From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Oct 21 15:44:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19746 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:44:00 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA10778 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:07:04 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:07:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199710212007.PAA10778@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #416 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, October 21 1997 Volume 01 : Number 416 In this digest: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] The Seed of Hope: An Introduction to Dark Victory Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Vapula Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes IN> In Nomine Clarifications & House Rules Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Gabriel, Archangel of Fire Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #412 Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Gabriel, Archangel of Fire Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Vapula Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Gabriel, Archangel of Fire Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Vapula Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Gabriel, Archangel of Fire Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] The Seed of Hope: An Introduction to Dark Victory ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:18:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes > Technically, even most Hell-loyal demons aren't working for Saminga. He just > happens to be running Hell -at the moment,- while virtually every other > Demon Prince tries to think of some way to take his place. That's kind of a given; Hell worked like that when Lucifer was in charge, too, when it comes down to it. > > Anyway, just had the thought...with Gabriel so weakened, > >Andrealphus, being the opportunist he is, may well be working to take over > >her power; with the fires of lust and their potential for `inspiration', > Here's why not. > ANDRE: I think Fire should be under my Word. > ELI, LUCIFER and YVES: SIT DOWN. > ANDRE (sarcastic): Yes, -sir.- > End of discussion. Your Andrealphus isn't very smart, is he? I wasn't suggesting he might approach the other Archangels and ASK for the power; that's why I used the word "subvert". Requesting it would be stupid, while just absorbing the Hope and Inspiration aspects of it without so much as a by-your-leave would be relatively easy and, in these trying times, vastly increase his power. If it REALLY came down to it, he'd even have a good case for it...Archangels are SUPPOSED to hold more metaphorical aspects of their Words as well as the bluntly literal, after all...but the worst that's likely to happen is Gabriel notices and goes complaining, but she's completely off her rocker anyway. Eli'd probably go along because he'd like the excuse, but all told, it's not like it could make Andrealphus's position with the others much worse. If you plan to hold to Andre as a moron, I'd recommend just moving him to the "Deceased" list and have done with it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:44:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] The Seed of Hope: An Introduction to Dark Victory Redneck, buddy, I wanna stick a straw in your brain and suck out some of your creativity. On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > Hell didn't notice this until Novalis was ripped from her place of > torment in the heart of Abaddon by a power so horrible and brilliant in its > glory that few of the lesser demons could even look at it. Subsequent > investigation revealed that Dominic, Marc, Yves, and a great number of > lesser Angels had been rescued from Hades' dungeons. What I want to know is, why didn't Lucifer save David from Vapula's lab? Can't be for personal reasons, because that'd be a selfish act. Besides, he saved Dommie... Oh, while reading your story I had an idea about the missing Janus. Could it be he's gone into the Marches in hopes of gaining the support of the Etheral gods? It makes sense...if you operate on the "Janus is Valefor" thing, then he'd be a -perfect- ambassador. And if you use the "Janus is Hermes/other Etheral god who defected to Heaven" then he'd have the advantage of rallying some hometown chums. :) - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:37:45 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Vapula > > Aw, sure he would...Vapula's not the sort to get terribly upset > > unless his budgets start getting cut...and Saminga seems the sort to be > > very interested in a lot of the things Vapula's got in the works, and to > Well, it didn't sound to me like Sammy was taking the time to support > Vapula's projects; he's busy sucking up the forces of everything that > can't run away. That'll cut into both your funding and pool of test > subjects. As Karakash pointed out.."compared to what?" Vapula's certainly getting fewer than Saminga, but Saminga still can't be everywhere..