From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Dec 8 21:45:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA12666 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:45:46 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA22706 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:37:45 -0600 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:37:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199712090337.VAA22706@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #505 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, December 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 505 In this digest: Re: IN> Not such [FLUFF]: Madonna and celestial tampering Re: IN> Not such [FLUFF]: Madonna and celestial tampering Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows IN> Campaign Seed: Second Fall/Second Chance IN> Hellhounds Re: IN> Campaign Seed: Second Fall/Second Chance IN> Creativity Re: IN> Hellhounds Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers Re: IN> Creativity Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> Hellhounds Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> The Demons of Celebrity Stalkers & Stalking Re: IN> INO & Popular Entertainment Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers Re: IN> Hellhounds Re: IN> Campaign Seed: Second Fall/Second Chance Re: IN> Hellhounds IN> author Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:09:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Not such [FLUFF]: Madonna and celestial tampering > > And I absolutely agree with you that in WOD the super powers pretty much > run the world, to a degree that makes humans irrelevant, and those of us > writing In Nomine try very hard to avoid that syndrome here. > In the WOD, every player character is irrelevant. You're all being manipulated by the Antediluvians, the Technocracy, the Nephandi, the Malfeans, etc. etc. Seriously, there are valid reasons for In Nomine to have a different take on the matter. For example, there is the basic question. If not for Free Will, why did the Demons fall in the first place? And I failed to see any truly mind-controlling powers like Dominate, Presence ,the Mind Sphere, Chicanery, etc. etc. in In Nomine. Even the resonances of the Habbalah and Balseraphs don't match them, having a duration in hours only. The closest things I saw to match them were the attunements of the Cherubs of Janus and the Djinn of Valefor, but they carry obligations with them, unlike the mind-control in WOD. So the mechanics support the idea that Free Will is present in the In Nomine setting, thus leaving at least this part of it consistent with most standard theology. In Nomine is about Free Will, whether you stay in the mold you are given or whether you choose your own beliefs. The World of Darkness can offer the same options, but in a world where Free Will is not an intrinsic part of the fabric of reality, where it is merely something to be stamped out by the powers behind the scenes, control of oneself is of necessity much harder. Of course, even in the WOD, some people manage to evade control. I'm pretty sure Napoleon and Hitler are mentioned in this context. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 15:08:08 -0500 From: Jesse Rooney Subject: Re: IN> Not such [FLUFF]: Madonna and celestial tampering >YOU made Dylan and Hitler and half the presidents Soldiers in your game. If >you don't like it, why make so many pivotal figures celestial pawns? Actually my GM made them soilders, I would rather not have them involved at all. I was just ranting about WOD messy histroy. For example, in WOD canon Rapstuin (the Mad Monk) is a vampire. Havving so many historical figures as supernatural just makes it seem less realtistic and more like a comic book or a Robert Anton Williams novel. Not that RAW's writting is bad, just the opposite but to often the designers and GM's writting is poor. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 15:28:23 -0500 From: Jesse Rooney Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows I was just thinkikng about the title we have but on this media debate- [FLUFF]. Is it Fluff? In one way yes in that we have labeled anything that deviates from this list's proppose but in another way this "fluff" is much more real than our typical converstions about a sharred dream- the In Nomine reality. Because Pop cluture is more immportant to the rest of the world shouldn't we label IN stuff as "fluff" as it has much less of an impact on the world? Personally I find this discusion much more interesting than the mechanics of Shedim and Strength discussions going on. I know I am invitting the typical Buddhist/Discordian response: "Everything is real in one sense..." but hey it is just something to think about. 