From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Mar 10 17:36:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26625; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:54:35 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA08530 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:57:43 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:57:43 -0600 Message-Id: <199703102057.OAA08530@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #63 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, March 10 1997 Volume 01 : Number 063 In this digest: Re: IN> A Few Thoughts..... Re: IN> Newquist's (and Our) Labour of Love Re: IN> A Few Thoughts..... IN> List of Diabolicals Re: IN> Magcik RE: IN> New Archangel Suggestion Re: IN> Question? Un/Holy Water and its affects Re: IN> Song Questions Re: IN> Song Questions Re: IN> Yet Another Archangel Re: IN> A Few Questions IN> New Archangel Suggestions IN> Magick, Revision (Long) Re: IN> Riders and Hosts Re: IN> Newquist's (and Our) Labour of Love Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers Re: IN> IN vs. INS/MV Re: IN> Yet Another Archangel Re: IN> IN vs. INS/MV Re: IN> A Few Thoughts..... Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? IN> A Few Thoughts..... Re: IN> Elerial ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:34:30 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> A Few Thoughts..... >However, it isn't clear that the immortals fall into neat >angelic/diabolical categories. I'd be inclined to say that Celestial >offspring don't have their natures determined by their nonhuman parents. > >(it also fits that the immortals, being hybrids, would be sterile) Which begs the question: Why this strange urge to cut off the heads of one's fellow immortals? And what, in this context, is the Prize? -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:34:36 -0800 (PST) From: Anders Swenson Subject: Re: IN> Newquist's (and Our) Labour of Love On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Bodhi wrote: > I just had to say a big Thank You to Jason Newquist for his In Nomine > Collections page at > > http://www.nocturne.org/INC/ > YES this is a great list I have only ong question about the web page? what isa the addy on that IN MUSH? "My object all sublime/I will achive in time/ To let the punisment fit the crime/ The punishment fit the crime."-The Mikado ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:26:36 -0600 From: s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu (Brian) Subject: Re: IN> A Few Thoughts..... >Thought #1 >I recently read the post on magick and am reminded of one of my fav >comic books "The Books of Magic" original concept done by none other >than Neil Gaiman (Sandman fame). "Books" does have a bit of the feel >that Sandman does but not quite so "ethereal". In "Books" magic is rare >though there are some who've figured out how to use it. Most villains in >the setting are trying to exploit a young man named Tim Hunter, who is >the son of Titania (Faerie Queen) and a human mage. Neat huh!!!!! Yes, I have read the Books of Magic, and it is a major source of inspiration for my rules. By the way, just found out in Summonings that Titania isn't Tim's mother, nothing was said about his father. >Thought #2 >I've been thinking about the undead aspects of In Nomine and began to >think about how would conversions of White Wolf games work with In >Nomine. I particularly like the idea of Caine being the father of all >vampires. Mage might be interesting to take a look at if your planning >on incorporating "magick" into an In Nomine game. Also Changeling might >not be a bad if you are thinking about running a "Books of Magic" >Campaign. Yes, I was thinking of creating rules for Glamoury, or Ethereal magick, when I am finished with my current magick rules. And yes, I do look towards Mage as well, though I think that the magick presented in that system is to powerful for IN. Tidbit about Caine. I like the idea that he is the father of all kindred, but I also like the idea (I heard it once and it stuck) That Caine, though having a bloodlust which he passes on to others, can use none of the powers that his progeny learn. This is an aspect of his curse. He is no more powerful than the weakest 13th Generation vamp, but there is one catch. No one can hurt him, as per his curse, for "God shall revisite the spite sevenfold." >Thought #3 >I don't know how many appreciate the movies and show "Highlander" on >this list but here is an idea. There has been some mention of offspring >of celestials. I was thinking about Highlanderish characters in In >Nomine when it struck me, what if the "Immortals" were of celestial >heritage. They live forever if left well enough alone, but there are >those of diabolical heritage that discovered that when an Immortal kills >another one, their essence is transfered to the victor (in a spectacular >display). Likewise Immortals present a disturbance in the Symphony that >can easily be detected by other Immortals or Celestials. Whadya think?? Not bad, you should work out the rules... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:41:25 -0500 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN> List of Diabolicals Going through some stuff I remembered that in the AD&D First Ed. Monster Manual it had a list of Demons, devils, etc. Now while some of these may be "historically" unfounded, most I think are based in "reality". Abigor Adonides Adramelech Agares Alastor Alocer Amducias Amon Arioch Baalberit Baalphegor Baalzephan Bael Balen Barbas Barbatos Bathym Bel Bele Bensuzia Bethage Biffant Bifrons Bileth Bitru Buer Bune Caercrinolaas Chamo Cozbi Fecor Focalor Furcas Gaziel Glasya Goap Gorson Herobaal Herodias Hutijin Lilis Lilith Machalas Malphas Martinet Melchon Merodach Moloch Morax Naome Neabaz Nexroth Phongor Rimmon Tartoch Titivilus Zacbos Zagum Zapan Zepar Zimimar Abraxus Ahazu Ahrimanes Alrunes Anarazel Ansitif Ardat Areex Aseroth Asima Astaroth Azael Azazel Barbu Bayemon Becherd Baltazo Baphomet Cabiri Charun Dagon Demogorgon Eblis Erechkigal Fraz-Urb'luu Graz'zt Juiblex Kostchtchie Laraie Lolth Mastiphal Munkir Nekir Nergal Nocticula Obox-ob Orcus Pazuzu Socothbenoth Soneillon Verin Yeenoghu Zuggtmoy I hope this helps those who would like to research those of the diabolical nature. ************************************** * Hatcher Rhanyr * * "The Angel of Bright Shiney Teeth" * ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:20:41 -0600 From: s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu (Brian) Subject: Re: IN> Magcik >At 06:16 PM 3/9/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >>...I wrote earlier of my intentions to create some rules for Magick in the >>IN universe, well, here is what I have come up with so far. >> >>Magick may be used by any being with Essence, and the intelligence to >>invoke it. Normally, only those able to conciously spend their Essence >>would be able to use magick, but mundanes with powerful will may attempt to >>direct their spirit into it (d666 vs. Will + Essence, Check Die = ammount >>of Essence that may be spent.). >> >>Magick is neither divine nor infernal, yet it may be used to further either >>cause, and so intervention effects (111 or 666 on d666) will depend upon >>the user and the desired effect. > >Just a point here: some Archangels (Dominic seems the type) and Demon >Princes (Vapula?) probably won't like magicians. Just because it's not >Infernal or >Divine doesn't mean it's accepted. > >>Magick takes massive amounts of concentration to perform, yet when active, >>it meshes with the Symphony and changes its music to the desires of the >>performer. Magcik creates NO disturbance in the Symphony. It blends with >>it and shapes it, but it does not create new notes, as do Songs, thus it >>creates not noticable (to celestials or otherwise) change. >> >>This may seem powerful, but the price of Magick is dear, and any attempt to >>use it is difficult (d666 vs. Essence - Dissonance [not total capacity, >>remaining Essence after the cost of using the attempted magicks is spent], >>modified by various rites, foci, materials, so on and so forth, Check Die = >>potency of desired effect, or if failed, severity of failure.) > >I'd make a slight change: magick ITSELF does not disturb the Symphony. >The effects (i.e. summoning a demon, assuming Celestial form, possibly >even killing a mortal) are. Good point, I have taken to that into the next revision...which is forthcoming...today hopefully. > > >Coolness. In a game of so much extremes, you've provided a middle >ground AND a way for mortals to actually matter. > >Kestrel Brian Gracey s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu sanvi@geocities.com The Celestial War: an In Nomine page http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/6889 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:02:18 -0800 From: Nicholas Jost Subject: RE: IN> New Archangel Suggestion - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D3A.2443AFA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You know I really didn't like this suggestion for nothing else than the = Buddist element. In the scope of the game, let me repeat that, in the = scope of the game, Buddists are heretics. Archangels have a hard enough = time siding with the "correct" C/I/J faiths. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D3A.2443AFA0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhMSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20AU01UUABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5p by5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAZAAAAaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMu aW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABsAAAAnaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMu aW8uY29tJwAAAgELMAEAAAAeAAAAU01UUDpJTl9OT01JTkUtTEBMSVNUUy5JTy5DT00AAAADAAA5 AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA7A7AQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWls Lk5vdGUAMQgBBIABACEAAABSRTogSU4+IE5ldyBBcmNoYW5nZWwgU3VnZ2VzdGlvbgD9CgEFgAMA DgAAAM0HAwAKAAoAAgASAAEAAAEBIIADAA4AAADNBwMACgAKAAAANAABACABAQmAAQAhAAAAQTJF RDA3NjdFRTk2RDAxMTg1M0IwMEEwMjRDRjE2NTIADwcBA5AGAAQDAAASAAAACwAjAAEAAAADACYA AAAAAAsAKQABAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAIIWdMX0tvAEeAHAAAQAAACEAAABSRTogSU4+IE5ldyBB