From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Apr 1 13:31:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15085; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:28:11 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13338 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:31:11 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:31:11 -0600 Message-Id: <199704011931.NAA13338@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #98 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, April 1 1997 Volume 01 : Number 098 In this digest: Re: Cain's mom [was IN> Re: Alu-Fiends] Re: IN> The Unredeemed: A Demonic Cabal Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Voodoo Rules Re: Cain's mom [was IN> Re: Alu-Fiends] Re: IN>Re: Cain's mom IN> Essence. IN> New Angel/ Roles. IN> Ahoy the list Re: IN>Re: Cain's mom Re: IN>Re: Cain's mom IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #97 IN> IN: Long-term Mixed Campaigns Re: IN> Essence. Re: IN> Essence. IN> Heirarchies... group project? IN> quick question IN> IN ANIME is a go! Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #97 Re: IN> IN ANIME is a go! Re: IN> IN ANIME is a go! Re: IN> IN ANIME is a go! Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #97 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:38:31 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Cain's mom [was IN> Re: Alu-Fiends] At 7:34 PM -0600 3/28/97, Russ Collins wrote: >On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> According to Gustav's Dictionary of Angels (inc. the Fallen Ones), >> there were offspring between Lilith and Adam (Cain, for one)... >> ^^^^ >My first reaction: NO WAY! I'm almost certain that Cain's mother is Eve, >just like Abel. (Of course, I'm no biblical scholar, but it certainly puts >a different spin on things if Cain and Abel aren't full brothers.) "The rabbis read Lilith into Scripture as the 1st temptress, as Adam's demon wife, and as the mother of Cain. [Rf. Thompson, _Semitic Magic_; Christian, _The History and Practice of Magic_.]" It could certainly be an interesting take to pull in a game, where "hidden celestials" weren't necessarily Grigori-kin. Even if you don't subscribe to that particular named personage being a descendant, there's still the "Accordig to Rabbi Eliezer (_The Book of Adam and Eve_), Lilith bore Adam every day 100 children." (*Not* a human wench, her!) Between Grigori and that, it's no wonder that Force/6 humans show up occasionally, eh? (And then there's a scrap of poetry I remember about this, from some other source long ago, that Lilith produced "Shapes that coiled in the woods and waters/Glittering sons and radient daughters." Which has been puttering about in my head as indicating that Lilim who use the Numinous Corpus of Wings should get *dragon* wings instead of feathered or bat-wings. (I.e., scales -- bright for Bright and dark for Dark?) As to the rest of this thread... Dear Ethereal Gods! What have I *wrought* with one little "this might be cool in a game" comment off the cuff????? And, drat it all, not one computer-religion flame, to give me Essence... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 14:41:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Unredeemed: A Demonic Cabal At 5:49 PM -0500 3/30/97, Paul F. Strack wrote: >Well, I've been lurking on this list for a few weeks, now, and I thought >I'd finally offer up a contribution. Here's an idea I've been bouncing >around for a couple of days: > >The Unredeemed I *llllliiiiiiike* it. Now, give me some stats on those characters, and I'll snarf them for my In Nomine character pages... 'Kay? [...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 14:51:13 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Roles At 4:48 PM +0000 3/30/97, Leathal Weapon wrote: >[...] Role as a Professional Assassin? >Then any killing they did of humans while being paid would have a >chance of not creating a disturbance. While we're on it, what about >Roles such as Mercenary, Serial Killer, Gangsta, Mafia Hitman etc >etc. Am I seeing an abuse of the system here, or would other GMs >allow such Roles, and just be mercilessly strict on their >enforcement? Mercilessly strict. *Mercilessly*. And at the first sign of using it as a "I can kill anyone I want 'cause I've got a Role: Criminal or Role: Psychopath" excuse, the character *will* get into deep trouble. (And I'd tell a player this up-front, too: you start doing this, and you'll get the Natural Enemies showing up -- Cops. Including celestials on the other side with Role: Cop and Songs of Attraction...) At 11:52 AM +0000 3/31/97, Leathal Weapon wrote: >I'll begin by saying this: I do NOT intend to use such a Role, the >possibility merely occurred to me so I thought I would raise it for >discussion on