From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 7 17:45:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09935 for ; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:45:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA10153 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:17:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:17:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199705072117.QAA10153@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #156 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 7 1997 Volume 01 : Number 156 In this digest: Re: IN> Vessels, sex, and children - & a seed Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... IN> NO EMAIL SPAMS Re: IN> Special request from the AA of Children (fwd) IN> Here goes... hope this works IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 IN> What a mistake to make... IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Re: IN> PBEM IN> Seeking old character sheets IN> Kyrio failed possessions IN> Question: Song of Shields Re: IN> Kyrio failed possessions Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... IN> Re: your mail Re: IN> PBEM Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 IN>Introduction and adventure seed (Long) Re: IN> Seeking old character sheets Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... IN> Confusion in In Nomine... Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... Re: IN> Re: your mail Re: IN> Confusion in In Nomine... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:52:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Vessels, sex, and children - & a seed Okay, let me see if I can articulate my views right... Vessels are not normal human bodies; viz, no need to eat, sleep, etc. Presumably, therefore, their internal arrangement is different to that of a normal human. Ergo, they probably don't have the capability for reproduction, since that would not be deemed a necessary function of a celestial's vessel (certain demons aside, the whole Son of Satan thing is an old shtick). Tougher question: The Grigori. Well, says I: there's a theory going round that God intended the Grigori to Fall... or trip, as the case may be. If we agree with that, then the Grigori making babies makes sense; their vessels wer e designed to be reproductively active, because that was God's plan all along. On this basis, I offer the following adventure seed: A celestial is visiting the PC's home turf when he/she runs into some of the opposition and gets themselves very dead. Ok, no big deal for the celestial; back to Heaven or Hell they go, deal with the Trauma, life goes on. But... Back on Earth, the authorities have managed to get hold of a celestial vessel, and they're going to perform an autopsy unless they're stopped somehow... (There's a couple of scenes in The Prophecy which illustrate this whole concept perfectly, when the cops get hold of Uziel's dead Vessel. Lines like 'He has no eyes. He's never HAD eyes.' Heheheh) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:15:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... In a message dated 6.5.97 20:12:06, you write: << Hmm... does Michael have an official choir? One would think he was a Malakite, but, if not, he may not really give a whit about fighting fair... Rob Coon >> Michael is a Seraphim, according to his entry. He tells the truth. That doesn't mean he fights fair... I play a Malakite of War myself, and the differences you point out were brought home to me in an interesting way by my (actually relatively inexperienced) GM in a recent solo she ran for me. She'd converted the plotline of Queensryche's 'Operation Mindcrime' to an interesting IN adventure, and I was given my assignment to investigate it by Michael himself. To stay in character I complained (not loudly, this is the AA of War, after all) that investigation was no real job for a Malakite, and shouldn't he be sending someone more appropriate. His reply came back: 'I need someone who can show the Fist of God, should it become necessary. The time has come to stop thinking laterally; we need to add more strings to our bows. You are my experiment; if you can show that you can function in an unusual capacity, we can do it again. Then we might be able to start confusing Hell, and actually start making some ground up.' Laurence would never have thought that way; he would have sent a small team of angels to do the job Michael was sending one to do. How do other people feel about that interpretaion? Malakite of War Cymrys "Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Prank the Malakim, and yer on yer own.' ------------------------------ Date: 06 May 97 20:22:34 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> NO EMAIL SPAMS >From: "Kurt White" >Subject: IN> Special request from the AA of Children > >Just a quick message on behalf of the AA of Children, please take the time >to read it... > >Houghton-Mifflin publishing company is giving books to children's hospitals; >how many books they give depends on how many e-mails they receive from >people around the world. For every 25 e-mails they receive, they will give >1 book. All you have to do is e-mail: > >share@hmco.com DON'T! There's no webpage citation for anyone to check to see whether this is a valid request. I'll bet money it isn't. But that's the big clue with these insidious 'remailers' that ask you to do X and email # more people. This is a virus that will never die since there's no expiration date on it. Even if it is a valid request (hah!), it will now live forever because of poor wording. Come on, people, think critically here. And by the way. This list is *never* to be used for advertisement for anything, no matter how worthy the cause. Find some other avenue for your fundraiser or political concerns. Kurt, your on probation here. Don't do this sort of thing again. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:25:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Special request from the AA of Children (fwd) > > > > > >Yes, I of all people am sinking to commiting SPAM on GURPSnet-L by > >cross-posting this spam from In Nomine-L. But if there has *ever* been an > >excuse for SPAM, it has to be this. > > Actually, this is the best argument for the banning of spam. > > It's over, the message was wrong when it wasn't over, and it's six months > old besides. > You are right - I just found out from other sources. I officially apologize to everyone on GURPSnet-l. I fell for the oldest one in the book. :( ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 10:41:05 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: IN> Here goes... hope this works Hi all, Something I came up with after a friend (player in my IN gp) showed me the "Angels on a Pin" post a couple of days ago. Maxwell's Demons for In Nomine: Maxwell's Demon is a proposition by Maxwell for a demon that separates hot and cold molecules by opening and closing a valve, allowing only the hot molecules through. I think it was the basis for a perpetual motion machine or something. But what if the Bands from In Nomine were to try and fill the role of Maxwell's Demon? o Maxwell's Balseraph would claim that it had already separated the hot molecules from the cold and that you just hadn't noticed the effect yet. o Maxwell's Djinn would pretend it didn't give a damn about separating your bloody molecules for you and then do it when nobody's looking. o A Maxwell's Calabite would just blow up all _your_ molecules. Who cares whether they're hot or cold? o Maxwell's Habbalite would find out why you wanted the molecules separated so badly, then do it for you, but you'd feel totally miserable about it anyway. o A Maxwell's Lilim would trade in a favour from some other Maxwell's Demon to get the job done, and then you'd _really_ owe her. o Maxwell's Shedite wouldn't bother with molecules just yet. First what we really need to do is to 'borrow' some money (one molecule); then we have to use that money to buy a gun (two molecules)... o A Maxwell's Impudite would be just so fascinated to hear about this whole separating molecules thing, and why it is that you want it done, and my, what a brilliant idea that is, do so tell me more about it Hope it a(b)muses ;p ODie... - -- === Damian O'Dea Damian.ODea@dsto.defence.gov.au === === Information Management & Fusion Group ph:(08) 259 5839 === === Information Technology Division fx:(08) 259 5619 === === DSTO - Salisbury, P. O. Box 1500, Salisbury, Adelaide, SA 5108 === ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:01:23 -0500 (CDT) From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 > >> > BTW - I love the twelve page replies with an entire message quoted, >then some >> > sod writes "I agree" at the bottom :) Nybbas strikes!!!! >> >> Yeah, that one made me wince, too. Eeeeuuuch! :( > >Does anyone else see the irony here? > > Rob Coon Yes, I do. I know I promised I would drop this, but I've seen four or five flames about DN pop up since I stopped using it, so here goes one more time! DOMINICNET IS DEAD!!!!! OK?????? I said this almost a week ago, and have posted *nothing* from them sense! You stage these massive complaints about wasted bandwidth, and then use that very same bandwidth to complain about something that *no longer exists*! I got the picture- Dominicnet was evil and deplorable and all around bad, I'm probably going to hell for even using it! Message bloody received! Drop it, huh? > >You ever looked at the Tv screens in the picture of Nybbas, Prince of >the media? It has a few Demon Princes and one extra person. :) > > >Deus Ex Machina, >Jaeden Yep, Eli. Noticed this a while back.... wonder why? >Who decides the fate of a human soul after death, and what >criteria are there? Does the soul itself unconsiously >choose, or does Saint Peter (Archangel Peter, maybe?) sit >at the gates choosing? How was the critera set, and do >they vary any? > >If there's a cannon answer I've missed, I'd like to know >it, but all answers are good. It says in the Book that a human soul is accepted into Heaven if it contains benevolent Essence. I take this too mean that anyone who's Karmic balance is strongly enough into the black gets in- just how strong is open to debate. Those too deep in the red go to Hell; the neutral ground is reincarnated/sent to the marches/disbanded, according to personal belief. Just my take on it- I don't *think* there's