From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Apr 8 16:43:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17596; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:10:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA23511 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 13:15:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 13:15:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199704081815.NAA23511@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #109 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, April 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 109 In this digest: IN> Add me to the list Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #104 Re: IN> help for lost message Re: IN> Marc and "Trade" IN> Angel/Demon LARP Re: IN> Principalities IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #106 Re: IN> In Nomine Gargoyles... Re: IN> Angel/Demon LARP Re: IN> Marc and "Trade" Re: IN> In Nomine Gargoyles... IN> Foreign Resonance IN> Copyright Stuff Re: IN> Zombi Thoughts and Ideas IN> Re: Zombi Thoughts and Ideas Re: IN> In Nomine Gargoyles... Re: IN> Some More Thoughts IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #108 Re: IN> Kryiotate Questions. Re: IN> Demon of Patriotism Re: IN> Principalities Re: IN> Angel/Demon LARP Re: IN> Principalities Re: IN> Principalities Re: IN> Principalities Re: IN> Angel/Demon LARP IN> It's just a story... Re: IN> In Nomine Gargoyles... IN> IN: Jung and Freud go to Hell ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 19:46:58 -0400 From: Shawn Fitzpatrick Subject: IN> Add me to the list Sirs, Please add my email to the lists for things being discussed about this cool game. sfitz@delanet.com Thank you Shawn Fitz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:11:38 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #104 hook me up a copy. jahon On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Shadowcat wrote: > > > > > > > > >if there is no problem (I am trying to summarize, not copy parts of the > > >text), would anyone else like a copy when I get done? > > > > > >matt s. > > > > > > > If it's cool by SJG, please, sign me up for a copy! > > Post a copy to me too. > > Shadowcat > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:49:14 -0500 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> help for lost message > also, some of you may be to young to remember it, but Mr.Mister >had a hit song that would be perfect to In Nomine by: "Kyrie Elieson". >thanks for listening to the newbie. Tom. Minor detail; the song was called simply "Kyrie" (which i have been told is Latin for Lord; Kyrie Elison is Lord have mercy (amazing the things you remember when you have no life...)) It was from the album uniform of youth ( think) which also had the other Hit (as in, one hit wonders, but hey, I liked them) Broken wings. think, teme music, though perhaps a bit too lyrical for some games ( I prefer instrumental music myself). - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 00:53:19 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Marc and "Trade" On Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:52:35 -0400, Tom Beliech wrote: >Basically, I guess I'm trying to figure out how much control Marc >actually has over his Word right now - very little, it seems! To say >that humans are flummoxing his "Word" is one thing (and true, very >true), but he IS the Archangel, and I doubt that the Big Boss in the Sky >is going to look kindly on an Archangel who loses control of his own >Word. To what extent have the Demon Princes been able to subvert Marc, >and Twenty (ten?) years ago, Trade was minimal with Eastern Europe, Russia, China, South Africa, etc. You say several times that Marc seems to be in trouble, but it seems to me that Marc is gaining hugely. Trade is far more widespread than it used to be, allowing friendly and mutually beneficial relations among peoples. >Currency and money can actually be a barrier to fair trade! Any trade can be made by barter as well as with money. Money just makes things a lot easier, and so enhances Trade. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 21:28:51 -0300 From: "Rien n'est vrai. Tout est permis." Subject: IN> Angel/Demon LARP Hello. I was wondering if someone here ever worked on/developped a LARP system involving Angels and Demons (INS/MV like or not, and as an extension to Mind's Eye Theater rules or not). If you have done so, or have WWW pages that could help me design one, please email me ASAP at cabale@microtec.net. It would really be appreciated. Danke. Julien Villeneuve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:57:34 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Principalities In reply to: > >The start of the idea seemed to be an extrapolation of the role of the > >Celestial Seneschals, which I found to be flawed. The Seneschals are not > >interested in the Corporeal Plane, they have no interest in