From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Dec 15 17:17:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27918 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:17:42 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA08371 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:07:58 -0600 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:07:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199712152307.RAA08371@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #515 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, December 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 515 In this digest: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 2 Trailer Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 2 Trailer Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> Movie Trailer Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 2 Trailer Re: IN> So, guys, any feedback? Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels Re: IN> Movie Trailer Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 3 Trailer Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 2 Trailer Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire Re: IN> Movie Trailer Re: IN> Movie Trailer Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> [DV Fluff!] Scrunch & Archie Re: IN> New Batch of History Stuff IN> An In Nomine bibliography IN> Re: IN- New Batch of History Stuff Re: IN> I need advice and answers Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:22:08 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions > Is there any RPG which accurately reflects the effect of a kick to the > balls .. to a bloke? ie. That would have them doubled up in pain and > incapable of doing anything for a couple of minutes, after which back to > normal? There have been several, though none have been very popular. The only big one that comes to mind is Aftermath, I believe. (The crotch had a hit location all to itself... I saw many characters that had two hit locations covered: the other one was usually the head.) =) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:39:22 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions >>Is there any RPG which accurately reflects the effect of a kick to the >>balls .. to a bloke? ie. That would have them doubled up in pain and >>incapable of doing anything for a couple of minutes, after which back to >>normal? >> >Just a point, based on a couple of times this bloke has been in a >rough-and-tumble: > >If, during a fight, you kick a guy in the balls, under most circumstances >you had better be winning the fight or be a good runner. Oops, my bad. Maybe a couple of minutes is the time that all females at the scene are incapacitated with giggles at watching this ;-) jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:56:43 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 2 Trailer Emily Dresner wrote: >My NPCs spread like some sort of bad case of the flu... even into movie >trailers not written by me. Which is cool, because now *I* don't have to >write one. Oh, go on. I think you should ;-) Actually I think its really cool that Beth started this off (I think) and it turned into a sort of writing exercise. This really is one of the most creative mailing lists I've ever seen. I'd love to see some of those movies ;) jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:30:43 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 2 Trailer > Emily Dresner wrote: > >My NPCs spread like some sort of bad case of the flu... I've run into several of my NPCs playing in other people's games. In fact, I've toyed with the idea of running a game in which the PCs were NPCs in other people's games. That is, they hang around in the NPC backlot, at the NPC cantina, swapping stories about the 'big name' NPCs and waiting for their 'big break'. And what if someone who wasn't a PC started killing NPCs backstage! The horror! Jason ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:38:38 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions - ---------- > From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions > Date: Monday, December 15, 1997 11:22 AM > > > Is there any RPG which accurately reflects the effect of a kick to the > > balls .. to a bloke? ie. That would have them doubled up in pain and > > incapable of doing anything for a couple of minutes, after which back to > > normal? > > There have been several, though none have been very > popular. The only big one that comes to mind is Aftermath, I > believe. (The crotch had a hit location all to itself... I saw > many characters that had two hit locations covered: the other one > was usually the head.) =) > That was because inevitably, those were the two places that seemed to always get hit. I had a character to whom