From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Feb 24 05:47:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA17324; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 05:47:13 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA14197 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 05:50:56 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 05:50:56 -0600 Message-Id: <199702241150.FAA14197@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #37 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, February 24 1997 Volume 01 : Number 037 In this digest: Re: IN> Calabim Re: IN> Calabim IN> A few questions Re: IN> Calabim Re: IN> A few questions Re: IN> Calabim Re: Archangels and stuff (was Re: IN> ATTN Robert Wolff re: IN> 2nd IN> Another word for Ziggy... Re: IN> A few questions IN> Bodhi's 3rd Adventure Idea Re: Archangels and stuff (was Re: IN> ATTN Robert Wolff re: IN> 2nd Re: IN> Calabim Re: IN> Bodhi's 3rd Adventure Idea Re: IN> Bodhi's 3rd Adventure Idea Re: IN> Bodhi's 3rd Adventure Idea IN> Re: Jesus faked his death Re: Calabim, was re:IN>Saints, Calabim and the joys of monotheism IN> a bunch of stuff IN> Michael/Lucifer Re: IN> "A Story of Lucifer" Re: IN> "A Story of Lucifer" IN> Angelic Script IN> Re: Archangels and stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 18:15:59 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Calabim > Very cool. Anyone want to come up with routine lies for Balseraphs serving > each major Prince? Thank you. And here's my take on the Balseraph... Andrealphus: C'mon. Trust me. Just try it once; you'll like it, I promise. Asmodeus: And as you can see by the prosecution's witness' contradictory evidence, my client could _not_ have been the person responsible for this tragic murder. Baal: I wanted to call this press conference to reassure the American public that we have no evidence that our troops were ever exposed to biological or chemical weapons. I would also like to refute the irresponsible allegations that our own forces used these weapons. that is all. Beleth: I see. I think that perhaps this all ties in with the time when you were three and your mother locked your in the _cold_, _dark_ basement as punishment. No? Belial: We had to burn down the village in order to save it. Haagenti: No, go ahead and have another cookie. It won't hurt your appetite and your mother wouldn't mind. Kobal: Can you believe Mike? I don't know where he got the idea that "Casual Fridays" meant that he could show up to the board meeting in his bathrobe! Kronos: According to these tests, Mr. Hazelwood, your integrity and strong sense of duty indicate that you woud be best suited to a leadership position. As luck would have it, I just received these promotional pamphlets from an oil corporation today; why don't you take one home with you? Malphas: And next on "Damien Live", Michelle has a surprise for her lover... Nybbas: And in other news... Saminga: *removing stethescope* I'm afraid that those wounds on your father's neck are self-inflicted. I'm sorry, but have you considerd the possibility or a home? They would be able to take care of him there to make sure he didn't hurt himself- I'm sure he'll love it there. *ahem* And I fear that the Alzheimer's has reached an advanced stage; he kept raving about a vampire that attacked him at might. *shake head* Poor fellow... Valefor: What? This? Oh, it's just a little something that my aunt sent me? Do you like it? Yes, it was very thoughtful of her... Vapula: Scientific studies by independent researchers have resulted in no evidence that smoking causes cancer. > In general, I've really liked most of the stuff I've seen posted to the > list. It's very inventive stuff! *psst* Hey kid! The first sample's on the house... ;'} > Derek Oops da Ogre, who finally saw "Drunken Master" last night ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 18:35:51 -0600 (CST) From: Doug Sheppard Subject: Re: IN> Calabim On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Derek Patton Pearcy wrote: > >Oops da "Whaddya think, Sirs?" Ogre > > Very cool. Anyone want to come up with routine lies for Balseraphs serving > each major Prince? Andrealphus: "If God didn't want you to, He wouldn't have given you it." Asmodeus: "This is strictly off the record." Baal: "Truce." Beleth: "A gallon of chili before I go to bed works for me." Belial: "Of *course* it's fireproof." Haagenti: "Why would I think you're fat?" Kobal: "I'm laughing *with* you. Really." Kronos: "God really must have it in for you, man." Lilith: "Didn't I *say* I'd stay put?" Malphas: "Hey, I'm on your side." Nybbas: "He *must* be right. Look at his ratings!" Saminga: "We tried everything we could, but he was too far gone." Valefor: "It was missing when I got here." Vapula: "We're not moving until the environmental impact report comes in." Doug "Sirilyan" Sheppard "Only damn fools quote themselves." - D. Sheppard But EVERYONE quotes their Web page! http://www.link.ca/~sirilyan/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 18:58:42 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: IN> A few questions In no particular order: 1. How long is Night Music going to be, exactly? At last count we've got rules for human sorcerors, Soldiers of Hell, Saints, the Austin, TX setting, at least one Demon Prince with an option on another, and a full adventure. I hope this isn't going to be as big as the main book or anything. 