(poor guy's still just a Shedim. ) He's going to need Vapula's help pulling in all the souls that try to get away, which is probably most of them. (Heck, Vapula's been patrolling those huge borders of Tartarus for centuries, so it's not even anything new to him; he's already got monstrosities built just for roaming around harvesting souls.) {If anything, Vap's probably getting a lot more souls than Saminga knows about...hm...} [Sorry, Gaijin, but you put it up on the list. I can't help but meddle. ] > > Besides, Vapula definitely wouldn't want to be in charge himself. > That's true, and he doesn't really seem to go for politics. If you look > at his writeup in the main book, he's managed to get on the good side of > quite a few powerful Princes without really offending anyone. It's a > lot easier to get your work done that way, I would imagine. Not just that, but who wants to annoy him? His stuff can be awfully useful sometimes, but is likely enough to blow up on you if he's NOT specifically designing it to just out of spite...(Can't you just see him down there tinkering with some new weapon, muttering, "And Belial annoyed me yesterday, so I'll just include this bomb keyed to go off if a Calabim touches it..") > > coup...but I definitely don't see him STARTING one. (I suppose someone > > like Lilith or Marc might even be able to approach him to change > > sides...especially if they could get Yves to offer Jean's old book.) > I guess that you're right in that he might not want to start one, but if > Saminga keeps destroying everything Vapula wants to study, well, PO'd > scientists can get _ugly_. On the other hand, Saminga's proposed experiment (heh) IS certainly an intriguing one...and Vapula's never been allowed to really build and test doomsday devices before, which probably chafed anyway. I'd think it'd be a while before he'd get to the point of considering the likely outcome... > And if he was somehow Redeemed (I don't see him being too keen on the > idea), it would be scary. An actual scientist with the objectivity of Wouldn't it, though? Though I'm afraid, especially in the DV universe, that I don't see him Redeeming, per se...just possibly working for the other side. (A lot of Habbalah probably did, thinking about it.) Getting him to actually Redeem would take some serious counseling. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:21:56 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Kingsley Lintz wrote: "Requesting it would be stupid, while just absorbing the Hope and Inspiration aspects of it without so much as a by-your-leave would be relatively easy and, in these trying times, vastly increase his power." Given that one's Word is deeply ingrained into what one is, wouldn't extending his Word to include Hope and Inspiration start to change Andrealphus's personality? Or, perhaps it runs the other way, and to acquire Hope and Inspiration aspects for his Word, Andre would first have to change his personality to include them. While Yves looks on, grinning... Earl W. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:24:33 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: IN> In Nomine Clarifications & House Rules These are my prospective clarifications and house rules. Comments would be appreciated. 1. You may be assigned by your Superior to serve another superior. Should that superior be of sufficient stature to impose dissonance (Archangels and Demon Princes, certainly), you will be subject to dissonance from both your AA or DP and your immediate superior, as well as your Chorus or Band. You will, of course, be able to invoke that immediate superior. (Clarification.) 2. All resonances which sense are based on Perception (even demonic ones); all those which do something are based on Will (even angelic ones). (Official clarification.) 3. Attunements are automatically successful unless otherwise noted, but they take effect on the following combat round. (P. 108.) 4. Errata are in effect. Note especially that: (a) respectively, Corporeal, Ethereal and Celestial combat and skills are based on Strength, Intelligence and Will while Dodge is based on Agility, Precision and Perception; (b) weapon skills are added to the appropriate characteristic and forces for the type of combat, usually Strength + Corporeal Forces + weapon skill. (Errata.) 