From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Mar 11 08:13:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27281; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:13:42 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA25873 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:16:59 -0600 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:16:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199703111416.IAA25873@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #66 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, March 11 1997 Volume 01 : Number 066 In this digest: IN> Immortals and In Nomine IN> New Campaign Page Announcement Re: IN> Immortals and In Nomine IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #65 IN> Ponderables Re: IN> A Few Thoughts.. Immortals + Others Re: IN> re: which is real religion? IN> Religion Re: IN>Score one for Nyb Re: IN> re: which is real religion? Re: IN> Religion RE: IN> re: which is real religion? Re: IN> Religion Re: IN> re: which is real religion? Re: IN> Religion Re: IN> Archangel of Numbers/Math/Physics Re: IN>Score one for Nybbas IN> New Major Demon (long) Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? Re: IN> New Archangel Suggestions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:11:54 -0500 (EST) From: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu (Robert Barrett) Subject: IN> Immortals and In Nomine Just a brief thought on importing Immortals (a la *Highlander*) into *In Nomine*: Could their presence possibly be explained as the (super)natural occurence of souls already bound to their corporeal vessels? Individuals who possess the immortality that mummies bargain away their souls and service to achieve? I'm not sure how the Prize and the Quickening would fit into all this, but I think I'd probably start from this position were I to include immortals in my game. Best, Rob - -- Robert W. Barrett, Jr. * E-mail: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu * World Wide Web: http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~rbarrett/index.html * "He ran," the unicorn said. "You must never run from anything immortal. It attracts their attention." - Peter S. Beagle, _The Last Unicorn_, 1968 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:24:46 -0500 (EST) From: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu (Robert Barrett) Subject: IN> New Campaign Page Announcement I'd like to announce the "opening" of the Web page for the IN campaign I started earlier this evening, "Ministers of Grace." The URL is http://www.english.upenn.edu/~rbarrett/mog.html At present, the page is a little bare, but I'll be putting the PCs online later this week. Session summaries will follow shortly thereafter. I'm not sure if my players have discovered the list yet, so I'll only say this about the main plot: it's going to force me to overlook all of John Karakash's excellent work on angel-human reproduction. :) Or, as the old Latin song begins, "Angelus ad virginem . . ." Best, Rob - -- Robert W. Barrett, Jr. * E-mail: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu * World Wide Web: http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~rbarrett/index.html * "He ran," the unicorn said. "You must never run from anything immortal. It attracts their attention." - Peter S. Beagle, _The Last Unicorn_, 1968 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:30:08 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Immortals and In Nomine At 11:11 PM 10/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >Just a brief thought on importing Immortals (a la *Highlander*) into *In >Nomine*: > >Could their presence possibly be explained as the (super)natural occurence >of souls already bound to their corporeal vessels? *Further insightful post clipped for Brevity* Dear Rob (and List) the ultimate "sleeper agent". Fragments of Heavenly and Diabolic Force incarnated in unborn children and able to tap into their Essence and manipulate the Symphony naturally. Possibly still limited to Corpereal Songs, but with a lot of potential, and if Immortal a lot of time to practise their skills and gain experience. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:47:14 -0500 (EST) From: morpheus@ici.net (anthony medeiros) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #65 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:26:58 +1000 (EST) >From: Peter Frederick >Subject: IN> A Few Thoughts.. Immortals + Others > >Dear Kestral and Andrew (and List) > >>>Thought #3 >>>I don't know how many appreciate the movies and show "Highlander" on >>>this list but here is an idea. There has been some mention of offspring >>>of celestials. I was thinking about Highlanderish characters in In >>>Nomine when it struck me, what if the "Immortals" were of celestial >>>heritage. They live forever if left well enough alone, but there are >>>those of diabolical heritage that discovered that when an Immortal kills >>>another one, their essence is