this had to happen at least once per session. "Okay, the punk kid is punching you, and (rolls dice) hits you (rolls dice again) in the balls. Ouch." :-) This didn't happen once or twice, but nearly every single session he was involved in. It got so bad, he started wearing a cup. :-) As the Tick would say, "Unsettling trend." :-) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:54:24 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer > VOICEOVER: Jackie Chan? > > [STOP MUSIC.] > > [CUT TO: The four angels, dressed like the Blues Brothers pausing as > they walk through a door.] > > HAGITH (addressing the screen): Let's not go -too- far. Hahaha! Okay - I'll take it, but only if Jackie makes at least one combat appearance... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:54:25 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 2 Trailer > My NPCs spread like some sort of bad case of the flu... even into > movie trailers not written by me. Which is cool, because now *I* > don't have to write one. > > - Em But I'd encourage it anyway - I want to see what your sick mind can make from this thread. I'd do something, but the ideas I get are ones I want to do as adventures, not trailers... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:54:24 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> So, guys, any feedback? > I posted an adventure ('Too Too Solid FLesh') to the list last > week. I'm not lookign for ego stroking here (but don't feel you > have to hold back), but I _am_ looking for any feedback from those > who've read through it. Probably through private e-mail to avoid > sucking down bandwidth. Well, I think I speak for everyone when I say "Damn, skippy, let me finish reading it first!" It's long, I've been dealing w/ finals and other projects, and I don't want to make a judgement until I finish. It definately looks more cinematic than I normally do, but would be fun to run as a one time adventure... BTW: If you want it up on the INC, in all it's glory, send it to me in .rtf format (I think Word can still do that). I'll HTML it and send it to Beth, sometime over the holidays. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:30:52 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels > >>>Anyway, it doesn't say anywhere that Kyriotates have to be in more than > one place at once, just that they can be. It's like saying Seraphs have to > They do; Seraphs -can't- lie. It's dissonant for them, because > their Resonance is for truth. "A Kyriotate's Resonance is for > Yes, Seraphim CAN lie, it just causes dissonance. And they DON'T use their "...It's dissonant for them, because.." I know this, David, but thank you for treating me as though I'm a complete newcomer to the list who probably hasn't even picked up the book yet. Dissonance is a result of doing something that's an antithesis to their nature, and doing it often warps them, whether by Falling or Discord. I meant "can't" in the sense that I "can't" wrap my leg backwards around my waist... theoretically, I COULD, I'd just have to break it in several places first. It's a perfectly valid, if not technically absolute, use of the term, "can't". C'mon, I know I've been kind of quiet for a month or so, but I haven't forgotten EVERYTHING. Taken in context, the point of what I was noting is that Kyriotates are the only choir whose Dissonance doesn't particularly match up with their Resonance statement. Choir Resonance Dissonance - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Seraphim Truth Lies Cherubim Devotion Betrayal Ophanim Motion Standing Still Elohim Objectivity Subjectivity Malakim Honor Oathbreaking Mercurian Politics Violence Kyriotates Multiplicity Getting Hurt? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:29:29 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > VOICEOVER: Jackie Chan? > > > > [STOP MUSIC.] > > > > [CUT TO: The four angels, dressed like the Blues Brothers pausing as > > they walk through a door.] > > > > HAGITH (addressing the screen): Let's not go -too- far. > > Hahaha! > > Okay - I'll take it, but only if Jackie makes at least one combat > appearance... Even the -possibility- of playing In Nomine is on hold in my group until we get tired of Feng Shui. "Because you know what old Jack Burton always says." "Who?" "Jack Burton. ME! Old Jack Burton always says...what the hell." Jason all in the reflexes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:03:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 3 Trailer At 8:37 PM -0600 12/12/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >Okay, so I gotta add my $.02 to this thread... > >(male and female), opening a door and throwing them in.> > >MARTIN: You forgot these. > >VOICE: Thanks. > >NARRATION: Martin didn't exactly have the perfect roommate... Okay, time to start up PageMill and see what's Showing! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:13:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire At 7:34 PM -0600 12/12/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>At 5:02 PM -0600 12/12/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>>"Gabriel does not insist that her angels cleans the earth of every human >>>louse they encounter- but each time they finish with one, they must deal >>>with the very next one they meet." >>> >>>I read this as "Gabriel doesn't insist that her angels cleanse the earth, >>>but if you don't think that's exactly what she wants, you won't last long." >> >>They don't backlog, I think is what it means. If you meet five >>cruel people while working on your curent target, you don't have >>to go and deal with *them* -- you deal with the *next* one who >>crosses your path, and those five are safe enough to ignore. >> >>So once you've dealt with someone, you can safely ascend or run >>around doing some business that might take a little while but >>won't get you where cruel people are around. > >Maybe, but it also means that Gabi wants her angels hunting cruelty >24/7/365. They don't get time off, they don't get space to take care of >other business, it's "CRUELTY! Wait... wait... wait... SMITE! Okay, now for >a cocoa and a nice- CRUELTY! Wait... wait... SMITE! Whew, this is hard work, >I think maybe a movie would do me- CRUELTY! Wait...." etc. We're *angels*, not 9-to-5 jobbers... Though the *kind* of cruelty they detect can be limited. This *is* a good reason for a threshold, of course. Minor stuff, eh. Major *enjoyment* of being cruel, major *selfishness* about it -- now that's what a Fire Servitor likes to deal with! (If they didn't like their jobs, they'd be working for Belial, right?) >(I have this evil image of Gabi in a cheerleader's outfit. "Smite 'em to the >left! Smite 'em to the right! Smite 'em into greasy spots, FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!") > >What gets me about this (having finally found the little sentence before the >Choir Attunements which says, "X choir can detect X type of cruelty on >sight) is that the Choir most suited to going out and hunting up cruelty to >punish (Malakim) are specifically discouraged from doing so. Actually, they're given specific assignments -- which might be: "Hunt for Cruel Priests." And (according to p. APG50) they can detected their assigned catagory at a glance, same as the others. Or it might be, "Take out Mr. So&so." >>"Generally, a Servitor of Gabriel will have a 'current project' -- one >>of the cruel who has yet to taste the Fire, that they spend most of >>their time on. However, Sol [Gaby's second-in-command, the Malakite >>Soldekai] will infrequently show up with a 'special mission,' and >>the cruel-of-the-moment will either go unpunished for a short time >>(Sol making the dissonance worth the Servitor's while) or plans will >>be stepped up to finish them off so that Sol's needs can be made a >>priority." (p. 22, Marches.) > >Well, this makes things interesting- in effect, this makes every one of >Gabi's Servitors except her Malakim act like a manic-obsessive or get >Dissonance. Yes, true. > In the best of circumstances, the characters would concentrate >on their 'project' to the near exclusion of all else, making them difficult >to recruit for group assignments without Gabi's explicit orders. At worst, >they'd be totally obsessive about it, stalking and attacking full time, not >giving a Smite for demons (except Belial's bunch) because there's just so >much cruelty to punish. Demons are cruel too... >Under this circumstance, I'd play the Dissonance as once after the time >period, and then another one EVERY DAY thereafter until the cruel was >punished, the angel Falls, or the angel has tusks and glows in the dark. }:-{D Actually, because of this, I might very well consider giving them a "one dissonance per cruel ignored -- and if the angel gives up trying, the dissonance stays *and* the Current Target slot becomes empty." Or a "one dissonance for ever multiple of the time period." (So a 3 CelForcer gets it on sunset of day 3, sunset of day 6, sunset of day 9, eats discord...) >And finally, Ascending to Heaven is no escape- there are plenty of cruel >angels in Heaven, too. The work NEVER stops. Nonononono -- not necessarily. Cruel angels aren't doing it for selfish reasons (if they are, well... they're not in Heaven, they're Habbalah). They're doing it for tough love. They don't always *enjoy* being cruel, except to demons. >>I think they do lock onto a Target, and have to go after *that* >>Target, is the intent. So they're always hunting someone. [...] >My thing is, there's not a 'lock on' effect stated here- just recognition of >a being's