5. Body of possessed hosts is computed as Possessor's Strength times (Host's Corporeal Forces + Toughness). Toughness will be rare in animals and probably unknown in birds. The Body of possessed hosts is implied in both IN and NM, but stated in neither. Officially, no decision has been made. (House rule pending official ruling.) 6. A Cherub, Djinn, or Celestial Song of Attraction resonance to a possessed host attunes to the celestial, except for Shedim other than Malphus' which--because a host has both souls in it--randomly attunes to the Shedim or the host's soul. A check digit of 2+, showing general condition, will detect a difference in the Forces expected of 7-CD: CD needed to detect difference Celestial's Forces: Expected Host Forces 6 7 8 9 10+ 5: 6 5 4 3 2 4: 5 4 3 2 2 3: 4 3 2 2 2 2: 3 2 2 2 2 1: 2 2 2 2 2 Multiple attunings can be made to the same being, and this can be used as Shedim detection if a Force, condition, or hazard difference is sensed; but nothing guarantees a Cherub won't get three attunings to a host and still miss a Shedite. Multiple attunings require a dissonance roll for each attuning, but only one level of dissonance can be gained per individual and incident. Detecting individual parts of a Kyrio requires a CD of 6, otherwise only the largest active piece is detected, the nearest for equal pieces. On a CD of 6 sensing a Kyrio, additional attunings may be made to specific parts of the Kyrio. (Clarifications and house rules.) 7. Acrobatics will work only for Corporeal combat. (House rule pending official ruling.) 8. For successful rolls, check digits of less than one will be treated as one, and check digits of greater than six will be treated as a six in cases where the results of check digits are listed in a one-to-six table or for Lilim geasing; otherwise, check digits of greater than six are treated normally. For unsuccessful rolls, difficulty modifiers (p. 38) will be reversed: for example, a very easy, +2, task failed with a check digit of three will be treated as a check digit of one, not five. (House clarification pending official clarification.) 9. Disturbances are detectable at 1/20th mile (88 yds, 264 ft) per disturbance level, rolled against Perception + Celestial Forces. This is so players easily know how far a disturbance will be heard, and so players do not need to be told the range and magnitude of the disturbance before they can make their perception roll. The general effect is to make less perceptive celestials more perceptive and small disturbances more disturbing. (House rule.) 10. Artifacts are as noticable as if they were a distinctive color, but some powerful artifacts may be more easily noticable. Essentially, an artifact will be percieved whenever it would be normally seen; a player doesn't usually have to ask if a particular item is an artifact. (Official clarification.) 11. However, artifacts granted as part of an attunement, such as by Jean or Vapula, will need to be touched to determine that they are artifacts. (Tentative official ruling.) 12. For +3 an Artifact may be unobtrusive: such an Artifact requires a player to specifically look the intent to determine whether it is an Artifact. For +6, an artifact will be detectable only by touch. For -3 an artifact may be day-glow, percieved as an artifact when seen even peripherally; this is compatible with being able to be hidden in a pocket. For -6 the Artifact glows, and can only be hidden in an opaque container; a pocket won't do unless specially light-proofed and sealed; this glow is normal light, visible to mundanes but also distinctive to celestials. For - -9 the Artifact acts as a continuous disturbance of its level, so a relic/6 would cause a continuous disturbance of 6; this is in addition to any disturbance caused by the activation of the Artifact, but the continuous disturbance does not add cumulatively. Artifacts may not be discounted below one third, rounding cost up. (House rules pending expanded official rules.) 13. Resistance Will rolls succeed only when their check digits exceed (not just equal) the check digit of the action. (Page 56 under Opposing Resonance.) 14. The Malakim of Eli attunement will function as: A successful Perception roll will notice a weapon of at least the power of the check digit IF such an object is there to be perceived. Additional weapons of lesser or greater power or durability may also be perceived at the GM's option. The accuracy of perceived weapons will also be sensed. The intent will be to let the Malakite perceive a weapon comparable in power to what would be gained by literal reading of the Attunement, but tempered by reality--you can't wield a grain of sand on a beach or a blade of grass from a lawn as a weapon. (House interpretation.) Use of the weapon will require the appropriate skill, but no default penalties apply. (Official clarification.) 