From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Mar 7 09:46:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28657; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:46:00 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA04198 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:48:50 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:48:50 -0600 Message-Id: <199703071548.JAA04198@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #58 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, March 7 1997 Volume 01 : Number 058 In this digest: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers RE: IN> Tether locations Re: IN> Tether locations IN> Number of celestials? Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? Re: IN> Song Questions [none] IN> Patience Re: IN> Patience Re: IN> Azrael, Angel of Vengence [Kinda Long] Re: IN> Song Questions [none] Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? Re: IN> Song Questions Re: IN> Patience (long!) Re: IN> Patience (long!) IN> Elerial ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:46:39 -0500 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > Swear allegiance to the flag > what ever flag they offer > -Mike and the Mechanics > "SIlent Running" > >On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, Bodhi wrote: > >> This was me. The mall in question is West Edmonton Mall (for those >> of you who haven't seen this monstrosity, it contains an amusement >> park, hotel, water-slides, zoo, miniature golf courses, submarine >> rides, dolphins, sharks, and more damned clothing stores than you >> can shake a credit card at). I also like the fact that the Gremsian >> brothers (the fanatical orthodox Jewish owners of the mall) are so >> wrapped up in their faith. Suggests that they are soldiers, no? >> >> Anyway, I think I'll have to have some servants of Media get involved >> here... I mean, what's retail shopping without media hype... isn't >> tourism linked to false images of pleasure... I'm not so sure if The >> Mall is such a divine tether, or perhaps it could be swayed through >> long-term Diabolical influence. If you've ever been to Boxing Day >> sales (do you even have Boxing day down in the states...?) at W.E.M., >> then you truly know the meaning of HELL!!!!! >> >> Walk in Beauty, >> >> Rob Wolff / Bodhi >> rob@v-wave.com >> >> Did you hear the one about the Buddhist Monk who >> Walked up to the hot-dog vendor and said ... >> "Make me One with everything!" >> >> >> > okay, well no we dont have Boxing Day in the states, but Ive been >to day after christmas day sales, and well, Hell is putting it mildly. I >really like the idea of a mall as a tether of Marc, and was wondering if >anyone else had ideas about tether locations > >.- right idea, wrong date. Trust someone who worked retail far too many years. the day after thanksgiving, Known far and wide as Black Friday, is the most horrible day of the year to be a retail sales person. Especially in a mall. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:48:55 -0500 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > Swear allegiance to the flag > what ever flag they offer > -Mike and the Mechanics > "SIlent Running" > >On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, Bodhi wrote: > >> This was me. The mall in question is West Edmonton Mall (for those >> of you who haven't seen this monstrosity, it contains an amusement >> park, hotel, water-slides, zoo, miniature golf courses, submarine >> rides, dolphins, sharks, and more damned clothing stores than you >> can shake a credit card at). I also like the fact that the Gremsian >> brothers (the fanatical orthodox Jewish owners of the mall) are so >> wrapped up in their faith. Suggests that they are soldiers, no? >> >> Anyway, I think I'll have to have some servants of Media get involved >> here... I mean, what's retail shopping without media hype... isn't >> tourism linked to false images of pleasure... I'm not so sure if The >> Mall is such a divine tether, or perhaps it could be swayed through >> long-term Diabolical influence. If you've ever been to Boxing Day >> sales (do you even have Boxing day down in the states...?) at W.E.M., >> then you truly know the meaning of HELL!!!!! >> >> Walk in Beauty, >> >> Rob Wolff / Bodhi >> rob@v-wave.com >> >> Did you hear the one about the Buddhist Monk who >> Walked up to the hot-dog vendor and said ... >> "Make me One with everything!" >> >> >> > okay, well no we dont have Boxing Day in the states, but Ive been >to day after christmas day sales, and well, Hell is putting it mildly. I >really like the idea of a mall as a tether of Marc, and was wondering if >anyone else had ideas about tether locations > >.