From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Thu Oct 23 19:05:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13936 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:05:45 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA04331 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:36:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:36:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199710232336.SAA04331@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #428 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, October 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 428 In this digest: Gold Digger (Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic) Re: IN> When words collide Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #412 Re: IN> In_Nomine(live action) Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation IN> IN Brasil Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? Re: Escaping dissonance (Was: Re: IN> Re: Redeeming Shedim: it can be done) Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - the Northeast States of America IN> Re: Escaping dissonance Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing Re: IN> B5 Victory Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing Re: IN> Act 1 (humour) Re: IN> Act 1 (humour) Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation Re: IN> In_Nomine(live action) Re: IN> B5 Victory Re: Escaping dissonance (Was: Re: IN> Re: Redeeming Shedim: it c Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Litheroy's Status Re: IN> IN: Dice questions. Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: IN> IN Brasil Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:43:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Gold Digger (Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic) At 1:05 PM -0500 10/23/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >Redneck (Another Gold Digger fan among the Secret Masters? I wonder if >there's someone I could tempt into swapping GD or Athena subscriptions for a >sub to Pyramid up there... ^_-) (Hmmmm.... *HMMMMMM*.... Though we do want to support our local comic shop... You'd have to tempt SJ or one of the other bigger Superiors. Though it could tempt... Has a new Athena come out recently?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:28:40 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> When words collide At 6:15 AM +0200 10/23/97, Jo Hart wrote: >Does anyone have any thoughts about how celestials manage to coexist on the >sade 'sides' when they have words that naturally conflict with each other? > >For example, I'm sure there is an angel who has the word 'Peace', how >could it co-exist when there was an AA who claimed the absolute opposite of >their word? They squabble a lot in Council and often work against each other... Note that Novalis and Blandine are both at loggerheads with Michael, and vice versa. It's a sort of touchy situation. This is what keeps poor Marc busy a lot of the time. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:46:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? At 1:15 PM -0500 10/23/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>(An aside - did Litheroy's fate get mentioned anywhere? I'm assuming from >>the comment in the Seed of Fate story about Seraph AA's that he was toasted) >> >All the Seraph Archangels were 'accounted for.' That means either Litheroy >got waxed or captured. If captured, he's still in Hell, either in Abaddon or >Tartarus. (I suspect the latter, with Vapula using him as a tool of some sort.) > >I haven't finalized this because I don't have and probably won't be buying >the GM Pack anytime soon, and so won't have Litheroy's or his counterpart's >writeup to refer to for personality or other details. > >I'll leave it up to those who know better... > >... if Litheroy was a 'hard-liner' or militant, he's dead. Litheroy was the AA of Revelations. He was concerned with Truth and discovery. His "Associated" listing is Yves, Dominic, Michael, and Laurence, so he's got War-party ties, but those are mostly because one is Destiny, two others are Seraphim (like himself) and the third is an honor-loon. He's hostile to Jean (hiding tech!) and Janus (who never goes near him). >If he was less combative, he's in Hell being 'rewarded' for his unremitting >honesty. Or broken out with the others? Alaemon, on the other hand, probably skipped the battle as well and is deep in hiding somewhere -- hm. Ah, yes, Alaemon and Litheroy both vanished deep into Alaemon's Principality and have not emerged as of yet. And since Alaemon was a minor Prince anyway, nobody's gone looking. How's that? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 15:40:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing At 5:52 PM -0500 10/22/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >[...] His guards were more than happy to tell Dominic of the >outcome of the Great Battle, telling the truth but not the whole truth... >they told of Michael and Laurence's Last Stand, but not of the hundreds of >angels and two Princes who had died to pull them down. You'd think he could have resonated that they weren't being honest... Still. > SHEDIM - Shedim of Dominic are assigned to lead souls not to >corruption, but to destructions. A Shedim may add the level of a target's >strongest single Discord (Except humans don't have Discord in the soul-staining sense.... Or can these Shedim possess *celestial* vessels? Eeek! ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:21:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation At 12:44 PM -0500 10/23/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >And Fear was part of Beleth's old Word. I suspect DPs will be VERY LEERY of >giving that to anyone for a while. Especially if they're not sure if she's dead yet. What happens when you give people the same Words? Well, we already saw Gaby and Belial. What if the Words are on the same side? That sounds like it *should* be painful, whatever happens. (Yes, her Tower and Blandine's fell down. Do you really want to chance that they aren't off together somewhere, having said, "A plague on both their houses. Remember that little dreamscape back in the Far Marches? The one with the chocolate and sextoys?" and reassigning their Words will get one or both of them back going *ahem*?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 15:44:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes At 6:17 PM -0500 10/22/97, tom timberlake wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Leslie Fish, "Infamous Anarchist" and filk singer. The first is >> "Bring It Down" from the tape: "Firestorm: Songs of the Third World >> War" (by Leslie Fish, once published by Firebird; may be NLA), and >> the other is Freedom Road, from the tape "It's Sister Jenny's Turn >> To Throw The Bomb." Ditto on the publisher. >> >> With suitable Geas offered, I could type in all the words and send >> them to you. > >No, don't do it--just offer her enough chocolate and she will send them >to you for free!! Save your soul from KK's clutches!! Don't give in to >her wiles!! Don't you know it's a special attunement for me to inflict a geas on anyone who offers me chocolate? Of course, I'm not a Seraph. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:26:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? At 10:57 PM -0400 10/22/97, Emily Dresner wrote: [...] >or "It falls flat, and because it's not in my canon it's wrong/backwards >(is my Word now a derogatory term?)" or "You are just incorrect". I >couldn't believe you said that to ArchAngel Beth over LILITH. Calmly, calmly -- my Lilith wasn't quite his Lilith. (I happen to like mine just fine, and since I have the INC, I can put that little thing up with a couple of edits here and there, and a note that though inspired by his stuff, it's "off" slightly -- yet another DV multiverse. Absolute power goes so nicely towards not taking too much too strongly. And I get to fix all the plural/singular errors, too, when I put things there.) Besides, he said that my mini-scene with L&L was good. Just so long as everyone knows that *all* versions of DV, or BV, or GV/EV (Gray/Ethereal Victory) are valid as ideas. (Redneck can certainly say, "I'm not going to write that in *my* universe!" Other people can say, "Well, I am!" And I'll smile and put up a page called "Victory Variations"...) If people write up a plot seed, based on the DV universe that Redneck's been doing fine work on, and it involves Andre's bid for stealing Passion out from under Gaby, I'll put it up on the Plot Seeds page with a note such as: "This is based on the Dark Victory universe by Redneck (who doesn't think this is going to happen in his canon). Have fun with it." (Sorry, Kris -- I'm an equal oppotunity archivist.... I'll put in that you wouldn't have it happen in your canon, but if others like it, then they get to play it however they want. ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:10:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #412 At 9:10 AM -0400 10/23/97, John Dye wrote: >Redneck Gaijin wrote: >> >> >Just as a question, is it, like, officially cool to Dominic-bash on this >> >list? > >> So, we're talking about the DV Dominic here, not the IN Dominic. >> >> In IN, Dominic is anal-retentive, but a well-meaning anal-retentive. > >Perhaps the question should be "What is Dark Victory". I came in a bit >late, and missed this "milestone" which is sending about a hundred >messages a day about this. Any answers (besides, Luci wins, God loses, >game over)? Dark Victory is "Armageddon comes. The Demons win. Oops." It's based on the fiction by Redneck (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/fiction.html) and has turned into a miniworldbook of its own (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/seeds/DarkVictory) and is perhaps worth looking at? (I'll be uploading the latest stuff on it sometime today late or tomorrow.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:13:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In_Nomine(live action) At 9:46 AM -0400 10/23/97, Chuck Ryan wrote: >at this point we are leaning toward >the potable sets of individual dice (If you can find itty-bitty dice and small glass vials (Hm. The things that brine-shrimp eggs come in, sometimes might work), you can put 3 of the former into one of the latter. But they have to be *really* itty-bitty dice.) >1) Malikim . I have a great fear of the game ( at least on the angelic >side being overrun with these fanatical Marines of god ) and I don't >know weather to bane them for fairness or let them in on an individual >basis trying to avoid mass munchinism here Make sure that they have very strict orders about how much mayhem they can raise. "Don't make a mess at the mall" is a good place to start... >2) Kryotites and there demonic counterpart ( forgive me I don't have my >book here and I only had 1 cup of coffee this morning and my brian is >functioning accordingly ) the kriotites are difficult to deal with >unless they are in a human vessel and there demonic counterpart the >shidem( yes ) are just down right evil Yep. You might want to ban them at first... Especially Kyrios of Jean. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:02:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation At 9:15 PM -0400 10/22/97, Perry wrote: >Redneck Gaijin wrote: >> > I can see the Archangels' Council convening to appoint Words >> >to bolster their ranks, especially the *big* words -- Hope, Courage, >> >Dedication, and those left vacent by the deaths of the holders -- in >> >the hopes that they could get some more Superiors... >> > >> I hope you'll understand if I work through the Elder Superiors before making >> up younger Archangels. > >There is already an angel with the word of hope, it's one of Blandine's >, the menunim) Actually, the Menunim are *all* "angels of hope," just as the Mercurians are "Friends of Man." They symbolize the Word as a Choir; no one Menunite holds it. One wonders what happened to the Menunim and Pachadim. At 9:01 PM -0500 10/22/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>There is already an angel with the word of hope, it's one of Blandine's >>, the menunim) [...] > >Ah, the Menunim are a -group-, Blandine's servants in general. Beth listed >Blandine and Beleth as 'missing,' "missing, presumed dead" -- I'm not going to make statements on things where nobody found the body. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:42:37 -0200 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> IN Brasil Highway Star wrote: > > Why? Do you think Brazil is a lustful place? ):-9 > > > > Just rather...uninhibited, and perhaps racy - at least, that's the > impression I've always got, from mass media and from the one person I knew > here at UVA from Brazil (she had a hard time keeping her clothes on, a lot > of the time). Ok, you made me do it... IN BRASIL Coming Soon. Andre, D.P. ):-9 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:33:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? At 1:59 AM +0000 10/23/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> And the Angels who welcomed this evil into Heaven? Nope, sorry, they >> don't belong. >> >> They'll have to go. > >That'll probably be on his agenda after he frees his Malakim and >cleans out Hell's Forces in Heaven. Of course, he probably realizes >he won't survive to do so, but such are his priorities. (Besides, they're Malakim he wants to release. You think that the Malakim released are going to smile nicely at Andre at the Council? Far more likely that they'll snarl and lunge and be yanked back on leashes by frantic angelic Archangels saying, "Woah, woah, let them live! That's an order! Let them live! It's not your choice right now!") (I, myself, have been having mild amused notions of a little sneak-team composed *mostly* of demons, sneaking into Tartarus commando style, with one high-ranking angel along to talk to the Malakim and say, "Yves and Eli say don't kill the demons that I'm here to rescue you with. Got that? Yeah, they're running things pretty much now. Promise, no mayhem unless somebody hits first? Okay, I can let you out now.") - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:36:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Escaping dissonance (Was: Re: IN> Re: Redeeming Shedim: it can be done) At 7:04 AM +0000 10/23/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:02:21 +0100, Sam Kington >wrote: [...] >>well. There are, IIRC, two types of dissonance (Choir/Band or Superior): >> 1) You get dissonance for doing something you're not supposed to >> 2) You get dissonance if you don't do at least [foo] every so often >> >>Now, if you go up against 1) and you put your foot in it, you know >>straight away... > >I'm not sure you do necessarily. Suppose you're a Cherub, and gain >dissonance for harming your attuned. You disarm his gun because he's clumsy >and might shoot himself. So far so good. Later he's in a situation where he >needs the gun for self-defence, and he dies because it's been disarmed. >Should the Cherub get dissonance then? He gets dissonance because his attuned died. The *how* of it is not important. He wasn't there to keep the attuned alive, and so he is dissonant. If he actually harmed ("betrayed") his attuned charge, then he gets *more* dissoance... >What if a Mercurian plants a landmine? Does he get dissonance when it kills >a human, however much later that is? HADES, HEAVEN AND FAR MARCHES **YES**! Heck, he might get it when he planted the live landmine, or at least be hearing the Jaws theme about it... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:59:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - the Northeast States of America At 3:20 AM -0500 10/23/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >The current Northeast States of America government has representatives from >Pennsylvania (mostly the Wilkes-Barre area and Erie), Philadelphia still >alive with riots and street-to-street fighting), New York state (everything >north of White Plains is still above sea level), Connecticut (the eastern >half), Rhode Island, Massachussets, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. New "Live Free or Die" Hampshire and Maine might be doing stuff on their own, of course. NH is a weird place. For Yankees, they're pretty compatible with my Texas Rose upbringing. Of course, I grew up in Austin, so I'm atypical already. (Let a bunch of Taxachussets Bleeding Heart Liberals take over government? You gotta be kidding... O;> These are the two states who flipped license-plate colors all over the map -- Mass. wanted to be able to spot the people coming from the NH-state-owned liquor stores easily by plate-color; NH wanted all the Mass people to keep coming up and buying cheaper booze without fear.) Hey, I'm living up here now, I'm allowed to make comments from the peanut gallery. >Life is hard, but better than other places, within the NSA. Food, water, >electricitity, fuel, and raw materials are all rationed, most of the >surviving loyal men between 16 and 45 have been drafted, That's it, moving back to Austin. BTW, Malphas ought to get around to smiting this fellow eventually -- Factions is supposed to *break* things down (as ordered), not go around on world-conquest kicks... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:58:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: Escaping dissonance At 6:51 PM +0000 10/23/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >In cases where an angel is suppose to protect someone, suppose a bunch of >demons take the person away from the angel without hurting him. So far, the >angel hasn't failed his duty. But at some point, if the balance of >probabilities shifts so the angel can no longer succeed in protecting his >charge, and the angel will gain dissonance. The interesting point is that >the angel may not know when this point is. For example, suppose the demons >above were disguised as bodyguards--the angel wouldn't have a clue until >the situation became irrecoverable and the dissonance hit him. If he's a Cherub, then that's what happens anyway... It doesn't matter where he is, or how he got to be so far away... When the charge is harmed, the Cherub goes "Owch!" Not before. >If you make the potential dissonance into the equivalent of Danger Sense, >then you've given every celestial nearly the equivalent of Michael Malakim >Choir Attunement. (As a GM, I say A celestial should know when he's skirting the edge -- it's his nature, after all -- but all he's going to get is "I'm about to do something that I don't like..." This is for those Mercurians burying landmines. They should be loathe to do it anyway, and if a human gets blown up, they take the dissonace right then.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 00:00:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, tom timberlake wrote: > > When you find it, please either post it or send me a copy, please? I see what I can do. > [blink my baby blues, maybe that will convince her--*blink**blink*] [Very evil laughter] Sorry Tom you're not my type. As Archbeth can tell you I am 6'4" Long hair, Stormy grey eyes with a flash of lightning,...and a greying beard. I am very male. Sorry dude. Lord Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:54:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing At 1:49 PM -0500 10/23/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>Here's another question: Demonic Words used to be assigned on the personal >>authority of Lucifer. What happens now? Somehow, I can't see Saminga >>handing out Words... >> >Ooooh, good one. > >The person holding the Granite Throne will have power to hand out Words on >their own. > >Saminga doesn't care about other people's words, so once he takes over, no >more Worded demons until he's deposed, -if- he is. So how did Dommie get his Word-swap, then? (Asked the Demon Princess of Nitpicking.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:49:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> B5 Victory At 2:08 PM -0400 10/23/97, Highway Star wrote: >At 22:05 -0500 10/22/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >> >>Redneck (Superpowerful aliens v. superpowerful aliens, humans in the middle, >>humans win, short version, Oops) > >Actually, my RoleMaster GM and I had a conversation like this last night, >and it all started with talking about some of the new GURPS supplements >(UltraTech 2, Black Ops, Biotech), and the your Dark Victory scenario. > >So what happens to angels and demons who are corporeally killed in DV? I >assume they go to heaven or hell - but that'd be fun trying to get back to >Earth, eh? I would assume they wind up staring at their Hearts, whereever those Hearts may be. Or, for the Heartless, they wind up in Limbo. (_Heaven & Hell_, p. 79.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:53:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing At 2:42 PM -0500 10/23/97, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >> About a quarter of Dominic's older demons are servitors of Belial who >> weren't in the head-to-head against Gabriel's troopers. > >Which raises the converse question -- where did Dominic's surviving >angels go when their Archangel fell? Probably to Yves -- Dominic liked Yves, in his time. I can just see the rag-tag survivors of Judgment huddling around and looking rather uncertain. Of course, since I generally have Dom as a "tough but fair by his lights" sort, some of the Judgement survivors would probably be creeping forwards, apologizing for messing with Creationers, and asking to make amends. (Unfair punishment was dissonant for them, after all.) And some of Dommie's lot probably Fell as well; many of his Elohim are now Habbalah, singing his praises as they clense and clense and clense... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:24:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: IN> Act 1 (humour) Encore! Let's see what the big K has up his sleeve... Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:09:06 -0200 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Act 1 (humour) Hart, Joanna wrote: > On the summoning of demons (A play in 3 acts) Cool - nice piece of fiction!! And I'm dying to see the rest... Andre, D.P. p.s.: BTW, "Candle in the Wind" to summon the DP of FATE was bloody *perfect*!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 00:31:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > P. S. Can't stand Stephen King. He's far, far, far too good at what he > does... which is disgust people. I will admit that he's one of the great > writers of this century, though. Don't know. I don't care for him, because he isn't as good at it as Lovecraft was. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:54:21 -0400 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation >>I'm not sure "Depression" or "Despair" is going to be a demon prince. But >>I think there are better, large ones. I guarantee you "Madness" will come >>back in spades. [Redneck] >Hm. Insanity, that's a heavy demonic word. Is it? Many cultures (until fairly recently in fact) have considered the insane to be almost divine. The Arabic cultures thought, for instance, that the insane had seen the face of Allah.... (Just throwing a wrench into the works... ) Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon charybdis@krilion.cnchost.com http://www.krilion.cnchost.com ** God is an Iron ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:53:40 -0200 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> In_Nomine(live action) Chuck Ryan wrote: > Ok I am currently in the planning stages of a live action game here in > providence. at this point we are leaning toward > the potable sets of individual dice( I just hate that rock paper > ....crap ) the reason I'm posting here is because we still have some > major problems to work out Cool! I'm doing one on All-Hollow's Eve, October, 31st... And I *am* using the rock-paper...crap system. > 1) Malikim . If a player wants to munchkin, he will munchkin in whichever character he got his hands on. Relax... Malakim bark more than they bite. > 2) Kryotites and there demonic counterpart Well, probably the Kyrio will have at least one human vessel. The other ones he can use as NPCs ("I'm sending my bird vessel to see what's behind that wall."). If he is a pack of cats or a swarm of bees, let him roleplay that (if you're not in a public place, of course!). The sheddim, they will always be in human vessels, no problem. My only problem is with disturbances - How we'll make it known to the PCs?? No, don't come with tinker bells... :-) I'm seriously thinking in letting go the minor ones and just advise them through the referees if some major bashing happens - like some human killed or Superior appearance... Andre, D.P. ):-9 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 00:00:58 +0000 From: "A. Nachmias" Subject: Re: IN> B5 Victory Hello, > Well, actually, that short silly snippet could explain a lot... With the > big powerful guys busy wacking on each other, humans tend to get overlooked > and ignored... And we're a rather creative and resourceful bunch. Once we > know about Celestials, don't you think we could foster their taking each > other on-- weakening both sides... and come up with some handy tools to > take the survivors down and maybe even out? Hey, the people on the list know quite about celestials, so actually, we and the Steve Jackson writers can be trooped into Soldiers of Earth, or something. ;-) Best Regards, A. Nachmias ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 00:00:58 +0000 From: "A. Nachmias" Subject: Re: Escaping dissonance (Was: Re: IN> Re: Redeeming Shedim: it c Walt Mazur wrote: > > The Mercurian, if I had been the judge of it, would be a > >tougher one. Why didn't he plant that landmine? Planting landmines is > >basically a violence promoting act, therefore, if he did that for > >those causes, he would get a dissonance note when a human'll die. On > >the other hand, if he planted that mine to escape a pack of demons, I > >wouldn't give him a dissonace note since he didn't explicitly, > >wantingly and directly promote violence. > I don't know if I'd let the Mercurian off the hook for good > intentions--"The road to Hell..." But specific cases aside, the basic point > I was trying to make is that some actions are ambiguous, almost quantum > mechanical. An action might cause a disonance condition or it might not; > you don't know until an arbitrary time after the action. Well, I think each case should be judged by itself. There is no general in such cases. > In cases where an angel is suppose to protect someone, suppose a bunch of > demons take the person away from the angel without hurting him. So far, the > angel hasn't failed his duty. But at some point, if the balance of > probabilities shifts so the