15. The campaign will tend to be realistic. Police will tend to show up in large numbers following shooting. Expect to be arrested if you're obviously packing illegal weapons. 16. Note the while invoking a Song uses either the character's skill or a relic's power, not both; a talisman adds to the skill of the user giving the benefit of both. (Note of official rules.) 17. Weapon change and additions (all house rules): Weapon Power Acc Range Shots Notes Shotgun -1 +6 3 2 Power and Acc are reversed 9 mm civilian - - 10 10 Semi-automatic pistol 9 mm police - - 10 15 Large clips restricted 10 mm +3 - 15 10 Semi-automatic pistol Night vision scopes are available for rifles and M-16's: they do not give the +1 for a scope, but they eliminate night penalties. Silencers are illegal and do not affect the weapon statistics. 18. Celestials may soul-die. If so, you will be allowed to bring in a new character at roughly the level ot the old character--you wiil not have to start out with nine forces and basic points. Your choice of chorus and Archangel may be restricted: typical would be prohibition of the same choir or a requirement to have the same or similar Archangel. (House rule.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:48:04 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Gabriel, Archangel of Fire >> (I just had a mental image of a pile of >> fundys standing around waiting for Rapture, to carry them to Heaven. >> "Um, Lord? Any time now would be good. Hello? Anyone up there?") > >There's a great quote in _Good Omens_, when Aziraphale has posessed >Marvin O. Bagman, televangelist: > >"[Y]ou're right about the fire and war, all that. But that Rapture >stuff - well, if you could see them all in Heaven - serried ranks pf >them as far as the mind can follow and beyond, flaming swords, all >that, well, what I'm trying to say is who has time to go round picking >people out and popping them up in the air to sneer at the people >dying of radiation sickness on the parched and burning earth below >them? [...] [T]o be frank, when the fire falls and the seas of blood >rise you lot are going to be civilian casualties eiter way. Between >our war and your war, they're going to kill everyone and let God sort >it out - right?" > Well, I know this was meant in sort of a light way, but I'm going to play this straight. If you died in the early part of the battle (from the first clash of Heaven and Hell up to the fall of the Eternal City), things worked as before. (New York, Los Angeles, San Antonio, Tokyo, Moscow, London, Berlin, Rome, New Dehli, Beijing, Singapore, Jerusalem and Chicago were all hit by various types of nuclear weapons during this time- over 100 -million- people killed in the nuclear blasts or attendant seismic disturbances alone, never mind the plagues of fire and locusts, the dozens of conventional wars, the conventional bombing and terrorist explosions... about a fifth of the world's population, all told, died during those two or three hours.) After that, Upper Heaven closed itself off, the demons began mopping up, and with only a few random exceptions people who died went to Hell. (Remember all those nuclear blasts? Lilith managed to clean up the radiation in about a week, but during that week, the death toll doubled from radiation poisoning- except for places like Los Angeles, where virtally all the potential victims were drowned first....) One of the adventure seeds I have working in my head is a commando raid into Hell... to rescue as many righteous souls as they can and get out alive. (New Heaven needs no martyrs.) However, there is the matter of Demon Prince Dominic and his Tribulations to contend with... Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:03:58 -0400 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes At 10:18 -0600 10/21/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > If you plan to hold to Andre as a moron, I'd recommend just moving >him to the "Deceased" list and have done with it. I like the idea, personally, of Andre sort of redeeming, but not really, and kinda toeing the line between Demon Prince and Archangel... I figure he has to realize that without humans (i.e., if Saminga gets his way) he's done for, too, word-wise. He might even realize that while he doesn't care for humans on an individual level, he does on a racial level - but would that be enough to redeem him? I'm pretty sure our mailing list Andre would agree (and does anyone else think it's ironic that Andre is, well, Andre, and from Brazil? Hmmm...:) ). Hmmm...we're already making alternatives of the alternative setting. Damn good ideas, though, Redneck. SeanMike - -- SeanMike Whipkey (smw4s@virginia.edu) is: The Grinning