From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Mar 28 01:14:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29014; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:14:16 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA31617 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:17:33 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:17:33 -0600 Message-Id: <199703280717.BAA31617@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #93 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, March 28 1997 Volume 01 : Number 093 In this digest: IN> Fate and Destiny; was Disturbing the Symphony Re: IN> The Crow Re: IN> The Crow Re: IN> Celestials and Experience Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Disturbing the Symphony Re: IN> Celestials and Experience Re: IN> The Crow Re: IN> Celestials and Experience Re: IN> Where is Purity now?? IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #92 Re: IN> Celestials and Experience Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... IN> Making noise Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Making noise Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... IN> Re: In Nominee Question IN> Language: Heavenly/Demonic Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... IN> Message. IN> Easter Re: IN> Language: Heavenly/Demonic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:43:09 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: IN> Fate and Destiny; was Disturbing the Symphony On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:12:49 +0000, "Bodhi" wrote: >... and if you never lean one way or the other, if you never really >dedicate yourself to learning one type of Answer, you basically slip >through this lifetime as one of the "boggled and the botched", and >merely get re-incarnated again to see if you can make something of >yourlself the next time around! > >Does this make sense to anybody else? It's a good expansion of the sidebar on page 67. I think one of the best things about In Nomine is its philosophic neutrality which tends to prompt all sorts of interesting theological musings. The last couple sentences of the sidebar kind of blows the neutrality, essentially saying the vast majority of people--who are neither the best nor the worst they can be--will see neither heaven nor hell. It also eliminates many of the main Christian schools of thought, for examples: Infinite Forgiveness: As long as you're sorry for anything bad you've done (maybe even if you're sorry you met your Fate), you go to heaven. Toe the Line: If you ever once sin, you go to hell. Period. Balance Sheet: If you do more good than bad, you go to heaven. Personally, I'd rewrite the last two sentences to, "Those who do both, or who manage to do neither, may go to heaven or hell, or be reincarnated or disbanded at His option. Or they may be recruited by an Archangel or a Prince." I think this offers more interesting game play. I see Dominic as toe-the-line. Eli would be more like, "You're dead--bummer. Hey! Want to be an Angel? Cool." Marc would be, "Kicked a dog at age 5--debit; helped an old lady across the street as a boy scout--credit..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:49:51 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> The Crow Dear Rob (and List) **Massive snip, for brevity only** >There you have it. "The Crow" now done for In Nomine fans. You nailed it for me, and I kinda liked the first movie . And I agree it is of limited usefulness, could be intersting to raise party conflict err robust discussion .. errrr full and frank exchange of views. Ahh don't you love being a Ref :) . >Good. That's over with. Now I can get back to some more original >stuff. Blech!!! Thanks for your indulgence. Post it all, Post it all. . Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:36:22 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> The Crow > Dear Rob (and List) > > **Massive snip, for brevity only** > >There you have it. "The Crow" now done for In Nomine fans. > > You nailed it for me, and I kinda liked the first movie stop that :) Oh, now don't get me wrong... I LIKED the first movie, if for nothing other than entertainment value. As a matter of fact, my University offers a film studies class in which The Crow is studied as a literary piece, and is definitely found to contain some redeeming features... I even agree with the literary logic behind the analysis. I DIDN'T like the second movie. ... and I HATE the fact that, for some strange reason, I felt the need to pirate an idea rather than create one on my own. However, it just kept going around inside my head, so I felt I'd do a quick-and-dirty job and get rid of it. Who knows, ...if I'm REALLY desparate for a gaming idea (not that that happens that often...), or my players need a break from the usual kind of stuff we do, I may even use this myself. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Nicholas Copernicus, Master Astronomer Stood up and Shouted, addressing the throng, "Abandon poor Ptolomy, Stand up and follow me, Heliocentrically, Ptolomy's Wrong!!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:45:12 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Celestials and Experience > as far as I can see a Celestial's Superior can give and take away > Attunements and Artifacts at their whim, even if the Attunement or Artifact > was bought by the Player with their experience points. SNIP > Is there any limit to this? > > Can Superiors strip their Servitors of Forces? Songs? Roles? Servants? > Skills? Vessels? I think Forces, Songs, Roles, Servants, Skills, and Vesselss belong to the "Individual", while Attunements and Artifacts, which must be purchased through the intervention of a Superior, can be taken away if that Superior feels you're not living up to your potential. > What can Outcasts and Renegades legitimately spend experience on as >they no longer are part of this arrangement? And do they risk >losing all those things that their Superior could take off them if >they were still a Servitor? Well, following my previous list, you're safe so long as you learn skills or songs, because that knowledge can't be stripped from you. If you spend the time/effort/experience developing a role, that's yours too. So long as your vessel isn't destroyed, it exists as one of your posessions. These things are "off limits" from your ex-Superior. However, attunements and artifacts are probably going to be revoked!! Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Nicholas Copernicus, Master Astronomer Stood up and Shouted, addressing the throng, "Abandon poor Ptolomy, Stand up and follow me, Heliocentrically, Ptolomy's Wrong!!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:56:34 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Roles I think that the role simply covers your TRUE nature, but doesn't FORGIVE your actions. Instead, it simply convinces people that your actions were performed by a MORTAL, and not by a Celestial/Diabolical. This DOESN'T mean that your actions go unnoticed... it only means that your actions are believed to have resulted from a MORTAL. People think you're a mortal, and have no reason to believe otherwise. Exactly how they treat you, as a mortal, might be different!!! > Just had a thought today about Roles. > "I use my Song of Healing on the wounded bystander." > "The disruption to the Symphony could attract whoever injured him." > "But I'll get to try to avoid it with my FaithHealer Role." Sure, you can take a role like this. A role simply means that people don't attribute your actions to non-mortal status. It DOESN'T mean that they think your actions are "normal". Normal people don't often get involved in car chases and kill somebody (from the private detective example in the book). Thus, your ROLE will only cover your non-mortal status, but it won't hide the fact that you did something non-normal for a mortal. Thus, in this example, you'd be seen as a mortal with "supernatural" powers. Probably any Celestial/Diabolical is gonna' see you as a mortal who knows Songs, rather than a Celestial/Diabolical. > How weird a role can you have? How about I take "Prophet of the Lord". It > will be low status, because Prophets are never respected in their own time > and country, and therefore not too expensive to take at a good level. You > don't need any skills that I can think of and it is great for almost any > Song or manifestation of power. > "You just walked across that lake?" > "Yeah I'm a Prophet of the Lord don't you know." > "Oh well that's all right then." Again, you'll be seen as a power figure. However, this will just hide your non-mortal status. You'll be seen as a very powerful mortal, probably knowing quite a few Songs and able to perform "miracles". NOT a low-status job... instead, your status is probably going to be fairly HIGH. This would be a bloody expensive role, as far as I'm concerned, because if Celestial/Diabolicals think that you're NOT a mortal, yet know you can do these things, they'll KNOW that you've gotta be a non-mortal!!! Thus, a believable role of this nature would have a staggeringly expensive cost!!! Indeed, if a certain Nazarene was indeed an angel who made people think that he was "merely" a mortal and not a Celestial, then his role was believable, but in the end, what did it get him? His treatment, though everybody believed him to be mortal, wound up being fairly harsh, don't you think? > How about a Psycho Slasher? > "You just slaughtered those four innocent people with a fire axe!!" > "Yeah, but I'm a certified pschotic." > "Oh well that must