buildings, > >waterfalls, parks, gardens, churches or sacred groves. A quick question about Seneschals. Do the Seneschals of Janus lose the "must keep moving or gather dissonance" limitation, or do his Seneschals spend a lot of their time going from place to place, calling in on the Tether, and hoping that no-one damages it before he can get back? > >It also seemed odd to me that (to take the easier side of the argument) a > >Divine Celestial Agent would be more interested in one human over another > >because of where they were born or where they live. I was reading through the Dictionary of Angels, and came across the Angel of Egyptians (I can't remember his name). Basically, according to religious legend, when Moses was pusued across the desert by the Egyptians, God got quite annoyed at them and ordered Gabriel and Michael (I think) to shoot at the Egyptians with flaming celestial arrows (or something). The caretaker of the Eqyptians (who had been given that role by God) lived up to his purpose and helped the Egyptians. God grew angry and basically killed the Angel by dissolving his forces in a celestial fire, even though he was just doing what he was created to do. So, this example shows that some Angels would have an interest in specific nationalities, and also that God was a rather mean and paranoid bugger in the old days. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:10:03 -0500 (CDT) From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #106 >Walk in Beauty, > >Rob Wolff / Bodhi >rob@v-wave.com The Great Bodhi does it again! Eli ain't got nothin' on you! ;) Reminds me quite a bit of Bureau 13, actually. Hmmmmm.... Bureau 13.... - ----- >Michael Hmmm.... good ideas. That 8 CorpForce zombie is just a frightening thought. > > >Michael > > > - ----- > >Yours > Peter. Very nice stuff. Keep it up! > >The issue of replacing the vessel remains unresolved. Any ideas? > > >_______________________________________________Not the opinions of: >Lee Davis APAC Information Services Dept. >cldavis@ashland.com (770) 392-5456 >"Nobody ever listens to Zathras. It is good that Zathras does not >mind. He has even grown to like it." > Zathras, War without End, Babylon 5 > Here's how I handled it for a poor servant of Eli who got his vessel splattered by a Calabim (twice!) Note my use of the pronoun 'he' is for convenience only, not sexism (a Demon Of Malphas) If an angel's vessel gets aced, he is ejected into the corporeal plane, in Celestial form. If he has the two Essence, he immediately is drawn to Heaven, regardless of Essence, unless some other power is trapping him on the mortal plane. Once in Heaven and over Trauma, the Angel needs to buy a new vessel with character points. If he has the points, well and good, new vessel, time to rock'n'roll. If not, it's time to play everyone's favorite Game, "Beg Your Superior!" This can be challenging. Once the Superior grants a new vessel (make sure the character earns it through role-playing), he can take the 'cost' out of future rewards. Just the way we do it here in Wisconsin, where cows eat the character sheets. > >1) Should the rite "Make a 100% profit on an honorable transaction" be >left strictly to GW interpretation? I assume making LESS that the 100% >profit would be insufficient, but how much profit can a servitor of Marc >make on a deal, ANY deal, before it goes to the realm of "dishonorable?" >Could a 500% profit EVER be considered honorable, even if the deal was >mutually satisfying? I'd say that deals only get dishonorable when one party starts to lie or leave out critical information. It's fully possible to make 500% profit and still be honest about it- just a matter of gauging how much a person is willing to pay. Price is not just reflected in straight material worth- a piece of Star Wars memorobilia worth $0.50 for all practical purposes might fetch $10 at a convention. It's not dishonest to maximize your profits, as long as you don't lie about your merchandise. - -Rogue, He Who Never Ever Cheats His Clients, Honestly, Never, Balseraph of Asmodeus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:55:11 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Gargoyles... You know... I like this a lot. I'll admit that I'll probably never use it. But I REALLY enjoyed the exercise of reading it, comparing it to the show, and seeing how remarkably well you fit the two universes together. Nice job. One comment, though... I was privy to a frank conversation with four of my closest friends, all female, who claimed that the two people that they'd most want to have sex with were 1. Worf, from STTNG 2. Goliath, from Gargoyles ... and let me assure you, that it WASN'T for his "voice" and "bearing". Thus, I'm not so sure if he's really "ugly", but I see the necessity of including this discord ;-) Again, nice job, Ms. McCoy! Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:56:26 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Angel/Demon LARP The SJG web-site lists Live-Action rules as coming out sometime over the next few years, I believe. You probably won't see them for at least 18 months, I'd guess. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 00:15:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Marc and "Trade" On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Tom Beliech wrote: > I admit a certain trepidation over the entire concept of an Archangel of > Trade Good! Archangels are most interesting when there is something worrying about them. Heavenly factions will be most believable when each faction has a point. > > 3) Marc's doesn't seem to be above a bit of skimming off the top: "He > invented the concept of salary and doesn't stint himself" Well, he's > definitely a Western-World kind of guy. "Skimming off the top" makes it sound dishonest. Marc just doesn't seem to see anything wrong with *getting* - and neither do many people who would think of themselves as being on the side of good. > I find it really odd that > Novalis and Michael don't hate this guy, considering the current state > of the business world in Western society, and what a mockery it seems to > be making of "honor" and "peace" (not to mention what business is doing > to the rainforest!). They may think that his vision is better than many alternatives. Capitalism may not be a paragon of honor and peacefulness, but it has a better reputation in this regard than most systems. Besides, general honesty and peace and good for business. > Is Marc HAPPY with business, American style, or is > he just losing control of his Word? He seems to be getting gang-banged > by Nybbas, Valefor and Vapula, but doesn't seem to be worried about it, > based on the IN NOMINE book Its possible that Marc and these three demons might regard the very same events as victories. To see Marc in the best light is to review the capitalist dream - that by the rule of business and supply and demand, everyone benifits. Marc may consider himself a realist. Yes, charity is a lovely idea - but it won't work as a basis for society. Trade, on the other hand, while less romantic, has raised the living standards of millions of people. What is more, the wealth it generates is what makes possible the education and social services upon which a healthy society relies. Marc nodoubt sees Novalis as well intentioned, but terminally useless. A dream is only any good if you can put it into practice. Now I'm not saying that Marc is right - I'm just trying to put him in the most attractive light - as the best viable alternative the world has got. > (sounds like a supplement for Marc is BADLY > needed!) Any servitor of Marc in my campaign had better be stomping out > greedy corporate lawyers, many of whom would be demons or > demon-servant If you like, but I think he is rather interesting as he is. > 6) How about THESE rites for Marc's servitors, instead of the ones in > the book: > All interesting and appropriate for Marc as you wish to reform him. But I like him as he stands. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 00:09:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Johnson Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Gargoyles... Brava - very amusing, and surprisingly fitting. It's always nice when two unusual sources synch so well. (I'm reminded of how terrifyingly easy it was for me to fit Sailor Moon into the Shadowrun/Earthdawn universe.) Just one suggestion - I'd think that it might be more appropriate for the gargoyles to be former Cherubim, not Malakim, given that a gargoyle's life revolves around guarding its home and the people therein ('A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air.') The Malakite of Stone attunement is reminiscent of the gargoyle habit of turning to stone, true, but Cherubim just feel more right to me for some reason. (And you've got to admit Demona somewhat fills the Djinn pattern. She's decided to destroy humanity, Goliath, the clan - everything she ever cared for, claiming that she couldn't care less about them now. And most of the time, it seems she's right, except on the rare occasions she shows her heart isn't totally stone after all, and no matter how much she hates it, she still cares at least a little...) All in all, though, great work, and quite amusing. Keep up the good work. --Scott Johnson, who's occasionally considered writing up a series of 'IN ANIME' posts detailing IN NOMINE guidelines for such weird topics as the Relief Angel Help Line, Video Angels, and a new type of Soldier of God - - the Magical Girl... ------------------------------ Date: 08 Apr 97 02:28:06 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> Foreign Resonance >From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) >Subject: IN> Baron's of Alaemon/Dagger of Bithynia Questions > >It says that a Baron of Alaemon gets ALL the band attunments of Alaemon (the >Dagger also grants this). My question concerns these attunements. Most of >the attunments affect the Bands