From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Nov 7 02:33:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA32518 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 1997 02:33:35 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id BAA10571 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 7 Nov 1997 01:57:23 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 01:57:23 -0600 Message-Id: <199711070757.BAA10571@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #460 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, November 7 1997 Volume 01 : Number 460 In this digest: Re: IN> Fighting and forces IN> [Pagan Victory] Part 1 The Beginning of the End Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction Re: IN> Stat Maxima for NPCs Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction Re: IN> Canon question (was: About Shedim) Re: IN> Yet Another Shedim Problem.... Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction Re: IN> About Shedim Re: IN> Stat Maxima for NPCs Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction IN> Song of Thunder Re: IN> Crunchies... i.e. mortals in combat Re: IN> [DV] The President Re: IN> Canon question (was: About Shedim) Re: IN> Canon question (was: About Shedim) Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction IN> Calabim Resonance IN> Kyrio Telegraph ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 21:43:12 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Fighting and forces Dear Kitty (and List) sorry for the delay, just a few thoughts. >Kitty Wrote >I don't think ALWAYS hitting *or* ALWAYS missing is a sensible default, >actually. I think Fighting should be like any other skill; if you have it >at a sensible level, you should swing and hit sometimes or swing and miss >other times. If you want a combat monster, then you can put 9 into >Strength and 5 into Fighting, to give yourself that Skill 14, Power -1 >(net CD+1) that makes you a major asswhupper. :) > >See what I mean? It's easy enough to build a combat monster without adding >Forces. Adding Forces just makes it hard *not* to build one without making >a very weak character (fighting-wise)...and that serves to seriously >accentuate the differences between the "made for combat" and "average at >combat" celestials. You are right neither models reality well, it just depends how you want your fantasy structured. How ever I disagree about the combat monster status of your example. If Mr EG. takes on Barny the T2 cherub EG is handing out about d6+1 per round, but Barny dodges at about 9 or less subtracting d6 from about 75% of strikes. Since Barny has nearly 70 Body Hits I will leave it to someone else to calculate how long the combat is likely to last. Given the large amount of damage Celestials can take I saw no problem with them being able to hand out large amounts with their bare hands, so I left that part of the rules as written. >BTW, I think one of the integral parts of the NC songs is that they *are* >noticeable. No way I'd let someone take "Iron Fist" in my game...for >angels, I changed Claws to "Smiting Fists"; the hands don't change, but >they GLOW. Noticeably. :) Nice, I talked to one of my players, a Seraph of Gabriel, who wanted a flaming sword about doing it with Claws rather than the artifact of the same name, ut in the end he ran out of points. I guess NC are hard to balance however you do them, but since you don;t have to stick to a formula whatever you and the players can come up with is fine. >I've had a few ideas for Specializations. I'm gonna put 'em in a seperate >message for people who've skipped over this one...let me know what you >think; I think it might cover what you're doing. Had a look, they look okay, but subject to munchkinism, show me a rule that isn't :) . I would be reluctant to introduce then now that my players have all finished character creation, but might consider them for another campaign. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 05:24:03 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: IN> [Pagan Victory] Part 1 The Beginning of the End Sorry fo rthe delay- I had trouble with the dialup connection to the university. Here's the first part of Pagan Victory and it's a bit long. Pagan Victory: Part 1- The Beginning of the End Story Section =========================================================== "...Before there can be a beginning, there must be an end, my friend," Mithras said quietly. Odin nodded, solemn. Despite the best care that the Norns could provide, he felt in his bones that the Yggdrasil was weakening and soon to fall. "I concur, shining one. Observe." The Odin One-Eye pushed gently against the trunk of the ancient ash tree and