be all right then." That's right... you kill people, but you're a psychotic MORTAL, so they don't think that you're a Celestial. To be believable, however, you'll probably wind up being locked up, more-or-less permanently, once your "psychotic slasher" role is believed by somebody in any sort of power. This would, therefore, not be a very helpful LONGTERM role, but as a short-term role, in which you simply wanted to make people believe that your most recent killing spree didn't indicate Celestial/Diabolical nature, but rather merely a psychotic human nature, this could be quite useful. Immediately after you convinced them that you WERE a nutso mortal, you'd be locked away, permanently. > Space Alien and New Age Mystic are similarly good for stuff, but perhaps not > as direct. Again, use your discretion. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Nicholas Copernicus, Master Astronomer Stood up and Shouted, addressing the throng, "Abandon poor Ptolomy, Stand up and follow me, Heliocentrically, Ptolomy's Wrong!!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:56:17 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Disturbing the Symphony > Next question...Of those ordinary mortals, ignorant of the war, what stats > would you give to a typical policeman, and typical fireman? Well, they each have five forces (with the very rare six forcer who is either a soldier or will be recruited Real Soon Now). Call it Corp/2, Eth/2, Cel/1 for most of them. Some, like detectives, will have a point shifted from Corp to Cel to bump up that perception. Really macho guys might have one shifted from Eth to Corp. Inside of Corp, the stats can go either way. Nothing less than 3, though. Inside of Eth, lean toward intelligence for detectives, investigators and office people. Toward precision for beat cops and active firemen. Inside of Cel, it's a matter of choice except for investigative types. Here's some examples: Joe the Cop Bob the Detective - ----------- ----------------- Corp/2, Str/3, Agil/5 Corp/1, Str/2, Agil/2 Eth/2, Int/3, Prec/5 Eth/2, Int/5, Prec/3 Cel/1, Will/2, Perc/2 Cel/2, Wil/3, Perc/5 Rick the Fireman - ---------------- Corp/2, Str/4, Agil/4 Eth/1, Int/2, Prec/2 Cel/2, Will/4, Perc/4 Okay, Joe is a typical beat cop. He probably is decent with his gun, has a high Savoire-Faire (local people/criminals) and will probably end up pushing papers when he starts slowing down. Bob probably barely made it through basic and his turns as a beat cop. But his late hours studying, his attention to detail (high perception) eventually was noticed and he was promoted to Detective. With luck, Bob might make Captain one day, or perhaps retire from the force to become a private investigator. Rick is pretty much a gung-ho fireman. Not too introspective, perhaps, but he's good at his job: adroit, able to carry heavy equipment into a fire, and victims back out, brave (high Will) and with a good eye for potential hazards. > Also regarding fate and destiny. Is a mortals fate fixed or ever changing? If > it is my fate to be a political lunatic who touches off a war, then is it a > given war or just any war that's handy? If I die and don't achieve fate or > destiny, then if I reincarnate will it be the same or can it change? Say > something happens to make achieving my destiny impossible, do I get a new > destiny? or am I eternally screwed? Just because someone doesn't mean their destiny doesn't mean they can't have a rich, fulfilling life! And, yes, it can be the case that someone could miss out on their one chance at a destiny or fate. Some people might have more chances than others. Some people have both a fate and a destiny. Sometimes, in very, very rare cases, the fate and destiny are not mutually exclusive. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:03:51 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Celestials and Experience On Mar 27, 8:02pm, Peter Frederick wrote: > Subject: IN> Celestials and Experience > Dear List > > as far as I can see a Celestial's Superior can give and take away > Attunements and Artifacts at their whim, even if the Attunement or Artifact > was bought by the Player with their experience points. I can see a logic in > this because anything that the Players buy is really with the approval of > the person whom that power comes from. You can't force an Archangel to give > you one of her Servitor Attunments or stop her taking it back if she really > wants to. > > Is there any limit to this? > > Can Superiors strip their Servitors of Forces? Songs? Roles? Servants? > Skills? Vessels? Yup. It's a matter of power. And Archangels have a LOT of power. They can create and they can destroy. Many servitors meekly submit to such chatisement. (the mechanics of the 'stripping' of each would be different. Roles are part of the Symphony and would have to be destroyed in ways that work in the Symphony. Servants can be freed, Songs and Skills can be burned out, etc.) Others rebel. Note that a superior would not take a hasty or permanent action without good reason. In the intro story we see an example of a Superior giving back something previously taken (the itty- bitty gun). Demon Princes are likely to just kill a servitor that has gotten too powerful, however. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:11:58 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Crow I've never seen either of the "Crow" movies, but the general mechanics and concept of Revenant strike me as a useful plot device, and very true to the general mythology of ghosts in many cultures. As a possible add-on, besides vengence, ghosts may also come back to do penance. This has more complex characterization, since the ghost is a good enough person to want to make restitution, but a bad enough person to have done something that really *needs* restitution. Finally, there is a rather widespread folklore motif in which a Poor But Honest (tm) protagonist gives a decent burial to a neglected corpse, or otherwise aids a chance-met stranger, and then meets a strange benefactor who guides him through strange perils to great good fortune. The benefactor, of course, turns out to be the ghost of the corpse or the chance-met stranger who was a disguised ghost on a mission of penance or revenge. Since the folklorists' name for this general plot is "The Grateful Dead," it clearly fits in with the musical motif of the game... [ducks to avoid flying rotten vegetables] Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:49:42 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Celestials and Experience > > > > Can Superiors strip their Servitors of Forces? Songs? Roles? Servants? > > Skills? Vessels? > > Yup. It's a matter of power. And Archangels have a LOT > of power. SNIP Oops... looks like my previous interpretation was WAAAYYY off. Thanks for the ruling!!! Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Nicholas Copernicus, Master Astronomer Stood up and Shouted, addressing the throng, "Abandon poor Ptolomy, Stand up and follow me, Heliocentrically, Ptolomy's Wrong!!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:19:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Where is Purity now?? On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Peter Frederick wrote: > What happened to Purity and it's Angels after Uriel was removed from office. > A few things have suggested themselves to me and I would be interested to > hear what others think. I'm of the opinion that Uriel was not removed to office. Rather, he was recalled to the upper levels of Heaven. Some angels interpret that as a punishment for his actions. Others said "Well, maybe he just completed his work, and didn't need to be down here anymore." Thus, Purity's Word is still in Uriel's hands. Its management on Earth has passed on, though. Different aspects of Purity would be handled by Archangels like Dominic and Laurence. Uriel's surviving Servitors were probably divied up between these other Archangels. In theory, Uriel still is managing Purity, on a "higher plane". Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Web Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:09:29 -0600 (CST) From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #92 In regards to Vagarog, Prince of Recklessness: > It looks very nice, Rogue, but I have just one problem; your >demon used to work for Vapula and is a Calabim. Now don't get me wrong, >calabim are probably my favorite Band, but the book says that none are >allowed to work under Vapula. In my initial read, I didn't notice a >justification of why this Calabim would be allowed by Arch-Nerd of Hell. >Sorry to nitpick, but otherwise it's a good job. No problem. I thought long and hard about that, and if you look closely, I left a back door. ;) "His former master, Vapula, deeply resents Vagarog's success. The Prince of Technology, remembering the fate of the Prince Of Sloth (mmmmmmmmmmm.... Sloth.....) is now worried about payback attempts. Vagarog's success is one of the reasons Vapula banned Calabim from his service. " I know this to be a cheesy trick, but it sure is convenient! Thanks for the feedback, Oops! Now, back to work on Idcom, Demon of Video Games! Hehehehehe... - -Rogue, He Who Runs Red Lights, Impudite Master of.... AAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! I forgot to post Vagarog's Distinctions, didn't I!?!?!!?! AND his Dissonance! AND his quote!!!! Doh!!!!! I swear, no more typing after that fourth bottle of Old Uncle Benjamin's Very Bizarre! OK, OK, last minute addendum: Distinctions for Vagarog, Demon Prince Of Recklessness Knight of Chances- These