angel can no longer succeed in protecting his > charge, and the angel will gain dissonance. The interesting point is that > the angel may not know when this point is. For example, suppose the demons > above were disguised as bodyguards--the angel wouldn't have a clue until > the situation became irrecoverable and the dissonance hit him. He's a Cherub! He shouldn't trust no bodyguards, and even if he does, even if the demons cheated him, he still failed and will gain dissonance notes even though he didn't do it on purpose. > If you make the potential dissonance into the equivalent of Danger Sense, > then you've given every celestial nearly the equivalent of Michael Malakim > Choir Attunement. I didn't do that. Best Regards, A. Nachmias ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:12:47 -0400 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Litheroy's Status >>(An aside - did Litheroy's fate get mentioned anywhere? I'm assuming from >>the comment in the Seed of Fate story about Seraph AA's that he was toasted) [Redneck] >All the Seraph Archangels were 'accounted for.' That means either Litheroy >got waxed or captured. If captured, he's still in Hell, either in Abaddon or >Tartarus. (I suspect the latter, with Vapula using him as a tool of some sort.) > >I haven't finalized this because I don't have and probably won't be buying >the GM Pack anytime soon, and so won't have Litheroy's or his counterpart's >writeup to refer to for personality or other details. > >I'll leave it up to those who know better... > >... if Litheroy was a 'hard-liner' or militant, he's dead. I wouldn't call him a hard-line. He's too curious about things to be militant about it... More like a kid poking an anthill to see what happens... [Redneck] >If he was less combative, he's in Hell being 'rewarded' for his unremitting >honesty. I think that more likely... and not just for his honesty-- for his information. Since he can't NOT answer questions, I think that Hell would find him a rather handy tool in captivity... Then again, I can see one of the other AA's killing him before he can be captured-- just to prevent such a predicament. Course, I also rather suspect that the rest of the Host of Heaven didn't tend to tell Litheroy (or his servitors) too much-- just in case... [A Fluff' example] I mean, in game play, Terrence (one of the Demonic PCs) has refused to tell Jeremiah (my Ofanim of Litheroy) what Band he is or who he serves-- which is really bugging Jeremiah, I might add... After Jeremiah pestered Terrence about it enough, Terrence finally made him this offer: "Okay, I'll disclose my nature and superior immediately after you take everything you know about the Divine gameplan-- as well as the Earthly locations and roles of all known angels and soldiers of God-- and then run that knowledge on the big screen at Times Square." Jeremiah's answer: "Well, I'm not sure what good it will do you. What I know about such things could be summed up in about 3 sentences. And to be completely honest, I'm really not sure how to go about renting time on the marquis in Times Square, but I'll look into it." And he means it too. If he gets a chance, he's really gonna look up ad rates... :) But as Terence's player, my GM and I have all agreed-- how much harm can it do? I mean, who in Heaven is gonna tell anything about the Divine plans to a servitor of Litheroy? Unless they have some reason for wanting the Diabolicals to know about it... Courier New Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon charybdis@krilion.cnchost.com http://www.krilion.cnchost.com ** God is an Iron ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 00:00:58 +0000 From: "A. Nachmias" Subject: Re: IN> IN: Dice questions. Charybdis GreyDragon wrote: > [A. Nachmias] > > I'm beginning a new In-Nomine campaign and I was > >pondering about the repeating diceless/diceful question every GM in > >almost every RPG deals with. > Okay. Shoot... *Bang!* Oops. > [A. Nachmias] > > Yes, when I think of it, In-Nomine can very easily be > >played diceless, hell, I don't see what reason is for an Angel or a > >Demon to fail a song. The way I see songs, they are the expressions > >of the angel himself, he's reciting his own essence - How can someone > >actually *fail*? > When countered by another Celestial (or even a human for that matter)? > When trying it in a long-shot situation? Even in long-shot situations and/or when facing a celestial, the celestial doesn't fail a song, only the affect of the song is so small that it goes unnoticed. No need for dice there as well. > [A. Nachmias] > >Of course, having a song at level 1 doesn't mean the > >celestial failed, only the effect was so meek, noone noticed it. > But even in RL there are situations where someone who is relatively > unskilled gets lucky. I was talking about songs, not skills. Skills are more problematic. Basically, I think the GM can control and spread luck here and there. > [A. Nachmias] > > Divine/Infernal intervention? You probably ask > >without stating it. Umm, I can picture a scene: The angel tries to > >open a door and gets a 111. Holy christ! God appears as a waiter, > >you can hear heaven's choirs sing loudly, as he open the door for > >you! Amazing? I think not. My point being: Divine/Infernal > >intervention should not be completely random and limited to certain > >significant scenes as the GM sees fit to prevent from ridiculous > >scenes where God/Lucifer helps/damages opening a miserable door, or > >other silly scenes. > Again, I think a bit of randomness is cool... Sure God and Lucifer have > grandiose plans, but we (and even the Celestials) don't know what those > plans are and what is significant to them. Now I agree that your above > situation is a bit ludicrous, but then, I wouldn't call for a die roll in > an automatic action... Randomness? God appearing at a random situation? This is silly. "Oh, hello fellow angels, I kinda stumbled into you and since I'm here, I just as might help you open this door. *Phooo!