transfered to the victor (in a spectacular >>>display). Likewise Immortals present a disturbance in the Symphony that >>>can easily be detected by other Immortals or Celestials. Whadya think?? I'm way ahead of you my friend. I have devised a system for incorporating Immortals as Children of Grigori. The way I handle it is that the majority of them don't know of their Celestial heritage (nor about the War). They are literally compelled (sort of a Geas) to do battle with each other until, of course, there is only one. The prize can be anything from simple angelic status, be granted Archangel status, anything in-between or none of the above. (I haven't decided what the Prize is exactly yet.) Those Immortals who learn of the War can choose to serve either or neither side. I have a pc Immortal in my campaign who has gained the patronage of Gabriel. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 97 00:53:45 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Ponderables What I'm working on, so, please be patient. 1. Body Hits: Should human BH be figured differently (lower)? 2. Fighting skill problem. 3. Possession: What exactly is the BH and Corporeal Characteristics of the human or animal body possessed by a Kyriotate or Shedim or celestial who sings a Song of Possession? 4. Where the souls are: Where do the celestial forms of Outcasts, Renegades, Heartless, and Grigori celestials go when they run out of vessels? 5. The results of celestials breeding corporeally: One thing for sure, no half-breeds!! Either the child will have a celestial or a human soul. Nothing else. Ever. Don't hold your breath for this one. This will be dealt with in depth with the Grigori cycle *next year*. This year is the celestials and soldiers, be patient for when they bed-wrestle with each other in next year's supps. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 00:35:24 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> A Few Thoughts.. Immortals + Others At 11:26 AM 3/11/97 +1000, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >Dear Kestral and Andrew (and List) That's KestrEl. No 'A', unlike "maim" or "mangle". >>>Thought #3 >>>I don't know how many appreciate the movies and show "Highlander" on >>>this list but here is an idea. There has been some mention of offspring >>>of celestials. I was thinking about Highlanderish characters in In >>>Nomine when it struck me, what if the "Immortals" were of celestial >>>heritage. They live forever if left well enough alone, but there are >>>those of diabolical heritage that discovered that when an Immortal kills >>>another one, their essence is transfered to the victor (in a spectacular >>>display). Likewise Immortals present a disturbance in the Symphony that >>>can easily be detected by other Immortals or Celestials. Whadya think?? >> >>Hmm. In Nomine's a primarily religious game. While the Immortals do >>have a distant tangent to the Celestials, it is distant. I'm not sure they'd >>be as appropriate in IN as they would be in the WoD. > > >There is a conversion of Highlander to World of Darkness rules, and it can >be found at >http://www.itribe.net/highlander/title_asc.html >I tend to think that it would detract from the focus of the gane to have too >many other supernatural thingies wandering about. You can get enough >mileage out of just the Grigori, without having to bring in Mages, Vampires >(more than Soldiers of Hell), Immortals, Werewolves, Faerie, Gypsys and the >Descendants of the Living Christ. I don't know... the Preacher handles Christ's descendants pretty well. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 00:35:43 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> re: which is real religion? At 07:51 PM 3/10/97 -0800, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Gregory Littmann wrote: > >> > Given that Dominic and Laurence favor Christianity and Gabriel and >> > (the as-yet unreleased) Khalid favor Islam, both religions are valid >> > to the Angels as a whole, though some may not like that. >> > >> They may be 'valid' in that it may be alright for humans to believe in >> them, but both cannot be true. The questions that must be answered are >> 1) Which, if either, are true, and in what respects? > >Why can't they? On what points of theology do Islam and Christianity >conflict that can't be chalked up to a matter of perspective and/or >symbolic/allegorical interpretation? There are differences (i.e. the Pillars of Islam are sadly lacking in Christianity). >To quote from the Principia Discordia: "There are lesser truths and there >are great truths. The opposite of a lesser truth is plainly false. The >opposite of a great truth is also true." > >> 2) Why on earth do the Angels tollerate falsehood? Why has an angel >> never been sent to the pope to set him straight? > >Perhaps part of why Dominic got so pissy about Yves and Gabriel starting >up Islam is that, for the most part, humans aren't supposed to /know/ >what the deal is with the world. They're supposed tp puzzle