cruelty. I still see two possible interpretations of the >Dissonance requirements. > >(Lenient) A Servitor of Gabriel must punish someone within their time limit. >They can tell at a glance who deserves punishment, but aren't forced to >chase down every one of them. > >(Strict) A Servitor of Gabriel imprints on the first cruel person they see, >no matter how minor or egregious the cruelty. While dealing with this >person, they will not imprint on another- but as soon as the person is dealt >with the VERY VERY next person the Servitor sees will be targeted- even if >it's just a little child which tears the wings off butterflies. > >By my reading of the basic IN Rulebook, which does -not- mention any >imprinting or similar mechanism, I incline towards the former, although >Gabriel is better pleased with Servitors who -act- as if the latter were true. > >(Quite frankly, if the latter were true, I'd have to file Gabriel along with >Janus and Valefor as Superiors whose servants are nearly impossible to have >as PCs in anything other than a one-player campaign.) I'd probably run it somewhere between Strict and Lenient -- I'd give a "lock on" effect, but there would be a threshold to it. So while a Cherub could notice some twit who jilted his date, that wouldn't activate the dissonance conditions. Mind you, said Cherub would probably get *annoyed*... >>I would, however, say that the cruel person has to be physically >>present to become the Current Target -- they're safe reading >>the newspaper or watching TV. (Of course, a Servitor of Fire >>can try to *arrange* to lock onto someone they saw on TV, >>later, in the flesh.) > >I'd disagree. The attunement list says 'at a glance.' I'd say this includes >television and photographs, but not artistic representations or audio >recordings. > >But then, I'm not the Line Editor... (though it would be nice) Hmph. Hmmm..... As a *GM*, I'd say they could detect cruelty (possibly with an IQ roll on recorded media), but wouldn't lock onto it. As LE, I'm going to let it ferment over Xmas, for when my brain is less fried by the holidays. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:36:25 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire >>Maybe, but it also means that Gabi wants her angels hunting cruelty >>24/7/365. They don't get time off, they don't get space to take care of >>other business, it's "CRUELTY! Wait... wait... wait... SMITE! Okay, now for >>a cocoa and a nice- CRUELTY! Wait... wait... SMITE! Whew, this is hard work, >>I think maybe a movie would do me- CRUELTY! Wait...." etc. > >We're *angels*, not 9-to-5 jobbers... Though the *kind* of >cruelty they detect can be limited. This *is* a good reason for >a threshold, of course. Minor stuff, eh. Major *enjoyment* of >being cruel, major *selfishness* about it -- now that's what >a Fire Servitor likes to deal with! (If they didn't like their >jobs, they'd be working for Belial, right?) Well, the point here is, a Servitor of Gabriel can't -do- anything else, really, under these conditions. They can't, for example, go off and investigate strange thefts in a certain district, or cattle mutilations in the countryside, or the strange success of a series of local commercials. They are so limited by their Dissonance requirements that they are mentally handicapped. >> In the best of circumstances, the characters would concentrate >>on their 'project' to the near exclusion of all else, making them difficult >>to recruit for group assignments without Gabi's explicit orders. At worst, >>they'd be totally obsessive about it, stalking and attacking full time, not >>giving a Smite for demons (except Belial's bunch) because there's just so >>much cruelty to punish. > >Demons are cruel too... Yes, except the Dissonance requirement appears to give preference to humans- and there's a lot more humans on Earth than all Celestial creatures put together. A Servitor of Gabriel wouldn't -care- about the Demon slaying a human across the street- he'd be too busy picking out the right size paddle to take care of that kid who swings cats around by the tail that he's focused on at the moment. >Actually, because of this, I might very well consider giving them >a "one dissonance per cruel ignored -- and if the angel gives up >trying, the dissonance stays *and* the Current Target slot becomes >empty." Or a "one dissonance for ever multiple of the time period." The former is far too easy- in fact, it would largely eliminate the mechanical usefulness of the 'focus.' >>And finally, Ascending to Heaven is no escape- there are plenty of cruel >>angels in Heaven, too. The work NEVER stops. > >Nonononono -- not necessarily. Cruel angels aren't doing it for >selfish reasons (if they are, well... they're not in Heaven, they're >Habbalah). They're doing it for tough love. They don't always *enjoy* >being cruel, except to demons. One wonders, very severely, about Malakim in general on this... in particular, I wonder about Uriel and his successor Laurence, and any Archangel who chooses something very specific, like the Catholic Church, and says, "This is God's Plan," and who chooses something else specific (like creatures of myth) and says, "This is NOT in God's Plan." Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:39:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine : Movie 2 Trailer > > I've run into several of my NPCs playing in other people's games. In > fact, I've toyed with the idea of running a game in which the PCs were > NPCs in other people's games. That is, they hang around in the NPC > backlot, at the NPC cantina, swapping stories about the 'big name' NPCs > and waiting for their 'big break'. And what if someone who wasn't > a PC started killing NPCs backstage! The horror! > > Cool. I make loads of people who make deadly NPCs but don't fit into standard adventures terribly well. I think it would be fun to see how my GM would play those people. The only thing I remember like this was at WARPcon in Cork last year, where there were three different tables, and we kept coming across stuff done by the people at the other tables, and vice versa. I remember a comment by people at the other table to the effect that our actions at a church were somewhat excessive. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:45:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire > > In the best of circumstances, the characters would concentrate > >on their 'project' to the near exclusion of all else, making them difficult > >to recruit for group assignments without Gabi's explicit orders. At worst, > >they'd be totally obsessive about it, stalking and attacking full time, not > >giving a Smite for demons (except Belial's bunch) because there's just so > >much cruelty to punish. > > Demons are cruel too... > In fact, one entire Band of demons is devoted to cruelty, the Habbalah. Plus, there are the Shedim, who are pretty cruel too. And the Calabim, and the... Personally, I don't expect Servitors of Fire to be particularly sane, for the same reason I don't expect Servitors of Wind of Stone to be particularly sane. They serve the personification of an elemental concept. Sanity just isn't what you'd expect from one of those people. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:41:51 +0000 From: "Patrick Chester" Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer > > VOICEOVER: Jackie Chan? > > > > [STOP MUSIC.] > > > > [CUT TO: The four angels, dressed like the Blues Brothers pausing as > > they walk through a door.] > > > > HAGITH (addressing the screen): Let's not go -too- far. > > Hahaha! > > Okay - I'll take it, but only if Jackie makes at least one combat > appearance... Of course, the question is: Is Jackie Chan a Celestial or a Soldier of God? ;-) |Patrick Chester (aka: claypigeon, Sinapus) wolfone@io.com | |"So from now on I guess the operational phrase is 'trust no one.'" "No. | | Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anybody else: Shoot 'em." -NSNR, Bab5 | |Wittier remarks always come to mind just after sending your article.... | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:55:36 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer > Of course, the question is: Is Jackie Chan a Celestial or a Soldier > of God? ;-) Well, we know he is one of Eli's, anyway... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:08:22 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions In a message dated 12/15/97 12:37:18 AM, jhart@btinternet.com writes: <> Yes. One. Much as I hate to admit this, ICE's system (RoleMaster, MERP, etc.) does include many things in its critical tables, and that is one of them. Including the nice touch that *female* opponents that take this crit. are stunned by your obvious stupidity. Mark(I'm not sure which place I saw this...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:25:46 -0600 From: John L Veazey Subject: Re: IN> [DV Fluff!] Scrunch & Archie I loved it, and I do believe I have found my demon prince. Bwaahahahahahahahahaha! Vz - -- John L Veazey (Vz) | Warning: In case of accidental overdose, veazey@ebicom.net | seek professional assistance or contact jlv2@ra.msstate.edu | Poison Control Center Immediately. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:41:47 -0600 From: John L Veazey Subject: Re: IN> New Batch of History Stuff >Ah, but you see, Hebrew _has_ no neuter pronoun! The Bible was not originally written in Hebrew, or at least many of the original documents. There were several different languages used including: Hebrew, Greek, Roman, and I believe others. So I KNOW for certain that Yahweh is generally mentioned as a gender neutral, but not always. Correct me if I am wrong, but I know a few anal History majors that go on rants. Vz - -- John L Veazey (Vz) | Warning: In case of accidental overdose, veazey@ebicom.net | seek professional assistance or contact jlv2@ra.msstate.edu | Poison Control Center Immediately. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:03:18 EST From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> An In Nomine bibliography I've been making a list of books that can serve as inspiration for an In Nomine campaign. Here's the list, along with notes about what I thought about each book. In no particular order: _Esbae, a Winter's Tale_, Linda Haldeman. Weird, good near-contemporary fantasy. A foolish college jock summons Asmodeus, demon of wisdom, to help him pass his classes. Some priceless lines. Has a rather non-standard cosmology, though. _Sympathy for the Devil, Holly Lisle. A nurse, afraid (correctly) that her dead husband is in Hell, prays to God to give everyone in Hell a second chance. God obliges, and lets the damned leave Hell for North Carolina. There are two decent but somewhat inferior sequels, _The Devil and Dan Cooley_ and _Hell on High_. _Good Omens_, Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman Everyone has read this, so I'll simply note that I didn't like it very much, and ended up skimming through it. The jokes just felt too worn and predictable for me. _The Screwtape Letters_, C.S. Lewis The definitive how-to manual for would be Fallen. This is a lot of fun, and probably my favorite of the lot. Screwtape pretty much defines my imagination of a Balseraph. The Space Trilogy, C.S. Lewis Consists of _Perelandra_, _That Hideous Strength_, and _Out of the Silent Planet_. (I may have gotten the order wrong.) I haven't read it yet, because I don't have a complete set yet. _A Case of Conscience_, James Blish Weird and good, and unlike most of the others, isn't overtly humorous. A Catholic priest must decide the status of a newly-discovered alien species. I won't say any more for fear of spoiling the book, but you should seek it out. _The Day After Judgment_, James Blish. A recent collection and reprint of two earlier Blish novels, _Black Easter_ and _The Devil's Day_. This is the original Dark Victory. Of particular interest are the detailed descriptions of the demons and traditional goetic black magic. _Inferno_, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle Amusing but ultimately lightweight. The politics of 70s SF fandom have not aged well, but it's worth reading to see the targets Niven and Pournelle deemed worthy for their enemies list. Oldies but goodies: _Paradise Lost_, John Milton You need to read this, and you need to read this out loud. The definitive English language epic. Especially good are the first books, where the Fallen plot against God. _The Inferno_, Dante Alighieri Less of a need to read this, unless you know Italian. Most of the translations I've read are rather uninspiring, but I suppose it's necessary if you want to catch references. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:18:24 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: IN> Re: IN- New Batch of History Stuff John L Veazey >>Ah, but you see, Hebrew _has_ no neuter pronoun! > >The Bible was not originally written in Hebrew, or at least many of the >original documents. There were several different languages used including: > Hebrew, Greek, Roman, and I believe others. > >So I KNOW for certain that Yahweh is generally mentioned as a gender >neutral, but not always. > >Correct me if I am wrong <...> OK, I will ;-) Parts of the New Testament were written in Greek as well as Hebrew (not sure about the Latin, but I'm sure someone else can fill that in) but the Old Testament was written in Classical Hebrew AFAIK -- so unless you have any sources to prove the opposite I'd just leave it there ;) That is its original language, although scholars do debate whether it really was all written by the same person or not. It may be that some parts of the Apocrypha et al were written in Aramaic but thats basically a very similar language anyway structure-wise. So listen to Ijon when he tells you, as a Hebrew speaker, that Hebrew has no neuter pronoun because thats true and you are simply wrong. God or YHVH is almost always referred to in the male tense, although I think there may be some references in the plural, which may be what you meant. (Elohim is one of the words for God, and it is a plural form). In Hebrew, it is impossible to refer to anything as gender neutral. jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:30:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> I need advice and answers At 4:26 PM +0200 12/13/97, Lassi Seppala wrote: >Hi. I'm new to In Nomine and I need