From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Mar 10 22:04:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20118; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:03:02 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA04224 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:06:18 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:06:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199703110406.WAA04224@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #65 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, March 10 1997 Volume 01 : Number 065 In this digest: IN> In Nomine FAQ (3/10/97) Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? Re: IN> New Archangel Suggestions Re: IN> Grigori Death Re: IN> In Nomine FAQ (3/10/97) IN> A Few Thoughts.. Immortals + Others IN> Coordinated Oz IN> Magic(k) IN>Score one for Nybbas Re: IN> re: which is real religion? Re: IN>Score one for Nybbas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:33:57 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> In Nomine FAQ (3/10/97) - --PART-BOUNDARY=.19703101733.ZM3309.ascc.lucent.com Content-Description: Text Content-Type: text/plain ; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Zm-Decoding-Hint: mimencode -q -u In Nomine FAQ Copyright =A9 by Steve Jackson Games Incorporated. GENERAL QUESTIONS What is In Nomine? In Nomine is a game about the ultimate struggle: between the selfless and the selfish, between good and evil, between God and Lucifer. Ultimately, though, it comes down to angels and demons both trying their damnedest to sway humanity to their side. Annoyingly though, humanity and its precious free will keep spoiling plans of both the diabolical and the divine. In the game, you can play anything from a human just awakened to the Struggle, a Soldier who is a little more powerful and a lot more in the line of fire, an undead creature or, as most do, an angel or demon. Where can I get a copy? Isn't it still being worked on? Not at all! After a lengthy delay (no doubt the work of the Fallen Ones), it is out. The book was primarily delayed to make sure that it was the best possible book that could be produced. It went through extensive playtesting and revision to try to keep the quality top-notch. What is this In Nomine hardback I keep hearing about? The limited hardback version of IN NOMINE will ship to distributors in mid to late March (we're experiencing a printer delay). Suggested retail is $29.95. There are two versions: white pseudo-leather cover with angel cross, and black cover with demonic (inverted) cross -- both with red foil. Contents of both versions are identical to those of the softback. Isn't In Nomine just a translation of the French game by Croc, In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas? More correctly, In Nomine (the SJG version) is an adaptation of Croc's game. The basic concept is very similar, but if there were a true 'translation' of INS/MV into English, the differences would be obvious. There was a direct translation into German for those who are interested. Will there be supplements? Seven supplements are planned for the year after In Nomine's initial release, one of which (the GM's screen) was ready in February. There is a LOT of material waiting to be published, fear not! Even with just the original book, though, you can run many, many adventures in a very complex, highly detailed world. Some of you know it as earth... ;) (Nearly any Bible can make an excellent source of adventuring ideas!) What is the name of that cool headline typeface? SKREETCH CAPS. Who's who in In Nomine right now? o The original author of INS/MV is Croc o The publisher is Steve Jackson Games o The designer/author of the SJG version is Derek Pearcy o The line editor is Mike Sullivan (Moriah) o The main netrep is John Karakash o A notable mention is Jason Newquist who has a delightful In Nomine rules page. He credits many people on that page... check it out! RULES QUESTIONS Angels SERAPHS Can a Seraph of Yves tell that a 'person' is a demon by using their servitor attunement? How about the Word of a Word-bound Celestial? Their choir/band? Yes, but let the check digit determine how much information is given. Artifacts CORPOREAL ARTIFACTS How much does a Corporeal Artifact cost? Why should I buy it at higher then Level/1? The cost is 1 point per level and the only reason to get it at a higher level is to make it easier to find. Is the level of the artifact the chance it will 'turn up' at the right time? No. It means that your chance to find your Porsche in a crowded parking lot is easier, not that your Porsche will happen to be in any random parking lot you are in. ETHEREAL ARTIFACTS: TALISMANS Who can use a talisman? Anyone. Why does a Talisman cost 2 points when the matching skill would only cost 1? One