cmNoYW5nZWwgU3VnZ2VzdGlvbgAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvC19MZ1nB+2jlu4R0IU7AKAkzxZS AAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFQAAAG5pY2tqQG9sc3RhZmZpbmcuY29tAAAA AAMABhCrk01xAwAHENEAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABZT1VLTk9XSVJFQUxMWURJRE5UTElLRVRISVNT VUdHRVNUSU9ORk9STk9USElOR0VMU0VUSEFOVEhFQlVERElTVEVMRU1FTlRJTlRIRVNDT1BFT0ZU SEVHQU1FLExFVE1FUkVQAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAfAEAAHgBAAAmAgAATFpGdXTkMFr/AAoBDwIVAqgF 6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDMzcC5AcTAoM0BEYTMzEg dwhVB7ICgH0KgAjPCdk78RgPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFElC/JjAEAgWQhgIGtkbm8H 4EkgGBAHQGyAeSBkaWRuJwVAgGxpa2UgdGgEACAgc3VnZweQdGl9AiAgAhAFwB1AHtEbECB8ZWwR sB7BA5Ee0B6wQnx1ZB4QE8AggRPgCfB0nC4gHXAhFATwb3AesKRvZiEjZ2EHgCwecN0RwCAHgB2R IzBhBUAg4f50JBALgCK/I8UhdQQgCsDPHrAhQBgQH4BjcyJhBxBPEXEbECCRJ9Bhdh6wYd8pMQsg IIAdQB8waB7AB3G/HxAeICBSA/Ae0CEjIgWhERgQY3QiFlAvSS/+Sh/AC3Ae0ChQC0YVYQvytxNQ ICAsESAKhRcxAC9QAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAABzDAsWj+fC28AUAACDDAsWj+fC28AR4APQAB AAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAGcA= - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D3A.2443AFA0-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:20:52 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Question? Un/Holy Water and its affects On Mar 7, 10:46pm, Erik Menard wrote: > Subject: IN> Question? Un/Holy Water and its affects > Hi Guys: > > I don't think this has been discussed, but if it has I guess I > missed it, but I would really like to know what you guys think. > > In my first game the question of Un/Holy water/oil and it practical > effects came up. How do you people think this Issue should be handled? Does > Un/Holy water cause damage to Celestial of the opposite Camp, and if so how > much. Or rather, does it just have a repellant effect like Bug Spray. How > should Un/Holy water be produced (Priest can do it, I think. can Angel and > Demons do it to?) > > I want to use you suggestions to firm up some Ideas I've got on this > matter. When these Ideas gel a little bit better I'll post my Theories Un/Holy Water, as used in everyday mass, doesn't have any special properties against angels or demons. On the other hand, certain Relics/Reliquaries have the ability to make more potent brews. Much like the Un/holy bullets in the main rules, un/holy water has to be specially prepared and is not something you can just pick up at your local church! There's nothing planned around this, but it's an interesting idea. I'll talk to the other In Nomine folks and see what they think. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:27:30 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions On Mar 7, 10:23pm, Raven wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions > On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > There is no second edition currently planned. Nor, > > at this time, does there seem to be a need. > > I know writing an RPG is a major undertaking. I currently have a homebrew > game of my own in the works, and already I've put alot of work into it, > and it's barely playable, not to mention salable. They seemed to have > gotten about 95% of the system down pat, but there's even things in my > old playtest version that aren't in it, like effects of poisons. Just repeating the offical position, man. It's a little bent, not broken. Rather than make people re-buy the main rulebook, the errata and changes will be widely distributed on the web and on the lists and probably in Pyramid magazine. Still, this is not set in stone. If enough outcry for a new edition comes to light, there could very well be a 2nd edition of the main rulebook. There are no plans for it now, however. As for the poison and more mundane things that can damage ya, I think some of that stuff is slated for Night Music, which details Soldiers, Saints and the Undead. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:40:14 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions At 3:30 PM -0500 3/7/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> >> Song, not spell, Song. Maybe the Song of Sleep? (Lullaby, >> lullaby...) > > Verry sleeepy. Up to0 late. Need sleep. Zzzzz.... > > >Actually, the Song of Sleep sounds pretty neat! Lessee.... And it's benefited by the Singing skill? [...] >Essence Requirement: 1* (For Blandine's, and 2 for Beleth's? Might want to recap that here.) >Degree of Disturbance: 1 per person who fights the Song (successfully > or not) But the Essence spent still jangles, right? I'm not sure about the Etherial version -- it desn't seem *much* different from the Etherial Song of Harmony. Maybe waking daydreams intrude themselves, and people can't concentrate on what they were doing? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:58:02 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Yet Another Archangel > [SNIP] > > Rites: > > Servitors of Amare' gain one point of essence when they... > > - Spend 3 hours reading love poetry, philosophical works on love, etc. > > - Spend 1 hour having sex with a partner (love-of-self doesn't apply > > here ;-) ) > Needless to say, this should be CONSENTUAL sex. > > Russ Collins > rgc@io.com > Doh... Yes, this is supposed to be consentual sex. Thus, if you need to generate essence, you need a Consenting Adult, Conscious, Of Their Own Free Will, Not under the Undue Influence of Alcohol, Drugs, Duress, or Mental Incapacity. (did I leave anything out? ;-) ) If you can figure out a way to have non-consentual sex with yourself, my hat is off to you! Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com A buddhist monk kept stealing bread, so that every time he was released from prison, he would simply steal again and wind up back in his old cell. Eventually, after fifty years... he was the only one left in the prison. Think about it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:44:38 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> A Few Questions On Mar 8, 6:26pm, Brian wrote: > Subject: IN> A Few Questions > Greets all, I am new to the list, and to In Nomine as well, and I just have > a few questions... > > 1. Do humans with Six Forces and up (as in Soldiers, Undead, or self > enlightened individuals) have a sense of the Symphony? It would make sense > for Soldiers and Undead, but then I cannot find a yes or no in the book. I > was thinking that they could, just at a lower capacity (lower target > number) than Celestials. > > 2. I just wonder what magick would be like in the IN universe, seeing as > how mundane's can reach a Sixth Force on their own, which "should" give > them hightened awareness and abilities. I plan on making some variants for > my own campaign concerning this, basing magick upon certain comics I have > read which I think are chock full of ideas for IN, such as the Sandman and > Hellblazer. > > 3. In thinking of magick in IN, I came to the conclusion that one of the > branches would be Summoning, which would include Binding and Protection, > and such magick would rely upon ritual and material components, as well as > verbal and somantic. I was wondering though. Should one be able to summon > an Angel? A demon would make sense, and I was thinking that their Chance > of Invocation would be (6 - Celestial Forces), modified by materials used > in the ritual, length of ritual, so on and so forth. Comments on this > would be appreciated. The 'sixth force' a soldier gets is a symptom, not the cause of them being a soldier (or undead, etc). Particularly driven individuals with no alleigance to any side could garner a sixth force, yet still not be any more in touch with the symphony. But to answer your question, Soldiers _can_ detect Disturbances with the same chances as Celestials. Their stats are usually much worse, so most of the time this is a bit of a longshot, at best. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:47:38 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> New Archangel Suggestions Keep suggesting ideas your think are neat. Who knows, maybe one will Tickle Our Fancy... ;) But don't limit yourselves, folks. Not every word-bound angel is an Archangel. Nor every word-bound demon a Demon Prince. While there are quite a few greater beings on both sides not detailed, the angelic/demonic hierarchy isn't nearly that topheavy! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:52:26 -0600 From: s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu (Brian) Subject: IN> Magick, Revision (Long) Magick is and always has been a power in the corporeal realm, though in recent times, few believe in it, and fewer still know the tricks to working it. Magick, unlike the Songs of the celestials, does not create new notes within the Symphony, it simply alters existing ones to the will of the user. Magick is an integral part of the corporeal realm, and though it may affect the ethereal and the celestial, it is always based in the corporeal. Only those of corporeal existance may use magick, though other beings (celestials, ethereal spirits) in a corporeal vessel may attempt to at great difficulty [Ethereal (for a spirit) or Celestial (for a celestial) Forces are deducted from the base target]. * Magick is neither divine nor infernal in nature, yet it is not neccessarily accepted, at the GMs discresion, by either side. Magick can lean in one direction or the other however, being "influenced" by Heaven or Hell. This influence, which depends upon the intended use of the magick, the user, and the materials used in its action, determine whether intervention of a divine or an infernal nature will be beneficial or detrimental. Magick is fueled by Essence, and as such, takes a directed use of Essence to perform. This means that normally, only beings with [6+ Forces] may attempt to use magick, though, as anyone can learn the inovcations and the rites, even those with [5- Forces] may occasionally through great concentration work a little magick [d666 vs. Will - Total Forces; Check Digit = total Essence which may be spent on the attempt]. Base Target = [Current Essence + Invocation/Ritual Level - Dissonance; Check Digit = potency of desired effect; failed roll inflicts {Check Digit} notes of Dissonance] Magick is commonly categorized as having two spheres, Passive and Active magick. Passive magick does NOT disturb the Symphony, not even through Essence expenditure, though Active