From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Mar 5 16:26:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18943; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:25:00 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA16769 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:27:41 -0600 Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:27:41 -0600 Message-Id: <199703052227.QAA16769@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #55 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, March 5 1997 Volume 01 : Number 055 In this digest: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> What _was_ that book? Re: IN> New NetRep/John Number of skills (Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers) IN> Divine Tethers Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements IN> and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Talisman Costs Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements Re: IN> What _was_ that book? IN> Another book with an IN feel Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers IN> Choir/Band attunements Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Riders and Hosts Re: IN> Talisman Costs Re: Number of skills (Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers) IN> gaming group IN> Secrets (Re: Number of skills) Re: IN> gaming group Malikim and weapons was: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> What _was_ that book? IN> A Few Things I Thought Sounded Neat Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:00:28 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers On Mar 5, 10:26am, Joel Cardella (Not Joseph!) wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > On 5 Mar 97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > Six is the max. Not four, not five, and seven is right out! > > (Okay, okay so I'm misquoting LoB... sue me.) > > For shame, for shame! I will sue you for breach of misnomer! This was > from MP & The Holy Grail (3 being the number reached...etc.) I hang my head in shame. Woe is me! (LoB has been on my mind a lot when I answer In Nomine questions...) ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:28:26 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> What _was_ that book? At 9:36 PM -0500 3/4/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Holly Lisle had a book about about angels and devil >and the damnation and redemption of the same. Anyone remember >the name of the book? It had an In Nomine-esque feel to >it without the grandeur that IN tries to capture. _Sympathy for the Devil_ and a sequal, _The Devil and [forgot the name]_ -- should be findable at a bookstore or orderable at Powells or something ( http://www.powells.portland.or.us/ , a very nice online bookstore). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:30:11 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New NetRep/John At 9:10 AM -0500 3/5/97, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: >>> Moriah >>> GURPS Line Editor >> >> Funny, I thought Sean did that... > > Either I was posting too late at night or I was channeling Sean again. I'd be careful doing that -- you never know which GURPS books he's been editing, and you might get all icky if he's been doing GURPS Biotech again... emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:39:31 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Number of skills (Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers) At 8:44 AM -0500 3/5/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> 1) Is there a maximum level for Skills? The Character-Creation Quick >> Reference on p. 36 of the core rulebook says that you can only get up to 6 >> levels for artifacts, skills, Songs, and everything else... but what about >> through experience? It seems reasonable to allow it... but it also seems >> open to abuse, too. > > Six is the max. Not four, not five, and seven is right out! >(Okay, okay so I'm misquoting LoB... sue me.) ;) There actually *is* a clear statement of this in the book -- but it's one sentence, in one place, and that place is tucked away somewhere obscure. We found it once, and promptly lost it again. :-pbpbptt! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:41:06 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: IN> Divine Tethers > Remember how scared the demons were that a > divine tether might be created in the story in the rulebook? > This gives you a good example of how important, and dangerous, > a tether is to the other side. I just thought I'd jump in and mention that we had an interesting point about our gaming group the other night. We game in Edmonton, Alberta, and decided that since IN is a relatively new game, we'd have the setting right here in Edmonton. It's not that I have anything against setting it in New York, Paris, Austin, Dallas, etc., but we decided to play up the "realistic" factor a bit, and we have painstakingly accurate information about Edmonton, so there you go. Anyway, the question of "who is winning the War in Edmonton" came up. One of my players wanted to know