resonance, so is it possible to actually use >an attunement of another band if it requires the Bands attunment? The IN NOMINE book prevents celestials from acquiring Attunements that affect Resonances they don't or can't have. So, a Duke gets all Attumenents of his Superior except in the case of Attunements which affect foreign Resonances. Same for the Ambassador distinction, which is the angelic equivalent of Duke. Peace, Moriah IN NOMINE Line Editor ------------------------------ Date: 08 Apr 97 02:27:59 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> Copyright Stuff >it isn't as good as the text, as it doesn't describe details, just very >basically what it does and how. On the other hand, it could be considered >"might as well be the full text" from one POV because it does (or will; >I'm not done yet) list the necessary mechanics and page refs to the book. > >maybe the best thing to do would be to send a copy to Moriah or somebody >when it's done for approval. It would be a useful thing for many people, >but I don't want to run afoul of SJ Games, the copyright laws, Moriah, or >anything like that. I won't send out copies to anyone who has requested >them until it is all done, straightened out, and approved. Actually, that's a good way to handle it. Remember, you can go ahead with this project for your own use only. You can hand out copies of those sheets to your players, as long as they don't get the full set. After I review what you've done, I'll be able to say whether it would be alright to distribute it 'in toto' to others. If it is, we'd probably ask you if we can put it on our own web page! Just email it to me for the review. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:58:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: Re: IN> Zombi Thoughts and Ideas >>[...] (BTW, just what *did* happen to >>Charlie? Went celestial? In which case, why did the old vessel stay around? >>Did he "die"? In which case, how? No rules for "bleeding to death later...") > >(Body Bag, listed in Charlie's equipment in the character writeup >in _Pyramid_... What, no *subscription*? Horrors. One assumes that >the vessel was toasted and Charlie bugged out just before it really >fell down for the final time...) Hmph. I do *so* have that issue of "Pyramid", but he actually had time to try a Song of Healing on himself and to argue with Marcus a little before "shuffling off this mortal coil". *I* wouldn't allow a player who was *killed* to do all that, frankly. Or maybe he just "bailed out", and remanifested inside the Bag, with a grievously wounded vessel out there to be repaired later? >>[...]Maybe it'd be a good idea to rig up something that >>would destroy the vessel in case of your "death", although Kobal would just >>*love* to find a way to set it off prematurely, I betcha. > >I am now thinking of Tweety Bird and "fall down go *BOOM*" lines... >This is all your fault. "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" >(Bugs Bunny is a Balseraph... Lookit all the stuff he pulls out of >thin air to make his own personal universe show up? Road Runner is, >of course, Ofanite. Wile E Coyote is a victim of Kobal and a servant >of Vapula...) Elmer Fudd has to be a Djinn, with that "skill" at hunting wabbits... I still think Bugs does better as an Ofanite, though. He's the ultimate Dodger, and he's *always* running around... although, come to think of it, he *does* get lost from time to time, which no self-respecting Ofanite would ever do, or at least admit to doing. <"I knew I shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque!"> Bart Simpson is, of course, a Calabite... Michael When Boy George sang, "Do you really want to hurt me?", was I the only one out here screaming, "Yes!! YES!!"? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:58:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: IN> Re: Zombi Thoughts and Ideas > OK, no Celestial Forces, true, >> but *8* Corporeal Forces combined with 2 Ethereal Forces, plus the memories >> that Tariel had and 8 levels of Numinous Corpus. > >I have to disagree with you on this one. Not that it's not a good >idea, but I don't agree with the reasoning behind it. IMO, Celestial >vessels are different to human bodies in several respects. One of >these is that they are not truly alive in the human sense. They are >simply a bag of meat animated by a celestial entity. Since the >vessel's strength comes from the celestial, it has no inherent >strength of it's own, therefore when abandoned by the celestial (or >they are exorcised by 'death') it becomes as useless as a boneless >chicken in terms of physical ability (it may still look tough >though). I may be willing to concede this point though, and say that >a celestial vessel could be animated and have its inherent strength >and agility, I'll have to think about it. It would seem reasonable to me, in that a *body* in general isn't anything more than "a bag of meat animated by a celestial entity", i.e., a