From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Feb 28 17:17:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05063; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 14:46:38 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17169 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 14:50:06 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 14:50:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199702282050.OAA17169@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #48 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, February 28 1997 Volume 01 : Number 048 In this digest: IN> Adventure Seed #3 Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 IN> Male Lilim? Re: IN> Ultimate Aim for Diabolicals (was Re: Coolness of Evil) Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 Re: IN> Freed Lilim? IN> Where do the Heartless go? (Was: Lilim Hearts) IN> adventure seeds and other things Re: IN> Coolness of Evil Re: IN> More Malakite Oaths... IN> Lilim of E-Mail Flames (Was: The Four Horsemen) IN> Adventure Seed #3 Re: IN> The Four Horsemen Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 Re: IN> Freed Lilim? RE: IN> Freed Lilim? Re: IN> The Four Horsemen Re: IN> adventure seeds and other things Re: IN> Freed Lilim? Re: IN> The Four Horsemen Re: IN> The Four Horsemen IN> CP --> Forces question IN> The Four Horsemen NOISE Re: IN> The Four Horsemen NOISE IN> Characteristics and Forces Re: IN> Ultimate Aim for Diabolicals (was Re: Coolness of Evil) Re: IN> Characteristics and Forces Re: IN> The Four Horsemen Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 11:33:04 +0000 From: "J. S. Cardella" Subject: IN> Adventure Seed #3 Hey, if anyone else besides Robert Wolff likes these, could ya let me know? Otherwise I'll just mail 'em right to Bodhi! ===================================================== "I'm burnin', I'm burnin', I'm burnin' for you..." - Blue Oyster Cult ====================================================== Jordi's having one of his fits again. He's sent his Servitors to Boston, Massachusetts, to a place called Cubist Pharmeceuticals. Cubist is a leader in medical research. They have perfected a new transfusion technique whereby a blood recipient can receive from different donors of several different blood types a "logical" solution. In other words, in a pinch, a patient with a rare blood type can accept temporary transfusions from many different donors, and that will keep them alive until their blood type can be acquired. Jordi is pissed because Cubist uses a large amount of animal experimentation. The mission: free the cute fuzzy animals, burn down the building, and don't let anyone stop you from doing either one. Any animal which has been compromised (missing limbs, injected with cancer, etc.) needs to be put out of their misery as quickly and painlessly as possible. Each one will be attended to individually, to help ease the transition from here to hereafter. Simply torching the whole place and letting the diseased animals die in the blaze will generate at least one note of dissonance! Belial also has an interest in Cubist. Actually, he's interested in Jordi's interest. He has a few agents in place who've gotten wind of the plan, and they're going to help the fire go beyond just Cubist. Boston has a repuatation for out of control fires. So, what we have here is Jordi's plan, coupled with Belial's. Gabriel, when she learns what Belial is doing will certainly intervene, given the enmity between them. And there may be more than one Superior (Jean, for instance) who feels that Cubist's research is benefitting humans to a value far more than that of a few animals. PC's can work for anyone. Go Joe! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Joel Cardella "Chinese food IS my life" http://www.io.com/~dronf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:13:17 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Emord Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 I am especially fond of your adventure seeds, I apologize for not speaking up about it sooner, and infact good sir, they are one of the few reasons that I stay on this divergent list. Please keep them coming. Brian Emord Visit my homepage at http://www-scf.usc.edu/~emord - --* BEGIN GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- GCS/E d(+)>++ s+:+ a? C+++(++++)$ UBLAHS++$ P+++$ L++ E W++ N o K++ w O++ M-->--- V-- PS(++) PE(+)(-) Y+ PGP- t+@ 5+@ X R+(+++)* tv b++>+++ DI+++$ D G++ e(*)>++++ h+(*) r++>+++ y+ - --* END GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 11:23:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Male Lilim? At 4:51 PM -0500 2/27/97, John Maurer wrote: [...] >And COMPLETELY off topic... Are there Male Lilim? According to the book, IIRC, there are. But they're pretty rare -- most Lilim choose to be female. (Well, it is sorta parthenogenic, and Lilith is probably one of the few celestials who's actually *female* (rather than "whatever I feel like"), since she was created that way.) There's an interesting though -- maybe most Lilim are created female, and only a few males are made "To special order"? A male Lilim in celestial form probably looks like a green Impudite. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 11:30:20 -0500 From: dankmyka@wfu.edu Subject: Re: IN> Ultimate Aim for Diabolicals (was Re: Coolness of Evil) >Love of God: Check out my recent post, where I mentioned The Last >Temptation of Christ, and why Judas betrayed Jesus. Perhaps God needed a >bad guy, as someone proposed earlier. The trials of life would be >pointless without a source of conflict. So God asked Lucifer, his most >trusted angel, to rebel againt him. He hated to do it, but he knew it was >important. The universe, the angels, and most importantly, humanity, >could not be made perfect without a babtism in fire. This would be >perfect for the Habbalah, as it would explain why something that thinks >it serves God would be working evil. Speaking of which, if pwople are interested in this theme, it's flirted with in some of the early Kid Eternity comics. And, stealing an idea from Sandman, there's always the possibility that Lucifer was _ordered_ to betray God, but then hated Him in earnest once he found out what it was like to be out of the sight of God. "It's not fair..." - -- dankmyka@wfu.edu minimalist .sig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:42:22 +0000 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 > > Hey, if anyone else besides Robert Wolff likes these, could ya let me > know? Otherwise I'll just mail 'em right to Bodhi! > > ===================================================== > "I'm burnin', I'm burnin', I'm burnin' for you..." > - Blue Oyster Cult > ====================================================== > > Jordi's having one of his fits again. > > He's sent his Servitors to Boston, Massachusetts, to a place called > Cubist Pharmeceuticals. Cubist is a leader in medical research. They > have perfected a new transfusion technique whereby a blood recipient > can receive from different donors of several different blood types a > "logical" solution. In other words, in a pinch, a patient with a rare > blood type can accept temporary transfusions from many different > donors, and that will keep them alive until their blood type can be > acquired. > > Jordi is pissed because Cubist uses a large amount of animal > experimentation. The mission: free the cute fuzzy animals, burn down > the building, and don't let anyone stop you from doing either one. Any > animal which has been compromised (missing limbs, injected with > cancer, etc.) needs to be put out of their misery as quickly and > painlessly as possible. Each one will be attended to individually, to > help ease the transition from here to hereafter. Simply torching the > whole place and letting the diseased animals die in the blaze will > generate at least one note of dissonance! > > Belial also has an interest in Cubist. Actually, he's interested in > Jordi's interest. He has a few agents in place who've gotten wind of > the plan, and they're going to help the fire go beyond just Cubist. > Boston has a repuatation for out of control fires. > > So, what we have here is Jordi's plan, coupled with Belial's. Gabriel, > when she learns what Belial is doing will certainly intervene, given > the enmity between them. And there may be more than one Superior > (Jean, for instance) who feels that Cubist's research is benefitting > humans to a value far more than that of a few animals. > > PC's can work for anyone. Go Joe! > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Joel Cardella "Chinese food IS my life" > http://www.io.com/~dronf > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:38:26 -0600 (CST) From: "The Incredibly Unremarkable Cliffy Q. Scrimshaw" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 I haven't read any of the adventures presented thoroughly yet, but I skimmed them and like them. I hope to get the book soon.. (it's ordered at my local gaming store and has been since god-knows-when, but the distrib. hasn't sent it yet. When I do, these adventures will be at the very least good starting points, and may even be run. thank you. "Life is like a yo-yo: .-. it has its ups and downs, __ __| | plus a few loops now & then." \ V / (() --Matt, a.k.a. CliffyQS@Earthling.net |_| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 11:35 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Freed Lilim? >> The only restriction for 'working' for Lilith is the nine favors. This is >> in place of having to support her Word or gaining Dissonance under >> special circumstances, like other Superiors. However, you also don't get >> any nifty attunements or anything. > > Actually, Free Lilim are considered to be Servitors of Lilith, >according to Derek. I'm personally a little unsure as to whether that >applies in all circumstances, or until they run out of Geases, or simply >while they're on a Geas-mission. So in a manner of speaking they do have >access to rites... Derek previously answered a similar question from me: - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - Does a *really* free Lilim (one with no outstanding Geases, and not >bound to a Prince) get to continue using Lilith's Rites? (I think Derek >said that all "free" Lilim with a Geas to her are considered servitors >of Lilith, and thus get them.) Yup. Don't forget that if you get her Rites, you're subject to dissonance through her as well. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:12:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Where do the Heartless go? (Was: Lilim Hearts) At 6:54 PM -0500 2/27/97, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: >Moriah said: >>>Lilim who are 'free' don't have a heart . > >>Aaron retorted: >>Then if they are "killed" on the corporeal plane, where do they show up. I >>believe it was said (I don't have a page number) that if a celestial is >>killed corporeally(sp?) he shows up near his heart, and begin contemplating >>his death. So where do free lilim show up? > > We're discussing that now. No, you're not cleared to know who 'we' are. You might be surprised. Fnord. >We've got the same problem with Outcast, Renegade, and Grigori celestials. > > Me, I'd create Limbo for them, a celestial neutral ground. Other options >are that they remain celestial on earth, subject to celestial damage and >final death until they can get another vessel. If they don't have the >character points for another vessel, or a Superior to give them one, they may >have to barter for one or trade in a Force for free character points. The "celestial on earth" notion is interesting -- does a "free-wandering" celestial make noise wherever it goes, or just at the first manifestation as celestial? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:37:07 -0500 From: Tim Seiger Subject: IN> adventure seeds and other things First of all, I would like to thank everyone who has been posting adventure seeds. These are a blessing for those GMs (myself included) who are lacking in either creativity or time, and no seed is a bad seed (sorry, couldn't resist). Even if I disagree with the premise of an adventure seed, it still usually gets my thinknig about ways to refine it so that I would use it in my own campaign. So please, keep those seeds coming... On another note, on the SJ website, under upcoming products, it mentions that an IN Hardback is in production, yet there is no mention of this on the IN site. Will this just be a hardback copy of the first rules, or will some of the errata and issues discussed on this list be included? Thanks for lending an ear, and for all the great ideas. - -Tim - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed above are not necessarily affiliated with Digital in any way. I am an employee, not a spokesperson. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:50:01 -0500 (EST) From: DeltaS Subject: Re: IN> Coolness of Evil On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Don Fnordlioni wrote: > By the by, for all of you keeping score at home, all this business about > the Devil a) being as strong as God, and b) actually working /for/ God by > providing an "evil" alternative to God, and thus, working for God, is all > terribly heretical, and you'd all be burned if you wrote these things down > only a few centuries ago. > > Don Fnordlioni, Habblah of Dark Humor That was me. I believe that was me. Burn baby burn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:13:39 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> More Malakite Oaths... > > And while we're talking about Samurai/Malakim and their hobbies, don't > forget Neko Bana: the Japanese art of cat arranging. That would be Ike-neko, actually. (I've taken over three years of japanese and I STILL can't speak the damned language...) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:22:15 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Lilim of E-Mail Flames (Was: The Four Horsemen) At 9:43 AM -0500 2/28/97, Don Fnordlioni wrote: >On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Raven wrote: > [...] >I'm with Kestrel -- I have no love for Christians, and I'm not afraid to >come right out and say it. I don't like what they've done to Western >civilization, and I don't like the "oh, that was then, this is now" dodge. Actually, I think it depends on individuals. (Though stars know that some individual fundie-types start looking an awfully lot like a generality...) Mind you, until I moved up from Texas and met some sensible Christians, I thought pretty lowly of the religion as a whole. I'm still way "freedom" oriented to be comfortable with a relgion that has "worship the big guy, or you're toast eventually" as one of the main points, though. (Gray Lilim, right here...) But there are sincere Christians who don't try to convert me, so I'm happy. To actually put a game-spin on this... How appropriate is it to make the Other Side (whichever the PCs aren't on) occasionally sympathetic? An honorable demon, or an angel who doesn't run for the nearest Malakim squad when you're on vacation? Celestials are individuals as well -- even Archangels. Look at Dominic and Novalis: would you *really* think they were on the same side if you didn't know better? Who knows, maybe Nicole is still fond of her Impudite ex-boyfriend... >May the flaming begin! Just watch out for Gabriel-Jean tag-teaming. >Don Fnordlioni, Habbalah of Dark Humor, hoping to score points with the >Lillim of E-Mail Flames for invoking Nazis in a thread. Nope, won't work -- you have to get mixed up in a *computer*-oriented flame. It's part of the bargain with Vapula, dontcha know. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 11:18:47 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: IN> Adventure Seed #3 Again, my support to you for writing up your adventure and posting it. Your adventures are well thought out, interesting, and all have a good "hook" to keep the game from getting stale. That's what I like about them. Obviously, somebody else likes them as well. The adventures that had been posted as of Feb. 26 were posted on the In Nomine Collections pages at Nocturne. Obviously some people are enjoying your stuff. Odd's are, if we keep posting them, other people will keep putting them up on the Web. Way to go! On a personal note, I would't take disparaging comments from other people too much to heart. I'm finding out some things about the psychology/sociology of the list. 1. Good, nice, supportive people sometimes just don't have the time to respond positively to everything they like. Thus, "no news may be good news", as it may mean people like an idea and simply filed it away for future use. People don't always become motivated to respond from positive reactions. 2. Tired, over-worked, and confused people sometimes make mistakes, mis-interpret things, or become overly critical / anal-retentive about certain ridiculous issues. Thus, "nice guys" can sometimes make a boo-boo, and come across as complete nimrods. Retractions aren't common, and it some people's all-too- human nature to defend whatever ridiculous position you took (even if you now no longer agree with it). 3. You can't please everybody. Some people are hard-wired to an opposite polarity from you, and will simply view things in a completely different fashion. There are some people who interpret certain personalities, archangel's Words, etc. in a completely different fashion, and will probably NEVER see your side, no matter how much you support it, or bring in external "resources" to back up your perspective. Odds are, they have "resources" too. Sometimes you have to just let others disagree with you. 4. People read their e-mail in different ways. I read mine at least five times a day. Others read it twice a week. Thus, some people's responses will seem strangely out-of-date or off-topic. It's simply the nature of the Beast. Wait a little before forming your opinion of the "group's" reaction. 5. People are reticent to say anything. There are some who respond in extremely overly-critical fashions on lists such as these, and putting one's ideas "out there" is often nerve-wracking. There are far more lurkers than posters. The "squeeky wheels" probably don't represent their opinions adequately, so it might help to remember that lurkers generally read everything, and take away the stuff they like. 6. Lists are democratic. Everybody has a right to their opinion, no matter how stupid, non-insightful, short-sighted, or pathetic. Thus, let everybody say their peace, but remember what Socrates had to say about democracy... "it is the tyranny of the _mediocre_!! - - Thus, if you don't get the responses you expected, you can mitigate your emotional reaction a little by remembering the previous points. I like your stuff. I'd like to see everybody have a chance to read it. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Did you hear the one about the Buddhist Monk who Walked up to the hot-dog vendor and said ... "Make me One with everything!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:25:30 -0500 (EST) From: DeltaS Subject: Re: IN> The Four Horsemen On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Deathdog bitched at, Raven who had criticized Kestral who hates Christians: > [lots deleted] Me too please Now kids.. it's all fun and games till someone loses an eye. ;) -DeltaS The Angel of Posturing, Cheribum of Janus. Rite: Soul of the Poseur ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:38:58 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, David.Evans wrote: [Exactly what Joe Cardella wrote.] David, this is the second time today you've replied to someone, included their entire message, and failed to add anything. What gives? This is pretty bizarre behaviour... -- fish. | fish flowers (i don't exist!) ><> |\ |\ \ / | | | |\ | > \/ |/| | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, eidolon@io.com | |< /\ |/| | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | | \ / \ | | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:59:30 -0600 (CST) From: Thany Subject: Re: IN> Freed Lilim? On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Raven wrote: > So, once you've worked off the favors, you're free. You still have a home > in Hell, but are not bound to any Superior. I would have figured that, at least, you were still considered a Servitor of Lilith? > No one commands you; no man, no Prince. (Oops, sorry. That's Vampire. Do > I get Dissonance for that?) No, but you do get the Goth Discord (Ethereal; you get Dissonance for wearing anything other than black, obsessively write bad poetry, and gain Fear/4 (Sun)). > By the way, Hi. I'm new to the list. Welcome to the nightmare. So am I. - -- Disclaimer: Those opinions are mine, but have been presented in such a way that everyone will blame you for them. Sosumi. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 11:30:08 -0800 From: Nicholas Jost Subject: RE: IN> Freed Lilim? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC256A.C1201E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> No one commands you; no man, no Prince. (Oops, sorry. That's Vampire. = Do=20 >> I get Dissonance for that?) >No, but you do get the Goth Discord (Ethereal; you get Dissonance for=20 >wearing anything other than black, obsessively write bad poetry, and = gain=20 >Fear/4 (Sun)). =20 I know this was a joke but it does make a very interesting, if a bit = harsh, discord. Can you imagine an Elohim writing bad poetry? 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The Roman Catholic Church has been the biggest offender > > in this realm, at least as far a judeo-christian religions. However, it > > has generally been the church's /leadership/ that has been corrupt, /not/ > > the masses of Christian people who made up Europe's population during the > > Crusades and witch hunts. > You know, you're right. > And, on second look, I've decided to become a Nazi. I can smell sarcasm, but I can't see it. > Just don't start bashing me just cause of World War II, or bring up that > whole genocide thing. That was the leadership's fault, not mine. I saw a cartoon once, showing three of the major Nazi war criminals (I don't remember their names) imitating the "Hear No Evil" statue, with the caption "What Holocaust?" > > I am trying my best not to flame here, but I get deeply disturbed when > > people start categorically dismissing people based on their religion. > > It's no better than basing it on skin color or gender. > Actually, there's a big difference -- you can't choose your sex or color. Difference? When did he mention a difference? It's STILL no better, and makes you no better than them. > I'm with Kestrel -- I have no love for Christians, and I'm not afraid to > come right out and say it. I don't like what they've done to Western > civilization, and I don't like the "oh, that was then, this is now" dodge. Do you have some Grand Scheme (capitalized a la Pooh) to change it? Unless you do, you're just screaming at a brick wall. > May the flaming begin! Wheeeeeeeeeeee. - -- Disclaimer: Those opinions are mine, but have been presented in such a way that everyone will blame you for them. Sosumi. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:37:50 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: Re: IN> adventure seeds and other things On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Tim Seiger wrote: > On another note, on the SJ website, under upcoming products, it mentions > that an IN Hardback is in production, yet there is no mention of this on > the IN site. Will this just be a hardback copy of the first rules, or > will some of the errata and issues discussed on this list be included? The hardback edition will be internally identical to the softback. Not even known errata will be corrected; basically, they overprinted the interiors and decided to do something cool with the rest. This seems to have pissed a lot of people off, but I personally won't mind having two copies of the rules -- one to use myself, and one to loan out or use during play sessions as another reference. -- fish. | fish flowers (i don't exist!) ><> |\ |\ \ / | | | |\ | > \/ |/| | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, eidolon@io.com | |< /\ |/| | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | | \ / \ | | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 13:44:30 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Freed Lilim? At 09:16 PM 2/27/97 -0600, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: > >What, if anything, would happen if a Lilim managed to pay off all her >Geases? >(for another, how do you spell the plural of geas?) Geasa, and she's a Free Lilim for real. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 13:44:31 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> The Four Horsemen At 08:33 PM 2/27/97 -0800, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >> >Kestrel: >> >I'm not. I have a low opinion of Christians in general, particularly >> >the ones who proclaim it from the mountaintops. > >Oh really? Statistically speaking, there's a good chance that at least >one person you're on good terms with is Christian, and even goes to >church on Sunday, but surprise surprise, he doesn't preach or proselytize >every chance he gets. He just believes in the Christian god and chooses >to worship Him. See my follow-up post, wherein I reemphasize the words "in general". Remember, I AM a Catholic. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 13:44:34 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> The Four Horsemen At 12:19 AM 2/28/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >In a message dated 97-02-28 00:07:41 EST, Kestrel writes: > >> I don't know enough about you to say, but >> about half the "Christians" I know are either hateful bastards >> or think that God gave people free will, but Christians can >> take it away. Self-deluded "Soldiers of the Lord" who go on a >> "war" against atheists on ng and the like. Remember, -I- am >> a Christian as well. > >Heh... > >About ninety percent of EVERYBODY I know are either hateful bastards or think >that they're entitled to curtail my free will. True, there are those folks >who declare virtual crusades on newsgroups, but it seems there's a fair share >of self-declared pagans who are always looking to scrap it up with a >monotheist or two, as well. Sucks to be you, man. Most of the people I know are generally (heh) cool. >I seem to recall that this started as a discussion about Dominic... shall we >ask ourselves at this point if it still is? Yep. Dominic's like that. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:52:39 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: IN> CP --> Forces question A quickie: Can beginning characters convert their starting character points to attribute points/Forces? It makes a certain amount of sense to me, but then you get the related question, namely: If beginning characters convert their CPs to attributes/Forces, do they then get more CPs for the attribute points gained, seeing as how starting CPs are based on attributes? So if you were to buy a 10-point Force, you'd get four of those points back, making the final cost six points. This last, of course, is hooey, but one of my players insists it's a possibility. -- fish. | fish flowers (i don't exist!) ><> |\ |\ \ / | | | |\ | > \/ |/| | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, eidolon@io.com | |< /\ |/| | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | | \ / \ | | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 14:37:19 -0500 (EST) From: DeltaS Subject: IN> The Four Horsemen NOISE On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Don Fnordlioni wrote: > You know, you're right. > And, on second look, I've decided to become a Nazi. > Just don't start bashing me just cause of World War II, or bring up that > whole genocide thing. That was the leadership's fault, not mine. ohmygod. ;) I was wondering when he's start up on this. BTW this is kinda off topic that's why I put NOISE at the end of the subject. So hit DELETE now if you don't care. ;) > Actually, there's a big difference -- you can't choose your sex or color. Valid point. Yes it's true that historically christians have been responsible for slaying of ... I dunno - millions and millions of people... But don't diss everyone who is a christian, and here is why: I have to say that I respect the man, Jesus Christ a great deal. If he said, and I think he did, most of the things that are in the bible then he is deserving of my respect. But then again, I don't think he was a 'turn the other cheek' kinda guy anyways, I always LOVED the idea of him kicking ass in the temple with the money changers. heh. gotta love it. But that's mho. Do I respect someone who says, "take care of each other". Do I respect someone who says, "HEY.. don't so this in here, this is a place where we should be taking philosophy, and taking care of the poor, quit making money here". Do I respect someone who is willing to die for what they believe, never ever recanting, even when they *know* that they are going to die? yes. My yes. What a man he was. A man very deserving of respect. And a man whom I believe that I should try and endeavor to be like. I'm talking history here now, not just hokey religions ;) Jesus Christ was a man. And he probably did lots of the things that the Bible says he did, exagerations aside. I guess the point is this: It isn't his fault that things got so screwy, and he'd prolly kick lots more butt if he knew all the crap that went down in his name. Bottom line: I think, if you've gotta worship something, it's kinda cool to worship a guy like that. It's just a shame that so much gets lost in the translation. And even IF he was not a historical person, (which he was) and everything in the new testement is made up... it's still a worthy story. Worthy of our respect. And I wish there was a man like that. Even if he couldn't turn water into wine, or cure leporacy. (and I'm really gunna regret writing this. I think.) > I'm with Kestrel -- I have no love for Christians, and I'm not afraid to > come right out and say it. I don't like what they've done to Western > civilization, and I don't like the "oh, that was then, this is now" dodge. It's not a that was then/ this is now dodge. I'm just saying that just because organizations do nasty things, you shouldn't condem the quiet little guy who's a member. > May the flaming begin! Gah. I'd rather wait and get you when I get home. heh. > "The other night in the parkling lot, a Christian said to me, 'Brother, I > will pray for you.' 