From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Mar 20 08:29:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA10518; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:28:54 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA07495 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:32:08 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:32:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199703201432.IAA07495@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #82 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, March 20 1997 Volume 01 : Number 082 In this digest: Re: IN> Safe Houses Re: IN> Fundamentalist Manipulation Re: IN> Fundamentalists IN> Patron Saint of the Martial Arts IN> The Angel of Style Re: IN> New Angel (long) Re: IN> New Angel (long) IN> Evil Angel ? Re: IN> Why Lucifer is a Balseraph... Re: IN> Yet another inspiration thought!!!! Re: IN> Working on the Demon of Paranoia..... IN> FAQ - 3/20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 00:01:21 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Safe Houses On Mar 19, 5:44pm, Walter Milliken wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Safe Houses > > 1) How many folks are planning to be at Gen-Con this year? > > Elizabeth and I will be there -- I'm running a bunch of GURPS IOU > games. No In Nomine, though. Maybe next year.... IOU! IOU! IOU! Whoooo! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 00:02:41 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Fundamentalist Manipulation On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Bodhi wrote: > > > > > When one firmly believes that one is doing the Lord's work, one can > do unspeakable things. I couldn't agree more. I would go further and say that most of the greatest evils in the world have been perpotrated by those who believed they were doing right. No-one ever takes mere selfish gain as seriously as an idealist may take their cause. You could do a *great* In Nomine campaign without the demons in fact. You could even do a great In Nomine campaign where demons are now and have always been a myth - or at least, a matter of perspectives as Angels with different viewpoints battle it out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 00:06:31 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Fundamentalists On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Carmen Clemons wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:37:29 -0600 (CST), Thany wrote: > > >Wait a minute. They're a tool of the Diabolicals on God's side? Like a > >plant, or what? > > Maybe they really are on God's side, as either witting or unwitting > Soldiers of Dominic. However, the Diabolicals have learned to use the > fundamentalists' attitudes to further their own agendas. For example, > Thrash is sponsoring a new rock band. Their music suits his needs > perfectly, but no one knows about them. Thrash has a copy of their > album sent to some fundamentalist who has access to the media. Said > fundamentalist loudly goes on record saying this band is the most > satanic thing since AD&D. *grin* The next day, album sales have gone up > a thousand percent, Thrash is walking around Hell with a big grin on > his face, and Melody is tearing her hair out. > Or indeed, *Melody* could be pushing a new rock band. The Diabloicals stir up fundamentalists against modern music, *all* of which is evil in their eyes, and the band gets canned. Imagine how fundamentalists might take to In Nomine! It wouldn't be too hard to see it as the target of a crusade - even if In Nomine were the only game on the market that emphasises characters who do good... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:30:46 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Patron Saint of the Martial Arts Dear List, Not sure if the inspiration for this was Divine or Diabolic, but here it comes I haven't done Stats for St Bruce because it might depend on how powerful you want Saints to be in your campaign. I would peg him at about 10 Forces, and make him one kick ass dude. *** Saint Bruce, Patron Saint of the Martial Arts "Peace to the peaceful." Born in Tibet before the birth of Christ Bruce rose through the ranks of a contemplative mystic order of priests, who studied the harmonious coordination of mind, spirit and body. Achieving Enlightenment Bruce spread a doctrine of self reliance and service to others along with his self defence knowledge. Ascending to Heaven Bruce made the acquaintance of a number of the Archangels and eventually became a servitor of Michael. After another successful Incarnation Michael successfully petitioned the Seraphic Council for Bruce to receive the Patronage of the Martial Arts. Since then Bruce has worked to further the physical, mental and spiritual study of the Martial Arts and to keep them free from Diabolic influence. Although he has had a number of Incarnations he prefers to be called by the christian name of his most recent Incarnation. Now in Heaven again Bruce is quite happy to further his Patronage from the Celestial plane for a while. He is on good terms with many of the Archangels especially Michael, Lawrence, David and Eli, although he is a little cool with Dominic because of his growing persecution of Eli. Bruce is also on good terms with a number of the Bodhisattva, having first ascended to Heaven as one of the Enlightened, and has on occasion negotiated with Michael for them to gain Incarnations on Earth to advance their ideals, his Patronage and Michael's Word. Bruce has two attunements which he can bestow to those he feels have done good work in his cause. He generally favours Soldiers of God and occassionally the Enlightened with these attunements, but a few angels have received them also. One Inch Punch - By spending an Essence the User can generate extra Power for his next successful bare handed attack. This works only with unarmed attacks, but once activated lasts 12 hours or until the User successfully hits something. It adds 3 Power to the attack, 6 if intentionally targeted against an inanimate object. Furious Fists of Kung Fu - By spending an Essence and taking an action the User can perform such a spectacularly outrageous feat of Martial Arts prowess that any one seeing it must make a Will