From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Dec 30 09:40:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06257 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 09:40:21 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA21797 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 09:28:54 -0600 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 09:28:54 -0600 Message-Id: <199712301528.JAA21797@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #537 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, December 30 1997 Volume 01 : Number 537 In this digest: RE: IN> Re: In Nomine Christian Mods RE: Lucifer, Archangel of Hell (Was Re: IN> In Nomine Christian Mods) IN> Song of Stability IN> In Nomine Christian Mods Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game Re: IN> Song of Stability Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game IN> Re: About those IN-WoD mods . . . IN> InNomine and the WOD IN> Heavenly Relations (was That guy and Derek the Balseraph) IN> Demon of Annoyances Re: IN> Some Marches questions Re: IN> Remnants Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game IN> The Company in IN Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 00:34:26 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: RE: IN> Re: In Nomine Christian Mods Yeah, well... >Doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, I've actually considered writing up >the American Civil War as an AD&D setting on occasion. What I object to is >someone picking out the person who defines the core game and saying, 'This >guy is WRONG, he's a LIAR, and he's going to burn in hell.' Wait, what's WRONG with being and liar and burning in hell? Oh, never mind. >Question: How can anyone be *so sure* as to what actually goes on in the >celestial realm (or whatever you want to call heaven and hell)? None of us >have ever been there, so why is it that *anyone* could ever say "Marc DOES NOT >USE SLAVES!!". I mean, it's not like anyone knows Marc personally or >anthing...(i think?) Hey, man, *I* do. Went there on a tour once. We were supposed to see Brazil and Argentina, but our bus took a wrong turn in France somewhere... And Marc does have slaves. (ummm... is this computer joke too far out?) >OK, I've now slept on the "Christian Mods for In Nomine" post, and re-read >it. Cool, let's hear it for having e-mail on hard copy! >Lighten up. He's a harmless Jesus-freak at worst, a satirist who's >succeeded in pulling ALL your legs at best. Some of you sound like you're >ready to man battlestations to defend RPGs against Pat Robertson's >stormtroopers over this. I find it intensely amusing. Dude! Pat Robertson's Stormtroopers! Campaign Idea! Yes! Dude, they're gunna love AND hate me for this one... >I agree with Neel; I think you're the one who's being humorless here, >Redneck. There is nothing wrong with being humorless. Well, except that it's a -10pt disad (or is it five?), a one or two point flaw and in IN it's a rare form of Discord, common only among Servitors of Dominic and Saminga. [Judgement cause it's judgement, Saminga 'cause he doesn't get it.] >to be written from a fundie Christian POV. I sense a knee jerking. "I sense knee jerking." [said Diana to Picard] >Is there anyway we can drop this and start posting things that have to do >with the game? let's leave our personal lives in the chat rooms. Doh! That's where I left my life! It's in the "Chat" room... >>Granted, his worldview is very conservative, very fundamentalist, and yes, >>very "masculocentric" too. (Though that last is one of the many things that >>makes me think he's just jerking peoples' chains.) > >Why? Ummm... read Jean Baker Miller's "A New Perspecitive on... drat, what was the name of that book? It's here somewhere... [shuffle, scuffle] Never mind. Read some of Jean Baker Miller's stuff. That ought to clear up the issue a bit... A little dose of feminist philosophy does a boy good. I mean body, body. Damn you, Freud! YOU made me slip up! . . . >My problem with the original poster was with his apparent fanaticism, his >muddled perception of reality and fiction, and most of all his basic tone. >He isn't suggesting, he's preaching, and nothing I saw in the post led me to >believe it was meant in jest. And this is bad because... >Pat Robertson and religious fanatics like his followers are always dangerous. Dude... Pat's Storm Troopers, issue two of "The Christian Crusade", apply today for YOUR copy! I know, I know, look out because they're going to get me soon. THAT's why I'm a Prebyterian! (did I spell that right?) To conlude this rather silly post, I should like to remind you ALL that a good dose of homer will brighten your evenings here in Great Brit... ah, the Great U.S. of A... no, this is an internat'l group, in the Great... Did I say Homer? I meant Humor. O:) (you know, like the stuff the Greeks thought was in your blood?) - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) *WAS* it the Greeks? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 00:39:53 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: RE: Lucifer, Archangel of Hell (Was Re: IN> In Nomine Christian Mods) >In the creation, God took Lucifer aside and said, "Lew, I've got big plans >for you." Redneck, you rock! This is awesome! I've often imagined God and Lucy(fur) off playing cards somewhere, drinking and sharing a cigar. [Why sharing? Umm... cause there was only one? I don't know.] But, yeah. Very cool. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:11:21 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Song of Stability >>>No, David, that is not *your* In Nomine.<<< Actually, it's not the In Nomine created by Steve Jackson Games. Do I need to include the "Do What You Want In Your Own Campaign Yadda Yadda Yadda" disclaimer in every single post? >>>I never said "paradigm", and I haven't said much that would indicate a WoD subjective-universe view.<<< Conceptually, maybe not, but the mechanics are definitely reflecting a similar premise. >>>I am looking at it this way - a human's "resonance" is their innate connection to the symphony, which allows them to do things without Disturbance. Which is why I changed it to an attunement. Songs are very Symphony changing, while attunements (at least, some of them) are more extensions of a symphonic resonance.<<< Humans don't have resonances. >>>Well, given that unbalancing (in your case) has meant "changing to balance of power in the game", didn't you just reply with what I'd asked you not to?<<< No. Even if I didn't object to the basic premise, I'd find your version too powerful. A human who can walk around and dampen *any* Song or Essence expenditure (now he doesn't even need to win a Contest, he gets some effect as long as he succeeds in a straight roll) is much too powerful. He's a walking "Low Mana Zone". - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:11:24 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> In Nomine Christian Mods >>>I don't find it offensive so much as frightening, because I have known too many people who could have posted this and -not- have been joking.<<< I doubt that. Something somewhat similar to this, maybe. But I find it hard to believe it's meant as seriously as you're taking it. >>>>Granted, his worldview is very conservative, very fundamentalist, and yes, >very "masculocentric" too. (Though that last is one of the many things that >makes me think he's just jerking peoples' chains.) Why?<<< Because it's such an obvious tweak with no explanation, and one which he must know will hit people's hotbuttons. Along with the "Jordi likes cute cuddlies" and "Derek Pearcy is a Balseraph", this to me screams of a tongue planted firmly in cheek. >>>As I said before, I don't object at all to a Christianized IN setting, and if I had more time I'd write one up to demonstrate how it could be done right.<<< I don't even think this guy was trying to do one "right". And if he was, it IS right according to his theology. >>>My problem with the original poster was with his apparent fanaticism, his muddled perception of reality and fiction, and most of all his basic tone. He isn't suggesting, he's preaching, and nothing I saw in the post led me to believe it was meant in jest.<<< I guess you need to look closer. And even if he ISN'T joking, I *still* don't see anything threatening about it. >>>Pat Robertson and religious fanatics like his followers are always dangerous.<<< Pat Robertson may be dangerous (though I think the threat he poses is often overstated), but not every manifestation of Christian fundamentalism is a threat to civil liberty. And this guy doesn't sound to me like one of Robertson's followers. There is just too much self-referential humor here, and too many obvious parodies. The writer may, in fact, be a fundamentalist Christian, but I very, very much doubt he really believes Derek Pearcy is a Balseraph, and as for all the other stuff...if *that's* what he really believes heaven is, good for him. I still didn't see anything threatening in his concept. Silly, yes, threatening no. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:28:01 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: > Brandon Quina writes > >Balseraphs are the lairs and connivers of hell. > > So far as I can tell, a Balseraph CANNOT lie. They would no more > lie to you than a Seraph. However, what they DO do is make themselves > believe something For about five seconds. > and then extend their little "belief-bubble" out and suck you into > believing it to. > > That's MY question, do Balseraphs believe their own lies or not? According to the context of the Band description, yes. They believe their lies -while they're saying them-. No mention on how long that belief lasts after the lie has been created. > [Brandon] > >Djinn have me completly stumped. They seem to be 'serial killers' > >or 'stalkers' but they arnt allowed to harm who they attune > >themselves to. > > Casca > >They can't -hurt- their fixations, true, but that doesn't mean the Djinn > >can't make them miserable. > > "While attuned to something, the Djinn himself cannot bring it harm, > either physical or emotional." [IN pg 144] > > No, I don't believe the Djinn can make them miserable, if that constitutes > emotional