From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Dec 6 03:54:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08185 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:54:18 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id DAA06038 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:50:07 -0600 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:50:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199712060950.DAA06038@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #500 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, December 6 1997 Volume 01 : Number 500 In this digest: Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers IN> [DV] Second Dark Victory PBEM Group Opening Up... Re: IN> Fluff Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers Re: IN> Kyrio question Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage IN> Nybbas Redux IN> Math, WOD and (was IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage) Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers Re: IN> Fluff RE: IN> [DV] Disturbance in Occupied Heaven Re: IN> Gabriel a Sadist? Re: IN> 12 Will Shedite / Cristmas Cheer. Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) IN> Claudine's stats, revised RE: IN> [DV] Disturbance in Occupied Heaven Re: IN> Maths and WoD IN> Gabriel a Sadist IN> Kyriotates in Celestial Form Re: IN> Request for List Superiors Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers RE: IN> [DV] Disturbance in Occupied Heaven Re: IN> Kyriotates in Celestial Form ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:46:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers At 4:40 PM -0500 12/5/97, Rev.The Other Chris wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >> Windy crouched behind something, to Matt: "Hey, love conquers all, right? >> Hand me another grenade." >> >> >> [End trailer with the title of the movie...] >> >Where do I queue? Pass the popcorn! I know, and now *I* want to see it. It's a cruel Nybbasian plot. >LOL, this gave me the best laugh all day. I could hear the voice over >guy doing this as I read it! Oh, good, it amused someone else! >BTW On a related note, is there going to be any IN fiction published? SJG is interested in such things, but I don't know of any hard and fast "Hey, we got an author and we're gonna do a book/comic/ sat.Morning cartoon" announcements. Keep peering at the web-pages and you'll see when they change. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:46:16 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: IN> [DV] Second Dark Victory PBEM Group Opening Up... Well, with the first chapter of the first DVPBEM group winding down, I feel confident enough with the mechanics of this system to start up a second, parallel game. The second group will be operating in the same game-time as the first group. Other than that, I don't know what those groups will be doing. As a result, I'm calling for applicants to submit -any- type of character: ANGELIC - Angels serving the Superiors of New Heaven. NEO-ANGELIC - Demons serving the Superiors of New Heaven. ORPHAN - Angels whose Superiors are dead, captured, Fallen or depowered, or who have no contact with New Heaven. Orphans have no Rites, cannot summon their Superior, and cannot ascend to Heaven, and get 5 extra Character Points at creation. RENEGADE - Demons serving nobody, running from Hell for whatever reason; perhaps their Superior is dead, perhaps they're looking for New heaven to join up, or perhaps they just don't want to be bossed around. Create as per the Renegade rules in the IN Rulebook. DEMONIC - Demons in service to Hell. If their Superior is dead or joined New Heaven, list them as "Servitor of 'x' in service to Kronos" and treat them as parallels to Eli's Servitors in service to other Archangels in the IN Rulebook. (If you want to be a Servitor of a DP I haven't written up yet, don't worry; the only stat change for those remaining will be in Relations.) What -kind- of group it is will depend on the initial response- if I get a majority of Orphans, for instance, I'll have the group assemble in, say, New Orleans and be trying to reach Austin. If it's majority Demonic, I'll have the group in Europe somewhere, scheming and plotting while they work on completing the destruction of Humanity. Players whose characters are in the minority will be asked to create new characters- I want to keep things as coherent as possible, and two groups breaking up and reforming is quite enough; I don't need three or more. I'm also welcoming lurkers to both groups. The players still active in the first group are -welcome- to submit characters, but should be warned that -new- players will have priority. Barring some really serendipitous circumstances, I'm imposing a hard limit of six players for the new group, whatever its nature is. Rules for my PBEMs are on the DVPBEM site. Looking forward to your characters... Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:25:07 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Fluff >At 3:48 PM -0600 12/5/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >>But is she a Servitor of Haagenti or Andrealphus? }:-{D >> >>Haagenti: "You Need this Barbie RC Roadster." >> >>Andre: "You've Needed to do this for a loooooong time, honey...." > >Nybbas, and she reports to the Demon of Toy Commercials, who is >a Habbie. Interesting twist, but that works. >(Have you *seen* the Barbie commercials where they have her moving, >sort of like stop-motion stuff? It's just a little "off" and is >*creepy*!) To me, just about everything about Barbie is 'off.' Personally, I think Barbie's parents are millionaires just so she can be a dentist/vet/cowgirl/fashion model/star athelete/businesswoman/younameit and at the same time go play -every day- with Ken and Skipper and Ginger and Kelly and Gods Knows Who Else in the three dream houses, five cars, RV, horses... ... and let's just not GO into her closet, shall we? }:-{D >Either that, or she's the only Free in existance who has good dealings >with Nybbas, Haagenti, Andre, and Mammon all at once. One can only wonder what her relationship with -Christopher- is like, though... Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:20:37 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers At 5:38 PM -0800 12/5/97, The Saint of Killers wrote: >(And speaking of the INC, which we weren't, I feel hurt that my shot at >immortality, my various archangels and princes, haven't yet been added. Really, >I cry myself to sleep at night.) Just as a note -- anything that arrives pre-HTML'ed and formatted and stuff... goes up quickly. Very quickly. Check the pages for some stuff that went up quickly... (And then there's all the stuff that Casca sent that I'm working on... I got to a fair amount of it!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 19:51:46 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Kyrio question [Ms Hart] > I can't remember if this is in the book, but what happens if a Kyrio > tries to possess a host that is already being possessed by another Kyrio > (or Shedite)? [Gant] >The host gets a terrible migrane as the Kyriotate and the Shedim have a >Celestial battle INSIDE him for control. Or maybe everybody makes a Will >roll each round, and the winner gets control for that round. Or maybe the >Kyriotate and the Shedim get control of random parts of the host. > >I actually have no canonical idea. I just like my suggestions. Hey, neat. The human, if she succeeds her roll, as an equal chance of gaining control of herself, since the degree of success is 1-6. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 20:19:24 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Kevin Walsh >> But what's canon? I'm still not convinced that the Strength rating has to >> do with how strong you are. It _does_ relate to how much damage you can >> take, and how often you win hit someone in combat, > >No, it's how often you can hit with _effect_. A failed punch can be >described as "You hit him, but he shrugged it off". Cool. >however, according to >> the text, I have found nothing that tells me that it reflects muscle mass, > >To quote the text (and no challenge is intended to copyright), p25, >paragraph 2... > "For example, a Strength of 10, which is an impressive amount, doesn't >just mean an angel can pick up far more weight than most people...it will >also be reflected in his personality. He may carry his huge frame with >pride or he may be shy about his stature - words which tell more about >him than any single number." > >So yes, it does reflect muscle mass, size and weight-lifting ability. :) Oh, good. Thank you. I was wondering where something like that was. I seem to have trouble finding little things like that. Oh, wow. I haven't looked at the page in a while. Hmmm... "In Nomine isn't about math..." Oh, dear... :) >> I guess I'm *not* willing to *not* see a distinction between Strength and >> Agility. The little kid who connects often, but not with as much force as the >> Giant, who can kill you with a bear-hug, but is too slow to be terribly >effective. > >I think the combat system is oversimplistic, because it doesn't have a >"to hit" with Agility element, in addition to damaging with Strength, but >that was almost inevitable with a system designed to be as quick (as >opposed to realistic) as possible. I agree. I guess GURPS has me trained to aim for realism. I've decided that my first house rule is that Fighting can be based upon Strength - -or- Agility. >> >> Upon hitting a wall, a Strength 1 character leaves the same size hole as >> a Strength 8 character, since the hole size would be determined by the >> amount of damage. > >No, because when hitting a wall, you still have to roll Strength (by my >interpretation). Anyway, how the hell are you breaking a wall with your >bare hands? Even with Strength 12, that's silly. I've seen holes punched through walls. Not sturdy walls, no, but... And I agree, it *is* silly. :) >Same for breaking weapons