====== OGRE Digest, Sep 6th, 2003 (Last: Sep 2nd) ======== ===== THE noise From: "Mark S Haynes" From: "Chris French" ===== Mines From: Daniel Gallant ===== Making print quality maps From: "Kirk Hunt" ============================== From: "Mark S Haynes" Subject: THE noise > From: David Morse > Anyone else here grow up playing Ogre against the computer AI on an > Apple ][e? I was just remembering the cool noise the computer made when > the Ogre Xed your armor. I think I'll start grunting that noise during > games, at least until someone throws a mini at my head. > > zeeeeewSSSSSSSSSsssh! > > [It was about the same on the C64. -HJC] Not sure about the Apple ][ e, but my C-64 version had a wicked nasty habit of "rolling" low when it came down to getting the treads. I lost more CPs because out of 30 attacks I would average 4-6 hits. I think the software was cheating and using the 1-2 CRT for Tread Attacks. Still, I play the IBM version on my DOS box at least 3 times a week... (this one "cheats" too) ===== [Cheat back, follow the Ogre with a heavy tank and see if it ever doubles back on you. -HJC] ===== From: "Chris French" Subject: THE noise I bought a copy, but the *&^%$#@! thing never worked. Now, of course, computer board gaming is deader than O.J. Simpson's film career. > I think I'll start grunting that noise during > games, at least until someone throws a mini at my head. I thought that was how _OGRE_ players who played OGREs normally communicated. :) :) :) :) :) > [It was about the same on the C64. -HJC] Oh, wonderful. So when my SO gets hers, I could play it on that (assuming any copies survive)? > [Since Emacs can invoke Peril scripts, everything works with Emacs with > enough duck tape elisp applied. (This mailing list is maintained in > Emacs.) -HJC] And it's still NO CARRIER > From: stephan > Subject: Making print quality maps > (i hope the name Loubetomy rings a bell, by the way.) Umm, it sounds like an obscene act.... > This is one of the drivers behind the CounterMoves group > (countermoves.sourceforge.net). Open-source boardgaming? Huh. And would "reality" include most of the people suffering invoca- tion of Uncle Sam's Suits of Random Transportation? (Comes in Olive Drab, White, Sky Blue, and Green. :) ) > From: David Morse > Subject: OM revision observation > Ogres are slightly better in the hex game because they don't slow until > their treads have taken more banging. For example, a Mark V in hex-land > doesn't slow down after taking 19 tread hits. A Mark V in analog-land > slows down after only 10. But only 1/2 as much. Remember that 1 MP in _OM_ is not equal to 1 MP in _O_. > [As a LGEV driving munchkin, I look at a powerful expensive target on a > narrow tread gage and shout Timber! -HJC] Which is why no one's actually building OGREs. They're too big, and too slow. (Reminds: Does anyone know the designation of the US Army assault gun prototype from the late '40s that had the main gun in a forward-hull mount that looked damnably like an OGRE MB?) > From: David Morse > Subject: radars & jam screens > > Re: http://www.sjgames.com/miniatures/ogre/structures/ > > I didn't notice before, but golly are radars better than jam screens! [...] I have a better idea, one that works in Reality: Radar is blocked by *any* terrain feature, including rubble hexsides and craters. *Now* try the radar trick! >:) (True story: The radar at Eppley Airport in Omaha, NE, had to be mounted so low to the ground that the ATCs in the tower can monitor traffic flow at 90th and Dodge with it.) > From: David Morse > Subject: What GEV lacks is blitzkrieg. Doubleblind anyone? > I've been reading a bit of military history about armored warfare, and > it seems to me that Ogre doesn't really have massive victories ala the > invasion of France or the six day war. The reason is simple - with no > logistics, no morale, and no battlefield effect of losing your HQ, even > if you get encircled you're doing just fine. They still have to come > and get you, and you'll get the all-important first shot. Not quite. The main reason I can see for this is that, in the OGRE- verse, it is impossible to create the conditions for a successful "massive victory". The units are too expensive to gather in one place for a concerted push, and too vulnerable (nukes, anyone?) once gathered. > In general > you can't perform these decisive victories because a misplaced tank is > still a dangerous tank. Depends on the misplacement. At least in Reality, a tank in a city is dead meat. > I don't want to confuse a blitzkrieg with a simple runaway victory. > Those happen all the time in Ogre. What's the difference? Runaway > victories are usually caused by grave mistakes or Bad Dice. Successful > blitzes CAUSE runaway victories through movement, more than fire. ??? Actually, the main reason the Blitz worked in Reality was that the target was small, and not well-prepared. Look at what Ivan man- aged to accomplish against the '42 German campaigns, one they (finally) got their act together, as compared to the embarrassments of '41. > I'd like to apply the doubleblind mechanic to Ogre. Since there are by > necessity two boards and a referee, we might as well do this as > play-by-email. So any two of you