it out for >themselves. Sending divine revelations is like giving somebody a cheat >book in a video game tournament; they know too much, and it takes away >some of the challenge. I think it's because Dominic's a jerk, but there you have it. >> Note, by the way, that NEITHER religion can be true as commonly >> perceived. After all, neither orthodox Christians nor orthodox Muslims >> believe in the sorts of political conflicts in Heaven that In Nomine >> posits. > >Check out the Old Testament some time. The Book of Job is a good place to >start. Back when it was written, Satan was still believed to be part of >the heavenly hierarchy. (His name means 'the adversary' or 'the accuser'; >his role was alot like a prosecutor.) The book revolves around a bet >between God and Satan about Job, and whether his devotion do God is as >solid as He thinks. So to test his faith, God gives Satan free reign to >destroy his life, kill his family, and finally ravage his body with >disease, all to see if he would turn against God. The Jews didn't seem to >believe in a terribly happy and orderly Kingdom of God. Some of the OT was written back when Jehovah was still a pagan god of war in some parthenons. His attitude reflects that. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 97 01:47:09 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Religion What is the True Status of religions in the IN NOMINE world? You'll have to ask God, and God isn't talking. No one, neither human nor celestial knows the exact Truth of whether God spoke directly to Moses, whether an Aspect of God became enfleshed in the person of Jesus, and whether God OK'd Yves' command to Gabriel to recite the Koran to Mohammed. OK, Yves knows the last one, but he isn't talking, either. This means that celestials, who almost all believe in the existence of -- or even *met* -- the One God, are free to choose what they believe in with regard to God's inteventions in human history. In this regard, they're in the same boat with all of humanity... they have to trust in the reports of those humans who've claimed that they've had an encounter with God. And some of those celestials do espouse a belief in one of the monotheistic religions. And religious differences among celestials can be just as touchy as among humans. As far as the Pagan gods go, in the mind of most celestials, they are egomaniacal Ethereal Spirits who've abused humanity so that they can leech Essence from gullible worshippers. The 'gods' tell a different story which you can read in _The Marches_. Peace, Moriah ==== John, please FAQ this. Thanks. -M ==== ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 97 01:47:05 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: IN>Score one for Nyb >Rob: >I remember the *Good News Bible*. We all received copies of it in either >the 2nd or 3rd grade of Sunday School. :) But was it the oversized volume >with all the photos of the Holy Land or the regular-looking Bible with the >abstract illustrations of Biblical scenes? :) Possibly, there's just too many editions to keep track of. >> version. And please don't mention 'consensus reality' here, we've all >> decided to leave White Wolf out of our discussion. ;> > >Heh. I will opine, though, that there shouldn't be anything wrong with >*clearly-marked* threads about using White Wolf material for *In Nomine* >campaigns. Those who don't care for such posts can delete away to their >heart's content. Go to it. Peace, Moriah Distribution: To: INTERNET:IN_NOMINE-L@LISTS.IO.COM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:52:53 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> re: which is real religion? On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Raven wrote: > > On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Gregory Littmann wrote: > > > > Given that Dominic and Laurence favor Christianity and Gabriel and > > > (the as-yet unreleased) Khalid favor Islam, both religions are valid > > > to the Angels as a whole, though some may not like that. > > > > > They may be 'valid' in that it may be alright for humans to believe in > > them, but both cannot be true. The questions that must be answered are > > 1) Which, if either, are true, and in what respects? > > Why can't they? On what points of theology do Islam and Christianity > conflict that can't be chalked up to a matter of perspective and/or > symbolic/allegorical interpretation? Anything may be allegorically true. However, if you take certain points of Islam or Christianity to be allegorical, you are NOT, in the standard sense, a Muslim or a Christian. For example, the divinity of Christ is a pretty important aspect of Christianity, just as the non-divinity of Christ is a pretty important tennet of Islam. We don't have to argue over whether someone can be Christian without believing in the divinity of Christ, or Muslim if they accept the divinity of Christ, though. Suffice to say that the *common* forms of Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive - according to them, Christ was/was not divine in a non-allegorical sense. This is sufficient to ensure that at most one could be true. > > To quote from the Principia Discordia: "There are lesser truths and there > are great truths. The opposite of a lesser truth is plainly false. The > opposite of a great truth is also true." Neither Christianity nor Islam accept the Principia Discordia as cannon. If they are wrong to do so, then they are wrong - and in important ways. > > Perhaps part of why Dominic got so pissy about Yves and Gabriel starting > up Islam is that, for the most part, humans aren't supposed to /know/ > what the deal is with the world. They're supposed tp puzzle it out for > themselves. Sending divine revelations is like giving somebody a cheat > book in a video game tournament; they know too much, and it takes away > some of the challenge. Hm! Interesting idea. > > > Note, by the way, that NEITHER religion can be true as commonly > > perceived. After all, neither orthodox Christians nor orthodox Muslims > > believe in the sorts of political conflicts in Heaven that In Nomine > > posits. > > Check out the Old Testament some time. The Book of Job is a good place to > start. Back when it was written, Satan was still believed to be part of > the heavenly hierarchy. I agree, however, this is NOT accepted by Christians OR Muslims. Both see the rebellion of Satan as occuring prior to these times. For the Muslims, it occured right after the creation of Adam. For the CHristians, it happened before then - hence Satan in the garden. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:59:09 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Religion On 11 Mar 1997, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > > What is the True Status of religions in the IN NOMINE world? > > This means that celestials, who almost all believe in the existence of -- > or even *met* -- the One God, are free to choose what they believe in with > regard to God's inteventions in human history. In this regard, they're in > the same boat with all of humanity... they have to trust in the reports of > those humans who've claimed that they've had an encounter with God. And some > of those celestials do espouse a belief in one of the monotheistic > religions. And religious differences among celestials can be just as touchy > as among humans. > That sounds good. Does it apply equally to the Archangels though? Wouldn't Michael have had enough of a chat with the Almighty to know who Jesus was? At the very least, wouldn't SOME Angel have checked out Jesus 2,000 years ago just to see if the miracles were real, if nothing else. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:03:31 -0600 (CST) From: Corey Subject: RE: IN> re: which is real religion? yeah sorry about that all, my post was meant for religion in the game Swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer -Mike and the Mechanics "SIlent Running" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:22:21 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Religion > This means that celestials, who almost all believe in the existence of -- > or even *met* -- the One God, are free to choose what they believe in with > regard to God's inteventions in human history. In this regard, they're in > the same boat with all of humanity... they have to trust in the reports of > those humans who've claimed that they've had an encounter with God. And some > of those celestials do espouse a belief in one of the monotheistic > religions. And religious differences among celestials can be just as touchy > as among humans. Thank you, Moriah, for this post. I was feeling a little guilty about one response-post that was adamantly opposed to my Archangel of Compassion happily accepting the furthering of his Word by Buddhists. The post essentially was telling me not to cloud the issue too much, and that Buddhism is Heretical from the Divine perspective (within the mechanics of the game). I now get a clearer impression that Celestials, while they may be privy to information that we are not, are still NOT subject to the only Truth out there. For all they know, Buddhists may have a direct-connection to understanding God. Or Zoroastrians. Or Native American Shamanic traditions. Personally, I like the idea of a few celestials who have come to see special insight in the non-standard religions, and who perhaps have a special place in their hearts (wherever they may happen store them...) for non-christian/non-islamic/non-jewish theology. I wonder... just _who_ up there gets a kick out of Navajo spirituality/shamanism... hmm...I know a couple of shamans, and three elders, and I wonder if they'd be willing to talk about gaming... Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com A Master and his Apprentice were walking down the road, when they found a prostitute attempting to cross a stream. The master lifted her up in his arms, and set her down on the other side. The apprentice worried about the impropriety of such an act. When he finally got around to mentioning this to the master, the master replied, "I set her down five miles ago... why are you still carrying her?