the list. The following replies are simply intellectual >debates. Ah, yes, that's what all Devil's Advocates say... [...] >Take another one of my suggestions as an example. Imagine an >organised crime syndicate operated by a Demon (with appropriate >Role). Under this demon are several Celestial 'Hitmen'. Now, in >theory, the Boss demon could order his hitmen to 'take out' an >individual [...] he also may not generate any disturbance, because he was >carrying out his Role and simply killing those who got in his way. If and only if the target really was getting in his way as a Mob Boss. And if and only if the target wasn't set up by the demon to get in the way of the Mob Boss (unless it was breathtakingly clever). So, if the demon thugs wander into a bar and run a protection racket, they can get away with more than if they hear that there's an "angel bar" in town and do a drive-by shooting of it without going through the protection racket, actual need to make an example of the place, etc. >> Third, a professional assassin is going to end up being locked away by the >> police. I don't want to play a celestial who is in jail. > >Only if they are caught, and honestly, with the ability to assume >Celestial form (although noisy), how long is a celestial going to be >held in gaol (or jail, for Americans)? Depends on how many relievers/imps/gremlins are hanging around watching for such noisy things. They can get away with it several times (though it might do bad things for their Role! Someone who vanishes from jail is *not* normal!), but at some point, they're going to meet the celestial hit-squad upon exiting the jail... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 13:33:34 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Voodoo Rules > > Good or Evil? > > This is the hard part, going by my arguments above. I'd suggest a > >certain uncomfortable level of cooperation between the 'higher loa', > >where they have to take responsibility for working with the servitors of > >the 'other side' upon occasion. For example, if a Bokor calls upon Ogou > >for help in murdering his enemies, Michael must (reluctantly) allow a > >Shedim to possess and assist the Bokor - that or allow one of his > >Kyriotates to do the dirty work. In all honesty, I don't like this > >idea, and any better ideas would be terrific. > > It might depend on if the enemies in question are people Michael > would like toasted anyway. If not, then you factor in how much > Michael wants to try to keep this Bokor out of The Opposition's > influence. I suspect that if he (or his proxy Kyrio) doesn't take > the Bokor up on the "offer," possessing him quickly with a stable > Kyrio, then a Shedim will move in. > > It's annoying, but if the angels didn't help out occasionally, then > the demons would get all these people easily, right? > Well, the way I see it, various voodoo practitioners will ask for favours, and offer up "something" in exchange. If one side won't answer my calls, then the other side will, right? More to the point, the Petro loa have a tendency to agree to do those "big jobs" that the Rada loa always seem reluctant to agree to. Now, neither side is claiming to be Good or Evil, but the further and further you get into debt with the Petro loa, the more favours you'll feel comfortable in asking. Suddenly, you've lost your moral metre-stick, and you wind up begging that Petro loa to kill your enemy, or secure that young wench's love, or what have you. That's when the Petro loa have you! Furthermore, since the Petro loa, who are really just a bunch of Diabolicals seen through a different cultural template, have caused you to lose your moral perspective to this degree, they are more or less assured that when you die, you're going to Hell. As a Rada loa, I would try to persuade my practitioners to keep the favours small, and keep up the "good" work. Do nice things to one another, because when you do bad stuff, it comes around and bites you! I'd do small stuff, but mostly I'd try to get the practitioners to do the majority of the leg-work themselves. The Rada loa are advisory, instructional, and moral. The Petro loa are more direct Movers and Shakers. This works the same way in the magic-systems of the Dene' tribe I'm familiar with. The elders explain to me that when one does white magic, you have good things happen to you. When one does black magic, it comes around to haunt you. Most people do a combination of the two, but SOME people eventually begin doing so much black magic that they forget the suffering they are causing, and merely focus on the gains. If a houngan eventually begins asking enough favours that he makes that leap towards being a true Bokor, then he has lost the ability to discriminate between a "little favour, which might be a little bad, and which