roll to initiate combat against the User. This effect lasts for 5 X [Ethereal Forces of the User] minutes. It is also broken if the circumstances of the confrontation are improved in the favour of the User's attackers; egs they receive reinforcements, one pulls a gun, someone else successfully attacks the User. Bruce also has a distinction he can bestow. Sifu of the Gentle Art - The Sifu can recognise and evaluate the style, experience and skill of any person they observe using any armed or unarmed skill. In game terms this means she knows the Skill Level [and/or chance of success??] of anyone she observes using any non ranged combat skill. Also if the person has received training of a specific rather than general nature the Sifu will be aware of the general details of the training ("Ahh so you have been taught by the Monks of Shan Lung.") and may, at the Ref's discretion, be able to turn that knowledge to some advantge. Bruce has no rites of his own, but can allow servitors of War who use Michael's rite of training combat skills for 4 hours who practise Unarmed Combat to regain an additional Essence. "So I pray to Saint Bruce...." "Saint Who?" "Saint Bruce, the Patron Saint of Martial Arts. I say Saint Bruce send me Victor Sage, and here you are." from The Question published by DC Comics. Apologies to the author who's name has temporarily forsaken my memory. *** Comments and suggestions greatfully accepted. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:33:06 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> The Angel of Style Dear List, Just cause Elizabeth asked for it . No Stats for Olivia just because I haven't got that far in fleshing her out (so to speak), but I would tend to size her as 12 Forces (with a 3/4/5 split) and lots of social and social manipulation skills and Songs. *** Olivia, Mercurian of Eli, The Angel of Style "Chins up, confidence. Now my Darlings give it to me one more time, with _flair_." Olivia is a servitor of Eli and bitter rival of the Demon of Fashion. Her's is the field of personal expressiveness and she has a special affinity with clothing and accessories. Not a major force, and not greatly concerned with becoming one, she spends large amounts of time on Earth putting individuals in touch with their clothing and lifestyle Destiny. "Darling, those tie-dyed flares they're you. Why it's simply Divine." Olivia gets along well with everyone, even though she is regarded poorly by both Dominic (who can not _believe_ her frivolity and distrusts the amount of time she spends on Earth) and Yves (who is disturbed by her assertion that choice of fabrics can effect a person's Destiny). Olivia however doesn't hold this against them "Don't worry Pet, it's just their way." Dissonance - taking the policy of Eli to heart Olivia makes no extra demands on any who chose to be her servitors, "Be Yourselves Darlings, be the best You that You can be." Olivia can bestow two attunements on those who she feels are working to advance the cause of Style. Smooth Operator - By spending an Essence the User can override any social difficulties that their appearance, clothing or manner might normally cause by sheer force of individual personality and style. Ignore any reaction modifiers that might normally reduce the User's chance to make a good impression, and treat the User as if they had an appropriate Savoir Faire skill 3 levels higher than they do. The effect lasts for one social encounter upto 12 hours. Celestials and Soldiers may chose to make a Will Roll to throw off the effects of this attunement. This is also called "What Chicken Suit?" by some servitors of Style. Just try this on for size - With a Perception Roll a servitor of Style can see one minor change that a non Celestial could make to their life that will put them closer to their personal Style, and consequently closer to their Destiny. When first advised the target may chose to make a Will Roll to avoid making the change in their life, otherwise they will at least try it for a week. If the target takes the servitor's advice and adopts the change they will feel a general rise in confidence and self esteem. This attunement can only be used once per month on any individual. Also the changes are only minor and the recipient of the advice might later chose to revert to their old ways, ie this is not a sure fire way to get someone out of their Fate. "Hey buddy! Looking good, but have you considered a floral tie with that suit?" Olivia has only one Rite, but it is double barrelled. For 1 Essence - Spend 3 hours helping someone find that one item of clothing or household nicknak that will help them express their personality and individuality. If you find it get 2 Essence. "When the going gets tough, the tough go Shopping." [Opps does that mean we need a servitor of Marc, The Angel of Shopping .] Chance to Summon Any Servitor of Eli can attempt to summon Olivia, she's a party kinda girl. Base chance d6, reroll every day. If not a servitor of Style -2, minimum of 0. +1 in a shopping mall. +2 if you have a new or interesting piece of clothing or accessory for her. +3 in a secondhand clothing shop. +4 at a fashion show for new original designers. +5 if the summoning character has recently adopted a new style element that genuinely expresses their personality. *** Comments and suggestions will be happily answered, but I am going away for a few days, so see you all when I get back. Take care, May the Goddess Bless you all. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 00:48:43 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> New Angel (long) On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Marco Lambert wrote: > DISCLAIMER: I by no way see any of the inquisitory actions as good. > They were crimes against people with a different believe. > But in IN there is a holy war going on and maybe that justifies > even some torture. Okay... I'm really trying no flame on this topic, but it will be difficult, so forgive me if I sounds more than a little acidic. My intention is not to insult, but to educate. IMHO, there is NO WAY that the Inquisition could have been sponsored in it's height by the angels. If anything celestial infervened, it was the demons who warped it into something cruel and evil, although it wasn't terribly pure to begin with... The Holy Office of Inquisition was formed by the papacy for one purpose: To root out heresy, which is defined as holding religious beliefs that differed from church doctrine. It was never designed to root out evil or corruption (it would've turned on the papacy to quickly if it did that), but to stamp out unpopular opinions. This concept will sounds eerily familiar to anyone who's read 1984. That's what is was meant for. What it was /actually/ going for was much simpler: Money. 