'No, sir,' I retorted, 'you will BE prey for me!'" > --Reverend Joe Momma, SubGenius Tour of Slack, 1995. HAHAH Gods *that* was funny! I love Joe Momma! I'll worship him! -DeltaS The Angel of Posturing, Cheribum of Janus. Rite: Soul of the Poseur ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:18:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Four Horsemen NOISE At 2:37 PM -0500 2/28/97, DeltaS wrote: >On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Don Fnordlioni wrote: [...] >> I'm with Kestrel -- I have no love for Christians, and I'm not afraid to >> come right out and say it. I don't like what they've done to Western >> civilization, and I don't like the "oh, that was then, this is now" dodge. > >It's not a that was then/ this is now dodge. I'm just saying that just >because organizations do nasty things, you shouldn't condem the quiet >little guy who's a member. So long as he's living by his beliefs, and not trying to shove them down someone else's throat (control in the name of "God's Love," feh!). (Free Lilim of the world, unite...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:13:56 -0500 From: khayman@grfn.org (Botanically Challenged) Subject: IN> Characteristics and Forces If a character has no forces in an area how are characteristics determined? The example I have is that one of my players wants to play a remnant and since he can have no celestial forces he wants to know how he can assign celestial characteristics. Thank you kindly for your time. Anthony ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:28:14 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Ultimate Aim for Diabolicals (was Re: Coolness of Evil) On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 dankmyka@wfu.edu wrote: > And, stealing an idea from Sandman, there's always the possibility that > Lucifer was _ordered_ to betray God, but then hated Him in earnest once he > found out what it was like to be out of the sight of God. "It's not fair..." Or to quote from "Wholly Moses": (Satan, played by John Ritter, dressed in cheezy lycra devil suit) "One day, God just said, 'Here, try this suit on...'" |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:36:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Characteristics and Forces At 3:13 PM -0500 2/28/97, Botanically Challenged wrote: > If a character has no forces in an area how are characteristics >determined? The example I have is that one of my players wants to play a >remnant and since he can have no celestial forces he wants to know how he >can assign celestial characteristics. I'd be cruel and vicious and say 0. He shambles through life, noticing nothing till it smacks him in the ankle, and having not the willpower to resist the slightest TV commercial... Failing that, give him Celestial Forces 0, and an effective 1 or 2 for Will and Perception -- he can notice very obvious things, but is pretty conufused about the world. Here's another question -- could an Archangel or Demon Prince (if they chose to fritter around doing so, that is) restore a force a Remnant? Something like this is how Mummies and Vampires are made, so it would seem to be possible... The main problem with doing that, it seems, is that it's nigh- impossible to track 'em down if they get away, and they have an urge to get away from the reminders of their former glory. Now I'm thinking of an "Old Remnant's Home," where they're taken care of by celestials who are very, very careful not to reveal what's going on. (Except intact celestials have problems being around 'em, though. Hm...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 14:39:15 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> The Four Horsemen At 01:25 PM 2/28/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Deathdog bitched at, Raven who had criticized Kestral >who hates Christians: What I said is that I don't like Christians in general. I never said that I hated them, or that I hated all of them. And it's KestrEl. No 'A'. >> [lots deleted] >Me too please > >Now kids.. it's all fun and games till someone loses an eye. > >;) Then the fun really begins. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 15:42 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 [Bodhi:] >On a personal note, I would't take disparaging comments from other >people too much to heart. I'm finding out some things about the >psychology/sociology of the list. > >1. Good, nice, supportive people sometimes just don't have the time >to respond positively to everything they like. Thus, "no news may >be good news", as it may mean people like an idea and simply filed >it away for future use. People don't always become motivated to >respond from positive reactions. This is true -- I've been glancing at and filing the adventure seeds for future reference, but not reading them in detail or commenting on them. I simply don't have time to, nor do I want to just "me, too", unless I'm going to contribute some value-added. And Bodhi's right that this is characteristic of the net in general. If you're lucky, you may get a piece of positive email for every dozen or hundred people who actually like your stuff. So it goes... - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #48 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.