2. As a non-Francophone, I'd appreciate it if someone could give me a hand on pronouncing some of the French-derived names. Is Yves pronounced like the "eaves" in "eavesdropping" or should it kinda rhyme with "eyes"? Does Jordi's name sound like "jordy" or "zhordi" or "zhorday" or what? 3. A game where you take the role of celestial beings is going to be transgressive by its very nature, so I'm a bit surprised at people's responses to the Angel of Weed. Dominic basically symbolizes paranoia and distrustfulness and is a mean, nasty SOB; how is that portrayal of an angel any more acceptable than Ziggy's? 4. I saw a production of The History of the Devil Friday night and watched The Prophecy last night, and found them both pretty good IN sources, at least in bits. Anyone else have favorite literary/filmic/what have you sources for IN that aren't listed in the back? Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:17:22 -0500 (EST) From: DeltaS Subject: Re: IN> Calabim On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Doug Sheppard wrote a bunch of quotes for Balseraphs serving each major prince which I snipped. I can't stop laughing. That was hysterical. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:32:07 -0500 From: unseelie@warwick.net (...jason schneiderman...) Subject: Re: IN> A few questions >2. As a non-Francophone, I'd appreciate it if someone could give me a >hand on pronouncing some of the French-derived names. Is Yves pronounced >like the "eaves" in "eavesdropping" or should it kinda rhyme with >"eyes"? Does Jordi's name sound like "jordy" or "zhordi" or "zhorday" or >what? Yves is more like Eve, actually. But, then again, I think Eli should be pronounced Ay-lee, like the Hebrew. > >3. Dominic basically symbolizes paranoia >and distrustfulness and is a mean, nasty SOB; how is that portrayal of >an angel any more acceptable than Ziggy's? Dominic's "distrustfulness" is part of his job: he's seen the best and brightest fall to Hell, so he can be forgiven if he sees Discord around every corner. As a Seraph, he loves the Symphony and wants to see it perfect. He probably takes each fall as a personal betrayal, and aeons of betrayal can make anyone bitter and hard. yours, defending Dominic? heavens forfend, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:48:11 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Calabim Good job. I like yours better than my own... Oops da "I'll stick to breaking stuff" Ogre ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 20:50:27 -0500 (EST) From: Don Fnordlioni Subject: Re: Archangels and stuff (was Re: IN> ATTN Robert Wolff re: IN> 2nd On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Mark Kinney wrote: > We should also keep in mind that "drugs" are not always necessarily bad. Well, in my opinion, we should also keep in mind that angels are not always necissarily good. After all, Passover is about the Angel of Death.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 18:26:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Durall Subject: IN> Another word for Ziggy... Interested or concerned parties might want to step back a bit from having Ziggy's focus be the Angel of Marijuana, Cannibis, Pot, or whatever, and instead give him a more ecologically friendly Word... Angel of Hemp, which would put him still in the same domain, make him much more a servant of a Word which Novalis probably supports, and connect him to the wider range of uses the plant has. This would cut out a lot of the troublesome ethical consideration of having an Angel whose word is a drug. Broadening the scope to hemp gives him a sphere of interest which has many more uses. On the other hand, there would definitely be a Demon of Acapulco Gold... _________ Jason Durall triton@seanet.