demons are automatically granted their choice of the following skills: Acrobatics/6, Driving/6, Escape/6, Throwing/6. Captain of Stunts- Captains of Vagarog gain ALL of the skills listed for his Knights. Duke Of Daredevils- Always one to be different, Vagarog changed the title of his highest Distinction (hear Asmodeus' teeth grinding?). The vessels of these Demons are nearly impossible to take down. Unless the damage comes from a Song or Celestial Relic, they can be hurt, but never killed, by any Body hits taken! Think of Wile. E. Coyote.... slow 'im down, sure, but never stop him! Dissonance- It is dissonant gfor any servant of Vagarog to discourage anyone from a reckless course of action. They must also, at least once per day, encourage someone to act recklessly, or suffer a point of dissonance. The dissonance disapears when the demon gets 'caught up.' Vagarog's preferred appearance (boy, I DID forget a lot of stuff!): Vagarog generally appears as a teenage human male, with long hair and a leather jacket. Think James Dean. And finally, his quote: "The world is really messed up. Live fast, die young, then come visit me. " ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:06:54 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Celestials and Experience On Mar 27, 7:49am, Bodhi wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Celestials and Experience > > > > > > Can Superiors strip their Servitors of Forces? Songs? Roles? Servants? > > > Skills? Vessels? > > > > Yup. It's a matter of power. And Archangels have a LOT > > of power. > SNIP > > Oops... looks like my previous interpretation was WAAAYYY off. > Thanks for the ruling!!! No prob. Here are some details for servitor reduction: ;) Forces: burn it out Songs: ditto Skills: ditto Roles: has to be through the Symphony Servants: either 'free' them directly or destroy them Vessels: can be destroyed either while active or by the power of the Superior Note that the first three and the Vessel burnout are pretty traumatic and a drastic step for any superior to take. They are basically grabbing the Celestial by his Forces and roughly cutting out anything they want removed. Ugly. Fine control is quite difficult, so a Superior can't make a perfect servant by either building or editing. This is purely a GM's perogative, so there probably will never be any rules for it, but it is likely that a Celestial subjected to such a 'surgery' will become traumatized. The servitor will probably be extraordinarily pissed and resentful and it will undoubtably have political impacts with the other Servitors or peers of that Superior. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:31:26 -0500 (EST) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... In a message dated 97-03-27 02:22:20 EST, Rob wrote: << Myself, I'd give them five forces. They tend to see a lot of life, and learn quite a few lessons, even if these lessons are subconscious. Their dedication to their work gives them a lot of character in my books... I'd say 5 forces is good. (suggestion... 3 corporeal, 1 ethereal, 1 celestial... they're known for being physical types, with just enough smarts to do their job well, and enough spirit to be highly dedicated). >> Yes indeed, very good. That would give the average policeman STR:6 AGIL:6 which is certainly more than adequate to do justice. *BUT* that would also mean an stats of 2 or lower for the others...you could raise a stat to 3 by lowering another to 1. According to the chart on page 35 that means their stats are poor or miserable. I tend to see firemen's stats (not forces!) as 3 to 5's. You see what I'm driving at? I also wanted to say that was a very good reply on the topic of destiny and fate! - -Calabim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:36:02 -0600 (CST) From: Russ Collins Subject: IN> Making noise > >Which leads me to a few questions. Does an angel generate disturbance by > >attacking Soldiers? > > Not just angels, either side. Soldiers are humans (which is why *their* > actions don't cause noise), so I'd assume any celestial harming them > would generate noise. > What about undead -- mummies or the like? Do they still count as humans as far as when an angel destroys them? Russ Collins rgc@io.com "First you get down on your knees, Fiddle with your rosaries, Bow your head with great respect And genuflect! Genuflect! Genuflect!" Tom Lehrer, "The Vatican Rag" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:39:10 -0500 (EST) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Roles In a message dated 97-03-27 04:01:49 EST, Peter wrote: << How about a Psycho Slasher? "You just slaughtered those four innocent people with a fire axe!!" "Yeah, but I'm a certified pschotic." "Oh well that must be all right then." >> Ahem. Sir. It is a geat honor and priviledge