point per level is for the skill, and the other is for the attunement to the object. Keep in mind that Talismans can boost skill above 6 and provide an object with which to use certain skills! (Try to use your Large Weapons skill without a large weapon handy...) CELESTIAL ARTIFACTS: RELICS AND RELIQUARIES How much is the cost of a relic/reliquary? The rules were a bit scattered (between p. 42 and p. 71), but here they are. o A Relic costs 3 character points per level o A Reliquary costs 3 character points per level o A Celestial Artifact that is both but the Essence can only be used for Song in the Relic costs 5 character points per level. o A celestial artifact that is both but the Essence can be used for other purposes costs 6 character points per level. Can soliders use relics/reliquaries? Soldiers can use Corporeal Songs in a relic, any normal reliquaries, and reliquaries that power a relic for the use of Corporeal Songs. Celestials What gender are Angels (or Demons for that matter)? Angels don't have an innate gender. They do take on a physical gender while using a Vessel, but the essential nature of an Angel is Celestial. Everything else is just window dressing. Can anyone recognize a Celestial in a Vessel? Even with a Perception roll? No. Celestials have to 'tip their hand' by disturbing the Symphony or exercising powers; but then again, Soldiers do that, too, when they disturb the Symphony... so, in other words, not by sight or Perception. Celestial Forms Can someone disguise while in their Celestial form? (e.g. looking like a Lilim when you are a Balseraph?) or change your shape temporarily or permanently? In Heaven, no. In Hell, perhaps . . . this will be addressed in HEAVEN AND HELL. Character Creation Can a starting character convert character points to attribute points or Forces? If they buy a Force, does this mean their total character points go up? Officially, the purchase of attributes and Forces is not a part of character creation. As always, GMs can make their own ruling on that. And, no, you don't get more points when you raise your Forces! Combat and Damage Hey! Strength gives almost no bonus to damage, but directly increases the chance to hit! What gives? Strength is used for dukin' it out and for large weapons. In the latter case, it's pretty obvious why this statistic was chose. As for the former, in the long run we are talking about a game that is much more superheroic than realistic. In a world like that, it matters little if the strong guy hits a lot of times and the weak guy hits relatively few, the end result is the same: The strong guy does more damage. It's possible that a new skill (Judo perhaps) based on agility will be included for those martial artist types. Those angels are using guns! They certainly are. While Celestials have access to powerful Songs, when they are fighting on the Corporeal plane (i.e. Earth), it makes less Disturbance and is frequently more effective to eliminate their opponent's Vessel using Corporeal means. They'd probably use hand-grenades and rocket-launchers more often if it didn't generate so much noise (in several senses of the word). It seems that even an 'average' human can take a lot of hits. A way to simulate the ability to take out mortals easily is to allow double or triple damage for killing attacks (such as guns) when dealing with normal humans (not celestials, soldiers, saints or the undead). What if someone switches Vessels in the same combat round that they get hit? All things are simultaneous in a round in basic combat. So, both happen, the celestial gets hit and switches vessel (in other words, the original vessel is the one damaged). Whenever that celestial switches back, that celestial will find their body in the condition as if the hit took place. This might mean that the body is unconscious or even dead. In advanced combat, follow the order given on p. 68 or on the GM's screen. In this case, switching Vessels is a supernatural power which happens before getting hit. Remember that each Vessel has their own supply of Body hits, making an alternate Vessel much more attractive a choice! Does physical damage cause pain/shock effects? Yes. Stunning (p. 62) occurs when you take hits of more than 25% of your Body in one round." D666 Why is it that someone with a total skill of 10 and someone with a total skill of 4 have the same chance for a spectacular (6 on the check digit) result? Actually, they don't. The person with a 10 is much more likely to succeed, then get the six on the check digit, while the person with the 4 skill has a hard time succeeding at all! So in this example the first person has a 11 chances out of 72 to get the spectacular result while his unskilled counterpart only has a 2 in 72 chance for the same result. Do I have to use the check digit? What about situations where