winced as the World-Tree gave slightly, sending a burst of pain through his frame. Mithras turned away in embarrassment for the leader of the Aesir, noticing motion a distance away. "We have visitors approaching," said the persian god, his appearance nearing his true age despite his youthful body. Privately, he was glad to hear that the time was growing near; he was greatly weakened by the lack of followers and wasn't sure how much longer he could maintain his godhood. Athena and Legba approached the other two deities, making an odd couple. Legba hobbled to a stop with a faint smile and leaned against his staff; Athena sat down next to the venerable loa, setting her spear and the Aegis across her lap. Since the loss of Zeus, she was never without them. "Good day, my friends. How are you doing? I know that times have been difficult on you both, but I trust you are not too unwell." Mithras smiled up at the old man, but Odin merely nodded and rearranged his eyepatch. "What council have you received?", inquired Mithras. "Apollo has declared that the time to avenge the deaths of our family is rapidly approaching. He says that he can see a great struggle ahead, one where a terrible we be initiated by the angels and demons. He suffers greatly, for he sees millions of innocents destroyed by this battle." Legba nodded silently. "Likewise, my associate Orunla and I have been consulting the Tables of Ifa. We are in agreement; there is a great war ahead of us, one which will not be delayed for long." A shadow passed over the assembled gods as a giant bird slowly circled above. Eagle glided quietly down to the the lowermost branches of Yggdrasil to alight. The tree gave under the spirit's weight however, sending a brief stab of pain through Odin's chest. Eagle quickly took flight and landed quietly upon Legba's walking stick. Eagle took a moment to settle himself while the others watched. "I have just come from the realm of the Archangel of Animals. He has been given word by Yves to clear his charges from the places of man as best as he can. He told me this so that we spirits of the 500 Sisters may prepare for the shock ourselves. He is confident that Armageddon is nigh; the warriors of Heaven are preparing for war." The loa sighed. "I must say, it appears that there is no doubt to that. All of our auguries agree with your appraisal." "Pardon me, old man. May I intrude upon your sewing circle long enough to put in my two pence?" A gaunt black man dressed in the black clothing of a gravedigger approached, smiling as he adjusted his sunglasses. "I trust that what you have to say is relevant, Baron?" Baron Samedi grinned sardonically. "Of course, my fearless leader. I would never dream of disturbing such weighty discussions without important news." The loa of the dead tipped his top hat to Athena with a wink as he joined the group. "Ma'am, gentlemen, I thought you might be interested in a tidbit or two I picked up in Hell. "My brothers and I were approached by Saminga for some work. Curious, we agreed to help since every other time that we had done so, the fool had let a comment or two of interest to us slip. It seems that Saminga has been instructed to increase his undead horde in preparation for an offensive against the angels. He needed some assistance to meet the quotas and we were more than happy to oblige." "Now don't glare at me like that, bird. We used the original recipe with all eleven secret herbs and spices. Those undead are loyal to us and bright enough to keep quiet until we need them." Legba sighed. "Thank you, Baron, for the information. Would you now leave us to our business?" "Whatever. Oh yeah. Hey geezer, when you finish up here, stop by. I have a few things we need to talk about too." Chuckling softly to himself, Samedi walked away, singing under his breath. The faintest bit of song wafted back to the others, "It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine." Mithras turned his attention back to the old man and arched an eyebrow quizzically. The chief loa stared back, looking frailer than usual. "I do not believe that there can be any more doubt; it is time to prepare our forces." Mythology 101 =========================================================== Mithras is the persian god of light and defender of humanity. Odin is ruler of the norse gods. Yggdrasil is the norse world-tree. It binds Asgard (heaven), Niflheim (hell), and Midgard (earth) together. At Ragnarok, its roots will have been devoured and the tree will collapse. Athena is the greek warrior goddess of wisdom. She leads the greek pantheon since the fall of Zeus. Legba is the most important loa of Vodoun (Voodoo). He is the Keeper of Gates and the most far-sighted