5 tons of flax, - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:59:59 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows > I was just thinkikng about the title we have but on this media debate- > [FLUFF]. Is it Fluff? In one way yes in that we have labeled anything > that deviates from this list's proppose but in another way this "fluff" is > much more real than our typical converstions about a sharred dream- the In > Nomine reality. Because Pop cluture is more immportant to the rest of the > world shouldn't we label IN stuff as "fluff" as it has much less of an > impact on the world? Personally I find this discusion much more > interesting than the mechanics of Shedim and Strength discussions going on. > I know I am invitting the typical Buddhist/Discordian response: > "Everything is real in one sense..." but hey it is just something to think > about. > Yes, it's FLUFF, and it's way off list topic. And I'm glad someone put it there before someone else (*cough* ME *cough*) got on and pointed out that while it's all entertaining and all that, the conversation has nothing to do with In Nomine and is getting out of hand. Let's look where it's being sent, folks, and try to keep it to a minimum, please. If you want to argue Pop Culture, I wave my hand at thousands of alt newsgroups. Okay? Back to the Shedim. So, anyone notice that Dominic has a striking resemblance to a Balseraph? - -Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:41:46 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows >Back to the Shedim. So, anyone notice that Dominic has a striking >resemblance to a Balseraph? > Or maybe Malphas has been possessing the poor old man, hm? }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:58:25 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows > >Back to the Shedim. So, anyone notice that Dominic has a striking > >resemblance to a Balseraph? > > > Or maybe Malphas has been possessing the poor old man, hm? }:-{D > I thought of that, actually, for a while. But then even that was too goofy. So what HAPPENS when a Shedite Superior decides to have fun in the Waking World? Do people's heads explode? Is it like the Exorcist? What? - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 17:00:07 EST From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Campaign Seed: Second Fall/Second Chance Here's a campaign seed that might be of use. - ---- I was wondering why Michael is so distrustful of Yves. There had to be a good reason why Michael disliked Yves and a good reason why Heaven seems to ignore him. (Hey, disbelieving the most powerful Seraph in the universe when he tells you something seems like a singularly bad plan to me!) The idea is pretty simple, actually. Yves's word is Destiny, and he seeks to bring the Symphony to not just a good end, but the best of all possible ends. Michael, a seraph, sees problems with this. His resonance for truth tells him that the course of action that leads to the best possible Destiny also, with only a few tiny changes, leads mankind to its worst possible Fate. Seeing this requires such an intimate connection with the Symphony that only Michael, most powerful of the seraphim, can manage it. The Archangel of War knows Clausewitz's dictum -- "In war, everything is very simple, but even the simplest things are very hard" -- and prefers a more safer, conservative approach: stop Hell and let humanity sort out its own problems. Besides being safer, this also seems more in keeping with God's free will thing. (And staying on God's good side is *definitely* safer!) However, Yves (and his very scary Divine Logic attunement) carried the Seraphim Council, and this is why Michael stepped down from his position as commander of the Host. As it stands, this is a fairly bright story -- both of them are trying to do right, and they just have an honest disagreement about the right way to proceed. If you want to darken the principals somewhat, you also gain an explanation of Eli's absence. Here goes.... Yves is Falling. The Archangel of Destiny has been privy to God's plans for so long that he has come to believe that any of his plans must also be God's plans, and acts out of pride. And the angels of the Host accept Yves's words as God's, and thus sin against Him, and lead mankind to the Pit. (The dissonance of treating Yves as God is what drove Gabriel mad...and Dominic ceased his inquest of her at Yves's request, which warped him and changed him from Justice, which is fair, to Judgement, which is arbitrary.) Michael, the Archangel of War, mightiest of the seraphim, has heard God's displeasure echo through the Symphony, and he fears. The celestials have rebelled against God once already; God will be less merciful a second time. He has begged the angels to repent, but his words are not heeded, and now, he begins to feel the word of War stir within him, demanding the destruction of the Host. Soon, the will of God will be unmistakeable, and Michael will have to kill all the angels in Heaven. Michael is scared out of his mind, and so he seeks out an angel with a totally different perspective for advice. He talks with Eli, the Archangel of Creation, and together they hatch a desperate plan: Michael will destroy the Host, and Eli will create a new race of angels to people the Heavens. And maybe God will permit a few celestials to continue to live, because of the loyalty of the faithful angels. After all, there are faithful angels, and surely God won't destroy a faithful angel because his brother endangers mankind? Maybe, but the example of the Grigori offers no comfort.... Creating beings with free will is hard -- that's why Eli is on Earth, studying mankind. (Michael and Eli are not at all willing to try this stunt before genuinely free-willed replacements for the angels can be made; God takes a very, very dim view of angels