I'll probably make up for later on with an equally Good thing...", and a "favour that I want right NOW!!". This guy's going to Hell! Thus, my job as a Rada loa is to do the little favours, and couple them with a life-lesson about the value of doing Good. If a houngan doesn't pick up on the lesson, he's in danger of "needing" bigger favours, which I'm not morally comfortable granting, and suddenly he's asking the other side for so much that they've effectively converted him. Thus, not all Rada loa favours are "passive", but they tend to be more instructional than directly influential. The Petro loa, on the other hand, are more than willing to do something MAJOR for you, with NO sense of being subtle, because they know that you'll get hooked on the "Easy Answers" that they offer to Life's problems. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:28:12 -0600 (CST) From: Russ Collins Subject: Re: Cain's mom [was IN> Re: Alu-Fiends] On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 7:34 PM -0600 3/28/97, Russ Collins wrote: > >On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> According to Gustav's Dictionary of Angels (inc. the Fallen Ones), > >> there were offspring between Lilith and Adam (Cain, for one)... > >> ^^^^ > >My first reaction: NO WAY! I'm almost certain that Cain's mother is Eve, > >just like Abel. (Of course, I'm no biblical scholar, but it certainly puts > >a different spin on things if Cain and Abel aren't full brothers.) > > "The rabbis read Lilith into Scripture > as the 1st temptress, as Adam's demon wife, and as the mother > of Cain. [Rf. Thompson, _Semitic Magic_; Christian, _The History > and Practice of Magic_.]" It could certainly be an > interesting take to pull in a game, where "hidden celestials" > weren't necessarily Grigori-kin. Even if you don't subscribe > to that particular named personage being a descendant, there's > still the "Accordig to Rabbi Eliezer (_The Book of Adam and Eve_), > Lilith bore Adam every day 100 children." (*Not* a human wench, > her!) Between Grigori and that, it's no wonder that Force/6 > humans show up occasionally, eh? Well the Revised Standard Version of the Bible says that Cain was born of Eve and implies Adam's paternity (I looked it up after raising the point last week); I don't know Hebrew, Greek, or Latin, nor do I have easy access to a plethora of different translations. However I still think that the story of Cain and Abel works best if there's no demonic taint in Cain's background. However, I do agree that Lilith's children might make an interesting addition to an IN game. > > (And then there's a scrap of poetry I remember about this, from > some other source long ago, that Lilith produced "Shapes that > coiled in the woods and waters/Glittering sons and radient daughters." > Which has been puttering about in my head as indicating that Lilim > who use the Numinous Corpus of Wings should get *dragon* wings instead > of feathered or bat-wings. (I.e., scales -- bright for Bright and > dark for Dark?) I like this bit! I may very well use this when I start my IN campaign. > > As to the rest of this thread... Dear Ethereal Gods! What have I > *wrought* with one little "this might be cool in a game" comment > off the cuff????? And here I was feeling that I ought to apologize for starting the whole thing! 8-) > > And, drat it all, not one computer-religion flame, to give me > Essence... Oh yeah? Well, Windows 97 for Macintosh sucks! [Does that help? 8-)] Russ Collins rgc@io.com "Make a cross on your abdomin, When in Rome, do like a Roman..." -- Tom Lehrer "The Vatican Rag" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:54:02 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN>Re: Cain's mom > IOW, Cain, Abel and Seth were by no means the only children of A&E. This > has been a disputed question for some time (since the Stokes trial early > this century, in fact, and possibly before then) but suffice it to say > that Cain and Seth settled down with two of their sisters and lived a > long, fruitful life. > No wonder humanity's all screwed up! Inbreeding, right from the start (now, if I can just find that Banjo) Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:00:46 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Essence. A question on: > Sorry, I should have been more clear. Any conscious/focused > use of essence makes noise. Which all uses of Songs definitely > are! Does unfocused (ie, the usual mortal expenditure) use of Essence create any 'tingle'? For example, can a Celestial in the presence of a mortal who wants to do something really badly feel a little spark of Essence as the human subconsciously spends it in one big hit? I can see a few uses for this in the game (it adds atmosphere, at the least), plus I'm asking for interest's sake. Thanks, Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:25:22 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> New Angel/ Roles. To show people that I am NOT obsessed with killing Roles, I am posting my PC/ NPC (depending on whether I'm GMing or not). If anything, he is definitely not the 'kill or be killed' type. Leath. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- SAMUAL "Smilin' Sam Smith". SERAPHIM OF MARC. Samual is very different from just about any other Seraph you are likely to meet. Outgoing, friendly, concerned with people. Most other Seraphim accuse him of spending too much time on Earth and 'going native'. He has been conducting various Corporeal assignments for Marcsince the early 1800s, but he doesn't think that matters. For the last 50 or so years he has been thoroughly enjoying his Role as a (new and used) car salesman. Any customer who comes to see "Smilin' Sam" (he never lets anyone call him by his adopted Smith for long) walks away happy with the car they wanted, paying exactly the price they intended, and knowing that everything Smilin' Sam told them about the car was God's own truth (he's still a Seraphim after all). The manager of the car yard believes that Sam's technique is ludicrous, but the customers keep coming back, asking for Sam. They will even come back later if Sam is not there, having been called away on other business. Although he dislikes Sam's method, he can't fault its effectiveness, so doesn't complain (not that he could do anything about it if he did). The manager is actually Samual's unknowing servant, although Samual prefers his salesman Role, and lets his servant manage the car yard. Samual arranges to have the servant's salary paid and receives (via mail) monthly reports. Samual generally tries to maintain a low Celestial profile, but does actively report any Infernal activity he encounters. Marc's Malakim (and Angels of some other Archangels) appear to be semi-regular customers of the yard, so much so that the manager almost believes that Sam has criminal conections. It is an almost logical conclusion, with dark, apparently violent men and women appearing occassionally, having intense discussions with Sam, buying a car and following directions from the salesman. They always pay with cash, too..... Samual doesn't love money, and any known Angel who comes to him who can't afford to pay for a car can still get one, as long as they agree to do a favour for Samual in the future. So far Samual has no way of binding these Angels to make sure they will keep up their end of the bargain, and is hoping that Marc will soon see fit to teach him how to write a Divine Contract. So far all Angels he has dealt with have been honest, especially with the threat of a squad of Marc's Malkim Debt Collectors appearing on their doorstep. Having been around for a long time, Samual knows how to take care of himself, but tries to avoid violence if possible. CORPOREAL 2 (Strength 3, Agility 5) ETHEREAL 3 (Intelligence 7, Precision 5) CELESTIAL 4 (Will 8, Perception 8) Vessel Human/2 (Charisma 2) Role- Car Salesman (Status 3, Level 3) Servant- Car Yard Manager (Level 1) Dodge/ 1 Computer Operations/ 2 Fast Talk/ 2 Celestial Song of Possession/ 2 ATTUNEMENTS/ DISTINCTIONS. Seraphim of Marc. Elohim of Marc. Head of a PIN. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- So there you have it. Probably totally useless in most situations, but a chance for good roleplaying. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 97 16:58:55 PST (0058Z) From: "Brion K. Lienhart" Subject: IN> Ahoy the list Well, I finally got my copy of In Nomine, so I guess I can start posting to the list now, although I've been reading it for a couple of weeks now. It looks pretty good so far, though I haven't finished reading it yet. I have noticed one omission from the Bibliography, namely _To Reign in Hell_ by Stephen Brust. It covers the revolt in Heaven from Satan's point of view. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:41:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" Subject: Re: IN>Re: Cain's mom On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Leathal Weapon wrote: > > > IOW, Cain, Abel and Seth were by no means the only children of A&E. This > > has been a disputed question for some time (since the Stokes trial early > > this century, in fact, and possibly before then) but suffice it to say > > that Cain and Seth settled down with two of their sisters and lived a > > long, fruitful life. > > > No wonder humanity's all screwed up! Inbreeding, right from the start > (now, if I can just find that Banjo) Well, the whole problem with inbreeding is that it allows certain recessive genetic traits, traits which would otherwise be overlooked in the human genome, to become widespread within a