- right idea, wrong day. the day immediately after thanksgiving, known far and wide as Black friday, is the biggest sales day of the year. and therefore, the absolute worst time to be in retail sales. - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:57:41 -0800 From: Nicholas Jost Subject: RE: IN> Tether locations - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2A36.5CBB2360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree tethers should be about one per side for every 1 million people = or so. Anything less and you'ld have open warfare all the time (which = is what happens when you put opposing points of supply right next to = each other.) - ---------- From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC[SMTP:johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 1997 12:16 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Tether locations > My current speculation is that the number of tethers in an area ought = to > be roughly proportional to the population, with exceptions for notable > places that concentrate people with a particular Word-relationship. = I'm > thinking roughly one tether of each direction per 100,000 population. > Thus, most reasonable-sized cities will have at least one each, = angelic > and demonic, and huge cities like New York may have a hundred or so, > including some to lesser Archangels that aren't yet described as major > figures. Did you say a HUNDRED tethers?! IMO, even ONE tether is something to write home about and more than a dozen, even for the largest, most important cities would be pushing it hard. - --=20 ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2A36.5CBB2360 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IisVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20AU01UUABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5p by5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAZAAAAaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMu aW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABsAAAAnaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMu aW8uY29tJwAAAgELMAEAAAAeAAAAU01UUDpJTl9OT01JTkUtTEBMSVNUUy5JTy5DT00AAAADAAA5 AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA7A7AQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWls Lk5vdGUAMQgBBIABABkAAABSRTogSU4+IFRldGhlciBsb2NhdGlvbnMAPggBBYADAA4AAADNBwMA BgANADkAKQAEAFABASCAAwAOAAAAzQcDAAYADQA4ABEABAA3AQEJgAEAIQAAADQzODExQ0Y0Nzc5 NUQwMTE4NTNCMDBBMDI0Q0YxNjUyAOAGAQOQBgDIBgAAEgAAAAsAIwABAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkA AQAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AGABoWl5KrwBHgBwAAEAAAAZAAAAUkU6IElOPiBUZXRoZXIgbG9jYXRp b25zAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8KnlpofQcgUSVdxHQhTsAoCTPFlIAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNN VFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAVAAAAbmlja2pAb2xzdGFmZmluZy5jb20AAAAAAwAGEKif8kkDAAcQMgQA AB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAElBR1JFRVRFVEhFUlNTSE9VTERCRUFCT1VUT05FUEVSU0lERUZPUkVWRVJZ MU1JTExJT05QRU9QTEVPUlNPQU5ZVEhJTkdMRVNTQU5EWU9VTERIQVZFT1BFTldBUkZBUkVBTEwA AAAAAgEJEAEAAABGBQAAQgUAAEEJAABMWkZ1snvNd/8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNl dDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzNwLkBxMCgzQERhMzMSB3CFUHsgKAfQqACM8J2Tvx GA8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUYUL8mMAQCBJIGEJwjIgE9B0aASQBCBzaOEIYGxkIGId UAGgCGB3BUACIB1QcBaxAJANsCCTAhAFwGV2BJB5IBZAsm0DEGxpAiAfIW8LUEMdUAWxc28uICHQ QcxueR2QC4BnICFABBHrAHAeQHkIYCceMRGAIBDXHuAfMAOgdwrAZgrAHnEfIKAdYB2gHWAHcSAo d/siQBFwIAQAJCARgAVAEYD+cCPxJgIkASMhHyAewiaQXm8AkCJhJ+ALgHQEIG9qZh3gdSaQbCBA BRBnlmgFQB8AeAVAdG8f8MsA0CXQbx2SLikKhQqLESCwMTgwAtFpLTE8NDQN8AzQLOMLWTE21wqg A2AT0GMFQC0vBwqH1y27DDAuhkYDYTowDi6GoQyCIEpvaAOgSwrAGGFrYR3wLvAgTHUGYwnwBUBB U0NDW0BTTVRQOmoz0WuCQDRgY2MwMS42MpYuCkA04i4FoG1dL6+fML0GYAIwMe8y+1RoCHDgc2Rh eSwF0ArAJcGEMDY8QDE5OTcgUMQyOi5QIFBNN68wvZxUbznvMvsLgF9uA3BhC4BlLWxAILATwHMe LiDAN1I93zi+dWJqJy7BP/8y+1JlRcBJTs4+O7AdgyKAb2MmQCDB5nMrDywTMzYthxxFLoZ1SABN IEBjCHAYEDUBc/8fMExwC2BI0iXiHZAmQSTy/G51BtAWsSjBHXYLgCLR6x0AGBBhHuB1KYIqEAqF /0gAHmEDYFBRKTEugSfgACD/IMEHQCoCJPIn4CeATUQ8QPcD8B2QH/B4NOAFMEjiH7P/QgABkSFA UMcLUTTgTcUFoP5uNOI0MBPQIPZUA1AgCrGXJTBNIgXAVwWwZC0YEM9NRB3wBSAhwUknQ0ZIAP0i MmsiUlGGHvIddCiyKkN8ZGkYEC7QIMQFwBswMGosLIAwUzkuUMc7wXP/PEAEYBPAKVAqQCGgUpBV gfotAJB6CYBMYFQQCJAmAf8gkSOEJkEhQDRgHtQqQjxA/xsBWbAlsFDHIuINsARgAwB+Y2QSI3FQ UB1QYfUgsGvrHVAHwlkFsGsgcDwgYqVvZjEi8BgRIWQsUMcLgGP/CkBdkCJhIaAlUSoRIpIWsZ8H