creating slaves.) Michael also spends almost all his time on Earth -- he's trying to demonstrate that there are still faithful angels, in order to stay God's wrath as long as he can, and buy time for Eli. This seed would probably work best if the PCs are mostly servitors of Eli, Michael, Yves, or Dominic. It can also work if the PC are demons, trying to disrupt Eli's plans so that Hell can assault an empty Heaven. Also, if I ran it, I would leave the Earth more or less untouched, and save the turmoil for the Celestial plane. That way you can draw nice contrasts between the day-to-day life on Earth to the desperate heroics the situation in Heaven demands. Adventure seeds: o Michael orders the party to capture a Lilim. (Eli needs to study one, to see how celestials are created without divine intervention.) The Lilim does not want to go with the nice Malakim of War, and for some reason Kronos, Yves, and half the angels and demons in the universe are involved. If you want to be really cruel, the PCs are ordered to capture *Lilith*. o There are strange echoes in the Symphony; the party is ordered to find out what's going on. They discover a strange new type of celestial, not a familiar type of angel or demon, but not an Ethereal spirit either. What's going on? o The PC's are clued in by whatever means. Which side are they going to choose? Michael and Eli, Yves and the Host, or are they going to be too busy fighting off the demonic offensive that results from a split in the forces of Heaven? o Aftermath 1: Michael vaporizes Heaven. Eli makes new angels. The PCs are spared since they spend a lot of time on the ground fighting for humanity. How are they going to react to their new Heavenly superiors? (More fun if the PCs are allowed to *pick* their new Superiors.) Maybe Michael wasn't as thorough as he could have been, and your old Superior is a Demon Prince(ss) in Hell. o Free will is a bummer: The new angels have their own Fall. How will Hell react to having a half dozen new Bands and Demon Princes? How will God react to this development? What do you do when your archangel Falls? o Aftermath 2: Yves wins. Michael is Outcast, and Eli's Forces are disbanded. What do you do if your Superior is an Outcast? If the players join Heaven, are you going to tell Dominic where to find Eli's Remnant? Or demon PCs: congratulations, you have been chosen to tempt Michael! Hope you have your life insurance paid up, and by the way, Baal is not happy with this plan. o Oops, God is po'ed: Uriel comes back to clean up Heaven, now that Michael and Eli failed. He wins. Easily. Yves and half the Host slink off to the Pit, where they can fight Lucifer for dominion over Hell. Angel PCs: just how are you supposed to oppose Novalis, Demon Princess of Thorns? (Or Psychedelia, if you are feeling silly.) Questions and permutations: o Is God just? The potential destruction of Heaven for listening to Yves ought to seem a little extreme, but then, it might mean the damnation of mankind. Is it fair that God values human souls more than angelic ones? (Eli would say yes, but he's a Mercurian....) o Are Michael and Eli doing the right thing? Maybe the stress of bearing words as general as War and Creation has unhinged them both. After all, neither one is known as being particularly good for humanity -- shell shocked soldiers and insane artists are so common as to be proverbial. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:55:56 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: IN> Hellhounds I found this on WEB-RPG and my first responce was "This ain't legel." Can I get a second opinion on this? @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Idea: Servants are an inexpensive way to multiply your forces. An idea I had was for a REALLY POWERFUL servant, the Hellhound. Here's how it works: Servant rules state that you create the Servant like you would a Character, complete with Discord, if you want it...so: Buy a Familiar. Give it very low Will, so that it will have a difficult time resisting your orders. Give it an animal Vessel, usu. a large dog. Then, give it SIX levels of the Bound Discord. This gives you 18 points to add to the Familiar's combat skills, tracking skills, whatever...If you want to go really nuts, give it two levels of Negative Charisma, so it looks really, really mean and scary. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:47:45 -0800 From: "Keith Phemister" Subject: Re: IN> Campaign Seed: Second Fall/Second Chance Umm... WOW! You know, I've been amazed on a surprisingly regular basis by the sheer amount of quality that cranks through this list. I like the way that the campaign can be inserted into an ongoing campaign. Especially if you've been portraying Yves as the "kindly old grandpa" stereotype, and Michael as a heavenly George S. Patton. I'd set it up thus; Start an IN campaign just like any other, with the PCs being mainly angels (demon's woudn't experience the real "shock value" of SF/SC). Have them run into Michael's goons on a regular basis, portraying the War servitors as real hardliners. At the same time, have the various stories revolve around saving the destiny's of people so Yves looks like a "good guy" i.e. everybody's favorite grandpa, always willing to forgive so long as it serves Destiny. That way, when clues start