From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Apr 28 15:19:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17952 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:19:10 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA02960 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:20:32 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:20:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199704281820.NAA02960@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #143 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, April 28 1997 Volume 01 : Number 143 In this digest: IN> Re:Demon Prince Bazur IN> Mailing List IN> Looking for an IN PBEM Re: IN> Looking for an IN PBEM IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #141 IN> List Spamming IN> What's in a Sin? Re: IN> What's in a Sin? Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur Re: IN> The War Revealed - Warrior Nun Re: IN> vessel types... Re: IN> New Archangels/Demon Princes Re: IN> vessel types... Re: IN> Faith (and Lilim Questions) Re: IN> CANON: The Supp Plan Re: IN> Vessel Questions... Re: IN> The Undead Re: IN> Faith (and Lilim Questions) Re: IN> Looking for an IN PBEM Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #132 Re: IN> Know The Enemy #5-#10, #14 Re: IN> Vessel Questions... Re: IN> The Undead Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur IN>Bestiary: the Gabriel Hounds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 16:09:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re:Demon Prince Bazur >Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:37:39 -0700 >From: faboo@brainlink.com >Subject: IN> Demon Prince Bazur > >First of all, this is my first post, so please be kind. I gladly accept >responses and possible alterations/improvements to my idea. Hope he >helps other GM's too. Everyone has heard the phrase "the devil is in the >details" right? Well for Bazur, Demon Prince of Beuracracy, this is more >than just a silly quote. Next to factions, Satan's most favored child, >in my game this prince has the most clout. Uh...What Band is he? I'd suggest Djinn, for that 'I don't care how important it is, you want to talk to me, go through the channels' viewpoint. My other thought was that he might possibly be a Lillim (Sure, I'll help you... My way. Fill out this form, waive these rights, sign here, initial here, sign this in blood, agree to this...oh, and fill this out in triplicate.) >RELATIONS--GM's choice. Ah, and the relations thing...Hmm. Andrealphus: There's no bureaucracy in Lust..Neutral towards Bezur. Asmodeus: If we had to fill out Form 77D-Q in triplicate each time we went after a Renegade, half of Hell would have rebelled by now. Hostile, possibly Enemy. Baal: Probably Enemy, for a similar reason. Beleth: Hm...the Nightmare of Bureaucracy...Neutral. Belial: But I want to burn stuff NOW! Hostile. Haagenti:He seems ticked off at everybody. Hostile. Kobal: Sometimes Bureaucracy is funny. Sometimes it's not. Neutral. Kronos: Wait until you know what you're doing, but once you do, don't let bureaucracy get in your way..Neutral. Malphas: Factions in an organization rust the wheels of Bureaucracy. Associated. Nybbas: I really have no idea. Saminga: Who cares about bureaucracy? They're all going to die anyway. Neutral. Valefor: Not sure here either. Vapula: Damn the blasted Patent Office! Hostile. Lilith: If he is a Lilim, I could see Lilith being resentful at her son's climb to power..Hostile in that case,. Bureaucracy tends to cramp her style. I'm not sure how I'd work the way he feels about everyone else...Possibly an Associated with Malphas, and Neutral to Kobal and Beleth, Hostile towards everybody else... Just some thoughts. >CHANCE OF INVOCATION- 4 (Kind of hard to get him...I wonder why.) For a 'Kind of Hard to get' guy, his chance of Invocation is quite high. Checking through the basic rulebook...Nybbas is the only Demon Prince who's that easily called. Perhaps 1 or 0 would be more appropriate. > >INVOCATION MODIFIERS >+1 An "Out To Lunch" sign >+2 Filling out the short Summon Prince form (1 hour) >+3 A memorandum no less than 10 pages >+4 Causing a fight at the DMV or similar institution >+5 Filling out the extended Summon Prince form (4 hrs) >+6 An original legal/political document of import (Constitutional bills >and such) Heh. I like these. Does the Extended Summon Demon Prince form have to be filled in Triplicate? > >Ok, well that is my little bundle of nasty. Knowing how he works, you >may understand why the Dark Lord favors him so. If the other princes get >around the sqabbling instigated be the Prince of Factions, then Bazur >can stall any real action by centuries. Hoping to know what you all >think. The only other, minor problem I see with this Demon prince is , since everything he does is to promote bureaucracy, and seeing him caught upin hos own Bureaucracy, is that he'll rarely, if ever, get anything done. All the paperwork has to be taken care of first. If another Demon Prince decided to storm Bezur's stronghold, it looks like his servitors would be too busy writing out the 'Defend against Onslaught' forms to defend themselves. The Bureaucracy he supports is dragging him down, and without Lucifer's support I'd think he'd be one of the more minor Demon Princes. = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu ==== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Saban, Balseraph Captain of the Media, the Demon of Stock Footage. ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ======= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: MBrittan@aol.com Subject: IN> Mailing List Jason Hall 23705 Vassar Hazel Park, MI 48030 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:43:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Castello Subject: IN> Looking for an IN PBEM I'd like to join an In Nomine play-by-E-mail game. If anyone on the list has a pbem that's just starting up or an in-progress game that's accepting new players please contact me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ {"I'll bare the basics, bridle the beast Unreason, and wrest from murky mystery the pearl of sweetest sense."} Dennis Castello Creative communications in Print, Video, Multimedia, Film 503-977-3821 castello@teleport.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:48:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Looking for an IN PBEM Count me in as well, I'd like to have a crack at that Cymrys 'If a bare thousand of us dream...we can change the world' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:40:24 -0500 (CDT) From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #141 > >> Do Vessels suffer Fatigue-effects? Or do they just keep going and >> going and going? (Probably *feeling* tired once they're out of >> Essence...) [My preference: Fatigue? What's fatigue? We can trek >> forever if we have to, just keep breathing.] > >Keep breathing? Ha. Angels can walk across the bottoms of oceans, >let alone valleys of death. Not to mention stride across the >surface of the moon. > >Or at least they can in my little corner of the IN multiverse. Your >celestial mileage may vary. If that's how you want to play it, cool. The manual says that corporeal vessels DO need to breathe, though. Pg. 48. sidebar. > >Hello. My name is Kimble Foster and I am recent member of this list. I've >also only been recently introduced to the game itself. Just wanted to say >hello to all and ask a question. What are the opinions of the list members >on some of the more rescent "Angel" movies as inspiration and source >material for In Nomine? > > I'd give my right arm to be ambidexterous! > Crowe T. Robot-MST 3K Welcome aboard, Kimble! Two words for you: "Michael" and "BATTLE!" >----- >>And we already know they can't get pregnant unless they want to... > > >They can get pregnant? Sure. Derek posted something a while back (before your time, I suppose ;) ) about a servitor of Michael who gets pregnant and decides to keep her baby. >Ok, well that is my little bundle of nasty. Knowing how he works, you >may understand why the Dark Lord favors him so. If the other princes get >around the sqabbling instigated be the Prince of Factions, then Bazur >can stall any real action by centuries. Hoping to know what you all >think. > >Another David. (From now on will be Dave) *Great!* I like it! Couple of things though... remember that Shedim can only posses one person, not two? Your attunement still works, and it is *extremely* powerful, since Multiplicity is normally the domain of Kyrios. Just one question, Dave... under the Djinn attunement, you stated there was 'a chance' of the demon knowing someone is tracking his attunement... how much of a chance? - -Rogue, He Who Goes By The Law: "The best instrument with which to handle an uncooperative beauracracy is a bulldozer." ------------------------------ Date: 28 Apr 97 02:30:44 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> List Spamming Please note that I do send private emails to posters who spam or overquote. Please don't correct people 'publicly'. That just puts them in double jeopardy, and that is unconstitutional. I've already destroyed their self-esteem with a private, vitriolic attack filled with obscenity*. Peace, Moriah IN NOMINE Mailing List Manager *Just kidding. I stalk them, instead**. **That was a kid, too. I send them a pleasant 'please don't do that, thanks for your cooperation' messages. But I bet you all liked the other ideas. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Apr 97 02:30:37 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> What's in a Sin? >From: John Maurer >Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Idea: The End of the Rainbow? > >At 10:04 PM 4/26/97 -0400, Frederic Bush wrote: > >>Ezeqeel and Ezoiil never lost their friendship. Ezoiil, Angel of the >>Deluge, has been growing more and more restive lately. He realizes >>objectively that God has authority over him and he may not destroy mortal >>sinners without God's word, but he grows angry at the evils he sees on the >>planet. Sin, licentiousness, and rampant homosexuality, the sin of Sodom, > >A good scenario I think, but just to make a theological point: I have read >(and I am certain Moriah will correct me if I am