EBFxZEJNxSRxbicFQP55EcBlYQTyHmAeQDRgZ9HtNdByUMcssGcIcAeQX5bbCoYzgkQfgCczc2fx UCCASFVORFJFRB1m5D8hWnFNTzxAIAEDoPhPTkVclgQACoVqoiI0/SoRdwUQV5EeACVRHpQi4t8E YCSBTeFPoV2Ab2GwU9H/cwMfwQqFJPJZEWRQE8Bgdf8HcFIyAHBW4WIFHhYngFoh/yJhVBAjgQsg b20KhS8AK2a8IF9+n3+vgL4KhS8h0aeCb4N/hGxcXAqFfDPPXzTUSCARcEIAF6BnYiIoCx/BB4By KTFBVCZUTimF8IWWhGkoOT0AKYIzLHAtNDYyOYRvs4wZiVgiQR+waKFhB4D/AjBSoRNQagEFICFC XSFXAf1CEWNPcU3JiUl2sydCAZD+eHSIPEB40yKiJ0JkUB7R7yjQVBAhwolJSQOgIjEEIO8FoGig V2AgQHcdUZIyNNCfVnFt8WCiKMEksS4ijL3vhXCAv5o/m08vfJ9JX0prLxVhS2oKhRcxAKEAAAAD ABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMODLDzh5KrwBQAAIMODLDzh5KrwBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAA AADdEw== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2A36.5CBB2360-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:34:46 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Tether locations On Mar 6, 1:57pm, Nicholas Jost wrote: > Subject: RE: IN> Tether locations > > [ text/plain > Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : > > I agree tethers should be about one per side for every 1 million people or so. Anything less and you'ld have open warfare all the time (which is what happens when you put opposing points of supply right next to each other.) Not just that, but tethers don't have to form around population centers. Some are specifically removed from those place with a lot of people. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 23:42:06 GMT From: Molt Subject: IN> Number of celestials? Just wondering, with people coming up with this 1 tether for 1 million people thing, what do people see as the number of active celestials on the Earth? And the number of Soldiers, undead etc? Molt. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:33:34 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > > right idea, wrong date. Trust someone who worked retail far too many years. > the day after thanksgiving, Known far and wide as Black Friday, is the > most horrible day of the year to be a retail sales person. Especially in a > mall. Yup. Almost everyone has that day off (except for retail and restraunts... surprise!), the next big holidy is Xmas and nobody wants to cook. Can you tell I worked my way through college as a food server? ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:49:27 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? At 2:01 PM -0500 3/6/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Mar 6, 11:35am, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Subject: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? >> Can celestials produce offspring in any way? > Funny you should mention this. I just finished an >article titled, "Mommy, Where Do Angels Come From?" and >sent it on to the upper heavens for review/approval. I can >answer your questions, but they are very much My Opinions >Only. Well, that's not entirely true since Derek looked >at some of it and didn't say it was flat out _wrong_, but >then again he didn't say it was all _correct_ either! ;) >> #1: can a pair (or more) of them provide enough energy to create another >> celestial, much as an Archangel creates servitors (p. 108, just below >> th Universal Invocation Modifiers box)? >#1) Yes. The process is a bit different and much less >deterministic and sure. One presumes that all participants are deliberately contributing Essence/energy/memes/whatever? So that it might be hard to have an "illigetimate" kid... >> #2: Can celestial (in vessels) interbreed with humans? >#2) Yes. 'Kay. Is it an act of deliberate will on the celestial's part, or could it "just happen"? Would it be different depending on which gender the vessel was in? >> #3: Can celestials (in vessels) interbreed with animals? >#3) No. The essential element, the soul, is missing from >the mix. > >Three elements are required for Corporeal breeding: >1- Two souls, one per partner ;) >2- Essence expenditure (to provide the seed for the new soul) >3- Body compatibility and capability I don't know about *you*, but I've seen cats (and dogs) with more soul than some people... O:> >> #2a & 3a: Kyriotates and Shedim "possess" their vessels -- do >> said vessels have automatic birth control built in for the >> duration (due to the celestial "rider's" patterns disrupting >> the normal state of the body; they don't have to eat or drink >> for the duration either, I assume...), or not? Does it depend >> on whether the rider is angelic or demonic? >#2a/#3a) A Kyriotate or a Shedim in a host can breed the >same as another angel/demon in a regular vessel. Though a Shedite might think it was amusing