From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 17 15:55:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06165 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:55:52 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA06524 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:14:18 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:14:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199711172114.PAA06524@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #476 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 17 1997 Volume 01 : Number 476 In this digest: Re: IN> Archangel relations IN> Summary request Re: IN> Seed: Truth is Stranger than Fiction... Re: IN> Superior's Hearts Re: IN> Superior's Hearts Re: IN> Couple of Questions... Re: IN> Seed: Truth is Stranger than Fiction... Re: IN> Seed: Truth is Stranger than F(r)iction... Re: IN> Superior's Hearts Re: IN> GM's Guide Re: IN> Superior's Hearts Re: IN> Superior's Hearts Re: IN> Seed: Truth is Stranger than F(r)iction... Re: IN> Superior's Hearts Re: IN> Superior's Hearts Re: IN> [DV] Progress Report Re: IN> Couple of Questions... Re: IN> Archangel relations Re: IN> Superior's Hearts IN> Re: IN- New Prince. Sort of. Re: IN> Superior's Hearts IN> Song of Imbuement... Re: IN> [DV] Progress Report Re: IN> Song of Imbuement... Re: IN> Superior's Hearts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:48:09 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Archangel relations On Nov 17, 5:22pm, Sam Kington wrote: > Subject: IN> Archangel relations > Hi, > > Something that struck me today: the "Relations" section in each > Archangel's write-up (Demon Princes as well) makes little sense. David > is listed as Allied to Gabriel and Michael, Associated with Jean, Jordi > and Laurence, and hostile to Marc. Gabriel is *neutral* to David, > though, and Michael is just associated; Jean and Jordi are neutral, > whereas Laurence is listed as allied; Marc is neutral as well. Of the > Archangels unlisted (and therefore those David is neutral towards), > Blandine and Novalis are hostile, Dominic, Eli are neutral, Janus is > allied. So, out of the 11 Archangels, only two have the same attitude to > David as he does to them. Those connections are _supposed_ to be unequal. In a sense, those categories are mislabeled. They are more indicative of how an AA feels about his/her fellow AAs. David helps out Gabriel and her servitors when he can, but she doesn't return the favor usually, etc. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:48:51 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: IN> Summary request I have a minor problem. Of the IN books out there now, there's one that I know I'm never going to pick up (The Marches). I know what it covers, and none of it interests me...except for the two Superiors. Being the only person who buys IN books in town, I'm not going to get a chance to look at the writeups either. So, a request that I hope isn't too much. Could anyone give me a very brief summary of the writeups and their attunements? I don't want any copyrights violated, but it'd be nice to have just enough info to use the Superiors in my game (I've got an incoming player that was really interested in the demonic one in particular). And I promise that this minor act of getting-something-for-nothing will be (and has been) made up for by my buying alllllll the other IN stuff that I find useful or interesting (which basically includes everything else :). Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! - -= Windows 95 =- A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:59:47 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Seed: Truth is Stranger than Fiction... Coolness... Need to check on the costs and attribute levels, though. Fer example, George Smith has 2 Ethereal forces... I get the feeling that the Lilim would be likely to toy with the idea of Redeeming long enough to get useful info and then hightail back to Hell! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:01:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts At 1:27 PM -0500 11/17/97, Emily Dresner wrote: >While I like the Cathedrals as Hearts idea, I'm having a few problems with >it. > >Angel Side: > >* The Cathedrals of Fallen/Dead Archangels still stand, although >abandoned. This is explicitly stated in the main source book. Does that >mean if say, (for example) Kronos once had a Cathedral in Heaven, he now >has a "Heart" that is empty and abandoned from the Fall? And is it all >cracked and black and nasty? (Oooh, I like this, actually.) Lucifer's Cathedral still stands, yes. With a black crack running through it. Say that Cathedral/Hearts are just more sturdy than the usual kind. >* What