From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Apr 29 10:56:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09271 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:56:29 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01109 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:23:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:23:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199704291423.JAA01109@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #144 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, April 29 1997 Volume 01 : Number 144 In this digest: Re: IN> The Undead [none] IN> songs? IN> Test [none] Re: IN> songs? [none] Re: IN> Mailing List Re: IN> Thanatos, Archangel of Death Re: IN> What's in a Sin? Re: IN> INC archives search engine?? Re: IN> Another Take on Faith: Why Angels Hide Word of Anarchy (Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur) Re: IN> Re:Demon Prince Bazur Odd notions (Re: IN> Faiths) Re: IN> Vessel Questions... Re: IN> Vessel Questions... IN>Kobalic Humour... IN> Re: Dominic: Know Your Diabolicals request Re: IN> The Undead Re: IN> Looking for an IN PBEM IN>Word needed Re: IN> What's in a Sin? New Angel (was: Re: IN> The Undead) Re: Word of Anarchy (Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur) IN> Re: In Nomine Combat IN> The IN Collections IN> Skill Rolls, Getting Things done. Re: IN>Word needed IN> The Angel of Roses (long) IN> The Demon of Romance (long) Re: Word of Anarchy (Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur) IN> Original Sin Re: IN> songs? Re: IN> Original Sin IN> Character sheet updated Re: IN>Word needed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:46:52 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> The Undead shades of the Osiris myth. i'd guess John K has been sniffing the binding of the Egyptology books again. the last twist is vicious, I like that in someone else's GM! tom, the Vicious GM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:49:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Corey Subject: [none] Hey Archangel Beth, if, by the fates' whim, you should find the time, could you do a Know the enemy from Dominic's point of view. Thanks in advance. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:49:33 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: IN> songs? i have a question for those with more wisdom than i. in IN the songs usually have three versions. do the different versions have to be used on their respective planes (corporeal song on the corporeal plane) or can any be used anywhere? jahon the wonderer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:22:10 -0400 From: "Joshua Mosqueira" Subject: IN> Test ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:21:13 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: [none] i have a question for those who have a system for combat. i have run a few games of IN but combat is a bitch!! i have started adding strength into damage becuase otherwise a fistfight could go on for days. if anyone out there has a good working system, please post it up! jahon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:13:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> songs? On Mon, 28 Apr 1997 gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > i have a question for those with more wisdom than i. in IN the songs > usually have three versions. do the different versions have to be used on > their respective planes (corporeal song on the corporeal plane) or can > any be used anywhere? For the most part anywhere, but there exceptions with certain songs. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:38:30 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: [none] to whom it may concern: i posted a message about the werewolves in kentucky mythos, but cannot find the book at the store i saw it in. it was at barnes and nobels in cincinnati at kenwood mall but they sold all the copies(i looked but never asked the clerks) if you are still interested i am going to check another B&N around the area. sorry for the wait. i am still looking! jahon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:20:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mailing List At 5:26 PM -0400 4/27/97, MBrittan@aol.com wrote: >Jason Hall >23705 Vassar >Hazel Park, MI 48030 I hope that someone is keeping track of these newbies and sending them the *correct* way to sign up? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:51:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Thanatos, Archangel of Death At 2:13 PM -0500 4/25/97, Shadowcat wrote: >On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, tom timberlake wrote: > >> I don't know how, but you beat me to it! [...] >> he was also going to be known as the Angel of Release, not >> Death---release from pain, from consciousness through the little death >> of sleep, and from life when the time arrived. [...] > > What about "Le Patit Mort" ?? ;-) and no I don't meen a little >short guye in a hooded robe with a scycle, though the one on XXXenophile # >9 is cute. What's wrong with Le Petit Mort from XXXenophile #9? (Or a card, IIRC.) Though I suspect, from Rites and oppositions, that this would be an Angel of Creation... > Now see what you got me started on AchBeth. ;-P (:O:) (Kyrio smiley #3) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:40:04 -0500 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> What's in a Sin? >>From: John Maurer >>Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Idea: The End of the Rainbow? >> >>At 10:04 PM 4/26/97 -0400, Frederic Bush wrote: >> >>>Ezeqeel and Ezoiil never lost their friendship. Ezoiil, Angel of the >>>Deluge, has been growing more and more restive lately. He realizes >>>objectively that God has authority over him and he may not destroy mortal >>>sinners without God's word, but he grows angry at the evils he sees on the >>>planet. Sin, licentiousness, and rampant homosexuality, the sin of Sodom, >> >>A good scenario I think, but just to make a theological point: I have read >>(and I am certain Moriah will correct me if I am wrong). That the sin of >>Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality. The sin of sodom was >>inhospitality. Until the middle ages, to do a "sodomy" to someone was to do >>them an unkindnes. It was not until King James (who was a closet homosexual >>himself) that the word took on its current leanings to anal penetration. >> >>This is not to say that god is necessarily keen on the whole homosexual >>issue. In exodus he did recommend death to men who lie with men as women. >>He just didn't destroy Sodom and Gommorah over it. > > Well, since I was asked... > > Same sex relationships is definitely a no-no for >both Testaments. No amount of re-interpretation will get around that. Among >the scholars of the mainline Christian faiths (who are not afraid to say when >the Scriptures contradicts Church moral teaching) this is a period. Period. > > However, with the Sodom thing, it is true that Sodom's sin was >inhospitality. However, the Sodomites were being inhospitable by attempting >sodomy on unwilling guests. So, that's two no-no's. > > Double however, the Scriptures presents slavery as an acceptable part of >society -- which we all agree is not Good. To pull out a scriptural >prescription and to use that as an absolute moral guide should be >reprehensible to any mainline Christian, though it is common practice among >fundamentalist Christians. This applies to scriptural practices of slavery, >monarchism, sexism, genocide, war, life issues, and sexual mores. That is >why the Roman Catholic Church does not buy into 'sola scriptura'; for the >RC's, it is 'Scripture *and* Tradition' which guides moral doctrine. > > > Relating this to IN NOMINE: Please don't say that This or That is immoral >or evil and that is why Celestial X hates it. Rather, say that Celestial X >regards This or That as immoral or evil and because of their opinion, that is >why they hate it. > >Peace, > >Moriah > > I'll bet you a cyber-nickel that this is going to turn into a long discussion thread about Homosexuality, as a sin or not? or, rather, as an evil or not? - -Daiv (who needs to get a life only slightly less than a masters degree) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:15:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> INC archives search engine?? At 11:07 PM -0500 4/26/97, tom timberlake wrote: >question for AA Beth, and an opportunity to plug the INC: does it have a >search function that will let me check quickly to see if anyone has >contributed a write-up on the Gabriel Hounds/Gabriel Rackets already? Nope! I don't think so. (This is one reason why my being distracted by my Huntington is a problem for my web-page care -- I keep a lot of data in my head.