harm. Well, see, there's direct emotional harm, and then there's harm by proxy. Maybe the Djinn can't directly hurt the attunee, but he can do nasty things like, say, slaughtering her cat and mailing her the pieces in individual boxes as a pathetic attempt to get her to pay more attention to HIM instad of that damned cat. Yeah, it still probably goes counter to canon. My Djinn are just darker, I guess. I see them as ultimate control freaks...they fall madly, passionately in love with something, but because they're demons, it's selfish love. They want to possess, to own, to utterly control, and they'll play whatever mindgames are necessary to gain or maintain that control. Having had a session with mental instability (severe depression), and having more than a few friends with similar quirks, I can think up lots of mean, nasty ways to exert influence on someone with just a few, seemingly stray, comments that 'trigger' a person's neuroses. > [Casca] > >(I -really- need to get off my butt and post my IN-WOD conversion rules. > >They seem to have survived beta-testing.) > > Cool! I think they're neat. They port over in interesting ways...in some ways, Celestials are stronger than in strict IN, in others weaker...but the general 'feel' is maintained, I think. > [Brandon] > >If humans cant have discords, whats the point of the Kyriotate of > >Judgement attunement.. > > As far as I'm concerned. Oh, wait... AFAIK, they can. Humans can have > discord. There're people with stimata out there (AFAIK) and quite a few > obese people; not to mention all the Geased people (IN world), and the > phobic (Fear) and paranoid. Not to mention Greed, Gluttony and Slothful. Yeah, but it's not real discord, it's just a disadvantage that mirrors a discord. For it to be real discord, it'd have to be the result of dissonance, and humans don't usually get dissonance. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:36:30 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Brandon Quina wrote: > ::Shrugs one of Sabrinas trade-mark shrugs:: Dont really care for it > that much, myself. It seems to make more sense, within In Nomine, that > the undead are created by hell-- rather than by other undead. > > Also, 'mummys' in the WoD would be /really/ bad for in nomine. As > far as I know, the only 'zombi' in the WoD are the Cappa/Gio ones and > the ones that the voodo craft makes.. I toss out the 'Undead-as-Megasoldiers-of-Hell' concept entirely in favor of Sinners -- you guessed it, Saints of Hell. Sorta adds symmetry, and like Zathras, I -like- symmetry. > Basically-- if you start adding in WoD stuff, where does it end?? Wherever the GM wants it to end. I rely quite heavily on my GM Gut. So far, so good... > > (I -really- need to get off my butt and post my IN-WOD conversion > > rules. They seem to have survived beta-testing.) > > ::Smiles:: Maybe you can change my mind.. Maybe, though it won't be my intention. > > So it could possess another celestial. > > Well. From what ive seen, there is nothing to stop a Kyriotate > from taking over another celestial-- except that they tend to have > higher wills, and thus can resist easier. That, and the fact that a beginning-level Kyrio can only inhabit one beginning-level Celestial. With Possession, however, the Kyrio could conceivable Possess multiple Celestials (for a shorter period of time, of course.) > On a related note- How many hits do the hosts of the Shedim and > Kyriotates have?? Afterall, they arnt really 'vessels' so they dont > have a vessel level.. > > Is there a by-the-book method on this?? It's either in the FAQ or in Night Music. I don't know the ruling because I use the WW system. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:44:08 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Song of Stability > >>>No, David, that is not *your* In Nomine.<<< > > Actually, it's not the In Nomine created by Steve Jackson Games. > Do I need to include the "Do What You Want In Your Own Campaign > Yadda Yadda Yadda" disclaimer in every single post? Nothing that we do is the In Nomine created by SJGames, with the possible exception of characters. So why say that what I'm doing isn't In Nomine? Or do you mean that my post is not in the spirit of In Nomine (and if so, what grounds are you using)? > >>>I never said "paradigm", and I haven't said much that would > indicate a WoD subjective-universe view.<<< > > Conceptually, maybe not, but the mechanics are definitely > reflecting a similar premise. Thats because using Perception for the second roll wouldn't fit, and using Celestial Forces would make it tougher. It might make sense to use some multiple of Corporeal Forces now that I think about it. > >>>I am looking at it this way - a human's "resonance" is their > innate connection to the symphony, which allows them to do things > without Disturbance. Which is why I changed it to an attunement. > Songs are very Symphony changing, while attunements (at least, some > of them) are more extensions of a symphonic resonance.