Impudite of Andrealphus, Captain of Diabolical Delight South Republican Green Mamba Heavy Gear Pilot/Wannabe Politician UVA Government Major/VP Paintball Club/GWAR Cyberslave/Pep Band Drummer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:34:38 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes >> >LILITH - Severely dissonant, on the brink of Redeeming; defected to the >> >Preserver cause, is now Archangel of Freedom; if she Redeems, she will >> >probably become Archangel of Liberation >> >> Hm. I dunno, I could see her as Freedom on both sides. The Word is what >> you make of it. > >I have to agree with this. Lilith is as neutral as you can get. The >only reason she's a Princess is that Satan gave her a Word out of >respect for her. She's not even included in the Demon Princes, and >Lilim's resonance is a Perception of a person's want. She is her own >person and belongs to NO SIDE. (This is not to say she's the purest >of them all, but the same can be said of some ArchAngels) > >Everything she does is of her own will, volition, choice, whatever >you want to call it. If that doesn't go along with her Word, then I >don't know what does. True... as far as it goes. As I said to someone else, there is a LOT going on in Lilith's head, but the core of it is this; her definition of Freedom, no responsibility, no loyalty, just pure freedom, has led to the collapse of Freedom all over Creation. Lilith has developed a conscience, and it is tearing her apart. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:31:07 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #412 >> >> Yup, friendly guy. In a word, Uriel. ;'} >> >> Much, much, much, much worse. Dominic believes he is the only clean thing in >> the universe... although his servitors will make nice cleaning tools before >> they are burned to remove the taint of corruption. > >Okay, Uriel _might_ not have offed all of his pet Malakim, but other >than that, I don't see him leaving anything else standing. Uriel didn't go after Angels, or even many deviant humans. Uriel was quite happy to let beings loyal to the Almighty live in peace. Dominic doesn't believe anyone but himself is loyal to God. They are all sinners. They must all be destroyed. Etc. etc. etc. > >> Vapula didn't join the Preservers because (a) he didn't notice and (b) he's >> a nutter. > >Crazy, yes. Stupid, no. > >> Vapula would -love- to see the Universe destroyed just so he can observe >> what happens next- he just doesn't realize that when Existence goes, he goes >> with it. > >I don't see him being that dense. There's a difference between being >mad as a hatter and just not bothering to think. He's not dense, really, but like many scientists he possesses some glaring blind spots. Remember Jurassic Park, when Jeff Goldblum's character asks the scientists if, while they were asking if they -could- bring dinosaurs back, they had asked themselves if they -should.- Ethics don't bother Vapula, consequences only present opportunities for entertainment. >> Vapula isn't -quite- as focused as Saminga, but he's got David and all those >> Malakim to play with, so he's going to be occupied for quite some time... > >I can see this keeping him busy for a while since I'm sure Malakim must >fascinate him to no end, but I don't think that he just wouldn't notice >how things are headed. It's not like Saminga is funding him now; he's >too busy chowing down on anything that moves. Saminga has returned- you'll see it in 'The Seed of Fate'- but he's even more in his little world than Vapula is. Neither one really understands the consequences of their actions, which is the most frightening thing about DV. Lucifer had a plan; Saminga has a delusion. The other Princes have to >have made carefully hedged statements around him trying to sniff out >where his loyalties lay. And gotten little or no response. And perhaps Nybbas (with the backing of >Lilith, Marc, or Yves) probably has tried to get him to defect, if for >no other reason than to make all of the other Princes suspicious of >him. In order to get to Vapula, you have to either have one of his Servitors summon him (the odds have been reduced since IN) or go the the very center of one of the most tightly guarded part of Hell- one third of all captive Angels, including EVERY captured Malakim (not many, obviously), are in Tartarus, and Hell does NOT want them rescued. Before Nybbas defected, if he'd said, 'Hey, Vapula, wanna go Renegade with me?' he'd be on the experimenting block if he was -lucky.