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:27:21 -0600 (CST) From: Corey Subject: Re: IN> re: which is real religion? okay, well what points do they conflict? they conflict as to the status of Jesus, who mkight be the son of god, or a really kick-ass prophet, and they are divided over the status of Mohammed (sp?) maybe the right hand of god or maybe not?, but I agreeith your major points, I was just curious Swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer -Mike and the Mechanics "SIlent Running" On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Raven wrote: > On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Gregory Littmann wrote: > > > > Given that Dominic and Laurence favor Christianity and Gabriel and > > > (the as-yet unreleased) Khalid favor Islam, both religions are valid > > > to the Angels as a whole, though some may not like that. > > > > > They may be 'valid' in that it may be alright for humans to believe in > > them, but both cannot be true. The questions that must be answered are > > 1) Which, if either, are true, and in what respects? > > Why can't they? On what points of theology do Islam and Christianity > conflict that can't be chalked up to a matter of perspective and/or > symbolic/allegorical interpretation? > > To quote from the Principia Discordia: "There are lesser truths and there > are great truths. The opposite of a lesser truth is plainly false. The > opposite of a great truth is also true." > > > 2) Why on earth do the Angels tollerate falsehood? Why has an angel > > never been sent to the pope to set him straight? > > Perhaps part of why Dominic got so pissy about Yves and Gabriel starting > up Islam is that, for the most part, humans aren't supposed to /know/ > what the deal is with the world. They're supposed tp puzzle it out for > themselves. Sending divine revelations is like giving somebody a cheat > book in a video game tournament; they know too much, and it takes away > some of the challenge. > > > Note, by the way, that NEITHER religion can be true as commonly > > perceived. After all, neither orthodox Christians nor orthodox Muslims > > believe in the sorts of political conflicts in Heaven that In Nomine > > posits. > > Check out the Old Testament some time. The Book of Job is a good place to > start. Back when it was written, Satan was still believed to be part of > the heavenly hierarchy. (His name means 'the adversary' or 'the accuser'; > his role was alot like a prosecutor.) The book revolves around a bet > between God and Satan about Job, and whether his devotion do God is as > solid as He thinks. So to test his faith, God gives Satan free reign to > destroy his life, kill his family, and finally ravage his body with > disease, all to see if he would turn against God. The Jews didn't seem to > believe in a terribly happy and orderly Kingdom of God. > > > |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've > |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, > |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." > | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:36:08 -0600 (CST) From: Corey Subject: Re: IN> Religion id just like to thank Moriah for his answer, its settled the major problem I had with the setting Swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer -Mike and the Mechanics "SIlent Running" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:14:31 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Archangel of Numbers/Math/Physics Bodhi wrote: > > Foucault, Archangel of Numbers [bloody enourmous snip] This is _seriously_ keen stuff, Bodhi. I don't know that I'd ever use it, but it captures just the right feel for IN. I think you need to seriously consider submitting some of your stuff to SJGames and seeing what develops. Well done. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia You're perfect, yes it's true But without me you're only you Your menstruating heart It ain't bleedin' enough for two FAITH NO MORE, "Mid-Life Crisis" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:56:39 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN>Score one for Nybbas Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > > >Peter Frederick: > >According to extensive customer surveys the Bible is too difficult to read. > >In response publishers are preparing to produce a version of the Bible for > >today's public aimed at a sixth grade education reading level. One > >farsighted publisher is going further to grab a bigger slice of the market > >dumbing down the Bible to a reading level of third grade. > > 'Dumbing down' the text means that, instead of *translating* the text, > they will *paraphrase* the text. There are already many paraphrased versions > of the Bible, many of which are done for readability and for children. Some > paraphrases are a