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:21:03 -0500 (EST) From: Don Fnordlioni Subject: Re: IN> A few questions On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Raoul Duke wrote: > Anyone else have favorite literary/filmic/what have you sources for IN > that aren't listed in the back? I liked "Faust" -- couple years old, a Czech movie. Pretty funny stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:46:53 +0000 From: "Robert Wolff" Subject: IN> Bodhi's 3rd Adventure Idea Campaign Idea The following is an idea for a campaign after your regular regime has been established. When things get a little stale, and you need to shake things up a bit, throw this at them... Title: The Secret Campaign Reference Material:... read them if you've got time... Titles: Jesus Died in Kashmir; Secrets of the Templars; Holy Blood, Holy Grail Introductory Story: I sat at my desk, thinking about how much I love being a cop. Long hours, underpaid, people yelling at you when you hang around too long, people yelling at you when you don't show up on time... I guess there's no pleasing people. It's not their fault that they're only people. Thank God I'm not people; I don't think I could handle the job if I was. I looked down at the pile of papers on my desk. I read somewhere that a clean desk is a sign of an unhealthy mind, and vice versa. Looks like I should be in for an upcheck on my next psych evaluation... this desk couldn't get more crowded if I tried. I know that there's a computer down underneath there somewhere, but I just don't seem to get the hang of those things. I never liked Jean's way of doing things... I prefered it when things were simpler. Oh well, you've gotta move with the times. Obviously, somebody else preferred things when they were simple as well - like them well enough to kill for a little piece of memorabilia. I opened the file that seemed to be nagging at me from the corner of my desk. I read, for about the thousandth time, the photocopies of the various police reports from the museum break-in. I mean, I understand that reading's the greatest thing since sliced bread (oh, man, remember when that came out ?...) and I'm all behind the literacy campaign down at the department, but come on?!?! Killing some museum guard over a book? Who cares if Leonardo da Vinci scrawled some notes down in this stupid little pad. Well, obviously, some bibliophile cared an awful lot. Enough to kill. I just couldn't let this one go. I had a funny feeling about this one. Not my normal range of funny feelings, the ones that I can trust because I'm supposed to trust them... this was the kind that my brother cops got. You know... gut reaction. I had sent out a couple of feelers, but so far, no leads. I'd left for message at some big-time da Vinci scholar down at the University, but so far she hadn't got back to me. I was about to file this one under "unsolved, ... forget about it" when the computer under all my paper beeped, telling me in this sexy-sweet female voice that I had new mail. Which wasn't that strange, except that I don't think I'd turned the thing on in the three years its been under there. I've never sent or received e-mail in my entire, very long life! When I uncovered the screen, there was indeed an e-mail message waiting for me, blinking on the screen. It said, simply, "The Museum. Drop it. It's for your own good." Damn, I hate it when my gut is right! I hate it more when I refuse to listen to it. Looked like I'd be putting in for more over-time... Gaming Style: Think X-files, Oliver Stone, conspiracies, the cold war, secrets, secrets, secrets... Sequence of Events: The following events should take place throughout the course of the campaign, but the campaign is NOT, I repeat NOT, limited to these events. 1. Somebody kills a guard at the museum in the course of stealing a newfound da Vinci private diary. 2. The book is discovered, and found to contain a reference to "The Priory of Zion", the Knights Templar, and a list of Angelic names. 3. The Priory of Zion is discovered to be a secret society, based over the centuries, whose purpose is secret, but who seem to be devoted to the protection of a certain lineage/bloodline. One of the grand masters was Leonardo daVinci, but others have included Sir Isaac Newton, etc. 4. The Knights Templar are investigated, and found to be a disbanded order of Knights dating back to the crusades. Phillippe IV of France helped to discredit them, claiming that they worshipped a demon named Baphomet, and that they had fallen from grace. He got his puppet Pope in Avignon to disband the order, and branded them heretics. However, they continued on in secret. The Templars apparently kept the secret of the San Greal, or Holy Grail. 5. The players run up against a demon servitor of Kronos, who warns the players to stop their investigation. 6. The list of Angelic names all turn out to all belong to Cherubim, but they've all also mysteriously been Outcast. 7. None of the Cherubim are found to be Fallen, nor destroyed, nor redeemed. They've all become outcast, at different times throughout the millenia, but that seems to be the extent of it... save that they're all listed by a secret society. 8. The players run up against an angel servitor of Yves, who warns the players to stop their investigation. 9. The two servitors of Fate and Destiny are discovered to be,... well, not exactly enemies, but not exactly friends...but somehow linked by a mutual purpose. 