magick does slightly, with a degree of {Essence Spent}. The effects of either type of magick can affect the Symphony though, such as through taking human life or summoning a demon. The disturbance created though will not "announce" that the effect was achived through magick however... Passive magicks do not drastically alter the Symphony, they only sense within it or "bend" it slightly. Passive magicks have a base cost of {1 Essence}. Active magicks alter the Symphony to the desires of the user, and cost {3 Essence} as a base. There are two accepted ways to perform magick, through Invocation and Ritual. Invocations are sort of a "quick cast" form of magick, taking only one round to perform. They usually require some form of verbal and/or somantic component, though this is left to the discresion of the GM. The use of this diluted form of magick decreases the target level of the attempted roll by {Essence Cost}, and the effects of a successful roll will manifest the round after completion of the invocation. Some magicks, at the will of the GM, may not be performed through invocation, such as summoning or binding. A Ritual is the most basic, and most potent, form of magick; grand cerimonies, endless dances to invoke spirits, control nature, etc. A ritual takes a base time of {1 hour} to perform, with every additional hour spent beyond the required time increasing the target level of the attempted roll by 1. Also a ritual requires grandiose verbal and somantic components, as well as mystical materials, called Foci. Effects of a successful roll manifest {Check Digit} minutes after the rite's completion. In order to perform a ritual, one needs {Total Forces - Ritual Level} levels of foci. Foci are not inherently magickal in and of themselves, but with the aid of words and movement from the performer, they give shape to the magick. The level of a focus indicates its "mystacism" as well as its rarity. * Foci may not be "bought" with Character Points, they must be gained through play, either being bought or found by the character. Obtaining high level foci might become adventures in and of themselves. * Any levels of foci beyond the required amount increase the target number of the attempted roll by {Focus Level}, thus even if no focus is needed to perform a rite, using one is beneficial. Foci may also be used as such for invocations, but are not required. Anything can be attempted, and usually achived, through magick, and there are as many different Invocations, Foci, and Rituals as there are notes within the Symphony. Examples of the above, as well as rules on magickal items, are forthcoming... Brian Gracey s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu sanvi@geocities.com The Celestial War: an In Nomine page http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/6889 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:53:39 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Riders and Hosts > > Thinking about the "getting use to the host" idea, do Riders automatically > get easy use of the facilities of the Host. As Kyrioate's do not get access > to the mind or memories of their Host they might not ba able to use the > physical abilities of their Host as well as the Host does. Eg a newly > created Kryioate goes to earth and seeing a pigeon decides to possess it. > Does the *Pigeon* fall out of the sky as the Kyrioate now alone in possesion > of the piegon's body has little idea of how to use it to stay in the air? Standard movement and abilities are included in the 'owner's manual' that comes with the vessel. The possessors' tie with the symphony provides this for free. Learned skills, like maybe that pigeon had been taught to do loop-de-loops when it wants birdseed, are unavailable. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:58:15 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Newquist's (and Our) Labour of Love On Mar 10, 9:12am, Bodhi wrote: > Subject: IN> Newquist's (and Our) Labour of Love > I just had to say a big Thank You to Jason Newquist for his In Nomine > Collections page at > > http://www.nocturne.org/INC/ Yup. Good stuff, there. He gets a mention on the official FAQ which is should be linked of the main In Nomine page in a day or so. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:33:11 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers On Mar 8, 12:46am, Raven wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers > On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Raven wrote: > > > The way I see it, a demon in celestial form, like Shedim forced out of > > his host, would simply be forced from Tether, albeit violently. The > > first round he spends being burned by Divine light, and is incapable of > > action. Have him make a Will roll. If he succeeds, at the start of the > > next round, he is forced to the nearest point just outside the Tether's > > perimeter, and is stunned for (7 - check digit) rounds. If he fails, he > > is thrown to a random point (check digit) yards outside the Tether's > > perimeter, is stunned for (6 + check digit) rounds, and takes (check > > digit) Soul hits. [suggestion snipped] I prefer not to do this with attribute rolls because that opens the possibility for someone with a high attribute simply ignoring the tether's damage. Since Shedim possession requires a Will roll, for example, that means that a Shedim with a very high will could operate in a divine tether (if they managed to get trapped there) with relative impunity. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:29:04 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> IN vs. INS/MV On Mar 7, 10:38pm, Raven wrote: > Subject: IN> IN vs. INS/MV > Does anyone know how different is IN from INS/MV? I would imagine tha basic > mechanics are the same, but aside from that, how much was changed? I was > wondering for a long time why IN was taking so long; I had thought all > they were doing was translating it and making it more palatable for an > American audience. Also, the older playtest I have is signifigantly > different. Combat and damage worked differently (The primary attributes > were actually reduced by damage), Vessels and Artifacts were bought > differently, characters had a permanent Essence score which was spent on > Resources instead of CP's, and Resonance and Dissonance systems just > weren't there. I still keep my copy around for reference, tho'; it has a > few nifty bits, like more detailed description of Heaven and Hell, poison > rules, and some more Songs and skills. From comments and various snatches of conversation, I have gleaned the following (probably accurate) information: 1) The mechanics are different 2) The background has been modified in MANY details Actual details are unknown to me, however. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 14:20:31 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Yet Another Archangel At 11:58 AM 3/10/97 +0000, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >If you can figure out a way to have non-consentual sex with yourself, >my hat is off to you! The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing ;> Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 14:22:08 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> IN vs. INS/MV At 02:29 PM 3/10/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >On Mar 7, 10:38pm, Raven wrote: >> Subject: IN> IN vs. INS/MV >> Does anyone know how different is IN from INS/MV? I would imagine tha basic >> mechanics are the same, but aside from that, how much was changed? I was >> wondering for a long time why IN was taking so long; I had thought all >> they were doing was translating it and making it more palatable for an >> American audience. Also, the older playtest I have is signifigantly >> different. Combat and damage worked differently (The primary attributes >> were actually reduced by damage), Vessels and Artifacts were bought >> differently, characters had a permanent Essence score which was spent on >> Resources instead of CP's, and Resonance and Dissonance systems just >> weren't there. I still keep my copy around for reference, tho'; it has a >> few nifty bits, like more detailed description of Heaven and Hell, poison >> rules, and some more Songs and skills. > > > From comments and various snatches of conversation, I have >gleaned the following (probably accurate) information: > >1) The mechanics are different >2) The background has been modified in MANY details > > Actual details are unknown to me, however. Didn't an ancient Pyramid magazine article cover the differences? Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:36:37 -0500 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: Re: IN> A Few Thoughts..... Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > Which begs the question: Why this strange urge to cut off the heads of > one's fellow immortals? And what, in this context, is the Prize? Well in the context of In Nomine I was thinking that the Immortals don't regain essence like their celestial parent. However they have realized that by destroying (i.e. taking another mortals head) the victor gains that Immortals essence as well as maybe any Skills the Immortal knew (?). Of course in the end "There Can Be Only One". Hatcher Rhanyr "The Angel of Bright Shiney Teeth" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:35:16 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? > Erm? If it can happen without them thinking about it, it > sounds accidental... (Humans have "accidents" all the time, > of course.) Humans accidentally 'spill' essence, while Celestials have more control. > And if you swap vessels, then that takes a long time as > well... (Hey, can you let someone else borrow one of your > vessels, or trade it? "Hey, Joel, would you carry this kid for me?") That gives the concept of 'babysitting' a whole _new_ dimension! ;) > Though you might still get "special" human souls? I could live with > that easy. With a greater potential for greatness? (Soldiers, sorcerers and the like...) Certainly! > > Ah, this gets into the meat of the proposed article. > >The proto-angel is, for most intents and purposes, a human > >called a Chrysalid until they emerge. Until that point they > >live and die as a human. > > Same as your average Child of Grigori, I presume? Yup. > >Afterwards, they are fully angel and > >subject to the restrictions and