====== OGRE Digest, Feburary 1st, 2003 (Last: January 26th) ======== ===== Is luck too important in Ogre? From: David Morse From: "Chris French" ===== Carrier games From: Servitor@aol.com ===== The new Ogre book From: Servitor@aol.com From: stephan beal ===== Re: Camouflage in OGRE From: reaper28i ===== Re: Ogre sizes? From: reaper28i ============================== From: David Morse Subject: Is luck too important in Ogre? > From: "Peter Lomax" > Luck is absolutely fundamental. > Bad luck exposes tactical flaws and good luck favours the brave. > A dice throw can change a game, forcing radical thinking and cause strategic > shifts of emphasis. > I think a good commander is the one who responds better to bad rolls. > In war things never, ever go to the original plan - rescuing the situation > from dice induced SNAFU is a great way to improve. All that is true, but that assumes its possible for a come-back to exist. If I have GEVs and all you've got left are infantry, the game is over. I must admit I've not gotten around to testing the playing card scheme, but I have had success offering a "reroll turn" to people who have phenomenally bad luck: after they totally miss, or I totally hit, and the game is clearly over, we put the board back to its pre-fire phase state and roll again. Often this will salvage the game, and both sides end up having a shot. ===== From: "Chris French" Subject: Is luck too important in Ogre? > From: "Peter Lomax" > I think a good commander is the one who responds better to bad rolls. Depends on whether or not the "bad roll" can be responded to. For instance, in the "Raid" scenario, if most or all of one's rein- forcements are MSL units, the defender is going to get stomped like a narc at a biker rally, no matter what (short of the attacker suddenly becoming deaf, dumb and blind). Or if (as has happen- ed to me more than once) an OGRE's missiles roll more than their fair share of 1s. Or (to pull in a totally different game) if one has a girlfriend who invariably rolls head shots in games of _Battletech_. Simply put, often the only way to respond to bad die rolls in a game is in the same way as real life -- surrender and pray your opponent isn't a gloater. (BTW: I've played _SFB_, too -- and don't think for a moment that the dice aren't all-powerful there, too.) > [Then read http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/2001/gevoct31.txt for a > halloween treat. -HJC] Will do. > From: paulgrogan@btopenworld.com > Subject: Fencer costs > > For us players of original OGRE/GEV, not the miniatures version, is there > an official armour point value for the Fencer and Fencer-B. The original > Fencer was 24 armour units, so I'm not sure what the new variants are > worth. The conversion is: 6 pts. == 1 "armor unit". _OGRE Miniatures_ gives a point cost for the Fencer of 140, so between 23 and 24 armor units. (23&1/3, to be exact.) > From: paulgrogan@btopenworld.com > Comments anyone? Mine's even simpler: Infantry may not mount and dismount in the same turn (one turn in this case meaning each side getting its 1st move, fire, and 2nd move). So an INF cannot simply hop onto a nearby GEV-PC, ride up to the OGRE, and then hop off into the bushes. > > Just out of interest, my other house rule is that crossing a stream is 1MP, > rather than the having to wait a turn. Slightly alters some scenarios but > plays a lot better IMHO. Interesting idea, but which units does it apply to? Myself, I want to know why it is that armor units which are sealed up against NBC strikes can't simply drive across the bottoms of rivers. Close the vents, hit "recirc" on the HVAC, and pray the marine INF are elsewhere. :) > > Finally, a question. Since putting the SHVY up to D5, has anyone else > found that it is a bit too tough? Well, the old SHVY could be easily whacked by three HVYs (At. 12 v. De. 4 == 3:1) whereas the SHVY had only a 50% shot at killing a HVY (At. 6 v. De. 3 == 2:1), and 12 INF v. 1 SHVY did not bear thinking about. Now the SHVY needs four HVYs to kill it (At. 16 v. De 5 == 3:1), and the AP guns make INF overruns a Bad Idea [TM]. The new SHVY better represents the crossover from Tank to OGRE. > From: "Dominique Sumner" > Subject: NAC Army info > - Reconnaissance Scout > - Ranger Umm, these would seem oriented towards _Battlesuit_ -- the Recon Scout being an INF with beaucoup Recon Drones, and the Ranger being a Ranger Suit. Not sure where these would fit into basic _OGRE_. > c) Anti- Ballistic/ Aerospace Defense Missile Systems > d) Man Portable Aerospace Defense Systems (MANPADS) Umm -- no airplanes.... > - Dismounted Cavalry Scout !? Where in _OGRE_ do these guys show up? (during the process a small explosive device is implanted as a > failsafe measure in case the subject reverts back to his prior activities). Gah -- sounds like my old _Car Wars_ group. (In the 6 years I was there, maybe 100 people died from bomb-in-brain disease.) > MOUT (urban combat) - Ft. Polk, LA; Ft. Benning, GA, Ft. Knox, KY Do you know what the acronym "MOUT" means? I haven't been able to find a definition. CF ============================== From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: Carrier games > Umm, what size class is this *&^%$#@! thing? > > > Notes: *SMB (Super Main Battery). > > Basically, a HWZ strapped into a MB barbette? > > > And if anyone has an old collection of T-Rex miniatures, you know exactly > > where I got the idea from for this beast... > > I've never even heard of this game. Explain? Whoops! Size class 9 Concerning SMB, yes, essentially T-Rex was a rather short-lived company (during the early to mid-eighties) that produced a small line of miniatures for Space Opera (like