====== OGRE Digest, Jun 2nd, 2003 (Last: May 24th) ======== ===== Re: OGRE/G.E,V question From: Steve Jackson ===== more dumb ammo ideas From: "Chris French" ===== Digging In From: "Chris French" ============================== From: Steve Jackson Subject: Re: OGRE/G.E,V question I'm sorry this answer took so long! The first time I checked, all I could think was "Okay, what was I thinking?" So I waited a while and returned to it. Now I know what I was thinking, but it's darned unclear and should be changed . . . thank you for raising the issue. 8.03 is talking about destroying town hexes for victory points. This is relatively easy and does not turn the whole area into rubble . . . it just renders the area unusable for homes or work, and cuts the roads and railroads. 8:06 is talking about turning the whole hex into a sea of broken bricks, smoking pits, and splinters. This is far past the "destroyed" of 8.03. There really should be cross-references, and possibly revised terminology and a common mechanic, to make sure that a hex is "destroyed" for victory points before it becomes "rubble" for terrain effects. Next edition, I'll look into that. And I'm copying this to Henry Cobb for his mailing list. Thanks again. At 2:23 PM -0500 4/2/03, tabril@dstina.com wrote: >Mr Jackson or to whom this may concern: > >I just have a question regarding a point of rule as listed in the >OGRE/G.E.V rules. >Under rule G.E.V 8.03 Destruction of town hexes - it states: >"Each town hex has a defense strength of 1. It is unaffected (for purposes >of the game, that is!) by any result except an 'X'. Spillover fire into a >town hex has full, rather than half, effect on the town. If a town hex is >demolished by an 'X' result, its effects on movement and defensive strength >are unchanged, except that roads and railroads no longer lead through the >hex (they are blocked by rubble)." > >This seems pretty straight forward to me - that if a unit in a town is >struck and the spillover fire results in an 'X' then the town is destroyed >or if the town is targeted and receives an 'X' result it is destroyed. > >However... > >Under rule G.E.V 8.06 Turning town and forest hexes to rubble - it states: >"Players may make up "rubble" markers [they are provided in another >supplement] to place on completely destroyed town and forest hexes. A town >or forest is turned to rubble after any attack or combination of attacks >totally 12 attack strength points has been directed against the hex or >units in the hex. All units treat rubble exactly as though it is swamp >except Ogres." > >This to me seems a contradiction - or at least creates some big confusion. >How is the destruction of a town in 8.03 different from 8.06? >I never noticed this before but I was playing last night, against a new >opponent, at the local hobby store and we were playing the Raid scenario >and he stated that in order to destroy the towns I had to use rule 8.06 but >I had always used rule 8.03. > >We flipped a coin and we went with his interpretation (incidentally I lost) >but as I pondered about it afterward it struck me that there seems to be a >big contradiction here and I figured I would ask you what is the ruling. >I am a huge Ogre fan - but I don't get to play G.E.V that often - any help >would be great. > >Can someone help me out? > >Thanks > >Todd Abril >33 Federal Street >Walpole MA 02081 -- Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ===== [Thanks, now if only the Ogre Minis rules could be brought into agreement. (If you're finding the defense in RAID difficult, try using the rule from OM49 where any group of less than 6 GEVs CANNOT destroy a city hex.) -HJC] ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: more dumb ammo ideas > From: David Morse > Note that "Shock"ing weapons are weaker than their regular counterparts > against non-gevs, so there is no VP cost associated with the conversion. Hey, for 12 VP, just put a Real Nuke warhead on a missile --two of them will automatically kill every hover within an 11-hex-wide-by- roughly-4-hex-deep area. A track-laying force will not be as easily annihilated. (For those interested in the math, place an OGRE on 0819 on the Basic map, then fire one missile each into hexes 0518 and 1118, and determine the effects of a CM strike accordingly.) ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Digging In > From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com > No, a powered suit will appear first in industrial uses. And thus the > ability to dig, move large objects, and assemble things will be available > to them. And the current US military is not a bunch of sluggards about > digging in... Digging is still a time-consuming process, unless one has a backhoe available. Hands are somewhat limited in the amount of dirt they can shift. (Oh, and suppose you're on hardpan....) > It is assumed that when the friendly unit was destroyed/bugged out, the > positions were damaged. In a nuclear war, you would want to be COMPLETLY > buried, and only pop up to fire or run. And you would likely have your > weapons on the surface while you are down below with comm lines operating > them. So, when you leave, you rip up the turf going... It's. A. Hole. Holes are notoriously difficult to damage, unless one is taking the time to fill said hole back in. (And even then, the dirt is easier to shift, having already been destabilized.) And covering one's self in loose earth is not going to help against a nuke strike -- the shockwave will cause the dirt to leave rather quickly (and likely take the person in the hole with it). The INF's best (not to mention only) hope is to find a small ridge, and get it between the INF and the blast. Anything else just gets the INF X'd. > From: stephan beal > Mini-nuke satchel charges: dig a little hole, drop it in, water it, feed > it and care for it for about... 10 seconds... and there you've got a > foxhole big enough for the whole squad. Hope they took their anti-rad drugs.... > [Another group has spoken out and suggested that a Heavy Tank should be > worth four squads of infantry. But I guess it doesn't really count, > because it's a brand new set of rules for playing OGRE in a whole new way. > > http://www.diceland.com/rules.html -HJC] When they get an Internet Service Provider that Provides Internet Service, I'll be willing to listen to them. Until then, their opinions don't count. (This after six attempts to access the site after midnight on a Saturday.) Actually, a lot of the debate over unit values could be alleviated if the rules about how INF and OGREs treat D results were disregard- ed, and the aforementioned units took D results the way "normal" units do. In INF's case, it would be as per standard rules (unit may not move or shoot, etc.); OGRE weapons would simply be unable to fire for a turn (as normal), while tracks would be "temporarily" de- stroyed (that is: An undamaged Mk. III takes 15 Attack pts. worth of D results to its tracks; in its next Movement phase, it would have only 2 MP. If it took no subsequent track damage, it would have 3 MP again in its next Movement phase; yes, it is possible for an OGRE to have its MP "temporarily" reduced to 0). The "ignoring D" rule makes some units far more effective than others. CF ===== [Would you be ready to accept Inf that DO NOT combine into platoons, so you can only put five squads in a hex, but you have to pick them off one by one? (The 3/1 counter is purely notational. You have to fire at the squads one at a time.) A 1/1,D1,M2 squad that does not suffer at all from D results has a DM of 2.25 so the cost is 1 * (2 +1 +4*1.5) + 2 * 1 * 2.25 * (2) = 9 + 9 or 1.5 VPs. If you give them M3 and eliminate their road bonus (they're flying, how is the road going to help them?) then the cost is close enough to 2 VPs. You'd need to give the Heavy Tanks a single AP gun each to remain balanced and Missile Tanks would still suck as much as usual. -HJC] ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html