<<< > > Humans don't have resonances. Thank you for making it abundantly clear that I need to make perfectly obvious everything I say. You see those two little quotation marks around the word resonance? That means that I'm drawing a parallel between their connection to the Symphony and the resonances of Angels and Demons. *Constructive* comments, anyone? > No. Even if I didn't object to the basic premise, I'd find your > version too powerful. A human who can walk around and dampen *any* > Song or Essence expenditure (now he doesn't even need to win a > Contest, he gets some effect as long as he succeeds in a straight > roll) is much too powerful. He's a walking "Low Mana Zone". Actually, that's an interesting idea, and one that people can use to lower the value of the attunement somewhat. Anytime the character hears a noise in the symphony, he *must* cancel the effect (although it does not cost any essence). And he automatically hears his own Disturbances and essence expenditures... It's a Nul-Mage! Who-hoo! Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Five seconds later, I'm getting the upside of 15Kv across the nipples. (These ambulance guys sure know how to party)." - BOFH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:56:48 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 21:13:55 -0500 >From: Brandon Quina >1. I basically understand all of the 'themes' of the angel choirs, >but im abit lost when it comes to the demon bands. Here's what I >think I understand.. > >Balseraphs are the lairs and connivers of hell. > >Djinn have me completly stumped. They seem to be 'serial killers' >or 'stalkers' but they arnt allowed to harm who they attune >themselves to. > They can harm who they're attuned to, but only if it's a result of the request of the attuned person, and only if the attuned person absolves them of responsibility. So, say Joe Djinn is attuned to Mike Human. Mike Human says "I could really use a hamburger." Joe gets some ground meat, but contaminates it with all sorts of nasty filth and stuff, but doesn't let Mike know. Mike eats the hamburger, and later that night, comes down with the Mother of All Food Poisoning. Mike gets rushed to the hospital. Joe Djinn gets Dissonance. Joe Djinn goes to the hospital, and says to Mike "I should have been more careful. Sorry 'bout this." (The emotion is feigned, of course. The Djinn only cares about the Dissonance.) If Mike says "It's not your fault. How were you supposed to know there was Botulism toxins in the burger? I think I'll sue A&P," the Dissonance vanishes. If Mike says "Damn straight you should have been more careful! You nearly killed me, you moron! Last time I Ever let you cook for me!", the Dissonance remains, until at such time in the future the Djinn can persuade Mike that it wasn't his fault. If Mike's last thought is "God, I'm a fool for asking that Djinn to kill Janet. Look what a fine mess I've gotten myself into now!" the Djinn doesn't get Dissonance. If Mike's last thought is "That bastard Djinn, he's murdered me!" the Djinn gets Dissonance. Of course, the Djinn can also attempt to remove his attunement. If successful, then he can beat the crap out of Mike personally, without having to worry about manipulating him. Of course this risks failing to remove the attunement, which will cause temporary Dissonance and obsession. [Snip] > >- -- > >How can vampires ever regain any essence. It says they can regain >some at nightfall, if they meet their need before sunset. ::shakes >his head:: Well, they aren't all vulnerable to Sunlight, for one. Those that are can stay indoors/wear heavy cloaks/run around underground. But to be fair, (and I'd wager it's the intention) I'd rule it "Each sunset starts the clock again. From that point, you have 24 hours to find a human heart/quart of human blood/whimsleydale cheese/a kitten, so you can get Essence tomorrow." > >Does the Kyriotate attunement of war mean that they have to keep the >people they 'possess' until they are destroyed?? Nope. Just the Vessels they have. Other people they possess can be discarded as normal. > >Why would a Kyriotate want to take the Song of Possession?? > No dissonance for taking poor care of the host. \|=) >If humans cant have discords, whats the point of the Kyriotate of >Judgement attunement.. > Humans can have discord-like problems. They can be greedy, murderous, or missing limbs. Note that this attunement /doesn't/ override the "Don't punish people more than they deserve" Judgement Dissonance, so this is not liscence to get in firefights in somebody's body just because she's missing a couple fingers. > >Hmmm, lot of my questions have to do with the Kyriotates ;) A lot of questions do. \|=) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 04:14:24 -0500 From: Garrett Taylor Subject: IN> Re: About those IN-WoD mods . . . Casca wrote: >(I -really- need to get off my butt and post my IN-WOD conversion rules. >They seem to have survived beta-testing.) Assuming the IN game I've been playing in for 3 months *is* your IN-WoD mods: Whoa there cowboy - *you* survived the beta tests. :) I have a few choice words to say about the rules... Okay - now post 'em. I'm anxious to *see* them for the first time... - -Garrett Taylor Macintosh Specialist / Lotus Administrator / Domino Drone / Web Wonk bigcheez@bellsouth.net "If brute force doesn't work, you ain't using enough!