to inform you that you really, really warped. Please keep up the good work! :-) Thing is, I think *might* allow it. Of course I hope those four "innocents" are on the enemies side (depending on what you are). It may not make much noise but it sure must be dissonant! Hooo boy... - -Calabim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:21:03 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Making noise At 11:36 AM -0600 3/27/97, Russ Collins wrote: >> >Which leads me to a few questions. Does an angel generate disturbance by >> >attacking Soldiers? >> >> Not just angels, either side. Soldiers are humans (which is why *their* >> actions don't cause noise), so I'd assume any celestial harming them >> would generate noise. >> >What about undead -- mummies or the like? Do they still count as humans as >far as when an angel destroys them? I doubt it, myself. They've been removed from the Natural Order of the Symphony, they're subject to things like ... angels. "Angels." "*Angels.*" "*ANGELS!!!*" - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:19:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... At 12:31 PM -0500 3/27/97, Calabim@aol.com wrote: >Yes indeed, very good. That would give the average policeman STR:6 AGIL:6 >which is certainly more than adequate to do justice. *BUT* that would also >mean an stats of 2 or lower for the others...you could raise a stat to 3 by >lowering another to 1. According to the chart on page 35 that means their >stats are poor or miserable. I tend to see firemen's stats (not forces!) as 3 >to 5's. You see what I'm driving at? Maybe they bought some extra stats with experience? (Put some limit on the *value* of stats that can be taken before an extra Force is bought, maybe?) Call them "evolved characters" and don't let it bog you down... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:48:17 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... On Mar 27, 2:19pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Subject: Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... > At 12:31 PM -0500 3/27/97, Calabim@aol.com wrote: > > >Yes indeed, very good. That would give the average policeman STR:6 AGIL:6 > >which is certainly more than adequate to do justice. *BUT* that would also > >mean an stats of 2 or lower for the others...you could raise a stat to 3 by > >lowering another to 1. According to the chart on page 35 that means their > >stats are poor or miserable. I tend to see firemen's stats (not forces!) as 3 > >to 5's. You see what I'm driving at? > > Maybe they bought some extra stats with experience? (Put some limit > on the *value* of stats that can be taken before an extra Force > is bought, maybe?) Call them "evolved characters" and don't let it > bog you down... That's true. Just by the rules you can get up to 3 points in any area before the Force gets bumped up. So you could, theoretically, have a character with 9 points of extra attributes without gaining an extra force. More than enough to get at least average in all stats, yet be well above average in select areas. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:36:16 -0500 From: Archangel Beth Subject: IN> Re: In Nominee Question Charles Sumner wrote: > > A couple of questions relating to Blandine... > 1) Would a Cherubim of Blandine's natural resonnance tell it if the >subject of the attunment was awake or asleep as part of the "general >condition"? Would a good check digit also let it know if the subject >was in Blandine or Beleth's realm? I'd put it the other way around -- general condition: relaxed or fearful, and a higher one would get sleeping (with the general condition as a clue to which realm the sleeper was in). Though that might just be for any old Cherub -- it does seem logical that Cherubim of Dream would have "sleeping or not" as a "bennie." >2) Servants of Blandine suffere dissonance for taking their celestial >form in the mundane world. Does this include the process of swithing >to celestial form before returning to Heaven? Quite possibly. I'd negate that at a Tether, though. Good question. I'll have to go annoy the In Nomine mailing list with it. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:39:27 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Language: Heavenly/Demonic Okay, Demons can speak their twisted celestial tongue while in vessels (p. 187, box), and while they can speak the original angelic language, angels don't know the demonic tongue... Is this applicable for all demons? ("You grew up as an imp down here, but you're gonna *learn* the Angelic!") Does this apply to Redeemed? ("Well, I used to speak Demon, but it got scrubbed out of my head..." or "Gonna wash that language right outa my haid...") - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:39:25 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... > > >Yes indeed, very good. That would give the average policeman STR:6 AGIL:6 > > >which is certainly more than adequate to do justice. *BUT* that would also > > >mean an stats of 2 or lower for the others...you could raise a stat to 3 by > > >lowering another to 1. According to the chart on page 35 that means their > > >stats are poor or miserable. I tend to see firemen's stats (not forces!) as > 3 > > >to 5's. You see what I'm driving at? > > > > Maybe they bought some extra stats with experience? (Put some limit > > on the *value* of stats that can be taken before an extra Force > > is bought, maybe?) Call them "evolved characters" and don't let it > > bog you down... > > That's true. Just by the rules you can get up to > 3 points in any area before the Force gets bumped up. So > you could, theoretically, have a character with 9 points of extra > attributes without gaining an extra force. More than enough to get at > least average in all stats, yet be well above average > in select areas. Right. If you tried to make an "average" policeman with Stats all equal to 4, then you'd need a Force 6 character. While my hat may be off to the R.C.M.P. as one of the better police forces around, I'm sure that they aren't ALL Force 6 characters... equal to Soldiers in ability. Furthermore, trying to get to higher stats suggested would result in ridiculously powerful mortals. Your advice, Ms. McCoy and Mr. Karakash, is well taken. This way we can create those powerful Force 5 mortals, without necessarily limiting their primary stats to the lower end of the spectrum. Myself, I always peg my mortals at either 4 or 5 forces. 4 equals average kinda guy. 5 equals really influential/dedicated/nifty person. I have yet to introduce a "naturally occuring" force 6 mortal. They are just too rare!!!... but I've sure monkeyed with the stats to make some really nasty force 5 mortals! Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Nicholas Copernicus, Master Astronomer Stood up and Shouted, addressing the throng, "Abandon poor Ptolomy, Stand up and follow me, Heliocentrically, Ptolomy's Wrong!!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:01:33 -0800 From: TIER-1 Subject: Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > On Mar 27, 2:19pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > Subject: Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... > > At 12:31 PM -0500 3/27/97, Calabim@aol.com wrote: > > > > >Yes indeed, very good. That would give the average policeman STR:6 AGIL:6 > > >which is certainly more than adequate to do justice. *BUT* that would also > > >mean an stats of 2 or lower for the others...you could raise a stat to 3 by > > >lowering another to 1. According to the chart on page 35 that means their > > >stats are poor or miserable. I tend to see firemen's stats (not forces!) as > 3 > > >to 5's. You see what I'm driving at? > > > > Maybe they bought some extra stats with experience? (Put some limit > > on the *value* of stats that can be taken before an extra Force > > is bought, maybe?) Call them "evolved characters" and don't let it > > bog you down... > > That's true. Just by the rules you can get up to > 3 points in any area before the Force gets bumped up. So > you could, theoretically, have a character with 9 points of extra > attributes without gaining an extra force. More than enough to get at > least average in all stats, yet be well above average > in select areas. > All well and good for NPC's, but mortal PC's are still hosed. They don't have any experience... the best you could do would be to have a generous GM who allows the "use character points to bump up creation stats" option (which of course is optional and not recommended according to the rules ;) ). On average the mortal would have to spend six character points to get low averages in his weak spot (assuming a 2-2-1 force spread and my point cost of attributes memory isn't futzed). This leaves Joe Mortal with only 14 character points left for everything else... then again, without having to worry about buying songs, attunements and vessels that can be plenty. Still, it depends on GM whim... but in the end, don't it all...? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:53:04 -0500 (EST) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN>STATS FOR MORTALS... In a message dated 97-03-27 20:01:10 EST, Rob Wolff / Bodhi wrote: << Myself, I always peg my mortals at either 4 or 5 forces. 