From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Dec 20 07:22:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16091 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:22:31 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id HAA16999 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:08:31 -0600 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:08:31 -0600 Message-Id: <199712201308.HAA16999@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #527 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, December 20 1997 Volume 01 : Number 527 In this digest: Re: IN> Re:Angelic Players' Guide Re: IN> Re:Angelic Players' Guide Re: IN> Merry Christmas (Also: vampires) Bright Lilim of Trade Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #5 IN> Bright Lilim of Trade Re: IN> Re:Angelic Players' Guide Re: IN> Bright Lilim of Trade Re: IN> The Seraphic Council and James Bond Re: IN> The Seraphic Council and James Bond IN> NPC Re: IN> Movie Trailer Re: IN> So, guys, any feedback? Re: IN> Movie Trailer IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #526 Re: IN> NPC IN> Demons calling card (OT) Re: IN> Demons calling card (OT) Re: IN> vampires ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:59:24 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Re:Angelic Players' Guide - ---------- > From: MarkDEddy > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: IN> Re:Angelic Players' Guide > Date: Thursday, December 18, 1997 6:15 PM > > > In a message dated 12/18/97 2:42:19 PM, tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes: > > < other than ArchBeth have a copy? Why hasn't anyone said anything?>> > > Yes, the APG is out. I've had my copy for just under a week now. It went > from "at the publishers" to "released" on the Website about two weeks ago. > WotC's Game Center ordered it for me. I was waiting for the official "it's > out" email from Beth or John Karakesh (sp?) or David Edelstein before I said > anything. > Great. That's one more thing I'm going to have to do tomorrow or Saturday. Thanks. :) > I like it. I like it alot. Especially the choir/choir interaction sections. > Cool. I look forward to this. I was thinking about getting it for a few of my friends for X-Mas. Nice gift, really. > Mark(Just a teaser, folks, not a review.) Give me more. Give me more. Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 04:41:19 EST From: Calabim Subject: Re: IN> Re:Angelic Players' Guide Any clue when we might expect the demon player's guide? - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:37:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Merry Christmas (Also: vampires) > > P.S. In order not to come off as a hypocrite (a rude one, at that), I'll add a > little something that has to do with In Nomine.... > I've been reading the list for about a week now, and I've noticed a bit of > fuss about the strength of vampires and what-not. Folks, this is the In Nomine > world, and in this world, vampires are not the suped-up power-freaks they > appear to be in V:TM. No, we have angels and demons to fill that role. Except that the imbalance is bigger. Which is what you'd expect. Here, they are nothing but the result of a failed mummy > (thus a bit more disadvantaged), yet still quite a bit more powerful than the > average joe-schmoe. Actually, I was saying that when you look at them, they're not. Given that they have the same number of Forces as mundanes, with exceptionally inconvenient Discords at high levels, they're really only just about as good as mundanes. That's why they're ranked below Soldiers of Hell (and indeed mundanes with 20 extra cps) in the servant costs. Now, for those who, deep down in their hearts, feel that > this is a serious injustice to those blood-sucking leeches (for whatever > reason, whether they have convinced themselves into beleiving that *they* are > a vampire or if they may have decided to devote their lives to the fascination > of vampires, etc.), Isn't that being needlessly offensive? I like V:tM and have neither an obsession with vampires nor a delusion that I am one. I offer one simple proposal (simplicity is the key): > Change the name from "vampire" to "ghoul" or some other undead which you, in > your heart, can live with being somewhat more disabled than a mummy. Given the need for blood and the vulnerability to sunlight, it's not going to be easy to think of it as anything other than a vampire. And I don't mind it being less powerful than a mummy, it's just much less powerful than a mummy. Next, > create a "real" vampire in all of its unbalanced power as you see fit and use > it happily in your campaign setting. Unbalanced compared to who? Noone was suggesting that they be made more powerful than angels or even mummies. But being equivalent to a Soldier wouldn't be so bad, would it? I, myself have switched the names of > "mummy" and "zombie" in my campaign simply because I picture zombies as being > a helluva lot cooler than any mummy. It's no big deal. > Really? I can't think of a single rpg where zombies aren't useless cannon fodder, and mummies are usually quite powerful. Remember also that in the real world, only the very rich and powerful could afford to be mummified. Did they really go to that expense in order to have their soul destroyed? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:44:22 +0000 From: "Patrick Chester" Subject: Bright Lilim of Trade Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #5 > I think Marc might take Lilim but would > force dissonance on them if they didn't inform a victim of precisely what > the geas would be used for when it was created, and give them the choice of > whether to take the deal or not. So maybe a Bright Lilim of Trade would be forced to put a geas on herself which would define limitations on what she could do with a given geas? Would that work? |Patrick Chester (aka: claypigeon, Sinapus) wolfone@io.com | |"So from now on I guess the operational phrase is 'trust no one.'" "No. | | Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anybody else: Shoot 'em." -NSNR, Bab5 | |Wittier remarks always come to mind just after sending your article.... | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:16:23 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Bright Lilim of Trade >So maybe a Bright Lilim of Trade would be forced to put a geas on >herself which would define limitations on what she could do with a >given geas? Would that work? She wouldn't need to. Marc's servitors pick up dissonance if they break their word anyway ;-) I guess that after sensing a need but /before/ fulfilling it, she tells the other party what she is going to do and what the cost will be (ie. precisely what she will do with the geas, none of this 'Oh you can pay me back in some unspecified way at some time in the future') and offers them the deal. I think the ability to sense people's needs is still handy for a Trade type, whether they use their geas ability or not. I like the idea of being able to add Ethereal forces to a geas based on a written agreement. They still aren't forcing someone to sign it, but once they sign, they'll be bound by it. jo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:32:08 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Re:Angelic Players' Guide In a message dated 12/19/97 1:45:42 AM, Calabim@aol.com writes: <> Only one or two: 1) It's not even listed on the website. 2) Once listed on the website, most of the books have taken about 3-6 months to release Mark(Sorry this didn't help more...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:57:31 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim of Trade Would the Lilim really need to even bother setting it up that way? Marc's servitors gain dissonance for failing to fulfill their contractual obligations. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to turn every interaction into a trade agreement does it? Merely that should a Lilim choose to do so, that agreement must now be honored fully I've always viewed the geas mechanism to be sort of a "cosmic compulsion" to return the favor granted, whether solicited or not. - ---"Hart, Joanna" wrote: > > >So maybe a Bright Lilim of Trade would be forced to put a geas on > >herself which would define limitations on what she could do with a > >given geas? Would that work? > > She wouldn't need to. Marc's servitors pick up dissonance if they break > their word anyway ;-) I guess that after sensing a need but /before/ > fulfilling it, she tells the other party what she is going to do and what > the cost will be (ie. precisely what she will do with the geas, none of this > 'Oh you can pay me back in some unspecified way at some time in the future') > and offers them the deal. == -Jayson Useless Fact: Kelsey Grammar sings and plays the piano for the theme song of "Frasier". _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:19:43 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> The Seraphic Council and James Bond You're very very very very very weird Maya. But that's cool. :) - - Em, who gonna see the new Bond movie tonight. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:18:45 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> The Seraphic Council and James Bond Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Applications Programmer III and Balseraph of the Game Desktop Applications Team - Medical Center Information Technology Current Quote: "The Game isn't a matter of life and death. It's more important then that." - Hobson, Arbiter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:56:28 -0500 From: bruce dykes Subject: IN> NPC >OTOH, NC:Tounge could be fun... >Nathaniel Eliot >temujin9@ix.netcom.com Very well Nathaniel, you asked for it: Kaladriel, Angel of Hitchhiking Ofanite Servitor of Wind Corp 5 Str 10 Agl 10 Eth 3 Int 6 Prec 6 Cel 4 Will 7 Perc 9 Vessel/2, Charisma/2 Skills: Fast Talk /3 Fighting /3 Emote /2 Escape /2 Medicine /2 Area Knowledge - Interstate Highway System /1 Seduction /3 Songs: Numinous Corpus:Tongue /3 Charm Corp /2 Eth /2 Cel /2 Healing Corp /2 Cel /2 Shields Corp /2 Eth /2 Cel /2 Special Rites: +1 Talking a cop out of giving her ride a speeding ticket +2 Talking a reluctant driver into speeding Kaladriel wants to make the roads safe for hitchhikers. She does this in a *very* personal way. Her vessel is that of a 14 year old girl called Kelly who spends her days hitchhiking back and forth across the country. Sad to say, that since she doesn't have parents actively looking for her, her travels haven't been hampered all that much. She has no problems getting rides. She'll occasionally hook up teenage runaways and see them to one of Zadkiel's tethers when they get to the city. If somebody gives her a ride who's got problems of their own, she'll see to it that they can get in touch with an angel or soldier who can help them out in whatever city they're going to. But her favorite activity for promoting her Word is getting a ride from a sexual predator. Her MO is to have him pull over, Celestial song of Shields, NC:Tongue, and start necking. If she needs a quieter weapon, she carries about 20 grams of cocaine with her to slip under the car seat of a creep who'll later be pulled over by cops after receiving a tip... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:31:47 EST From: T Bretz Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer In a message dated 97-12-15 15:25:33 EST, you write: << Okay - I'll take it, but only if Jackie makes at least one combat appearance... >> Jackie vs Michael. Mano-a-mano in the fight of the millenium. My money's on Jackie :-) theron houston ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:31:42 EST From: T Bretz Subject: Re: IN> So, guys, any feedback? It'll take me a while to digest. But hey, any adventure with Quentin Tarantino as an NPC is off to a good start. theron houston ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:31:51 EST From: T Bretz Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer In a message dated 97-12-15 18:43:44 EST, you write: << Of course, the question is: Is Jackie Chan a Celestial or a Soldier of God? ;-) >> Well he's got the Armor of God :-) theron sleepy in houston ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:14:19 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #526 >Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:02:52 EST >From: Neel Krishnaswami >Subject: IN> Re: Lilim and Trade > > >: >> Marc hates Lilim because they are fundamentally incompatible with the >: divine >: >> word of Trade. IMC, capital-T Trade happens when two (or more) people >: come >: >> to an agreement without constraint or coercion. Since the core of the >: Lilim >: >> resonance is the coercive power of the geas, Marc sees this as a >: perversion >: >> of his word and therefore refuses to employ the Lilim. >: >: OK, I'm pretty much convinced, Neel ;-) (I like Marc) I think the problem >: with the geas is mainly that the actual form the geas will take isn't >: defined when it is created, which puts the other party into the position of >: being forced to buy a pig in a poke. I think Marc might take Lilim but would >: force dissonance on them if they didn't inform a victim of precisely what >: the geas would be used for when it was created, and give them the choice of >: whether to take the deal or not. Trade is involved when someone says 'You do >: this for me and I will do that for you', NOT 'I'll do that for you and.. >: I'll let you know at some unspecified time in the future what you can do for >: me'... > >...'regardless of whether or not you want me to do this.' > >Part of the problem is that there are often cases when there isn't any way >for the victim to refuse the offer. If I have a Need/6 [*] to have my >apartment cleaned, and J. Random Lilim sneaks into my apartment when I'm >at work and tidies the place up, then I owe a Geas/6 regardless of whether >or not I would have accepted the deal if I had a chance to refuse. > I had this same objection earlier. Thing is, there's always a "Why." and that "Why" makes it possible for you to refuse. It's never just "I need my apartment cleaned." "I Need my apartment cleaned because my girlfriend will leave me if I don't clean it up." "I Need my apartment cleaned to win the 'Cleanest Apartment in Cleveland' award." "I Need my apartment cleaned so I can find my Faberge egg." In these cases, if you get to your apartment, and find it cleaned, and know J. Random Lilim did it, mess it up again, before the "Why" condition comes up. Then, if you have time, you may clean it up again, without owing anything to the Lilim. If you can't do