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 06:04:19 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: IN> InNomine and the WOD een playing in for 3 months *is* your IN-WoD >mods: > >Whoa there cowboy - *you* survived the beta tests. :) I have a few >choice words to say about the rules... > > > >Okay - now post 'em. I'm anxious to *see* them for the first time... > >-Garrett Taylor One thing that strikes me as the big difference between the two, is that despite efforts to shift it, Humans are largely irrelevant in White Wolf's World of Darkness, especially if you play in one of those campaigns that uses ALL of the supernatural types. With all those conspiracies, Mists, Delieriums, whatnot, the mortals don't stand a chance in determining history. After all the WOD and Amber playing I've done, InNomine is a bit of a nice break. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:05:52 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Heavenly Relations (was That guy and Derek the Balseraph) ** Snipped for Brevity** >Stacy wrote >Also, while his version of the game is *different*, I don't think it >would be boring or Disney-fied, as some have charged. I'll probably >play down the disagreements and politicking in Heaven myself, if I ever >get around to actually running the game. There are still demons, >humans, and ethereals to be dealt with, even if the Host is fairly >united. (Heck, reading the APG's chapter on roleplaying the angelic >mindset, I definitely got the impression that the canon Heaven is much >nicer place than one might think from reading just the main rulebook. >The Archangels may disagree about policy, and their servitors may come >into conflict on occasion, but the whole lot is pretty strongly >dedicated to the same overall goals. The Symphony always comes first . >. . and those who start to forget that get visits from Judgment.) > >Just my opinion. Have to say here that I agree. For me one of the things that makes the difference between Heaven and Hell, between Angels and Demons is Goodwill. In Heaven it is taken strongly that "we are all good guys here" and that everyone is working towards the overall success of the Plan. Everyone knows that the Arch's disagree amongst themselves about stuff, but they are still all doing their best. Now you can still have a fair amount of "interdepartmental rivalry", competition and one upmans-ship, but thats about as far as I take things. Which doesn't make my players feel any easier around the Seraph of Dominic, and he's PC too :) . In a way Demons are almost as reliable, the other way. Most observers would take it as read that any Demon is only out for whatever he can get out of any situation. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. > >Stacy Stroud >sstroud@uky.campus.mci.net > > Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 06:46:05 -0500 From: "Joel Mathis" Subject: IN> Demon of Annoyances The resource of Famous Name gave me a great idea for a demon. I give you... Satan, Impudite of Dark Humor, Captain of Repartee, Demon of Annoyances Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 4 Agility: 8 Etherial Forces: 5 Intelligence: 12 Precision: 8 Celestial Forces: 3 Perception: 9 Will: 3 Chemestry (Stink Bombs/3), Computer Opperation/5, Driving (Car/6), Fast-Talk/4, Languages/3 (Ancient Hebrew), Languages/6 (English), Song of Possession/2 Numinous Corpus Claws, Feet, Horns, Tail, and Wings are all at 6. Famous Name/6, The Talisman of Mephastopheles (see below), Special Rite: Annoy someone to the point that they make an outburst Satan was one of the first angels to fall, but he did not rebel against God for power, he rebelled because Lucifer promised him he would not have to do any real work afterwards. True to his word, Lucifer granted Satan the Word of Annoyances shortly after the fall. It is one of the least contested Words in all of Hell as other demons want bigger, more impressive Words, but Annoyance is the easiest Word to support and Satan did a great job of sitting back, doing nothing, and reaping in the essance until Kobol played a little joke on him. The joke was making his name synonimous with Lucifer to Sorcerers. In the old days, there were few enough of them so that he would only be bothered once or twice a day with summoning, but now he is constantly on the run answering one summons after another. He tried to put a stop to the summonings at first by explaining who he was and who Lucifer was, but Lucifer himself had a few words with Satan and now he accepts his Fate. In modern times with so many summons for him constantly, Satan tries to ignore most of them, but for those that he cannot ignore, he appears with all his Numinous Corpus active and shouting angrily in Ancient Hebrew. If the Sorcerer's don't get the clue and get rid of him right then, he will still try to convince them he is of no worth to them by only speaking in Hebrew unless the Sorcerer somehow tricks him into revealing that he knows English. He was forced to serve