Traveller, only not as good). The minature I based my unit off of is a monstorous thing (which puts even 2 pound paperweights to shame) which does, indeed, have a huge interior bay complete with a group of six tanks. Some day I will take pictures of it and put them up on my site. Speaking of which... -My site has been updated!!! Really! I'm serious, I FINALLY updated my Ogre site. Go to: http://hometown.aol.com/servitor/Ogreindex/ogrindex.htm There's a new OGRE/G.E.V. map, new letters, new pics of macrotures and new play dates for OGRE Macrotures. Please note that AOL Hometown is a bit twitchy, so you might get a "Can't find this page" type error. Just hit your reload button and that should take care of it. best, John Hurtt (Servitor@aol.com) -Yes, I'm a Game Geek. How did you know? -Please visit my website at: http://hometown.aol.com/Servitor/Ogreindex/ogrindex.htm "Walk softly and carry a big stick" Personally, I prefer a taser. Lots more fun... ============================== From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: The new Ogre book > Just out of interest, my other house rule is that crossing a stream is 1MP, > rather than the having to wait a turn. If you mean an "extra" MP (in addition to the MP for entering the hex) then I really like this idea! This means that a GEV that starts three hexes from a stream (counting the hex it is in) will have to pay the exact same cost to cross as a GEV that starts one or two hexes away. A question: If a GEV reaches a stream hex-side with only one MP left on its first phase of movement, does that mean it can pay that MP, then actually move across the stream on the first MP of its 2nd phase? And what do you believe should happen when a GEV reaches a stream with only one MP left on its last movement phase? Thanks, John Hurtt (Servitor@aol.com) -Yes, I'm a Game Geek. How did you know? -Please visit my website at: http://hometown.aol.com/Servitor/Ogreindex/ogrindex.htm "Walk softly and carry a big stick" Personally, I prefer a taser. Lots more fun... ===== [The minimum movement rule clearly only counts for the first hex of movement for the turn, so a hovetruck probally cound't cross a stream to enter a town hex on its second movement phase. -HJC] ===== From: stephan beal Subject: The new Ogre book > From: paulgrogan@btopenworld.com > ... > Infantry can only get on a vehicle at the end of their turn, but can get > off at any time. They cannot move on their own on the turn they get off. > > Nice and simple, and closes the loophole. > > Comments anyone? i like it. :) It's easy enough to explain to a newbie without having to go into too much detail. > Finally, a question. Since putting the SHVY up to D5, has anyone else > found that it is a bit too tough? i agree, but i also agree that D4 is too weak for it's cost (i avoided SHVYs until the D5 change). i wouldn't quite say it's worth 3 armor units, either, though. Altering it's ATT or MP to balance it out would break it worse, i think. This highlights a weakness in ratio-based combat systems: there are no small increments. -- ----- stephan stephan@einsurance.de - http://www.einsurance.de i need a woman who can say, 'honey, can you please take a look at this stack trace while I order the pizza?' and really mean it. ============================== From: reaper28i Subject: Re: Camouflage in OGRE Hi Henry, What I am referring to here is visual camouflage, i.e. what colours should I paint my miniatures? I have almost finished my OGRE Mk.III - the rear is a kind of dark desert camo, the front half is a kind of jungle camo and the tower has tones of blue on it (so that it camouflages the "periscope" when the OGRE is underwater). This OGRE was in the (bad) Boy Scouts! - prepared for any theatre of ops. :) No doubt this may seem unusual to some people, but from the pictures I've seen on various websites the idea in my opinion is paint the mini in whatever colours work for you at the time. However, if you have more than one of a certain type then paint them up the same so that they belong to the same unit as it were. I guess I'm rambling a bit, but to finish here's my theory about camo schemes in OGRE. With so many electronic eyes and ears swamping the battle field the actual paint scheme of the vehicle is rendered somewhat irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the Mk.1 Eyeball cannot see it, other, more cold-blooded sensors will find your target (or threat!) No doubt this may well be old ground, but what is your take on these ideas? Regards, Mark. ===== [Optical jamming has been a part of the Ogreverse for a long time, even if overlooked in GURPS OGRE. The Ogre could display its parade colors one moment then just blend into the terrain the next so there isn't any reason you couldn't paint the mini anyway you like. Just decide if the Ogre is in its parade colors (and if so find a military unit to steal the look of) or paint it to closely resemble typical terrain. -HJC] ============================== From: reaper28i Subject: Re: Ogre sizes? Hi Henry, Just been browsing ebay for OGRE stuff and this comment raised a laugh. Someone was selling the GURPS OGRE book and had written some of the paragraphs from the back cover of the book to use as the sales pitch, here's the one:- "More than 2.5 yards long and bristling with high-tech weaponry, the Ogres are the last word in killing machines. They storm across battlefields, terrorizing friend and foe alike. And worse, some are more than mere machines - some are aware... " LOL! 2.5 yards long! Better watch that one it'll have your ankle off! Regards, Mark. ===== [Well, that is bigger than you. -HJC] ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html