about areas where multiple people share the same part of a realm? >If I remember correctly, Janus, Michael and David all share the Groves as >their main spot. Do they share chunks of it for their hearts? Sure! David has the catacombs, Janus gets the treetops, and Mikey runs around playing warrior on the surface. >* Is it possible to stand in an ArchAngel's designated area, and summon up >your archangel is they are loitering around on Earth? If so, why does >everyone have such a pain locating Eli? Obviously it's *not* possible to do that -- they aren't wimpy little Servitor Hearts, they're areas of Heaven that have a mystic link with the Archangel, where the Archangel will return to if he gets his vessel toasted (such as in the fight with Legion). But like standing at a Tether, it might be *easier* to call for your boss... >Demon side: There, it gets stickier. Obviously, Hell is a much more... superficial place than Heaven. Principalities can be taken over and "re-consecrated" to a Prince, probably, with few side-effects... But maybe that's why Princes do a lot of construction and stuff -- making sure that their flickering "Hearts" aren't being contaminated by anyone else's will... >So those are my questions. I wait with baited breath. *breathe* Baited with what? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:28:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts At 1:45 PM -0500 11/17/97, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >Okay, cool. (urk, now I've got the cool flu, too) >What about celestials who have risen -to- the station of demon prince or >archangel? Haagenti or Laurence for example. > >Perhaps upon attaining this status their heart shatters. The title >of Prince or Archangel is much more than a title, it seems. It carries >with it a great deal more power than mere political power... I wouldn't say "shatters," though -- I'd go around saying something like, "Expands and vaporizes in a blaze of glory as the Power of the celestial grows beyond the ability of the Heart to contain. The Heart is now a *concept*, and the celestial shall stake out a patch of the celestial realm to build that concept upon, gaining the same sense of love and worth from his Cathedral/Principality as he once sensed from his Heart." Yes, Prince and Archangel are more than just titles. It's a word for a quantum leap in power. For a state-change. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:03:32 +0000 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Couple of Questions... Archangel Beth wrote:- > At 7:47 AM +1100 11/12/97, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > >> >2. Both of Zadkiel's Servitor Attunement's refer to the check digit. > >> >What's the target number? The Angel's resonance? I thought Attunements > >> >didn't require a d666 roll. > >> > >> They don't, usually -- just roll the check digit. > > > > Hmm... seems clumsy. I'd be happier if it was based off the angel's > >Forces. Oh well. > > Instead of a check digit? Interesting notion. I'll remember it for > future reference. Thanks. Yeah, I thought that too; how about equal to Ethereal Forces or perhaps *double* ethereal forces perchance? As to the idea that Celestials also have Fates and Destinies, I *like* it lots. As to whether the Servitor attunements of Kronos and Yves would pick up on them, I'm not entirely sure on that one about how much info you would get from them. And as for the Humanity Attunement... *oy*! Methinks a section on this attunement should be made space for in the Demoinic Players Guide, or perhaps in an In Nomine GM's Guide should one ever be considred for printing? Perhaps an entire section on the whole question of how the Meta-attunements of In Nomine react when mixed together, in general of in some cases specific terms might be deemed approriate, for the benefit of those IN GMs *not* on the IN list. Be seeing you... David. PS: This is the OTHER Other other David, btw... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:45:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seed: Truth is Stranger than Fiction... At 1:59 PM -0500 11/17/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Coolness... Need to check on the costs and attribute levels, >though. Fer example, George Smith has 2 Ethereal forces... Right, right, lemme fix... Corporeal 0 Ethereal 2, Intelligence 4, Precision 4 Celestial 1, Will 2, Perception 2 And some extra points in skills, from when he was a 5 Force human. (He's occasionally cunning comic relief, so I'm not going to sweat his skills...) > I get the feeling that the Lilim would be likely to >toy with the idea of Redeeming long enough to get useful info >and then hightail back to Hell! ;) Hey, you plays your demons the way you wants to. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:33:30 -0600 (CST) From: "Austin G. Loomis" Subject: Re: IN> Seed: Truth is Stranger than F(r)iction... One minor quibble, Beth. Remember, not everyone has IO access, so they haven't all seen the writeup on the Song of Affinity. (In particular, not everyone is hatted as LE, obviously...) (Short form of this taste of the Librum Reliquarium: the Songs of Affinity work like the Celestial Song of Attraction or the Cherub/Djinn resonance, but the subject of the Song doesn't have to be present for the singing, just something associated with him. Corporeal can use a piece of a non- living being to track down the rest [the undead count as non-living for purposes of this Song]; Ethereal can use a piece of a living being's body [usually something like nails or hair] to track the guy; Celestial can track a being from what it has created. Alternatively, you could replace it with Cel. Attraction...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:39:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts > Is it possible to stand in an ArchAngel's designated area, and > summon up your archangel is they are loitering around on Earth? If > so, why does everyone have such a pain locating Eli? On the Cathedral = Heart model, the simplest solution is that, while Superiors can do that with servitor hearts, Superior hearts can't be used that way, including Eli's. A more amusing idea is that, ever since Eli went walkabout, his Cathedral, his chunk of Heaven, is simply MISSING, off the map. Go where you last left it and find some nice cloud formations. Or a mirage of it you can never approach, like the rainbow's end. We've been told quite clearly that Heaven doesn't obey conventional geometry, after all. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:26:00 +0000 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> GM's Guide John Karakash said: > On Nov 11, 12:01pm, Jesse Rooney wrote: > > Subject: IN> GM's Guide > > >Attention SJG: Player's guides are great, but I don't think I'm alone in > > >wanting a GM's guide that gives guidelines for Wording, Archangel creation, > > >and Rite, Song and Attunement creation... > > > > Heck folks at SJG, I'll volunteer to write the book! Get to the back of the Goddamned (sic) queue sonny-jim... > > There is a line of people drooling over parts of the book > already (I'm drooling too...) ;) > Calm yourself, John, or we may have to tie you down and conduct Vapulan experiments upon you in the name of Absolute Evil (tm). Talk about a pre-emptive stike though... I just asked such a question to the list in general just a few moments before... *shrug* Be seeing you... David. PS:- That's the OTHER Other other David, btw... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:39:32 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts >* The Cathedrals of Fallen/Dead Archangels still stand, although >abandoned. This is explicitly stated in the main source book. Does that >mean if say, (for example) Kronos once had a Cathedral in Heaven, he now >has a "Heart" that is empty and abandoned from the Fall? And is it all >cracked and black and nasty? (Oooh, I like this, actually.) This fits in with current canon, actually. Lucifer's Cathedral is still in Heaven, with a hairline crack in it... Superior's Hearts don't shatter when they fall. They mourn. And considering the nature of Kronos and Yves, the trick to their Hearts is perhaps a little more complicated than most... >* Is it possible to stand in an ArchAngel's designated area, and summon up >your archangel is they are loitering around on Earth? If so, why does >everyone have such a pain locating Eli? You can't summon a servitor with his Heart, just track him. So, too, with Superiors. So, why can't anyone track Eli. Well, they can -- if they try hard enough. One has to use the Master Plan in just the *right* way... -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:50:35 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > *try to reach for the LE hat* Yeah, okay, cool. > >Angel Side: > > > >* The Cathedrals of Fallen/Dead Archangels still stand, although > >abandoned. This is explicitly stated in the main source book. Does that > >mean if say, (for example) Kronos once had a Cathedral in Heaven, he now > >has a "Heart" that is empty and abandoned from the Fall? And is it all > >cracked and black and nasty? (Oooh, I like this, actually.) > > Lucifer's Cathedral still stands, yes. With a black crack running > through it. Say that Cathedral/Hearts are just more sturdy than the > usual kind. It's an interesting concept. How many of the Demon Princes were once ArchAngels, besides Lucifer? Andre? Beleth, I believe. On top of "dead" or "disappeared" ArchAngels, is Heaven littered with empty Cathedrals? And.... can people DO things in the cracked and dead Cathedrals? (I know, in my game, I have one for Raphael. You can see it from the Eternal City, but only on the horizon. And yes, you can do weird things in it. But my player characters haven't gone there yet. Which is good, because my details suck.) > > >* What about areas where multiple people share the same part of a realm? > >If I remember correctly, Janus, Michael and David all share the Groves as > >their main spot. Do they share chunks of it for their hearts? > > Sure! David has the catacombs, Janus gets the treetops, and Mikey > runs around playing warrior on the surface. This has got to be in Heaven and Hell. Which I don't own, because I'm a weenie. Do they know at what point their Hearts stop, and new ones start? > > >* Is it possible to stand in an ArchAngel's designated area, and summon up > >your archangel is they are loitering around on Earth? If so, why does > >everyone have such a pain locating Eli? > > Obviously it's *not* possible to do that -- they aren't wimpy little > Servitor Hearts, they're areas of Heaven that have a mystic link with > the Archangel, where the Archangel will return to if he gets his > vessel toasted (such as in the fight with Legion). But like standing > at a Tether, it might be *easier* to call for your boss... That's an interesting point, because this implies that a servant in heaven has quick and easy access to their Superior. Which is not always the case, as implied by some of the superior writeups. Gabriel is rarely in her Cathedral, since she prefers to be wandering around Earth. It's logical, but I can see my players abusing this. That's what bothers me. "Eli is missing, so I'll stand in his Cathedral and scream until he shows up." And that bothers me, but I suppose it's how it should work. > > >Demon side: > > There, it gets stickier. Obviously, Hell is a much more... superficial > place than Heaven. Principalities can be taken over and "re-consecrated" > to a Prince, probably, with few side-effects... But maybe that's why > Princes do a lot of construction and stuff -- making sure that their > flickering "Hearts" aren't being contaminated by anyone else's will... So what happens to the old Hearts? This is assuming that Demon Princes come and go. Do they just get very small and shrivelled? Do they disappear completely? It's not like Hell is litered with spare Principalities. > > >So those are my questions. I wait with baited breath. *breathe* > > Baited with what? The onions off my egg salad sammich at lunch. Mmmmm... egg salad. > > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > - - Em, Feelin Goofy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:04:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seed: Truth is Stranger than F(r)iction... At 1:33 PM -0600 11/17/97, Austin G. Loomis wrote: >One minor quibble, Beth. Remember, not everyone has IO access, so they >haven't all seen the writeup on the Song of Affinity. (In particular, >not everyone is hatted as LE, obviously...) Oh, feh. It's going to be published eventually, don't getcher horses in an uproar. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:53:16 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts > >Okay, cool. (urk, now I've got the cool flu, too) > >What about celestials who have risen -to- the station of demon prince or > >archangel? Haagenti or Laurence for example. > > > >Perhaps upon attaining this status their heart shatters. The title > >of Prince or Archangel is much more than a title, it seems. It carries > >with it a great deal more power than mere political power... > > I wouldn't say "shatters," though -- I'd go around saying something > like, "Expands and vaporizes in a blaze of glory as the Power of the > celestial grows beyond the ability of the Heart to contain. The > Heart is now a *concept*, and the celestial shall stake out a patch > of the celestial realm to build that concept upon, gaining the same > sense of love and worth from his Cathedral/Principality as he once > sensed from his Heart." > > Yes, Prince and Archangel are more than just titles. It's a word > for a quantum leap in power. For a state-change. That is... seriously deep. You get the Gold Star Deep Award for the day. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:04:39 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts > Perhaps upon attaining this status their heart shatters. The title > of Prince or Archangel is much more than a title, it seems. It carries > with it a great deal more power than mere political power... Oh, certainly! AA/DPs can do things that no other celestial can. They are, literally, off the scale in certain areas and are capable in ways that other celestials (or anyone) simply cannot touch. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:08:55 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Progress Report >At 9:35 PM -0600 11/14/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >So, what *did* happen to Zadkiel, the Cherub Archangel of Protection? >(_Heaven & Hell_.) O;> Of course, she's one of the sort who'd have >been likely to have gone down fighting. > >But this looks like a former Servitor of hers. Well, you tell me. I don't own H&H and ain't likely to this year unless you or somebody sends me a Christmas present. }:-{D If you want to write up Zadkiel's Fate in Armageddeon and wossname the new Kyrio Archangel, feel free. I'll scan it for continuity/vision goofs and then likely rubber-stamp it. Redneck (started his new 40-hr-week job today, yay) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 06:11:42 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Couple of Questions... David.Evans wrote: > > >> >2. Both of Zadkiel's Servitor Attunement's refer to the check digit. > > >> >What's the target number? The Angel's resonance? I thought Attunements > > >> >didn't require a d666 roll. > > >> > > >> They don't, usually -- just roll the check digit. > > > > > > Hmm... seems clumsy. I'd be happier if it was based off the angel's > > >Forces. Oh well. > > > > Instead of a check digit? Interesting notion. I'll remember it for > > future reference. Thanks. > > Yeah, I thought that too; how about equal to Ethereal Forces or perhaps > *double* ethereal forces perchance? > Hmmm... double seems too much - the average angel (E forces 3) would have a value equal to the best possible check digit. If one of my players wants to play a servitor of Zadkiel, I might go with Aura being = Cel. Forces and Succor = Corp Forces. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia I don't know what I am, I don't know where I've been Human junk, just words and so much skin Stick my hands through the cage of this endless routine Just some flesh caught in this big broken machine NINE INCH NAILS, "Happiness in Slavery" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:10:56 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Archangel relations >Hi, > >Something that struck me today: the "Relations" section in each >Archangel's write-up (Demon Princes as well) makes little sense. David >is listed as Allied to Gabriel and Michael, Associated with Jean, Jordi >and Laurence, and hostile to Marc. Gabriel is *neutral* to David, >though, and Michael is just associated; Jean and Jordi are neutral, >whereas Laurence is listed as allied; Marc is neutral as well. Of the >Archangels unlisted (and therefore those David is neutral towards), >Blandine and Novalis are hostile, Dominic, Eli are neutral, Janus is >allied. So, out of the 11 Archangels, only two have the same attitude to >David as he does to them. > >This seems to me a bit bizarre, especially concerning allied angels. It >also makes summarising the angelic politics a right pain. > >Any suggestions? > How many people do you know who feel exactly the same way to you that you do to them? People react differently to each other. Deal. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:23:48 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts >> >* What about areas where multiple people share the same part of a realm? >> >If I remember correctly, Janus, Michael and David all share the Groves as >> >their main spot. Do they share chunks of it for their hearts? >> >> Sure! David has the catacombs, Janus gets the treetops, and Mikey >> runs around playing warrior on the surface. > >This has got to be in Heaven and Hell. Which I don't own, because I'm a >weenie. No, actually it's mentioned in the Rulebook. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:25:03 PST From: "Vincent Agnoli" Subject: IN> Re: IN- New Prince. Sort of. I like it! It reminds me of the Malkavians of White Wolf's Vampire. These angels are insane and unpredictable. I think they would be fun to play. And fun to see the PCs run in to one or two. It would take them forever to figure out who these celestials are. And it might drive them insane just trying to figure it out. Vince (New to the list and liking what I see) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:35:54 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts At 2:50 PM -0500 11/17/97, Emily Dresner wrote: >On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> > >*try to reach for the LE hat* >Yeah, okay, cool. > >> >Angel Side: >> > >> >* The Cathedrals of Fallen/Dead Archangels still stand, although >> >abandoned. This is explicitly stated in the main