the check digit wouldn't apply? Except where the rules specifically mention it (and not even then for you gung-ho GMs), the check digit need never be consulted. In most other cases it can just be used for color at the whim of the GM. Ummmm... isn't '666' supposed to be a satanic number of some sort? Yes and no. It was mentioned in the revelation according to Saint John the Divine as the Number of the Beast. If anything, it was a warning as a way to recognize 'the Beast', whomever or whatever it might be. But for this game, it's just a fun way of representing a different dice convention. It couldn't just call it 3d6, and 2d6/d6 doesn't quite the same ring to it. Demons GENERAL Where are those popular demons of legend, the Incubi and Succubi? You can make servants of Andrealphus or Beleth serve this role (or some of the Lilim, of course). At the moment, there are no plans for these to appear in the game as distinct Bands. CALABIM What does it look like to observers when one of the Calabim uses his resonance on an object? It depends on who the fallen angel is working for. The resonance of Belial's demons burns its targets, or appears to - -- neither flame nor heat is actually created, that's just the closest that the Symphony can come to representing the effect. Saminga's Calabim cause materials to rust, rot, shrink away into nothingness. Some other suggestions have been posted on Joel Cardella's page. LILIM The check digit determines the "level" of the desire that someone has, right? Nope. The level of difficulty in granting their desire. How does a Lilim handle two people calling in favors at once? Heh. A very, very clever Lilim would try to work it out, somehow, that both are satisfied. More likely she will experience dissonance and possibly discord from the conflicting favors. Other avenues might include trying to re-negotiate the favor so they don't conflict or asking someone else to help resolve the situation (which might involve yet another favor being issued). Demon Princes GENERAL The French and German games of INS/MV had Demon Princes for Cold, Ocean and Illness/Plagues. Will they be introduced in forthcoming supplements? The French game-world includes, by now, more than 100 Superiors. Not all will make it into our version. We will be introducing some new ones in supplements, and explaining why some of the others are no longer part of the Symphony . . . " Disturbance Does switching to celestial form cause the same degree of disturbance in the Symphony as actually leaving or returning from the Celestial Realm? Yes. Does the 2 Essence required to change into Celestial form add to this? Yes. Does a Celestial going to the Celestial Realm cause double the disturbance (once for changing form, and again for leaving)? Yes, although entering doesn't cause double since one enters the Corporeal Realm directly into a vessel. As a general guideline, GMs should always make the Disturbance rules side with celestial powers being as noisy as possible. Celestial powers make celestials hot stuff on earth, but there is always risk involved -- being noticed. The 2 Essence is added since there are times when a celestial doesn't have to spend that Essence, e.g., transforming in a Tether (although, compared to the noise a Tether makes, who would notice?). Also note that switching vessels should be as loud as going celestial. Falling An angel can become a demon just by rolling badly?! Not at all. If you never generate Dissonance, you cannot fall. Also angels have a 'safety net' of sorts. The first time they 'fall', they become outcasts and can try to regain their former divine status. It's the second time that takes them on that long plunge hellward. Also the odds are astoundingly skewed against falling as long as you have fewer than 5 points of Dissonance. Three points or less can always be converted to Discord, staving off the reckoning for some time. When an Angel falls, I guess his/her celestial appearance changes, but what causes that change? Can it be somewhat controlled? Metaphysics. Angel are creatures whose nature is attuned to some part of the Symphony - their Choir, their Superior, their own Word. By rejecting that nature, their Resonances change... they strike a new chord. Their outward appearance reflects the Resonance of a Dark Angel. It says here that Malakim can't fall at all! Can this be right? Yup. Malakim don't Fall. However, they do gain Dissonance everytime they act dishonorably, especially by breaking one of their oaths. If they succeed on their Dissonance roll, they just get one more note of Dissonance. If they fail a Dissonance roll the first time, they become Outcast (and gain another note of Dissonance). Yes, they can be Outcast. For each time an Outcast Malakite fails a Dissonance roll, they gain another note of Dissonance and a level of Discord. While