- Now, Nybbas can't even get close to Vapula. I can't see Vapula supporting the Destuction, at least not right >now. He has so many other experiments that require the existance of the >universe to try out first. Vapula doesn't know he's supporting 'the Destroyers.' Destroyers is New Heaven's name for those loyal to Hell; if you're from Hell, you call yourself a demon (except for some Habbalah and Balseraphs who think they're angels). Vapula doesn't intentionally support the destruction of the Universe, no, but he's not aware that's what he's supporting. To him, the Granite Throne is irrelevant, Saminga is a pest, and Creation is a toy he intends to break to see how it works. As an explanation, let me show how the current politics stand in Hell. Dominic - insane, wanting to sieze Supreme Power so he can cleanse Creation of its imperfections Haagenti - greedy, just wanting the throne from raw bestial want Kronos - content to run Hell behind the scenes, knowing it doesn't really matter who sits on the throne Malphas - scheming, working to expend the other Demon Princes' power against each other so he can sieze control Saminga - stupid and delusional, currently sits on the throne full-time, using his immense power to play petty games with the remaining mortals on Earth before killing them... doesn't even realize yet that organized opposition exists Vapula - smart but blind, focused on his new experiments and not really giving a bless about Hell's politics HTH. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:57:18 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Gabriel, Archangel of Fire >Anthony Baxter wrote: > >> What's going to happen to the major churches under the DV universe? >> After all that's happened, and with Larry out of the picture, I can't >> see the Catholic Church playing a big part in the lives of people. > >Um... All organizational structure is in shreds, of course, but >some kind of religion is going to be playing a BIG part in people's >lives. I'd think it goes something like this: > >It is now screamingly obvious that all the prophecies by Jew, >Christian, and Moslem alike, about a coming judgement day, are RIGHT. >So, for a start, those religions get a huge boost. > >Only... Where's the Messiah? Where's the actual judgement? As I mentioned elsewhere, the general consensus will be that Armageddeon - -hasn't- happened yet, and this is just a tune-up for the real thing. However, the churches won't be doing too much intercommunication- phones still work in Texas as far as from Fredricksburg to Tyler, -sometimes,- but a message to Boston would take three days minimum by courier, and communicating between continents is an epic exercise in taking control of communications satellites in decaying orbits with equipment which can't be replaced most places, or getting ships across oceans where Leviathan is awake once more, or flying through stormy and still radioactive skies.... >Which brings us to-- > >> fundamentalist churches are also going to be changing, methinks. >> After all, it's one thing to preach fire and brimstone - what happens > when it arrives? (I just had a mental image of a pile of fundys >> standing around waiting for Rapture, to carry them to Heaven. "Um, >> Lord? Any time now would be good. Hello? Anyone up there?") > >I suppose Buddhists and Hindus will be able to cope; their religions >have their doomsdays, too. But conservative Christianity will be >getting a LOT of new members, at least at first. The ones thin on >the ground, as was said before, will be atheists. > Also, a LOT of desperate people will be turning to other religions- for example, the Church of Scientology on the Drag in Austin will become a Church of the Second Coming of Thor. In some places, human sacrifice will make a comeback (thanks to Servitors of Saminga), in others you'll have strange denominations like the Church of Jesus Christ's Rebirth, who believe Armageddeon was fought at the rebirth of Jesus into a human baby in Des Plaines. In short, religion will be a -mess.- Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:03:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation Is it just me, or does this entire scenario remind anyone else of The Stand? *grin* I suppose every big apocalyptic, post-big-destruction, we're rebuilding but there's this huge evil who wants to destroy everyone story reminds me of the Stand. And the cool thing is, there might really be a demon out there named Flagg. Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Applications Programmer III and Balseraph of the Game Desktop Applications Team - Medical Center Information Technology Current Quote: "Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Prank a Malakite, and you're on your own..