====== OGRE Digest, Oct 9th, 2003 (Last: Sep 27th) ======== ===== Nazi Super Tank From: Sethkimmel@aol.com From: "Chris French" From: Steve Jackson ===== blitz From: David Morse From: "Chris French" ===== Ogre on WinDos 98 From: "Chris French" ===== Valley of Tears scenario From: "Chris French" ===== variant unit: Trebuchet Cybertank From: David Morse ============================== From: Sethkimmel@aol.com Subject: Nazi Super Tank > Really cool! > The Super Tank was in development by Nazi Germany! Truth stranger than > Fiction. I assumed you were talking about a MAUS (BIG tank w coaxial 128 and 75 mm main guns -- one was built at war's end?), until I saw the picture; looks like a hovertank! didn't know the krauts built one... ===== From: "Chris French" Subject: Nazi Super Tank I still need to find a reference on that WW2 "proto-OGRE" assault gun the US was working on.... CF ===== From: Steve Jackson Subject: Nazi Super Tank Hmm. ============================== From: David Morse Subject: blitz > From: "David & Robin" >>As I understand it, the battlefield is overrun with Recon Drones >>(not represented in _O_, but shown in _Battlesuit_), which allows >>each side to shoot over forests and whatnot with reasonable >>accuracy. So double-blind isn't an option for _O_. > > > Good point. This is also why Ogre has no LoS rules, indirect fire mortars > etc. Not to mention many of the shells are likely to be "smart rounds". > Given that 1 vehicle in a hex 1.5 kilometers across is fine enough > resolution for Ogre weapons and targetting systems, double bilnd might work > if the game were a standard GEV scenario played on a map the size of China! > ;-) I respectfully disagree on this recon drone theorey. How fast are these recon drones? Faster then GEVs? The drones in battlesuit certainly aren't. Since ammo is plentiful, why aren't they hunted down and killed by idle or out-of-range infantry? I don't know late 21st century battlefield technology any better than you, but it seems at least ~possible~ that units would be in the dark about enemy deployments some of the time. In Breakthrough/Raid, a defense commander would have control of the battlefield before the game, and have all kinds of time to scour it of enemy drones. And if he saw a new wave of recon drones coming onto the map, that would be a sure sign of imminent attack, and should start the clock ticking on reinforcements. We're still looking for a 2nd player for PBeM double blind, by the way. ===== From: "Chris French" Subject: blitz > From: "David & Robin" > One more reason GO is at best apocrypha not canonical at least at my > house. GO does not do a very good job of modelling Ogre. Try using _Car Wars_.... :) > One more word for you: Nukes. Even AP guns fire tac-nukes. Ogres make > their own streets. Look at pictures of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, still want > to argue that Ogres can't get through downtown? Actually, yes. Please forgive what will sound like a racist stereo- type, but Japanese cities were, in both the figurative and literal senses, made from tissue paper -- any massive fire would raze one to the ground. European cities are built from stone, and (as pointed out) have basements -- the OGRE hits the building, and either leaves a huge pile of debris, or drives into a hole; neither of which is conducive to keeping said OGRE moving. > Good point. This is also why Ogre has no LoS rules, indirect fire mortars > etc. Not to mention many of the shells are likely to be "smart rounds". > Given that 1 vehicle in a hex 1.5 kilometers across is fine enough > resolution for Ogre weapons and targetting systems, double bilnd might work > if the game were a standard GEV scenario played on a map the size of China! > ;-) Anyone up to hex-gridding *that* mapsheet? :) ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Ogre on WinDos 98 > From: "Mark S Haynes" > To answwer that question - YES!!! Origin's IBM PC OGRE game plays fine > from a 3.5" floppy on Windows 98SE. The files can be copied onto the hard > drive but the game still checks for the disk in the drive and wont play > without > it. OK. Now I just have to find a copy.... :P ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Valley of Tears scenario > From: Sethkimmel@aol.com > I turned it in too late for the Contest. Tell what you think.... > > The Valley of Tears > > Prologue: 03:00 hrs, June 22, 2086, Dimona Nuclear Weapons and Robotics=20 What's the "=20" in aid of? > Research Facility in the Negev Desert of Israel > > "It took the Nazi's almost three years to kill over a million and a half > Jews at Auschwitz; parties unknown were able to do the same at Tel Aviv in > a millisecond" Add comma here. > thought Dr. Joshua Krenstein, the senior AI research fellow > ashe "as he" > typed code onto a computer console. What he was doing was strictly > prohibited -- he was adding unauthorized code into the AI algorithm that > would be loaded in the CPU of the cybertank JDA-293. If he were caught he > would be shot, or worse, handed over to the Arabs, as he smiled inwardly. Those last four words don't really fit there. > > He truly believed that the Panuropeans were behind the Tel Aviv bombing > and perhaps the Cairo-Damascus ones as well. Why was anybody's guess, but > softening up the Mideast for a landgrab, seemed the best bet? ".", not "?". > Of course > when Germans, Russians and the French are