From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Dec 3 01:57:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08838 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:57:48 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id BAA07468 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:51:21 -0600 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:51:21 -0600 Message-Id: <199712030751.BAA07468@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #496 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, December 3 1997 Volume 01 : Number 496 In this digest: Re: IN> The 144,000 Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> The 144,000 Re: IN> Seraphim Re: IN> Angels and Souls Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) Re: IN> So who is this God person anyways? IN> [Pagan Victory] PV interlude 2 IN> [Pagan Victory] PV part 2 Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) Re: IN> Seraphim Re: Archangels and Christianity (was Re: IN> Theology) Re: IN> Seraphim Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Kyriotate and Nominous Corpus Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven IN> Archangels and Christianity Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Seraphim IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage IN> Haagenti's Politics [LONG] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:18:06 -0500 From: Jesse Rooney Subject: Re: IN> The 144,000 >>>patron of Venice), or St. David (King David of Bethlehem)> >>David is not a Saint, I should know, I am his father. >>-Jesse > >I think this was a joke, but there actually is a point to it. King David is >only a Saint in the Orthodox tradition; neither the Roman nor the Anglican >tradition lists him in their Haggiographies. Acctually my Biblical namesake (Jesse) was the father of David. And by not being a Saint I meant he was not a Catholic saint. I didn't know the Orthodox had saints. In Catholism you have to be a Christain to be a saint. - -Jesse Ofanite of Tequila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:29:47 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question > > Thanks, no. I'll stick to vap.alt.sex.habbalah.I.can.take.it. > > > > (Just turned 18 yesterday, got my first tattoo today. I'm on a roll, > > folks...) > > What do y'all think: Shedim possession? ;) No - the tattoo isn't something I (at least) would find morally repugnant. But it certainly *looks* fairly demonic... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:02:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The 144,000 Jesse Rooney wrote: > In Catholism you have to be a Christain to be a saint. Technically, any blessed soul is a saint. You don't even have to be human, hence St. Michael and St. Gabriel. But it is true that Old Testament figures are not usually *styled* "saint." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:54:30 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Emily Dresner wrote: > Hee hee hee. Casca's original writeup was rocking, and it lent to a most > amazing yet entertaining little 'discussion', right from Sheol. It -did- sorta put an end to the "Dominic is/is not a Bad Guy" thread, didn't it? ;) > His poor > fashion sense indeed. And I believe Kingsley filled it out with most of > the rational. That was the freaky part: the LintKing making -sense- out of what I said... > Nah, he wears bondage gear. Well, Laurence is into leather, so I suppose they complement each other. Would that make Larry the subbie, since we already have a Dommie? ;;;) > - Em, Avoiding the Deadly Gaze of an Evil Dominic. Of course, now I can't help but use Tim Curry's voice when I imagine Dom speaking.. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 16:05:59 -0500 From: Reverend The Other Chris Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Souls Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > (#1, this was a non-canon thingy -- I was using my other .sig and > forgot to put in the explicit. It's my *personal* belief...) > > Thing is, why would it be "bad" to think that celestials are souls, > same way that humans are souls? Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was "bad" in any way that Angels have souls. I should explain. I've been running a campaign for the last ten years that has featured a lot of angels and their conflicts. The angels were designed based on as much classical angelology as I could get my hands on, and were pretty much as have been described in earlier posts from myself and Earl. I'm one of the "running IN backwards' types, and prefer things to be a little (ok a lot) darker than presneted in most of the IN stuff. I think that making angels soulless is more dramatically satisfying and answers more questions than having some undefinable difference between human souls and celestial souls. I apologise if I seemed to be being critical. I was just trying to find out why things had been designed that way, and offer a different slant on things