dropping that maybe Michael has been doing the right thing all along, and Yves isn't so benevolant as everyone wants to believe, the first reaction by most celestials would be "Yves? falling? NAAAAAAAH. Couldn't happen." It just makes Yves all the more disturbing as a villian. And of course, Kronos is probably laughing himself silly as he helps his old adversary meet his Fate. EvilPheemy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:58:31 +0000 From: "a superhero named tony" Subject: IN> Creativity > > You think some RPGs aren't derivative puerile fodder? > -David (I'd name a couple, but they'd turn out to be someone's > favorite game -- been there, done that, roasted the weenies and > marshmallows in the flames...) I've heard about this American game company that was soooo desperate for ideas, they had to rip off a French RPG. [ow, everybody, stop hitting me :) ] > >I don't know anybody who has seen Alien 4 and liked it. I know I didn't > >like it at all. > >-Jesse > I thought Alien 4 was great. Beautiful, interesting, so much better than Alien 3. Besides, after seeing Starship Troopers, any halfway decent sci-fi looks great. > On the other hand, in response to your totally unrelated points, my guess is > that Mapplethorpe is currently making Eli very, very happy (and confusing > Andrephalus to no end...); Madonna is currently the focus of a three-way fight > between servants of Eli (on loan to Novalis), Andrephalus, and Nybbas; Camille > Paglia is a maverick who has interested both Novalis and David; Gary Larson > and Bill Watterson's retirement is one of Nybbas' greatest triumphs of the > '90's; the Capitol Steps are probably driving Malphas bonkers trying to figure > out how to corrupt them; and Bob Dylan is actually one of Eli's soldiers. For > the rest mentioned, I don't know enough about them (the State and Dan Smith, I > believe?) to come up with what they would mean to Celestials in In Nomine. > > Okay, here's the point of my post. Why does everyone have to be involved with the celestials? Every single celebrity seems to be a soldier. I like the idea that Hitler and Mother Theresa never saw a damn angel in their life, just did their uniquely human thing. Why does Dylan have to be a soldier for Eli? And another thing: I think Gary Larson and Bill Waterson retiring would cheese off Nybbas to no end. He'd want them to be like Charles Schultz(peanuts), losing their creativity and still cranking out product. Instead, they went out on top, telling other cartoonists that their art(and it is art) matters more than their money. I think the Rolling Stones newest tour would be a great joy to Nybbas, however.(note: not that Nybbas would have anything to do with these events. He just reacts to them, to tie in my previous paragraph) Charlie V. BTW: intelligent, popular American sitcom? The Simpsons. A show that works on many, many levels, from slapstick to intellectual humor. The best show of the last decade, perhaps the best cartoon ever. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:10:08 -0800 (PST) From: Lonnie Foster Subject: Re: IN> Hellhounds On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Shadowcat wrote: > I found this on WEB-RPG and my first responce was "This ain't legel." Can > I get a second opinion on this? I think somebody on WEB-RPG is following the Yellow Brick Road. Yes, by the book, this does appear to be legal, but as a GM, I'd squash any player who tried it. More unbalancing than I'll allow in any game that I run. Yuck. <*> Lonnie Foster http://pobox.com/~tribble Give me ambiguity, or give me something else. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:43:15 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage At 8:19 PM -0500 12/5/97, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >Kevin Walsh >>To quote the text (and no challenge is intended to copyright), p25, >>paragraph 2... >> "For example, a Strength of 10, which is an impressive amount, doesn't >>just mean an angel can pick up far more weight than most people...it will >>also be reflected in his personality. He may carry his huge frame with >>pride or he may be shy about his stature - words which tell more about >>him than any single number." >> >>So yes, it does reflect muscle mass, size and weight-lifting ability. Of course, p. 48, Celestial Vessels box, paragraph 3, says: "The strength of a vessel is determined by the Strength characteristic of the celestial. A Strength-8 celestial in a little-girl body can out-wrestle a Strength-4 celestial in a bruiser's body." (And a strength-6 kittycat leaps tall buildings!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:39:35 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers At 10:05 PM -0500 12/5/97, Pee Kitty wrote: >On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, The Saint of Killers wrote: > >> >> (And speaking of the INC, which we weren't, I feel hurt that my shot at >> immortality, my various archangels and princes, haven't yet been added. Really, >> I cry myself to sleep at night.) > >Aw, don't feel bad. I posted a very nice Shedite of Trends (Nybbas) which >was loved by all (okay, maybe they didn't SAY it, but I *know* it) and >it's not up. Beth is picky. :) No, I'm slighly overloaded... Seriously. I'll find it and put it up when I do. Someday. At 1:19 AM -0500 12/6/97, Casca wrote: >On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> At 5:38 PM -0800 12/5/97, The Saint of Killers wrote: >Don't worry, I've got them on my mailspool. If ArchBeth doesn't put them >up in what I consider to be a fair amount of time, I'll forward them to >her with a note saying "Put these on your webpage!" > >It's worked pretty well thus far.....