'Inquiring' was a lucrative business, especially since all the property of anyone convicted of heresy were siezed by the Holy Office. As such, they tended to target well-off people and groups, especially heretical religious orders such as the Albigensians and the Knights Templar. So, the inquisition was designed to remove threats to the papacy's power, and was used by its members to increase their own personal power. At no point was it a virtuous organization. I could /maybe/, MAYBE see Dom supporting it in its early days, trying to aim its development towards rooting out actual evil as opposed to just unpopular opinions, but it was quickly ripped out of his grasp by either Asmodeus or Mammon (prince of greed, to be included in a supplement I think), or possibly a joint venture by both (either planned, or their motives just happened to coincide). I could see a /demon/ of the inquisition, probably a Balseraph of either of the above princes. But an angel... In theory, he could've gotten the Word while Dom was still hopeful about it, but /I/ wouldn't assign a Word whose virtuous nature was still up for grabs; it's too risky. If he had gotten it, he might as well not have the word at all, with the way the demons have ripped its power from him. OR... Maybe the angel of the Inquisition was assigned to it to make sure the clear temptation of abuse was avoided, and keep it on a divine track. But being on Earth for so long, and being exposed to the lies and half-truths of such high-level politickers and dark-ages thought police, that he wound up Falling... Lucifer grants him the Word again, and he hardly has to lift a finger to bring about one of the greatest evils in history... Bob the Dinosaur Calabite of Kobal Whose Word is Wedgies |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 01:05:37 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> New Angel (long) On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Brian Emord wrote: > Well I think I have found my first angel of Dominic that I like... the > only things that will change as he enters my campaign are: > Medicine: this will be omitted as he will take the churches older view > that once they confess they were guilty of such a DEADLY sin, they were > well put to death, who cares about broken ribs if he is just going to be > strung up. As if the only application is Medicine in healing? You could use it to tell just how much punishment a human body can take before it gives. And you know ways to injure someone that may be painful, horrifying, even crippling, but not lethal. > Healing: Ethereal will stay ("Wake up damn it, you haven't confessed > yet"), but corporeal will have to go, once someone recants and confesses, > he gets the proper absolution and is sent to spend time with God...hehehe The tortures of the body are nothing compared to the tortures of the mind... Torture isn't about pain; it's about fear. Pain can be tolerated. Ever broken a bone? It hurts like hell, but you deal with it after a while. Same thing with torture. Just inflicting pain does nothing. You need to make the person fear you. And healing his mind could do away with that fear you've so carefully built up. To use an example of skillful torture (relax, it's not icky; the guys never even get hurt, amazingly enough): In 'Under Siege 2: Dark Territory', two government employees with mondo security clearance are captured for the access codes they have for a military computer. They were tied, utterly immobile expept for their heads. One of the torturers had a soldering iron. The iron was being moved slowly towards one of the person's eyes, while the other torturer told them exactly what would happen to the eye when the iron made contact. What's more, they were advancing on one with the iron, and asking the /other/ person for the code! It wasn't even pain they were scared of, it was what would happen to their friend. The both of them folded faster than Superman on laundry day, and gave up the code before they were even touched. Not a scratch on them. THAT'S skillful torture. Make them so scared of you they'll do anything, and you never have to lay a hand on them. Bob the Dinosaur Calabite of Kobal Whose Word is Wedgies |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 97 10:43 CET From: Marco Lambert Subject: IN> Evil Angel ? Hello, this is my response to Raven's mail about the inquisition beeing evil. [Sorry for the very large Snip] At first I think for our world you are mostly right. The inquisition was largely evil. BUT a lot of the inquisitors thought not only they were right they also were sure to work for God and the good side. (Look also ongoing discussion about fundamentalism) So I designed this angel as that kind of obedient servant who is very sure about what he is dooing. The fact that the inquisition turned evil (demonic influences ??) did he not realise, BUT the symphony had an eye on it. So while he had done what he sought to be right he gathered a lot of Dissonance and Discord, so he could very likely get some big troubles or even start his fall toward hell, just because he does not looked if the humans did understand his "right" view of inquisition. This angel is about a character who is going to fall but he thinks he had everything done right. With this big number of discords I want to show that he is indeed doing something (not against his word) against the ultimate goal of goodness. Well if you like you could him just push a little further and have him already fallen or atleast he could be in the midst of a inquisition held against him headed by Dominik, Sunya and Yves. Or he is now on parole having alast chance to come back to the good side. As you like it. You could also just forget about him and give us the demon of inquisition. Bye and tschuess , Marco. PS: Torture and Fear: for that reason I gave him his psychology/6 and the intimidation. So he knows all the tricks of the trade. unfortunately. ________________________________________________________________ Marco Lambert (Dipl.