some advice and answers. This is a good place to get 'em! >1) I'd like to know a good way to introduce In Nomine's Universe to >newplayers. Starting them as soldiers is one way... >2) Why is Coprporeal/Ethereal/Celestial Forces added to hand-to-hand combat >skills but not to ranged weapon skills or non-combat skills? I wasn't around for that bit of game-mechanics. I *think* it may have been because a Strength 12, Vessel/6 critter has 144 body hits. Owch. Gotta get those CDs up so you can actually have a prayer of vessel-killing a monster like that in any sort of finite time. It may be a way of denoting that there's more "adrenalin" or "focus" going on in a hand-to-hand combat (or swordfight, or whatever) than in other events. I don't know. If you don't like it, play with it. If you get something fast and elegant... post it! O:> >3) It seems a little unrealistic and very uncinematic (Is that the right way >to say it? Well you got the point, I hope) that you can only attack once in >a five second round. Any comments about that? Okay, this is the "you are actually attacking all the time, but you roll once to see if in all the feinting and stuff you actually land a hit" sort of rule. It's because fights with one-second GURPS rounds take forever in gametime and no time at all otherwise, and nobody ever stops to rest without adding complicated rules. The "one-second"/"several-second" combat round is something that has been hashed out forever on other boards than this... It generally boils down to "a matter of taste." If you don't like 5-second combat rounds, adjust to 1/2/3/4/10/30 second combat rounds to suit. The Malakim in Black will not mind. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:43:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions At 2:09 AM -0500 12/13/97, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >Hey, I know I don't read all the messages from the list, so if this has >been hammered to death already, please don't hammer me. No problem. For most of this, my GM hat is on, and I'm sitting on my LE hat. (So Em doesn't tryi to steal it...) >My question is: > >When a celestial is in a Vessel, are they essentially a human with >super-powers, or a super-natural being borrowing a body? A little of both. [This is observation and I'll stand beside it as LE.] >For instance, can an Angel not be affected by a kick to the balls? If a vessel has them, and the GM hasn't extracted extra points for special abilities, then the celestial will probably be affected by the pain. Perhaps not as much as a human would be, though. However, extremes of temperature, until it gets to *serious* heat-stroke/frostbite stages, will merely make the celestial uncomfortable at worst. >Can they ignore pain from wounds, would a Will roll suffice? I'd be inclined, as a GM, to let them. I'm still gatering data as a LE. (There's some stuff in Relics which suggests that they feel pain, but can, indeed, ignore it if they're annoyed enough. But Relics doesn't get to be quoted by me till I get the "to the printer" copy.) >Do they have "pressure points"? Probably. >Are they just as vulnearable as humans to wrist-locks, etc.? Except for their greater strength, I would think it likely. >What is the body *made* of? Is is soul-stuff or they actually have the organs? They have the organs. To most respects, it's a physically perfect (well, there may be Discord or deliberate imperfections) human (or other) body. The body is made of flesh (generally -- I'm trying to think whether Novalis might give someone a rose-bush...). [That one's pretty much an LE, but I'm hardly going to care if other GMs pick other choices.] >Why bother with organs if you don't need them? Autopsies, doctor examinations, etc. >Must the body operate using "muscle tissue" and a "nervous system" which can be > both affected severely by electric current? Yup. This is why Jean's Generator attunement works on vessels, probably. >How much control do they have over their Vessel? Does it affect them? I think it may depend on the vessel's creator. Servitors of Andrealphus probably have complete control over certain bits of anatomy -- and may have extra muscle-groups for more, ah, precise control! Elohim probably have everything under totally conscious control. Habbies may not care. Kyrios and Shedim are probably the most likely to be affected by their host's responses. >I guess, just how much seperation is there between a celestial and her Vessel? >Is it a body, like "their" body, or one their Superior has loaned them, to > tool around in for a while? I'd generally say, a little of both... And things may depend on the Superior who crafted the vessel in the first place. ("Okay, Malakite, you're getting so stuck up about how humans do things in the heat of the moment. You're going to need