suspected, it didn't have to be > for logical reasons; the chance to kill Jews for it's own sake was > enough. Dr. Krenstein only hoped this little friendly "sabotage" would > allow him some indirect revenge for this old atrocity. Am I sensing a note of annoyance with the charming folks who build and/or bankroll the Muslim nations of the Middle East? > > The idiots in the Rabbinate-military Huh? > junta that now ruled Israel wouldn't > allow sentient Golems, on grounds that it blasphemed against G-D, and > self-aware cybertanks would be uncontrollable. The fools, this would be the > only thing that would save Israel, especially know that the Combine stopped > aiding Israel, and even worse, was aiding the Arabs. The 'yanks' "Yanks". > were > hoping that the Arabs would use the aid against the Paneuro's, but they Umm, which "they" is this? > were also stepping up their incessant attritional attacks against Israel as > well. "There; ",", not ";". > that's it," he thought, as he shut down and prepared to go > home. Those idiots at MIT should have told Denver to go to hell when they > expelled him from the Combine, butno "but no" > practicing Jews would be allowed to > live in the Combine unless they converted to the state run Catholic or > Episcopalian churches. Continuity failure: Combine does not have an established national religion; Paneurope is the one with the heavy Papist influence. >"Oh-well; "Oh well --". > their loss, Israel's gain," he smiled > grimly. > > 04:00 hrs, October 6, 2086, the Golan Heights, Israel > > Major General. Delete "." > Ephraim Ben Zvi chomped on an unlit cigar and paced the > floor of the Battalion CP with a Delete "a". > barely concealed impatience. The Syrians > had been making noises again for the umpteenth time about retaking the > heights. "Heights". (Refers to a specific heights, not a general one.) > True, it had been over a hundred years since there had been a > shooting war in the valley, but this time he was VERY worried. There was > trouble in Lebanon again, and two of the three battalions of his Brigade, "brigade". > including his mechanized infantry battalion were up in the Bekaa Valley > staring down the Syrian and Lebanese forces there. Most of his third > battalion was down in Jordan watching the Saudis and the Jordanians. That's > why he was up front conferring with Col. Netanyahu about what the Syrians > were doing over on the East Side of the rocky plain that made up the Golan > Heights. It didn't help that he had just finished reading a history of the > Yom Kippur war. He was amazed at the sheer number of tanks that had fought > back then. The Syrians had attacked with 1500 tanks, and the Israelis > defended with 450. What a cruise missile would have done to that > concentration of armor if they were available back then. Still, he thought > with pride; ",", not ";". >we DID destroy over a thousand Syrian tanks, at the cost of two > armored brigades shattered (one, the 7th, being the ancestor of his > brigade). No wonder that this area was nicknamed the valley of > tears "Valley of Tears." . > > What worried him the most was that today, just like back in 1973, was the > eve of Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year. He was just as short handed "short-handed". > as his predecessors were. He was defending three widely separated fronts, > withhalf "with half". > of the forces that were here normally. He had just one company of > armor and that damn Golem to defend the heights, when he really needed at > least a battalion. He was also annoyed that he missed the Col. "Colonel". > who was up > at the front lines making sure his tanks were properly dug in. > > The computer screen next to him suddenly turned opaque from broad spectrum > jamming, and it announced "WARNING; ":", not ";". > many "Multiple". (Military folk don't use "many" in this context.) > cruise missiles inbound! Request > weapons free on the laser tower." He leaned over the comp tech and stabbed > the affirmative key on the pad. Next the air raid klaxon went off (funny it > wasstill "was still" > called that he, "that, he". > thought as he put on his helmet and started to > seal his battlesuit up). There was a g-dawful roar as the laser tower > started to fire again and again, and again > > The tower did very well; neither the battalion nor brigade CPs were hit, > and though the valley was now pockmarked with glowing craters, none of his > vehicles were hit. The tower ",". > however, was hit by the last cruise missile, > and was destroyed ". ". >The comp tech reached Colonel Netanyahu's command tank > through the hash of radio and Maser "maser". > jamming. Col. Netanyahu reported that > he could now see large plumes of smoke coming over the horizon, even though > it was still dark. That could only mean one thing; cybertanks. He then saw > them-my "good" would be a better choice here. > G-D there were FOUR of them, all ex-combine Mark II's, and there > were two companies of GEVs, a company of tanks, and a full battalion of > battlesuited infantry behind them. Col. Netanyahu knew he was a dead man ".". > > His command superheavy tank was the largest vehicle in this company, and > even though they were all dug-in in "dug into" instead of "dug-in in". > revetments, had a battery of artillery > in support, and had the approaches to the position mined; ",", not ";". > he knew that he > couldn't hold this position. The