-Phys.) * Universitaet Kaiserslautern * Email:lambert@rhrk.uni-kl.de Fachbereich Elektrotechnik * Tel.:(+49) 631/205-3354 Lehrstuhl fuer Mikroelektronik * Fax.:(+49) 631/205-3616 Postfach 3049 * D-67653 Kaiserslautern * Geb.: 12 Raum:262 Germany * ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 07:57:33 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Why Lucifer is a Balseraph... > (I must acquire this song on tape sometime. I wish I'd been listening > close enough to know if they even gave the name... *sigh* Anybody > know enough of the details for me to pick up an old song on tape > somewhere?) "The Devil Went Down to Georgia", by the Charlie Daniels Band You should be able to find it on any of his "Greatest Hits" tapes. There was also a sequal I ran across a few years back, about the same time as there was a rap re-mix of the original on MTV... > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net > GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ Oops da Ogre, the Muppets did a version on "The Muppet Show", too ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:07:44 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Yet another inspiration thought!!!! > But the real question must be, what RPGs do the different Choirs and >Bands play. Ofanim *must* play GURPS - Ofanim are so *flexible*. ;) Yeah, but it's not _fast_ enough. I would think Ofanim would play off-the-cuff homebrews, personally. If a published game system, Over the Edge. Seraphim would play In Nomine -- there are too many lies in other games. ;) Cherubim would play Castle Falkenstein. "I've sworn to protect the Queen, and having given my word of honour, I will do so unto death." Elohim would play GURPS. "Such an interesting design. Simple, yet intricate." Malakim don't play RPGs, but they do play Magic: The Gathering. Kyriotates would each have a completely different preference that depended on their personal perspective... Mercurians would play Amber. Nuff said. -Loki - -- Kirt "Loki" Dankmyer PGP key avail. My opinions are my own. love * Eris * RPGs * Anime * Magick * Carroll * techno * hats * cats * Dada I waked, she fled, and day brought back my night. --Milton ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Working on the Demon of Paranoia..... > Ok folks were here it is coming down to the final touches on the > Word-bound Demon of Paranoia....only one problem...what's his name??? > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!! Hah! You would just _love_ for me to tell you, wouldn't you? Then you'd immediately run back to THEM, and tell THEM the name, so that THEY could perform THEIR obscene rituals to take my Master's power. Hah again! I've cleared out all of the bugs in my apartment and am wearing my plastic wrap hat (don't believe that aluminum foil hat bit, it's just a misleading lie by THEM), so that you can't find me. Mwah-hah-hah-ha!!! That's a tough celestial to name; he's a bit paranoid, after all. (This _is_ Hell, you know.) I would imagine that he tries to keep everyone from knowing his name or even existance. I suppose the name "Friend Computer" is out? I can't think of any good names at the moment, but the "Dictionary of Angels" or "Encyclopedia Cthuliana" would be good places to look... > Hatcher Rhanyr > "The Demon of Running With Scissors" Oops da Ogre, Calabim of Paranoia whose Word is "Security Clearances" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:28:36 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> FAQ - 3/20 - --PART-BOUNDARY=.19703200928.ZM5788.ascc.lucent.com Content-Description: Text Content-Type: text/plain ; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Zm-Decoding-Hint: mimencode -q -u There's quite a few matters being discussed among the high muckity-mucks of In Nomine. Expect to see this FAQ expand fairly quickly for the next few months =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In Nomine FAQ Copyright =A9 by Steve Jackson Games Incorporated. GENERAL QUESTIONS What is In Nomine? In Nomine is a game about the ultimate struggle: between the selfless and the selfish, between good and evil, between God and Lucifer. Ultimately, though, it comes down to angels and demons both trying their damnedest to sway humanity to their side. Annoyingly though, humanity and its precious free will keep spoiling plans of both the diabolical and the divine. In the game, you can play anything from a human just awakened to the Struggle, a Soldier who is a little more powerful and a lot more in the line of fire, an undead creature or, as most do, an angel or demon. Where can I get a copy? Isn't it still being worked on? Not at all! After a lengthy delay (no doubt the work of the Fallen Ones), it is out. The book was primarily delayed to make sure that it was the best possible book that could be produced. It went through extensive playtesting and revision to try to keep the quality top-notch. What is this In Nomine hardback I keep hearing about? The limited hardback version of IN NOMINE will ship to distributors in mid to late March (we're experiencing a printer delay). Suggested retail is $29.95. There are two versions: white pseudo-leather cover with angel cross, and black cover with demonic (inverted) cross -- both with red foil. Contents of both versions are identical to those of the softback. Isn't In Nomine just a translation of the French game by Croc, In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas? More correctly, In Nomine (the SJG version) is an adaptation of Croc's game. The basic concept is very similar, but if there were a true 'translation' of INS/MV into English, the differences would be obvious. There was a direct translation into German for those who are interested. Will there be supplements? Seven supplements are planned for the year after In Nomine's initial release, one of which (the GM's screen) was ready in February. There is a LOT of material waiting to be published, fear not! Even with just the original book, though, you can run many, many adventures