source book. Does that >> >mean if say, (for example) Kronos once had a Cathedral in Heaven, he now >> >has a "Heart" that is empty and abandoned from the Fall? And is it all >> >cracked and black and nasty? (Oooh, I like this, actually.) >> >> Lucifer's Cathedral still stands, yes. With a black crack running >> through it. Say that Cathedral/Hearts are just more sturdy than the >> usual kind. > >It's an interesting concept. How many of the Demon Princes were once >ArchAngels, besides Lucifer? Andre? Beleth, I believe. On top of "dead" >or "disappeared" ArchAngels, is Heaven littered with empty Cathedrals? Yeeeessss.... Well, Beleth used to room with Blandine. Andre? If he was an AA, yes. >And.... can people DO things in the cracked and dead Cathedrals? Yep. Laurence wanders around Uriel's alla time. People conduct assignations in Oannes' Grotto. Nobody hangs around Lucifer's, though, except one very old Elohite, a former Servitor, and Yves. >> >* What about areas where multiple people share the same part of a realm? >> >If I remember correctly, Janus, Michael and David all share the Groves as >> >their main spot. Do they share chunks of it for their hearts? >> >> Sure! David has the catacombs, Janus gets the treetops, and Mikey >> runs around playing warrior on the surface. > >This has got to be in Heaven and Hell. Which I don't own, because I'm a >weenie. > >Do they know at what point their Hearts stop, and new ones start? Oooo, weird.... Sure. Seems reasonable. There's probably little bits of the Groves which don't really belong to *anyone*. >> >* Is it possible to stand in an ArchAngel's designated area, and summon up >> >your archangel is they are loitering around on Earth? If so, why does >> >everyone have such a pain locating Eli? >> >> Obviously it's *not* possible to do that -- they aren't wimpy little >> Servitor Hearts, they're areas of Heaven that have a mystic link with >> the Archangel, where the Archangel will return to if he gets his >> vessel toasted (such as in the fight with Legion). But like standing >> at a Tether, it might be *easier* to call for your boss... > >That's an interesting point, because this implies that a servant in heaven >has quick and easy access to their Superior. Which is not always the >case, as implied by some of the superior writeups. Gabriel is rarely in >her Cathedral, since she prefers to be wandering around Earth. But you can try calling her... "Boss, oh, boss! Are you busy down there?" She may well hear. If she *answers*, though... And some Superiors might get annoyed by that. "Shaddup, take a number and wait in line like everybody else!" >It's logical, but I can see my players abusing this. That's what bothers >me. "Eli is missing, so I'll stand in his Cathedral and scream until he >shows up." And that bothers me, but I suppose it's how it should work. Well, Eli's a special case. If they stand in his Cathedral and scream, they get his Astral Answering Machine: "I'm sorry, I'm out of my mind right now, but if you'll leave your name and location..." >> >Demon side: >> >> There, it gets stickier. Obviously, Hell is a much more... superficial >> place than Heaven. Principalities can be taken over and "re-consecrated" >> to a Prince, probably, with few side-effects... But maybe that's why >> Princes do a lot of construction and stuff -- making sure that their >> flickering "Hearts" aren't being contaminated by anyone else's will... > >So what happens to the old Hearts? This is assuming that Demon Princes >come and go. Do they just get very small and shrivelled? Do they >disappear completely? It's not like Hell is litered with spare >Principalities. >> I wouldn't say "shatters," though -- I'd go around saying something >> like, "Expands and vaporizes in a blaze of glory as the Power of the >> celestial grows beyond the ability of the Heart to contain. The >> Heart is now a *concept*, and the celestial shall stake out a patch >> of the celestial realm to build that concept upon, gaining the same >> sense of love and worth from his Cathedral/Principality as he once >> sensed from his Heart." >> >> Yes, Prince and Archangel are more than just titles. It's a word >> for a quantum leap in power. For a state-change. > >That is... seriously deep. You get the Gold Star Deep Award for the day. Deep into *what*, now that's the question... >> >So those are my questions. I wait with baited breath. *breathe* >> >> Baited with what? > >The onions off my egg salad sammich at lunch. Mmmmm... egg salad. I prefer chocolate, myself. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:14:10 -0500 From: "bruce dykes" Subject: IN> Song of Imbuement... > Subject: IN> [BUFFY] the Slayer Project: The Divine Players > > >Song of Imbuement: > >Corporeal, Ethereal, Celestial > >The Song of Imbuement allows the Celestial to impart one Force of the > >appropriate type to the mortal recipient. > >Cost: 3 essence > >Disturbance: The total number of the mortal's and celestial's forces of the > >appropriate type. > > >just called this up off the cuff. It's probably way underpowered.> > > On the contrary, this seems way too powerful. For three points of > I'd put this song much higher in Essence cost, on the order of > 15-20, or require the Singer to donate one of his Forces of the > appropriate type to the recipient. Or, at least, make it only possible for > a mortal to be the recipient of the Song of Imbuement once. Good ideas all. I mistyped, I *meant* to say "underpriced" not underpowered . I didn't put a whole lot of thought into it as the charcter in question appears only peripherally at most. Also, the impression the books give is that superiors do not personally supervise every binding of forces into undead and soldiers, so characters are likely encounter this song at least once in a campaign, especially if they wind up dealing with and recruiting mortals. With that in mind, I expect SJG will have to come out with an official Song ere too long. It's important enough, and common enough (by RPG standards) that we will need an official version... Bruce Impudite Captain of Cross-Licensing bdykes@intac.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:11:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Progress Report At 2:08 PM -0600 11/17/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>At 9:35 PM -0600 11/14/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >> >>So, what *did* happen to Zadkiel, the Cherub Archangel of Protection? >>(_Heaven & Hell_.) O;> Of course, she's one of the sort who'd have >>been likely to have gone down fighting. >> >>But this looks like a former Servitor of hers. > >Well, you tell me. I don't own H&H and ain't likely to this year unless you >or somebody sends me a Christmas present. }:-{D She probably went down defending Jacob's Ladder, before it got dragged upstairs by the Powers Above. There would be few orphans of hers... >If you want to write up Zadkiel's Fate in Armageddeon and wossname the new >Kyrio Archangel, feel free. I'll scan it for continuity/vision goofs and >then likely rubber-stamp it. Oh, maybe. Gimme a little time to think about it. I'm in a very blah mood today, for some reason. O:p - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:08:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Song of Imbuement... At 3:14 PM -0500 11/17/97, bruce dykes wrote: >> Subject: IN> [BUFFY] the Slayer Project: The Divine Players >> >> >Song of Imbuement: >> >Corporeal, Ethereal, Celestial >> >The Song of Imbuement allows the Celestial to impart one Force of the >> >appropriate type to the mortal recipient. [...] > the impression the books >give is that superiors do not personally supervise every binding of forces >into undead and soldiers, so characters are likely encounter this song at >least once in a campaign, especially if they wind up dealing with and >recruiting mortals. With that in mind, I expect SJG will have to come out >with an official Song ere too long. It's important enough, and common >enough (by RPG standards) that we will need an official version... Hrm? Oh, recruitment. That's in Night Music for Hellsworn, at least... "Giving a mortal a 6th Force requires an Attunement called 'Oathtaking.' Every Demon Prince has it, andit is one of the most common Attunements handed out as a reward. Any Word-bound demon (non-Word-bound demons are incapable of learning Oathtaking) who has served his Prince with a moderate level of distinctino has probably been given this Attunement as a reward." It only works on those who are *capable* of handling 6 Forces, though... Soldiers of God get it from Archangels ("Hey, boss, me and my servant did this really good job -- can you promote him?"), or "through rigorous training and spiritual growth." Again, they need to have the potential. And some humans are just born with 6+ Forces. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:06:22 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Superior's Hearts > >> > > > >*try to reach for the LE hat* > > Hey hey hey, don't mess up the hair. I had to go to a STYLIST for this. :) (Think about the havoc I could cause with that thing! Woooooooo!) I'm just leaving the earlier conversation in, for reference. > >> >* The Cathedrals of Fallen/Dead Archangels still stand, although > >> >abandoned. This is explicitly stated in the main source book. Does that > >> >mean if say, (for example) Kronos once had a Cathedral in Heaven, he now > >> >has a "Heart" that is empty and abandoned from the Fall? And is it all > >> >cracked and black and nasty? (Oooh, I like this, actually.) > >> > >> Lucifer's Cathedral still stands, yes. With a black crack running > >> through it. Say that Cathedral/Hearts are just more sturdy than the > >> usual kind. > > > >It's an interesting concept. How many of the Demon Princes were once > >ArchAngels, besides Lucifer? Andre? Beleth, I believe. On top of "dead" > >or "disappeared" ArchAngels, is Heaven littered with empty Cathedrals? > > Yeeeessss.... Well, Beleth used to room with Blandine. Andre? > If he was an AA, yes. Well, that's interesting. It means Heaven is a bit larger then I originally conceived. Which is fine, I could use my horizons broadening. I don't want to think about Andre's old pad. The entire concept makes my head spin. > > >And.... can people DO things in the cracked and dead Cathedrals? > > Yep. Laurence wanders around Uriel's alla time. People conduct > assignations in Oannes' Grotto. Nobody hangs around Lucifer's, though, > except one very old Elohite, a former Servitor, and Yves. Oannes? And I feel sorry for the former Servitor. Hmmmm. Maybe like holding his spot open at the Seraph Council, they're always hoping that one day Lucifier will rejoin the flock. > > >> >* What about areas where multiple people share the same part of a realm? > >> >If I remember correctly, Janus, Michael and David all share the Groves as > >> >their main spot. Do they share chunks of it for their hearts? > >> > >> Sure! David has the catacombs, Janus gets the treetops, and Mikey > >> runs around playing warrior on the surface. > > > >Do they know at what point their Hearts stop, and new ones start? > > Oooo, weird.... Sure. Seems reasonable. There's probably > little bits of the Groves which don't really belong to *anyone*. I would see this as sort of like the Marches. There are parts of the plane which are charted, well inhabited, and well known. And then there are the OTHER parts... where no one goes. Echos of old rivalries, old friends, and things lost in the mists of time. > >That's an interesting point, because this implies that a servant in heaven > >has quick and easy access to their Superior. Which is not always the > >case, as implied by some of the superior writeups. Gabriel is rarely in > >her Cathedral, since she prefers to be wandering around Earth. > > But you can try calling her... "Boss, oh, boss! Are you busy down there?" > She may well hear. If she *answers*, though... > Who knows. It's Gabriel. She might show up and give the summoning servitor a can of silly string. Or she might give them discord. It's sort of like "The Wheel of Gabe". > And some Superiors might get annoyed by that. "Shaddup, take a number and > wait in line like everybody else!" *cough*Michael*cough* Do YOU want to summon up this guy if he's down on earth slaughtering terrorists in the jungles of Central America? Not I. > >It's logical, but I can see my players abusing this. That's what bothers > >me. "Eli is missing, so I'll stand in his Cathedral and scream until he > >shows up." And that bothers me, but I suppose it's how it should work. > > Well, Eli's a special case. If they stand in his Cathedral and scream, > they get his Astral Answering Machine: "I'm sorry, I'm out of my mind > right now, but if you'll leave your name and location..." Hmmmm. *contemplate* That will work for my game if I implement this. >> > >> I wouldn't say "shatters," though -- I'd go around saying something > >> like, "Expands and vaporizes in a blaze of glory as the Power of the > >> celestial grows beyond the ability of the Heart to contain. The > >> Heart is now a *concept*, and the celestial shall stake out a patch > >> of the celestial realm to build that concept upon, gaining the same > >> sense of love and worth from his Cathedral/Principality as he once > >> sensed from his Heart." > >> > >> Yes, Prince and Archangel are more than just titles. It's a word > >> for a quantum leap in power. For a state-change. > > > >That is... seriously deep. You get the Gold Star Deep Award for the day. > > Deep into *what*, now that's the question... Into, uh, deepness! Hip deep into deepness! Yeah! That's it! > >> >So those are my questions. I wait with baited breath. *breathe* > >> > >> Baited with what? > > > >The onions off my egg salad sammich at lunch. Mmmmm... egg salad. > > I prefer chocolate, myself. Not for lunch. But the comment prompted me to get up and get a cup of hot cocoa. - - Em How can you say, "We are wise and the law of the LORD is with us," when, in fact, the false pens of the scribes has made it into a lie? - Jeremiah 8:8 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #476 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.