Syrians would pour over him, destroy the > Battalion and Brigade CPs and continue to the Jordan River. They could then > invade Israel proper, and cut off the Israeli forces in Lebanon. Maybe they > would finallydrive "finally drive" > us into the sea if the reserves don't get here in > timeCol. ". " > Netanyahu forgot one thing however ": " >There was a Golem back at the CP > and it was coming up fast He then heard an odd thing on the Comm > net. "Don't fall back! It's Judah the Maccabee! I'm coming to help you and > with the Lord's help, the Syrians willnot "will not" > defile the temple again!" > Col. Netanyahu thought that tin can "had" >popped its' cork, but any help was > welcome, as he launched some targeting drones, and downloaded targeting > data from the intelligent landmines in front of his position. > > Scenario notes: use the miniatures from Deluxe Ogre and Deluxe GEV. Use the > Ogre map. > > Israeli forces: > > One Golem cybertank (use the Mark III model) Why not the one listed in _OGRE Miniatures_? > One superheavy tank (use the Paneuro one) > Four combine heavy tanks > Four combine missile tanks > One combine howitzer > One paneuro howitzer > One paneuro mobile howitzer > Four armor points of revetments (use the Ogre Battlefields rules, and use > coins to represent them on the map). Any mix of large and/or small revetments is > OK > One combine CP > One paneuro CP > > Syrian forces > > Four mark II Ogres (use the paneuro light tanks to represent them) Why not the Mk IIs from _OGRE Miniatures_,or the _OGRE/GEV_ double-set? > Four paneuro missile tanks > Four paneuro heavy tanks > Six combine GEVs > Six paneuro GEVs > Six Paneuro light GEVs > 39 infantry squads (use all the infantry from both Deluxe Ogre and Deluxe > GEV) > > > Set up: > > The Israeli player places his/her forces anywhere in the obstructed part of > the map. He/she must place one of his/her CP's within ten hexes of the end of > the obstructed area (hexes ending with 07-16). Every hex ending in 17 is > considered to be mined (see optional Ogre rule 8.03). He/she may place his/her > revetments anywhere in the obstructed area and they may have armor units inthem "in them". Also, does this allow revetments to be placed in crater hexes? > at > the start of play. The Syrian player enters from the East Side "side". > of the map > (any hex ending in 22) on turn one. Israeli forces may escape from the WestSide "West side". > of the map, and Syrian forces may escape from the East Side (also note the > victory conditions for Syrian units that exit the West Side of the map). Units > exiting the map may not return to the map. > > Victory conditions: > > Four Ogres exit West Side of map: Overwhelming Syrian victory > Three Ogres exit West Side of map: major Syrian victory > Two Ogres exit West Side of map: Syrian victory > One Ogre exits West Side of map: minor Syrian victory > No Ogres exit map, but both CPs destroyed: minor Syrian victory > No Ogres exit map, but one CP destroyed: minor Israeli victory > No Ogres exit map, no CPs destroyed: Israeli victory > No Ogres exit map, no CPs destroyed, Golem survives: major Israeli victory > No Ogres exit map, no CPs destroyed, Golem survives, all Ogres destroyed: > Overwhelming Israeli victory Interesting idea. Nice work. ============================== From: David Morse Subject: variant unit: Trebuchet Cybertank Once PanEurope was cranking out Legionnaires and Huscarls for its front line cybertanks, attention turned towards the missile rack. The Paneuropeans had perfected the design before the Combine, and they sought to press this advantage. The most obvious result were the Fencer series, but the Trebuchet also began full scale production staring in late 2084. Unlike other cybertanks of the time, Trebuchets were designed from the ground-up to work in concert with Ogres. They had non-existant point defense, but a powerful missile-rack attack. In theorey, it would follow a friendly Ogre from behind at about 3 km range, protecting its flanks and rear. The Ogre would take most of the punishment, and use its secondaries and powerful ram to protect the Trebuchet. In practice, the ceasefire years seldom saw multiple friendly cybertanks operating on the same battlefield. Usually a newly assigned Ogre was immediately used to plug (or create) a hole. Such were the vargies of war. Given that reality, and the absolute need for a screen around the Trebuchet, it turned out that conventional armor or even infantry was substituted. This worked well enough that the Trebuchet countinued in production until 2089. Trebuchet Cybertank 60vp - 10 armor units - cheap! 3 missile racks D4 11 internal missiles (6/5) *0* other weapons! 15 treads total Movement starts at M3 Note: the Trebuchet is the same size as a Mark II, but is radically overloaded, thus the small number of "effective" treads. Note #2: the price given is via YACD. Henry's Ogrecalc gives it at 66vp, with a year of introduction somewhat after 2086 - no doubt because of the rediculous overloading. ===== [And who crunched any more math on it than simply saying "well Evil Stevie used these numbers to balance the scenarios in GEV so let's assume these are the build costs"? Sorry about the delay, my system crashed. If you sent any mail that didn't make it in then feel free to send it again. -HJC] ============================= Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html