limited area, such as a backwoods region. Such traits are usually the result of mutations, chromosomes which have been damaged by radiation or other natural mutagenic agents, or just by plain old entropy. Adam and Eve were the first humans, and, as such, their genomes were perfect, mutations hadn't yet had time to form. It was only after countless centuries that the human genome had time to break down and acquire the malformations which are known to occur in inbred communities. - -Q (the following is, of course, imho) - --------------------------------------- "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein Scott "Q" Meyer Scott.E.Meyer@wheaton.edu http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 15:00:56 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN>Re: Cain's mom I wrote: > > No wonder humanity's all screwed up! Inbreeding, right from the start > > (now, if I can just find that Banjo) > The reply began: > Well, the whole problem with inbreeding is that it allows certain > recessive genetic traits, traits which would otherwise be overlooked in > the human genome, > -Q *sarcastically* Jeeze, people. Can we take a joke? As a qualified Genetic Engineer (and amateur s**t stirrer, devil's advocate, among others) I was merely trying to inject a little humour into the list, to try and take the depressive feel from the recent spate of postings (you know the one's, all about who fathered Cain). For the record, I DO know what inbreeding is and how it occurs. So while I appreciate the attempt to educate me, I think we should all just step back, remember that it's only a game, and try not to take everything everyone says to heart. (I'm sure I'm going to be flamed for this post. I'd better put on the asbstos underpants). Thanks. THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU IN THE INTEREST OF PRESERVING MY SANITY. Leath. P.S. I've got another Angel to post, but since I've been flooding the list with them, I thought I'd give you all a break. Unless people actually like what I'm sending.... "Oh, Lisa, you and your stories. Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now let's go back to that.. building... thingy... where our beds and TV.... is." -Homer Simpson. Leathal Weapon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:58:13 -0800 From: Ross Winn Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #97 I have a small question. Does anyone have any ideas for a long term mixed celestial campaign (angels, demons and soldiers) I cannot seem to come up with one. Peace, Spyke! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 23:19:22 -0800 From: Roger Carbol Subject: IN> IN: Long-term Mixed Campaigns Ross Winn wrote: > I have a small question. Does anyone have any ideas for a long term > mixed celestial campaign (angels, demons and soldiers) I cannot seem to > come up with one. You might look into Celestial Conspiracy. IE: God and Satan are Lies. Angels and Demons are mere puppets. This way, the players can be an assortment of angels, demons, etc etc and can band together against this Mother of All Religions. Speaking of this sort of thing, is anyone looking into doing an In Nomine / Kult crossover? I think it'd be supercool; unfortunately I don't really have access to the underlying Kult materials. Sigh. Roger Carbol .. rog@col.ca .. God told you do to WHAT? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:13:16 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Essence. On Apr 1, 9:00am, Leathal Weapon wrote: > Subject: IN> Essence. > A question on: > > > Sorry, I should have been more clear. Any conscious/focused > > use of essence makes noise. Which all uses of Songs definitely > > are! > > Does unfocused (ie, the usual mortal expenditure) use of Essence > create any 'tingle'? For example, can a Celestial in the presence of > a mortal who wants to do something really badly feel a little spark > of Essence as the human subconsciously spends it in one big hit? I > can see a few uses for this in the game (it adds atmosphere, at the > least), plus I'm asking for interest's sake. Nope. Of course, if a GM wishes to add such a feature, that is quite acceptable. If you are anywhere where there a lot of people, almost all such 'tingles' would be washed out and indetectable. Now that you bring it up, though, I am designing a group of monks that meditate, farm, and improve their martial arts in their mountainous home. One of their special abilities is to sense the 'chi' (i.e. Essence) in a person and teach them how to use it. There will be a variety of martial maneuvers that use essence and many of the practitioners will be Soldier level or higher. These monks are generally on the side of Good, but prefer to remain cloistered from the war (it messes up the sense of serenity they need, you