up for this? If you'll excuse the pun, "I'm game". :) (I don't much care for DB myself, but I've been in too many games with out-and-out cheats, so there's my prejudices laid bare. :) ) > I'll bring it up next time. (And it does answer the question. How can > one mine cover a square mile?) -HJC] Well, the CM-mounted type seems to do a neat job of interdicting that much space. :) Seriously: I saw something on History Channel the other day, which had a land mine that could track a target, aim itself at said target, fire its load over said target (eww), and perform a *top* attack (of all things) against the target. A suitably large version might well have a "coverage" of 1 mi^2. CF [Playing _OGRE_ with R. Lee Ermey -- there's a thought.... :) ] ============================== From: Daniel Gallant Subject: Mines >> [I'm working on some notes for mines based on current trends. >> I'll bring it up next time. (And it does answer the question. How >> can >> one mine cover a square mile?) -HJC] Perhaps the "mines" are not really mines. I would suggest a disposable, concealed (camouflage or maybe in a hole), short range missile launcher, with some sensors and a little (drone level) A.I.. As soon as anything as big as an infantry unit (or bigger) is detected and fails the IFF, the missile is fired. Maybe "mines" are really a bunch of BOPPERS hidden in a junk pile? After all, they are dumb as dirt and very short ranged. Daniel Gallant ===== [Bingo! Here's my current working notes. Mines are small, stealthy immobile robots that are equipped with a short range gun, some cheap sensors and a simple computer brain. The stats for a mine are Atk 3, Def 3, only able to fire in overruns and no movement capability all for 1VP each. Mines are normally deployed concealed, with their location written down by the defender rather than being placed on the board. If still concealed when an enemy unit overruns them the mine switches to revealed mode, it is placed where it was noted to be on the battlefield and engages in overrun combat as the defender. It is not possible to place a concealed mine within overrun range of another mine (the constant IFF chatter between the two dumb robots will give away their location), but they can stack with other friendly units without being revealed. Mines attack and defend the same as Ogre weapons, but due to their limited sensors they are only doubled in attack strength against Ogre treads. Note that concealed mines cannot be directly targeted and because they are robots they are immune to spillover fire, but they can be destroyed by a Cruise Missile shockwave. Scanning. Engineers, Ninja Ogres and special scanning hovertrucks can scan for concealed mines. The scanning unit does not move or fire during its turn and at the end of its turn all enemy concealed mines within two inches (one hex) are revealed. Engineers must be dismounted to scan. Mine placement. Hovertrucks can carry disassembled mines. Each mine takes as much cargo space as a squad of infantry. A squad of Engineers stacked with a hovertruck transport can unload and assemble a single mine in five turns. If there is any hostile units within 120 inches (60 hexes) during the assembly the location will be well enough known that the mine is not concealed. Engineers can also disassemble and load friendly mines using the same amount of time. While being assembled or disassembled a mine is not active and counts as having only Def 1. Missiles can also deliver mines. Each Ogre missile can carry one mine instead of its normal warhead and each cruise missile can carry seven mines instead of its normal warhead. Record which missiles have mines when the missiles are purchased. The missile travels to its destination normally and the first mine is placed at the point the missile ends its flight. For cruise missiles the other six mines are placed in a star formation two inches away from the first mine. (The "detonation" hex and the adjacent hexes on the mapboard.) Missile delivered mines are never concealed. Any missile delivered mine that would be placed within overrun range of an armed hostile unit is destroyed before it can deploy. Concealed mines will reveal themselves in order to destroy missile delivered mines that attempt to deploy on top of them. Underwater mines. One shot torpedoes can be placed underwater. These function as all ways as normal mines except that they only make one attack and are themselves destroyed and they can only be assembled or disassembled by Marine Engineers. Underwater mines do not suffer any reduction in attack strength for attacking underwater or surface targets. (I.e. Atk 3 against GEVs, infantry or Ogre weapons and Atk 6 against Ogre treads, just as it they were normal mines making an attack in the clear.) Missiles can also deliver underwater mines, but must be noted as carrying this type when purchased. -HJC] ============================== From: "Kirk Hunt" Subject: Making print quality maps Sir, I downloaded http://cocoon.it.jyu.fi/~aleator/txt2pov.exe but I get the error: Fail: Prelude.head: empty list Where is mapMaker.pov? (Am I being dense?) Thanks for making the software available. Kirk aka Desercat ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html