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:03:03 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Vapula >On Oct 21, 8:45am, Donald G Bixler wrote: > Speaking of which, this might be a _very_ good campaign >for a 'souls in Hell' saga. With so many princes dead or redeemed >and the flood of new souls (and total whack-out in charge) you >could conceivably have pockets of 'free' souls wandering around >Hell, trying to stay out of the legions of death. > The odds are very, very, very, VERY much against them... ... but in places like the darkened casinos of Shal-Mori, the back alleys of the city of Hades, and the blank video screens of Perdition... ... a few of the Damned do cower, trying to avoid attention. None of the 'fresh' ones, though- the processing system is still working well enough so that you can't escape until -after- you have been assigned. (Oh, one note; in Abaddon, there have -always- been souls doing this. I have always pictured Adolf Hitler, cowering with some fanatic servants, in a dark corner of Saminga's realm. They haven't got him yet, and they never will...) Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:19:35 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Gabriel, Archangel of Fire Redneck Gaijin wrote: "...never mind the plagues of fire and locusts..." And don't neglect all the great special effects from the original book of Revelation, e.g. locusts the size of horses, with human faces and scorpion tails, or celestial riders (it's not clear to me which side) on lion-headed horses. Not to mention the scarlet Beast with seven heads and ten horns. Yeah, I know that's a political allegory, but it would also make a cool piece of, say, Numinous Corpus for some jumped up Soldier of Hell whose been cast as Emperor of the World at some point in the proceedings. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:17:13 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes >> > Anyway, just had the thought...with Gabriel so weakened, >> >Andrealphus, being the opportunist he is, may well be working to take over >> >her power; with the fires of lust and their potential for `inspiration', >> Here's why not. >> ANDRE: I think Fire should be under my Word. >> ELI, LUCIFER and YVES: SIT DOWN. >> ANDRE (sarcastic): Yes, -sir.- >> End of discussion. > Your Andrealphus isn't very smart, is he? He's very smart, and no, he wouldn't use this actual approach. My point here is that virtually every other Superior in the New Heaven is - -watching- for him to do things like this, -especially- Lucifer, who knows Andre better than all of them -and- has the Seraph attunement to the truth to boot. > I wasn't suggesting he might approach the other Archangels and ASK >for the power; that's why I used the word "subvert". Requesting it would >be stupid, while just absorbing the Hope and Inspiration aspects of it >without so much as a by-your-leave would be relatively easy and, in these >trying times, vastly increase his power. Hope has been taken over by Lucifer anyway- it was his in the Beginning. Inspiration is being handled by Eli, although he hopes that Gabriel will recover to help it out- he feels inadequate to the task. Eli'd probably >go along because he'd like the excuse, No, he wouldn't. Remember, there was a major feud between Eli and Andre before Armageddeon, and it's still just under the surface even now. Now, there is -nothing-, and never has been, preventing one Angel from supporting aspects of another's Word. However, what you are suggesting is Andre making a power play to essentially put Gabriel under his control- which the Angelic-natured Archangels will not permit- or he's moving to associate aspects of her word with Lust, in which case I misunderstood your intent... but it wouldn't be in character with the old Demonic Andre to even - -care- about hope or inspiration. His Word is still Lust. Now, -Eli- might have to worry about such things, since one of Andre's most important jobs in the DV universe will be encouraging humanity- and all life- to be fruitful and multiply. Eli's a very busy, very worried Archangel, and he -could- find the procreation aspect of Creation yanked out from under him... Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:31:07 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Vapula > As Karakash pointed out.."compared to what?" Vapula's certainly >getting fewer than Saminga, but Saminga still can't be everywhere..(poor >guy's still just a Shedim. ) He's going to need Vapula's help >pulling in all the souls that try to get away, which is probably most of >them. (Heck, Vapula's been patrolling those huge borders of Tartarus for >centuries, so it's not even anything new to him; he's already got >monstrosities built just for roaming around harvesting souls.) {If >anything, Vap's probably getting a lot more souls than Saminga knows >about...hm...