10. The players discover a secret sect of Albigensians who seem to also be interested in protecting this mysterious bloodline, the Children of the Blood. 11. The players must contact an Outcast Seraph, who also has not yet fallen, and through a series of ever-revealing mysteries are led towards the true Secret. 12. Legends are discovered of an Archangel of Preservation, but nobody knows of his history or whereabouts. If Yves is consulted, he warns the players off. 12. The players run into the New Knights Templar, or Society of Preservation, a secret society made up of "Outcast" Cherubim, selected servitors of Fate and Destiny, and Children of the Grigori. 13. The players must decide what to do with their newfound secret knowledge... a secret so shocking it threatens the entire make-up of the war. Explanation: Many different theological and archaeological experts have put forth theories about the existence of a bloodline belonging to Jesus Christ. Jesus did not die on the cross, but instead, was smuggled out by his followers to continue his work in the East. His bloodline, or progeny, were smuggled north by Joseph of Aramathea, and the words San Greal (or holy grail) were mistaken for the words Sang Real (or Holy Blood). Thus, the bloodline of Christ was taken North, to safety, and guarded as it flourished. God's influence, and the influence of Celestial beings, is therefore blended with the Symphony directly in this fusion of Man and Celestial. These individuals have, buried deep within them, Celestial-type Ability linked with complete Harmony with the Symphony. As men, they are part of the Symphony; as progeny of God, they have Celestial Potential. They would have Angelic/Demonic Power, yet not disturb the Symphony as they are an integral part of it! If every mortal man has a Destiny (best possible outcome), and a Fate (worst possible outcome), then this Bloodline has the same outcome for both possibilities: namely, to become so powerful as to provide a powerful THIRD FORCE in the great WAR. This force would not be Celestial, nor would it be Diabolical: it would be Humanistic! A Child of the Blood who becomes a Soldier (for either side), has a Destiny/Fate that is entirely interested in preserving Humanity's interests to the exclusion of either Heaven's or Hell's. They would, by their very nature, fight to keep the great War going on in perpetuity, so that Humanity could go on existing. Yves knows that this would further diminish the chances of Heaven beating Hell in the great War. Kronos knows that this would further diminish Hell's chances of beating Heaven in the great war. Either way you look at it, a Third Faction in this war, based entirely in the Corporeal Realm and yet capable of Supra-Corporeal power... WITHOUT DISTURBING THE SYMPHONY... would be too much to handle. Thus, an agreement was made. Such individuals cannot be recruited as Soldiers, lest their added knowledge and abilities awaken their dormant Potential. They are like Nuclear Weapons, waiting to go off, in a war that is mostly waged using swords and guns. If neither side can harnass their potential, then both sides must take pains to ensure that such potential is never utilized. Likewise, the bloodline must be preserved, as nobody trusts the other side to not "hide" one extra Child of the Blood, and try to turn it towards their own purpose. The analogy with nuclear weapons is extremely precise. They are too powerful to use, yet neither side trusts the other not to hold one out should they attempt "unilateral disarmament" by destroying all the Children of the Blood. It was decided by Yves and Kronos that they would assign certain Servitors to watch over these humans, and to ensure that no Celestial or Diabolical ... ESPECIALLY the archangels and princes... ever gained knowledge of these Children of the Blood. It is their belief that others who rule wouldn't hold the unique perspective that Fate and Destiny give one, and would lack the wisdom to NOT TRY TO USE THEM. Whenever a Cherubim finds out about this secret society, they immediately see the necessity of keeping this Secret. However, since they must exhibit Devotion, any Cherubim cannot in all good conscience keep a secret from their Master for very long. Thus, they begin to generate dissonance, and eventually fall out of grace with their master. Indeed, due to the inevitability of this, many of them leave service voluntarily, become Outcast, and then Vow to Guard the Children of the Blood. These individuals are incapable of generating more dissonance, as they have made the ultimate sign of devotion - voluntarily leaving Heaven's Graces for the Greater Good. They form the backbone of protection for the Children of the Blood. The Templars, who's REAL purpose was to guard the Sang Real (Holy Blood), gladly accepted the assistance of these Guardian Angels. Unfortunately, greed