Malakim can't Fall mechanically, who knows, maybe some day an Outcast Malakite with Dissonance and Discord coming out the wazoo will choose to Fall. For that reason, Outcast Malakim are on the top of Dominic's and Laurence's hit list. As well as on the top of every other Malakite hit list. Good luck! Forces If a character has no Forces, how are the characteristics determined? He has 4 times his Forces in the area, which is zero. So his total attributes are zero in both stats. Hell of a life isn't it? In the case of Remnants, the only reason a stiff Celestial breeze won't just blow such a wretch away is that they are protected by their Corporeal Vessel. Hearts Can a Heart be moved from Heaven to Hell? (e.g. You WANT to fall so you take your Heart from Heaven before Dominic's pals get it and you move it to Hell... I don't say it has to be easy... just want to know if it's possible or completely impossible). Hearts are something your Superior provides so that you have a celestial home. When you Fall/Repent your heart self-destructs since you have broken a metaphysical contact with your Superior, and your Superior no longer supports your heart. You can swipe (or be given) your heart from your Superior and put it anywhere you want, except for the Celestial Realm of the Other Side -- as long as your Superior supports it. Eli gave all his servants their hearts to do with as they please. Beleth and Blandine keep their servants' hearts in their respective towers. When the rules give restrictions about hearts not leaving the Celestial Realms, that's only because the Superior will stop supporting your heart if you go that far (as with the Archangels). BTW, If you swipe your heart, your Superior will be swiping the floor with your downy butt, plus you'll get a note of Dissonance. Also, keep in mind, there is no advantage to having a heart on earth, except for becoming very hard to locate by your Superior (yes, with some Superiors, that's a blessing). Can you have more than one Heart? (e.g. Oooops Dominic got my Heart and kept it locked somewhere to track me and now my Demon Prince made me a new one?) If you can convince more than one Superior that your are their faithful Servitor, sure. Good luck. The Symphony will be happy to accept your disbanded Forces once one of your Superiors find out. Don't forget that a fallen angel's heart shatters... What is the process for creating a Heart? Can an Angel/Demon with his/her own Word create a Heart for him/herself? for another? Or is that the exlusive realm of ArchAngel & Demon Princes? The Latter. There are no rules, the GM makes the call since the mechanics of being a Superior are outside the scope of the PCs. Hearts can't leave the Celestial plane... where are the Hearts of Beleth/Blandine servitors? See above. The hearts of their servants were created in the Marches, and thus, never have the opportunity to leave the Celestial Realm. Obviously, B/B might stop supporting your heart if you (try) to remove it from their Towers. How about a Lilim's heart? Lilim serving a Superior would have a Superior-forged heart in some Principality of Hell. Lilim who are 'free' don't have a heart (grin). They could, if a Superior or Lilith were willing, trade a favor in order to have that Superior create and keep a heart for her. Creating hearts is a heavy Essence expense on the part of a Superior, and they don't do it lightly. This would be 6 levels of Geas for sure. And another 6 levels of Geas in payment to have the Superior 'liberate' her heart and let her put it where she wants. Rites GENERAL Some rites seem rather deadly to the performer. For example, how can angels of Jean perform the 'two hours plugged into the mains' ritual? How come Belial's servants have to already be immune to fire to perform his 250-degree ritual? The performance of the Rite itself grants immunity during the duration of the Rite unless the rite specifically specifies otherwise. Roles How do humans buy Roles? The rules on p. 72 seem to be wrong. They are indeed inconsistent; please use the following (some repeated from p. 43): Humans don't buy a Role. They can buy levels of Status/x at the cost of [(Status - 1) * 2] with the first level of Status being automatically added for free. In other words, each level of Status beyond the free one costs two points. The cost of a Role for Celestials is the [(Role's Status * Role's Level) / 2], rounded up if necessary. Soldiers Who do soldiers serve? And what powers do they gain thereby? Two different parts of the text (p. 32 and p. 190) seem to have conflicting ideas about this. Soldiers serve a side -- Heaven or Hell. They are directly supervised by a Superior's Servitor. It is possible for a Soldier to receive the Servitor Attunements of the Superior they are serving under (directly or indirectly). So they could