====== OGRE Digest, Feburary 18th, 2003 (Last: February 13th) ======== ===== Diceland Ogre! From: "Henry Cobb" ===== Valentine's Day at OgreWerks From: "Herb Diehr" ===== Fencer points, streams and D5 SHVY From: stephan beal ===== D5 SHVY From: "Brian Bell" ===== super heavies From: "Louis Wardlaw IV" ===== Missile Racks in Overrun? From: Sethkimmel@aol.com ============================== From: "Henry Cobb" Subject: Diceland Ogre! Yes, the first new Ogre game in a decade. Get the details from Evil Stevie at: http://www.sjgames.com/ill/ ============================== From: "Herb Diehr" Subject: Valentine's Day at OgreWerks This is a multi-part message in MIME format. In an attempt at timeliness, here's a thought (for those of you not too clear on the idea, much of this is JFF). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Valentine Ogre Mk IV Secondaries 3/2 0 0 Nuclear Mortar Total/12 0 0 Missiles 6/5 0 0 AP 1/1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Internal Carrying Capacity Three squads and three cargo spaces may be carried. These are usually filled by Engineers and mines. One space is enough to mine one hex. Or, carry one mortar shell. These could be loaded into the Ogre mortar (by taking them outside where the Ogre can get to them), or to use a strategic nuke mine in one hex (use Shockwave rules for nuke effect, adding one to all armor present (SHY now is a SIX!) Same hex is always total destruction. Nuke mines may be command-detonated by any Engineer (or Valentine) four hexes or less; only the Ogre would set it off while friendly units or friendly buildings are in the same hex. Cost of Nuclear Mortar shells is 6.5 AU or 40 points each. Those fired by the Ogre may be shot down as any other non-evasive missile. Those layed as mines may be cleared as any other mine. Nuke mines may not be secretly placed (these are, after all, not Romulans!) The Valentine Ogre is able to sit under water for days. If those in cargo are using Marine suits, they may move some of the cargo into the water. A nuke mine in water adds two, not one, to each unit defense! SHY are now 7!! Same-hex is still automatic. Additionally, each city hex adjacent to any water has a defense of zero, unmodifiable. Water attacks are much more dangerous. Mark IV Valentine Combat Engineer Ogre cost is 120 points or 20 AU. This does not include ANY nuclear mortar shells nor any cargo nor crew. One rather interesting idea to try is carrying a cargo of all Ogre Missiles at normal cost; have a Mark V with it and keep your distance for a time...! Any ground unit may open the cargo bay (with permission!) from the same hex and unload the cargo. A Mk V could do this... Or, get one squad. Or, take all nuke mortars and fire around the edges of the defenders. Another variant is to allow the Valentine Ogre to lay mines on it's own, through a special door on the bottom. This option would cost 12 points or 2 AU extra. Allowing the nuclear mortar to fire it's shell and have it be a mine instead of exploding would also cost 12 points or 2 AU extra. Anyone want a ride on the first self-escorting Ogre mine -layer? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On the Mark I and Mark II issues, here is my 2 EU: First off, the SHY clearly seems to have improved over time. It started as a defense of three on each side, two attacks needed to kill (a D or DD would disable both); then, defense four, both take result of any damage; finally, defense five, I'm not quite sure WHAT hurts it! No reason to believe the Marks I and II couldn't be the same; Mark I production starte at defense three for the main gun, then moved to four, then finally to five. The cost was unchanged due to improved production techniques, or other quasi-economic gaming nonsense. The Mark II began life with defense three main, migrated to four and stayed, as the frrame was too heavy and unbalenced with more, or other quasi-engineering gaming nonsense. Again, the cost was unchanged. This should help our poor little friends, who really have been abused over the years. After all, much of the war was fought by them, especially out in the less advanced (most of the world) areas! Also, I believe the Mark I data was sent to the Combine Lunar colony, but results were unseen as satellite transmissions were ended all over shortly there-after. Also, the colony (and it's main target) were both on the far side of Luna Free State. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On the accuracy of the Future-History... Heinlein does not work for SJ Games. The likelihood of such an economically-devastating war in modern times seems far too unlikely! Shorten the real ciity-killing portion to five years at the end and a brief time at the beginning, with lots of anxious waiting, terrorism, preparation and espionage, economic revampment and political consolidation going on and you may have something much closer. I see a nice, big war with China from 2023-2025, followed by an EU crumbling and unsure until Paris is nuked by terrorists from the Combine (?) My crystal ball fails me after that bunch of joy. However, Steve never claimed he was writing history; just a quick, easy and bloody game. That he did very well, as all here are a testement. Happy Valentine's Day (Massacre), Steve! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- House rules for carrying infantry GEV-PC is not limited in use, due to special design. Armor is allowed one squad aboard. Mount only at end of movement, no fire for either unit due to loading. No restrictions unloading. Trucks, rail (unless GEV-PC designed and expensed), etc., one squad out per movement point spent by the vehicle in place. Squad may remove one item with it. Any vehicle may dump infantry into an over-run or close combat if it is in the same hex; however, note unloading restrictions. Also, all but the GEV-PC is dropping troops at a disadvantage. The mutual attacks are no longer simultaneous, but rather the squads from armor or trucks is attacked first, then the survivors return fire. Of course, dismounting units are destroyed in a D, DD or X against the carrier (except GEV-PC) during their off-loading. Light tanks, light GEV's and any other light vehicle is unable to carry infantry, due to their size (exception: Light GEV-PC may carry one squad) Heavy weapons may not be fired by mounted infantry at all, nor during over- runs nor close combat. Militia may only be transported by train or truck. All militia is the same size: one platoon. However, it fights as a single unit with the effect of 1/1. Militia may not move by foot and may not stack with other militia (due to training). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Militia House Rules Militia fighting in the same hex is close combat; militia fire first against any one unit moving in (ambush, mines, tricks, booby-traps, etc.) If another unit moves in during the close combat (run as over-runs), it may fire first at it or fire simultaneously as in normal over-runs. Militia are destroyed on DD or X, but ignore D results. Militia are trated in all other ways as infantry (HW militia and Engineer militia cost double (still,half the normal HW or Engineers). Militia is defined as any infantry unit not wearing powered armor. Thanks for reading and have a happy St. Valentine's Day destroying card board. Herb Diehr The Dire Wolf ============================= From: stephan beal Subject: Fencer points, streams and D5 SHVY > From: "Chris French" > On that basis, the Mk. 1 is worth a mere 14 VP, even with all the > "OGRE bonuses". By comparison a SHVY is worth just under > 12 (11.85, I think). So either the ability to be shot apart one piece > at a time is a damned sight more valuable than the rest of the > OGRE combined, or the Mk. 1 is severely overvalued. I'm in- > clined to believe that second one. Just for reference, i believe the official trade-in value for a Mk I is 5 armor. (This is per Shockwave or the Reinforcements pack - i forget which.) > > From: David Morse > > Subject: D5 SHVY > > So the Formula doesn't really work for units beyond the basic > _OGRE_ game -- according to it, the SHVY is overvalued a bit > at 12 points. That,or, as I suggested earlier, certain OGREs are > badly overvalued. To be fair, we must keep in mind that SJ never intended, AFAIK, to assign a formula for Ogres. The published point values come from years of playtesting. Overall i find the point value for the Mk III to be spot on, but other Ogres have seen less combat than the Mk3, and their points are up for debate. > I think the only way to rectify this is to devalue the "light" > OGREs (the 1 and 2). I'd say the Mk. 1 is only worth 1.5 armor > units, and the 2 is worth maybe 5 AU. 1.5! Eeek! That's less than the SHVY! How about 3? > BTW: Is anyone interested in a scenario with the *really* low- > ball units? I finally have a backstory to justify it. :) Spit it out, man! :) > From: Sethkimmel@aol.com > Subject: That Paneuropean feeling ... > take on a Combine-Pan Euro split. As an example I've went from an > internationalist who despised Buchanan-isolationists, to a RABID Euro-hater > who wants the US out of NATO and the UN; Don't worry - they'll get kicked out, or will leave, soon enough. ----- stephan "Drop Bush, not bombs." --- one demonstator's placard ============================== From: "Brian Bell" Subject: D5 SHVY I certanly loved the Mk I and Mk II when SHvy was only D4. There are _lots_ of reasons to have them in a battle. The fluff suggests that the Mk I was the only one capible of being deployed by air. The others had to be transported by ship. I remember playing a number of games where the Combine was attacking a large group of PanEuropean territory. It used 4 GEV and Shockwave maps. The main Combine force attacked from the south while groups of GEVs and Ogre Mk Is were airdopped north of the maps and came in that way. Over the weekend, I will try to find the old scenario and post it to the list. :-) -Bri ============================== From: "Louis Wardlaw IV" Subject: super heavies I do not think the super heavy is over the top in Ogre. It is a big, nice target for any mobile howitzer in the opposing force. Actually if you do not have the proper screening force for them in a strait up tank battle, then they tend to suffer badly. D5 is good but by no means invincible, simply combine fire with nearby infantry or light tanks to get the 1:1 odds. The real advantage of the Super heavy is its ablity to move like an ogre, except for entering water, and its weapons. It is fun to run over a line of light tanks when you get the chance though. ============================== From: Sethkimmel@aol.com Subject: Missile Racks in Overrun? > Do they fire missiles in *each* overrun fire round? They could empty > their magazines in a single turn! hmmn....makes the MkVI with 2 racks and 20 birds look a little better. Imagine taking one into an overrun...yuck.... ===== [What makes you think those racks are going to be around for fire phase two? -HJC] ============================= Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html