of the vodoun gods. Orunla is the Santeria loa of divination and master of time. He is good friends with Legba and the two often consult and work together on important matters. Baron Samedi is the Vodoun loa of the dead. He is an interesting being, known for his crude behavior, foul language, and his mocking of the pretentious. There are several other spirits sharing similar powers and abilities as him, but are less well-known, such as Baron Cimetie and Gedenibo. This group of spirits consider one another brothers. Timeline =========================================================== Divinations both on earth and elsewhere begin to indicate a great disaster to come. The various gods of prophecy and divination become worried and meet to discuss the future. Supernatural activity on earth increases as the veils between the ethereal realm and the corporeal weaken. Heaven and Hell start gearing up their war efforts at the insistence of Yves and Kronos. Jordi begins to move the wild animals away from likely areas of conflict in the battles to come. Vignette. A call to arms is spread among the pagan gods, creatures, and their followers. The pagan soldiers are directed to certain areas that are expected to be safe during the approaching war. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 05:37:56 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction > How 'bout Pipi Korovu? > (One of my Amber players introduced me to him. He's Polynesian. Huge > butterfly, had lots of wives. I suppose he MIGHT have just been more on > the hero level than a God, per se, but I got the impression he was a > god..) Well, I'll see what I can dig up, although information on polynesian gods is a little harder to find. Any information you have would be appreciated. Oops da Ogre, Pele, of course is in PV... mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 05:35:49 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction > tom, responding to the Anubis story of Pagan Victory: > Coolness. I had one question though. Is it okay if I edit my copy to > read "long jackal's ears." in place of "short hyena's ears."? That was > the only thing I saw that, IMHO, could stand some correction. Many > thanks. Yeah, other than that one typo, it looks pretty good. I'll have to dig out my listing of the various parts of the soul to check on the Ka and Ba, though. It also doesn't really contradict any of the action we have worked out for PV, so it's a keeper IMHO. If you want to write more fluff, feel free, although you may want to email Dotti or myself to check if we have definite plans for the diety in question. > tom timberlake, who also works the night shift. Oops da Ogre, going to bed mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 09:13:06 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Stat Maxima for NPCs > Um, ArchBeth, I hate to break it to you, but there's precedent. _Heaven and > Hell_, p. 110. Beartador only has 16 Forces, and has a stat in excess of 12. > Karne, on p. 101, only has 15 Forces, and has *two* stats in excess of 12. > There's Staciel on p. 95, and Triel on p. 96, and Nurbis on p. 86, as well. > Is this going to be the subject of a lot of errata? > > (Boy, it feels weird to type "*only* has 16 Forces"...) It's in the upcoming FAQ but a ruling from on high is that Superiors _can_ grant favored servitors things outside the normal rules (i.e. NOT to player characters!). They can have powers, forces, attributes and whatnot that PCs (and most NPCs) cannot have. These are very, very rare cases... especially in Hell. Any servitor that powerful is probably a potential rival. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 08:23:53 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction > > tom, responding to the Anubis story of Pagan Victory: > > Coolness. I had one question though. Is it okay if I edit my copy to > > read "long jackal's ears." in place of "short hyena's ears."? That was > > the only thing I saw that, IMHO, could stand some correction. Many > > thanks. Yeah yeah yeah. For some reason, I had little short ears in mind, rather then the long ears. > > Yeah, other than that one typo, it looks pretty good. I'll have to dig > out my listing of the various parts of the soul to check on the Ka and > Ba, though. It also doesn't really contradict any of the action we have > worked out for PV, so it's a keeper IMHO. If you want to write more > fluff, feel free, although you may want to email Dotti or myself to > check if we have definite plans for the diety in question. I went home and pulled out the almost completely unreadable but wonderfully accurate Egyptian Religion by Lorenz last night. Unfortunately I left it sitting on the