Sorcerer's early on due to his weak will, but Kobal didn't like how that interfered with his joke and so he gave Satan the Talisman of Mephastopheles which grants it wearer +6 to all their rolls in a Will-War and is a reliquary that stores up to 10 essance. Currently, Satan tries to do his best to annoy as many people as possible as he never knows when a new summons will come. He has several long term plans (freeways that are built to less than capacity, Spam), but when in need for a quick fix after a Summoning, he generally steals a car and drives like a maniac. Joel Mathis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:44:03 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Some Marches questions On Dec 30, 6:12am, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > Subject: IN> Some Marches questions > G'day. > Finally bought a copy of 'The Marches', and I've got a few > questions. Sorry if this is old hat to the rest of the list - poverty > has prevented me from being up to date. > > 1. Sorcerors can't summon angels, but can they summon Remnants? I'd say no. Otherwise there would've been _some_ way for both sides of rounding up the remnants for one purpose or the other. > 2. Since sorcerors aren't Soldiers, can they learn non-Corporeal > Songs? There's actually a strong argument that they can't even learn _Corporeal_ Songs! Unless I misread the Sorcerer section, they get their sorcerous abilities, period. What about this, Elizabeth? Did I miss something? > 3. If not, what advantage is there to being a sorceror? It seems > that they have a lot less going for them than most Soldiers of Hell. Well... not a whole lot. Sorcerers are theoretically independent and that can mean a whole lot in a war that is as finely balanced as in the In Nomine universe. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:46:05 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Remnants On Dec 29, 3:46pm, Wells Family Fun wrote: > Subject: IN> Remnants > i'm fairly certain that this question is answered in the book but i've > had trouble finding it... > > Remnants cannot generate essence at sunup/sundown, can they? Yes they can. Notice that the vignette of the remnant in the main book was able to pull of a Song... - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:56:39 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game > > Does the Kyriotate attunement of war mean that they have to keep the > > people they 'possess' until they are destroyed?? > > No, only the vessels they make. Most Kyrios only have hosts, but KoW get > -vessels-, which they can't abondon. Yup. > > > Why would a Kyriotate want to take the Song of Possession?? > > So it could possess another celestial. Actually, they can do that already. SoP would let them have a _second_ chance to possess someone... very useful at times! ;) Remember that a Kyriotate without a vessel will very quickly face his boss (or utter destruction if they are an Outcast!) > > > If humans cant have discords, whats the point of the Kyriotate of > > Judgement attunement.. > > > A lot of folks have wondered the same thing....what's the canon ruling on > this, ArchBeth? This is clarified in the APG (a must have!). The basic problem is that humans don't have the equivalent 'moral stain' of Discord that Celestial beings have. They can suffer Discord-like effects that do not represent how moral or immoral they are... just that they might be overweight or missing a limb! Quoting APG: "Human hosts never have Discord, but this attunement also applies to truly _evil_ human hosts. A human's evil is ruled on bvy Heaven's representative, the Game Master. They Kyriotate doesn't instinctively detect humans who qualify as evil, so caution is warranted." The crux is if a human is 'evil' enough that they would have had Discord if they were a celestial, then the KoJudgement attunement kicks in. Since it specifically says _truly_ evil, then we aren't talking about someone who cuts you off in traffic or shouts rude remarks at attractive women. Nope, they have to be really rotten. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 09:06:06 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game > On a related note- How many hits do the hosts of the Shedim and > Kyriotates have?? Afterall, they arnt really 'vessels' so they dont > have a vessel level.. > > I was thinking it was something like this- > > (Angels Corporeal Forces + Hosts Corporeal Forces) x Angels Strength > > > > Is there a by-the-book method on this?? You're very close. Treat the host body as a vessel equal to the host's corporeal forces plus any toughness. Expect that most hosts will have 1-2 tougness while the rare ones will have 3-4. (This is in APG, btw.) Speaking of APG, I'm working on a review. The capsule summary of which is: buy it! Almost all the FAQ stuff for choirs and angels made it in there plus a whole lot of new stuff. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:17:37 -0500 From: Highway Star Subject: IN> The Company in IN Well, for Christmas I bought myself a copy of GURPS Black Ops. I really enjoyed it, and highly recommend it. And since I like to bastardize my game I decided to play around with porting The Company (and its assorted enemies) into In Nomine. However, I'm still working out the details, and I thought I'd get y'all's opinions on two different things: 1) The Grays - are they demonic? Confused angels? Human? Or actually alien? I was thinking that they might be servants of Vapula, modified by some demonic plastic surgery or something... 2) Is there anyway for a human to soul-kill a celestial via technology? I've been thinking of this for a while, too, for a futuristic post-Apocalypse IN varient I had thought up one day, and was trying to conceive of some kind of ammunition or weapon that might be able to damage a celestial's soul hits. Of course, I guess just repeatedly throwing the celestial into Trauma might make it more cinematic...("I'll be back, and you won't be able to stop me again! MUHAHAHAHA!") SeanMike - -- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:20:21 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble >> Brandon Quina writes >> >Balseraphs are the lairs and connivers of hell. >> >> So far as I can tell, a Balseraph CANNOT lie. They would no more >> lie to you than a Seraph. However, what they DO do is make themselves >> believe something >For about five seconds. Ah... >> and then extend their little "belief-bubble" out and suck you into >> believing it to. >> >> That's MY question, do Balseraphs believe their own lies or not? >According to the context of the Band description, yes. They believe their >lies -while they're saying them-. No mention on how long that belief lasts >after the lie has been created. Okay, that clears things up a bit. I wasn't thinking how long it would take them to believe themselves. :) > [Brandon] > >Djinn have me completly stumped. They seem to be 'serial killers' > >or 'stalkers' but they arnt allowed to harm who they attune > >themselves to. > > Casca > >They can't -hurt- their fixations, true, but that doesn't mean the Djinn > >can't make them miserable. > > "While attuned to something, the Djinn himself cannot bring it harm, > either physical or emotional." [IN pg 144] > > No, I don't believe the Djinn can make them miserable, if that constitutes > emotional harm. >Well, see, there's direct emotional harm, and then there's harm by proxy. >Maybe the Djinn can't directly hurt the attunee, but he can do nasty >things like, say, slaughtering her cat and mailing her the pieces in >individual boxes as a pathetic attempt to get her to pay more attention >to HIM instad of that damned cat. > >Yeah, it still probably goes counter to canon. My Djinn are just darker, >I guess. I see them as ultimate control freaks...they fall madly, >passionately in love with something, but because they're demons, it's >selfish love. They want to possess, to own, to utterly control, and >they'll play whatever mindgames are necessary to gain or maintain that >control. I must say that I much prefer your interpretation. Maybe the Djinn CAN inflict emotional harm after all, as long as it causes the attuned to pay more attention to them. Maybe even physical harm... How *did* that human get that pole through his chest in the Djinn intro bit? [IN pg 142, with the "Gkkk, Help me."] >Having had a session with mental instability (severe depression), and >having more than a few friends with similar quirks, I can think up lots of >mean, nasty ways to exert influence on someone with just a few, seemingly >stray, comments that 'trigger' a person's neuroses. That's the very description of my family. I can play that *easy*. ANYWAY, where were we... > [Casca] > >(I -really- need to get off my butt and post my IN-WOD conversion rules. > >They seem to have survived beta-testing.) > > Cool! >I think they're neat. They port over in interesting ways...in some ways, >Celestials are stronger than in strict IN, in others weaker...but the >general 'feel' is maintained, I think. Hmmmm... I wouldn't mind a WoD "feel" for IN. Wow... That'd be dark, eh? Then again, I suppose Dark Victory HAS done that pretty well. Of course, there aren't Mages in it. Yeah, crossing IN and WoD would be REALLY nice for my group at school. They're pretty heavy into WW. Man, it'd be awesome to bring in a few angels... he he he... > [Brandon] > >If humans cant have discords, whats the point of the Kyriotate of > >Judgement attunement.. > > As far as I'm concerned. Oh, wait... AFAIK, they can. Humans can have > discord. There're people with stimata out there (AFAIK) and quite a few > obese people; not to mention all the Geased people (IN world), and the > phobic (Fear) and paranoid. Not to mention Greed, Gluttony and Slothful. >Yeah, but it's not real discord, it's just a disadvantage that mirrors a >discord. For it to be real discord, it'd have to be the result of >dissonance, and humans don't usually get dissonance. What about Geasa? It'd be pretty boring for Lilim if they can't use their Resonance on Humans simply because the humans can't have Discord... On the other hand, it's a "special case" anyway. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #537 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.