(though she STILL hasn't put up the >Malakim of Media stuff I sent her ages ago.) I swear I did!! Maybe I just haven't loaded that sucker... >> > (And then there's all the stuff that Casca sent that I'm working >> on... I got to a fair amount of it!) > >Indeed? In that case, I'll send the next barrage. Mustn't let you sit >idle now... ;;;) ACK! I'm gonna see if I can get you with a Song of HTML someday... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:30:03 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Creativity >I thought Alien 4 was great. Beautiful, interesting, so much better >than Alien 3. Besides, after seeing Starship Troopers, any halfway >decent sci-fi looks great. Being better than Alien 3 isn't that big a leap. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:51:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) At 8:18 PM -0700 12/5/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> Kyrios specifically say "multiple vessels," and so they are allowed >> to take over vessels. I think. > I don't. I'm having a hard time rationalizing why they can >handle, say, six Vessels owned by their friends, but still can't form ANY >of their own. It's their nature. They simply don't have the ability to form them, without special attunements. Just like Seraphim can fast-talk, but not lie... And if those are celestial friends, they'd better be darned wimpy ones, or one big Kyrio! To displace all the Forces in a vessel (or host) takes an equal amount of Forces... > There's also the problem that how many separate places a >Kyrio can be in at a time is determined by how many Forces it has...and >Vessels don't -HAVE- intrinsic Forces the way Symphonic creatures (animals >and humans) do. No, but to *displace* the current occupant, they have to use all those Forces. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:49:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) At 10:03 PM -0500 12/5/97, Pee Kitty wrote: >On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> And, currently, in a move that is sure to make many folk happy... >> Shedim can body-jump two ways. Way #1: They go celestial between >> hosts, with the attendant Symphonic noise and chance to be spotted. >> Way #2: with *physical contact* and *extra time*, they can "ooze" from >> one host to another, making no Symphonic noise, and not manifesting >> celestially at all. > >This is different than what has previously been quoted as "canon" on the >list, you know. The last note on this was that Shedim could jump from one >body to another with standard Resonance modifiers (for distance, etc.) and >no disturbance, taking one combat round to do so. Why the change? Because it got talked over with SJ when he had a spare moment, and he said that it was better to make *both* true. (Yes, there are still some living, growing bits here and there.) Shedim *aren't* Kyrios, so there are some differences, but making them go celestial *all* the time does handicap them, perhaps unfairly. (Just like Certain People prevailed upon SJ to errata the bit about Outcasts not being able to go celestial, when Renegades could.) That's why I said "in a move that is sure to make many folk happy" -- I've been discussing that one with various people in private email, and they *wanted* noisy Shedim. I think I *did* say that it was potentially in flux till the actual text came out, didn't I? I should have. Sometimes the FAQ wins (the quiet shedite hopping), and sometimes it half-wins. So -- a Shedite *can* do a quiet body hop, or a noisy one. But unless things get really wonky, they aren't typically possessing vessels. Derek agreed with me there. I think the IPG will state it. I *THINK*. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 19:29:56 -0500 From: Jesse Rooeny Subject: Re: IN> Hellhounds >I found this on WEB-RPG and my first responce was "This ain't legel." Can >I get a second opinion on this? It is legal as long as the GM agrees to it. - -jesse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 20:28:39 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > A pet parrot? What kind of phrases does the pet parrot > of a _Malakim_ pick up? "Prepare to die demon scum! Rawk!" or > "Polly wants a submachine gun to destroy my enemies! " =) The parrot hasn't had a chance to speak for itself yet (Suriel posesses him a _lot_), but I have to remember that. He'll probably pick up phrases like " You think that hurt? This'll HURT!" and "Behold my flaming chainsaw!". I love it. I really do. Richard Gant PS: No, the flaming chainsaw part isn't a typo. Ash is a disturbing Malakim. Michael despairs of him sometimes. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:20:30 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf/"Intellectual" shows > Well, of course almost everyone probably finds one or two sitcoms > funny and entertaining, even though most other people would lump > them into the same category as all the others. I like "Grace Under > Fire" for example, and "Roseanne" grew on me -- they both presented > some real situations in a wittier and more realistic manner than you > usually see on sitcoms. But I've heard other people sneer at them as > just more "working class mouthy chick shows". Very good point. AFAIK, I am the only one at my table at lunch who even reads Doonsbury, and the only one who appreciates Fox Trot and Dilbert. Why anybody likes Garfield, I can't fathom (maybe they forgot the *last* time the joke was done on the strip) but the entire table loves it... > Anyone remember "Cop Rock"? It was a musical cop drama, a few years > ago. It got panned big time, and it bombed fast. But it was > innovative and an original idea. I thought at the time that even > though it just didn't work, I hoped whoever came up with the idea > got a chance to try again. Actually, I saw an ad for reruns of that on some cable station a little bit ago... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 20:33:10 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Believe it or not, I've had this discussion with the INgods > already (with reference to VERY strong things like animals). The > easiest solution I came up with was letting damage be based on > Power, not Strength. So very large creatures might have a low > Strength (basic physical ability to use muscles) but have a very > high Power (to do more damage when they _do_ hit). Fer example > that elephant might only have a 4 strength (as much as that > boggles the imagination) but its mighty feet might have a Power > of +7. Maybe combat should be based on Agility then, with the Strength of the individual being a bonus to the Power of the attack. For instance: Ash (Strength 12, Agility 8) needs to roll an 8 or lower to hit someone with a motorcycle. However, he gets an extra +12 damage added to whatever the Power of a thrown motorcycle is. This way, Strength could also be better related to lifting capacity. Richard Gant ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:41:21 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> The Demons of Celebrity Stalkers & Stalking Those are two of the best Word-bound Servitors I think I've ever seen on the list. GREAT job. I'm using them....I'm *definitely* using them.... Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! - -= Windows 95 =- A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 20:40:28 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> INO & Popular Entertainment On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, David Edelstein wrote: > All of the above, though, are based on your subjective opinion of said > artists....we'll tend to see the shows and entertainers we like as serving > Eli, those we don't like as serving Nybbas/Andrealphus. > Which just illustrates that the vast majority of them aren't "serving" > anyone....they're just putting out what they put out, and celestials put > what spin they can on the material. I think it was summed up best in Good Omens. The main Angel and Demon characters got together and went over which politicians they had under their respective controls. The Angel had 5, the Demon had 6, and they were sharing 4 of them. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:48:57 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >It's worked pretty well thus far.....(though she STILL hasn't put up the > >Malakim of Media stuff I sent her ages ago.) > > I swear I did!! Maybe I just haven't loaded that sucker... Apparently not. Nor have you made a link to it from Nybbas' DV pgae. > >> > (And then there's all the stuff that Casca sent that I'm working > >> on... I got to a fair amount of it!) Really? *looks around* I don't see it... > >Indeed? In that case, I'll send the next barrage. Mustn't let you sit > >idle now... ;;;) > > ACK! I'm gonna see if I can get you with a Song of HTML someday... I am but a lowly servitor, proofreading and editing as my Seraph of Archives attunement requires. Learning HTML falls outside the boundaries of my duties. You want more from me, then expand my capabilities. ;;;) - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:10:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hellhounds At 1:55 AM -0600 12/9/97, Shadowcat wrote: >I found this on WEB-RPG and my first responce was "This ain't legel." Can >I get a second opinion on this? >@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ >Idea: > >Servants are an inexpensive way to multiply your forces. An idea I had was >for a REALLY POWERFUL servant, the Hellhound. Here's how it works: Servant >rules state that you create the Servant like you would a Character, complete >with Discord, if you want it...so: > > Buy a Familiar. Give it very low Will, so that it will >have a difficult time resisting your orders. Give it an animal Vessel, >usu. a large dog. Then, give it SIX levels of the Bound Discord. This >gives you 18 points to add to the Familiar's combat skills, tracking >skills, whatever...If you want to go really nuts, give it two levels of >Negative Charisma, so it looks really, really mean and scary. >@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ I think that it's legal enough, just as is the ability of the GM to A: say no or B: say yes and provide proof in various ways as to why it's bad for something big and mean and combat effective to have a low Will -- you can order it around, but so can anyone with... Song of Charm, various demonic resonances, Fast-Talk, Song of Possession, Kyrio resonance, various fun attunements (something like that, try Divine Logic)... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 20:56:23 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Campaign Seed: Second Fall/Second Chance On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > Here's a campaign seed that might be of use. You are an evil, _evil_, EVIL person. I am going to use it. It sounds wonderful. I love it. > I was wondering why Michael is so distrustful of Yves. There had to be > a good reason why Michael disliked Yves and a good reason why Heaven > seems to ignore him. (Hey, disbelieving the most powerful Seraph in > the universe when he tells you something seems like a singularly bad > plan to me!) I never thought about it that way, but it does make you wonder. After all, a Seraph can't even lie to _himself_, so Michael must have good reason for distrusting Yves. Unless...what if Michael's unjust suspicions about Yves have caused him to Fall. Michael is a Baalseraph who regularly uses his resonance on himself to keep himself believing he is still an angel. I don't know if it would actually work, but it could be used if you like this plot but don't want to cast Yves as the bad guy. > His resonance for truth tells him that the course of action that leads > to the best possible Destiny also, with only a few tiny changes, leads > mankind to its worst possible Fate. Very true. Which, as you point out, would make Michael very nervous about Yves' method of fighting the War. Michael prefers his battle plans to be as simple as possible; no plan survives contact with the enemy, but a simple plan will survive with fewer changes. I will probably use a darkened version of your plot. Yves isn't Falling, but he is in real jeopardy of doing so. Michael, like any good general, is preparing for that contingency. He and Eli will be working on creating new types of celestials just in case. This is gonna be fun. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:58:41 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Hellhounds > I found this on WEB-RPG and my first responce was "This ain't legel." Can > I get a second opinion on this? This was covered before when the idea first came up, but the quick explanation of a problem with this is: low Will. It's an easy target for almost any resonance or song and could get really ugly when up against posession. > Shadowcat Oops da Ogre, you get what you pay for... mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:56:57 -1851 From: graeme@multimedia.com.au (Graeme Beaton) Subject: IN> author AM VERY INTERSETED IN WRITING A SHORT STORY OR EVEN A NOVEL ABOUT THE IN NOMINE WORLD, CONTACT ME AT Lawyer@te.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:24:04 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Fluff: In Nomine Movie Trailers > >> > (And then there's all the stuff that Casca sent that I'm working > >> on... I got to a fair amount of it!) > > > >Indeed? In that case, I'll send the next barrage. Mustn't let you sit > >idle now... ;;;) > > ACK! I'm gonna see if I can get you with a Song of HTML someday... > Ahem. It sounds like you all need HTMLmail, an old PERL script which will take your ASCII mail and turn it into HTML-ized web pages. Not pretty, but with making some stock Head/Body tags in seperate files and a text editor, you can crank stuff out much faster then by hand. I used to use it for archiving Starweb turns. For the price of your soul, I will go looking around and find it. It's an old UNIX utility. If not, Beth and assorted servitors, I will WRITE you something rough, quick, dirty and lame to haul in the page, parse it, and spit out the HTML when I ought to be writing Win95 security software. - - Em, Demon of LEGO, the Happy Sparc 20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 22:33:21 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage From: Elizabeth McCoy >At 8:19 PM -0500 12/5/97, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >Kevin Walsh >>To quote the text (and no challenge is intended to copyright), p25, >>paragraph 2... >> "For example, a Strength of 10, which is an impressive amount, doesn't >>just mean an angel can pick up far more weight than most people...it will >>also be reflected in his personality. He may carry his huge frame with >>pride or he may be shy about his stature - words which tell more about >>him than any single number." >> >>So yes, it does reflect muscle mass, size and weight-lifting ability. >Of course, p. 48, Celestial Vessels box, paragraph 3, says: >"The strength of a vessel is determined by the Strength characteristic >of the celestial. A Strength-8 celestial in a little-girl body >can out-wrestle a Strength-4 celestial in a bruiser's body." > >(And a strength-6 kittycat leaps tall buildings!) And my strength-10 ant can lift over 100 times his own weight! Errr... Okay, so I often speak in haste without all the facts, but it brought the facts to light, that's what I wanted. Perry, Ofanite of.... uh.... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #505 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.