bit wacky. _The Living Bible_ paraphrase of > > And Abraham hastened into the tent to Sarah, and said, "Make > ready quickly three measures of choice flour, knead it, and > make cakes. (RSV, Gen 18:6) > > becomes, > > And Abraham said, "Quick Sarah, go make some pancakes." (TLB) > > Often, the paraphrasers own theology (and political ideology) colors the > paraphrase. > > Moriah > Line Editor for Catholicism A quick digression - this from the late, lamented RPG _Underground_, the 'Fully Strapped, Always Packed' supplement, commenting on the various Bibles on the 2021 market. THE KING JAMES BIBLE: The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures. He leadeth me beside still waters. He restoreth my soul... THE LIVING BIBLE: Because the Lord is my shepherd, I have everything I need! He lets me rest in the meadow gress and leads me beside the quiet streams. He restores my failing health. GOOD NEWS E-Z READER (hologram edition): God helps me. ACT-OUT BIBLE: Don't let anyone rock your boat! Maintain. It's all here for you. You have come a long way, and by accepting God's gift of individuality, you will transcend barriers... MacRANEY'S FAMILY FUN BIBLE: Mayor Fat Mac has made MacRaneyland fun for all to enjoy! He allows us to play in the forest of Hot Pies (TM), and splash in the gurgling fountains of Icee-Frostees (TM). He redeems my coupons... UPSCALE (TM) BIBLE: Everything God made is mine for the taking! He's given me high yield monkey market funds for the short term and tax free investments to roll over into IRAs. He provides me junkets... ELMWOOD PARK COMMUNITY BIBLE: Why are you such an ungrateful slob? Look around you, peckerhead! Look at all this good stuff dat God's freakin' given yous. You got the forest preserve to play softball, you got da 7-11 for beer... It makes ya feel good, ya know? GANGBANGER'S GUIDE TO GOD: The Lord is one fly-ass, hustler, gangster, OG, pimp, mutha. Yo, check it out, G! He created the crazy freaks to give me play. He gives me schoolyards and playgrounds to bust caps in. He bails me out when my back's to the mat... NRA HOLY BIBLE: I once spoke to the Lord, after a lunch date with Ava Gardner. I found Him on my private range in San Fernando. He was happy with the way the filming was going, though He was concerned about DeMille's ability to capture the scale and wonder of the Red Sea parting. We chatted for several minutes, and as He popped off a few rounds, he said "Chuck... with one of these .30-.06's you'll never want..." (narrated by Charlton Heston) Actually, this is kinda a long digression. Underground was a way keen game. Thanks to Mitch Gitelman and Ray Winniger for the above. Back to the regularly scheduled list now... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia You're perfect, yes it's true But without me you're only you Your menstruating heart It ain't bleedin' enough for two FAITH NO MORE, "Mid-Life Crisis" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 14:29 CET From: Marco Lambert Subject: IN> New Major Demon (long) Hello everybody, I want to present to you Azima the Duchess of Adultry a cute little Lilim, who wants to be a princess. I am planing to make her a key NPC in my game. The players beeing her servitors or even better some Angels or Demons opposing her grip for power. Please if you have some additions (especially band and servitor attunements) to make, feel free to drop some lines I know she is far from beeing complete, but this is also part of her story. Also sorry for my bad english I hope most of you understand nevertheless what I am trying to say. Bye and Tschuess, Marco. AZIMA, the Duchess of Adultry HISTORY: Once upon a time Andrealphus asked Lilith to make one special Lilim for him, one he could regard as a true follower of his word. Happily she agreed and gained therefor a little favor from him. Azima the Lilim, was created most skillfull and Lilith took pride in her work. Azima then became one of the foremost servitors of Andre. In almost no time she reached the distinction of Baroness and her specialty/word was „seduction“. In this proficiency she reached a capability previously unheard of. But this what not enough for her and so she decided to ask Lilith, if she should free herself from the, until then amable, service to Andre. But Lilith had a better idea. She turned in her old favor with Andrealphus for her beloved Azima and also did some political manouvering, getting by the end a new kind of agreement out of two Demonprinces and therefore giving demons in the future more posibilitys to choose their way. Azima was allowed to get in the service of Malphas, whom she involuntarily had helped allready a lot of times with her work. Now she started to do it by the book and took a new word of „jealousy“, which she was very capable to spread out in the world. Here she also needed only a century or two to raise at the Baroness Level in the Service of Malphas. Now with her basic education fullfilled the plan of Lilith worked out. Azima wanted to be