in a very complex, highly detailed world. Some of you know it as earth... ;) (Nearly any Bible can make an excellent source of adventuring ideas!) What is the name of that cool headline typeface? SKREETCH CAPS. Is there a GURPS conversion? Yup. Look for it at http://www.io.com/sjgames/in-nomine/gurps/ or you can FTP it from http://www.io.com/~ftp/sjgames/in-nomine/ or you can FTP from ftp.io.com in pub/sjgames/in-nomine/. Is there a mailing list? Indeed there is, and it's quite active! Send a message to in_nomine-l-request@lists.io.com with subscribe in the body of the message. Who's who in In Nomine right now? o The original author of INS/MV is Croc o The publisher is Steve Jackson Games o The designer/author of the SJG version is Derek Pearcy o The line editor is Mike Sullivan (Moriah) o The main netrep is John Karakash o The GURPS conversion is by S. John Ross o The errata coordinator is Hunter Johnson o A notable mention is Jason Newquist who has a delightful In Nomine rules page. He credits many people on that page... check it out! RULES QUESTIONS Angels SERAPHS Can a Seraph of Yves tell that a 'person' is a demon by using their servitor attunement? How about the Word of a Word-bound Celestial? Their choir/band? Yes, but let the check digit determine how much information is given. KYRIOTATES Kyriotates of Jean can inhabit objects, how many Forces does a non-living object have? One Force per object. Can Kyriotates of Jean inhabit any object? Any non-living object within reason except for plants. That's Novalis' area. 'Within reason' depends on the GM, but an entire building or a battleship would probably be out of the question. Does the object have any senses? Each object gets sight, hearing and touch for free, plus any special senses the object might have (e.g. a radio can 'hear' radio waves). Can the object speak? Depends on the object, much like when a Kyriotate inhabits a living vessel. A rock won't have much chance of communicating, a lawn mower could rev its engine suggestively, but a radio or a TV could speak with no problems. Can the object move? Also depends on the object. Anything designed to bend or move will be able to do so. So a door could open and close, a car could drive around, a ball could roll, a puppet could walk around. But, for example, a candlestick couldn't move around on its own since it is inflexible. Certain songs can give movement abilities, however. For example, Numious Corpus: Wings and that toaster Vessel . . . Does possessing the object require a Will roll? Yes. Normally Attunements don't require a roll, but this particular one is an extension of Kyriotate's Resonance which does require one. Can you continuously inhabit the same object? Yes, but remember that if a roll is failed, the possessor is ejected and cannot repossess that object until the proper time has passed. Also intervention will eventually catch up with any Kyriotate foolish enough to try this for any extended period of time! Artifacts CORPOREAL ARTIFACTS How much does a Corporeal Artifact cost? Why should I buy it at higher then Level/1? The cost is 1 point per level and the only reason to get it at a higher level is to make it easier to find. Is the level of the artifact the chance it will 'turn up' at the right time? No. It means that your chance to find your Porsche in a crowded parking lot is easier, not that your Porsche will happen to be in any random parking lot you are in. ETHEREAL ARTIFACTS: TALISMANS Who can use a talisman? Anyone. Why does a Talisman cost 2 points when the matching skill would only cost 1? One point per level is for the skill, and the other is for the attunement to the object. Keep in mind that Talismans can boost skill above 6 and provide an object with which to use certain skills! (Try to use your Large Weapons skill without a large weapon handy...) CELESTIAL ARTIFACTS: RELICS AND RELIQUARIES How much is the cost of a relic/reliquary? The rules were a bit scattered (between p. 42 and p. 71), but here they are. o A Relic costs 3 character points per level o A Reliquary costs 3 character points per level o A Celestial Artifact that is both but the Essence can only be used for Song in the Relic costs 5 character points per level. o A celestial artifact that is both but the Essence can be used for other purposes costs 6 character points per level. Can soliders use relics/reliquaries? Soldiers can use Corporeal Songs in a relic, any normal reliquaries, and reliquaries that power a relic for the use of Corporeal Songs. Celestials What gender are Angels (or Demons for that matter)? Angels don't have an innate gender. They do take on a physical gender while using a Vessel, but the essential nature of an Angel is Celestial. Everything else is just window dressing. Can anyone recognize a Celestial in a Vessel? Even with a Perception roll? No. Celestials have to 'tip their hand' by disturbing the Symphony or exercising powers; but then again, Soldiers do that, too, when they disturb the Symphony... so, in other words, not by sight or Perception. Celestial Forms Can someone disguise while in their Celestial form? (e.g. looking like a Lilim when you are a Balseraph?) or change your shape temporarily or permanently? In Heaven, no. In Hell, perhaps . . . this will be addressed in HEAVEN AND HELL. Character Creation Can a starting character convert character points to attribute points or Forces? If they buy a Force, does this mean their total character points go up? Officially, the purchase of attributes and Forces is not a part of character creation. As always, GMs can make their own ruling on that. And, no, you don't get more points when you raise your Forces! Combat and Damage Hey! Strength gives almost no bonus to damage, but directly increases the chance to hit! What gives? Strength is used for dukin' it out and for large weapons. In the latter case, it's pretty obvious why this statistic was chose. As for the former, in the long run we are talking about a game that is much more superheroic than realistic. In a world like that, it matters little if the strong guy hits a lot of times and the weak guy hits relatively few, the end result is the same: The strong guy does more damage. It's possible that a new skill (Judo perhaps) based on agility will be included for those