and distrust led Phillippe IV to disband the Templars, and the mission had to go underground. The Priory of Zion was formed, and the mission was passed on to this body of individuals. Thus, some humans, some "Outcast" Cherubs, certain servitors of Fate and Destiny, and the certain Children of the Grigori, all are members of an elite Illuminati, who all keep the secret of a potential Third Faction in the great war. They must never let this secret be released to general knowledge, as most Celestials and Diabolicals, most especially the war-factions, would immediately begin grooming Children of the Blood as Soldiers for their side. However, both Kronos and Yves understand that the ultimate Fate and/or Destiny of such a Soldier is to have the interests of HUMANITY at heart. Thus, the secret must be kept, the Bloodline must be maintained JUST IN CASE, and the Children of the Blood must be guarded. No Celestial or Diabolical may know of this without swearing PRIMARY FEALTY to the New Templars. Failure to do so leaves no choice but to destroy the Celestial/Diabolical in question. Thus, if the players insist on uncovering the Secret of the Children of the Blood, and the existence of the New Knights Templar, then they will find themselves either unwillingly devoted to keeping this Secret, or Destroyed! However, membership has its privileges.... Special Notes: If you're wondering, all of the things that I have mentioned in the previous plotline are actual groups, individuals, and theories in theology/archeology. Read the references listed before flaming with me comments about the premise being "too far fetched". Again... let me know what you think, one way or the other. Sincerely, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 23:27:58 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Kinney Subject: Re: Archangels and stuff (was Re: IN> ATTN Robert Wolff re: IN> 2nd On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, fish wrote: > On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Mark Kinney wrote: > > We should also keep in mind that "drugs" are not always necessarily bad. > Good point. I'll agree that an angel of, say, penicillin would work; > I just don't think that there'd be an angel of some addictive and/or > harmful substance. I'll leave it open to debate whether or not marijuana > falls under that category. > The way I've always heard it (and this may or may not be true in IN... geez, a *game* with as volatile subject matter as this... :-) ) is something like this: Lucifer cannot create; that remains in God's hands. If one accepts this premise, then God created all of these plants that people decided to roll up and smoke, or distill into funny-tasting drinks. Lucifer and his bunch, however, could corrupt their use, or even the material itself (from coca leaves to cocaine to crack, for example). > > for that moldy old Fantasy Wargaming book... It touches on these kinds of > Good Lord. I thought I was the only surviving person in the world who > still had a copy of that book. Galloway, right? Yeek. > Galloway, yes. Several copies at least seem to be floating around, as threads about it in rec.games.frp.misc have popped up a couple of times in the past year. And touching on some other thread that's been going on, you'd be surprised what some of the various higher beings are patrons of! Let's just say Dominic would probably have a field day with it. :-) Does this mean I get to be the Angel of Unutilized Game Systems? :-) Mark Kinney | alberich@iglou.com | http://www.iglou.com/nations/ "The chance in war is equal, and the slayer oft is slain." -- Homer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:50:40 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: Re: IN> Calabim On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Doug Sheppard wrote: Brilliance. Brilliance. -- fish. | fish flowers (i don't exist!) ><> |\ |\ \ / | | | |\ | > \/ |/| | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, eidolon@io.com | |< /\ |/| | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | | \ / \ | | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:13:24 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: IN> Bodhi's 3rd Adventure Idea This is good. Very, very good. I haven't actually started playing IN yet (as I noted in my intro message, both IN and Feng Shui are moldering on my bookshelf, waiting to be played), but this is the kind of thing I'd like to run, albeit perhaps more satirically. Hopefully you won't run out of ideas before I actually run a game... On another note, where did you find your references? Since picking up IN I've "coincidentally" become interested in the out-there side of the Biblical. Are these the sort of books I could find in a good library or would I have to go to an occult bookstore or some such? I'd also be interested in a good beginner's guide to Kabbalist writings if anyone knows the name of one... Boy, all this concern over angels and I don't even go to church. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 23:01:45 +0000 From: "Robert Wolff" Subject: Re: IN> Bodhi's 3rd Adventure Idea Raoul Duke / Joe (I'm not sure how this address works...) wrote... > On another note, where did you find your references? Since picking up IN > I've "coincidentally" become interested in the out-there side of the > Biblical. Are these the sort of books I could find in a good library or > would I have to go to an occult bookstore or some such? Basically, I read everything, anything, all things, and as often as I can. My friends all kid me about it, but as a University instructor, I tend to need to be well versed in everything from philosophy to physics, literature to linguistics. I've read Alastair Crowley to C.S. Lewis, Dante to Darwin. Religions, philosophy, and classical archaeology are hobbies of mine, whereas I've studied Genetic Engineering and Educational Philosophy for various degrees. The references I made all come from either my own personal library, or my University's library. Holy Blood, Holy Grail is pretty standard stuff... you should be able to find it in large bookstores, but it's a bit old to find in new bookstores... look in used ones. This book deals with the whole Joseph of Aramathea, San Greal (holy grail) vs. Sang Real (holy blood) issue, as well as the Templars, and I think a little on the priory of Zion. Secrets of the Templars is the same deal. Look in a used book store. (NB. To any brethren out there, I'm not giving away any secrets. These are public access books. I'm still within T.L.O.M.C.T.) Jesus died in Kashmir is difficult to find. I found it in my University's library. The basis of the book is as follows: 1. There's an authenticated letter from Pontius Pilate to Caesar stating that this Jesus guy was pretty cool, preached peace, and was more of a friend to the Romans than the Jewish Priests were, because at least he wanted things to be a quiet revolution. 2. Pontius Pilate, when he could've crucified Jesus at any time he wanted, chose to crucify him on Friday afternoon. By Jewish Law, crucifixion victims were taken down at the Sabbath, which started Friday Sundown. Christ was on the cross for only about 3-4 hours... but Crucifixion is supposed to be a death through exposure...Pilate didn't really want Christ dead, so he put him up for a 'token punishment'. 3. Christ was stabbed through the side in a manner in keeping with Jewish Torture traditions. The wound is bloody, painful, and you actually excrete a certain amount of clear-bloody liquid from a ruptured organ (can't remember which or how right now, sorry), but you don't die from it by a long shot! It looks messy, and is a great scare tactic, but you don't die. 4. Christ was interred in a tomb that was donated at the last minute by a wealthy landowner. The tomb was big enough for at least 3 people to stand in (according to the description), but this was totally against Jewish burial customs at that place and time. What's more, this 'donated tomb' has many strange features about it if one wants to bury some poor criminal in a desert climate, but it makes a great place for somebody to kill three days while they wait to be rescued from a 'faked death'. 5. Documents from various places across ancient Arabia, India, and the near East document Christ's training as a mystic, a yogi, and a guru before he returned to teach in Judea around the time of his thirtieth birthday. Documents from his old 'haunts' also document his flight back through these towns after faking his death. 6. Towns along this trail are suspiciously named things in Arabic, Hindi, etc., that translate as "christ-town", and "jesus-ville" and so on. 7. One of the towns along the way has the tomb of Mary, Jesus' mother, who legend has it died while fleeing with him. 8. Kashmir has the final tomb of Jesus Christ as a local shrine. It is documented as being built around the time Christ would've died of a natural old age. 9. One family name in Kashmir can actually trace their geneology back to Jesus Christ. There are surviving members of this family whom the entier community accepts as living descendants of Christ. It's interesting reading, well documented, and from an archaeological viewpoint, pretty good stuff. The letter from Pontius Pilate to Caesar is available through the library of Congress. Sincerely, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 23:21:44 -0800 From: Bruce Baugh Subject: Re: IN> Bodhi's 3rd Adventure Idea At 11:01 PM 2/23/97 +0000, Robert Wolff wrote: >Holy Blood, Holy Grail is pretty standard stuff... you should be able >to find it in large bookstores, but it's a bit old to find in new >bookstores... look in used ones. This book deals with the whole >Joseph of Aramathea, San Greal (holy grail) vs. Sang Real (holy >blood) issue, as well as the Templars, and I think a little on the >priory of Zion. Or lots of libraries, also. It's a hoot, a testament to bad methodology. (The authors assume that the actions of the rich and powerful must make sense, and that the theory which seems to account for all of the phenomena that interest them as aspects of a single conspiracy is more plausible than any assumption of multiple independent motives.) It holds a place of honor on my kook shelf. Much of it, I think, would fit in well with the In Nomine universe. - -- Bruce Baugh bruce@kenosis.com http://www.kenosis.