a full Princess. She seduced both of her former Masters to grant her more freedom and even an independent status. Therefore she combined her two previous words to her new word of „Adultry“. This means for her: breaking emotional bonds of Love and Trust between two or more people by the use of seduction of at least one of these people and eventually revealing this action to another person. The two princes did not support her bid for her own princedom, because her word is too close related to theirs, but they agreed to give her independece and the unique rank of Duchesse, including a part of their servitors for her own use. All this has to be confirmed by the infernal bureaucracy, what could take at least another fivehundred years. At our days Azima is very busy to spread her word between the humans and as anybody can see she is very succsessfull. She gained even a little bit of attention from Lucifer, who thinks that this part of the 10 commandments was too long overlooked by the lazy princes. So if she get more succsess there is a strong posibility she may gain later full princess status, well surely only if a final investigation by Asmodeus shows nothing suspicious. HER POWERS: Well, all distinctions, servitor attunements and the Lilim of... attunements from Malphas and Andrealphus. She has also some of the other band attunements from this two princes, perhaps even some which reffer to another band ressonance. Also she gained the „Vampiric Kiss“ attunement from Saminga trading in the geas, that she delivers to him all the souls she gains throu the suicidal deaths directly related to her dooing. For example abandoned and disappointed lovers and so on. She started to develop her own attunements reffered below. HER WEAKNESSES: She has the Discord of „lustful“ at a high level. Also some gesas are still working, especially the one already reffered to Saminga and also one to each of her former princes: Not to do anything against them. (Which leaves in her oppinion much room for interpretation). She also has to live according to the dissonance of both words and now even to a third she develop for herself. DISSONANCE: Every week follower of Azima have to seek out a known happy couple and have to try to break it up ASAP. They have atleast to try it 3 times before they can quite and therefore collect dissonance. This Dissonance will be removed, if the adultry is later successfull commited. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS: - - Chameleon: Choose one person as the victim. First make a perception role to perceive the dream-man / -woman for that victim. The Check digit says how detailed this knowledge is. For example including favourite dishes and drinks and not just the appearance. Then make a will role to change the own appearance to match this dream-person. Higher Check digits result in also changed manners, style attitude and so on. Spending one Essence makes any of these rols a automatic succsess with a check digit of 6. BAND ATTUNEMENTS: - - Balseraphs: With their resonance they force a kind of paranoia on their victim, who will then misinterpret everything regarding their partner in a jealous way, as if he would deceive them. This remains for „check digit“ hours. * - - Djinn: * - - Calabim: * - - Habbalah: For their resonance they gain also the emotions of Lust and Jealousy and for this two they have a automatic succsess whithout the need to role. * - - Lilim: Their Vessel get the full 3 levels of charisma and the seduction skill at 3 without paying for it. * - - Shedim: * - - Impudities: * *: At the moment she still developes this band attunements. Most of the time she just give one from the words Lust and Factions to her servitors, who were anyhow mostly in the service of Malphas and Andre before. This Sevitors have to take the respective dissonance also ! DISTINCTIONS: - - Knight of good manners: This power allows the demon to cover up a social misbehavior, so it will be soon forgiven and forgotten. (This includes not beeing cut from high society in spite of some scandals, but helps not in case of a criminal act like murder). - - Captain of painseeking: With a perception role it is possible to detect the best and fastest way to destroy trust and to raise suspicion and jealousy in the choosen group of persons. The Check digit dive the detail of knowledge and how fast the goal can be achieved. - - Baron of RELATIONS: Allied: Malphas, Andrealphus, Lilith (to some degree) Associated: Nybbas, Kobal Hostile: Baal, Haagenti Enemy: Saminga (This has changed from before and is mostly out of influence from the Allies) BASIC RITES: From Andre: Having ½ a hour sex with a married (or somehow bonded to another person) person. From Malphas: Initiate a coflict between two people who love or trust another. From herself: Persuade someone to adultry without using any of the attunements, distinctions, ressonance, songs or anything else which uses Essence. Each only once per day. CHANCE OF INVOCATION: 4 She is very busy to help all of her servitors, because she wants to further her word as fast as possible, also need not as much time at the moment in hell and has not as much servitors. Also for bigger help she put a geas on the summoner like any other Lilim would do. INVOCATION MODIFIERS: +1: Having red hair +2: A tabloid newspaper with a lot of social rumors +3: Having compromising pictures of someone +4: A divorce certificate with the reason adultry or a broken wedding ring for the same reason +5: Ruin a person by publish an adultry +6: Destroy a complete family (at least 10 persons now bloody enemys or 1 - 2 suicides) because of a scandal ________________________________________________________________ Marco Lambert (Dipl.