wrong). That the sin of >Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality. The sin of sodom was >inhospitality. Until the middle ages, to do a "sodomy" to someone was to do >them an unkindnes. It was not until King James (who was a closet homosexual >himself) that the word took on its current leanings to anal penetration. > >This is not to say that god is necessarily keen on the whole homosexual >issue. In exodus he did recommend death to men who lie with men as women. >He just didn't destroy Sodom and Gommorah over it. Well, since I was asked... Same sex relationships is definitely a no-no for both Testaments. No amount of re-interpretation will get around that. Among the scholars of the mainline Christian faiths (who are not afraid to say when the Scriptures contradicts Church moral teaching) this is a period. Period. However, with the Sodom thing, it is true that Sodom's sin was inhospitality. However, the Sodomites were being inhospitable by attempting sodomy on unwilling guests. So, that's two no-no's. Double however, the Scriptures presents slavery as an acceptable part of society -- which we all agree is not Good. To pull out a scriptural prescription and to use that as an absolute moral guide should be reprehensible to any mainline Christian, though it is common practice among fundamentalist Christians. This applies to scriptural practices of slavery, monarchism, sexism, genocide, war, life issues, and sexual mores. That is why the Roman Catholic Church does not buy into 'sola scriptura'; for the RC's, it is 'Scripture *and* Tradition' which guides moral doctrine. Relating this to IN NOMINE: Please don't say that This or That is immoral or evil and that is why Celestial X hates it. Rather, say that Celestial X regards This or That as immoral or evil and because of their opinion, that is why they hate it. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 03:36:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Frederic Bush Subject: Re: IN> What's in a Sin? > Relating this to IN NOMINE: Please don't say that This or That is immoral >or evil and that is why Celestial X hates it. Rather, say that Celestial X >regards This or That as immoral or evil and because of their opinion, that is >why they hate it. Hmm... I thought I made that clear in the adventure seed... having had unpleasant personal experience with homosexuals, Ezoiil dislikes them, though is unable to act on that dislike, being Elohim and all... - --Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:51:38 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur Dear Dave, Oops and List >Oops da Ogre, How about his take on the others? Wrote >Other than that, it's an interesting demon, although I'd proably make >him a servant of Malphas... Funny I would have said Asmodeus, but then I put most things to do with the Evils of Social Organisation under Asmodeus. Yours Peter. Who would angle for the Word of Anarchy, Hmm is that Divine or Dabolic :) Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:51:36 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> The War Revealed - Warrior Nun Dear Shadowcat. Patrick and List At 02:17 PM 25/4/97 -0500, Shadowcat wrote: >On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: >> Hmmm... I'll pass, thanks. Nice idea, lousy end result (why do all >> the nuns have to have 36-D breasts in those comics?). > > Well at least in the case of Warrior Nun B&W #1&2 the artist, Art >Lyon, allways draws his women over muscled, and he has a thing for large >breasted women. He was a friend of mine in Bloomington IN. > > Shadowcat, who needs to get back to Indiana to get his copies >sighned. Well Pat, if you want to know the truth, females are drawn like that in comics cause the target market is male adolescents and there is nothing better to get a boys attention than a well developed females. Shadowcat - I am not so keen to attempt an into game translation of the characters, cause I don't think they would really work outside their own universe. maybe someone else could take it on. Thanking you for your indulgence, Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:35:59 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> vessel types... On Apr 25, 2:21pm, Shadowcat wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> vessel types... > > > On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Donald G Bixler wrote: > > > > Well, as far a escape goes, why not take Flea/5 as a vessel? That > > > would one tough Flea! And how the heck would you be able to find it? > > > > Unfortunately, only Jordi's Kyrio's can take insects... > > HUH??? I thought you could take what ever type of animal you > wanted. I didn't know that certain choirs had certain types of beasties > exclusively. There's an obscure reference in the book about insect vessels (p. 191) under Insect Swarm. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:37:58 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> New Archangels/Demon Princes On Apr 25, 4:29pm, David.Evans wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> New Archangels/Demon Princes > Tom said that:- > > > > by gum, I do believe he's right!!! nice call Gregory---how says the > > list--guides by choir/band or by AA/DP? put me down in the Superior > > side of the question. > > Hmmm, now I've been thinking over it, my overall feelings and thunks are > that one AA and one DP book would be about right. As long as SJ keeps > the number of Servitors down to less than 30 each side in total, and simply > gives us a maximum of, say, 12 pages for each AA/DP with minimal (or no?) > artwork. I think a no artworked 360 page *hardbound* (please? since > it'll get a fair bit of use over the years...) book will quite > satisfactory to those how wish for such a tome. Yeay or nay? Such books don't sell... or don't sell well enough to justify printing it! Also, due to the writer-intensive effort that goes into each superior, that would mean that ANY book with an AA/DP would be delayed by nearly a year. Ow. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:53:04 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> vessel types... On Apr 25, 7:47pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> vessel types... > At 2:21 PM -0500 4/25/97, Shadowcat wrote: > >On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Donald G Bixler wrote: > > > >> > Well, as far a escape goes, why not take Flea/5 as a vessel? That > >> > would one tough Flea! And how the heck would you be able to find it? > >> > >> Unfortunately, only Jordi's Kyrio's can take insects... > > > > HUH??? I thought you could take what ever type of animal you > >wanted. I didn't know that certain choirs had certain types of beasties > >exclusively. > > Only Jordi's Kyrios can *possess* Insects -- by extension, a GM > could easily rule that no other angel could create an insect > vessel (on the grounds that it's too obnoxious to have a Strength 6 > flea running around)... But I don't think there's actually a ruling > against *creating* an insect Vessel... Dang. Those Impudites of > Technology are looking better and better! Well, the exact quote is "Only Jordi's Kyriotates may _manifest_ as insects." (my emphasis) in the Insect Swarm section. If any other type of angel were allowed to take an insect vessel, presumably this is where it would be listed. It seems that 'manifest', in this context, means both 'possess' and 'cause a vessel to be created and get in it'. The rationale is that you cannot have a single insect vessel (it's too small and simple to contain an angel) so you have to have an entire swarm. Only Kyriotates have the ability to have multiple vessels and even then only Jordi's Kyriotates are close enough to the 'animal' side of the Corporeal world to allow interaction with insects. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:03:54 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Faith (and Lilim Questions) > And, just to try and put this letter back on topic a bit, I've got a few > questions about Lilim I've been meaning to ask, one serious, one non. The > non first: Is there a singular form of Lilim? It looks plural, like > Seraph/Seraphim, Shedite/Shedim, Cherub/Cherubim, but I haven't seen a > singular for it anywhere. It looks like it *could* be a plural of Lilith, > but that risks confusion with their mother... Lilis perhaps? Lilite? > Lilaph? I believe that the plural and singular are the same. > On a more serious note, Lilim can divine Needs by looking into their > subject's eyes, then fulfill them and trade that for a Geas. Is that the > only way they can impose Geasa? Or can they agree to do something in > exchange for a Geas even if it's not a Need they saw, or a Need at all, or > even if they haven't ever looked into someone's eyes, or met them in > person? If they can only trade Geasa for Needs they've seen in someone's > eyes, it makes, for instance, the jobs of Lilim of Vapula much more > difficult - they'll likely be doing favors, in some cases, for people > they've met on the Net but never in person. And no Lil* (my improvised > Lilim singular) would really gain a benefit by doing someone a favor if it > wasn't something they Needed, or if they had the poor fortune not to see > the Need the current conversation was about - which seems to restrict them > more than seems in character for me. Just a thought. Non-Canon, but strongly believed in: If a Lilim chooses NOT to 'look into their eyes' they can still work out some sort of deal (and impose the appropriate Geas), but they don't get the bonus that a successful roll would have given them. They also don't get the information about how much the victim needs the particular favor so they are 'trading blind'. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:08:29 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> CANON: The Supp Plan > > 1. Vignette. A short story giving flavor of the game. It will present > > the setting in this supplement, the people introduced or expanded upon > > in this supplement, and advance a story arc for the 5 book cycle. Story arcs > > shakes things up a bit -- they reveal secret plots happening on a grand > > scale and describe a change in the balance of power. No, they will not > > *change everything*. But something will give. You'll cheer when your most > > disliked Superior is displaced. You'll whine unbelievably when your favorite > > Superior is displaced. That's the breaks in the Cold Celestial War. > > THe supp plan sounds really interesting for those already in the game, > but if superiosrs are being displaced, doesn't this mean that the basic In > Nomine book will be rendered innaccurate? Won't that make it difficult > for new players to get in on the game? Not at all. Any new player can just ask the GM what Superiors are available. Presumably, if they are following the Cycle, that GM would have the appropriate book. Anyone who makes up a character without consulting the GM and expects it to be universally usable in all campaigns will be sorely disappointed! (This applies to ALL games, not just In Nomine!) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:45:37 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Questions... On Apr 25, 11:24am, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Subject: IN> Vessel Questions... > Some questions *I* have had (and my personal preferences for > answers... ;-) ). > > Do Vessels suffer Fatigue-effects? Or do they just keep going and > going and going? (Probably *feeling* tired once they're out of > Essence...) [My preference: Fatigue? What's fatigue? We can trek > forever if we have to, just keep breathing.] No fatigue, no need for sleep, food, or drink. Fresh air, plenty of exercise and occasionally whomping up on Celestials from the opposite camp are all they need. ;) > Do Vessels "feel" extremes of weather that are below the "damage" > threshold? (I.e., *maybe* heatstroke and frostbite, certainly things > like flamethrowers and the hypothetical ice dagger...) [My preference: > you can see a celestial in shorts in anything but below-freezing > weather that would take out toes, or in a fur coat in anything up > to 100F. They can *feel* temperature, and dress appropriately, but > it doesn't discomfit them as badly as a human.] Extremes of weather have almost no effect unless they are _extreme_. Your guidelines above are appropriate. (I'm nearly tempted to say anything up to 212F, but that may or may not be reasonable.) > Do Vessels get sick, or contract "social diseases"? (Who, me, play > Lilim?) [My pref: No.] Can they be carriers of disease? [My pref: > maybe, not sure. A Song of Healing would probably fix it, though, > if they could.] I say no, but it is possible to be a carrier, if only for a short time. (Much in the same way that a knife can 'carry' salmonella germs.) If someone sneezes on your character and then someone else gets near enough to him/her/it to pick up the viruses, they could get a disease. The diseases will not grow in the Celestial's body. There are/will be diseases that specifically affect Celestials, though! It's an ugly war and germ warfare is not out of the question. Talk to Michael and he'll give you an earful. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:16:24 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> The Undead On Apr 26, 11:25am, Roger Carbol wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> The Undead > Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: > > > On page 193, it's presented as a disadvantage of being undead that > > "...should the undead vessel be destroyed, the soul is gone as well." > > > I say this isn't a disadvantage...It's a feature. > > > Still, though: just how do you really know those undead souls are > being destroyed? I have a plotline that should amuse some of you. The Forces are bound to the flesh and are disbanded when the flesh is destroyed... USUALLY. Particularly powerful undead can enhance the bonds to the point that even this will not cause their Forces to disband, merely become quiescent. In other words, a special ritual of some sort is required to finally kill the thing (or blowing away all its Celestial forces). The basic idea for the plotline is that a powerful mummy _seriously_ pissed of his superior and to avoid the wrath he had himself killed (and dismembered) in a special ritual and parts of his body were taken to remote sites. The superior couldn't find the servitor and the rumors of his 'death' were easily verified. After quite a few years (anything from decades to centuries depending on your whim), the servants (or their descendents) are finally able to start bringing their 'god' back together again. Or perhaps it's a power-hungry minor demon or even a foolish human adventurer. For the _really_ twisted GMs, see if you can convince a party of PC angels to do it for you! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:46:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Faith (and Lilim Questions) According to my father, who knows Hebrew, the singular of "lilim" would be "lil." If you don't like that, I recommend "lilite," and an analogous "shedite/shedim" for those who don't care to refer to a really nasty demon as a "shed." Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:16:10 +0000 From: KyleW@mail.myriad.net Subject: Re: IN> Looking for an IN PBEM Me as well, I wouldnt mind a PBEM of In Nomine either ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:10:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #132 On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 2:07 PM -0500 4/25/97, Shadowcat wrote: > >On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > >> And then there's the one in XXXenophile... > > > > You meen "End Game" in Issue 4? [...] > > Yup! And then there's the 18-and-over-only picture at > http://www.xxxenophile.com/ -- the art gallery place has > a couple of Lust Servitors... I like those two, they will make an interesting addition to my IN/XXXenophile deck. It needs more angels thought. The Amgel from the back of the Big Book O' Fun would be nice. Has anyone tried to convert any of the XXXenophile demons over to IN ? If I get some work done I need to do, I may try a crack at it. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:51:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Know The Enemy #5-#10, #14 On Sun, 27 Apr 1997, Kim Foster wrote: > Could someone send me the rest of this? > > > >Know The Enemy It's all archived on my web page; the http address is in my sigfile below. I also expect that it will appear on Archangel Beth's page soon as well. There is a link to her page from mine. Paul Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 12:02 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Questions... >Keep breathing? Ha. Angels can walk across the bottoms of oceans, >let alone valleys of death. Not to mention stride across the >surface of the moon. I believe the IN book states that angels must still breathe, though they're exempted from most other bodily processes. (I assume this is mostly so they're subject to things like tear gas and chloroform.) Which brings up the whole point of drugs and poisons. I've been assuming that if a celestial does ingest something, then it will affect them mostly as it would affect a human. I.e., angels can get drunk, high, or be poisoned. (I think there's some support for this in the stories, and certainly the Remnant example gets drunk, though Remnants are a special case.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 11:55 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> The Undead [nofori:] > On page 193, it's presented as a disadvantage of being undead that >"...should the undead vessel be destroyed, the soul is gone as well." > > I say this isn't a disadvantage...It's a feature. [stuff on disbanding being better than Hell deleted for brevity] While this is mostly true from the *character's* point of view, it may be more of a disadvantage from the *player's" viewpoint. If your Forces aren't dispersed, there's a chance the character can continue in the game, in some fashion. Humans in Heaven apparently can sometimes participate in the War; presumably Hell has some better use for its more-effective mortal servitors than as a source of Forces and Essence. "It's hard to find good help these days...." Admittedly the basic book doesn't encourage mortal PCs continuing after they die, but the possibility is there, I think. This possibility isn't open to undead, though. > My soul's ripped apart, and dissipates. Sure, that's >bad...but, at least in my opinion, the alternative is worse. And, at least, >if I do eventually get sick of serving Saminga, I have nothing worse than >sweet oblivion wating for me...If I can do myself in. Though if I recall the text correctly, the people who tend to undergo this process are primarily those to whom the thought of dying is unacceptible. > Yes, my chances of redemption, should I ever decide I need it, are >probably somewhat better if I remain mortal, but the likeliehood of me >successfully staying out of Hell if I've already done enough for Saminga to >warrant Mummification is rather low. I've probably Sealed my Fate. If I understand the theology correctly, this isn't true -- Redemption is *always* possible if the person truly repents of his past sins, regardless of how bad they are. It's true that if you warrant Mummification, you're probably not the sort of person who *will* repent, but it's not how bad you've been, but how sincere you are about repenting of your past behavior. Or so I understand God's viewpoint -- your Archangel's viewpoint may vary. (I suspect most of the war faction mostly would rather toast you than have you repent.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 12:45 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur > Who would angle for the Word of Anarchy, Hmm is that Divine or >Dabolic :) It's essentially Lilith's Word -- look at her Rites and invocation modifiers. Janus also seems to have some connection with anarchy, or at least the overturning of the status quo (which isn't necessarily the same thing as anarchy, but is often related...). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:24:12 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: IN>Bestiary: the Gabriel Hounds The Gabriel Hounds: IN LORE, the Gabriel Hounds, known also as the Gabriel Ratchets or Rackets, were the hunting hounds of Heaven, that made an unholy noise when on the hunt. I personally believe this to be a Christianized version of the Celtic Wild Hunt. they were later explained away as wild geese honking while flying overhead at night, when the sound, so familiar by daylight, took on an eerie, otherworldly quality. IN THE GAME: the Gabriel Hounds, despite the name, are the "departed" souls of Soldiers who served Jordi in life. caught at the very moment of their death, these Soldiers have qualified for Heavenly Reward, but not for Sainthood. this additional, voluntary term of service is their chance to earn an upgrade. unlike the Undead, whose souls are destroyed when slain, the Hounds will continue their Ascent to Heaven and beyond the sure knowledge of the First Heaven's Angels, except possibly for Yves, who is saying. this guaranteed Ascent is one of the perks of working for Heaven. Note: their souls do come undone if they are made to Fall--Jordi's Blessing doesn't follow them to Hell. upon accepting Jordi's offer, the soul of the dead Soldier is Blessed by Jordi,causing it to be reformed into a canine form appropriate to the character of the Soldier--a peerless tracker may find him/herself a bloodhound, a fighter par excellence may become a Doberman or a Rottweiler, etc... the Hound will continue to wear this form until they have attained Sainthood, are slain, or have served a term of years equal to their human lifespan. the Hounds exists simultaneously on both the Corporeal and Ethereal Planes, so fleeing by going Ethereal is useless. this does mean they can be hit from both planes simultaneously, however. {the Demon whose Word is Game-Balance made me write that--tom} they have a vicious bite that does either Ethereal or Corporeal damage, depending on the state of existence of their target. they may NOT follow their target to Heaven or Hell, since the Celestial Forces that are the trademark of the Soldier, have been effectively "leashed" to the Corp. and Eth. Planes. this bite does +2 damage, either corporeally or ethereally, with appropriate fighting skill, if possessed during their human lifespan, also being added. very few get this, since few humans learn to attack by biting and clawing, but it will be a Soldier of Jordi, if any. they have one special Song, though it actually works like a Perception-based Resonance: once given the Corporeal scent of a target to track, unless the target goes Celestial, they can track it wherever it leads, like a Cherub's Attunement, even if the trail leads to the Ethereal Marches. like Perception-based Resonances, their Song makes no disturbance of the Symphony, unless they spend Essence to boost their chances of successfully using this Song. Hounds do have the habit, treat as a mental Discord/Habit, of "sounding off" once they make actual visual contact with their target. targets with the appropriate Songs, Attunements, Resonances, or Distinctions may attempt to hide themselves--treat this as a standard Opposed roll, with the higher CD prevailing. the Hounds may hide their passing from sight, by shifting their _visible_ form to the Ethereal Plane, though this masking does not work on the eyes of those possessing Celestial Forces, who can see "beyond sight". this masking trick does not change their dual-planar existence, nor does it prevent them from being heard. if they are trying to sneak, they must also be careful not to run into things--their bodies still possess substance, even if it isn't visible. knocking over trash cans, or whatever else gets in their way, can spoil an otherwise perfect stalk, giving their target time to try to get away, to escape. the Hounds give Jordi leverage to use in Heavenly politics, since a pack of Shetland-pony sized canines that can track like a Cherub without suffering dissonance when they attack the subject of their Song tends to be a well-regarded commodity/service that Jordi isn't above taking advantage of. this also gives Jordi's Soldiers something to look forward to after Death and lends them a distinctive flavor from any other Superior's Soldiers. Character group seed: one of Jordi's Servitors as a handler/agent--the "dogs" don't really need a trainer/handler, but Jordi sends one of his own along to run interference for them and keep them from being used in ways he doesn't approve of. 1 angel of Jordi, 2-4 Hounds, and at least one angel of the Superior the Hounds are on loan to. the missions the group is given will depend on who is borrowing the Hounds--Novalis may want to use them to track down a toxic-waste dumper, while Dominic has been known to negotiate for their use in tracking down Outcasts who don't want to be found. Eli has even borrowed them from time to time to locate one of his toys, when they get out of hand, since the Hounds' Song works equally well on objects as on people, subject to there being an actual physical scent to start from, though once they have the scent, they actually seem to be tracking their target's Essence-tial being. the Hounds are one reason the other Archangels don't completely "write-off" Jordi as unnecessary and irrelevant. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #143 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.