directly serve Joe the Angel, but get Joe's Superior's attunements. Laurence is charged with coordinating the Soldiers of God on earth. He makes his Servitor Attunements available to them (regardless of who else they may serve or whatever religion they may be). Does this give the soldiers of God and edge? Well, yes, but they need it since they are rather outnumbered. Does a soldier using a Song cause a Disturbance? All focused Essence expenditures cause Disturbance, though the source is unrecognizeable as angelic, demonic or human. The default use of Essence by untrained humans does not cause a disturbance. Songs CLAWS Why are higher levels of this Song less accurate than lower levels? It has to do with the length. The longer claws do much more damage, but are unwieldy, hence the lower accuracy. You can always use the smaller claws if you want a better chance to hit and are willing to have reduced damage. NUMIOUS CORPUS Is this one Song or many? Do I have to buy them all? Each feature under Numious Corpus is a seperate Song and must be paid for individually. Words What kinds of Words are there? Vices, virtues, ideas, ideologies, causes, things of the world. There will be in an upcoming supplement, an outline of Words that have been compiled based on Scholastic/Aristotelian theo/philosophy. Archangels and Princes seem to have much shorter names, is this because they are more powerful? No, cooler. They got the world to call their abstract causes by one Word. Sort of like Cher. Do words get shorter (and more abstract) as the celestials influence increases? Possibly, but not necessarily. Celestials don't lightly change Words. They're more likely to be stripped of a Word than to change it. The Word you first get is you. You are uniquely tuned to it. To try to change it on your own goes against nature. You must promote the Word which is yours, not shop around for cooler one. BACKGROUND QUESTIONS Are there more Angels or Demons? Lucifer's Forces were originally outnumberd 2 to 1 in the War and, one must presume, he lost more of his host than God did. Afterwards, though, he started creating new demons as fast as he could, as described on p. 155. The current situation seems to be that there are more demons than angels, but demons are generally weaker. Notice how scared the demon was in A Dark Dream when he heard an angel was in town? This is how a vast number of the infernal hordes feel about the average angel. If demons can't enter Heaven, but angels can go into Hell, why haven't all the angels gotten together and gone and kicked the demons' collective butts? Good question. And one that is asked at the highest levels of the angelic hierarchy (and the middle levels and probably all the way down to the bottom)! One answer is that fighting someone on their home territory, especially masters of deception and lies, is probably a bad idea tactically. Another answer is that they might lose the very thing they were fighting over: the souls of all those humans. Some Celestials (on either side) don't give a hoot about humanity, but a whole lot do. And The Boss seems to care a great deal. Undoubtably, such a fight would have major consequences on those that inhabit the earth. Good and Evil aren't really mentioned in the book, what is all the fuss about then? (i.e. Why are the Angels and Devils fighting?) Angels are trying to follow God's plan to the best of their flawed perceptions. Demons are trying to chart their own course of selfishness which means, nearly by default, they have to work for Hell (the rebel's rebels are quickly hunted down and, at best, killed). Are angels and demons the hidden masters of a helpless humanity? Is this another 'humans are helpless pawn of unknowable forces' game? Hardly! The celestials (on either side), are doing their best to influence humanity toward their way of thinking, but most of their efforts are spent combating each other. Humanity with its wonderful free will can choose their own Destiny... or Fate. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Jackson Games * In Nomine - -- = ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ - --PART-BOUNDARY=.19703101733.ZM3309.ascc.lucent.com-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:47:15 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? At 3:35 PM -0500 3/10/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> Erm? If it can happen without them thinking about it, it >> sounds accidental... (Humans have "accidents" all the time, >> of course.) > > Humans accidentally 'spill' essence, while Celestials >have more control. Right, okay. But I wouldn't think that the Servitors of Creation would have any less control -- though they might be more likely to do it deliberately! >>>Afterwards, they are fully angel and >>>subject to the restrictions and enhancements angels have. >>>The