From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Dec 4 04:57:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA06605 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:57:46 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id EAA22126 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:48:59 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:48:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199712041048.EAA22126@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #497 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, December 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 497 In this digest: Re: IN> Seraphim IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage IN> In Nomine Diceless Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) RE: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless IN> The Angel of Civil Disobedience ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:26:14 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim > >> Seriously, now. In my campaign he wears it to disguise the fact that he > >> looks like somebody's stern but kind grandfather, and then only when he is > >> despensing justice. > > > >Nah, he wears bondage gear. > > Collars and cuffs and things. *Slave* bondage gear. > AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! The Image! THE IMAGE! I'm scarred for life now. > > one about the Malakim Porn market in Shal-Mari> Wait, I have the paddle right here. I should never have let her out of her box. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 09:15:47 -0500 From: David Wood Subject: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Quoth "Perry M. Lloyd" on 12/3/97 2:51 AM... >Okay, so could somebody please explain to me why someone with Strength 1 >does the damage amount of damage as someone with Strength 8 with a punch. >(Power - 3) >Granted high skill and Strength of 9+ enter the equation, but is that it? >Bill the Necromancer (str 8) strikes his friend Biff. Bill rolls 161, >doing nil damage. Biff (str 1) slaps back, rolling 325, doing 2 points of >damage. Oh boy, more numbers. Just what I've always wanted. [insert questionable hand gesture here] Just for the sake of Completeness, let's flesh out some more of the numbers. The format used below is: Corporeal Forces (Str, Agl) / Ethereal Forces (Int, Prec) / you get the idea. Body hits are calculated as (Corp Forces + Vessel Level) * Strength. And for humans, Vessel Leve = Corp Forces. Unless they don't, and I've misremembered the formula, in which case the numbers below will be very different but the principles will be rather the same. Bill's stats are 3(8,4)/2(4,4)/2(4/4). He has (3+3)*8=48 Body. Biff's stats are 2(1,7)/2(4,4)/1(2,2). You've already specified Str=1, so we're giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he's got 2 physical forces and just 1 celestial force. He is (2+2)*1=4 Body. Bill does no damage to Biff. Three times out of six he does no appreciable damage to Biff. The fourth time, he does him for 25% of his Body, which will hurt like the Dickens. The fifth time, he does 50% of Biff's Body, and the sixth time, he does 75% of Biff's Body -- ooh, bet *that'll* leave a mark... Biff, likewise, has three chances in six of doing squadoo to Bill. On the fourth, he'll do 1 point of damage, which in Biff's health is a hare's breath over *2%* of Bill's health. Likewise, he has a one in six chance of doing 4%, and another one in six of doing 6%. The balancing factor is not necessarily in the damage done, but the damage received. And like I said above, I was giving Biff the benefit of the doubt. If he had 1 physical force and 1 Str, he'd only have 2 Body. Assuming Bill hits, he has a two in six chance of knocking Biff out cold. There's a *reason* humans were once referred to on this list as "crunchies..." - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ My Own Private Blasphemy: the in-house In Nomine Campaign Page http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/tabletop/innomine/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:30:02 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> In Nomine Diceless David Wood wrote: > Oh boy, more numbers. Just what I've always wanted. [insert > questionable hand gesture here] Has anybody on the list done a diceless version? I have never played a diceless game, but the idea intrigues me. If there is a diceless IN knocking about in someone's head, I would be interested to see the description. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:44:29 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless I've been working a version out based on the Amber DRPG, but it's for Superiors and maybe powerful Dukes. ='} Oops da Ogre, all I need to work out is the Powers mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:49:43 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) Miscellaneous thoughts on Hell: In Dante's "Inferno," there's a wide variety and gradation of pains. Limbo (literally, "the edge") is technically part of Hell, but is actually quite pleasant. The inmates are very nice people and suffer nothing but the absence of the vision of God. Other parts are just gloomy, like the abyss where unfaithful lovers are blown about on dark winds -- and that's all -- or where gluttons sit in mud under perpetual rain. Then there are the lakes of boiling blood, or the fire pits, or being chewed on by demon-dogs, etc. Hell as a parallel "kingdom" to Heaven probably traces back to Zoroastrian ideas. In the Bible, there are two, or maybe three, major images of Hell, none of them very kingdom-like. One is "the abyss," Sheol, very like old Greek Hades, a black blank where nothing much happens and ghosts and banished spirits simply hang out and maybe reminisce, compare notes, and watch the passing pagent of history. Another is Gehenna, originally the civic dump outside Jerusalem, where the bodies of executed criminals were cast, and where babies were once sacrificed to Moloch. It combines the ideas of destruction and rejection. The third is the Lake of Fire in Revelation, which may just be an intensified version of Gehenna. So, if I picture a Satanic "kingdom in Hell," I tend to picture it as like a crime-lord's enclave in a really nasty shanty town built on an extensive dump/landfill. Someone, I forget who, described the fires of hell as the light of God as seen by those who reject Him. This dovetails with the Other Chris's remarks about demons and damned souls coming to like the pains of Hell because they distract from the deeper pain of severance from God. Dorothy L. Sayers, she of the Lord Peter Wimsey murder mysteries, used the same image in "The Devil to Pay," her version of the Faustus story. In "The Screwtape Letters," C. S. Lewis has Screwtape refer to the devils' inescapable awareness of God's presence, which forms a continual background of pain to their lives. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:14:49 -0600 (CST) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > From: Elizabeth McCoy > >Hmmmm.... That about everybody? > > You forgot Archives and the Archdean. I suspect they're both > teaching kids new Christmas carols. The Archdean's carols aren't > just carols, though... > > Ok- I can't resist any longer. In reference to Christamas Carols as sung by Archives: "Aww, do we have to sing the one about the Dewey Decimal System, again?" *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:32:33 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) > >I dunno what I expected. Maybe more notes on how to convey the FEEL of > >being in Hell to the PCs. I mean, it should be a miserable place to live, > >full of torture and despair. > > It is, for the humans. Think about it from *their* point of view for > a few moments... > [snip] > The writeup of Hell *does* require a certain amount of GM-slant on > it, I think. A "Happy Hell" has people bopping around Shal-Mari > and hanging out. An "Unhappy Hell" has the air of desperation to > all the "pleasures" there, as the damned (and demons, likely) go > about their business, trying to pretend that they're not really > *stuck* there, trying to pretend that every little pleasure isn't > hollow and meaningless... I agree. From what I have looked at of Heaven and Hell, I get the impression that Hell, or at least Shal-Mari, is largely based on the Hell from Robert A. Heinlein's, "Job: A Comedy of Justice", which I certainly buy. I believe that much of it is open to GM interpretation, with the caveat that "Just because it's published by Steve Jackson Games, it doesn't mean you have to use it." I always thought that the Demon Princes were trying to recreate their heavenly pleasures they wanted to control so badly, with the anarchy that comes from being in Hell. Gehenna reminds me of the Glade with an awful lot of just nastiness thrown in. > > The people in the Janus/Malphas Principality can either be a bunch of > slick Robin Hood types and con-men, or desperate, scruffy things, > pitifully trying to find something that will make them come to the > notice of someone big enough to protect them. FREUDIAN SLIP ALERT!!! Now we know ALL the secrets. :) The *VALEFOR*/Malphas Principality is Stygia, just for reference. > And one person's Hell is another's Utopia, and vice versa... Find > out what really squicks your PCs, and add those little notes in. > > So yeah, back to the point. I agree with the above comment, it's quite true. If you really want the darkest, evillest, nastiest hell you can get, order Kult's INFERNO sourcebook (Not the CCG, the new sourcebook) from one of the many game retailers around or your local hobby shop. I don't have it, so when you're done, you can pass it on, yeah? It's on my Christmas list. :) I also suggest you read Chris Bickford's not very editted but scary as hell game log at http://www.mcs.net/~cbickfor/homepage/kult/tddup.htm, as he drags his players through Purgatory just for kicks near the end. I have some ideas on how to make some areas, Gehenna, Sheol, Stygia, and Tartarus in particular, MUCH worse then they are presented in Heaven and Hell, along with some other scary horrible things I intend to unleash on my players next week. I would be all happy to read a rewrite of the Hell section, if someone has the time to do it. I'm buried (I'm committed to, like, six things, four of which are In Nomine related), so can't do any of it myself, at least not right now. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 10:37:50 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: RE: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Quoth "Perry M. Lloyd" on 12/3/97 2:51 AM... >Okay, so could somebody please explain to me why someone with Strength 1 >does the damage amount of damage as someone with Strength 8 with a punch. >(Power - 3) > >Granted high skill and Strength of 9+ enter the equation, but is that it? > >Bill the Necromancer (str 8) strikes his friend Biff. Bill rolls 161, >doing nil damage. Biff (str 1) slaps back, rolling 325, doing 2 points of >damage. > >Why? > [Redneck] >Because Biff ducked and then found Bill's glass jaw. > >Strength determines how often a character will land a blow that causes >damage. Characters with lower strength may be hitting the target, but their >blows aren't doing anything... except for those few moments when everything >miraculously comes together for them. > >Redneck (we've had this out how many times?) The fact that we've this out so many times says something... David Wood SNIP >Bill's stats are 3(8,4)/2(4,4)/2(4/4). He has (3+3)*8=48 Body. > >Biff's stats are 2(1,7)/2(4,4)/1(2,2). You've already specified Str=1, so >we're giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he's got 2 physical >forces and just 1 celestial force. He is (2+2)*1=4 Body. > >Bill does no damage to Biff. Three times out of six he does no >appreciable damage to Biff. The fourth time, he does him for 25% of his >Body, which will hurt like the Dickens. The fifth time, he does 50% of >Biff's Body, and the sixth time, he does 75% of Biff's Body -- ooh, bet >*that'll* leave a mark... > >Biff, likewise, has three chances in six of doing squadoo to Bill. On the >fourth, he'll do 1 point of damage, which in Biff's health is a hare's >breath over *2%* of Bill's health. Likewise, he has a one in six chance >of doing 4%, and another one in six of doing 6%. > >The balancing factor is not necessarily in the damage done, but the >damage received. > >And like I said above, I was giving Biff the benefit of the doubt. If he >had 1 physical force and 1 Str, he'd only have 2 Body. Assuming Bill >hits, he has a two in six chance of knocking Biff out cold. > >There's a *reason* humans were once referred to on this list as >"crunchies..." > >-David [Perry] Ok, I get it. Strength measures how tough you are and how likely you are to make contact with a physical attack. But, if Bill and Biff both hit a wall, they'll both do the same amount of damage, even if Bill can bench-press a truck. Actually, I don't think IN Strength DOES tell you how much you can lift... IN pg 35 "Strength represents raw physical prowess. As the primary Corporeal characteristic, Strength helps determine how much physical damage your body can endure. See p. 61 for combat rules." Prowess n. 1. Superior skill of ability. 2. Superior strength, courage, or daring, esp. in battle. Ok, so strength does NOT measure how much muscle mass you have. It merely measures how well you use what muscle mass you do have. A strength 1 character might be build like a truck, but will have a glass jaw and is too slow to hit effectively. A strength 8 character might be small and wiry but can easily withstand a direct hit from a shotgun and makes his strikes count. It's about how much damage you can take and how often you can damage someone else, but not how much you can damage them. It has NOTHING to do with how much damage any one particular blow does, even against inaminate objects. Against walls and tables, low Strength characters miss more often. So strength here is not meant to be understood in way is has been understood in other RPGs... GURPS: "STRENGTH (ST), a measure of 'brawn' or physical muscle" WoD: "Strength measures a character's lifting power and how much damage she can inflict in basic hand-to-hand combat." In IN, Strength covers not how strong you are, but how often you hit. Which, in a way, IS how poweful you are, since your bulk doesn't affect how much damage you do, even against inanimate objects. I'm going to have to clear this up with my players.... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:18:17 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless > I've been working a version out based on the Amber DRPG, but it's > for Superiors and maybe powerful Dukes. ='} Oooh. How close are you to complete? I would like to use this one... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:08:21 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question > > What do y'all think: Shedim possession? ;) > > No - the tattoo isn't something I (at least) would find morally > repugnant. But it certainly *looks* fairly demonic... Ah, but does it horrify your family? Shedim like to start small... and the victim never finds out how far they've gone until the Shedim leaves. Heh-heh-heh. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:14:25 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven Aaaaagh! Now I can't that Monty Python song out of my head! ("It's Christmas in Heaven and all the angels sing, etc...) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:18:47 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage On Dec 3, 1:52am, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: > Subject: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage > Okay, so could somebody please explain to me why someone with Strength 1 > does the damage amount of damage as someone with Strength 8 with a punch. > (Power - 3) > > Granted high skill and Strength of 9+ enter the equation, but is that it? > > Bill the Necromancer (str 8) strikes his friend Biff. Bill rolls 161, > doing nil damage. Biff (str 1) slaps back, rolling 325, doing 2 points of > damage. > > Why? In the long run it works out the same. The person with the higher strength will hit much more of the time (assuming equal skills). Not terribly realistic except over the course of a longer slugfest, but IN combat tends to be unrealistic. If the person with strength 1 manages to hit 20% of the time that gives him an average of .2 points of damage per round. The much stronger person that hits 80% of the time will be doing an average of .8 points of damage. So the stronger person does four times as much damage. Even more if Strength and skill are high enough. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:36:54 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven > > Aaaaagh! Now I can't that Monty Python song out of >my head! ("It's Christmas in Heaven and all the angels sing, etc...) > I was just -waiting- for someone to mention that... }:-{D Redneck (there's gifts for all the family, there's toiletries and trains, there's Sony Discman headphone sets and the latest video games) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 12:54:30 -0500 From: John J Maurer Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage At 09:15 AM 12/3/97 -0500, David Wood wrote: >Bill does no damage to Biff. Three times out of six he does no >appreciable damage to Biff. The fourth time, he does him for 25% of his >Body, which will hurt like the Dickens. The fifth time, he does 50% of >Biff's Body, and the sixth time, he does 75% of Biff's Body -- ooh, bet >*that'll* leave a mark... > >Biff, likewise, has three chances in six of doing squadoo to Bill. On the >fourth, he'll do 1 point of damage, which in Biff's health is a hare's >breath over *2%* of Bill's health. Likewise, he has a one in six chance >of doing 4%, and another one in six of doing 6%. Actually you are forgetting something else in this calculation. Strength is used to determine *IF* you hit as well. Bill with an 8 strength and 1 point in fighting hits on a 9 or less on 2D6. Thats pretty likely that he will hit. Biff with a 1 strength and 1 point in fighting hits on a 2 or less on 2D6 if he does hit he has a 1 in six shot of it being divine intervention! Usually he will miss baring that divine intervention. On the rare occasion he DOES hit he will frequently do no dammage. Speaks The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering. -Doctor Who, Face of Evil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:34:55 -0600 From: "Joshua Knorr" Subject: Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) >One thing bothered me, though: Hell seemed like way too nice a place. Here's my interpretation on it: in the IN universe, Hell isn't supposed to be an inherently *evil* or *painful* place. It's the home of the demonic contingent...and (as far as IN goes) the defining quality of a demon isn't evil, it's selfishness. Sure, there are plenty of places where demons get their rocks by torturing and doing pain unto others (Abaddon, Gehenna, to a lesser extend Perdition and Sheol), but for a lot of demons that not what they enjoy doing. Hell is the place where demons can do whatever their dark little heart desires, provided they (in turn) don't become cannon fodder for someone bigger and stronger. The evil of Hell isn't the standard Judeo-Christian fire, brimstone, and eternal suffering style. It's a more subtle, chilling, ironic-justice kind of evil. As always, season to taste. If you want to give Hell an in-your-face quality, than a trip through the labs of Tartarus will surely give you the willies and expose you to all sorts of horrific fates. But there is also something disturbing about trading away your Essence for a brief moment of sordid pleasure in the brothels of Shal-Mari, a place where people are lining up, even fighting, for a chance to actively and willingly contribute to their own eternal suffering. Joshua Knorr A conservative is a liberal who has just been mugged. A liberal is a conservative who has just been booked. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:31:35 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven At 11:37 PM +0000 12/2/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >From: Elizabeth McCoy >>Hmmmm.... That about everybody? > >You forgot Archives and the Archdean. I suspect they're both >teaching kids new Christmas carols. The Archdean's carols aren't >just carols, though... Archives is reading Xmas books to people at libraries. A *lot* of libraries. (She's part Kyrio, after all!) The ArchDean's carols... Yeah, that's about right. O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:40:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven At 9:14 AM -0600 12/3/97, Dorothy Bixler wrote: >Ok- I can't resist any longer. In reference to Christamas Carols as sung >by Archives: > >"Aww, do we have to sing the one about the Dewey Decimal System, again?" "o/~ Roy G Biv, Roy G Biv, he's the color quaddie that the rainbow is. Red Orange Yellow, Green and Blue, Indigo and Violet, all for you! o/~" (from the _Falling Free_ novel, by Lois McMaster Bujold) And then there's "Black Powder and Alcohol" by Leslie Fish... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:48:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) At 10:32 AM -0500 12/3/97, Emily Dresner wrote: >> The people in the Janus/Malphas Principality can either be a bunch of >> slick Robin Hood types and con-men, or desperate, scruffy things, >> pitifully trying to find something that will make them come to the >> notice of someone big enough to protect them. > >FREUDIAN SLIP ALERT!!! Now we know ALL the secrets. :) > >The *VALEFOR*/Malphas Principality is Stygia, just for reference. "Frotz. Those Balseraphs of the Media were getting into my keyboard again. Thought I sprayed for those last week! "Oh, there's the problem. "Hey, Jean, I thought you *fixed* that Nybbas-Vapulan virus that randomly scrambled Superior names!" "It is on my to-do list. Someone called in the middle of it, and I had to handle it. You're in the queue." "Do you want your library card revoked?" "I control the computer system. Your threats are empty." "I control the backup disks. *Archival* copies, nih?" "...." "Just gotta give those Elohim a nice logical threat to deal with..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:12:39 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless > > I've been working a version out based on the Amber DRPG, but it's > > for Superiors and maybe powerful Dukes. ='} > > Oooh. How close are you to complete? I would like to use this > one... I've got the basic parts down. It's just defining the powers that's going slow. Once I get it in better shape, I'll share. > Nathaniel Eliot > temujin9@ix.netcom.com Oops da Ogre, I wonder how much Bad Stuff Gabe has... mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:28:28 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) >>[Canon Request] Are there any Celestials on the moon? > >[Canon answer] Do you want there to be? > >*hem* So far, that question has not come up, and therefore >it will probably be a case of telling your celestials "You're not >cleared for that information." A celestial spirit who didn't have >a vessel could probably hang around there (ooooo! Vapulan imps and >gremlins, plus Lightning relievers, as listening stations!), but >a celestial who had a vessel would have difficulty -- they can only >stay in celestial form for a limited duration... > What about us Kyriotates? For a mere three Force points, Kyrios can have a Celestial form for as long as they don't need those points for another host. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:07:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) At 3:28 PM -0500 12/3/97, Jeff Miller wrote: >>>[Canon Request] Are there any Celestials on the moon? >> >>[Canon answer] Do you want there to be? >> >>*hem* So far, that question has not come up, and therefore >>it will probably be a case of telling your celestials "You're not >>cleared for that information." A celestial spirit who didn't have >>a vessel could probably hang around there (ooooo! Vapulan imps and >>gremlins, plus Lightning relievers, as listening stations!), but >>a celestial who had a vessel would have difficulty -- they can only >>stay in celestial form for a limited duration... >> >What about us Kyriotates? > >For a mere three Force points, Kyrios can have a Celestial form for as long >as they don't need those points for another host. That sounds like a very good reason to say that a Kyrio's celestial form can only last as long as most such forms do (CD + CelForces minutes), and then has to be re-generated, at the site of one of the hosts it's still got. Much fewer headaches. If a GM wants to do that, of course. To avoid the headaches of Kyrios on the Moon. Why do I have this awful image of the Moon as a great big Tether to David, with a Kyrio Seneschal, now? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:42:37 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) From the writeups, it may seem like Hell isn't such a bad place to live, even for the damned souls. For an EXCELLENT treatment of the layout of Hell and its inhabitants, I urge you all to read Maya's story "A Far Cry From Heavan" at http://www.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/caliah.html It really drives home the point of what's going on. Souls in the Gluttonous Shal-Mari area are starving...desperate for ANYTHING to eat, but the Essence they give up each day only buys them a quick bite; at one point, a woman is seen gnawing her hand off from hunger. It's the feel of desperation that makes it work. The same with Hades and Stygia...it's the paranoia, the knowledge that everyone is against you. Hell doesn't work right unless you really play up the atmosphere. But when done properly, it can be a heck of a lot scarier than just describing the whole plane as a big-ass lake of fire. :) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! - -= Windows 95 =- A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:56:40 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless > Oops da Ogre, I wonder how much