====== OGRE Digest, Sep 11th, 2003 (Last: Sep 6th) ======== ===== Big tanks From: Sethkimmel@aol.com ===== Radar From: Sethkimmel@aol.com ===== Mail Call From: Sethkimmel@aol.com ===== BOPPERS in Ogre (inspired by Henrys answer) From: Daniel Gallant ===== Blitz From: Sethkimmel@aol.com From: David Morse ===== THE Noise From: "Gurskey, Robert J" ============================== From: Sethkimmel@aol.com Subject: Big tanks > (Reminds: Does anyone know the designation of the US Army > assault gun prototype from the late '40s that had the main gun in > a forward-hull mount that looked damnably like an OGRE MB?) > I've seen the picture.....:-). Had 4 treads like an Ogre!!!!!!! (well, really two sets of "dualies" like a truck... i.e.: on each side of the tank it had a full length set of treads, sprockets and idlers, and another full set outboard of it...interesting......). As for the name; I THINK it was called the Tortoise, though that might have been the name of the British experimental tank of the same era and configuration...... ============================== From: Sethkimmel@aol.com Subject: Radar > I have a better idea, one that works in Reality: Radar is blocked > by *any* terrain feature, including rubble hexsides and craters. > *Now* try the radar trick! >:) > > (True story: The radar at Eppley Airport in Omaha, NE, had to be > mounted so low to the ground that the ATCs in the tower can > monitor traffic flow at 90th and Dodge with it.) > early USN naval surface search radar had shorter effective range than IJN night optics because of surface clutter problems...... ============================== From: Sethkimmel@aol.com Subject: Mail Call > CF [Playing _OGRE_ with R. Lee Ermey -- there's a thought.... :) ] He might LIKE it.....:-) ===== [As long as he doesn't play Evil Stevie. "You call that a rule example? Drop and give me twenty!" -HJC] ============================== From: Daniel Gallant Subject: BOPPERS in Ogre (inspired by Henrys answer) A BOPPER counter repesents a "mob" of 10-15 different BOPPERS, spread out in the hex. They have Atk 3, Rng 1; Def 2, Mov 1 (as a light tank), not affected by D reults, Cost = 2. They can start out as mines for a cost of +1 each. ============================== From: Sethkimmel@aol.com Subject: Blitz > Actually, the main reason the Blitz worked in Reality was that the > target was small, and not well-prepared. Look at what Ivan man- > aged to accomplish against the '42 German campaigns, one they > (finally) got their act together, as compared to the embarrassments > of '41. Yes, people forget Blitz only GREAT for killing forward crust defenses. You defeat Blitz by defending in depth; letting it overpenetrate; then counterattack by pinching it off by flank attacks and cutting it off.... Of course political considerations sometimes don't allow commanders to trade ground for time.... ============================== From: David Morse Subject: blitz >>Subject: What GEV lacks is blitzkrieg. > > Not quite. The main reason I can see for this is that, in the OGRE- > verse, it is impossible to create the conditions for a successful > "massive victory". The units are too expensive to gather in one > place for a concerted push, and too vulnerable (nukes, anyone?) > once gathered. Not to mention nobody ever died of starvation after being out of supply for twelve minutes (three Ogre turns). Heck, even an M1 tank is hard pressed to run out of gas in that time. >>In general >>you can't perform these decisive victories because a misplaced tank is >>still a dangerous tank. > > > Depends on the misplacement. At least in Reality, a tank in a city > is dead meat. Urban ogres are terrifying though: all guns are cybernetically controlled with lightning reflexes. AP guns point in all directions, and probably have /some/ anti-armor value at point blank range, even if the game doesn't reflect it. Main batteries can fire at negative elevation, and blow clear through buildings. Secondary batteries provide indirect fire support, attacking from above what can't be attacked frontally. Its a castle on wheels. > Actually, the main reason the Blitz worked in Reality was that the > target was small, and not well-prepared. Look at what Ivan man- > aged to accomplish against the '42 German campaigns, one they > (finally) got their act together, as compared to the embarrassments > of '41. Hm, an essential ingredient in most blitzes seems to be having won a cold war of military architecture prior to the hot war. At the start of any new 20th/21st century war, the combatants are usually stuck with untested doctrines and equipment. Reality has a savage way of disproving wishful thinking. Hidden scenario goals plus double-blind setup and gameplay might serve to recreate some of this uncertainty, if only by analogy. By way of example: err Hover is going raiding, and breaks through undetected...that is, until he stumbles into Major Blasthelm's slowly advancing column of cruise missile crawlers! [insert Ogre computer game boom noise] ============================== From: "Gurskey, Robert J" Subject: THE Noise I played Ogre on my Apple ][e quite a bit, at first with a green-screen monitor. That wasn't much fun. After getting a color monitor, the appearance was much better. However, I always thought the game was too slow. A hardware accelerator card made all the difference. > Mines > If there is any hostile units within 120 inches (60 hexes) during the > assembly the location will be well enough known that the mine is not > concealed. Henry, 60 hexes is 90 kilometers! That is well below any horizon (see Ogre Digest Jan 29, 2002). Without spy satellites or aerial recon, the sensors of the future must be able to "see" through the ground to detect this activity. Frankly, I don't buy it. Robert Gurskey ===== [I was thinking about weapons of mass destruction today (no reason really...) and how to get the cruise missile rules to work for both hexes and minis without needing a complex table. How about this. A cruise missile explosion has a force of Atk 10 minus one for every inch each target is from the explosion point. Infantry defend as squads and armor gets +1 Def for being in woods. (Otherwise terrain has the normal effects.) Ogres count the range as double what it actually is. Ogre AP batteries have Def 2 against cruise missile explosions for their small size and each Ogre suffers a number of tread attacks (at the adjusted attack strength for range) equal to its own size class. GEVs and D0 units count as D1 armor units that are two inches closer to the explosion. In all of this count each hex as two inches. -HJC] ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html