couch before I walked out the door. The Kaa? gets to go on the journey to the underworld, get it's heart weighted, yadda, while the Baa? gets to go to "heaven". The Akhet usually ascends to the West to join the ancestors in the sky, although that gets really downplayed. Anubis, himself, is an interesting character, even if he is an extremely minor little Godling. Like most Egyptian Dieties, he has all the personality of a loaf of moldy bread. But, he gets to cover Dying, Death, and Embalming, and the people involved. Interesting, because Osiris is *not* the God of the actual act of Death, but he is a King of the Realm of Am Duat. It's an interesting distinction. Anubis gets them to the Judging room, and after that, he's off. As for me writing, - no offense - but I'm not actually contributing to anyone's universe, other then satisfying a greedy, selfish need to get it out of my system and into the world, lest it drive me bonkers. If I post, and you like it, great, fantastic. If I do, and you hate it, also great, fantastic. That's just my way. :) (God help me if something I do is *canon*.) - - Em, Wacky Balseraph ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 09:15:34 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Canon question (was: About Shedim) > Okay, when a Shedim just leaves a host without getting into a new one, he > goes Celestial, makes a big ripple, and can be spotted. That's a > nobrainer. > > BUT, when a Shedim just possesses another host while still in a human > body; i.e., jumps into another mundane; is it visible? Does it cause a > ripple? Basically, does the Shedim go celestial, THEN jump into a new > host, or does he leap from host to host without actually being Celestial? > If the former, does that mean it takes two actions, or one? What we've been working with is that you can skip between hosts without going celestial in-between with no Disturbance. This May Change, but it's official for now. (One action, btw) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 09:08:06 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Yet Another Shedim Problem.... On Nov 5, 2:11pm, Michael C. Nutt wrote: > Subject: IN> Yet Another Shedim Problem.... > ArchBeth, I *think* I may have something here that calls for an Official > Line Editor ruling, or at the least a "clarification" in the Errata. > > Point the first: Shedim can only possess humans... not animals, and not > celestial Vessels. > > Point the second: Humans do not possess Discord as such. They can *act* in > certain ways, but they aren't considered to have Discord like a celestials do. > > Here's the problem. IN core book, p. 168, "Shedim of Gluttony": "The Shedim > who serve Haagenti may add the level of a person's Corporeal Discord to any > roll made against him as a host. And if the host is Gluttonous, his > resistance rolls are reduced by the demon's Corporeal Forces!" The way I've been handling it is, yes, humans don't have discord (which indicates a flaw in their spiritual character) but they _can_ have disadvantages that have the same effects of various discords. Whenever you see a reference to a human having a discord like in this case, just replace discord with 'disadvantage' and it should be okay. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:39:06 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction > tom, responding to the Anubis story of Pagan Victory: > Coolness. I had one question though. Is it okay if I edit my copy to > read "long jackal's ears." in place of "short hyena's ears."? That was > the only thing I saw that, IMHO, could stand some correction. Many > thanks. > > tom timberlake, who also works the night shift. Go forth and edit, mighty one! And I believe you need to cough up the tight leather and the chocolate. :) - - Em, Demon of Wacky Balseraph Madness! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:30:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim >> Anyway, according to p.152, Shedim manifest in their celestial forms when >> leaving a host, and any reasonably perceptive angels ought to notice this >> (mechanics on p. 53... basically, it boils down to Perception + Shedim's >> Celestial Forces + 2 for the needed roll to see him leave the host). If you >> allow the Shedite to attempt to posess another host on the same round that >> he leaves the old one (which *I* wouldn't do, but there doesn't seem to be >> canon answer either way), he's still got, in the example you gave above with >> a Will of 10, a 1 in 6 chance of failing to possess the new host if he's at >> least 10 yards away (-1 for distance). Not a guaranteed shot by any means. > >Okay, when a Shedim just leaves a host without getting into a new one, he >goes Celestial, makes a big ripple, and can be spotted. That's a >nobrainer. > >BUT, when a Shedim just possesses another host while still in a human >body; i.e., jumps into another mundane; is it visible? Does it cause a >ripple? Basically, does the Shedim go celestial, THEN jump into a new >host, or does he leap from host to host without actually being Celestial? >If the former, does that mean it takes two actions, or one? > >Answers would be greatly appreciated. See p. 152, IN core rulebook, last two paragraphs of the right column. He *can't* possess another host while still in the first body... Shedim aren't allowed the multiplicity that Kyriotates are. He's got to bail out of the first one, and then look around for the new host. As a GM, *I'd* rule that you can't go from host to host on the same round, based on the Combat Summary on p. 68. I'd say that "abandoning the current host" would come in step 3, "taking an action", where occupying another one is a resonance usage, which has to be done in step 1. Michael Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 10:53:05 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Stat Maxima for NPCs On Nov 6, 9:13am, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Stat Maxima for NPCs > > Um, ArchBeth, I hate to break it to you, but there's precedent. _Heaven and > > Hell_, p. 110. Beartador only has 16 Forces, and has a stat in excess of 12. > > Karne, on p. 101, only has 15 Forces, and has *two* stats in excess of 12. > > There's Staciel on p. 95, and Triel on p. 96, and Nurbis on p. 86, as well. > > Is this going to be the subject of a lot of errata? > > > > (Boy, it feels weird to type "*only* has 16 Forces"...) > > It's in the upcoming FAQ but a ruling from on high is that > Superiors _can_ grant favored servitors things outside the normal > rules (i.e. NOT to player characters!). They can have powers, forces, > attributes and whatnot that PCs (and most NPCs) cannot have. These > are very, very rare cases... especially in Hell. Any servitor that > powerful is probably a potential rival. Just a followup... Most examples that have been seen should NOT have been that high. Whoops! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:02:42 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction > Please add Thoth, as long as we're doing Egyptians, and Athena. > > Earl > I totally left my gear at home, so I apologize beforehand. But I think I can think of something to make up. ************* He pulled the long ostrich feather through his long thin fingers, as the human servant bowed in the doorway behind him. The hard stem seemed frail in his hand. "The fighting has been taken to the front door of the Arcology," said Muhammad al-Qudif. "I am afraid the priests will not be able to keep the doors closed forever. They are, after all, only priests, and even their magic cannot keep out the forces of the Unlawful forever. What is it you advise, Lord of the Moon?" He placed the feather on the long mahogany table beside him. He slowly reached into the bowl of soaked dates which lay in the center, and lifted one out. After some dark contemplation, he carefully knelt down and fed the date to the small baboon which was free in the corner of the room. The animal took it, and made some greatful sounds at the sweet treat. "The Invisible One will come to those who are truly pious," he said, as his two sharp black birdlike eyes watched the animal in the corner with detacted interest. "Tell them the word has gone out. The Lord of Breath will give them power, and bring forth his troops onto the battle field this day. They must believe in my son, the Amann, for his is the Lord of Victory. They must believe they are right." He turns slowly to the human servant. "We are of the Black Land. We will die for the Black Land. We will be victorious, for the Knowledge must be protected." Muhammad al-Qudif bowed again to his god. "Your words are Wise, Lord of Time. I will bring them to the scribes and those who defend them. Live in Stability, Great One." The human turned and was gone. The God of the Moon leaned forward, and patted the baboon affectionately on the head as he stood. He had his doubts about the appearance of the Invisible One, off fighting so many battles in so many places. Amann had been weakened after so many millenia of his temples falling to ruin, and the worshippers lax. He needed to a new Horus to carry the word and banner of the Black Land, and there was none forthcoming. When the fighting began, Thoth had appealed to the Gods of the Sky, the Air, and the Ground, but they were silent as always, keeping their own council as they always had. Then he had gone to the oldest of advisors. Ptah