martial artist types. Those angels are using guns! They certainly are. While Celestials have access to powerful Songs, when they are fighting on the Corporeal plane (i.e. Earth), it makes less Disturbance and is frequently more effective to eliminate their opponent's Vessel using Corporeal means. They'd probably use hand-grenades and rocket-launchers more often if it didn't generate so much noise (in several senses of the word). It seems that even an 'average' human can take a lot of hits. A way to simulate the ability to take out mortals easily is to allow double or triple damage for killing attacks (such as guns) when dealing with normal humans (not celestials, soldiers, saints or the undead). What if someone switches Vessels in the same combat round that they get hit? All things are simultaneous in a round in basic combat. So, both happen, the celestial gets hit and switches vessel (in other words, the original vessel is the one damaged). Whenever that celestial switches back, that celestial will find their body in the condition as if the hit took place. This might mean that the body is unconscious or even dead. In advanced combat, follow the order given on p. 68 or on the GM's screen. In this case, switching Vessels is a supernatural power which happens before getting hit. Remember that each Vessel has their own supply of Body hits, making an alternate Vessel much more attractive a choice! Does physical damage cause pain/shock effects? Yes. Stunning (p. 62) occurs when you take hits of more than 25% of your Body in one round." D666 Why is it that someone with a total skill of 10 and someone with a total skill of 4 have the same chance for a spectacular (6 on the check digit) result? Actually, they don't. The person with a 10 is much more likely to succeed, then get the six on the check digit, while the person with the 4 skill has a hard time succeeding at all! So in this example the first person has a 11 chances out of 72 to get the spectacular result while his unskilled counterpart only has a 2 in 72 chance for the same result. Do I have to use the check digit? What about situations where the check digit wouldn't apply? Except where the rules specifically mention it (and not even then for you gung-ho GMs), the check digit need never be consulted. In most other cases it can just be used for color at the whim of the GM. Ummmm... isn't '666' supposed to be a satanic number of some sort? Yes and no. It was mentioned in the revelation according to Saint John the Divine as the Number of the Beast. If anything, it was a warning as a way to recognize 'the Beast', whomever or whatever it might be. But for this game, it's just a fun way of representing a different dice convention. It couldn't just call it 3d6, and 2d6/d6 doesn't quite the same ring to it. Demons GENERAL Where are those popular demons of legend, the Incubi and Succubi? You can make servants of Andrealphus or Beleth serve this role (or some of the Lilim, of course). At the moment, there are no plans for these to appear in the game as distinct Bands. CALABIM What does it look like to observers when one of the Calabim uses his resonance on an object? It depends on who the fallen angel is working for. The resonance of Belial's demons burns its targets, or appears to - -- neither flame nor heat is actually created, that's just the closest that the Symphony can come to representing the effect. Saminga's Calabim cause materials to rust, rot, shrink away into nothingness. Some other suggestions have been posted on Joel Cardella's page. LILIM The check digit determines the "level" of the desire that someone has, right? Nope. The level of difficulty that the victim would have in granting their own desire. The Lilim doesn't get a selection to choose from, just a desire of the appropriate level. The check digit also reduces the victims Will roll to resist the Lilim's Resonance. How does a Lilim handle two people calling in favors at once? Heh. A very, very clever Lilim would try to work it out, somehow, that both are satisfied. More likely she will experience dissonance and possibly discord from the conflicting favors. Other avenues might include trying to re-negotiate the favor so they don't conflict or asking someone else to help resolve the situation (which might involve yet another favor being issued). How does some collect a Geas from a Lilim? How does a Lilim collect her own Geasa from those who owe her? The holder of the Geas must track down the person to redeem it. Fortunately, the Geas-holder has an Attunement to the person who owes the favor, much like that of a Cherubim. When you want to call in a favor, use a perception roll with the level of the Geas a bonus. If successful, use the Cherub attunement roll Check Digit chart (p. 96) ignoring hazard status -- just for location. If a failure, the Check Digit is the number of hours to wait before trying again. Note that the favor must be redeemed when using this method. It will only work if the Geaser truly wishes to call in the favor. Demon Princes GENERAL The French and German games of INS/MV had Demon Princes for Cold, Ocean and Illness/Plagues. Will they be introduced in forthcoming supplements? The French game-world includes, by now, more than 100 Superiors. Not all will make it into our version. We will be introducing some new ones in supplements, and explaining why some of the others are no longer part of the Symphony . . . " Disturbance Does switching to a Celestial Form cause the same degree of Disturbance in the Symphony as the act of moving between the Celestial and Corporeal Realms? Yes, but see the next question. Remember, that the Essence is paid (and the Disturbance created), only when a successful Will roll is made to change to a Celestial Form. (p. 55) Does the 2 Essence required to change into Celestial form add to the Disturbance? Yes. (p. 54-55) So how much noise does swapping between Corporeal Vessels make? Going from one Corporeal Vessel to another costs one Essence, requires no roll, and makes the same amount of noise as going Celestial. Does a Celestial going to the Celestial Realm cause double the disturbance (once for changing form, and again for leaving)? Yes, although entering doesn't cause double since one enters the Corporeal Realm directly into