that people who like that sort of thing might appreciate. > (What's the part that goes to > the celestial realm after death for humans, anyway? The body/vessel > dies, and the consciousness, the motivating force, the "I" is > assumed to be what heads off to eternal reward, right?) > My take on souls is slightly different (big surprise there). I tend to see humans as being like a computer. The computer has hardware (the body), a "mind" (the OS and programs) and a "motivating force" (electricity). I'm not saying that souls are electricity, but that they are separate from the mind. In my own game (irrelevant to IN I know, but potentially of interest) a mind is what is created when a soul enters a body, the point of interface between the two. Many religions hold that animals have no souls, which might go someway to explaining why humans seem to be the only sentient race on the planet. If anyone is interested further in this alternate background, please e-mail me privately, as I don't want to dump it on the list. Rev. TOC P.S. Am I the only person to think that the last part of Dante's Inferno is incredibly funny in light of all those people saying "It'll be a cold day in Hell when...."? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 16:48:41 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Reverend The Other Chris wrote: > P.S. Am I the only person to think that the last part of Dante's Inferno > is incredibly funny in light of all those people saying "It'll be a cold > day in Hell when...."? It is pretty funny. It also reminds me of something. I just finished reading _Heaven & Hell_, which I thought was overall a really good book. One thing bothered me, though: Hell seemed like way too nice a place. Maybe it was just the presentation, or maybe I was just having an off day when I read it, but it really didn't seem like _Hell_ to me. It was more like Alpha Complex (out of Paranoia) meets AD&D's Elemental Plane of Fire. It sounded like it was just another place, not really all that bad. I dunno what I expected. Maybe more notes on how to convey the FEEL of being in Hell to the PCs. I mean, it should be a miserable place to live, full of torture and despair. Instead, it seemed like upstate New Jersey (I have relatives there, and visit fairly regularly, so back off :) ): crowded and kind of dangerous, but not really HELL. Did anyone else think this, or am I just nuts? I did enjoy the book as a whole, though. In fact, I've already used parts of it to run a short adventure in Heaven. It's just that Hell didn't seem, well, bad enough. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 17:06:21 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> So who is this God person anyways? On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > All these arguments fall into the category of "Can God make > a rock so big that he can't lift it?" My answer to that has always been: "Surely He has better things to do with His time." :) > My (non-Canon) guess is that in In Nomine God has limited > Omniscience. He knows everything that Is and Was but not everything > that Will Be. He's the best pool shooter in the universe and he's > made an agreement (with himself) not to cheat by moving the balls > around directly or peeking into the future. My (non-Canon) reasoning is different. Obviously, or I wouldn't post this. :) I think God, in In Nomine, is trying to make more beings like Him. Check my reasoning: One of the excerpts from the Angels Handbook that is posted at the SJGames website has Yves teaching young angels about the creation. In it (if I remember correctly) Yves says that the angels are little, independent pieces of God. That's cool, but that makes the angels just little, limited clones of God. This presents a problem: a unique creature (God) has limited odds of long-term survival, no matter how powerful. Clones don't increase the odds of long term survival, because they have the same inherent weakneses as the "parent", meaning that angels contribute nothing to the survival of the race of God. So God gets an idea. He will create more beings like Himself. But! He can't just _fashion_ them out of whole cloth, or they will be nothing more than more clones of Him. The beings He creates need to develop and evolve on their own, until they become Gods on their own. That way they will be like the original God, but they will also be unique creatures. So God creates man. And He gives man the ability to do evil, because He also wants them to have the ability to do good. And then He starts giving hints and tips, things that helped Him along as He was beginning to realize what He was. But He restricts Himself to giving only hints, tips, and the bare minimum of assistance He can get away with giving to the faithful (and then only when they ask). Why? Because if He does more, then He interferes with His attempts to make more beings like Himself. Now, this explains why humans who go to Heaven get to go to the Higher Heavens, while the angels (who are just weak God-clones) can't without direct orders. Humans who go to Heaven are far enough along in their progression that they can go to the Higher Heavens under their own power, while angels can't. Hope that made sense to everyone. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:58:09 -0600 (CST) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: IN> [Pagan Victory] PV interlude 2 Pagan Victory Interlude 2- Three Sides to Every Story The young priest grabbed ahold of the doorway as another bomb exploded near by. When he received the news that Armageddon had arrived at last he had been elated. This was what he and his fellow Purifiers had been waiting for; it was every Soldier of God's dream to live to see the day that God would triumph. But somehow he had thought this all would be different. Where was the Angels with flaming swords? From what he had heard, all of the Angels had left Earth, many leaving instructions as to what to do. 'Well, he thought as he positioned the explosives he had been carrying, angels or no, he was doing God's will'. 'There he is' thought the youth in the shadows as she steadied her rifle to get a better shot. She wondered if he was as truly dedicated to his side as she was to hers or if he had his doubts. It wouldn't matter for him soon anyway. She had orders and even though the Stalker that gave them had left back to the realm of Nightmares, she knew better than to disobey. She had been told from the beginning that this day might come. At 12 she didn't know how serious this would all become. Well, none of that mattered now. 'Still,' she thought as she prepared to pull the trigger, 'I would have liked to got to the prom this year.' Just as she started to slide her finger back, the priest looked up as a large crow flew overhead. She could have sworn that the bomb that he just place had moved. No, her imagination must be playing tricks on her. "Come on, Mother, please hurry. We must make it to the woods as soon as possible." A young woman pulled at her aging mother's hand and shifted the child sleeping in her arms. Luckily their hurried departure hadn't woke him. It was so had to get him to go to sleep with all of the bombing. They were so fortunate to not live in an area that had been targeted for a nuclear attack. Living in the middle of nowhere had it's advantages. She should have left with the others, but she wanted to put off moving into the shelter that had been hastily build in the woods as long as possible. When the Morrigan appeared to her in a dream and told her to flee, she knew that her time was running out quickly. Too quickly. She gasped as the shadow of a huge crow passed over head. "Caw! You better duck, Honey!" She had just enough time as she reached the woods to kneel down an watch as her house exploded. *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:56:37 -0600 (CST) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: IN> [Pagan Victory] PV part 2 (Ed's Note: here's the second part, I hope everyone enjoys it- Dotti B.) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pagan Victory 2: Destruction and Re-Creation "War is not the answer! Negotiation is the only way to achieve lasting peace!" The crowd assembled outside the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. applauded as the speaker paused to push a lock of blond hair out of her eyes. "Violent action is not going to solve this..." Her voice trailed off. "Novalis?" someone next to her questioned. "Oh, my God," the Archangel of Flowers whispered as tears flowed down her cheeks, "why?" Her sobs joined the screams of mortals around the globe as any hope for peace was shattered by the first nuclear warhead. The bombing continued for what seemed an eternity, and then everything stopped. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A lone figure picked his way through the rubble that was once Jerusalem. In just a few hours everything that man had worked so hard to create had been destroyed. He ran a burned hand along the remains of the Wailing Wall, leaving a trail of blood as the stench of thousands of charred bodies overwhelmed him. This destruction was the reason he had fled Heaven's glory decades ago. The War was inevitable, he knew as much, but the inevitability did nothing to soften the blow. "There has to be some place left untouched by the War," he thought out loud, "but where?" As he looked towards the eerie red horizon, he answered. "The hopes of mankind." Eli, Archangel of Creation, gave one last glance over his shoulder as he left the Corporeal Realm he had grown to love so dearly and turned towards the Far Marches. It felt so strange for him to fly in his true form after so long on Earth. The effects of the War had yet to reach here. Perhaps, he hoped, they never would. As he descended he looked at what surrounded him. A constant wind swirled golden sand around his legs. Enjoying the warmth, he began one of the taller dunes to better see his surroundings. Standing