looks good already! > From: Andrew Walters > Subject: Bringing Back The Minis LOL! Andrew, you are a star and a comedian. That reminds me, I must do some more "collecting" myself! (and painting too). Oh, and I suppose I should play the game some more. :) ===== From: stephan Subject: Making print quality maps > From: Ville Tirronen > I have made a small software that renders acceptable quality > high colour hexagonal maps. These are quite suitable for > playing gev on them. (among various other games) ... > Example map can be found at http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aleator/tst.png > (Note that the topmost row of hexes is redundant), and screenshot > of editing it is at http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aleator/editing.png That is beautiful! Does it work with emacs, too? ;) > Is there interest for such hack? Enough to warrant me to spend > further another week to improve it? i'd point you to screenshots of an app a buddy of mine is programming, called Loubetomy, but SourceForge has problems an our web site is offline. Maybe it'll be back on by the time you get this: http://qub.sourceforge.net/screenshots/ there are a couple shots named "loubetomy*.*" - check those out. ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Flying Ogres > From: stephan beal > LOL! i never made the connection that that was the same dude. His quote > has always stayed with me, though, and i mutter it to players when i > introduce them to the game. SJ mentions it somewhere in the Ogre book > and/or the web site... It's in the opening article of _The Ogre Book_ (either vol.). Of course, Costikyan also wrote an alternate-history story where the Soviet Union won the Cold War ("The West Is Red"), so I'm guessing a quote from Tom Servo of _Mystery Science Theatre 3000_ would be appropriate: "Smoke on the weirdo!" [_Manos: The Hands Of Fate_] :) > [For SHIELD search for Nick Fury on Google. Having done so, I can say only one word: "Pain." > As for the lasers, I always thought they were non-visible light. Doesn't matter -- they'd still reflect. > From: Andrew Walters > Subject: Bringing Back The Minis > > So I was trying to figure out how we could distract Steve Jackson so > he doesn't kill off Ogre by publishing it again in a couple of years, [...] I'll leave it to you geniuses to work out the rest. [Pinky] Gee, Brain -- is he being sarcastic? [/Pinky] > [I think I just failed a SAN check here, but isn't what's needed a rule > set that actually uses the minis and is less than a decade old? -HJC] No -- mainly what's needed is to keep the pack of cross-eyed nitwits that pass themselves off as playtesters and editors over at SJG as far away as possible from the OGRE manuscripts for as long as it takes some competent people to write a decent set of gridless rules; otherwise, we'll end up with _The OGRE Compend- ium_. (Ex-_Car Wars_ players know what I'm talking about.) It shouldn't be too hard -- just replace any reference to "hexes" with "measurement units" (or "MUs"), and indicate that a MU can be whatever agreed-upon value the players want. I hate to be quite so blunt about it, but the main reason most of SJG's "franchise" games are dying the death is the sheer blunder- ing incompetence of the SJG playtesting staff (who apparently have never read SJ's own remarks about playtesting, esp. the one about "playtesting the dumb strategies" -- the password is "Com ponent Armor"...) and the editors, who allow passage into the world of game manuals with rules for boats, but no rules on how to sink them. Why should gamers -- most of whom do not have unlimited cash reserves -- spend $20 - $40 on a game manual, then have to wait a year for all the bugs to be worked out? CF ============================== From: "McEwen the Mad" Subject: Bringing Back The Minis > From: Andrew Walters > > So I was trying to figure out how we could distract Steve Jackson so > he doesn't kill off Ogre by publishing it again in a couple of years, > and I was thinking we could get him into publishing role playing > games or collectible card games or something, and then it hit me... > > ... how to bring the Ogre minis back and make them so popular Steve > would get over his loathing of Ogre and just rake in the bucks: > > We make them collectible. I hear collectible minis are the future. I > mean, I thought I was collecting Ogre minis, what with keeping an > inventory, deciding how many of each I needed and slowly building my > ultimate set. No, apparently "collecting" means buying things > randomly packed on another continent and getting a bunch of things > you don't want. I should have looked it up in the dictionary instead > of assuming. Lazy me. > > Anyway, rumor has it the clicky-base is carefully guarded by a > frothing band of sunlight-fearing lawyers who will sue you sterile if > you so much as make a mini with a round base, but we could make the > bases *square*. When I was ten I had a tape recorder with a volume > control dial with numbers on the