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:11:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Another Take on Faith: Why Angels Hide At 3:04 AM -0400 4/27/97, Paul F. Strack wrote: [...] >However, motivations are extremely important with Grace. You cannot >simply do good because God tells you so, or because you hope to get into >Heaven. In order to obtain Grace, you must do good because it is the >right thing to do, regardless of reward. Yes, yes, yes... This is something that I'm hoping to have one of my characters wrestle with, in a RL game sometime. A demon who despairs of redemption, for she does something good, and immediately starts thinking of all the selfish reasons why she might have done it. "No hope of Heaven, no hope in Hell." (Of course, most of the time she tries not to think of what she's doing in the long-term implications... Azzi's lot would like to get their fangs into her, if they knew.) At the pre-game moment, she hasn't gotten to this self-realization yet (especially the bit in the quotes). I'm looking forward to her reaching it someday, kicking and fighting. I like this sort of answer, as you might be able to guess... ;-) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:38:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Word of Anarchy (Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur) At 7:51 PM +1000 4/28/97, Peter Frederick wrote: > Who would angle for the Word of Anarchy, Hmm is that Divine or >Dabolic :) It's Lilith's. };> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:19:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re:Demon Prince Bazur At 4:09 PM -0400 4/27/97, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: >Valefor: Not sure here either. Hostile -- Keep moving or die, and standing in line to turn in your forms... :-p >Lilith: If he is a Lilim, I could see Lilith being resentful at her son's >climb to power..Hostile in that case,. Bureaucracy tends to cramp her style. Outright enemy. "You take my Word and go against it like *that*??" Freedom and Bureaucracy do *not* go together naturally. More like nitro and glycerin. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:06:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Odd notions (Re: IN> Faiths) At 9:34 PM -0400 4/25/97, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: [...] > Now you've hit upon one of my pet peeves. These Christian celebrations >have certainly incorporated some symbols and rituals which were once part of >earlier Pagan celebrations, but these Christian celebrations did *not* evolve >out of earlier Pagan celebrations *at all*. Swiped the date, didn't evolve from. (I fear I always thought this was a slightly dirty trick, myself.) Nuances, but valid and important ones. [...] >>The war might be boiled down to literally what "Gods" have the most >>followers. > > That sort of world where belief creates reality is part of the Mage >world. It is not part of the official IN NOMINE world, except for that maybe >some Ethereal Spirits claim that's the way it is, and it might be, but >everything else points to the Christian Mythos as being stable and >unaffected by belief. For some reason, I am getting a strange notion that the In Nomine universe would not conflict with a "belief" system which was ... Drat. Can't articulate it. Here, an example -- if all of a sudden the Christian religion was wiped away and replaced with Wodan and crowd, this would not necessarily mean that our favorite angels (or demons) would alter their basic natures, nor even necessarily their tasks, goals, and methods. *Humans* would merely start calling them different things, and intrepreting some of their actions slightly differently. I think this is the "There is a little Truth in nearly everything" approach, which has already been hinted at, if not outright stated, by the In Nomine book. Sort of like Warrior Nun #1, where the defected Valkyrie appears and the quasi-demonic fellow calls her Valkyrie, and the first Areala whispers, "An angel!" In the Warrior Nun universe, the celestial *was* a Valkyrie who chose a path of Christianity -- *AND* an angel, because of her choice. In an IN universe, I'd be willing to look at it that way -- celestials fit themselves into human beliefs almost as much as they influence human beliefs. It's simpler that way. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:32:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Questions... At 10:30 PM -0400 4/26/97, Kim Foster wrote: >At 11:24 AM 4/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >>And we already know they can't get pregnant unless they want to... > > >They can get pregnant? Yes. Go to the INC2 pages, and look for "A Little Problem." That was nearly in the book somewhere. Mind you, *what* the chances are of getting a celestial offspring are (if you can do it at all), what it takes to manage in the first place, etc., are all subjects of extreme debate... Have you found the digests yet? You might *strongly* want to check those out, so you can see what's gone on before without having to ask about our little "in-jokes" (there were a *lot* of posts on the mechanics of pregnant celestials!). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:30:35 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vessel Questions... At 11:16 AM -0700 4/26/97, Roger Carbol wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> Do Vessels suffer Fatigue-effects? Or do they just keep going and >> going and going? (Probably *feeling* tired once they're out of >> Essence...) [My preference: Fatigue? What's fatigue? We can trek >> forever if we have to, just keep breathing.] > >Keep breathing? Ha. Angels can walk across the bottoms of oceans, >let alone valleys of death. Not to mention stride across the >surface of the moon. > >Or at least they can in my little corner of the IN multiverse. Your >celestial mileage may vary. Well, it *does* state in the The Book that they have to keep breathing, though they don't have to eat or drink... p. 48, sidebox. If they're in a vessel, that is. Yours sound mildly scary... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:46:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@AOL.COM Subject: IN>Kobalic Humour... A BALSERAPH SERVANT OF KOBAL'S IDEA OF FUN IS... Crossing Dominic with Jean to get a light bulb that never goes out - just in case. Sending Laurence copies of 'Robin of Sherwood' until he gets the joke. Telling Haagenti there's an all-you-can-eat offer in Novalis' flower garden. Phoning Jordi and yelling 'SIT' down the phone. Telling Jean you've found a loose wire - but not telling him where. Telling a Kyriotate to pull himself together. Telling Michael you've got the dirt on Yves, and he can have it for the reasonable price of... Phoning Yves, saying 'I know' and putting the phone down. Making a collect call to Heaven from Lucifer's personal phone. Graffitiing 'Jericho Rocks' on Michael's wall. Cymrys 'Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Prank a Malakite, and you're on your own...' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:45:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: Dominic: Know Your Diabolicals request At 1:49 PM -0500 4/28/97, Corey wrote: > Hey Archangel Beth, if, by the fates' whim, you should find the >time, could you do a Know the enemy from Dominic's point of view. Thanks >in advance. Dommie, eh? Well, I suppose I've been trying to wrap my head around the concept of Judgment as they see themselves... Sure. I'll take a stab at it sometime in the next few days. (Been doing some stuff for a GURPS Space game recently. Build a whole culture and government in your head for fun and...fun!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:43:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Undead At 9:10 AM -0400 4/26/97, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: [very insightful and interesting stuff clipped] > So, my choices are, after death, are be destroyed utterly, or spend time >in Hell before being destroyed utterly, or spend Eternity in Hell. Assuming >that knowledge is imparted, and I'm thinking about the future, I see the >soul-destorying thing as a perk, not a flaw. Very good points. *Very* good points. At 12:46 PM -0500 4/28/97, tom timberlake wrote: >shades of the Osiris myth. i'd guess John K has been sniffing the binding of >the Egyptology books again. the last twist is vicious, I like that in someone >else's GM! Thanks... (She says, manifesting as the Bright Lilim in John K's game...) >tom, the Vicious GM adventures in babysitting!> (Please, send me email... I have got to hear that.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 18:20:49 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Looking for an IN PBEM At 06:48 PM 4/27/97 -0400, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >Count me in as well, I'd like to have a crack at that me too kestre1@aol.com ;> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:14:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: IN>Word needed Does anyone have a suggestion for Word bound Celestial under the following Superiors: Andrephealus Dominc Novalis Any and all would be appreciated,even those that are slightly "silly" :) I'd give my right arm to be ambidexterous! Crowe T. Robot-MST 3K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 18:21:03 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> What's in a Sin? At 02:30 AM 4/28/97 EDT, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: > Relating this to IN NOMINE: Please don't say that This or That is immoral >or evil and that is why Celestial X hates it. Rather, say that Celestial X >regards This or That as immoral or evil and because of their opinion, that is >why they hate it. For an in-game example, reference the Bright Lilim. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 18:20:48 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: New Angel (was: Re: IN> The Undead) The title's not misleading. Remiel, Set Over Those Who Rise Malakim of the Sword Forces: Corporeal: 6 Etheral: 5 (Int: 8, Pre:12) Celestial: 6 Songs: Form (All)/4, Healing (All)/6, Light (Corporeal, Celestial)/3, Movement (All)/4, Projection (All)/6 Shields (All)/5, Thunder/4, Tongues(All)/4 Numinous Corpus: Claws/5, Feet/4, Horns/3, Wings/6 Skills: Acrobatics/5, Climbing/3, Detect Lies/5, Dodge/4, Fighting/6, Large Weapon/6, Medicine/6, Running/5, Small Weapon/6, Tactics/4, Throwing/6, Tracking/6 Attunements: All Applicable Choir Attunements of Laurence, Blade Blessing of Laurence, Hunt, Master of the Armies of God, Malakim of Fire, Malakim of War, Malakim of Destiny, Angel of the Arisen Special Rites: By overseeing an induction of a truly worthy mortal into the Legion of the Dead, Remiel gains 1 Essence. His followers gain Essence for destroying Undead: 1 for Zombi, 2 for vampires or mummies. Once renowned for his beauty, Remiel is now crisscrossed with scars from his many battles against the Infernal forces (as well as the occasional Divine attack). As cold to emotion as any in the Elohim, Remiel is quite possibly the largest of the rare rifts between Laurence and Dominic, for Laurence has granted Remiel the ability to create Undead in the name of Heaven. Countless times, Dominic has accused Remiel of heresy, but each time Remiel has emerged. He and his few followers must be unswaveringly loyal to Heaven, lest they be condemned for the most minor of infractions. Not surprisingly, Remiel's favored often find themselves fighting the Infernal Undead. As Angel of the Arisen, Remiel can bind souls into their physical forms in such a way that the human survives death, much like the mummies. Unlike mummies, however, Remiel's Legion of Dead can be raised after death, and are never forced to become vampires or Zombi; the Attunement always succeeds if the subject is willing (otherwise, it fails and Remiel gains Dissonance). Unfortunately, a Legionnaire who dies has his or her soul dispersed throughout the universe upon death, as is the price for their power (scattered stories of Arisen who die willingly maintain this is not always true). Remiel rarely chooses to create new undead these days; too often, in the past, the power has corrupted or good men have met hideous fates at the hands of Saminga's warriors. When he does deign to raise the dead, Remiel is just as likely to choose a musician unjustly killed as he is to use battle-hardened warriors. The Legion of the Dead are usually loyal to Remiel before Laurence, much to both angels' chagrin. His followers, while unable to create Undead themselves, are usually informed of the presence of Legionairres and are often granted artifacts to slay Infernal Undead. Remiel's followers, though nominally of Laurence's ilk, are treated as Hostiles by followers of Dominic. Remiel's angels are expected to be Neutral towards Dominic, as Remiel has neither forgiven Dominic for the Archangel's attacks nor does he desire further ones. As Remiel is exceptionally choosey about his followers (at their height during World War II, their numbers were higher than any time since Christ's birth at five angels and forty Legionnaires). It is unlikely that any Angel of the Sword without a distinction will ever be considered by Remiel. Bonus Essence to the first person who can name the two most important comics I drew from to create Remiel. Kestrel, who can do good guys, too ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 23:45:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Thany Subject: Re: Word of Anarchy (Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur) On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 7:51 PM +1000 4/28/97, Peter Frederick wrote: > > Who would angle for the Word of Anarchy, Hmm is that Divine or > >Dabolic :) > It's Lilith's. };> But, by following this particular Word under any Archangel/Prince would be a contradiction of the Word itself. (...by the same principle that disqualified me for the Word of Apathy. Phooey. :P) - -- "Illuminati Do they truly rule the world? You're not cleared to know." Disclaimer: They're my opinions, but they're your problem. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 01:00:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: IN> Re: In Nomine Combat At 03:21 PM 4/28/97 -0400, you wrote: > >i have a question for those who have a system for combat. i have run a >few games of IN but combat is a bitch!! i have started adding strength >into damage becuase otherwise a fistfight could go on for days. if anyone >out there has a good working system, please post it up! I have toyed with idea of adding str to HTH and Pre to Ranged. I'd give my right arm to be ambidexterous! Crowe T. Robot-MST 3K ------------------------------ Date: 29 Apr 97 01:47:07 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> The IN Collections OK, can someone tell me who has what collections of IN stuff at what sites and their current state (under construction [yes, all sites are under construction, but I mean *really* under construction]; moving; maintained by X; etc...). I'd like to get our Official Site to point to you guys, but I'm getting confused as to who's who. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 01:56:06 -0500 From: Scott Turnbull Subject: IN> Skill Rolls, Getting Things done. Just wondering if anyone had the same perception as I when it comes to general systematic successes in IN. It seems that accomplishing tasks are just way too hard, especially for 'mundanes'. As stated in the IN book a stat of 3 is considered average for a human. This plain means that normal folk have an almost nil chance of succeeding at anything unless they have a considerable skill in it. Case in point for me was in the IN game I play in..... A character with a 3 Agl and no climbing skill wanted to climb an 8 foot chainlink fence. Given the default for climb of (Agl-1) the chance is a 2 on 2d6!!! Even if the GM rules its an easy task and give the +2, it's still only a 4 or less on 2d6. It seems to me the system wise IN trying to make Celestials out to be the 'average' person, since the Angelic average for a stat is 6 (still only giving a 50-50 chance). Meanwhile the average man is little better then a slug who probably couldn't succeed in getting a newspaper out of a dispencer if he had to roll for it. It seems IN has some difficulty letting miraculous celestial beings be miraculous celestial beings, when it comes to average, or simple tasks. What seems to be an almost 'fear of player success' built into the game mechanics makes for a strange outcome for the different populations of the gameworld. Just wondering on other folks thoughts about this and/or how they have seen it delt with. Cheers, Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:36:05 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN>Word needed On Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:14:00 -0400 (EDT), Kim Foster wrote: >Does anyone have a suggestion for Word bound Celestial under the following >Superiors: Andrephealus Duke of Prostitution, Duke of Adultery (lower ranks by location) Duke of Venereal Disease (lower ranks by disease) Baron(?) of VD Treatments (But Not Cures) Demon of Research Sabotage Duke of Addiction (lower ranks by type of addiction or drug) Duke of Avarice (lower ranks by unscrupulous activities) > Dominc Ambassador of the Inquisition (among angels) Ambassador of Prosecution (prosecution within legal system) (lower ranks by jurisdiction) Ambassador(?) of Defenders (defense of innocents within legal system) (lower ranks by jurisdiction) Ambassador(?) of Law (conforms human law to Dominic's--uh, Heaven's) Ambassador(?) of Retribution (punishment of legal but immoral acts) (lower ranks by the offense for which retribution is exacted) Master(?) of Karma (punishment of minor offenses) (lower ranks by location) > Novalis Ambassador of Diplomacy (lower ranks by fora: UN etc.) Ambassador of Negotiation Master of Arbitration Ambassadors of Forests, Plains, Deserts, Highlands, Gardens, etc. (lower ranks by locale protected) Master of Defection (of Demons--an Ambassador would tick off Dominic) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:59:35 -0500 From: Carmen Clemons Subject: IN> The Angel of Roses (long) Hi all! Take a look and tell me what you think. Ruzael The Angel of Roses Bright Lilim Master of Flowers Corporeal Forces 4 Strength 8 Agility 8 Ethereal Forces 4 Intelligence 10 Precision 6 Celestial Forces 5 Will 8 Perception 12 Vessel Human/4, Charisma +4 Rosebush/3 Roles Antonette Mead, Florist, Status 2, Level 5 Dr. Thornton Holt, Marriage Counselor, Status 5, Level 3 Bob, Bartender, Status 2, Level 2 Skills Artistry (Floral Arrangement) 6, Dodge 1, Emote 5, Fighting 1, Knowledge (Psychology) 3, Medicine 3, Savoir-Faire 6, Seduction 5 Songs Attraction (Corporeal/2, Ethereal/4, Celestial/6), Dreams (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3, Celestial/3), Form (Ethereal/4, Celestial/5), Healing (Ethereal/4), Tongues (Corporeal/4, Celestial/2) Attunements Mercurian of Flowers, Kyriotate of Flowers, Vassal of Flowers, Friend of the Gardeners, Master of Peace, Crown of Joy, Angel of Roses Special Rite As the Angel of Roses, Ruzael gains 1 Essence whenever he spends at least one hour creating a floral arrangement for a pair of lovers. The arrangement must contain at least a dozen roses, and Ruzael cannot accept any payment for the gift. Ruzael started as one of Andre's Lilim, and became the original Demon of Romance. For centuries, he excelled at perverting the feelings of mortals. Around the beginning of the twelfth