at the top he could see that before him the desert abruptly ended, forming a lush band of vegetation flanking a wide river. Intrigued, he began to walk towards the river. As he drew closer he could see a small earthen hut set among the tree. Curious he crept to one of the windows and peered inside. Two female figures stood facing each other with a low table between them. Upon the table lay the shrouded remains of what Eli guessed was a human. He watched as another figure stepped through an open doorway and addresses the women in ancient Egyptian. "I have another gift for you, my dear sisters, and some rather unfortunate news. " The new comer paused to pull back his hood reveling hair the color of fresh drawn blood. He handed one of the women a small jar. "This will be the last of the Essence I can swindle from our enemies. The Final War has begun. I'm sorry I could not do more for my brother." As Eli was about to turn to leave, for by now he recognized the Egyptian Gods he was spying on, a shadow fell over him. "Perhaps," the jackle-headed figure asked in a bemused voice as Eli turned around, "you would like to come in and join us. Please," he requested offering Eli his arm, "do come inside." Anubis escorted Eli before the Gods. RWell,S stated the red haired figure, "it seems Anubis has brought us a guest. Introductions, I believe, are in order. I," he said as he turned and bowed, reveling the face of some unknown beast, "am Set. These are my sisters Isis and Nephthys. I believe you have already met Anubis. And this," he said as he placed a hand on the body resting on the table, "is my beloved brother Osirus. Now, Archangel of Creation, how may we help you?" "I always heard," Eli stated, "that you hated your brother and that you joined in with the forces of Hell." Set's eyes blazed. "I only did so to gather the essence needed to bring my brother back. We may have had our disagreements but we are still family. Sticking with my family is better than taking sides in a war that would destroy us all. So tell me," Set snarled as he began to pace around Eli, "Where is this God of love and mercy you serve? Huh? Oh that's right. He's declared a war that has killed a fifth of the world's population in half a day." Set pulled Eli close and looked him in the eyes. "A billion dead isn't bad for a days work, eh, Friend of Man." Eli wept. Isis put her hand on Set's arm. "Was that really necessary, Brother?" she whispered. Wiping tears away with the back of his hand, Eli asked, "What is it that I am supposed to do?" Isis stepped forward as Set moved away from Eli. "Help us. Stand with us, all of us here in the Marches, in the battle to bring healing to the Earth." Nephthy's put her arm around her sister. "Aid us in bringing back our brother." "I know," Set added, "a Norse warrior who is also in need of healing after you're done here." Eli took a deep breath. "First, we must heal his body." ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mythological Background Eli has met with five of the Egyptian Gods, four of whom are siblings. To further complicate things, they are also intermarried (Gods don't have to worry about inbreeding- perfect genes and all that). The remains on the table are those of Osirus, a nature deity and judge of the dead. In the past he had been slain by his brother Set, but was raised from the dead by his wife Isis, a sorceress. Also present is Nephthy's, who is usually depicted as an assistant to either Isis or Set, and her son Anubis (who was produced from an affair with Osirus). Anubis has the job of bringing the dead into the underworld. Finally there is Set, the god of darkness, and in most opinions, evil (he's not bad. he's just drawn that way). The Norse God Set is referring to is Thor, who was nearly fatally wounded in his battle to stave of the Malkakim horde so the other Gods could flee. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Time line This part begins the corporeal war. After Jordi finished moving the animals to safety, as best he could at least, he alerted Novalis to the coming War. Yves hadn't told Novalis that Armageddon was slated to begin because it was felt (quite rightly) that Novalis would attempt to stop the War. She knew that at this point protesting in Heaven would do nothing, so she took her plea for peace to the corporeal. It didn't work. As an unfortunate side affect, Novalis and many of her servants were at ground zero when D.C. was nuked. The corporeal war proceeded swiftly with many world capitals as well as celestially important areas (such as the Vatican and much of the Middle East) targeted first. One such place was Jerusalem, where Eli had been staying. Eli was, up until the bombing began, completely unaware that Armageddon had been declared (there was only a token effort put forward into finding him to tell him of Heaven's plans; most felt that he, like Novalis, would try and stop the battle). Seeing the mass destruction, he fled in search of something untouched by the fighting. He ended up in the Far Marches' version of the Nile Valley. After being persuaded by Set (who has been having a bad day for the last few thousand years) Eli has joined in with the Pagan Gods in an attempt to help humanity. After helping to raise Osirus from the dead (again) Set leads Eli to Thor, who is in need of some healing as well (Set does have ethics, just a few of them are a little different). After this the Pagans will begin their final preparations. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:02:03 -0500 From: Reverend The Other Chris Subject: Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: > > I just finished > reading _Heaven & Hell_, which I thought was overall a really good book. > One thing bothered me, though: Hell seemed like way too nice a place. > Maybe it was just the presentation, or maybe I was just having an off day > when I read it, but it really didn't seem like _Hell_ to me. It was more > like Alpha Complex (out of Paranoia) meets AD&D's Elemental Plane of Fire. > It sounded like it was just another place, not really all that bad. > > > Did anyone else think this, or am I just nuts? > You're not nuts. I enjoyed the book too (in fact I've not read an IN book I didn't enjoy) but Hell seemed almost cuddly. Yeah I know that everyone is at each others throats and are busy trading essence in order to stay in existance longer, but it simply didn't seem nasty enough. Maybe I'm just sick, but Hell should be the worst possible place you can think of, with added nasty bits. Things that made Hell too easy; Shal-Mari: Hell has strip joints?! I think not. Hell should have no respite, no place to buy a break, just differing degrees and manners of torment. Soul-Death: It's not eternal punishment. Souls can be destroyed and thus end their torment. Recruitment: souls can end up working for Demons. Okay, slavery is nasty but these guys are still offered some form of relief for their torment. There are more, but basically it comes down to the fact that IN Hell is just too nice. In the alternate background mentioned in my last post, I have more thoughts on Hell and its true nature. Basically it is an environment designed to cause pain to those who live there. Demons love it; like a traumatised kid who cuts herself, they need that pain to dull the anguish of being cut off from God, and humans who turn away from God find that this is the only other place to go. Eventually they too come to need the pain, completing the cycle of abused and abuser. Demons love to torment humans because (in my universe) it was over the gifting of humans with souls that the rebellion began. later Rev. TOC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:34:46 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim > > Nah, he wears bondage gear. > > Well, Laurence is into leather, so I suppose they complement each > other. I keep on remembering what somebody said during that discussion: "It's like Tim Curry in the Three Musketeers; you can't help but imaginging that he's wearing his outfit from Rocky Horror under there..." > Would that make Larry the subbie, since we already have a Dommie? > ;;;) Who-boy. That's a weird image...makes sense, though, in a twisted way... > > - Em, Avoiding the Deadly Gaze of an Evil Dominic. > > Of course, now I can't help but use Tim Curry's voice when I imagine > Dom speaking.. "How do you do I...see you've met my...faithful Malakim..." Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:54:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Archangels and Christianity (was Re: IN> Theology) At 12:28 PM -0400 12/2/97, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Casca wrote: >> (Yves is behind everything. -Everything-. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya.) > >Does Yves have a pyramid with a lidless eye in it as one of his vessels? >:) "You're not cleared for that information." emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:56:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim At 12:51 PM -0500 12/2/97, Emily Dresner wrote: [Dominic Wears His Cloak Because...] >> Seriously, now. In my campaign he wears it to disguise the fact that he >> looks like somebody's stern but kind grandfather, and then only when he is >> despensing justice. > >Nah, he wears bondage gear. Collars and cuffs and things. *Slave* bondage gear. emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:51:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question At 10:25 AM -0500 12/2/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Dec 1, 9:38pm, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question >> > >I would point out that the demon is hot in temperature only; why >> > >*any* angel would get it on with a Shedim is beyond me... >> > >> > [...] >> > Though I suppose that if one had a kinky streak... No, I won't go >> > there. I just won't go there. Not in public. Refer to >> > vap.alt.sex.shedim.drip.drip.drip... >> >> Thanks, no. I'll stick to vap.alt.sex.habbalah.I.can.take.it. >> >> (Just turned 18 yesterday, got my first tattoo today. I'm on a roll, >> folks...) > > What do y'all think: Shedim possession? ;) Nah, just a hothead Kyrio with an attitude... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:52:53 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate and Nominous Corpus At 10:03 AM -0600 12/2/97, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: >'Er 'oliness Beth inscrivid: >************** >[...] >If, however, it abandons one of those hosts for two smaller ones >(call it 2 cats), only one of those will get Claws "automatically." >It must sing Claws a fourth time for all four hosts to use that NC. >[...] >*********************** > >So what's the penalty involved in using NC Claws (6) in a cat vessel. >(Cat with 1 foot claws!?) Don't forget that if your kitty-cat weighs what a kitty should, and you have, like, Strength 6... "Leaps tall buildings!" The penalty is probably whatever the GM feels like dishing out, I'd say... >What about a mouse vessel? (Mouse with 1' claws!!!!?????) Stilts! >What about a swarm of insects? (Mosquitos with 1' claws?!!!????) > >Don't forget yer bug repellent guys, the swamp just got a whole lot mo' >dangeruss. And people wonder why Jordi's one of the *Powerful* Archangels!! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:06:24 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) At 4:48 PM -0400 12/2/97, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: [...] >One thing bothered me, though: Hell seemed like way too nice a place. >Maybe it was just the presentation, or maybe I was just having an off day >when I read it, but it really didn't seem like _Hell_ to me. It was more >like Alpha Complex (out of Paranoia) meets AD&D's Elemental Plane of Fire. >It sounded like it was just another place, not really all that bad. > >I dunno what I expected. Maybe more notes on how to convey the FEEL of >being in Hell to the PCs. I mean, it should be a miserable place to live, >full of torture and despair. It is, for the humans. Think about it from *their* point of view for a few moments... For demons? Well, it's not very nice, really (unless you're in Shal- Mari), but it's home. They grew up there (probably) or have spent a long time learning their way around the place. I mean, I hatehatehate snow with a passion, but after living up here in the frozen wastelands of NH, I've sort of gotten used to hating it. The writeup of Hell *does* require a certain amount of GM-slant on it, I think. A "Happy Hell" has people bopping around Shal-Mari and hanging out. An "Unhappy Hell" has the air of desperation to all the "pleasures" there, as the damned (and demons, likely) go about their business, trying to pretend that they're not really *stuck* there, trying to pretend that every little pleasure isn't hollow and meaningless... The people in the Janus/Malphas Principality can either be a bunch of slick Robin Hood types and con-men, or desperate, scruffy things, pitifully trying to find something that will make them come to the notice of someone big enough to protect them. Fighting for Baal can be regimented, with occasional breaks and someone being decorated for valor. Or it can be dirty, sweaty, and with nothing for winning a battle but more fighting until you're *dead* if you can't manage to be more vicious than the rest of the scum you kill. And one person's Hell is another's Utopia, and vice versa... Find out what really squicks your PCs, and add those little notes in. emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:14:01 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question From: "Nathaniel Eliot" >Thanks, no. I'll stick to vap.alt.sex.habbalah.I.can.take.it. > >(Just turned 18 yesterday, got my first tattoo today. I'm on a roll, >folks...) Uhhh... thanks for sharing, I guess... :) Rolling, rolling, rolling, keep those cherubs rolling... okay, too fluffy... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:28:05 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven From: Elizabeth McCoy > >At 8:44 PM -0600 12/1/97, Shadowcat wrote: >>Greetings all. >> This weekend Fran asked me a question that I thought that you all >>would appreciate. >> What do the various Archangels do for Christmas? > >Hmmmmmm..... > >Yves goes quietly visiting and has eggnog with people who >need that. (as might Lilith, if they *really* _need_ that) >Jean is busy programming and hasn't looked up since the last >time one of his Servitors called and doesn't have a clue what >day it is. Yes! Ha ha ha!! >Janus is harnessing up a bunch of Ofanim with reindeer vessels >and the Songs of Motion. That and lifting spare change in putting it into those red buckets those people with hand bells stand next to... >Hmmmm.... That about everybody? What about that AA of Protection? Maybe s/he's out spreading salt on the roads... O:::) - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:06:34 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Archangels and Christianity >>>I never said that Laurence didn't set up ML...I simply said that Yves was behind it all. Perhaps he obliquely suggested it to Laurence in such a vague way that the Sword took it as his own idea....I mean, it taught Laurence a valuable lesson, didn't it? Changed the way he saw humans, and therefore how he fought the war. Sounds like Destiny to me.... -especially- given Yves' comments in the NM writeup.