dead proto-angel could be used as the core of a new angel >>>possibly, since their soul was essentially angelic. >> >>That last paragraph is mildly confusing -- do they evolve as >>Relievers do, once the human shell is dead? (We think Relievers >>are baby celestials, born in Heaven, BTW.) > > What I was thinking was that the essential nature >of the soul was set at conception. If the soul does not >have enough time to mature in the Corporeal world, what >happens to it? My answer was that the soul was >angelic (the 'hard' part of creating an angel had been >done) and could grow like any other soul of the sort. >Having them grow like Relievers is a pretty cool idea, >I think. They may *be* Relievers, if they're killed before they have all their Forces... >>>> Hm. So where do Grigi-Kiddies show up when they die? >>> Depending on how you look at things, there are >>>two different choices. >>> 1) God made the Grigori to be so close to human >>>that all their children with humans were human >> >>No can do -- it says that the Children of Grigori are celestials. >>p. 67, Physical Death, and After: "When the corporeal vessel of a >>celestial (including a a celestial spirit or a child of the >>Grigori) is killed, his Forces regroup in the celestial realm, but >>his soul may need time to recover." > > Hmmm. Well, I'm not afraid to overrule the book if >they decide to accept the article. We'll just have to put a >touch o' errata on that point. ;) (Errata is sorta like >whiteout, but doesn't come in convenient bottles.) ! I *liked* the previous notion. Option #1 is boring. (Perfectly valid, but boring.) > In fact, I made another proposal that would also >change that paragraph! More on this later... Okay... >>> 2) Grigori, fallen or no, are angels still. They >>>have the same chances of making an angel as any other angel. >> >>Which would imply that the "part angel" children of the Grigori >>are usually the ones with full celestial souls, rather than the >>superior-human version? (Though the book *says* they're part angel, >>which could mean that two superior-human Grigori descendants could >>produce a celestial Child of the Grigori?) > > By my thinking, no. At least one parent must a full >angel to produce an angel. The whole Grigori/angel question >is going to get a massive talking about, I imagine. My view >has always been that Grigori are 'tripped' angels. Some >Grigori (and their children) fell all the way and became >Nephallim. The 'part-angel' reference is probably just >a hint that the offspring of angels and humans were more >capable, more likely to take an active part in the war than >their less gifted kin. I could buy that -- power might be concentratable, perhaps? A powerful human-grig + a celestial would be more likely to have a celestial kid than your average human, or even the average "half-celestial human". >> > Of the two, #2 has richer role-playing opportunities. >> >Maybe the mysterious Grigori still exist and have ways of >> >reproducing that make neither angels, humans or devils. >> >A sort of 'pre-tripped for you convenience' angel. This was >> >firmly beyond the score of the article since the details of >> >the Grigori are still being batted around. >> >> Excommunicated angels, maybe? > > Very close! We don't talk to 'em and we don't >talk about 'em. I think it was stated that they were excommunicated -- this obviously applies to their kids... (Y'know, if you're taking the stance that they're supposed to be a "secret undercover force for Good," maybe part of the excommunication was that their angelic nature would breed true.... Unlike other angels.) (BTW, if the Children of the Grigori are as verboten as the Grigori themselves, what happens when they show up in Heaven, after death?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 06:55:37 +0000 From: "Joel Cardella" Subject: Re: IN> New Archangel Suggestions > Keep suggesting ideas your think are neat. Who knows, > maybe one will Tickle Our Fancy... ;) > But don't limit yourselves, folks. Not every word-bound > angel is an Archangel. Nor every word-bound demon a Demon > Prince. While there are quite a few greater beings on both > sides not detailed, the angelic/demonic hierarchy isn't > nearly that topheavy! So do Wored-bound Celestials (other than the Hierarchy) have Basic Rites or Servitor Attunements? - --------------------------------- Joel Cardella All the powers of a man bestowed on a man. http://www.io.com/~dronf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:05:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Grigori Death At 3:10 PM -0600 3/10/97, Brian Emord wrote: >One final question on this point, do the Grigori still have a celestial >form or is there some variation for them??? Probably look like greek gods -- halos, tall and handsome, but nominally humanoid.... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:33:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine FAQ (3/10/97) At 5:33 PM -0500 3/10/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: [...] > LILIM > > >The check digit determines the "level" of the desire that >someone has, right? > >Nope. The level of difficulty in granting their desire. This is an unclear explanation to me... It's the level of difficulty that the subject would experience in achieving the desire, right? And if somebody has several needs, then the CD determines which one gets picked up in, or so I previously understood... [...] > Disturbance > > > >Does switching to celestial form cause the same degree of >disturbance in the Symphony as actually leaving or returning >from the Celestial Realm? > >Yes. > >Does the 2 Essence required to change into Celestial form add >to this? > >Yes. Whaaaa? But there are already mechanics for that -- *one* Essence, and no Will roll. It's bad enough that swapping is a force 10 disturbance... [...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:26:58 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> A Few Thoughts.. Immortals + Others Dear Kestral and Andrew (and List) >>Thought #3 >>I don't know how many appreciate the movies and show "Highlander" on >>this list but here is an idea. There has been some mention of offspring >>of celestials. I was thinking about Highlanderish characters in In >>Nomine when it struck me, what if the "Immortals" were of celestial >>heritage. They live forever if left well enough alone, but there are >>those of diabolical heritage that discovered that when an Immortal kills >>another one, their essence is transfered to the victor (in a spectacular >>display). Likewise Immortals present a disturbance in the Symphony that >>can easily be detected by other Immortals or Celestials. Whadya think?? > >Hmm. In Nomine's a primarily religious game. While the Immortals do >have a distant tangent to the Celestials, it is distant. I'm not sure they'd >be as appropriate in IN as they would be in the WoD. There is a conversion of Highlander to World of Darkness rules, and it can be found at http://www.itribe.net/highlander/title_asc.html I tend to think that it would detract from the focus of the gane to have too many other supernatural thingies wandering about. You can get enough mileage out of just the Grigori, without having to bring in Mages, Vampires (more than Soldiers of Hell), Immortals, Werewolves, Faerie, Gypsys and the Descendants of the Living Christ. On the other hand it could get interesting :) . Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:16:43 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Coordinated Oz Dear List I have noticed a few Aussies posting to the list and wondered if they might be interested in setting up a coordinated background. I have a fair idea what major players I want in Sydney and what tethers and where I want them, but am less clear about the Heavenly and Diabolic activiety in other cities/states. I am not going so far as to suggest a completely coordinated campaign, but a little shared background might make things interesting. Drop me a line. Thanking you for you indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 97 22:46:53 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Magic(k) At this point in time, I see no need to introduce a new mechanic to explain magic(k). Songs are songs, and seem like magic(k). Humans who've acquired such skills and abilities will call it Magic(k), Mojo, Psi, The Force... but it's the Symphony they're tapping into. Yes we haven't introduced you to humans who can do Songs besides Soldiers (who can only do Corporeal Songs). That doesn't mean they don't exist. And sorry, but I can't give you more details about them at this time. Peace, Moriah IN NOMINE Line Editor ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 97 22:46:56 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN>Score one for Nybbas >Peter Frederick: >According to extensive customer surveys the Bible is too difficult to read. >In response publishers are preparing to produce a version of the Bible for >today's public aimed at a sixth grade education reading level. One >farsighted publisher is going further to grab a bigger slice of the market >dumbing down the Bible to a reading level of third grade. 