a vessel. As a general guideline, GMs should always make the Disturbance rules side with celestial powers being as noisy as possible. Celestial powers make celestials hot stuff on earth, but there is always risk involved -- being noticed. The 2 Essence is added since there are times when a celestial doesn't have to spend that Essence, e.g., transforming in a Tether (although, compared to the noise a Tether makes, who would notice?). Falling An angel can become a demon just by rolling badly?! Not at all. If you never generate Dissonance, you cannot fall. Also angels have a 'safety net' of sorts. The first time they 'fall', they become outcasts and can try to regain their former divine status. It's the second time that takes them on that long plunge hellward. Also the odds are astoundingly skewed against falling as long as you have fewer than 5 points of Dissonance. Three points or less can always be converted to Discord, staving off the reckoning for some time. When an Angel falls, I guess his/her celestial appearance changes, but what causes that change? Can it be somewhat controlled? Metaphysics. Angel are creatures whose nature is attuned to some part of the Symphony - their Choir, their Superior, their own Word. By rejecting that nature, their Resonances change... they strike a new chord. Their outward appearance reflects the Resonance of a Dark Angel. It says here that Malakim can't fall at all! Can this be right? Yup. Malakim don't Fall. However, they do gain Dissonance everytime they act dishonorably, especially by breaking one of their oaths. If they succeed on their Dissonance roll, they just get one more note of Dissonance. If they fail a Dissonance roll the first time, they become Outcast (and gain another note of Dissonance). Yes, they can be Outcast. For each time an Outcast Malakite fails a Dissonance roll, they gain another note of Dissonance and a level of Discord. While Malakim can't Fall mechanically, who knows, maybe some day an Outcast Malakite with Dissonance and Discord coming out the wazoo will choose to Fall. For that reason, Outcast Malakim are on the top of Dominic's and Laurence's hit list. As well as on the top of every other Malakite hit list. Good luck! Forces If a character has no Forces, how are the characteristics determined? He has 4 times his Forces in the area, which is zero. So his total attributes are zero in both stats. Hell of a life isn't it? In the case of Remnants, the only reason a stiff Celestial breeze won't just blow such a wretch away is that they are protected by their Corporeal Vessel. Hearts Can a Heart be moved from Heaven to Hell? (e.g. You WANT to fall so you take your Heart from Heaven before Dominic's pals get it and you move it to Hell... I don't say it has to be easy... just want to know if it's possible or completely impossible). Hearts are something your Superior provides so that you have a celestial home. When you Fall/Repent your heart self-destructs since you have broken a metaphysical contact with your Superior, and your Superior no longer supports your heart. You can swipe (or be given) your heart from your Superior and put it anywhere you want, except for the Celestial Realm of the Other Side -- as long as your Superior supports it. Eli gave all his servants their hearts to do with as they please. Beleth and Blandine keep their servants' hearts in their respective towers. When the rules give restrictions about hearts not leaving the Celestial Realms, that's only because the Superior will stop supporting your heart if you go that far (as with the Archangels). BTW, If you swipe your heart, your Superior will be swiping the floor with your downy butt, plus you'll get a note of Dissonance. Also, keep in mind, there is no advantage to having a heart on earth, except for becoming very hard to locate by your Superior (yes, with some Superiors, that's a blessing). Can you have more than one Heart? (e.g. Oooops Dominic got my Heart and kept it locked somewhere to track me and now my Demon Prince made me a new one?) If you can convince more than one Superior that your are their faithful Servitor, sure. Good luck. The Symphony will be happy to accept your disbanded Forces once one of your Superiors find out. Don't forget that a fallen angel's heart shatters... What is the process for creating a Heart? Can an Angel/Demon with his/her own Word create a Heart for him/herself? for another? Or is that the exlusive realm of ArchAngel & Demon Princes? The Latter. There are no rules, the GM makes the call since the mechanics of being a Superior are outside the scope of the PCs. Hearts can't leave the Celestial plane... where are the Hearts of Beleth/Blandine servitors? See above. The hearts of their servants were created in the Marches, and thus, never have the opportunity to leave the Celestial Realm. Obviously, B/B might stop supporting your heart if you (try) to remove it from their Towers. How about a Lilim's heart? Lilim serving a Superior would have a Superior-forged heart in some Principality of Hell. Lilim who are 'free' don't have a heart (grin). They could, if a Superior or Lilith were willing, trade a favor in order to have that Superior create and keep a heart for her. Creating hearts is a heavy Essence expense on the part of a Superior, and they don't do it lightly. This would be 6 levels of Geas for sure. And another 6 levels of Geas in payment to have the Superior 'liberate' her heart and let her put it where she wants. Remnants Why doesn't someone fix all those Remnants? This is a very complex question with a variety of reasons. Depending on who you ask in Heaven or Hell, you will get a different answer. o Not worth the time and effort (this one is popular with demons). It takes an enormous amount of Essence and time to restore such a creature since the most elevated part of the Remnant, the Celestial, Forces, have been destroyed. Most of the time the such a creature might be looked upon as a failure, making the expenditure even less likely. o That angel/demon no longer exists. The being that used to exist has been destroyed. If you managed to give a Celestial Force to a Remnant, what you would have is a new creature that might have some twisted and fragmentary memories of a previous existance. It would not be the same