to saddle a host with a "hellspawn" kid. :-p No wonder Lilim hate Shedim... ("Our bodies, our choices!") >> #4: I've read somewhere that Derek claims Lilith used to be human >> (though not in the same way Eve was human, *I* would assume); I've >> also read at least one thing (in hardcover, years ago *sob*) that >> there *were* some children of Lilith and Adam... Does this mean >> that Lilim, like the Grigori, could interbreed with humans if they >> chose, despite their nominal position "midway" in the ranking >> between celestial and human? >#4) If Lilith had children, they would follow the same >rules, presumably, as other celestials breeding. Not quite what I meant -- Lilim are the daughters of Lilith, created by Her. One presumes that if Lilith herself were meant to be cross-fertile with Adam, that the Daughters of Lilith (that we know of, not just cross-breed ones) could conceive/sire a child with a human, even if other angels couldn't (or had more trouble doing it). > More non-canon stuff follows... > >The offspring of a celestial and a human is either celestial >or human. There is no 'middle-ground', though humans with >celestial genes are much more likely to become sorcerers >or soldiers. No guarantee, though. Because of the Grigori, >celestial genes are pretty well spread through all branches >of humanity. (The population geneticists out there can >probably confirm this. Small initial population, the traits >are generally beneficial ones.) That sounds like a "middle ground" to me, actually. There's no "half-elf" theme, but the human result *is* something at least slightly different from the rest of humanity. One might speculate that depending on Choir/Band, the result might share "memes" from the celestial parent -- Seraph-kin tend to be tallish (providing the Seraph was in a standard vessel) and don't like the Lying skill (and are handy with Detect Lies), while Impudite-spawn are really good at mooching off of other people and making them like it. I'm not sure you *could* get a celestial offsring from a human-celestial joining... Maybe from a "half-breed"-celestial mix, though. Gotta think on this... BTW, I tried to reply to you in Email on a different topic, and it got bounced -- ascc.lucent.com couldn't be found... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:52:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions At 1:47 PM -0500 3/6/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Mar 6, 11:43am, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Subject: IN> Song Questions >> [#1: I would like to register my complaint that the rules for songs >> are scattered between pp. 46-48 and pp. 78-85; when the second edition >> comes, the rules for singing songs (by bubblehead) and the descriptions >> of the songs themselves (next to shadow-thingy) should at least have >> in-text *references* to where the other "halves" can be found!!!] > > There is no second edition currently planned. Nor, >at this time, does there seem to be a need. :-pbpbpbtt. Fine, fine, I'll see if I can pick up another copy and use an exactoknife on it... >> #2: The description of Singing skill indicates that it can help >> in casting certain Ethereal songs -- none of which made the final >> cut into the book, apparently. :-( > > I haven't checked in that detail, but more Songs are >definitely in the works! Just wanted to make sure it was an orphen ref, not an obsolete one. >> #3: Numinous Corpus. Though these are all Corporeal, they are also >> all NCorpus songs; if you know more than one, could you get a bonus >> to the check digit, the same as if you knew all the Songs of Healing? > > Nope. Well, pbpbptt! Darn. I was hoping for something better than a 4. >> #4: Is there no way to teach a Song you know to another celestial, >> or vice versa? Seems kinda weird, unless you learn them by having >> a Superior download the file into your head... > > Songs function more like items or powers than skills. Perhaps >it would be better to think of them as 'powers' instead. Your >superior grants you a new power as a reward for a job well done. Takes a session of infodump that mere words (even celestial ones) cannot express, eh? And/or an initial "tuning" to those melodies in the Symphony. That works. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:51:32 -0600 From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) Subject: [none] A few Questions concerning In Nomine: Is Archangel Khalid Archangel Laurance? He was mentioned in a few Pyramid articles, but not in the main book. If an angel or demon has a level 2 Distinction, does he also get the level 1? Also does a demon or angel with a level 3 Distinction get both level 1 and 2? I had more but I can't think of them at the moment :( Thanks for any (correct :P ) answers you can provide. Ryan Beall aka: Grim88 rbeall@fdl.fdldotnet.com grim88@hotmail.com grim@somethingorother.com http://members.tripod.com/~Grim88/index.html "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall through an open sewer and die." - Mel Brooks "The world is a joke, and humanity is the punchline." - Kobal, Demon Prince of Dark Humor ------------------------------ Date: 06 Mar 97 21:10:41 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Patience Some people, and I'm not saying it's the people on the list, have been taking advantage of the accessibility of Steve Jackson and employees to bother them with trivial emails whining about when this or that will be due. I don't know how to put this politely, but, if it's you, knock it off. ;) What's has been advertised with a release date is still on schedule, as far as I know, and I know a lot. What's not been advertised with a release date (the GURPS conversion, e.g.) purposely doesn't have a release date because we don't know, and thus, are not promising; and answering hundreds of private email whines doesn't help us get it out faster. (And you're gonna get it for free, so patience, please.) When Illuminati: New World Order came out, it was decided that no SJ Games employee or NetRep would ever answer any private email about the game. This was to prevent the deluge of similar questions in private emails. Now, I don't want to get strict about it, but, unless you have a Good Reason to send an employee or NetRep a private email about IN NOMINE, please don't. Please voice complaints and whines in public. We don't mind. We here on the list (John Karakash and myself) will dutifully represent your voices to Steve. Of course, if you need to complain about us, well, then, you'll have to go to Steve. ;> Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:05:15 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Patience On 6 Mar 1997, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > > Some people, and I'm not saying it's the people on the list, have been > taking advantage of the accessibility of Steve Jackson and employees to > bother them with trivial emails whining about when this or that will be due. > I don't know how to put this politely, but, if it's you, knock it off. ;) > It might also be worth mentioning that SJG have a net-site at io.com where you can find out what is coming when without bothering a human being. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:07:36 -0600 (CST) From: Thany Subject: Re: IN> Azrael, Angel of Vengence [Kinda Long] On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > Hatcher Rhanyr wrote: > > Azrael > > The Angel of Vengence > > Elohim Friend of the Divine Spark > I'd have made him a Malakite, but that's just me. And I would have made him an Angel of Laurence, but it's his/her character. > > Corporeal Forces - 6 Str 10 Agi 14 > > Ethereal Forces - 5 Int 12 Pre 8 > > Celestial Forces - 5 Wil 10 Per 10 > I think these stats are _way_ too high. For a start, you can't have > Agility 14 - 12 is the max for Stats. I'll grant you that... > Beyond that, sure, he's a big-arse angel, but the stats are terrifying! > I'd be inclined to knock all the Forces down by a level. He's probably been around for a damned (whoops! Pun?) long time, you know. Knocking the Forces down a level would make him hardly worth bothering with. This isn't a starting character, y'know. - -- "Do you believe in God?" "Well, SOMEONE is out to get me." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:22:58 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions > > There is no second edition currently planned. Nor, > >at this time, does there seem to be a need. > > :-pbpbpbtt. Fine, fine, I'll see if I can pick up another copy > and use an exactoknife on it... Now, who let the Calabite in here! Geesh, I thought we had sprayed for them! ;) > > I haven't checked in that detail, but more Songs are > >definitely in the works! > > Just wanted to make sure it was an orphen ref, not an obsolete one. If I have to, I'll MAKE a spell just to use that reference... - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:39:42 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: [none] On Mar 6, 9:51pm, Grim88 wrote: > Subject: > A few Questions concerning In Nomine: > > Is Archangel Khalid Archangel Laurance? He was mentioned in a few Pyramid > articles, but not in the main book. Nope. Khalid is coming and will be detailed in a forthcoming supplement (tentatively titled, _On Wings of Angels_ right now). > If an angel or demon has a level 2 Distinction, does he also get the level > 1? Also does a demon or angel with a level 3 Distinction get both level 1 and 2? Yes, but keep in mind that you MUST get the lower level distinctions to get the higher ones, so the point is moot. If you want to save room on a character sheet, though, you only have to list the highest one! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:37:36 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? > Funny you should mention this. I just finished an >article titled, "Mommy, Where Do Angels Come From?" and >sent it on to the upper heavens for review/approval. I can >answer your questions, but they are very much My Opinions >Only. Well, that's not entirely true since Derek looked >at some of it and didn't say it was flat out _wrong_, but >then again he didn't say it was all _correct_ either! ;) > >> #1: can a pair (or more) of them provide enough energy to create another > >> celestial, much as an Archangel creates servitors (p. 108, just below > >> th Universal Invocation Modifiers box)? > > >#1) Yes. The process is a bit different and much less > >deterministic and sure. > > One presumes that all participants are deliberately contributing > Essence/energy/memes/whatever? So that it might be hard to have > an "illigetimate" kid... Absolutely. Celestials spend essence on purpose. It's only when mating with humans that 'accidental' use can occur (and, in my proposal, Followers of Eli...) ;) > 'Kay. Is it an act of deliberate will on the celestial's part, > or could it "just happen"? Would it be different depending on > which gender the vessel was in? It has to be a deliberate act of the celestial (with the caveat above). Gender is irrelevant although that _will_ change some of the details of the actual gestation/birth. (Angels don't get morning-sick, for example.) > > >> #3: Can celestials (in vessels) interbreed with animals? > > >#3) No. The essential element, the soul, is missing from > >the mix. > > > >Three elements are required for Corporeal breeding: > >1- Two souls, one per partner ;) > >2- Essence expenditure (to provide the seed for the new soul) > >3- Body compatibility and capability > > I don't know about *you*, but I've seen cats (and dogs) with > more soul than some people... O:> Kyriotates. Must be Kyriotates. Although I have seen a cat with what must be a case of permanent Shedite possession! > >#2a/#3a) A Kyriotate or a Shedim in a host can breed the > >same as another angel/demon in a regular vessel. > > Though a Shedite might think it was amusing to saddle a host > with a "hellspawn" kid. :-p No wonder Lilim hate Shedim... > ("Our bodies, our choices!") Oooooh, adventure idea, adventure idea! > >#4) If Lilith had children, they would follow the same > >rules, presumably, as other celestials breeding. > > Not quite what I meant -- Lilim are the daughters of Lilith, created > by Her. One presumes that if Lilith herself were meant to be > cross-fertile with Adam, that the Daughters of Lilith (that we know > of, not just cross-breed ones) could conceive/sire a child with a > human, even if other angels couldn't (or had more trouble doing it). Ahhhhh, I see. That's an interesting point and I must meditate on it properly. Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... > That sounds like a "middle ground" to me, actually. There's no > "half-elf" theme, but the human result *is* something at least > slightly different from the rest of humanity. One might speculate > that depending on Choir/Band, the result might share "memes" from > the celestial parent -- Seraph-kin tend to be tallish (providing > the Seraph was in a standard vessel) and don't like the Lying > skill (and are handy with Detect Lies), while Impudite-spawn are > really good at mooching off of other people and making them like it. The middle ground I was referring to was the non-genetic side of things. It is canon that you either have a human soul or a angelic soul and there is no way to switch from one to the other. Angels have certain powers and restrictions that make them unique from humans and vice-versa (all are based on that essential soul-difference). While a human might be a result of 'better breeding', and therefore be more inclined to get that sixth force, they are hardly divine/demonic. > BTW, I tried to reply to you in Email on a different topic, and > it got bounced -- ascc.lucent.com couldn't be found... *(sigh)* I believe in one telling of the garden of eden, it was surround by a huge wall of fire after they kicked Adam and Eve out? Our firewall around our computer at work functions in much the same fashion. I don't suppose your post was filled with impure thoughts, was it? ;) johnk@lucent.com _almost_ always works. johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com works nearly as often. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 07:47:16 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > Just wanted to make sure it was an orphen ref, not an obsolete one. > > If I have to, I'll MAKE a spell just to use that > reference... 'Spell'? I think you've got the wrong mailing list... -- fish. | Fish Flowers ><> | | (Malakite of Power Gaming.) (I don't exist.) (Fnord.) | | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu eidolon@io.com | | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:39:24 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Patience (long!) On Mar 6, 9:10pm, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > Subject: IN> Patience > Some people, and I'm not saying it's the people on the list, have been > taking advantage of the accessibility of Steve Jackson and employees to > bother them with trivial emails whining about when this or that will be due. > I don't know how to put this politely, but, if it's you, knock it off. ;) > > What's has been advertised with a release date is still on schedule, as > far as I know, and I know a lot. What's not been advertised with a release > date (the GURPS conversion, e.g.) purposely doesn't have a release date > because we don't know, and thus, are not promising; and answering hundreds > of private email whines doesn't help us get it out faster. (And you're gonna > get it for free, so patience, please.) > > When Illuminati: New World Order came out, it was decided that no SJ Games > employee or NetRep would ever answer any private email about the game. This > was to prevent the deluge of similar questions in private emails. Now, I > don't want to get strict about it, but, unless you have a Good Reason to send > an employee or NetRep a private email about IN NOMINE, please don't. > > Please voice complaints and whines in public. We don't mind. We here on > the list (John Karakash and myself) will dutifully represent your voices to > Steve. Of course, if you need to complain about us, well, then, you'll have > to go to Steve. ;> Elerial, the Archangel whose name means Patience approves of the willingness of all who bide their time in support of In Nomine. Elerial, while not as powerful as some, and sometimes mocked as being too slow or too stodgy, is widely respected. Both David and Marc seek her council regularly and Yves has long been a friend. She dislikes Eli because of the out-of- control way Creation has been handled and Janus since his word causes his servitors to act before the right time. Elerial's vessels are either male or female, but have tended to be females with calm blue eyes and long brown hair. She is an Elohim, bringing all the balance and dispassion to her schedules as the other Elohim give to their emotional decision. She remains neutral in most of the Archangel councils, but the common joke is that she is just biding her time. Most do not realize how true that is, and those that do know, don't make that joke. Dissonance: An angel of Elerial generates dissonance whenever they rush a project, or fail to take the proper time on any task. This also includes advising someone to go quickly or hurriedly when more time should be taken! Note when the _goal_ is speed, this it is not dissonant to move quickly. Choir Attunements Seraphim: A seraph can precise estimate exactly how long the minimum time for any project is and its component parts. They can, without a resonance check, tell when anyone is lying to them about a schedule and exactly what is the truth (this includes printed schedules). Cherubim: When actively protecting an object of their attunement, these holy guardians can interpose themselves and take any damage intended for the attuned object. In addition they are unaffected by any aiming bonus leveled against them. Ofanim: Not many Ofanim serve Eleriel, but those that do gain an increased understanding of pacing as well as speed. In any contest with another that involves speed or motion they get their Celestial forces as a bonus to their check digit on a successful roll. Elohim: With a touch, they can give a mortal the ability to withstand travails of extreme emotion that would cause them to act rashly or without forethought for a number of days equal