and anything else. If damage >> is not directly related to Strength score, then...? >> >Exceptional Strength does extra damage in brawl combat. Plus you are more >likely to hit in a way that does damage, in addition to being able to >take more. > >And don't forget the automatic success rule. Yup, Perry Lloyd, Memory Master 9000. That's me. :) - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:20:18 -0500 From: "bruce dykes" Subject: IN> Nybbas Redux > ------------------------------ > Yeah.... funny that. I noticed that as well. Everyone is working through > Nybbas, except the Old Guard who is circling horses and building walls > between themselves and everyone else. Baal, Asmodeus and Kronos are sort > of off on their own, promoting their Words the old way, but they are > getting promoted ANYWAYS, just as a side effect. Everyone else needs a > 'special' relationship with Nybbas, even Vapula just to get the media > distributed on a wide scale. Even Saminga is getting promoted in small, > mild ways... trashy industrial music, war on CNN, famine in Ethopia on the > 11 o'clock news. Actually, I see Saminga's most recent push in the media was the "Vampire Chic" trend which started with Anne Rice, and died with Aaron Spelling's "Kindred" TV series based V:tM. Saminga himself is far too oblivious to the potential of the media to have an official presence, but maybe some of his more enterprising servitors seek out Nybbas' services on their own initiative. See, the thing about Nybbas is that he isn't big on long term attention spans. He's primarily interested in the churn, so long term promotion of Lust and Gluttony has to be actively pursued, media is only one more tool for promotion. Nybbas' long term plans revolve around signing up cable subscribers, getting tvs out to *everybody*, reducing program time to pack in more commercials, convincing people that "Friends" in HDTV is better than "Friends" in regular TV, etc. > I wonder a bit about Nybbas's soaring power, and scratch my chin. I > have NPCs who work for Nybbas. He's promoting a very odd side of > Creativity, even if it's trash, isn't he? > - - Em You probably missed my first Note about Nybbas. In it I pointed out that he *really* hates Eli. TV programs produced by Eli's people are sharp, intelligent and thought provoking, and wind up claiming 20% of TV print coverage, and have lifespans that run in the decades, even though only a handful of episodes ever are produced. Such programs generally find themselves in the ratings basement fairly quickly. Meanwhile, Nybbas' programming is derivative and vapid, and while they enjoy successful short term runs, they generally won"t run past ten years, even in syndication. Nybbas is more concerned with cross licensing. He'd rather produce stuff that was previously a comic book or tv show than anything truly original. Of course, what really sticks in his craw are RPGs . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 20:42:48 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: IN> Math, WOD and (was IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage) Steve Jessop >On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Kevin Walsh wrote: > >> As a WOD player, and as a result of a half-attempt to do In Nomine-WOD >> system conversion, I reckoned that 2 In Nomine Strength equalled 1 WOD >> Strength (rounded up). > >WOD: 'Average' difficulty (6), 1 die: probability of success 1/2 > >IN: 'Average' difficulty (no mods), Strength 2, probability of success >1/36. > >WOD: 'Very Difficult' (10), 1 die: probability of success 1/10. > >IN: Strength 6, probability of success 15/36. Still less than 1/2. > > >The systems don't really compare at all. > >Steve Jessop, Jean's Elohim of Mathematicians With Nowt Better To Do. Ha ha ha!! Now *this* funny. A human has a 1/36 chance of crushing a pop can! AH ha! Whoops, forgot "Automatic Success" again. He he he... And comparing it to GURPS: average attribute/characteristic is 10, and on 3d6, the chance of success is 50%. Compared to In Nomine's 2.7% Ha ha ha!!! That's awesome. Wait... but average stat is 4 for humans, at least in the spheres they use on a regular basis. And if average skill is 2 then that makes average total skill 6. That yields, what? Probability of success of 50%? I'm guessing. Steve? Elohim of Mathematics? (:} - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:03:39 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers AA Beth wrote (without the hat on, I assume): >At 4:40 PM -0500 12/5/97, Rev.The Other Chris wrote: >>Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>> >>> Windy crouched behind something, to Matt: "Hey, love conquers all, right? >>> Hand me another grenade." >>> >>> >>> [End trailer with the title of the movie...] >>> >>Where do I queue? Pass the popcorn! > >I know, and now *I* want to see it. It's a cruel Nybbasian plot. > >LOL, this gave me the best laugh all day. I could hear the voice over >guy doing this as I read it! LOL!! Me, too!! Oh, my God, I fear my chortling may have disturbed the people down the hall. "Perry, are you okay?" Oh, dear... the tears in my eyes... I really need to filter through my e-mail more often... > Oh, good, it amused someone else! > >>BTW On a related note, is there going to be any IN fiction published? > >SJG is interested in such things, but I don't know of any hard >and fast "Hey, we got an author and we're gonna do a book/comic/ >sat.Morning cartoon" announcements. Keep peering at the web-pages >and you'll see when they change. Dude... That'd be whacked. :) I like it. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:12:30 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Fluff From: Emily Dresner >> Or, we could just run an IN game with every annoying character >> this list can think up and prey on poor, unsuspecting >> Con-ners... >> >> Heh heh, I can picture it now: >> Kyrios abound in the game where Laurence dances in a >> tu-tu, Dominic is a Balseraph, Kobal is a toon, and Malakim are >> demons.....not to mention all the other twisted stuff we think >> up... >> > >Wait... wait... don't I run this game on alternate thursdays? > >Get out of my plot notebook, or I'll sick my Lilim on you. :) > >- Em Oh, for a while, I thought you'd said "stick" my Lilim on you... He he he... Lilim Post-It Notes... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:30:16 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: RE: IN> [DV] Disturbance in Occupied Heaven > One of the players in the Dark Victory PBEM campaign brought up the >following point when a Superior manifested nearby, but somewhere where he >couldn't be seen directly. > > The players are currently in the occupied Eternal City (you can >catch up on things at http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ if you aren't >following it already), and the player pointed out that since this is Heaven, >a Dark Prince would make more noise appearing out of nowhere than an >Archangel would, being demonic and all. > > I don't own Heaven and Hell, and I don't know what the canon is on >Disturbing the Symphony is there, but I ruled as follows: > > (1) Actions such as Songs, Invocations, use of Essence (as opposed >to exchange of Essence from one Celestial to another) and the sudden >manifestation of a Superior in response to Invocation all disturb the >Symphony in Celestial realms. A Superior just walking around, OTOH, wouldn't. > > (2) In Dark Victory, Heaven has been desecrated, and the Upper >Heavens have been removed from the Universe altogether. (As far as anybody >can tell.) Angel and Demon are on equal footing there now, except there's a >LOT more Demons than Angels around. > > (3) Ergo, a Dark Prince manifesting makes just as much of a BANG as >an Archangel.> > > That's how it's being played in the current PBEM game. Any comments >or corrections which should be made for the future? > > Redneck A few disclaimers. First, you're the GM, so it's your universe anyway. Second, I'm speaking as a person, not as a player (although players are people, too!) I'm wondering if the diabolicals have occupied Heaven long enough for them to make less disturbance in it as they would have before? There are parts of heaven that have *not* been destroyed, so Heaven still has a chance, maybe only a chance in Hell, but (sorry, had to say it)... It means that Heaven in NOT just another part of Hell. It's not Hell. Hmmmm... Does it makes sense that the angels would still have the Home Team advantage? I don't know. Depends how much you want to give Angels the shaft, how much you want to oppose them with, in order to make their eventual defeat more understandable (or their eventual victory that much sweeter). Anyway, that's my two cents. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:35:58 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Gabriel a Sadist? > >>>Gabby is *definately* a sadist. No doubts about it.<<< > > Really? I have doubts. > > Gabriel likes punishing the cruel, but it doesn't say anything about > her deriving pleasure from their suffering. She punishes the cruel > because it's just, not because she gets off on torturing them. It's a joke, trust me. The thought of her and Belial getting off in a twisted S&M scene fit too well into her desire to "punish" him... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:42:48 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> 12 Will Shedite / Cristmas Cheer. On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Kevin Walsh wrote: > That argument wouldn't apply in this particular case. A better check > would be Symphony disturbances every time he body-hops. (How many > security guards can you blow up before they start noticing?) And my > character was pretty good at blowing things up herself. But she's not > thick, so she didn't even try. If you want to make that a house rule, fine, but Canon is that he does *not* make any disturbance when he hops. In fact, if he did, I can't see why anyone would want to play a Shedim! THey'd be the only Celestials in the game with resonance that causes a disturbance automatically! > I can't remember if IN gives an answer, but if not I would > > probably say that the host often comes completely to their senses, > > But aren't they called "The Corruptors"? Why would they be called that if > it was only a temporary thing? Maybe, just maybe, they've lost those > inhibitions _forever_. That head of security may never feel qualms about > selling security tapes ever again... If he corrupted them gradually, I'd imagine it would stay. If he posessed a normal guy and made him shoot his friend right away, I'd say the guy freaks when the Shedite leaves and tries to figure out why he did that. > And then there's the Malakite. Do you reckon he would subsequently feel > qualms about shooting his comrades again? What? He possessed a Malakite? I hate to break this to you, but Shedim CANNOT POSSESS CELESTIALS. Unless that demon knew the Song of Possession, the GM screwed up. No celestials, no animals. Humans ONLY. > With the scenario given, it's really beyond personal. I expect much > better enemy backup (I think it's only four Angels we've encountered so > far) now. Which is kind of bad, because my character is severely injured > and two out of four of us are almost out of Essence. That's a problem with any group, and it's how things always end up coming under control anyways...eventually, you're gonna run out of Essence, and then go up against a team fresh from the celestial plane with a full tank. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! - -= Windows 95 =- A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:03:13 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > And, currently, in a move that is sure to make many folk happy... > Shedim can body-jump two ways. Way #1: They go celestial between > hosts, with the attendant Symphonic noise and chance to be spotted. > Way #2: with *physical contact* and *extra time*, they can "ooze" from > one host to another, making no Symphonic noise, and not manifesting > celestially at all. This is different than what has previously been quoted as "canon" on the list, you know. The last note on this was that Shedim could jump from one body to another with standard Resonance modifiers (for distance, etc.) and no disturbance, taking one combat round to do so. Why the change? Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! - -= Windows 95 =- A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:05:44 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, The Saint of Killers wrote: > > (And speaking of the INC, which we weren't, I feel hurt that my shot at > immortality, my various archangels and princes, haven't yet been added. Really, > I cry myself to sleep at night.) Aw, don't feel bad. I posted a very nice Shedite of Trends (Nybbas) which was loved by all (okay, maybe they didn't SAY it, but I *know* it) and it's not up. Beth is picky. :) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! - -= Windows 95 =- A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:18:00 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) > Kyrios specifically say "multiple vessels," and so they are allowed > to take over vessels. I think. I don't. I'm having a hard time rationalizing why they can handle, say, six Vessels owned by their friends, but still can't form ANY of their own. There's also the problem that how many separate places a Kyrio can be in at a time is determined by how many Forces it has...and Vessels don't -HAVE- intrinsic Forces the way Symphonic creatures (animals and humans) do. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:27:40 -0600 (CST) From: "Austin G. Loomis" Subject: IN> Claudine's stats, revised Well, after I got my copy of _Heaven and Hell_, I realized I should have waited before I concluded the Claudine writeup, because there're a number of things in Zadkiel's listing that the Angel of Forgiveness ought to have. So, without further or even nearer ado, herewith the revised stats on Claudine. Corporeal Forces 3 Strength 4, Agility 8 Ethereal Forces 5 Intelligence 10 (Mind 50), Precision 10 Celestial Forces 4 Will 12 (Soul 48), Perception 6) Total Forces: 12 Vessel: Human/1 (Body 16, charisma +2 from MoZ attunement below) Role: Student/4 Skills: Artistry (acting/2, folk dance/3), Chemistry/1, Cooking (Preci- sion)/2, Emote/2, Fast-Talk/1, Suffer Fools Gladly (Will)/3 Songs: Charm (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/2, Celestial/2), Dreams (Corporeal /3, Celestial/2), Harmony (Corporeal/2, Ethereal/3, Celestial /3), Light (Corporeal/1), Projection (Corporeal/1) Attunements: Seraph of Novalis, Cherub of Novalis, Mercurian of Novalis, Crown of Joy, Master of Peace, Angel of Repentance, Divine Forgiveness (see below), Mercurian of Zadkiel, Aura of Divinity, Vassal of Protection Discord: Lustful/2 Special Rites: help the inept for an hour (+1), lead a sinner to repent (+2) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:47:29 