Celestial, however. o They are 'lost'. With no heart and no Celestial Forces, it's very easy for a Remnant to just wander off with no way of finding them. As far as anyone knows, they are just dead. o The attempt simply fails. It happens. They are just broken beyond all repair. Rites GENERAL Some rites seem rather deadly to the performer. For example, how can angels of Jean perform the 'two hours plugged into the mains' ritual? How come Belial's servants have to already be immune to fire to perform his 250-degree ritual? The performance of the Rite itself grants immunity during the duration of the Rite unless the rite specifically specifies otherwise. Roles How do humans buy Roles? The rules on p. 72 seem to be wrong. They are indeed inconsistent; please use the following (some repeated from p. 43): Humans don't buy a Role. They can buy levels of Status/x at the cost of [(Status - 1) * 2] with the first level of Status being automatically added for free. In other words, each level of Status beyond the free one costs two points. The cost of a Role for Celestials is the [(Role's Status * Role's Level) / 2], rounded up if necessary. Can a Celestial in an animal vessel have a Role? Yes, and the cost is the same for human Roles. It is very hard to justify a Role above Status/1 however! Remember that Roles are based on how much reality and influence you have in human society. Soldiers Who do soldiers serve? And what powers do they gain thereby? Two different parts of the text (p. 32 and p. 190) seem to have conflicting ideas about this. Soldiers serve a side -- Heaven or Hell. They are directly supervised by a Superior's Servitor. It is possible for a Soldier to receive the Servitor Attunements of the Superior they are serving under (directly or indirectly). So they could directly serve Joe the Angel, but get Joe's Superior's attunements. Laurence is charged with coordinating the Soldiers of God on earth. He makes his Servitor Attunements available to them (regardless of who else they may serve or whatever religion they may be). Does this give the soldiers of God and edge? Well, yes, but they need it since they are rather outnumbered. Does a soldier using a Song cause a Disturbance? All focused Essence expenditures cause Disturbance, though the source is unrecognizeable as angelic, demonic or human. The default use of Essence by untrained humans does not cause a disturbance. Songs CLAWS Why are higher levels of this Song less accurate than lower levels? It has to do with the length. The longer claws do much more damage, but are unwieldy, hence the lower accuracy. You can always use the smaller claws if you want a better chance to hit and are willing to have reduced damage. NUMIOUS CORPUS Is this one Song or many? Do I have to buy them all? Each feature under Numious Corpus is a seperate Song and must be paid for individually. What is the degree of Disturbance for this Song? Beyond the Essence required, none. If you switch Vessels, can you still make the enhancements appear and disappear within the duration of the Song? Yes. Words What kinds of Words are there? Vices, virtues, ideas, ideologies, causes, things of the world. There will be in an upcoming supplement, an outline of Words that have been compiled based on Scholastic/Aristotelian theo/philosophy. Archangels and Princes seem to have much shorter names, is this because they are more powerful? No, cooler. They got the world to call their abstract causes by one Word. Sort of like Cher. Do words get shorter (and more abstract) as the celestials influence increases? Possibly, but not necessarily. Celestials don't lightly change Words. They're more likely to be stripped of a Word than to change it. The Word you first get is you. You are uniquely tuned to it. To try to change it on your own goes against nature. You must promote the Word which is yours, not shop around for cooler one. BACKGROUND QUESTIONS Are there more Angels or Demons? Lucifer's Forces were originally outnumberd 2 to 1 in the War and, one must presume, he lost more of his host than God did. Afterwards, though, he started creating new demons as fast as he could, as described on p. 155. The current situation seems to be that there are more demons than angels, but demons are generally weaker. Notice how scared the demon was in A Dark Dream when he heard an angel was in town? This is how a vast number of the infernal hordes feel about the average angel. If demons can't enter Heaven, but angels can go into Hell, why haven't all the angels gotten together and gone and kicked the demons' collective butts? Good question. And one that is asked at the highest levels of the angelic hierarchy (and the middle levels and probably all the way down to the bottom)! One answer is that fighting someone on their home territory, especially masters of deception and lies, is probably a bad idea tactically. Another answer is that they might lose the very thing they were fighting over: the souls of all those humans. Some Celestials (on either side) don't give a hoot about humanity, but a whole lot do. And The Boss seems to care a great deal. Undoubtably, such a fight would have major consequences on those that inhabit the earth. Good and Evil aren't really mentioned in the book, what is all the fuss about then? (i.e. Why are the Angels and Devils fighting?) Angels are trying to follow God's plan to the best of their flawed perceptions. Demons are trying to chart their own course of selfishness which means, nearly by default, they have to work for Hell (the rebel's rebels are quickly hunted down and, at best, killed). Are angels and demons the hidden masters of a helpless humanity? Is this another 'humans are helpless pawn of unknowable forces' game? Hardly! The celestials (on either side), are doing their best to influence humanity toward their way of thinking, but most of their efforts are spent combating each other. Humanity with its wonderful free will can choose their own Destiny... or Fate. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Steve Jackson Games * In Nomine - -- = ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ - --PART-BOUNDARY=.19703200928.ZM5788.ascc.lucent.com-- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #82 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.