* *Door opened* *Angels stands awed in front of the awesome power of God in opening doors!*" > As weird as it is, the Over the Edge system did a really good job of > explaining how and when to use dice... They define 3 kinds of action-- > automatic, chancy, or impossible. You only have to roll dice in 1 of those > 3 cases... If an action is automatic-- if there is no way it could fail-- > there is no need to roll dice. You already know it will succeed. If an > action is impossible-- if there is no way it could succeed-- you again > don't need to roll dice. You already know it will fail. The only time you > need to roll dice is if the action is chancy-- if it falls into the middle > somewhere... if it might succeed or might fail... Then you roll the dice as > an impartial bit of randomness... Nice. I may use this. Like, let the players roll the dice every time I'm not absolutely sure what the outcome would be. > [A. Nachmias] > > Dice are bad. Well, mostly bad. I admit some games > >can't be played without the help of randomness, dice. Still, dice, as > >I see it, takes some of the role-playing - When you waste time on > >throwing dice, calculating check-digits, damage points, > >characteristic points lost and so on, you actually waste time where > >you could have developed your character. On the other hand, some play > >more for the battles and less for the role-playing (not munchkins, > >those play only for the battles, and for the +19,000 two handed > >sword, of course. ;-)). > I think it really depends on the situation. True-- you don't want to > overuse the dice. Then you get stuck in a situation where mechanics push > out the story. But having a random element at times can add a lot to the > game-- both for the GM and for the Pcs. Sometimes, having a long-shot pay > off can be beneficial-- swinging things in ways neither the GM nor the > player imagined. Likewise, having a relatively easy task fail also moves > the plot in unplanned for ways. And it can be more fun for the GM if he > doesn't always know how *everything* will turn out. (Come to think of it, > maybe that was the idea behind God granting Free Will-- a chance to relieve > the monotony of omniscience). And see what came of -that-! ;-) Best Regards, A. Nachmias ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 23:14:44 +0000 From: "A. Nachmias" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Hello, > timeline, such as the Morrigan and Samedi out getting plastered and Eris > and St. Gulick giving wedgies to Dominic and Asmodeus. Needless to say, Eris goddess/AA of discord? Best Regards, A. Nachmias ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:43:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> IN Brasil > Ok, you made me do it... > > IN BRASIL Denariel as a Lilim of Technology with the Role of Mr. Tuttle. Ow! Ow! Ow! All, right I'll stop. > Coming Soon. > > Andre, D.P. ):-9 Oops da Ogre, looking forward to it mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:36:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing > You'd think he could have resonated that they weren't being honest... I think that it would take a very high check digit to tell when someone told the truth, but left things out. It's not telling a falsehood... > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor Oops da Ogre, seraphim can tell when you lie, not edit- or has that changed? mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:21:49 -0700 (PDT) From: lugaid@seanet.com Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing On 1997-10-23 in_nomine-l@lists.io.com said to lugaid@seanet.com }John Dye wrote: }> This is my ONE (1) post about Dark Victory. James Blish wrote a }>book, albeit rare, about a sorcerer who summoned all the demons }>of hell he could to earth, no restrictions. It was a very Dark }>Victory. Find it and read it. I believe it was called "Black }Sunday" or some such. }The title was "Black Easter," and there was a sequel, "The Day After }Judgement," which has many haunting parallels to the current }Dark Victory thread. in about 1990, they were both republished in one volume, called _The Devil's Day_... for anyone who hasn't read these, run, don't walk, to your nearest used bookstore and find a copy (or perhaps Borders or Barnes & Noble might have copies sitting in their copious warehouses, just waiting for a special order, such as yours)... James Blish was an amazing writer, and these two were very possibly his best works (save only the short story _More Light_, but as i've said before, i'm a part-time Hastur/King in Yellow cultist ;)... Slan agus Beannachtai, Lugaid MacRobert Courage is fear that has said its prayers. Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #428 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.