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 02:25:02 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: IN> Re: Jesus faked his death On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Robert Wolff wrote: > Raoul Duke / Joe (I'm not sure how this address works...) wrote... Heh. Sorry to confuse. My name is Joe; the e-mail alias is in honor of that prince among men and Soldier of Nybbas, Hunter S. Thompson. > > > On another note, where did you find your references? Since picking up IN > > I've "coincidentally" become interested in the out-there side of the > > Biblical. Are these the sort of books I could find in a good library or > > would I have to go to an occult bookstore or some such? > > Basically, I read everything, anything, all things, and as often as > I can. My friends all kid me about it, but as a University > instructor, I tend to need to be well versed in everything from > philosophy to physics, literature to linguistics. I've read > Alastair Crowley to C.S. Lewis, Dante to Darwin. Religions, > philosophy, and classical archaeology are hobbies of mine, whereas > I've studied Genetic Engineering and Educational Philosophy for > various degrees. I figured you had some kind of professional interest in this sort of thing, but I wasn't quite sure how to ask... > 3. Christ was stabbed through the side in a manner in keeping with > Jewish Torture traditions. The wound is bloody, painful, and you > actually excrete a certain amount of clear-bloody liquid from a > ruptured organ (can't remember which or how right now, sorry), but > you don't die from it by a long shot! It looks messy, and is a great > scare tactic, but you don't die. I just had to save that bit of poetry. > The letter from Pontius Pilate to Caesar is available through the > library of Congress. Coool... Learn something new every day. Who says games can't be educational? Joe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 01:33:32 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: Calabim, was re:IN>Saints, Calabim and the joys of monotheism At 04:16 PM 2/23/97 -0600, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >> I'd say it depends on who the angel is working for. The resonance of >> Belial's demons burns its targets, or appears to -- neither flame nor heat >> is actually created, that's just the closest that the Symphony can come to >> representing the effect. Saminga's Calabim cause materials to rust, rot, >> shrink away into nothingness. Nybbas' Calabim . . . er, okay, I don't know >> what Nybbas' destroyers do. Anyone? > > Andrealphus- The Kiss of Death: The calabim kisses the subject, >which causes minor trembling and blushing as capillaries burst and blood >and certain other fluids erupt through the skin of living targets. >Inanimate objects would just crumble to dust, I suppose. Problem being that this is similar to another attunement Andre offers. > Asmodeus- The calabim's hand sends forth small chains with hooks >on the end, which rip small chunks free. A Hellraiser fan, I see. > Kobal- The calabim perhaps pulls out a toonish-looking stick of >dynamite, or perhaps an anvil falls on the subject. ;'} Or a piano or the like. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 02:36:57 -0500 (EST) From: morpheus@ici.net (anthony medeiros) Subject: IN> a bunch of stuff >If you don't like Angels who smoke Marijuana, Actually, I find it an amusing concept. In high school I created a rather tongue-in-cheek superhero team who were empowered by a pot smoking angel named Charlie Flyer. (Hmm...maybe I'll use him in my campaign.) >or demons who promote Rock and Roll over Speed Metal, or whether or >not Mutilitating Small Animals is a legitimate Word for the style of >campaign you want to play, or whatever silly focus happens to be the >main thrust of a Celestial's Anal-Obsessive Focus, just change it! Strip it >down and cannibalize it for parts! Learn, Adapt, Grow. I agree. So far I have created the Word-bound demons of Infanticide (who is responsible for many recent and very public child murders) and of False Hope. Not all Words have to be this serious, but too much silliness takes away from the intensity of the war between Good and Evil (and I'll leave the definition of that to the individual gamemaster to define