<<< That's always a possibility. It greatly diminishes what I thought was one of the best parts of that story though -- the element of free will, and an Archangel being taught a lesson by a human acting unexpectedly. (Plus I like the idea of _Laurence_ having free will and coming up with his own ideas anyway. Additionally, Yves has been kind of soured on playing with religion since the mess with Gabriel and Islam.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:37:48 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven From: Elizabeth McCoy >Hmmmm.... That about everybody? You forgot Archives and the Archdean. I suspect they're both teaching kids new Christmas carols. The Archdean's carols aren't just carols, though... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:37:48 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question > From: "Nathaniel Eliot" > >Thanks, no. I'll stick to vap.alt.sex.habbalah.I.can.take.it. > > > >(Just turned 18 yesterday, got my first tattoo today. I'm on a roll, > >folks...) > > Uhhh... thanks for sharing, I guess... :) Sorry - I'm in a show-off mood. > Rolling, rolling, rolling, keep those cherubs rolling... > > okay, too fluffy... Well, it has a little to do with In Nomine. Habbalah, tattoos, inviting pain...well, I tried, at least... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:20:49 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim > > Well, Laurence is into leather, so I suppose they complement each > > other. > I keep on remembering what somebody said during that discussion: > "It's like Tim Curry in the Three Musketeers; you can't help but > imaginging that he's wearing his outfit from Rocky Horror under > there..." That was one of mine... ('Course, in Rocky, I always try to picture him as the butler from Clue. I have this tendency to try to see people played by the same actor as actually the same character...{say, `Garland Green' the serial killer from "Con Air", when he gets recaptured years later, goes on to become Map-to-the-Stars Eddie in "Escape from L.A.". It just FITS.}) > > Would that make Larry the subbie, since we already have a Dommie? > Who-boy. That's a weird image...makes sense, though, in a twisted I dunno...I'm with the Archangel on this one. Laurence is the dom, Dominic/que's his sub. No, wait, this just in...according to this envelope I've been handed, they're BOTH Doms. In fact, almost all of the Archangels just play with Marc. > > Of course, now I can't help but use Tim Curry's voice when I imagine > > Dom speaking.. > "How do you do I...see you've met my...faithful Malakim..." Glargh...that's a tempting one, isn't it? I've got too much I'm working on right now...but..but... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 01:52:18 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Okay, so could somebody please explain to me why someone with Strength 1 does the damage amount of damage as someone with Strength 8 with a punch. (Power - 3) Granted high skill and Strength of 9+ enter the equation, but is that it? Bill the Necromancer (str 8) strikes his friend Biff. Bill rolls 161, doing nil damage. Biff (str 1) slaps back, rolling 325, doing 2 points of damage. Why? - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:12:30 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage >Okay, so could somebody please explain to me why someone with Strength 1 >does the damage amount of damage as someone with Strength 8 with a punch. >(Power - 3) > >Granted high skill and Strength of 9+ enter the equation, but is that it? > >Bill the Necromancer (str 8) strikes his friend Biff. Bill rolls 161, >doing nil damage. Biff (str 1) slaps back, rolling 325, doing 2 points of >damage. > >Why? > Because Biff ducked and then found Bill's glass jaw. Strength determines how often a character will land a blow that causes damage. Characters with lower strength may be hitting the target, but their blows aren't doing anything... except for those few moments when everything miraculously comes together for them. Redneck (we've had this out how many times?) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "Hmmm... Sugar Plum Fairies." http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | --- Haagenti at the ballet c/o White Lightning Productions | * * * * * * http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | "MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Laurence and Haagenti http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:43:33 -0500 From: "Ehrbar" Subject: IN> Haagenti's Politics [LONG] The Inter-Prince Politics of Haagenti Demon Prince of Gluttony The key to understanding Haagenti's politics is to look at the Attunement all his servitors must take. Consume is not limited to the original "food" sense of Gluttony -- it includes *any* form. And it's the most public indication that Haagenti hungers for a much bigger slice of Hell's pie than he now has. (Mmm. Pie.) In fact, Haagenti is possibly the most ambitious major Prince, and that's saying a lot. But the other Princes desire power because they're selfish -- Haagenti wants it because his Word is driving him on. Haagenti can never just want something -- he has to want more, and better, than he's ever had before. And what he's wanted, ever since he was created, is *power*. In fact, Haagenti currently wants complete control of Gluttony, in his own excessive definition of "excessive consumption of or desire for anything". And to do it, he's going to have to eliminate a few other Princes. Say, Belial and that new upstart Furfur to begin with. And maybe his former servant Fleurity, his current associate Mammon, the hostile Andrealphus, and the hostile Valefor next. ANDREALPHUS: Of course, hunger and lust are used in many of the same types of analogies, and sex is a physical pleasure which can be taken to extremes just like eating. But Haagenti's smart enough to know he can't go after Andrealphus yet, not with Belial on his plate. So he bides and waits, emphasizing his own buffonery and refusing to reciprocate Andre's hostility. Haagenti'll expand into the consuming fires of passion after he digests Belial's power. ASMODEUS: Haagenti doesn't like Asmodeus for a bunch of reasons. First, Asmodeus was part of the Old Order which opressed the demon tyke. Second, Asmodeus is an enemy of Haagenti's ally Kobal. Third, Asmodeus opposed Haagenti's elevation because Haagenti broke "the Rules" during his ascent to power. Fourth, he thinks Asmodeus is a stuffy jerk. And fifth, Haagenti is concerned that Asmodeus and his secret police might uncover and act to prevent Haagenti's plans to become the most powerful Prince in Hell. BELIAL: Haagenti consumes, and Fire consumes. Haagenti's hungry -- fire's hungry. Haagenti's actively trying to undermine Belial and bring Fire under the umbrella of wasteful consumption -- Gluttony. Belial is aware enough of this that he's hostile to Haagenti back. Haagenti isn't willing to move the relationship to enmity quite yet, because Belial's too strong for open warfare to be successful, and Baal is still too attached to the pyromaniac. FLEURITY & MAMMON: Fleurity and Mammon are pretty obvious -- Fleurity used to serve Haagenti, and Mammon rules over "gluttons for money". But they're weak and useful, so they're way down Haagenti's list. In fact, Haagenti treats them as associates -- to his way of thinking, he's fattening the calves while stopping any other Princes from expanding into those areas. FURFUR: Furfur's Servitor Attunement, Overdrive, causes humans to overdo their normal responses, which includes drinking or eating more than they normally would (if it's a normal response to a stress). Furfur's new, he's ambitious, he dwells in Shal-Mari, and he's openly hostile to everybody but Lilith and Nybbas, including Haagenti. And so, Haagenti would consider eating this young Prince. But Furfur's a thorn in the side of Belial. While Haagenti intends to eventually eliminate Furfur, at present he's having his Servitors treat Furfur as Associated. Haagenti figures he can always eat Furfur later. (Mmmm. Fur. Twice.) KOBAL: Kobal was an ally, his Word is compatible without being close enough to be easily digested, Kobal is still being friendly, and it's always good to have an in with somebody whom Lucifer seems to like. So Haagenti maintains the alliance with Kobal. MALPHAS: Personal dislike, and no counterbalancing factors. Nothing more, nothing less. NYBBAS: Hey, the Media encourages overconsumption, which feeds directly to Haagenti's power base. It would be *stupid* to do anything but help Nybbas. SAMINGA: Haagenti *likes* Saminga, and doesn't have a reason to oppose him. Heck, vampires are perfect gluttons -- how many human lives have to be consumed to maintain just ONE vampire for a year? So Haagenti has his Servitors work with those of the Prince of Death. VALEFOR: Now, sure, Haagenti tells his Servitors to bother Valefor's, and Valefor tells his servants to bother Haagenti's. But everyone who thinks things are as they seem in Hell isn't going to live long. No, Valefor and Haagenti don't actually *like* each other -- personally, each finds the other detestable. But both hate Asmodeus. In secret, Haagenti and Valefor are coordinating a complicated practical joke with Asmodeus as its butt, hoping to embarass and weaken the Prince of the Game. The joke is[NO CARRIER] Steve, Undecided Demon Band of Undecided Prince. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #496 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.