had motioned his head as Thoth begged for guidance, and the old God had nodded his head towards his potters wheel. "Even the pottery must eventually come to ash, Timeless One," the old God had said. "Even you, who were self created from the Nothingness before the Land was, know this, and know that this too is your fate." There was no help there, not now. As for the Ennead, he could only support them so much, as long as there was no Horus yet born. They would fight childishly among themselves as they always had, and then whine to the Sun for guidance. They were different, changed by a mankind who worshipped them as sources of power instead of pillars of stability. Judge for them, give close council to them, yes. But fight their battles, he had his doubts, and his own battles as well. "You did not speak in Truth to the human, and he will invariably take it to the other humans," came a sweet, low female voice from across the room. Thoth lifted his beaked head to see the cloaked figure of his life mate. "For speaking an UnTruth brings Disharmony, and in Chaos we will surely lose this battle, and all others following. Our son will not come to them with his troops, not soon enough, surely." She walked over to stand near him, and lifted the feather from the table. She ran it slowly through her fingers, and then reached up to entwine it in her hair. "Even my heart, at this black time, is filled with lead." He came to her, and placed a hand upon her shoulder. "The humans are brave. They give their lives to preserve the Knowledge within the Arcology, and they are not warriors. They are priests, and their weapon is the pen. Hope will calm their hearts of all doubt as they go to the heavens. It is these concessions we make." The building shook with an explosion. Both dieties reached out to grab the edge of the mahogany temple to keep upright. Thoth walked over to the large panel windows along the side of the room, and gazed out through his dark eyes at the destruction and the battle. He shook his head sadly, wondering how mankind could have allowed themselvse to come to such a disharmonious state. He felt his lifemate at his elbow, the female aspect of his own Trinity. "Chaos," she said. "Lawlessness. No truth to their speech." And Ma'at shook her head. "I knew it would someday come to this, even as our influence waxed and waned as Khonsu's light." She looked at Thoth. "Is this what you saw, Wise One, in your visions as you created yourself at the beginning of Time?" He stared at the losses, and his heart felt heavy. Even as he knew his priests were hiding the long magical tomes, the heavy books of Knowledge deep within the catecombs beneath the Arcology, which he himself would seal to protect that within until this had passed, he wondered if there would be anyone after this enormous War worth teaching. So many of his priests would have passed on to the final land. "I had told Osiris, as he dwelt in his Shadowy Realm of Death, that one day a Great Judgement would come upon the world. And as all humans will pass through to the Am Duat, so will Judgement come to ourselves, the Gods. And then we too will face the Weighing, and be Judged. I saw this, and I fear it still, even as I will be the last to pass when the unverse ends. But..." he peered out at the dying sunlight, and over the ground which was heavily soaked with blood, "as I saw the End in the Beginning, I did not see this. My dearest lifemate, I do not believe this is the end, but only a new beginning." ************ Couple of quicky notes, and then I'm off. * Thoth (Dhwty) translates directly to "Messenger". He is often depicted as the God of Wisdom, Magic, the Moon, Time, and Knowledge. He was self-created at the Beginning of the universe, even before Ptah had created the Land or the Sun (Re'), pre-Thebian. Post-Thebian, he becomes the Son of Re'. * Amann translates directly to "The Invisible One". He is the God of Formlessness in the Middle Kingdom. In the Thebian era, he was merged with Re' to become Amann-Re', King of the Gods and Father of the Horus, the King. * Thoth is part of the Ogdoad line of trinities. In this case, his lineage is: Thoth + Ma'at (Truth) | Amann + Mut (Mother) | Khonsu (Moon) So he is the Wisdom + Truth = All Things (Amann). Get it? GET IT! It's WACKY EGYPTIAN PUNNING! Those wacky Egyptians, making things difficult for the rest of us. There's even more! The air + the sky (Mut) = The Moon! A barrel of laughs, even when they're religious. * Ma'at, is often used as a verb, a noun, an adjective and a fruit as much as a Goddess. She's usually refered to as the Daughter of the Sun (Re'). * No one says the Ogdoad (Ptah/Re/Thoth/Maat/Amann/Mut/et al) which is very Memphis Middle