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: RE: IN> [DV] Disturbance in Occupied Heaven >A few disclaimers. First, you're the GM, so it's your universe anyway. >Second, I'm speaking as a person, not as a player (although players are >people, too!) I'm wondering if the diabolicals have occupied Heaven long >enough for them to make less disturbance in it as they would have before? For my money, it isn't a matter of time, it's a matter of stripping Heaven of the quality which makes demons stand out in its environment. >There are parts of heaven that have *not* been destroyed, But no part which has not been occupied, desecrated, or attacked in some way by the demons- except for Lucifer's Lighthouse, which occupies nearly the same space as Blandine's tower did. >It means that Heaven in NOT just another part of Hell. It's not Hell. >Hmmmm... No, it's not. An Angel in Hell would make noise by its very existence, as before. >Does it makes sense that the angels would still have the Home Team >advantage? I don't know. Depends how much you want to give Angels the >shaft, how much you want to oppose them with, in order to make their >eventual defeat more understandable (or their eventual victory that much >sweeter). Angels don't have a home stadium in DV, much. They've got a toehold in Heaven, a toenailhold in the Marches, and a state that thinks it's a nation on Earth. Everyplace else they go, there's demons and hostile pagan gods looking to fry them. It'll be a long, hard road to victory for the Preservers, if they win at all... Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:32:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Maths and WoD On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: > Ha ha ha!! Now *this* funny. A human has a 1/36 chance of crushing a > pop can! AH ha! Whoops, forgot "Automatic Success" again. He he he... No, but for that (wimpy) human to automatically succeed at a strength roll barring that rule, he would need a +10 or better modifier. Which is quite a lot, really. If you stick to the guideline that +2 is 'hideously easy' (or whatever), you would probably give auto success rather than a +4 mod. The same +4, if given for other reasons (Essence), boosts the human to 6 - just under 50%. The point being, IN mechanics are intended as a rough guide for the GM to play with. WoD and GURPS are intended as smooth systems for the GM to fine tune. A valid difference of design purpose. > And comparing it to GURPS: average attribute/characteristic is 10, and > on 3d6, the chance of success is 50%. Compared to In Nomine's 2.7% > Ha ha ha!!! That's awesome. Which means that with 'normal' human strength being 3-4, a no-mods roll would be defined as 'That feat of strength which a typical human will successfully perform on 2.78%-5.56% of occasions'. Whereas in fact, since IN is not a realistic game, we define it as 'That feat of strength for which the GM is going to give you your basic chance of succeeding. Now roll.' The point being that an average action in GURPS is nothing like an average action in IN. But both include 'hitting someone with something' (OK, accuracy makes some difference here). It doesn't matter, since both games are still Fun To Play. Can anyone who has played GURPS IN tell me whether it runs anything like the same? Is a 25 pt human roughly equivalent to a 5 Force human? > Wait... but average stat is 4 for humans, at least in the spheres they > use on a regular basis. And if average skill is 2 then that makes > average total skill 6. That yields, what? Probability of success of > 50%? I'm guessing. Good point. But humans barely ever make default skill rolls in IN, because 3 is only half as likely as 4. They do in GURPS, occasionally. 42% btw. > Steve? Elohim of Mathematics? (:} OK. Modelling Theory ain't my speciality. But my point was simply that WoD is different from IN. As I said before, they don't directly compare. I forgot to mention that I never expected them to. If you tell me what the modifier was for my exams last year, I'll tell you what my Intelligence+Mathematics is :-) As for Elohite: you can tell because it's dissonant for us to use multiple punctuation. Steve Jessop. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:40:49 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Gabriel a Sadist >>>>Gabriel likes punishing the cruel, but it doesn't say anything about her deriving pleasure from their suffering. She punishes the cruel because it's just, not because she gets off on torturing them. She's an Ofinate not a Elohim<<< Yes, and your point is...? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:40:51 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Kyriotates in Celestial Form >>>My fix was to let them have their Celestial form around indefinately, but not to let them move it from adjacent to the Host from which it was generated. This means they can see Celestial things better and do Celestial combat, but can't walk through walls and posses Hosts inside buildings. My Kyrios didn't complain [too much :) ].