see...). Occasionally, they will send a representative to the world to combat evil as they perceive it. Anyone interested in reading the writeup when I'm finished? - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 07:44:58 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Essence. > Now that you bring it up, though, I am designing a > group of monks that meditate, farm, and improve their martial > arts in their mountainous home. One of their special abilities > is to sense the 'chi' (i.e. Essence) in a person and teach > them how to use it. There will be a variety of martial > maneuvers that use essence and many of the practitioners will > be Soldier level or higher. These monks are generally on the > side of Good, but prefer to remain cloistered from the war > (it messes up the sense of serenity they need, you see...). > Occasionally, they will send a representative to the world > to combat evil as they perceive it. > Anyone interested in reading the writeup when I'm > finished? > Aww... NUTS! You mean I won't have to spend my own time writing up something that I desparately want for my campaign? I'll get to just read the list, and let somebody else do the work for me? OF COURSE I'm interested in reading the write-up when you're finished! ;-) Please post it when you're through! I'll steal it and throw it in my binder (BTW, my "binder" has over 100 pages of stuff, in 10-point font. This is getting ridiculous! I love it!!) Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:15:17 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: IN> Heirarchies... group project? Here's a proposed group project. Well, I've been mulling about a number of different projects to tinker with, and the one thing that got to me was a lack of standardization with regards to the heirarchy at the upper levels. I mean, sure there are archangels, but who is underneath these guys? It is no fun knowing which general you serve... you'd better know your major, your lieutenant, and your seargeant, no? While I recognize that this is little more than window dressing for some games, for other styles of play, perhaps which emphasize the celestial politics side of things, this information is vital. Knowing your archangel is one thing... knowing exactly where you sit in the heirarchy of that archangel is probably more important. So, I decided to tinker with a couple of word-bound angels, and see if I couldn't get a skeleton of a heirarchy going. I know that these wouldn't represent ALL the angels, but it might represent a good backbone to work off. It would't be difficult, then, upon the creation of a new character, to simply insert them in the chain of command. They could be placed at the very bottom level of the ladder, but then could be transferred up when they gain distinction. They could even be transferred laterally if they aren't working out, so to speak. I figure I'll do the list in the following manner. Note: for explanation, I'll make an analogy to "Military" rank, although civilian angencies usually have at least three levels of rank for their own internal purposes, as well. Each list starts with an archangel, analogous to the rank of "General" for that Word. Under each archangel, there should be at least THREE level-three distinction Angels, analogous to the "top-brass" for that Word. Under each level-three distinction Angel, there should be at least three level-two distinction Angels, analogous to the commanding-officers. I will leave it up to the various GM's to come up with their own level-one distinction angels, analogous to the platoon seargeants. The PC's should then start at the bottom of this ladder. This doesn't mean, of course, that you can't jump the ladder and get help immediately from someone MUCH higher up than you. Of course, it is interesting when you DO jump the ladder and find that you get somebody's nose out of joint! Even better, different individuals up the chain should have different personalities, which you have to deal with NO MATTER WHAT! This means, sometimes, that you'll find eager and ambitious commanders, or commanders that steal credit, or what have you! Much nicer than the simple..."Oh, I'll talk directly to my archangel" approach. And finally, this heirarchy should be a collaborative effort, ever-changing through the insightful input of people on this list. Edits, changes, etc. are more than welcome... they're necessary to guarantee a finished heirarchy that people are "comfortable" with. Note: I am NOT comfortable with heirarchies, and I tend not to "work and play well with others" (which is one reason I did not pursue an Intelligence career more strenuously...), but I DO recognize that such things are, if not necessary, then at least ubiquitous! Thus, try not to see this as an attempt to "bring regimented, oppressive order