} [Sorry, Gaijin, but you put it up on the list. I can't >help but meddle. ] Oh, Vapula is getting a -lot- of souls... including, as I mentioned elsewhere, -every- captive Malakite. And Tartarus is guarded more tightly than ever before, with Vapula in the very center. > > On the other hand, Saminga's proposed experiment (heh) IS >certainly an intriguing one... Saminga hasn't proposed anything to Vapula. Saminga really doesn't understand what he's -doing.- However, there is a chance that, someday soon, Saminga will wonder what the death of a -planet- would be like.... > Wouldn't it, though? Though I'm afraid, especially in the >DV universe, that I don't see him Redeeming, per se...just possibly >working for the other side. (A lot of Habbalah probably did, thinking >about it.) Getting him to actually Redeem would take some serious >counseling. > Every day, at dawn, a snowball miraculously appears in Sheol. (or the soul of one, to be technical.) Today, Vapula is going to see what happens to a snowball in a chamber filled with highly compressed chloroflourocarbons. Yesterday, he dropped the snowball off the highest spire in Hades to see if it would fall faster than a human soul. Tomorrow, he plans ballistics testing, firing the snowball into a neutronium plate half an inch thick at orbital velocity. That snowball has better odds of survival than the odds on anyone convincing Vapula to give up his torture, his vivisection, his test-by-destruction ways and join New Heaven. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:54:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Gabriel, Archangel of Fire Redneck Gaijin wrote: > As I mentioned elsewhere, the general consensus will be that > Armageddeon -hasn't- happened yet, and this is just a tune-up for > the real thing. Right. But if there is widespread catastrophe and lots of supernatural manifestation, there ought to be a widespread opinion that they are in the midst of the seven-year Tribulation that preceeds Armageddon proper. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:42:38 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] The Seed of Hope: An Introduction to Dark Victory > >Redneck, buddy, I wanna stick a straw in your brain and suck out some of >your creativity. > >On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >> Hell didn't notice this until Novalis was ripped from her place of >> torment in the heart of Abaddon by a power so horrible and brilliant in its >> glory that few of the lesser demons could even look at it. Subsequent >> investigation revealed that Dominic, Marc, Yves, and a great number of >> lesser Angels had been rescued from Hades' dungeons. > >What I want to know is, why didn't Lucifer save David from Vapula's lab? >Can't be for personal reasons, because that'd be a selfish act. Besides, >he saved Dommie... Lucifer, for all his power, is only one being. He was able to rescue Dominic, Marc and Yves from Hades easily because Hades is mostly empty- Asmodeus' Servitors mostly shared his fate. Novalis' rescue, however, set off the alarms, and Lucifer, in his weakened, Redeemed state, would have had a tremendous battle to get into Tartarus and back out to rescue David with the alarms raised. Lucifer -does- feel guilty about leaving him there, however, and soon there will be a rescue mission mounted.... >Oh, while reading your story I had an idea about the missing Janus. Could >it be he's gone into the Marches in hopes of gaining the support of the >Etheral gods? It makes sense...if you operate on the "Janus is Valefor" >thing, then he'd be a -perfect- ambassador. And if you use the "Janus is >Hermes/other Etheral god who defected to Heaven" then he'd have the >advantage of rallying some hometown chums. :) > My take on Janus and Valefor is as follows. Janus and Valefor are an example of a game not defining the Absolute Truth, leaving it open to the gamemasters. Whatever I could say about them, even in defining them in DV, is strictly blowing wind like any other player until the Secret Masters decide to nail down the Absolute Truth... if they have already, I haven't seen it. If I said, for instance, 'Janus and Valefor are two different beings,' anybody else could say, 'that's what YOU think.' Since I am basing DV as closely as my pocketbook will allow to canon, I can't go any farther than that. IF Janus and Valefor are the same being, they are watching and waiting. IF Janus and Valefor are separate, Janus killed Valefor in Armageddeon. IF Janus/Valefor is actually Hermes, then he's planting the seeds of the revival of Paganism. (This has extensive ramifications for those who were playing IN backwards.) What is the truth? I ain't sayin' until the Secret Masters say what the truth is in IN. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #416 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.