that for his/her campaign!). >I'd say it depends on who the angel is working for. The resonance of >Belial's demons burns its targets, or appears to -- neither flame nor heat >is actually created, that's just the closest that the Symphony can come to >representing the effect. I'm confused. The rulebook states that Belial is stuck with representing Fire as an actual physical power unlike Gabriel whose Word of Fire is as much Concept as Physical. Please explain. >And I looked and behold a pale horse; and his name that sat on him >was DEATH and Hell followed him. And power was given unto them over >a fourth part of the earth to kill with SWORD with HUNGER and with >DEATH. Speaking of DEATH, i've done my own version of Azrael, Archangel of Death (since he was carelessly not mentioned in the main rules). I presented, for the most part, his Band/Servitor Attunements on a more passive level than one might think... Enough of my babble for now. I look forward to hearing other peoples ideas about IN. -Crucis, Malakite of Laurence ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:14:25 GMT From: "Psychedelic Goblin" <942777u@merkland.rgu.ac.uk> Subject: IN> Michael/Lucifer >I personally favor the "Lucifer as Obi Wan Kenobi" view, with Darth >Vader as Michael. Lucifer says, "If you strike me down, I shall >become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Yes, this is >twisting the Star Wars mythos around, but the idea of growing >stronger from an apparent defeat is sound, and is certainly how many >demons view the situation. >There may even be some truth to the matter. Yeah, sure. Let's look at all the examples from history. Carthage? No. Napoleon? Nope. Spain. No. Japan and Germany? Well, when Heaven starts a Marshall plan, I'll believe it (on that day disco will also die in Hell, the Pope will go Hassidic Jewish, and Michael will marry Novalis). Japan and Germany? Bad examples my friend, as they are among the strongest economies in the world at the present. Primarily due to technology and engineering of course. It's Vapula at work! ;-) Also, it could be cool if evil were stronger, because then the angels would be fighting a desperate fight against impossible odds. cheers - Psygoblin Psychedelic Goblin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:31:11 +0100 From: Sauli Warmenhoven <0512052.hio.ptf.ro.WAN.hro@ptfe40.hro.nl> Subject: Re: IN> "A Story of Lucifer" > > I'll post the answer here in case anyone else hasn't seen it. It's linked > > to off the IN homepage: > > > > http://www.io.com/sjgames/in-nomine/lucifer-tale.html > > This is one of the greatest pieces of literature on the matter of Good > 'o Satan. I think that's the utimate way of presenting him in the In > Nomine game.... As soon as I play, of course... > but what did he change in the contract? any idea's? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 04:55:48 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: Re: IN> "A Story of Lucifer" On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Sauli Warmenhoven wrote: > but what did he change in the contract? > any idea's? I figger he either changed a colon to a semicolon (or a period to a comma, or something), or added an entirely new punctuation mark. Of course, the tale doesn't mention whether he made the 'scritch' in the English or Demonic manuscripts... so it could have been something suitably sublime in Demonic which was then carried over to English. Anyway. -- fish, who's wanted a 'scritch' key on his keyboard ever since. | fish flowers (i don't exist!) ><> |\ |\ \ / | | | |\ | > \/ |/| | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, eidolon@io.com | |< /\ |/| | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | | \ / \ | | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:32:54 GMT From: "Psychedelic Goblin" <942777u@merkland.rgu.ac.uk> Subject: IN> Angelic Script A couple of people asked for the detail for the book featuring angelic script, and a damn fine (and detailed overview) about angels. Here it is: Angels - An Endangered Species by Malcolm Godwin. Boxtree Ltd. ISBN: 1 85283 506 0 cheers - Psygoblin ------------------------------ Date: 24 Feb 1997 11:45:09 U From: "Andy Butcher" Subject: IN> Re: Archangels and stuff Subject: Time: 11:24 OFFICE MEMO RE>Archangels and stuff Date: 24/02/97 >I just don't think that there'd be an angel of some addictive >and/or harmful substance. I'll leave it open to debate whether >or not marijuana falls under that category. Well, I suppose this all comes down to taste, but let's not forget that there's an Archangel of War, for starters... Besides, what about the host of drugs that either aren't harmful and/or addictive, or at least are a lot less harmful and/or addictive that alcohol and tobbacco? Andy Butcher ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #37 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.