century, Ruzael started to work on the feelings of a petty European noble by seducing his lady, but every time he tried to seduce the lady, one of her ladies-in-waiting would interfere. After the third time she got in his way, he looked in the lady-in-waiting's eyes and invoked his resonance. He discovered that the pesky lady-in-waiting was none other than Novalis herself, and that her current need was for the noble couple to fall in love. Ruzael quickly decided that an Archangel's geas was worth more than yet another corrupt noble. He dropped his plans and started working alongside Novalis. Getting the noble to truly fall in love took quite some time, but the two of them eventually succeeded at the task. After the two left the noble's house, Novalis turned to Ruzael and asked him what he wanted in return for his help. Ruzael thought a moment, and realized working with the Archangel had changed him more than he thought. He took a deep breath, and asked Novalis to take him on as one of her Servitors. She smiled and agreed. Since that time, Ruzael has served Novalis faithfully. He has slowly risen through the ranks, and Novalis granted him the Word of Roses in the late nineteenth century. His Word gives him the ability to create a rose that will temporarily inspire feelings of love and peace in all who see or smell it. When he first went Bright, he told the Archangels the details of every Diabolical plan he knew. Many demons would like to see his untimely demise, and Andrealphus has promised a boon to the demon who brings Ruzael to him in Hell. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 04:07:44 -0500 From: Carmen Clemons Subject: IN> The Demon of Romance (long) Well, here's another one, the counterpart to my Angel of Roses. What do you think? Lenore The Demon of Romance Balseraph Baron of Lust Corporeal 4 Strength 8 Agility 8 Ethereal 4 Intelligence 7 Precision 9 Celestial 5 Will 12 Perception 8 Vessel Human/6, Charisma +4 Skills Acrobatics 3, Detect Lies 4, Dodge 1, Emote 6, Escape 3, Fast-Talk 4, Fighting 4, Move Silently 1, Savoir-Faire 6, Seduction 6 Songs Attraction (Ethereal/5), Charm (All/3), Dreams (Corporeal/2, Ethereal/1, Celestial/5), Entropy (Ethereal/3, Celestial/4), Possession/4, Tongues (Corporeal/2), Form (Celestial/6) Attunements Balseraph of Lust, Djinn of Lust, Knight of Infernal Pleasures, Captain of Diabolical Delight, Baron of Eternal Ecstasy, Dark Desire, Kiss of Death, Demon of Romance Special Rite As the Demon of Romance, Lenore gains 1 Essence if she makes a human fall in love (not just believe she's in love) in an abusive relationship. If she can do this to an Angel, she gains 2 Essence. Lenore was originally assigned to work for Ruzael, when he was Demon of Romance. After he defected, she managed to complete some of Andre's plans that Ruzael had tried to sabotage. In return, Andre granted her the Word of Romance. Lenore has been busy since then. She works hard for her Word, perverting Romance and love by fostering abusive and sinful relationships among mortals. She often tries to close down battered women's shelters and similar support groups, and influences authority figures so that they don't consider issues such as rape and spousal abuse important. She often works with the Demon of Child Abuse, since those who were abused as children often abuse their loved ones later in life. Lenore has come into direct conflict with Servitors of Novalis, Dominic, Blandine, Yves, and Khalid. She holds a special hatred for Ruzael, the Angel of Roses, because of his betrayal in the twelfth century, and she would do almost anything to see him suffer. The Word of Romance grants Lenore a couple of abilities. Lenore can touch a person and determine that person's image of the perfect romantic partner. This works much like a Lilim's perception of a victim's need. After she has determined the victim's version of the perfect mate, she can begin to alter that image. Spending one Essence allows her to change a single detail of the victim's image. The victim can make a Will roll to resist the change. - --Carmen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:31:14 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: Word of Anarchy (Re: IN> Demon Prince Bazur) Dear Elizabeth, Thany and list At 11:45 PM 28/4/97 -0500, Thany wrote: > >On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> At 7:51 PM +1000 4/28/97, Peter Frederick wrote: > >> > Who would angle for the Word of Anarchy, Hmm is that Divine or >> >Dabolic :) > >> It's Lilith's. };> > >But, by following this particular Word under any Archangel/Prince would >be a contradiction of the Word itself. >(...by the same principle that disqualified me for the Word of Apathy. >Phooey. :P) Exactly what I was thinking. It would have to be a Free Lil with the firm friendship of both Janus and Valefor. Yours Peter (% Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:37:26 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Original Sin Dear List i know we have a couple of threads about Sin and Faith going at the momnent, but one of my (non-Net connected) players asked what was the game take on Original Sin was in In Nomine. From what I can see it isn't taken at any strength, but I am interested to see what other people think. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:48:30 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> songs? On Apr 28, 2:49pm, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > Subject: IN> songs? > > i have a question for those with more wisdom than i. in IN the songs > usually have three versions. do the different versions have to be used on > their respective planes (corporeal song on the corporeal plane) or can > any be used anywhere? Depends on the Song. For example, if you are in the Marches, the Corporeal Song of Healing doesn't have anything to work on. As far as I know most (if not all) of the Ethereal/Celestial Songs can be used on the Corporeal Plane. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:26:18 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Original Sin Moriah will be able to comment authoritatively on this, but for an amateur assessment: Almost everyone agrees that the human race is screwed up to some degree. "Original sin" is just the theological name for that cussedness in human nature that is responsible for this perpetual screwed-up-ness. The, as it were, "dynamics" of original sin vary from one specific theology to another. Calvinists have a very prominent and robust model of its works in human nature. Judaism, on the other hand, soft-pedals the issue much more, and of course does not even use the term "original sin." However, there is a traditional recogni- tion in Judaism that every human soul contains a "will to good" and a "will to evil," and this "will to evil" is at least analogous to the Christian concept of original sin. Similar analogs occur in many other theologies -- almost any theology that concerns itself at all with evil, I think. Even in Buddhism, one of the key features is that people are born to suffer, because of their attachment to illusory things and because of the karma accumulated in this and past lives. This painful dynamic of karma and attachment is, again, analogous to original sin. In monotheistic religions, original sin or its analogs trace back to Adam and Eve. Trying (probably without success) to find a least-common-denominator on the subject, I'll put it this way: modern pop psychology has made us all familiar with the concept of the dysfunctional family. Well, if we are all descended from Adam and Eve, we are all part of one very large family, loaded with dysfunction. The dysfunction is worse in some places than in others, but none of us escape is, and this all-pervading family problem of the all-pervading family is original sin. How this works into In Nomine, I'm not sure, except that it means no human character is ever altogether pure. But you weren't in much danger of making that mistake anyway, were you? Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:40:51 -0400 (EDT) From: TSRInc@aol.com Subject: IN> Character sheet updated I have updated the IN character sheet that I designed (I added a place for role, status, and charisma). It is available in PDF (Adobe Acrobat) format from the RPG section of my web page: http://users.aol.com/skreyn If you have any suggestions for the page, please let me know. Also, if you'd like it in GIF format, drop me a line and I'll upload one in that format. - - Sean ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:44:02 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN>Word needed Here are some possible Words for the Superiors mentioned: Andrephealus: - Fetishes (sub-words: leather, sheep, rubber, whips, etc.) - Weariness (incites people to cast off their lovers) - Heartbreak (rubs salt in the wounds of cast-off lovers) - Infatuation (infernal Cupid, picks out disasterous matches) Dominic: - Promises (works to see they're kept) - Honesty (a seraph, I suppose) - Honor (works to give courage to defend the right) - Equity (works closely with Marc's angels, for fair dealing) - Rights (a celestial civil-liberties advocate) Novalis: - specific classes of plants (e.g. the just-posted Angel of Roses) - Growth (of plants, naturally) - Harvest - Blossoming - Fruiting Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #144 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. 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