'Dumbing down' the text means that, instead of *translating* the text, they will *paraphrase* the text. There are already many paraphrased versions of the Bible, many of which are done for readability and for children. Some paraphrases are a bit wacky. _The Living Bible_ paraphrase of And Abraham hastened into the tent to Sarah, and said, "Make ready quickly three measures of choice flour, knead it, and make cakes. (RSV, Gen 18:6) becomes, And Abraham said, "Quick Sarah, go make some pancakes." (TLB) Often, the paraphrasers own theology (and political ideology) colors the paraphrase. A good paraphrase of the Bible, IMNSHO, is _The Good News Bible_ which was intended for a sixth grade reading level. It is widely used among mainstream Christians in religious education for children (and for adult converts). >This Journal (whose other catch cry is "exposing consensus reality") is a >minefield of the weird, wacky and just plain way out... And obviously dumb, if they don't realize that there are already a score of 'easy to read' bibles out there, include a Reader's Digest version. And please don't mention 'consensus reality' here, we've all decided to leave White Wolf out of our discussion. ;> Peace, Moriah Line Editor for Catholicism ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:51:49 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> re: which is real religion? On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Gregory Littmann wrote: > > Given that Dominic and Laurence favor Christianity and Gabriel and > > (the as-yet unreleased) Khalid favor Islam, both religions are valid > > to the Angels as a whole, though some may not like that. > > > They may be 'valid' in that it may be alright for humans to believe in > them, but both cannot be true. The questions that must be answered are > 1) Which, if either, are true, and in what respects? Why can't they? On what points of theology do Islam and Christianity conflict that can't be chalked up to a matter of perspective and/or symbolic/allegorical interpretation? To quote from the Principia Discordia: "There are lesser truths and there are great truths. The opposite of a lesser truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." > 2) Why on earth do the Angels tollerate falsehood? Why has an angel > never been sent to the pope to set him straight? Perhaps part of why Dominic got so pissy about Yves and Gabriel starting up Islam is that, for the most part, humans aren't supposed to /know/ what the deal is with the world. They're supposed tp puzzle it out for themselves. Sending divine revelations is like giving somebody a cheat book in a video game tournament; they know too much, and it takes away some of the challenge. > Note, by the way, that NEITHER religion can be true as commonly > perceived. After all, neither orthodox Christians nor orthodox Muslims > believe in the sorts of political conflicts in Heaven that In Nomine > posits. Check out the Old Testament some time. The Book of Job is a good place to start. Back when it was written, Satan was still believed to be part of the heavenly hierarchy. (His name means 'the adversary' or 'the accuser'; his role was alot like a prosecutor.) The book revolves around a bet between God and Satan about Job, and whether his devotion do God is as solid as He thinks. So to test his faith, God gives Satan free reign to destroy his life, kill his family, and finally ravage his body with disease, all to see if he would turn against God. The Jews didn't seem to believe in a terribly happy and orderly Kingdom of God. |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:02:48 -0500 (EST) From: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu (Robert Barrett) Subject: Re: IN>Score one for Nybbas Sic scribit Moriah - Steve Jackson Games: > > A good paraphrase of the Bible, IMNSHO, is _The Good News Bible_ which was > intended for a sixth grade reading level. It is widely used among mainstream > Christians in religious education for children (and for adult converts). > I remember the *Good News Bible*. We all received copies of it in either the 2nd or 3rd grade of Sunday School. :) But was it the oversized volume with all the photos of the Holy Land or the regular-looking Bible with the abstract illustrations of Biblical scenes? :) There's also that huge, lushly illustrated 26 volume paraphrase of the Bible aimed at children. You know, the one you tend to find in doctors' and dentists' offices in the South! :) > > version. And please don't mention 'consensus reality' here, we've all > decided to leave White Wolf out of our discussion. ;> > Heh. I will opine, though, that there shouldn't be anything wrong with *clearly-marked* threads about using White Wolf material for *In Nomine* campaigns. Those who don't care for such posts can delete away to their heart's content. Best, Rob - -- Robert W. Barrett, Jr. * E-mail: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu * World Wide Web: http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~rbarrett/index.html * "He ran," the unicorn said. "You must never run from anything immortal. It attracts their attention." - Peter S. Beagle, _The Last Unicorn_, 1968 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #65 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.