====== OGRE Digest, Feburary 22nd, 2003 (Last: February 18th) ======== ===== super heavies From: stephan beal ===== Mark One cost From: David Morse ===== Ogre Book Errors From: "Chris French" ===== Valentine's Day at OgreWerks From: "Chris French" ============================== From: stephan beal Subject: super heavies > odds. The real advantage of the Super heavy is its ablity to move like an > ogre, except for entering water, and its weapons. It is fun to run over a > line of light tanks when you get the chance though. Where is the exception "except for entering water" noted? It's not in the tabletop rules, AFAIK. In Shockwave (or is it the Reinforcements Pack?) it simply says, "... moves as an Ogre," which i must assume means that it may travel under water. Or is this one of those minis/tabletop differences? ----- stephan ===== [IIRC Deluxe GEV said no water for thirsty superheavies, but this was fixed in the errata at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/errata/deluxe-gev.html Also there is a new review of the Mark IV mini on the web, see the Ogre News at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/ (I wounder if I should ask for reprint permission for Ogre News and Daily Illuminator to fluf things up here.) -HJC] ============================== From: David Morse Subject: Mark One cost >>From: "Chris French" >>On that basis, the Mk. 1 is worth a mere 14 VP, even with all the >>"OGRE bonuses". By comparison a SHVY is worth just under >>12 (11.85, I think). So either the ability to be shot apart one piece >>at a time is a damned sight more valuable than the rest of the >>OGRE combined, or the Mk. 1 is severely overvalued. I'm in- >>clined to believe that second one. >> >> While certainly the published value of the Mk I is debatable, I think this is largely futile, as Ogre is not a game system with balanced vp costs for units. (cough marines cough). ===== [Yeah. One squad of marines can chop a Mark VI into shark bait so they should cost way more than just 4 VPs. -HJC] ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Ogre Book Errors > [Yeah, I've been harping on this for a bit. > > http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/2002/gevmay16.txt > > I suppose I'd best re-proof the Ogre Book and find enough errors in my > first pass to make it worthwhile to put up an errata page for it. -HJC] Well, get on with it, then! :) CF ===== [I suppose having a little help wouldn't hurt. Can everybody else take a look through the new Ogre Book and mail me anything they find wrong? -HJC] ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Valentine's Day at OgreWerks > From: "Herb Diehr" > Anyone want a ride on the first self-escorting Ogre mine -layer? Umm -- no. > finally, defense five, I'm not > quite sure WHAT hurts it! Four HVY. > No reason to believe the Marks I and II couldn't be the same; Mark I > production started at defense three for the main gun, then moved to four, > then finally to five. OK, whoa. When the *&^%$#@! did OGRE battery Defense values change? Everything I own says that a MB is the same regard- less of the OGRE (At. 4; Rn. 3; De. 4); same for SBs, missiles, and everything else. Only the complement changes. > Heinlein does not work for SJ Games. The likelihood of such an > economically-devastating war in modern times seems far too unlikely! Yes -- it's worth noting that the reason India backed off of Paki- stan was that the corporation in India made it clear that a war would result in what little economy the country has going away. _Rollerball_, anyone? > From: stephan beal > Subject: Fencer points, streams and D5 SHVY > Just for reference, i believe the official trade-in value for a Mk I is 5 > armor. (This is per Shockwave or the Reinforcements pack - i forget which.) One, I was referring to Mr. Cobb's formula, not the texts you refer to. Two, the texts you refer to specifically state that those values are deliberately set so that if one side has OGREs and the other doesn't, the OGRE-equipped side will win. > 1.5! Eeek! That's less than the SHVY! How about 3? Since two SHVY will stomp a Mk. I in a stand-up fight, I'd say 1.5 is about right. The problem here is, unless the defender is forced to use mixed infantry and armor, the OGRE AP guns are useless. This means the Mk. I has only one antiarmor gun, and the II has three. Worse, the I can never achieve better than 1-2 odds vs. a SHVY, while the II is hard pressed to achieve 2-1 odds.... > Spit it out, man! :) OK, I'll include it with my next set of comments. > Don't worry - they'll get kicked out, or will leave, soon enough. At which point we'll see what WW1 would have been like if the Euros had been able to use nukes.... > From: "Brian Bell" > Subject: D5 SHVY > I remember playing a number of games where the Combine was > attacking a large group of PanEuropean territory. It used > 4 GEV and Shockwave maps. The main Combine force attacked > from the south while groups of GEVs and Ogre Mk Is were > airdopped north of the maps and came in that way. Also according to the flavor text, any airplane that so much as points its nose toward a battlefield gets its ticket punched by ground-based Laser Towers; so any points spent on "airborne" equipment are lost before the game even starts.... :P (BTW: When Mike Garrity, of NOVA, built the "OGRE Mk. I" for _Car Wars_, he used _CW Tanks_'s Laminate armor, which is best know for being essentially laserproof. And BPC is *more advanced* than Laminate armor -- so why are Lasers such a big f***in' deal!?) > From: Sethkimmel@aol.com > Subject: Missile Racks in Overrun? > hmmn....makes the MkVI with 2 racks and 20 birds look a little better. > Imagine taking one into an overrun...yuck.... What idiot overruns an OGRE? CF ===== [When I costed out the Mark One, I did so on the basis of the GEV rules where the Mark I has TWO anti-armor weapons. One blasts the armor into mulch and the other crushes them like cans for the recycling bin. If the Superheavy was simply treated as a big Heavy rather than a small Ogre for ramming it would balance out. The current Superheavy with the super ram is probally around three armor units as it can destroy three heavy tanks in its first overrun fire phase. -HJC] ============================= Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html