enhancements angels have. > >The dead proto-angel could be used as the core of a new angel > >possibly, since their soul was essentially angelic. > > That last paragraph is mildly confusing -- do they evolve as > Relievers do, once the human shell is dead? (We think Relievers > are baby celestials, born in Heaven, BTW.) What I was thinking was that the essential nature of the soul was set at conception. If the soul does not have enough time to mature in the Corporeal world, what happens to it? My answer was that the soul was angelic (the 'hard' part of creating an angel had been done) and could grow like any other soul of the sort. Having them grow like Relievers is a pretty cool idea, I think. > >> Hm. So where do Grigi-Kiddies show up when they die? > > Depending on how you look at things, there are > >two different choices. > > 1) God made the Grigori to be so close to human > >that all their children with humans were human > > No can do -- it says that the Children of Grigori are celestials. > p. 67, Physical Death, and After: "When the corporeal vessel of a > celestial (including a a celestial spirit or a child of the > Grigori) is killed, his Forces regroup in the celestial realm, but > his soul may need time to recover." Hmmm. Well, I'm not afraid to overrule the book if they decide to accept the article. We'll just have to put a touch o' errata on that point. ;) (Errata is sorta like whiteout, but doesn't come in convenient bottles.) In fact, I made another proposal that would also change that paragraph! More on this later... > > 2) Grigori, fallen or no, are angels still. They > >have the same chances of making an angel as any other angel. > > Which would imply that the "part angel" children of the Grigori > are usually the ones with full celestial souls, rather than the > superior-human version? (Though the book *says* they're part angel, > which could mean that two superior-human Grigori descendants could > produce a celestial Child of the Grigori?) By my thinking, no. At least one parent must a full angel to produce an angel. The whole Grigori/angel question is going to get a massive talking about, I imagine. My view has always been that Grigori are 'tripped' angels. Some Grigori (and their children) fell all the way and became Nephallim. The 'part-angel' reference is probably just a hint that the offspring of angels and humans were more capable, more likely to take an active part in the war than their less gifted kin. > > Of the two, #2 has richer role-playing opportunities. > >Maybe the mysterious Grigori still exist and have ways of > >reproducing that make neither angels, humans or devils. > >A sort of 'pre-tripped for you convenience' angel. This was > >firmly beyond the score of the article since the details of > >the Grigori are still being batted around. > > Excommunicated angels, maybe? Very close! We don't talk to 'em and we don't talk about 'em. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:42:13 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> A Few Thoughts..... >Yes, I have read the Books of Magic, and it is a major source of >inspiration for my rules. By the way, just found out in Summonings that >Titania isn't Tim's mother, nothing was said about his father. Actually, if you follow the twistings of the rapidly-fragmenting Niel Gaimen based comics, in the Books of Faerie it's revealed that Titania is Tim's mother, but the reason he "has no fairy blood in him", as Auberon mentions, is because Titania is really a changling, a human child stolen by the Fae. The actions of certain members of the court caused everyone to forget that she wasn't really Fae... Of course, I'm getting terribly off-topic for the list now, so I'll stop there... -Loki - -- Kirt "Loki" Dankmyer PGP key avail. My opinions are my own. love * Eris * RPGs * Anime * Magick * Carroll * techno * hats * cats * Dada I waked, she fled, and day brought back my night. --Milton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:54:59 -0800 From: "Joe Fulgham" Subject: Re: IN> Elerial > > Sounds good to me, I'll put a lot more thought and detail > >in and see what the higher-ups think. The field for major > >players is already about full for the supplements for the game, but > >since Elerial is a 'sleeper' that can pack a wallop, she works > >better in the magazine format. > > Oooooh, this give me ideas, must get to word processor... > > Here's an idea: Elerial has a practical joke she's planning on the Demon > Princes. It'll only take another thousand years to come to fruition... it > involves tectonic plates. Heh, tectonic plates, and the luring of the majority of the world's "evil" population to the west coast of North America, specifically, California... perhaps it's not so far away after all... - --------------------------------------------------------- Joe Fulgham |"Expecting the world to treat you puck@holycow.com | fairly because you are a good www.holycow.com | person is a little like expecting PGP Key available | the bull not to attack you because Puck Undernet #mtg | you are a vegetarian. -Dennis Wholey ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #63 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.