to have a lesson. Your vessel's hormones are no longer under your conscious control until you learn biofeedback." "My Elohite, you aren't doing very well with your vessel so rambunctious. Here, let me adjust things a little.") At 2:53 AM -0500 12/14/97, Pee Kitty wrote: >On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >> How much control do they have over their Vessel? Does it affect them? >> Ex. "Chargin's Vessel was becoming aroused... And in front of a member of >> the Seraphim Council..." >> >> Ex. "Chargin pumped more adrenaline into his Vessel's blood-stream. He was >> going to need it." >> >> Ex. "Chargin set up blockers in the brain of his vessel, preventing the >> endorphins from being reabsorbed into the cells. Tonight was going to >> be a -good- night." > >No to all 3 examples, in my game. I might let #1 work -- if somebody with Dark Desire were around... At 2:38 PM -0500 12/14/97, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >Redneck wrote: >>> Pee Kitty wrote: >>>>On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >>And more spillover from the DVPBEM comes in... [...] >>Perry's character had a through-and-through hole through his shoulder, >>scratches from jumping through a window, and a broken hand from smashing >>through a shatterproof glass car window. I ruled that he would definitely be >>in pain, and under the circumstances would be hampered by that pain. Oh, dear. Well, at least it's not soul-killing, right? (Makes mental note to *always* ascend from an angel-Tether when in the DV universe. That way, you have a lot of friends around...) >>Again, I disagree. A Vessel is a body for the Celestial's soul to ride >>around in on Earth. [...] > >Which is exactly why I've asked this question. I'm interested in how >GM's are ruling out there in Gamer-Land. [OOC: "Yeah! GM's Rul!"] >There is no truth, even Canon isn't truth, IMHO... "It's all true." "Even the lies?" "Especially the lies." Me: "It just depends on which things are being true at the moment..." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:05:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire At 10:30 AM -0500 12/15/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Dec 12, 3:54pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Subject: Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire >> At 3:02 PM -0500 12/12/97, Dan Rice Game Master at Large wrote: >> >If an angel loses track of the person they have to punish? I say this >> >because they will keep on getting dissonance unless they can find them? >> >So if you hide that person they will fall quite quickly won't they. >> >> It is, unfortunately, not entirely clear whether the >> time limit is "pass this, and get dissonance in gobs" or "take >> one note of dissonance, whether you leave off for a year or >> only a day". Karakash, what do you think? > > It only says "_a_ note of dissonance" so I'd vote that >it's only one no matter how long it takes. No other Band/Choir >has dissonance conditions that continually rack up like that >one would! A Servitor of Janus with feet nailed to the floor for several days, might... ("The Wind that stops, dies.") But since the "theme" is different, and the Servitors of the Wind generally know where *THEY* are (so they can get moving), I don't have any problems with thinking of them differently. (But if the Fire-Servitor *gives up* trying to punish someone, then the Current Target slot becomes available -- one point of dissonance for bad luck, many for slacking off. Or so I'd think...) At 7:05 AM +0000 12/13/97, Jo Hart wrote: >What I wondered was where this left those servitors who hadn't taken the >Smite attunement. They still have to punish people with fire... Do they >have to wander round with an oxy-acetylene torch? :-) I'd say the "fire" can be symbolic -- any sort of appropriate vengeance will do. At 10:28 AM -0700 12/13/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> public. Not to mention it doesn't say *how much* to punish someone -- I >> mean, if someone is just minorly cruel, you can "accidentally" step on >> their foot... > For that matter, Gabriel's a bit insane; all it says is that you >have to punish them somehow. Dominic's the one who says it has to fit the >crime. So a Servitor of Fire could step on a mass murderer's toes because >they're pressed for time and then, when they've got a few moments, string >a jaywalker up by his hair and pull his fingernails out... Well, you might have to break the toes a little... True... >(This may be one of the reasons Dominic doesn't entirely agree with >Gabriel, if you're one of those weird people going with the unfounded >theory that Dominic's actually a Seraph. ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #515 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.