-Phys.) * Universitaet Kaiserslautern * Email:lambert@rhrk.uni-kl.de Fachbereich Elektrotechnik * Tel.:(+49) 631/205-3354 Lehrstuhl fuer Mikroelektronik * Fax.:(+49) 631/205-3616 Postfach 3049 * D-67653 Kaiserslautern * Geb.: 12 Raum:262 Germany * ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:06:11 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? > > Humans accidentally 'spill' essence, while Celestials > >have more control. > > Right, okay. But I wouldn't think that the Servitors of Creation > would have any less control -- though they might be more likely > to do it deliberately! Oh, I see what you are saying. What I meant was that _Eli_ might contribute a little extra essence during the Rite. ;) Sorta something like, "Here's two essence; one for you and one for your friend." > > What I was thinking was that the essential nature > >of the soul was set at conception. If the soul does not > >have enough time to mature in the Corporeal world, what > >happens to it? My answer was that the soul was > >angelic (the 'hard' part of creating an angel had been > >done) and could grow like any other soul of the sort. > >Having them grow like Relievers is a pretty cool idea, > >I think. > > They may *be* Relievers, if they're killed before they have all > their Forces... Heh. No one has told me yet exactly where _Relievers_ come from. I suppose I should start writing, eh? > I could buy that -- power might be concentratable, perhaps? > A powerful human-grig + a celestial would be more likely to > have a celestial kid than your average human, or even the > average "half-celestial human". Certainly. I'd leave this as a GM-discretion sorta thing rather than put solid numbers on it, but I don't have any problems with it. > I think it was stated that they were excommunicated -- this obviously > applies to their kids... > > (Y'know, if you're taking the stance that they're supposed to be a > "secret undercover force for Good," maybe part of the excommunication > was that their angelic nature would breed true.... Unlike other > angels.) > > (BTW, if the Children of the Grigori are as verboten as the Grigori > themselves, what happens when they show up in Heaven, after death?) [Mere opinion follows... all opinion and only opinion] Argh. I _hate_ that paragraph. Since there are _two_ celestial realms, then you have to pick one. My suggestion (which is being mulled over) is to have a 'neutral' place for non-human souls without a Heart called Limbo that exists in the Far Marches (or perhaps even the Farthest Marches). Limbo is a grim, ugly place, made even grimmer by the wandering spirits desperate for enough essence to rebind their Forces. Not your best vacation spot, no. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:13:20 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> New Archangel Suggestions On Mar 10, 6:55am, Joel Cardella wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> New Archangel Suggestions > > > Keep suggesting ideas your think are neat. Who knows, > > maybe one will Tickle Our Fancy... ;) > > But don't limit yourselves, folks. Not every word-bound > > angel is an Archangel. Nor every word-bound demon a Demon > > Prince. While there are quite a few greater beings on both > > sides not detailed, the angelic/demonic hierarchy isn't > > nearly that topheavy! > > So do Wored-bound Celestials (other than the Hierarchy) have Basic > Rites or Servitor Attunements? Hasn't been decided yet. Since they still _do_ serve an Archangel, logically they should still have the abilities granted by that Superior when in their service... BUT, by being reattuned to their own Word, they should probably lose those and develop new ones. My _guess_ is that: Keep: Servitor Attunements and Distinctions Lose: Band Attunements Gain: New 'band' attunement for one choir, at least one basic rite After that, you work your way up in power, developing new Band attunements that you can pass on to your servitors (ditto for distinctions), new rites and developing your own servitor attunements. This is all NOT Canon, btw! Use at your own risk! Warning, Will Robinson, Warning! (Was that silly robot just a Cherubim with a bad choice of Vessels?) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #66 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.