to the chaos that currently exists", but rather to "add another level of role-playing background for GM's and Players alike". This is something to toy with, and enjoy, and ultimately, it should provide players with a feeling of being "in the know" when it comes to their own Word, instead of being "left in the cold" and not really knowing what their role as an angel is supposed to be!! Example: (I'll use an archangel I wrote up, so I don't steal somebody' else' ideas right off the bat... but I won't complete the example. Each angel should include a complete description or their interests and personality. Later on, we'll re-vamp each one and , at the very least, include statistics, rites, attunements, etc. NB: This is just an example, off the top of my head! Foucault, Archangel of Numbers 1. Abidah, Angel of Constants, Elohite Master of Destiny 2. Gilboah, Angel of Pure Mathematics, Cherub Master of Destiny 3. Hashub, Angel of Physics, Ofanite Master of Destiny 1.a. Hegei, Angel of Precision , Seraph Friend of the Atom - Responsible for precisely calculating the constants, thus finding the Truth in that which is Precise. (friend to 2.a. Sephar)(hostile to 2.b. Peleg) 1.b. Jarib, Angel of Preservation, Malakite Friend of the Atom - Responsible for Preserving and Maintaining the Constants, and making sure that they are always Absolute! 1.c. Mene, Angel of Manipulation, Kyriotate Friend of the Atom - Responsible for those situations where a constant must be changed, and then making sure that it is brought back to its proper position again. Note: linked to Songs, since they all change Universal Constants temporarily, and then those constants need to be "cleaned up" again. 2.a. Sephar, Angel of Calculation, Elohite Friend of the Atom - Responsible for Precise calculation of relationships between numbers, people, any variables. (friend to 1.a. Hegei) 2.b. Peleg, Angel of Estimation, Ofanite Friend of the Atom - Estimation brings about general knowledge, without the need for undue precision. Focus on trends, general tendencies, etc. (hostile with 1.a. Hegei, 2.a. Sephar) 2.c. En-Rimmon, Angel of Integration, Kyriotate Friend of the Atom - shows that all things are simply part of sub-sets of other things. The individual isn't important, only the category and class. (very long-minded, allied to ALL) 3.a. Palal, Angel of the Clockwork Universe, Seraph Friend of the Atom - Responsible for showing that the Universe runs according to a never-changing plan... God's Will. 3.b. Dathan, Angel of Relativity, Mercurial Friend of the Atom - Responsible for showing that all things are Relative, and depend upon one's perspective and context. 3.c. Upharsin, Angel of the Quantum Leap, Ofanite Friend of the Atom - Responsible for showing that the shortest distance between two points may be to just get there right now!! Once the heirarchy was completed, we could "finish off" each angel, and write up rites, attunements, etc. PROBLEM: What are the Canon rulings on the extent of attunments for angels? I mean, does the Master level of distinction include the ability to give attunements to each choir separately, or just an individual servitor attunement, or what? I'm not sure. If anybody knows, please tell me. So, is this the sort of project people are interested in, or is it too "ordered" for most people's likes? If anybody is interested in doing this with me, then let's talk. If this thread dies out, then I'll know there's no interest, and I'll turn my attentions elsewhere. No Problem with that, I just want to know where to best spend my efforts. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 11:41:44 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: IN> quick question I was going to prepare a character last night when I thought of something. Do servants of Eli on loan to other superiors get the choir distinction of both superior, or just one of them? I guess this would also applied to lillam. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: 01 Apr 97 12:13:04 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> IN ANIME is a go! Announcing: IN ANIME Steve Jackson Games, maker of successful role-playing games such as GURPS, TOON, and IN NOMINE will continue its tradition of crossover game worlds begun when they web-published GURPS: IN NOMINE by publishing IN ANIME, a crossover of IN NOMINE and TOON. IN ANIME will feature angel and demon cartoon characters in a wacky and zany world of young adult celestial teachers battling for the moral life of their Mundane high school students. The Vice-Principal has led a rebellion against the Principal and taken one-third of the Staff with him. Now the players must choose sides and win the hearts and minds of the youngsters in their class. Watch out, the demonic professor of chemistry has a pipe bomb! IN