4 equals average kinda guy. 5 equals really influential/dedicated/nifty person. I have yet to introduce a "naturally occuring" force 6 mortal. They are just too rare!!!... but I've sure monkeyed with the stats to make some really nasty force 5 mortals! >> I have to agree with you about 6 force mortals. I feel the only way to become one is to become aware of the war and to choose a side. (Thereby embracing your fate/destiny?) Your sixth force is your "reward" for having done so. I'm not so sure how soon or how easily this occurs. In no case would I recommend 6 force mortals in any mundane role, nor even a daring but non aligned role. If six forces becomes the standard, then a stat of 4 is standard. "Above average human adult" according to the chart on page 35. To make "Above Average" the average gets a little weird. I abhor the idea of giving "a villain bonus" to a mundane, even one in a tough job like a police officer. So that leaves us with the idea of giving him 5 forces, 20 stat points, and 20 character points. He should have stats of 3-4, so he'll need to buy about 4 stat points...using 16 of his 20 character points. YIKES! or....have the stats of "a human child" in a number of areas. Normally I wouldn't make a big deal of the issue. But mortals are the crux of what the angels are fighting over! Makes it kinda hard to just "fudge it, and ignore them." Here's hoping that someone out there has done a number of mortals of 5 and fewer forces and is willing to share them... Rob, and others; thank you for your wonderful replies and bearing with me... - -Calabim, Knight of "I'm not saying", whose rite is slaying champions refs who give excessive villain bonuses ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:10:35 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Message. HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE. Talk to you all after, Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:01:27 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: IN> Easter I have it on good authority that this week is particularly difficult and busy for Catholic Priests. Thus, perhaps our thoughts and best wishes should be especially extended to Moriah, who is the line editor for In Nomine. Let's face it... we'd all like to hear more from him on Canon Laws, etc., but we also tend to forget that this week may be particularly trying for him. And another pat on the back to University students, who are right now winding down their semesters and heading towards that awful period of exams. From those of us who know, stick with it people! So, to Moriah, and to the Students, and to the list in general, have a pleasant, peaceful, and fulfilling Easter. (even if this is not a personally significant holiday, may you enjoy the concurrant period of time in a personally significant way). By the way... any ideas for Easter IN campaigns? Shroud of Turin type stuff? End of the Millenium second coming? Oooooh, my players are gonna' kill me .... Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Nicholas Copernicus, Master Astronomer Stood up and Shouted, addressing the throng, "Abandon poor Ptolomy, Stand up and follow me, Heliocentrically, Ptolomy's Wrong!!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:13:19 -0600 (CST) From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" Subject: Re: IN> Language: Heavenly/Demonic On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Okay, Demons can speak their twisted celestial tongue while in > vessels (p. 187, box), and while they can speak the original > angelic language, angels don't know the demonic tongue... > > Is this applicable for all demons? ("You grew up as an imp down > here, but you're gonna *learn* the Angelic!") Does this apply > to Redeemed? ("Well, I used to speak Demon, but it got scrubbed > out of my head..." or "Gonna wash that language right outa my > haid...") > It's been my impressiong that the demonic tongue is a distorted version of the angelic tongue. Considering the musical nature of the angelic tongue, i'd have to assume the demonic is some kind of horrendous dissonant screeching and clanging (not unlike country, but i digress). Moreover, it has been stated that nothing demonic may enter heaven, and the angelic tongue is the language fo heaven. Therefore, it is not necessarily true that angels cannot _learn_ the demonic tongue, just that they are completely unable to abide by it ("what is that racket"). A redeemed demon would more than likely give it up for the perfect language of heaven, having been brought up from the pits, as it were, and never looking back. Moreover, i seriously doubt that celestials learn their language the same way humans learn languages. I see it as something they are born knowing, on an instinctual level. Thus, when an angel falls, he gains instant knowledge of the demonic tongue as part of his fallen nature. - -Q - --------------------------------------- "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein Scott "Q" Meyer Scott.E.Meyer@wheaton.edu http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #93 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.