to the Elohim's Celestial Forces. Malakim: Whenever a Malakim of Elerial pauses for a round in combat, they either can make a Tactics roll, with a bonus equal to their Celestial Forces to gain new understanding of the situation OR they can add their Celestial Forces to their aiming bonus. Kyriotates: These Kyriotates gain the ability to wait in their hosts without controlling them. They gain no dissonance when their hosts are damaged unless they are actually in control at the time. While not in control they are nearly indetectable. Mercurians: Similar to the Seraph's ability to estimate a project's time, a Mercurian knows how best to manage the individual people on a project, which activities to delay til later and what hangups could be avoided with proper action. Any project with one of these Mercurians in charge will be completed about twice as quickly, with many fewer injuries than most and the people involved will be much happier. (Strange how the boss scheduled a holiday on the day all the girders would be late, eh?) Servitor Attunements Stance of Fortitude: Allows the attuned one to resist anything that would cause them to act before the time is right. When doing nothing but waiting for the proper moment to act they have +5 armor and +5 to resist any force brought against them. Where no resistance is usually possible, give the opposing force a -5 to their action. Counciling Patience: With the expenditure of 1 essence, they can convince anyone who can be reasoned with at all that they should delay any activity. The length of the delay is proportional to the length of the activity. Distinctions Vassal of Planning: Any activity they spend at least 1 hour less ten minutes for every level of Celestial Forces has all penalties halved. Friend of Delay: They can tell with a glance exactly what action must be taken to delay a foe the longest. Master of Preparation: All bonuses for extra time spent on an activity are doubled. Basic Rites Spend 12 hours in simple contemplation of an activity without actually taking any actions toward completing it (nor any other actions). Convince at least a dozen people to delay their plans with good reason. Stop or put off any catastrophe that is about to happen. Invocation Modifiers +1 Waiting at a stoplight +2 A large spider web +3 A 50-year Treasury bond +4 At least 10 people calmly waiting in line +5 A railroad crossing with a train of at least 100 cars +6 Waiting an hour in completely stopped rush hour traffic without a single horn being blown - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 09:40:17 -0600 From: Drew Johnson Subject: Re: IN> Patience (long!) On Fri, 07 Mar 1997 09:39:24 -0500 John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: [Elerial post] John- Have you been consorting with dreadlocked archangels? Seriously, is Elerial merely a part of the future canon of archangels from the Good Folks at SJGames, or did that just come from a blast of inspiration? I like the character concept rather a lot; only one thing was missing; what would the base invocation number be? I would say something along the lines of 4 or 5 (any angel servitor to Patience would probably have a pretty good, well-thought-out reason for calling her.) Bravo. - -----[O O O]---------- Drew Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:44:15 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: IN> Elerial On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Drew Johnson wrote: > I like the character concept rather a lot; only one thing was missing; > what would the base invocation number be? I would say something along > the lines of 4 or 5 (any angel servitor to Patience would probably have a > pretty good, well-thought-out reason for calling her.) I disagree. I'd think somewhere between 1 and 3... After all, if you don't succeed the first time, be patient and try again. ;) But I agree, I liked Elerial. Very much a traditional Archangel, which from my point of view is a Good Thing. (Yeah, I'm one of those ones who balked at an Angel of Weed or what-have-you. Call me a conservative, beat me, whip me, I still think angels are supposed to be the Good Guys (tm).) Back to the point at hand, though, if Elerial isn't Canon she is at least an interesting non-official addition. Maybe a Pyramid article about her inner machinations? -- fish. | Fish Flowers ><> | | (Malakite of Power Gaming.) (I don't exist.) (Fnord.) | | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu eidolon@io.com | | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #58 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.