Bad Stuff Gabe has... Oh, tons... Bad image just flashed in my head, caused by the discussion of Dom the Dom and Larry the Sub; Gabriel the Sadist, and Belial the Masochist. Compared to that, Blandine and Beleth's co-dependency thing just kinda pales, I think... Nathaniel, Impudite of Lust Demon of In Nomine/XXXenophile Crossovers temujin9@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:56:40 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question > > > What do y'all think: Shedim possession? ;) > > > > No - the tattoo isn't something I (at least) would find morally > > repugnant. But it certainly *looks* fairly demonic... > > Ah, but does it horrify your family? Shedim like > to start small... and the victim never finds out how far > they've gone until the Shedim leaves. Heh-heh-heh. Actually, no. My mom helped me draw it. My girlfriend loves it. And my girlfriend's mother won't know, trust me. ObIN: My girlfriends mother is a wonderful example of a product of Malphas. Even though I am one of the nicest boyfriends Charlott has ever had (and that's not saying much) she goes out of her way looking for reasons to hate me. She loved most of the assholes, though. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 01:13:14 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage [Redneck] >Strength determines how often a character will land a blow that causes >damage. Characters with lower strength may be hitting the target, but their >blows aren't doing anything... except for those few moments when everything >miraculously comes together for them. Does the Strength characteristic apply to situation aside from combat, such as bench pressing cars and putting holes through walls? (Never mind the putting holes through walls, that's combat.) On another note, it seems that Strength in no way describes what a character looks like. A strength 1 character might be as built as world-class weight-lifted, he just can't hit anything with it. Also, a strength 8 character might as small as a mouse, they can still hit you a lot of the time. And you know, this fits very well with a theme of In Nomine: Things are not what they seem. But does the Strength characteristic have application outside of damage in combat and how much damage you can take. What describes how much you can lift, how easily you can bend steel bars? Strength does not seem to fit that description, at least not anymore. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:36:50 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage >[Redneck] >>Strength determines how often a character will land a blow that causes >>damage. Characters with lower strength may be hitting the target, but their >>blows aren't doing anything... except for those few moments when everything >>miraculously comes together for them. > >Does the Strength characteristic apply to situation aside from combat, >such as bench pressing cars and putting holes through walls? (Never mind >the putting holes through walls, that's combat.) > Yes. Strength is overall physical prowess, including both raw power and the ability to use it. Generally speaking, the better able a person is to control their strength, the more they'll be able to do with it- hence, a person with a higher Strength rating will be able to lift heavier things, perform physical feats, etc. no matter what they look like. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:50:13 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) - ---------- > From: Elizabeth McCoy > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: Hell (Was Re: IN> Angels and Souls) > Date: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 3:48 PM > > At 10:32 AM -0500 12/3/97, Emily Dresner wrote: > >> The people in the Janus/Malphas Principality can either be a bunch of > >> slick Robin Hood types and con-men, or desperate, scruffy things, > >> pitifully trying to find something that will make them come to the > >> notice of someone big enough to protect them. > > > >FREUDIAN SLIP ALERT!!! Now we know ALL the secrets. :) > > > >The *VALEFOR*/Malphas Principality is Stygia, just for reference. > > > > "Frotz. Those Balseraphs of the Media were getting into my keyboard > again. Thought I sprayed for those last week! > Thanks, Beth. This gave me a chuckle on a day that I really needed it. Damn. I don't owe you a geas now, do I? :) (Actually, come to think of it, that makes two I owe ya. Darn.) :) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:56:57 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless - ---------- > From: Nathaniel Eliot > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless > Date: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 6:56 PM > > Compared to that, Blandine and Beleth's co-dependency thing just > kinda pales, I think... > Co-dependent? Damn. There's another one that slipped right by me. Now I know perfectly how to play this one. I guess that just goes to show you that I should be *reading* stuff instead of just reading it, if you know what I mean. > > Nathaniel, Impudite of Lust > Demon of In Nomine/XXXenophile Crossovers > temujin9@ix.netcom.com Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:41:09 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> The Angel of Civil Disobedience Dear List a while back I was just on the point of spilling some words into the wordprocessor to send in an interpretation of the Angel of Revolutions when someone, whom I can't find in the posts I still have, sent in a different version which I liked so much it sank my own ideas. The upshot being that those ideas must have circulated for a while in my subconscious and eventually reappeared as a slightly different slant on the subject. Enjoy. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. ***** Ammi-nadab, Elohim of Wind, The Angel of Civil Disobedience "Right actions are right, regardless of the dictates of Society." The Word of Civil Disobedience has had a long and troubled history. Janus says that he was originally directed by God to bestow it on a Mercurian. The otherwise unnamed Mercurian uncontestably held the Word, but was relieved of it because of his close and unrepentant association with the Angels Who Fell. What happened to the Mercurian after that is not recorded. Around the birth of Christ Janus appealed to the Seraphic Council to reactivate the Word and bestow it on an Ofanite of proven credentials. Not surprisingly the Council were sceptical, but support from Dominic and Uriel (who saw the potential to sweep away old pagan societies), Michael (on the urging of the Angel of Revolutions) and Yves (for his own reasons) swayed the Council to agree. The Ofanite, named Horonites (whose motto was "He best serves the State who disobeys it"), served well and faithfully. In his career he inspired many reformers, freedom fighters and martyrs. In part his success became his downfall. Seeking bigger and more sweeping reforms he was seduced by Lillith, with the aid of Malphas, and fell becoming the Demon of Riots. Again the Word fell into disuse, although related activity on Earth continued under the guidance of other Angels. One of these was a former Servitor of Horonites, an Elohim named Ammi-nadab. The Elohim saw areas within which his former Superior's Word could further God's Plan and continued to work quietly alongside the Angel of Revolutions, the Angel of Heresy and the Angel of Perseverance (a Servitor of David). By the late 1800's he had gained sufficient respect amongst his peers to succeed in an application to receive the Word of Civil Disobedience and has worked hard to keep it focused on God's Plan ever since. While Ammi-nadab believes strongly in non violent resistance he also believes that some situations can only be dealt with effectively through violence, although at that point he would suggest his Servitors make way for the Angel of Revolutions. The current Angel of Civil Disobedience has good relations with Michael ("It is good when people struggle for what they believe."), Gabriel ("Passion is no good without Action and he prompts Action.") and Yves ("Those who act and are true to themselves move closer to their Destiny every day".). Lawrence and Marc are less than happy with his shaking of the Corporeal and Celestial order and Dominic keeps a close eye on him in case his desire for action leads him down the same path as his predecessors. Dissonance - Servitors of Civil Disobedience are required to encourage mortals to question and act against the dictates of their society that they (the mortals that is) disagree with. Civil Disobedience's Servitors are also required to provide all possible aid and assistance to mortals who are justly acting against the strictures of their society or culture. Servitor Attunements Question without Notice - Servitors of Civil Disobedience can cause a mortal to reconsider their basic position on an established "truth" of their society or culture. This requires the expenditure of 1 Essence, can only be done once per day to any particular mortal. Soldiers may make a Will roll to resist, Demons will only be effected if they chose to be. We Shall Not Be Moved - Allows a Servitor of Civil Disobedience to bind a group of mortals involved in a mass action against their society or culture into a harmonious whole. While so harmonised no member of the group will fail a Will roll unless every member of the group fails. The group will also maintain good spirits and high morale under the strongest of pressures and will act with uncanny coordination, whether singing, waving banners or resisting violence. Invoking this attunement requires the Servitor to address the group for a short time (generally less than a minute) and the expenditure of one Essence per person. Best tactic is to grab as large a group as you can and use them as a spearhead or anchor for a larger non-attuned group. Rites-for one Essence provide information to a mortal that will allow them to be more effective in resisting an unjust stricture of their society or culture. for two Essence be instrumental in the success of a mass action against unjust strictures within the dominant society or culture. Summoning - Base chance 3. + 1 a flyer calling for a demonstration + 2 a community meeting about a local issue of injustice + 3 a spontaneous demonstration + 4 a march against oppressive societal control by more than 100,000 people + 5 a general strike Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #497 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.