that... In the first case, break up with her anyway. This is one of those times when you've got to decide whether lifelong happiness is worth slavery to a creature of Hell. In the second case, give back the award, claiming that someone else cleaned your apartment in your absence. in the third case, get rid of the egg. If you don't want to lose it permanently, have a friend hide it in your apartment again, and mess it up while he's there. All of the above allow you to refuse a Lilim's Geas, if you do it before the Lilim calls it in. Or even after the Lilim calls it in, if you require the Lilim to tell the victim what she did to earn the Geas, when calling it in. Depends how long the victim's willing to take the effects of the Geas, and if the time allows him to undo the deed. There is a problem if you don't know about Lilim, though. In which case, one can still say "No", but it will probably kill him. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:21:18 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> NPC > >OTOH, NC:Tounge could be fun... > > Very well Nathaniel, you asked for it: Actually, I didn't, but what the hell...it's cool anyway. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:34:21 -0700 (MST) From: Gabriel Gurule Subject: IN> Demons calling card (OT) I thought that this might inspire people who run demons. Also, for those really cocky demons, a kind of calling card. 660 -- Approximate number of The Beast DCLXVI -- Roman numeral of The Beast 666.0000 -- Number of the High Precision Beast 0.666 -- Number of the Millibeast / 666 -- Beast Common Denominator 666 * SQR(-1) -- Imaginary number of The Beast 1010011010 -- Binary number of The Beast 6, uh... what was that number again? -- Number of the Blonde Beast 1-666 -- Area code of The Beast 00666 -- Zip code of The Beast 1-900-666-0666: Live Beasts! One-on-one pacts! Call Now! Only $6.66/minute. Over 18 only please. $665.95 -- Retail price of The Beast $699.25 -- Price of The Beast plus 5% state sales tax $769.95 -- Price of The Beast with all accessories and replacement soul $656.66 -- WalMart price of The Beast $646.66 -- Next week's WalMart price of The Beast Phillips 666 -- Gasoline of The Beast Route 666 -- Way of The Beast (Highway to Hell) 666 F -- Oven temperature for roast Beast 666k -- Retirement plan of The Beast 666 mg -- Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement of Beast 6.66 % -- 5 year CD interest rate at First Beast of Hell National Bank, $666 minimum deposit. Lotus 6-6-6 -- Spreadsheet of The Beast Word 6.66 -- Word Processor of The Beast i66686 -- CPU of The Beast 666i -- BMW of The Beast DSM-666 (revised) -- Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of The Beast - --------------------- Gabriel Gurule/\vandor@unm.edu --------------------- May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. -- George Carlin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:06:30 -0500 From: "Rev.The Other Chris" Subject: Re: IN> Demons calling card (OT) Gabriel Gurule wrote: > > I thought that this might inspire people who run demons. > Also, for those really cocky demons, a kind of calling card. > > 660 -- Approximate number of The Beast > 668 -- The Neighbour of The Beast Rev.TOC - -- The Reverend "The Other Chris" Not Subbie...Not Dommie...Just Pervy UIN # 4814586 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 08:01:38 EST From: Gruzzle Subject: Re: IN> vampires << Isn't that being needlessly offensive? I like V:tM and have neither an obsession with vampires nor a delusion that I am one.>> I must constantly remind myself that tone is lost in e-mail messages and people often take you seriously when you are trying not to be. I own four vampire movies, two vampire posters, and a few V:TM books. So, no, I don't *really* think anyone who mentions vampires to need psychotherapy. Now, <> Many undead are vulnerable to sunlight, and the need doesn't *have* to be for blood. The text says the vampire should get "at least 3 levels of a need (such as blood)". Blood was merely a suggestion. <> Oh, but I switch their roles in *all* RPG's I run. But hey, that's just me. (there was a movie about a zombie which depicted it extremely powerful, though somewhat mentally disturbed, which caused me to view zombies in this way. I can't recall the name of it now, but I'll e-mail it to whoever cares when I think of it). <> I don't even *want* to get into real world discussions. It ruins the fantasy. Now, thinking about it some more, there is a way to improve vampires without really disturbing game balance (I think). The only reasonable change I can think of is to allow them 6 forces instead of 5. I'm willing to listen to any other posts on this subject, but it's probably my last post to the list under this category. - -Greg ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #527 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.