if there was a tether in Edmonton, for either side. Taking as our examples things like Notre Dame, and other world-class areas of note, we thought Edmonton might just have escaped any Grand notice so far, for either good or evil. Then it hit us. West Edmonton Mall. One of the largest centers of retail sales and tourist-sales-cum-ripoff schemes ever built on the planet. It's a tribute to salesmanship, glitz, hype, and commerce. ... and to top it all off, the owners are a pair of brothers, who happen to be EXTREMELY orthodox Jews...almost fanatical in their Faith. (sounds like they KNOW what the score is, and are simply trying to settle their accounts while here on Earth...) Our very own tether to Marc, archangel of Trade, right here in Edmonton. Not overly exciting, but I figured that would simply step up the demonic attempts to counter the Divine foothold in Edmonton. Nice excuse for blowing the not-damned-yet place up, no? hee hee hee Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Did you hear the one about the Buddhist Monk who Walked up to the hot-dog vendor and said ... "Make me One with everything!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:41:58 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, JOHN C DYE wrote: > > > On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:15:46 -0800 (PST) Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> writes: > >Someone in my gaming group said that you can buy attunements for your > >Choir/Band of other superiors. i.e., a Cherub of Michael could buy any > >of > >Michael's attunements AND any Cherubim attunements from other > >Archangels. > > > If I recall, and Choir/Band specific attunements can be bought. So an > attunement which is only good for a Seraphim because of his resonence > could not be bought, but an attunement such as the Malakim of Gabriel > have of lighting up their hands could be bought by any servitor of > Gabriel (or anyone else whom she deems worthy, but not at character > creation) > I don't think that anyone has answered the original question, which was whether one could buy an attunement that was of one's OWN choir or band, but NOT of your supperior. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:44:31 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> and Divine Tethers At 9:36 AM -0500 3/5/97, JOHN C DYE wrote: >On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:03:03 -0500 "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" > writes: >>>> A divine tether, in a lot of ways, is just an >>>>extension of heaven on earth. And without massive protections >>>>of one sort or another, I'd say that a demon in heaven itself >>>>_is_ instantly destroyed. (Awww, give 'em a roll if they wind up there. On a 666, they've been rescued by Lucifer for some reason and on a 111, God took an interest and Redeemed the demon right there. Mind you, any demon daft enough to go to Heaven on its own is going to deserve the hugemongeous tasks it's about to be assigned...) [...] >>> Either that, or an Archangel can protect a demon to drag it up >>> to Heaven to retune. >> >> I imagine the Archangel could do it elsewhere, but it's >>probably MUCH easier in a tether or in heaven. I like the >>'retuning' image... you are bring a flawed soul back into >>harmony, so having the Symphony in one of its purer forms >>(heaven or a tether) makes it easier. [...] > >This is very dramatic, and even a pretty scene, but I have a problem with >this interpretation of a divine tether. If an angelic tether is >established, what can the demons do to "beat back the beachhead" if they >cannot even get near it? If such was the case, the War would have been >won a long time ago. They can go near it -- just not in celestial form. This makes it quite difficult to mess with, yes, but you can go in there in a couple dozen vessels and try to throw the Tether-keepers out if you want. You can even use Songs and relics and such, I'd figure. You just can't go celestial or you're crispy crittered. I would assume that angels could do similar things as well... (Why do I think of money-lenders being kicked out here?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:52:10 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements > I don't think that anyone has answered the original question, which was > whether one could buy an attunement that was of one's OWN choir or band, > but NOT of your supperior. It doesn't say you can, so you can't. fnord. If any disagrees with this, come armed with a page number or a missive by Derek or Moriah. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:14:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements At 10:52 AM -0500 3/5/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> I don't think that anyone has answered the original question, which was >> whether one could buy an attunement that was of one's OWN choir or band, >> but NOT of your supperior. > > It doesn't say you can, so you can't. fnord. If any >disagrees with this, come armed with a page number or a missive >by Derek or Moriah. ;) Except that Servitors of Eli (and Lilim) can get (though it's not automatic) attunements from their current Superiors -- I think we treated it as "an attunement from your Servitor's selection" cost, with an explanation for why they have it. (This cost, BTW, jibes with Ana, Malakim of Eli serving Gabriel -- I added up her totals, and if she paid that cost for Malakim of Fire, then she comes out okay (except for her special rite, that is).) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 97 11:11 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > A divine tether, in a lot of ways, is just an >extension of heaven on earth. And without massive protections >of one sort or another, I'd say that a demon in heaven itself >_is_ instantly destroyed. This is probably quite reasonable, since there seems to be no way to force a demon into heaven. On the other hand, it's not so hard to drag a corporeal vessel to a tether. At this point, unless the demon is stunned somehow, the demon's best bet is probably to go celestial before reaching the tether -- after all, tethers are implied to be "noisy", so it's not like the demon doesn't know where they're going. Unless the demon has been fooled into thinking it's a demonic tether.... In any case, I don't think automatic instant death is a good thing to put in as a game mechanic for anything that a PC can be forced into somehow. (A demon trying to ascend to heaven, I would presume to be a voluntary action, and as I understand it, they wouldn't get there, anyway.) BTW, when a corporeal vessel is killed, does one consider this "going celestial" when the inhabitant returns to the celestial plane involuntarily? (Presumably, if the celestial just switches bodies, the usual "noise" for a form-switch applies.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:14:09 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, fish wrote: > On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > An archangel stripping a demon down to its very core (its > > Celestial Form) and laying its Forces bare against the > > backdrop of the heavens, and then holding it together > > long enough for it gain the Divine status. I imagine there > > is a crucial point, when the pain of conversion is at its > > highest as the essence of the demon is being restructured, > > that the creature, still a being of free will, might doubt > > that it is doing the right thing and be utterly destroyed. > > Or, , if the Archangel is particularly vindictive (Dominic > springs to mind), it could decieve the demon into Redeeming itself, and > then leave it to fry in God's glory... > > Actually, now that I think about it, that's not something even > Dominic would do. I don't *think*... Dominic no. Michael would do it with a smile on his face, and a dirge in his heart. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:19:57 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > 1) Is there a maximum level for Skills? The Character-Creation Quick > > Reference on p. 36 of the core rulebook says that you can only get up to 6 > > levels for artifacts, skills, Songs, and everything else... but what about > > through experience? It seems reasonable to allow it... but it also seems > > open to abuse, too. > > Six is the max. Not four, not five, and seven is right out! > (Okay, okay so I'm misquoting LoB... sue me.) ;) By a long way. The line you were misquoying is from Holy Grail, not life of Brian. ;-) Shadowcat > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:29:34 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Talisman Costs On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Raven wrote: > (First off: No way does a kukri count as a small weapon. The things are > designed to cleave off large parts of a person.) Actualy that depends. Kukri range is size from about the size of a bowie knife, through big enough to behead a cow. (My uncle butchers his own cows, so yes I do have first hand experience). So I would say you have to specify what type it is from "Enlisted" (the smallest) through "Regimental" (basicly a small sword). Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 97 11:36 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > Mind you, the rules for tethers are still be being >worked out, so you have to play it by ear til then. Also, >creating a tether is not an easy process! It is probably >quite draining on the creator, both at the beginning and >maintenance costs (you think connecting heaven to earth >is _easy_?). It's stated in the book that some tethers form spontaneously, though. (I think the exmaple was the beaches of Normandy after D-Day.) I have one of those at the MIT Media Lab (to Jean, naturally) -- so much computing power and invention in one place.... (There's probably an infernal equivalent to Vapula at the NSA.) The notion of spontaneous Tether formation implies that there ought to be a *lot* of scrambling as one side locates and defends the newly-formed Tether, and the other side tries to break it up before it becomes defensible.