Kingdom Era, gets along with the Ennead (Osiris/Isis/Nepthys/Horus/Set/ et al), who is very Thebian. Considering how much past war went on between the Upper and Lower Egypt, no big surprise. * In the Papyrus of Ani, Book 125 of the Prt m Hrw (The Book of Coming Forth by Day, or the Book of the Dead) we see the scene before us... Ani is lead by the hand to the Judging Room by Anubis. Before him is a pair of scales. On one side is his heart (in the form of a red ib, a small jar) and on the other is the feather of Truth, the Ma'at ostrich feather. Standing beneath the scales is Apep, the Devourer of Souls, who is hoping that Ani's a liar and therefore nice and tastee. Off to the side stands Thoth, with his pen and paper, writing down the Judgement. Osiris sits in the throne in the back of the room, taking a snooze, as Isis (the throne) and Nepthys (the Pillar) stand behind him, looking faintly bored. No one actually PASSES Judgement, as Ani will do it all by himself when his heart is weighed. This is the Weighting of the Heart Ceremony. It's a big deal, since there was a closet industry in Egypt for a while to crank out scarabs with Chapter 31b written on them. The idea is that the scarab would transform into your heart, and take it's place on the scales. As a magical construct, it would always balance with Truth, and thus get you in scott free into the Am Duat, even if you were a sleeze. * And I'm using Horus in his human avatar aspect. The King had five names, one of which is his "Golden Horus" name. The terms for the Horus and the King are interchangeable... which makes perfect sense. He was the King, the child born of Gods, Son of Isis, and Amann, and Everyone Else. He's the one who looks after the Black Land's interests, and carries the standard, and kicks butt. - - Em, Happy Fun Balseraph! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 12:28:12 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Song of Thunder >>>You may also want to remember that the Song of Thunder does damage on all 3 levels of reality without the victim or the performer having to go Etherial or Celestial.<<< Umm, no. The Song of Thunder doesn't actually do any damage. True, it would STUN a Shedite just like anyone else. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 12:55:56 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Crunchies... i.e. mortals in combat On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Keith Phemister wrote: > I can't remember who proposed the idea, but I've run through a few damage > scenarios based on the concept of having "normal" humans' body score based > on Vessel X Strength rather than Vessel X (Strength + Corporeal Forces) and > came up with the following stats; Um, I don't know where you're getting those. IN rules are hit points (human) = Corp Forces x Strength Toughness is available for 4 point/level; each level (max 2) adds to Corp Forces. THe original rules were kind of sketchy; fortunately, the errata clarified this. > Strength 1 Human with 1 Corp force = 3 body by the alternate method, 6 body > by IN rules (invalid, extremly young or old) 1 body by IN rules. > Strength 3 Human with 1 Corp force = 9 body by the alternate method, 12 > body by IN rules (weak, couch potato) 3 body by IN rules. > Strength 6 Human with 2 Corp force = 18 body by the alternate method, 24 > body by IN rules (tough guy, works out) 12 body by IN rules. > Strength 8 Human with 2 Corp force = 24 body by the alternate method, 30 > body by IN rules (Professional Athelete, or soldier) 16 body by IN rules. > Strength 10 Human with 2 Corp force = 30 body by the alternate method, 36 > body by IN rules (Ahnoldt, da Turmunator) 20 body by IN rules. Note that it's more likely that anyone with 10 Strength would have 3 Corp forces. If you wanna look at the MOST a person could ever have... Strength 10 Human with 3 Corp forces and 2 levels Toughness: 50 body. More than the average Celestial, even. Of course, the chances of *EVER* seeing a human like that is next to nothing.... > I'm using 2 Corporeal forces as my benchmark by assuming that the > aforementioned crun... err. Humans only have 4 total forces anyway. So, Humans have 5 Forces. 4 is for less-than-average humans. 3 is for pathetic humans. > Just some thoughts.... (before anyone starts the flames, please give me a > moment to put on my marshmallow suit...) Not a flame, just a clarification. You may want to rethink things based on the actual numbers. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! - -= Windows 95 =- A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 13:45:57 -0500 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> [DV] The President At 17:02 -0600 11/3/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >Well, there's at least -two- claimants to the Confederate government. One >holds Montgomery and Birmingham, Alabama, and not much else; the other is >helping turn Richmond, Virginia into a bombed-out ruin. (I'm waiting for >more info on the guy who volunteered to do Virginia... I liked what he had >when I saw it...) Cool. I would've had it done by now but I came down with a bad neck injury Monday morning and I'm just now really recovered. If all goes well at work today it should be done by the end of the day. Of course, if all goes as usual...oh well. SeanMike - -- SeanMike Whipkey (smw4s@virginia.edu) is: The Grinning Impudite of Andrealphus, Captain of Diabolical Delight South Republican Green Mamba Heavy Gear Pilot/Wetlander UVA Government Major/VP Paintball Club/GWAR Cyberslave/Pep Band Drummer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 18:37:39 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Canon question (was: About Shedim) > > Okay, when a Shedim just leaves a host without getting into a new one, he > > goes Celestial, makes a big ripple, and can be spotted. That's a > > nobrainer. > > What we've been working with is that you can skip between > hosts without going celestial in-between with no Disturbance. > This May Change, but it's official for now. (One action, btw) Well, it was more a suggestion for people who think Shedim are in danger of being abusively powerful. Though if it ended up in canon, I wouldn't be complaining... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 19:03:07 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Canon question (was: About Shedim) On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > BUT, when a Shedim just possesses another host while still in a human > > body; i.e., jumps into another mundane; is it visible? Does it cause a > > ripple? Basically, does the Shedim go celestial, THEN jump into a new > > host, or does he leap from host to host without actually being Celestial? > > If the former, does that mean it takes two actions, or one? > > What we've been working with is that you can skip between > hosts without going celestial in-between with no Disturbance. > This May Change, but it's official for now. (One action, btw) That's what I thought. Okay, do YOU have any idea on how to stop a Shedim in a crowded room then? Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! - -= Windows 95 =- A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 22:23:45 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction > > Please add Thoth, as long as we're doing Egyptians, and Athena. > This is the Weighting of the Heart Ceremony. It's a big deal, since there > was a closet industry in Egypt for a while to crank out scarabs with > Chapter 31b written on them. The idea is that the scarab would transform > into your heart, and take it's place on the scales. As a magical > construct, it would always balance with Truth, and thus get you in scott > free into the Am Duat, even if you were a sleeze. One thing you've GOT to love about the Egyptians. "Do thou behave. Or, here are the cheat codes." ("No, really, man, when you get to the Paths of the Dead, type in Alt-42 and you get the ultimate weapon and unlimited hitpoints..") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 17:44:13 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Calabim Resonance Dear List Is the Calabim resonance effected by the target's armour? Is the damage caused by it reduced by the Corporeal Song of Form? Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 17:44:11 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Kyrio Telegraph Dear List over the last few sessions the two Kyrios in my FTF campaign have developed what has become referred to as the Kyrio Telegraph. It started from them wanting to keep track of several things at once and so possessing several pigeons and having them positioned at certain places or follow certain people. When the players split up the Kyrios would keep a pigeon with each group, as much as possible. This allowed messages to be sent between the groups instantaneously, or as fast as the pigeon hosts could convey them, originally by scratching them in the dirt and in a couple of instances by the use of ouija boards. Since one of the Kyrios is a Servitor of Jean he often possesses the Ouija board's planchet or a handy phone. The latest development is that several angels are obtaining small electronic organisers, with keyboards, on which the pigeons can tap out text messages. Just thought someone might be interested, thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #460 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.