exposed edge, we could use that > mechanism. > > Of course, we'd need more than the dozen armor units we have now, but > that's no problem. Looking at discussions on the various Ogre lists > for the last six years, it looks like we have about nine hundred, > most of which Henry disagrees with the point value of. That includes > one, two and three squad bases of six hundred types of infantry. We > could make the regular ones common and the stupid ones really rare; > that way we can trade them to clueless youngster who will trade any > number of commons for a "rare" and build our sets quicker. > > Paul just ships the molds to some country without the emancipation > proclamation and the models come back with the gentle warp of a > comfortable tennis shoe. The painting is good these days, though. > Better than mine anyway. > > And we would no longer have to take time to paint! > > Each box can have a couple of infantry bases, a couple of armor > units, and a CP, structure, or Ogre. > > Then we just modify the rules so that it takes a savant to memorize > them and an idiot to want to play them (a blue *circle* on movement > means that it gets the road bonus over water, a blue *square* on > movement means it can only be attacked by Ogre missiles and Marines, > which have the blue *triangles* on range). > > I suppose the Ogres could have multiple dials, too. > > Anyway, my email program is showing me three chili peppers for > potentially offensive language in this email, so I better quit. I'll > leave it to you geniuses to work out the rest. > > Andrew > > ===== > > [I think I just failed a SAN check here, but isn't what's needed a rule > set that actually uses the minis and is less than a decade old? -HJC] Hey! Speaking as someone that plays Heroclix, Mechwarrior, and Mage Knight I felt a need to speak up (for some reason). I actually thought of using the Mechwarrior system for Ogre awhile ago. However, the big problem is that then it is not Ogre anymore. All the clicky games work because units loose power as they are damages, hence the combat dials. Ogre does not play that way. Maybe Inf and Ogres could be modeled that way, but a tank? It would lose most of the flavor. Now I could see mounting the minatures on some base listing all thier statistics. That would be a cross between minis and my old beloved counters. Some sort of combat dial could then be used for Infantry. However, it seems unlikely. Another option for colectablity is to make Nihon and Chinese (and then indvidual regiment) units. Randomly package them and there ya go. I must admit, prepainted is nice, as I lack talent and time. (Not a one of my OM is painted sadly.) Also, most Clicky games are not as hard as you think. I seem to recall that Panzer Blitz is at least two orders of magniture harder. :) Thanks, Duncan Ogre Fan Wizkids Envoy ============================== From holmberg@thuntek.net Tue Aug 26 20:13:52 2003 Subject: Town and Structure Overruns Fellow GEV Jockies: Recently had a session where an OGRE was attacking through a built up area. The area was entirely town, and I felt that the OGRE Miniatures rules were a bit confusing in the regards of town attacks and needed some tweeking. I have included a proposed clarification to the rules and would like your opinions. Please note: I'm not sure if the statistical averages are correct. I just calculated what I figured as the middle value, and rounded up. Thanks ahead of time. Eric >>>>>>> Town and Structure Overruns Any unit within range of a town or structure may fire upon it doubling its attack strength. A total of at least 12 attack points is needed to turn a town to rubble. Structures have strength as listed in OGRE Miniatures or as developed in the scenario. Upon moving within 1 inch of a town or structure, overrun occurs. If an overrun occurs, the total attack strength is doubled again or actually quadrupled. Antipersonnel weapons may not be used against a town or structure. The following is the attack strength of vehicles that may destroy town sections or structures while moving through them ("ramming"). Vehicle UnitRamming DamageAverage (?) Mark 1, Hvy Tank, other hovercraft1d6 -- Mark 2, Super Hvy Tank, GEV2d67 Mark 3, 3b, Ninja3d611 Mark 4, 5, Fencer5d618 Mark 6, Dopplesoldner7d625 The GEV or any other hovercraft are destroyed upon ramming towns or structures. Any Heavy Tank, Super Heavy Tank or OGRE loses 5 tread points per ramming attack on a town or structure. Heavy Tanks have 15 nominal tread points, while Super Heavy Tanks have 30 nominal tread points. (New) The vehicle must stop movement if it does not destroy the town or the structure while ramming. It must make a second overrun and ramming attack. If after the second attack, the town or structure is not destroyed, the attacking vehicle must move as if the terrain was rubble. Any subsequent vehicle moving into the attacked town or structure after the first attack must treat the terrain as rubble. ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html