ANIME will be released exactly one year from today. Peace, Moriah IN ANIME Ly'n Editor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:50:32 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #97 On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, Ross Winn wrote: > > I have a small question. Does anyone have any ideas for a long term > mixed celestial campaign (angels, demons and soldiers) I cannot seem to > come up with one. > IMHO, this sort of thing could easily happen all the time in a world like In Nomine. Just off the top of my head, let us say that an extremely powerful evil wizard sold his soul to hell for his magic. Now its time for the debt to be called in, but he's decided he doesn't want to pay up and is tricky and powerful enough to make it difficult to *force* him to pay up. The team consists of demons who are sent to collect and angels who don't want this evil wizard wandering around doing wicked things. The first task is just to *find* the guy. After that, he has to be neutralized. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:52:25 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> IN ANIME is a go! On 1 Apr 1997, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > > Announcing: IN ANIME > > IN ANIME will be released exactly one year from today. > That day *also* being April 1st? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:44:12 -0800 From: Clinton Wolf Subject: Re: IN> IN ANIME is a go! Gregory Littmann wrote: > > On 1 Apr 1997, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > > > > > Announcing: IN ANIME > > > > IN ANIME will be released exactly one year from today. > > > That day *also* being April 1st? ;) Aww, and here I'd already come up with a great slogan... "'Tis better to reign in Community College, than serve in IOU..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:41:25 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> IN ANIME is a go! On 1 Apr 1997, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > Announcing: IN ANIME > > Steve Jackson Games, maker of successful role-playing games such as GURPS, > TOON, and IN NOMINE will continue its tradition of crossover game worlds > begun when they web-published GURPS: IN NOMINE by publishing IN ANIME, a > crossover of IN NOMINE and TOON. > > IN ANIME will feature angel and demon cartoon characters in a wacky and > zany world of young adult celestial teachers battling for the moral life of > their Mundane high school students. > > The Vice-Principal has led a rebellion against the Principal and taken > one-third of the Staff with him. Now the players must choose sides and win > the hearts and minds of the youngsters in their class. > > Watch out, the demonic professor of chemistry has a pipe bomb! > > IN ANIME will be released exactly one year from today. > Pitty thi is probably a joke. It sounds like a blast and a half. Anyone care to try doing this as a net book ? ;-) Shadowcat ******************************************************************************** A jester out of work is nobody's fool ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 14:24:12 -0500 (EST) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #97 On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, Ross Winn wrote: > I have a small question. Does anyone have any ideas for a long term > mixed celestial campaign (angels, demons and soldiers) I cannot seem to > come up with one. The easiest way to have a mixed campaign is to give the angels and demons some sort of common enemy. For example, the return of some powerful pagan diety, some sort of human organization hunting Celestials or a powerful renegade angel or demon. There are a couple of variations on this theme: 1) The angels and demons are working together at the insistence of their respective Superiors. Thus, both Heaven and Hell know and approve of their cooperation. 2) The angels and demons are working together on their own. Neither Heaven or Hell knows what is going on. Perhaps Heaven and Hell do not realize the extent of the common threat. In any case, the cooperating Celestials not only worry about the bad guys, but about their own superiors blasting them into ions for helping the other side. 3) Both sides have different and conflicting motivations for taking out the threat. For example, the angels want it completely destroyed, but the demons want to subvert it to the side of Hell. 4) The campaign can face a single threat of signifigant power, and must work long and hard to take it down. Alternatively the angels can face a new common threat each week (this probably works best if you go with option 1 as well). Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Web Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #98 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.