soul. After all, a Kyriotate/Shedite can possess either a mortal body *or* a celestial's vessel, with the only limitation being the number of Forces it can control at any one time, so that would seem to argue against using that basis to make any distinction, too. >The memories bit I totally disagree with. The memories and abilities >of a celestial are a part of that celestial, and they store them in >their 'pattern' if you like, not in the 'brain' of whatever vessel >they are inhabiting. Therefore when the celestial leaves the vessel, >it will have no memories (it is like a newborn), so nothing can be >gained by it (it probably won't even know how to walk). Well, that goes against the specific wording of the attunement. Under Zombi, p. 178: "It will have the memory and instincts that it did when alive (at least until it starts to rot) -- but the original soul is completely gone. It's just an animated corpse." Or from p. 193 : "The servitors of Saminga can turn any fresh corpse into a zombi (p. 178). This type of zombi contains nothing of the body's former soul, though it will keep the memories!" >In conclusion, even if you could animate the body, you would end up >with a retarded zombi who you would have to teach to walk, balance >etc. which would hardly make the effort worthwhile. Why would that be any different from any other animated corpse? Your "pattern" idea is interesting, sure, but seems to go against the specific gist of the rules I quoted above. Remember, Zombis *do* get Ethereal Forces, so they *will* have Intelligence and Precision. True, they'll be comparatively weak in these areas... but you're not making a zombi to be your gang's "brains" either. You get big, tough, *mean* critters... and if you get 9 Forces or more to play with, then he'll be *extra* mean. I still don't know if I'd assign characteristic limits to a Zombi, for instance, and that would make a reanimated celestial's Zombi *really* terrifying. Michael When Boy George sang, "Do you really want to hurt me?", was I the only one out here screaming, "Yes!! YES!!"? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 03:11:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Gargoyles... On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, Scott Johnson wrote: > --Scott Johnson, who's occasionally considered writing up a series of > 'IN ANIME' posts detailing IN NOMINE guidelines for such weird topics as > the Relief Angel Help Line, Video Angels, and a new type of Soldier of God > - the Magical Girl... No human language can express the force with which I implore you to start posting these. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 19:39:03 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Some More Thoughts Hatcher Rhanyr wrote: > > Going through the Dictionary of Angels by Davidson I got a few ideas. > > #1- Romeo and Juliet > An Angel and Demon fall in love (how it happened beats the he|| > outta me) I was thinking a Mercurian and maybe a Lilim... Check the storyline 'Fear and Loathing' in the DC/Vertigo comic HELLBLAZER, which features exactly that. That period in the comic's run featured a fair bit of Heaven & Hell. 'Fear and Loathing' should be available as a trade papaerback from any decent comic store. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia With his mouth sewn shut, he still shakes his butt Cuz he's Hitler & Swayze & Trump & Travolta Smell. Sweat. Movement. Everyone's dancing. Disco. MR BUNGLE, "Quote Unquote" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:06:38 -0500 (CDT) From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #108 > >Example since I am probably very unclear: A Baron is granted ALL Attunments. >A Balseraph Duke of Alaemon, being a Baron, gets the attunments of the >Shedim and Djinn. Both of these attunments affect resonance, so, how does >this work? > >Answers very much appreciated. Generally, I treat attunements based on Resonances as worthless to those who don't have the Resonance. - -Rogue, He Who *adored* Elizabeth's Gargoyles Post ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:20:27 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Kryiotate Questions. > We officially grant you permission to do whatever the hell >you want with your own campaign. ;) > > -john 'Demon Prince of Rules Lawyers' karakash- Thanks John, You're a Dinky Di Bloke :) Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:30:50 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Patriotism > >BTW, I thought this demon was great! Aww gee Thanks to Gregory and John and Earl and Bolie thanks for all the great conversation about my efforts. I am not sure Grudnak doesn't need another polish. Making a good demon is not easy. The best ones are the kind of people I don't like to think about in detail for any length of time. I also have to admit that I apart chose Patriotism over Nationalism for the shock value, much better if your demons have virtueous Words. Hoping all your demons stay in your games. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:34:50 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Principalities Dear Earl At 11:10 AM 7/4/97 -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >I did not intend my American principality, Samuel, to be a senechal. >In fact, I had been imagining Samuel before the bit about senechals >was posted; it merely prompted me to make my own post. > >Of course an angel would not *prefer* one human over another just >because of national origin. But that's not what I see Samuel doing. >Traditionally, your personal guardian angel not only protects you >from (some) dangers, it also urges you on to be the best person >you can, to make the best of your natural abilities. > >A principality is the same thing on a national scale. It's not >only Samuel's job to make America flourish. It is, much more >centrally, to bring out the best in America. If making America >more free and just means making America less prosperous and powerful, >Samuel will opt for free and just every time. > >Patron saints of countries are also a good idea, and could well be >imagined working in cooperation with the principality. > >Earl Wajenberg Threw the whole idea around for a few hours after reading this and I am happier with the concept, but probably still wouldn't use them. Maybe because I had ideas forming along similar lines about what Major Words were active on both sides in each country, my own first cause it would effect my campaign most, but for interest sake in other countries. Be interested to see what else you can do with it. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. > > Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 08:34:25 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Angel/Demon LARP On Apr 7, 9:28pm, Rien n'est vrai. Tout est permis. wrote: > Subject: IN> Angel/Demon LARP > Hello. > > I was wondering if someone here ever worked on/developped a LARP system > involving Angels and Demons (INS/MV like or not, and as an extension to > Mind's Eye Theater rules or not). If you have done so, or have WWW pages > that could help me design one, please email me ASAP at cabale@microtec.net. > It would really be appreciated. Don't take this as set in stone but there very well may be an In Nomine LARP bubbling on one of the far back burners of SJ's mind. If it gets brought up to the front burner, I'll let ya know. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:57:10 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Principalities Dear Leath >In reply to Leath who wrote: > >> >The start of the idea seemed to be an extrapolation of the role of the >> >Celestial Seneschals, which I found to be flawed. The Seneschals are not >> >interested in the Corporeal Plane, they have no interest in buildings, >> >waterfalls, parks, gardens, churches or sacred groves. > >A quick question about Seneschals. Do the Seneschals of Janus lose >the "must keep moving or gather dissonance" limitation, or do his >Seneschals spend a lot of their time going from place to place, >calling in on the Tether, and hoping that no-one damages it before he >can get back? Interesting point. Someone a while back said that Seneschals were Word bound to their Tether's Location. Part of that Bound Relationship might mean that a Seneschal can bend the rules on things like dissonance while in their Tether. How far that might go we might have to wait for some Canon rulings on Seneschals and Tethers, or you could just make it up yourself :) . > >> >It also seemed odd to me that (to take the easier side of the argument) a >> >Divine Celestial Agent would be more interested in one human over another >> >because of where they were born or where they live. > >I was reading through the Dictionary of Angels, and came across the >Angel of Egyptians (I can't remember his name). Basically, according >to religious legend, when Moses was pusued across the desert by the >Egyptians, God got quite annoyed at them and ordered Gabriel and >Michael (I think) to shoot at the Egyptians with flaming celestial >arrows (or something). The caretaker of the Eqyptians (who had been >given that role by God) lived up to his purpose and helped the >Egyptians. God grew angry and basically killed the Angel by >dissolving his forces in a celestial fire, even though he was just >doing what he was created to do. So, this example shows that some >Angels would have an interest in specific nationalities, and also >that God was a rather mean and paranoid bugger in the old days. Thanks, you just blew my entire argument . Oh well Maybe God realised what a bad idea it was after that and didn't do it anymore. Nice story though, makes you less unsure of why Lucifer thought some changes could be made around Heaven. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:50:47 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Principalities Dear Walt A large helping of MHO **Some snipping for Brevity** >>The start of the idea seemed to be an extrapolation of the role of the >>Celestial Seneschals, which I found to be flawed. The Seneschals are not >>interested in the Corporeal Plane, they have no interest in buildings, >>waterfalls, parks, gardens, churches or sacred groves. > >You might want to re-read the Tethers sidebar on page 59. Have done again and I stick with what I said, but will expand. Seneschals care for and maintain the physical form and effectiveness/efficency of the Corporeal site where his Tether intersects the Corporeal Plane. On the other hand (to tkae an example) it wouldn't matter to a Servitor of Marc if the Tether was "sited" at a National Stock Exchange, a Hyper-Mall, a Pawnbrokers or a Lemonade Stand. What is important to the Seneschal is that it is their Tether, which they are responsible for. The reason the maintain the Crporeal side (IMHO) is that it somehow helps to maintain the Celestial side, but no one is sure how, just as no one really knows how Tether form in the first place. > >>Also I think it is a mistake to see Seneschals as taking the job as part of >>a progress towards something bigger. In the case of Angels at least I find >>it hard to be comfortable with such rampant ambition, indeed I feel that >>those more likely to rise in the Divine ranks are those who seek to further >>God's Plan through devotion to a Word rather than looking to push something >>they identify as their own self interest. > >Jordi and Jean (and others) are listed as hostile to each other; >Dominic is the inquisitor in charge of rooting out *heavenly* heresy. >Try reading Gabriel's and Micheal's descriptions. Heaven is not all >sweetness and light, canonically at least. Yep that's because they are all honestly, ernestly and devotedly following their own Words. Dominic doesn't dislike Eli, it doesn't get that personal. Eli and Dominic play different themes of the Symphony and those themes don't play harmoniously next to each other, so they clash, musically and politically. >>It also seemed odd to me that (to take the easier side of the argument) a >>Divine Celestial Agent would be more interested in one human over another >>because of where they were born or where they live. > >However, effects have ranges. An angel can only act in a limited area >at a time. Also, Tethers are (as far as is said) stationary. And as a >practical matter, it is convenient for GMs to wok in one area. For sure. The Players are going to be assigned to an area by their Superior and have to work in it, but I still think it is actions and feelings that make for virtue and sin and that is what is going to attract the attention of celestial agents of both sides. >>There is an existing mechanism for a Divine Celestial Agent who is >>interested in humans because of the mundane differences between them, >>including nationality, Saints. > >Could you give me a page reference for this, please? Sorry no page reference. However the very canon Human outline by Moriah was psted to this list a while back and can be found on the In Nomine Collection page at http://www.nocturne.org/inc/human.canon.txt and additional not canon, but very good and definately to be used in my campaign suggestions on Saints and Sinners by Robert Wolff can be found at http://www.nocturne.org/inc/rules.html Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 09:33:59 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Principalities Perhaps God obliterated the Angel of Egypt for reasons related to the difference between patriotism and nationalism. If that angel had been doing its job properly, it would have been working on Pharaoh to let the Children of Israel go and do the right thing, not just taking the Egpytian side in a military conflict. Just a hypothesis. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:56:58 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Angel/Demon LARP John Karakesh said that:- > > Don't take this as set in stone but there very well may > be an In Nomine LARP bubbling on one of the far back burners of > SJ's mind. If it gets brought up to the front burner, I'll > let ya know. ;) > I think it's more than just "set in stone", actually. In Pyramid #24 there was a projected printing schedule for In Nomine products; amongst the list was "The Symphony: the In Nomine Live-Action Role-Playing System". So there. BTW, the other products listed were: the Core Book, the GM pack, the two IN hardback editions (one angelic and one demonic cover), the five-part Revelations Cycle (with the first three volumes officially "christened" - if that's the right word :-), and Relics, a book of Artifacts, Relics, Reliquaries, and other sundry toys for your Angels and Demons to play with. Personally, I hope *THAT* one comes out ASAP. :-) Oh yes, there's also going to be an Angel's and a Demon's players guide each, too. What's going to be in those? Moriah? Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:01:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Bolie Williams IV Subject: IN> It's just a story... One thing to remember... it's a story and I think that Derek has commented before that he wrote it before In Nomine was finalized. Anyway, I have no problem with him taking literary license with the rules and I think that it's probably not valid to assume that everything in the stories is by the book. On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, Michael C. Nutt wrote: > >>[...] (BTW, just what *did* happen to > >>Charlie? Went celestial? In which case, why did the old vessel stay around? > >>Did he "die"? In which case, how? No rules for "bleeding to death later...") > > > >(Body Bag, listed in Charlie's equipment in the character writeup > >in _Pyramid_... What, no *subscription*? Horrors. One assumes that > >the vessel was toasted and Charlie bugged out just before it really > >fell down for the final time...) > > Hmph. I do *so* have that issue of "Pyramid", but he actually had time to > try a Song of Healing on himself and to argue with Marcus a little before > "shuffling off this mortal coil". *I* wouldn't allow a player who was > *killed* to do all that, frankly. Or maybe he just "bailed out", and > remanifested inside the Bag, with a grievously wounded vessel out there to > be repaired later? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bolie Williams IV bolie@io.com http://www.io.com/~bolie/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:36:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jared P. Buntain" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Gargoyles... > --Scott Johnson, who's occasionally considered writing up a series of > 'IN ANIME' posts detailing IN NOMINE guidelines for such weird topics as > the Relief Angel Help Line, Video Angels, and a new type of Soldier of God > - the Magical Girl... Video Angels. Now theres a good roll for Cherubim of Jean. Heck, that actually gives me a clearer view on how to actually _play_ Cherubs... Have them serve a word bound angel (probably the Viedo Store clerk himself) who grants an extension to thier natural Jean resonance, so that they can use a TV (once) to get to where thier attuned person is. Take Ah Megama Sama, (Ah! My Goddess), you've got three Mercurians, of different Archangels, all of which are wandering about with a little dissonance on thier minds, One of which is actually Outcast... hehe. A good source of example on how to treat an outcast Angel in a party. So long as Dominic isnt anywhere in town. Heck Scott, I think you should write it up. I think it would help _me_ at least get a handle on some of the more confusing Choir/Bands to see another point of view, even if it is through the filter of IN ANIME :) Looking at Ah Megama Sama, I think I could get a write up on that with a simple rewatch on the series, maybe drag out some of the manga for the Demoness and others. (Now, at what point exactly will Moriah regret posting that Fools day joke? And does the old saw "Who is the greater fool, the fool, or the fool that follows him?" apply in anyway here? :) Jared Buntain chandley@nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:30:19 -0700 From: Roger Carbol Subject: IN> IN: Jung and Freud go to Hell Synopsis: God and Satan are products of the collective beliefs of humanity. Theory: God, Satan, and all celestial and demonic forces are, in fact, manifestations of humanity's collective unconcious. God, angels, et al. are specifically manifestations of the super-ego, and thus God is pretty much an overbearing parent. Satan, demons, etc. spring from humanity's collective id, and are therefore generally not at all nice, but sometimes lots of fun. Repercussions: Actually, not that many. For one thing, there really isn't any point in arguing over the nature of the One True God. There's just the One Popular God, and that is subject to the whim of the masses. Words and their power come from how important the concept is to the hoi polloi, not the other way around. Example: the Demon of Media didn't ensure the success of television; rather, the success of television changed the way the collective subconscious thought about media, and thus the Demon grew in power. Tethers will almost always occur near concentrations of people, and may very likely be famous in some mundane way. Exceptions might be isolated but still famous locations, such as the Congo, or Antarctica. You'd better pray that the Scientologists don't become REALLY popular. (But perhaps you already knew that.) Notes: This is very likely not an original idea; however, I can't seem to find anyone to attribute it to, so I'll take as much credit as I can. It makes the IN universe, or universes, considerably more pliable, and might make some of the PC's a little more nervous ("What? I'm a figment of someone's imagination!?") Roger Carbol .. rog@col.ca .. wrapped around my finger ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #109 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.