<<< That takes away from their multiplicity, though. I don't see it as a "problem" that needs fixing, but then, I've never had a problem dealing with players that figure out annoying ways to munchkinize the rules.... ;) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:03:26 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Request for List Superiors On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Emily Dresner wrote: > The Archangel of Archives has muchly to do, unfortunately. Well, if you folks stopped turning out such good stuff for a while, maybe we'd get caught up before the heat death of the universe. ;) - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:19:19 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 5:38 PM -0800 12/5/97, The Saint of Killers wrote: > > >(And speaking of the INC, which we weren't, I feel hurt that my shot at > >immortality, my various archangels and princes, haven't yet been added. Really, > >I cry myself to sleep at night.) Don't worry, I've got them on my mailspool. If ArchBeth doesn't put them up in what I consider to be a fair amount of time, I'll forward them to her with a note saying "Put these on your webpage!" It's worked pretty well thus far.....(though she STILL hasn't put up the Malakim of Media stuff I sent her ages ago.) > > (And then there's all the stuff that Casca sent that I'm working > on... I got to a fair amount of it!) Indeed? In that case, I'll send the next barrage. Mustn't let you sit idle now... ;;;) - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 01:47:29 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: RE: IN> [DV] Disturbance in Occupied Heaven From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) >>A few disclaimers. First, you're the GM, so it's your universe anyway. >>Second, I'm speaking as a person, not as a player (although players are >>people, too!) I'm wondering if the diabolicals have occupied Heaven long >>enough for them to make less disturbance in it as they would have before? > >For my money, it isn't a matter of time, it's a matter of stripping Heaven >of the quality which makes demons stand out in its environment. Cool. >>There are parts of heaven that have *not* been destroyed, > >But no part which has not been occupied, desecrated, or attacked in some way >by the demons- except for Lucifer's Lighthouse, which occupies nearly the >same space as Blandine's tower did. Ah, okay. >>Does it makes sense that the angels would still have the Home Team >>advantage? I don't know. Depends how much you want to give Angels the >>shaft, how much you want to oppose them with, in order to make their >>eventual defeat more understandable (or their eventual victory that much >>sweeter). > >Angels don't have a home stadium in DV, much. They've got a toehold in >Heaven, a toenailhold in the Marches, and a state that thinks it's a nation >on Earth. Everyplace else they go, there's demons and hostile pagan gods >looking to fry them. Gotcha. Fun... How... fun. Well, I *am* having fun with DVPBEM. It's certainly harrowing, although I'm sure I haven't seen nothing yet. :) >It'll be a long, hard road to victory for the Preservers, if they win at all... Reminds me of: "I wanna live, I wanna love, it's a long, hard road out of Hell." -Long Hard Road Out of Hell Marilyn Manson & Sneaker Pimps I don't think it's the original; the above is from the Spawn soundtrack. Not the best for DVPBEM, but good for In Nomine in general. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:43:58 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates in Celestial Form At 12:40 AM 6/12/97 -0500, you wrote: >>>>My fix was to let them have their Celestial form around indefinately, >but not to let them move it from adjacent to the Host from which it was >generated. This means they can see Celestial things better and do >Celestial combat, but can't walk through walls and posses Hosts inside >buildings. My Kyrios didn't complain [too much :) ].<<< > >David replied >That takes away from their multiplicity, though. Nope they can still possess multiple things, they just have to get one Host to where it can see (or otherwise sense if they are willing to take targeting penalties) their target Host. What it does is stop them generating an extra "free ranging" point of view that you can't stop short of having celestial proof force fields everywhere. >David said >I don't see it as a "problem" that needs fixing, but then, I've never had a >problem dealing with players that figure out annoying ways to munchkinize >the rules.... ;) Wow, quick get the tranq guns and nets, reasonable players, we may never see the like again :) . My players are pretty reasonable when push comes to shove, the threatened "Dissonance for Rules Lawyering" idea helped, but no player I know of won't try to get some sort of edge, myself included :) . Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #500 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.