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 97 11:42 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements > I don't think that anyone has answered the original question, which was >whether one could buy an attunement that was of one's OWN choir or band, >but NOT of your supperior. I believe the answer is no, with two current exceptions, as I understand it: Servitors of Eli (who are now in service to another Archangel), and Lilim (who can wind up with nearly anything through favor-trading). Presumably, any Superior can grant any attunment of theirs to anybody they want, though this is explicitly stated only for servitor attunements, not choir attunements. And there will be political ramifications.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:38:35 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> What _was_ that book? On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > Holly Lisle had a book about about angels and devil > and the damnation and redemption of the same. Anyone remember > the name of the book? It had an In Nomine-esque feel to > it without the grandeur that IN tries to capture. Actualy there are two. The first was "Sympathy For the Devil" ISBN 0-671-87703-8. This is the One with Dayne, Adam/Agonostis, and company. Probaly the one you are thinking of. The other is "The Devil and Dan Cooley" cowritten with Walter Spence, ISBN 0-671-87756-9. Not as good as the first, but still a lot of fun. Hope this helps. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:19:33 -0600 (CST) From: Russ Collins Subject: IN> Another book with an IN feel I just finished reading a facinating novel called _The Club Dumas_ by Arturo Perez-Reverte, translated from the Spanish by Sonia Soto. I won't say much about it, in order to avoid spoiling any of the plot, but it does involve a possible method to summon the Devil. I'd also like to quote a couple of paragraphs from page 217 of the Harcourt Brace & Company hardcover. The protaganist, Corso, is discussing Lucifer's fall with a mysterious young woman who calls herself "Irene Adler": "It was worse for those who followed him." It took Corso a moment to understand who she meant. "Those he dragged down with him: soldiers, messengers, servants by trade and by calling. Some mercenaries, like you... Many didn't even realize that they were choosing between submission and freedom, between God and mankind. Out of habit, with the absurd loyalty of faithful soldiers, they followed their leader in rebellion and defeat." "Like Xenophon's ten thousand," teased Corso. She was silent a moment, surprised by his accuracy. "Maybe," she said at last. "Out in the world alone, they still hope that their leader will one day take them home." Russ Collins rgc@io.com "Once one dismisses the rest of all possible worlds, One finds that this is the best of all possible worlds." -- Candide (Berstein, Sondheim) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:52:28 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers On Mar 5, 11:11am, Walter Milliken wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > > A divine tether, in a lot of ways, is just an > >extension of heaven on earth. And without massive protections > >of one sort or another, I'd say that a demon in heaven itself > >_is_ instantly destroyed. > > This is probably quite reasonable, since there seems to be no way to > force a demon into heaven. On the other hand, it's not so hard to drag > a corporeal vessel to a tether. At this point, unless the demon is > stunned somehow, the demon's best bet is probably to go celestial before > reaching the tether -- after all, tethers are implied to be "noisy", so > it's not like the demon doesn't know where they're going. Unless the > demon has been fooled into thinking it's a demonic tether.... > > In any case, I don't think automatic instant death is a good thing to > put in as a game mechanic for anything that a PC can be forced into > somehow. (A demon trying to ascend to heaven, I would presume to be a > voluntary action, and as I understand it, they wouldn't get there, > anyway.) You absolutely need an Archangel to be Redeemed so, presumably, the Archangel is doing _something_ in the process. Keeping a new recruit from exploding all over heaven seems reasonable enough. ;) An unredeemed demon cannot get to heaven under their own power. In tethers, on the other hand, my suggestion only had them taking a lot of damage per round as their essential demonic natures were exposed to the fringes of heaven. > BTW, when a corporeal vessel is killed, does one consider this "going > celestial" when the inhabitant returns to the celestial plane > involuntarily? (Presumably, if the celestial just switches bodies, the > usual "noise" for a form-switch applies.) Destroying a Celestial's Vessel doesn't create noise, just as harming a Celestial's Vessel doesn't make any. The Forces are scattered and recoalesce around their heart, but they do it rather quietly. They don't 'go celestial' in any sort of organized way. This is one of the reasons that Trauma exists. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:57:53 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers On Mar 5, 11:36am, Walter Milliken wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > > Mind you, the rules for tethers are still be being > >worked out, so you have to play it by ear til then. Also, > >creating a tether is not an easy process! It is probably > >quite draining on the creator, both at the beginning and > >maintenance costs (you think connecting heaven to earth > >is _easy_?). > > It's stated in the book that some tethers form spontaneously, though. > (I think the exmaple was the beaches of Normandy after D-Day.) I have > one of those at the MIT Media Lab (to Jean, naturally) -- so much > computing power and invention in one place.... (There's probably an > infernal equivalent to Vapula at the NSA.) > > The notion of spontaneous Tether formation implies that there ought to > be a *lot* of scrambling as one side locates and defends the > newly-formed Tether, and the other side tries to break it up before it > becomes defensible.... [Non-canon opinions follow] Good point. Still, I imagine it requires a certain amount of maintenance which either must be supplied by humans or by celestials. The enormous outpouring of essence from all the deaths at Normandy created the tether, but without support of some sort it would have faded back. Someone brought up the idea of a Mall being a tether for the Archangel of Trade. Sounds good to me! I that case, the initial setup was paid for by Marc, and the thousands of supports arrive every day. ;) For such an 'open' tether, though, you pay the price that lots and lots of people/things could sneak in. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:01:03 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements On Mar 5, 11:14am, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band attunements > At 10:52 AM -0500 3/5/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > >> I don't think that anyone has answered the original question, which was > >> whether one could buy an attunement that was of one's OWN choir or band, > >> but NOT of your supperior. > > > > It doesn't say you can, so you can't. fnord. If any > >disagrees with this, come armed with a page number or a missive > >by Derek or Moriah. ;) > > Except that Servitors of Eli (and Lilim) can get (though it's not > automatic) attunements from their current Superiors -- I think we > treated it as "an attunement from your Servitor's selection" cost, > with an explanation for why they have it. (This cost, BTW, jibes > with Ana, Malakim of Eli serving Gabriel -- I added up her totals, > and if she paid that cost for Malakim of Fire, then she comes out > okay (except for her special rite, that is).) Exactly correct. These are special cases that are treated as such in their respective descriptions. The general rule is that you cannot do it, though. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:39:40 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > All sorts of adventures can be based around something > like this. For example, assume that the Liberty Bell was the > focus around which a divine tether was formed in America, but > the forces of hell, through extreme measures, managed to crack > it, destroying the tether for good. Hmm, this presents a thought -- The Liberty Bell was really a *demonic* tether, in service to Lilith. After all, a fair number of those early patriots were rather selfishly so, so it could be argued that way. -- fish. | Fish Flowers ><> | | (Malakite of Power Gaming.) (I don't exist.) (Fnord.) | | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu eidolon@io.com | | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | ------------------------------ Date: 05 Mar 97 13:51:15 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Choir/Band attunements > I don't think that anyone has answered the original question, which was >whether one could buy an attunement that was of one's OWN choir or band, >but NOT of your superior. You can't. At least, beginning Servitors are not supposed to have it. Of course, GMs are free to overrule this, especially if you are creating experienced Servitors who've been around the block a few times. But the GM shouldn't forget the political connections of Superiors -- a Servitor of Michael better have a very, very, very, very, very good reason how he got an Attunement of Dominic with Michael's approval (or lack of knowledge). Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:15:50 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Hey, Dominic's no fool. A former demon is an excellent tool > against the other demons. The fervor of the newly converted is > almost always higher than those who never switched and the new angel > has literally noplace left to go. I'm not saying he wouldn't be interested in redeeming a demon. I'm saying that tricking a demon into accepting redemption and the bringing him up to Heaven just to burn in the light of God like a vampire in the sun is NOT a Dominic kind of thing to do. If he wanted a demon fried, instead of going through all the trouble to get a demon into Heaven, he'd just send his Malakim SWAT team after him, or just turn him over to Azzie. On the topic of Dominic: I showed a gaming buddy of mine the pic of Dominic in the book. His reaction was "Oh, it's a Shadow." My reaction was "Um, no." |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:20:18 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Riders and Hosts On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > You are _always_ assumed to be able to pick yourself up, > even with Strength 0. You might not be very spry at that low > a Strength, but you can still move! We might interpret your Strength score as you muscle power /beyond/ the bare minimum it takes to move your body. I'd call Str. 1 as able to move fine, but pathetic lifting and carrying capacity. And a Str. 0 would be bed ridden. You can crawl with effort, but that's about it. |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:28:26 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Talisman Costs On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > Um, could you quote me the page ref for this rule about the check digit? > > Automatic Success, p.39 Thank you muchly. I like the rule. > [Bound ideas snipped] > > Hey, neat ideas! Although if I were the superior of > either of them, I'd get them out of those damn items and > put them to work. Of course, the angel might be an Outcast > and has no superior to save his bacon and this is his way > of trying to get back in good with the Power That Be. That's part of what I was thinking. That, or someone decided that a bound celestial could fill a role in the War that couldn't be done another way; maybe the volunteered. Alternatively, they could be Imps or Relievers, either bound to the artifact from their 'birth', assigned to them, or volunteered for it, and the more souls the save/corrupt, the more favor they earn with their superior, the more Forces they're granted, and the closer they come to becoming a true angel or demon. Perhaps the Imp makes a deal for 1 Force of is choosing per x number of souls he leads to their Fate. (I can't really see a Reliever entering into such a rigidly defined contract; I think it would be more of 'Ya do good, ya get Forces'.) |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:37:54 -0500 From: Daiv Subject: Re: Number of skills (Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers) >At 8:44 AM -0500 3/5/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: {snip} >> Six is the max. Not four, not five, and seven is right out! >>(Okay, okay so I'm misquoting LoB... sue me.) ;) Ahem. Your not only misquoting, you are misattributing. the movie was, in fact, "holy Grail" (the holy hand grenade of antioch scene). So there. :=) So,how about anarcangel/denon princewhoseword is"secret"; the oly onewhoknowswhatsreallygoing on... - -daiv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:06:03 -0600 (CST) From: Corey Subject: IN> gaming group okay, Im about to start up my first IN game with a Seraph of Dominic and an Elohim of Michael, any suggestions? Come on you stranger You legend You martyr And shine "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" -Pink Floyd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:11:10 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Secrets (Re: Number of skills) At 11:37 AM -0500 3/5/97, Daiv wrote: >>At 8:44 AM -0500 3/5/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >{snip} >>> Six is the max. Not four, not five, and seven is right out! >>>(Okay, okay so I'm misquoting LoB... sue me.) ;) > >Ahem. Your not only misquoting, you are misattributing. the movie was, in >fact, "holy Grail" (the holy hand grenade of antioch scene). So there. :=) > >So,how about anarcangel/denon princewhoseword is"secret"; the oly >onewhoknowswhatsreallygoing on... Well, Karakash suggested that this might be the ArchDean of IOU's Word... (Various conversion notions can be found on my web-pages... I'm still working on some, of course, so it's still subject to change.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:33:26 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> gaming group At 2:06 PM -0600 3/5/97, Corey wrote: >okay, Im about to start up my first IN game with a Seraph of Dominic and >an Elohim of Michael, any suggestions? Add fuel -- a Mercurian of Novalis! (Either a peace-maker, or gets toasted ASAP.) And come up with a good excuse for them to be hanging around together. (Maybe they actually *like* each other?) You are fortunate -- the Seraph is more likely to be "looking over everyone's shoulders and ferrting out dissonance," and Michael's servitor is an Elohite, and Elohim are generally calm, cool, and Vulcans. He can probably work with the Seraph without doing more than occasionally, blandly, suggesting that perhaps the Seraph has a more narrow view on circumstances than is optimal. And make sure the players won't take all this personally.... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:59:41 -0800 (PST) From: Anders Swenson Subject: Malikim and weapons was: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > calls, NOT canon!) you can have broad groupings. For example you can > break down the list into the longer, swingy things (like a shortsword > or club), the shorter stabby things (daggers, icepicks, etc), > I hate to come across as overly nit-picky esp in my first post, but... Well a short sword is _not_ a 'swingy' thing it is in fact a thrusting wpn. In fact the roman's would take and blunt the edges of the Gladiases(or however) belonging to (much) youger solders if they insisted on swinging with them. in general it is much easier to thrust with a short sword (you get more range and punchure wounds are _nasty_). I'll get off the soap box now. I think that I would ues the Fighting skill for those malikim of Eli, almost anything else is just too nit-picky (I know I'm not the one to saw that, but that bothered me...) - -Tom Swenson "Don't... squeese ... the Mango" -Spike the Clown ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:50:33 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> What _was_ that book? On Mar 5, 10:28am, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> What _was_ that book? > At 9:36 PM -0500 3/4/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > Holly Lisle had a book about about angels and devil > >and the damnation and redemption of the same. Anyone remember > >the name of the book? It had an In Nomine-esque feel to > >it without the grandeur that IN tries to capture. > > _Sympathy for the Devil_ and a sequal, _The Devil and [forgot the > name]_ -- should be findable at a bookstore or orderable at Powells > or something ( http://www.powells.portland.or.us/ , a very nice online > bookstore). Thanks! SftD is a cool redemption story and the way the demons treat each other are good for campaign ideas. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 16:41:54 -0500 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN> A Few Things I Thought Sounded Neat I've been working on an game of IN ever since I got the book although have been having some trouble (see my first post). I think I've got a pretty good idea although it needs fleshing out. However here are some things I think you should all appreciate. First Thought- An Artifact (I was thinking of a sword) that allows the user to do one of three things. By spending a point of Essence it can locate anyone in the corporeal realm (including Angels and Demons) it has touched. (i.e. hitting someone with it can prove useful)By Spending 2 points of Essence it can tell you about a specific individual's history (of course they have to have a history). This artifact can do damage in any realm (i.e. it can do Corporeal, Ethereal or Celestial damage) however it costs the amount of damage in essence to do Ethereal or Celestial Damage if in the corporeal realm. Second Thought- I don't know if anyone knows about this but I think this is an interesting thought. I believe there is an Angel of Vengence in the Jewish theology known as Azrael. There is a comic book by DC of the same name which is where the Comic books creator, Dennis O'Neal came up with the character. I don't know about you but the image that Dennis O'Neal paints (Avenger armed with flaming swords) is pretty neat. I'm kinda reminded of a quote from the bible that was used alot in the movie "Pulp Fiction"..can't remember it right now but maybe I'll remember later. Anyways maybe I'll work on "Azrael" and post him/her when I'm done. Hatcher Rhanyr "The Intergalactic Sage" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:23:43 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > Someone brought up the idea of a Mall being a tether > for the Archangel of Trade. Sounds good to me! I that case, > the initial setup was paid for by Marc, and the thousands of > supports arrive every day. ;) For such an 'open' tether, > though, you pay the price that lots and lots of people/things > could sneak in. This was me. The mall in question is West Edmonton Mall (for those of you who haven't seen this monstrosity, it contains an amusement park, hotel, water-slides, zoo, miniature golf courses, submarine rides, dolphins, sharks, and more damned clothing stores than you can shake a credit card at). I also like the fact that the Gremsian brothers (the fanatical orthodox Jewish owners of the mall) are so wrapped up in their faith. Suggests that they are soldiers, no? Anyway, I think I'll have to have some servants of Media get involved here... I mean, what's retail shopping without media hype... isn't tourism linked to false images of pleasure... I'm not so sure if The Mall is such a divine tether, or perhaps it could be swayed through long-term Diabolical influence. If you've ever been to Boxing Day sales (do you even have Boxing day down in the states...?) at W.E.M., then you truly know the meaning of HELL!!!!! Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Did you hear the one about the Buddhist Monk who Walked up to the hot-dog vendor and said ... "Make me One with everything!" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #55 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.