any canon yet. > >Hmm... does Michael have an official choir? One would think he was a >Malakite, but, if not, he may not really give a whit about fighting fair... > Rob Coon Michael's a Seraph. >I saw a great deal of interest in a play by e-mail version of IN. I was >curious, does anyone have experience with PBEM's. I wouldn't mind >running it, but alas have little (as in none) experience with PBEM. > >Hatcher Rhanyr >"The Angel of Bright Shiney Teeth" Sorry, I've got no PBEM experience. I would be extremely interested in joining though. - -Rogue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:32:06 -0600 From: dpearcy@io.com (Derek Patton Pearcy) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Somebody on the list wrote: Michael voluntarily stepped down as the leader of the Host, elevating his most favored lieutenant - Laurence - to replace him. - ---------- This is partially right; you're missing a step. Michael stepped aside to let Uriel, Archangel of Purity, take his place. When Uriel ascended to higher realms of Heaven, Laurence took his place. This irked Khalid, another of Uriel's Servitors, who felt he truly deserved the generalship of Heaven's armies. He decided to back the Moslems (founded by Gabriel, long-time political enemy of both Dominic and Uriel), becoming the Archangel of Faith and eventually the protector of Islam. Needless to say, this irked Laurence, protector of Christianity, especially during all that uncomfortable Crusade business. Michael was a Seraphim, while Laurence is a Malakite -- this is why Michael could be questioned, while Laurence's purity has never been doubted. Malakim, who cannot Fall, are beyond scrutiny (except by Dominic's angels, who're always on the lookout for extremely dissonant Malakim). Just catching up as I fly through, Derek ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 97 03:22:42 UT From: "Kurt White" Subject: IN> What a mistake to make... This is a public apology from a sucker who fell for (apprently, it seems) one of the oldest tricks in the book. You guys are so HARSH... PS - I was wondering if the In Nomine combat system is in any way compatible with GURPS ( I've never played Gurps before), or is there anyone who has begun compiling a list of extra weapons, rules etc. for IN combat. - -Kurt I feel *really* silly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 23:35:21 -0500 From: Mage Bob Subject: IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) wrote... >Who decides the fate of a human soul after death, and what >criteria are there? Does the soul itself unconsiously >choose, or does Saint Peter (Archangel Peter, maybe?) sit >at the gates choosing? How was the critera set, and do >they vary any? Original sin drags every soul towards hell, weighting it down like cement shoes (lets not get too deep into my "the afterlife is like the mob" theory shall we?), the only thing that saves a soul is Dominic's two boys standing outside the gates pickin' out the good ones... this is also why purgatory no longer exists, that ENTIRE celestial realm is now what is commonly referred to by the dead as "the press" think of it like an eternal mosh pit with new persons dropping onto the top & constantly being "surfed" towards the gates of hell so that others can delay their fate. (yep its the only mosh pit in creation where the moshers are trying to get away from the bands... :) te he) some souls cut their feet off before fully crossing into the celestial so that their heavy cement shoes wont hurt anyone when they fall into the crowd, these souls are commonly called saints... ~Mage Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:56:47 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 In reply to: > It says in the Book that a human soul is accepted into Heaven if it contains > benevolent Essence. I take this too mean that anyone who's Karmic balance > is strongly enough into the black gets in- just how strong is open to > debate. Those too deep in the red go to Hell; the neutral ground is > reincarnated/sent to the marches/disbanded, according to personal belief. > > Just my take on it- I don't *think* there's any canon yet. The only thing I can find that's close to canon is under the Destiny vs Fate section. It says if the person has reached their Desitny without succumbing to Fate then they will reach Heaven. Vice versa for Hell (Fate over Destiny), and those who are caught in between (ignored both or pursued each equally) will be reincarnated to 'try again' or their souls disbanded back into the Symphony. Also, unlike Hell, Heaven (referring only to the lower level that the game is set in) doesn't 'get' the souls that die, they go higher up for a greater reward (something you could use for a disgruntled angels story). The only human souls that seem to stay on the lowest level of heaven are those very strong ones who get a choice (there is a term for them in the book but I can'rt remember it right now). So in essence, the Karma idea is about right. Leath. P.S. Is this the longest ever post sent to basically say I agree? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:24:07 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 >>You ever looked at the Tv screens in the picture of Nybbas, Prince of >>the media? It has a few Demon Princes and one extra person. :) > >Yep, Eli. Noticed this a while back.... wonder why? Either it's misinformation to incite Dominic and his followers (which I would not put past any of Satan's Princes, much less Nybbas) or Eli is in a bad way... >>Who decides the fate of a human soul after death, and what >>criteria are there? Does the soul itself unconsiously >>choose, or does Saint Peter (Archangel Peter, maybe?) sit >>at the gates choosing? How was the critera set, and do >>they vary any? >> >>If there's a cannon answer I've missed, I'd like to know >>it, but all answers are good. > >It says in the Book that a human soul is accepted into Heaven if it >contains benevolent Essence. I take this too mean that anyone who's >Karmic balance is strongly enough into the black gets in- just how >strong is open to debate. Those too deep in the red go to Hell; the >neutral ground is reincarnated/sent to the marches/disbanded, >according to personal belief. Then the question is the same, just taken back one step - what is the criteria for getting benevolent Essence? What is the criteria for diabolic Essence (which I assume sends you to hell)? Also, where in the Book did you find that reference to benevolent essence? I remember something of the sort, but I am having real trouble finding it (my brain is fried from the AP Calculus exam). >Just my take on it- I don't *think* there's any canon yet. Does anybody official know when and where the canon ruling on this will emerge? It probably won't affect my decision to buy either way - I plan to be an IN junkie for a little while, at least - but I'd like to know what to look forward to. >>I saw a great deal of interest in a play by e-mail version of IN. I >>was curious, does anyone have experience with PBEM's. I wouldn't >>mind running it, but alas have little (as in none) experience with >>PBEM. > >Sorry, I've got no PBEM experience. I would be extremely interested >in joining though. Well, I lack the PBEM experience, and right now don't want to get into another game (I'm already in a GURPS game on IRC). But come this summer I may want to run one. If nobody else objects, post any notes about your (Rob's) game to the list - I'd love to hear how you did things, and I may be able to provide nasty ideas, too. ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:50:21 +0000 From: "Captain Nemo" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Rogue scripted: > DOMINICNET IS DEAD!!!!! OK?????? I said this almost a week ago, and have > posted *nothing* from them sense! You stage these massive complaints about > wasted bandwidth, and then use that very same bandwidth to complain about > something that *no longer exists*! > > I got the picture- Dominicnet was evil and deplorable and all around bad, > I'm probably going to hell for even using it! Message bloody received! Drop > it, huh? Minor point here: I'll probably dance among brimstone for admitting it, but I found the *original* DOMINIC.NET postings to be somewhat amusing. The copies got somewhat annoying, then the bitching about the whole thing was the most annoying of all. Now you have the next level: the bitching about the bitching. (Rogues and now mine.) People, before flaming something unthinkingly, take some time to learn the history, or at least to figure out what precisely is being flamed. There is a certain element of politeness that should be followed, even on the Net, in order to grease the wheels of human interaction a little. Nemo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:57:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Castello Subject: Re: IN> PBEM >I saw a great deal of interest in a play by e-mail version of IN. I was >curious, does anyone have experience with PBEM's. I wouldn't mind >running it, but alas have little (as in none) experience with PBEM. I've got quite a bit of experience in pbems but right now I haven't got any IN campaign ideas. Did you have something in mind? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 16:22:07 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: IN> Seeking old character sheets Hi all, Some time before the release of IN, there were a couple of character sheets posted to the (SJG?) Web site as examples. They were full-page images. Are they still floating about anywhere, as I can't seem to find them anymore? Does anyone have a copy? ODie... - -- === Damian O'Dea Damian.ODea@dsto.defence.gov.au === === Information Management & Fusion Group ph:(08) 259 5839 === === Information Technology Division fx:(08) 259 5619 === === DSTO - Salisbury, P. O. Box 1500, Salisbury, Adelaide, SA 5108 === ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 23:26:43 +1300 From: Brian Logan Subject: IN> Kyrio failed possessions Sometimes a kyrio will fail to possess the target, what does the target sense? - in the case of kyrio failing roll? (I suspect nothing) - in the case to will resisting? (definately something, else how could followers permit the kyrio to succeed?) - when the target is actually a vessel with more forces than the kyrio? - when the kyrio could possess the body, but the kyrio has extended itself and does not have enough forces spare (eg he expects a human to have only 5 and has only 5 spare but the human has 6 forces) A game for children Is the bane of men, Where loss is greater Than the win. - War ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:28:51 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> Question: Song of Shields >1) if a celestial has sung the song of shields, than can she attack? i >said no because the text reads (i haven't got my book on me) something >like a shield through which no corporeal attack can be made. well, that's >paraphrased but it ruled that if you could attack the song was too powerful. All three Songs of Shields word both ways. A powerful defense, but also a pain in the butt sometimes. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:35:04 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Kyrio failed possessions On May 7, 11:26pm, Brian Logan wrote: > Subject: IN> Kyrio failed possessions > Sometimes a kyrio will fail to possess the target, what does the target sense? > - in the case of kyrio failing roll? > (I suspect nothing) Correct. > - in the case to will resisting? > (definately something, else how could followers permit the kyrio to succeed?) > - when the target is actually a vessel with more forces than the kyrio? > > - when the kyrio could possess the body, but the kyrio has extended itself > and does not have enough forces spare (eg he expects a human to have only 5 > and has only 5 spare but the human has 6 forces) In all three of these cases, the target will know _something_ just happened. With a successful Perception roll AND the proper knowledge and background, they would get more details. So your average shoe salesman might have felt a 'chill, alien presence', but a practicing medium would recognize it for what it was. Let the person's experience and the check digit decide how much information is given. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 09:25:51 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... If I were GMing a game of "In Nomine," I think I would introduce an archangel of death, or some such, whose servants are attuned to the souls that die having achieved their Destiny. Perhaps this angel of death should be just a superiod, not an archangel, and subordinate to Yves. The servitors' basic job is to protect the achieved souls from maurauding demons. Anyway, his servitors show up at the elbow of every human soul that achieves its Destiny. If the soul has NOT succumbded to its Fate, the servitors escort it to the first level of Heaven (where all the PCs hang out), and then wave a cheerful goodbye as it ascends to the high levels, out of their ken (except for the rare saints and boddhisatvahs, who opt to stay and join the angels). If the soul has both acheived Destiny and succumbed to Fate, the servitors are much likelier to encounter demonic resistance, from their opposite numbers, death-demons attuned to souls that succumb to their Fates, who work somewhere in the hierarchy of Chronos. With these ambiguous souls, the servants of Yves escort them to Heaven or (if demonic attack makes that impractical) to the nearest Tether or representative of Dominic's. The soul is then put on trial before a bench of karmic judges, who decide where it should be reincarnated. Souls that slip through the fingers of Yves servitors are among those that Dominic's two champions rescue from the gates of Hell. The fact that Chronos' demons never manage to harvest any of these Destiny-&-Fate souls might not stop them from trying. A demon's life is bound to be full of frustrations. Also, they might have uses for these souls on Earth or in the Marches, thus delaying their appearance before the karmic judges. Uses could include things like ghosts or unwilling slaves, or bait for angels. Just kicking around ideas. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:49:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: IN> Re: your mail On Tue, 6 May 1997 gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > this is to whom ever posted the celestial (i think it was paul) the > other day i had hoped to find them on a web page so i did not save > them. could you please repost them or leave a webpage on which to > find them? If you are talking about the Joe Angels and Joe Demons, I'll be putting them up on my web pages soon. Probably by this weekend, if not sooner. The http address is in my sigfile, below. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 97 11:38 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> PBEM >I saw a great deal of interest in a play by e-mail version of IN. I was >curious, does anyone have experience with PBEM's. I wouldn't mind >running it, but alas have little (as in none) experience with PBEM. Top three issues in PBEMs: - they're *slllooooww*. Don't expect even a simple plotline to finish in a finite time (I'm talking many months, here...). - you *have* to make allowances for player turnover, due to the slow speed. (GM turnover is also a problem, I might add....) - you need a critical mass of players who will respond fairly promptly, or the game will die. Minimum number of "active" players is about 3-4. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 97 13:07 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 >>>You ever looked at the Tv screens in the picture of Nybbas, Prince of >>>the media? It has a few Demon Princes and one extra person. :) >> >>Yep, Eli. Noticed this a while back.... wonder why? > >Either it's misinformation to incite Dominic and his followers (which I >would not put past any of Satan's Princes, much less Nybbas) or Eli is >in a bad way... Check out some of the other screens -- some of them are enemies of Nybbas. So Eli's being there may not say very much. Then again, you never really know what's going on with Eli.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:15:56 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN>Introduction and adventure seed (Long) "Christopher Jackson" wrote >Yves dispatches his Servitor Benjamin, Elohite Angel of Literary Criticism, to >investigate. Wouldn't the Angel of literary critisim be more likely to be an angel of judgement ie Dominic. This would of course make the party less willing to terminate his exsistance without serious proof. Also wouldn't making him a seraph make his declaration more believable. Adam dahak@compuserve.com "What is Truth asked jesting Pilate but wouldn't wait for an answer." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 13:26:21 -0500 From: Scott Turnbull Subject: Re: IN> Seeking old character sheets Damian O'Dea wrote: > Hi all, > > Some time before the release of IN, there were a couple of character > > sheets posted to the (SJG?) Web site as examples. They were > full-page > images. Are they still floating about anywhere, as I can't seem to > find them anymore? Does anyone have a copy? The gif images of the the character sheets are still linked off of the Steve Jackson In Nomine site I don't remember the url offhand. I also have a character sheet I've created in Word 7 format, it's in a zip file at my tiny IN page at http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~scotwt/ Cheers, Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:38:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... On Tue, 6 May 1997, Robert Coon wrote: > Hmm... does Michael have an official choir? One would think he was a > Malakite, but, if not, he may not really give a whit about fighting fair... Michael is a Seraph. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:32:24 +0100 From: pchan@videotron.co.uk Subject: IN> Confusion in In Nomine... Hello, I'm trying to create a scenario for some friends (we also play one version of Noun: the Gerund); it will be our first In Nomine session soon, and I'm starting to get confused about certain things in the game. Some of these are simply apparently contradictory statements in the book, others are simply left unstated. I have got the errata sheet from Steve Jackson Games' Web home page (dated Feb 21, 1997). 1. Unarmed combat. On p.64, it says that the attack roll target is Strength plus Corporeal Forces. On p.75, under the Fighting skill, it implies that it should be Strength or Will plus Fighting skill. Am I simply getting the wrong end of the stick on this one? After all, if you have no Fighting skill, your attack roll could be Strength plus the default penalty for Fighting, rather than Strength plus Corporeal Forces. 2. Cost of a role. On p.43, it says that the cost is half (the Resource level times the Status level of the Role). On p.72, it says that the cost is twice the Resource level of the role, plus two points for every Status level above one. 3. Which way do we round when we calculate costs? Should we be pernickity and allow fractional costs (hence possibly allowing players to fudge their character creation to squeeze every last advantage out of the character creation rules)? 4. Is combat really as weak as it seems? An average Celestial would need to beat up on an average human for a good few rounds before killing him, even with weapons. Shouldn't Celestials be somewhat deadlier (and hence require more restraint on the player's behalf)? Am I simply too used to games where combat is fairly lethal (e.g. Cyberpunk)? 5. Is there an FAQ anywhere? If so, is it available by email request? (I can read Web pages locally, I just don't have regular access to the Web.) 6. Is in_nomine_digest-l simply an unedited digest of the stuff in this list? Apologies for any questions which have already been answered on the list, but I've only discovered its existence fairly recently. Finally, I've really enjoyed the stuff on the list, especially ArchAngel Beth's Know Your articles. Some of these are quite amusing. Also acknowledgements to Iota for "Noun: the Gerund"...that list was very amusing. Thx Pak. Impudite of Cluelessness, Servitor of Confusion. Role: one of the three "Confused Twins"... #include int main() { DISCLAIM( "I haven't a clue what my opinions are, never mind my employers" ); } ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:23:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... On Tue, 6 May 1997, Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: > Okay - I have a small question which I know will probably > spark a big thread: > > Who decides the fate of a human soul after death, and what > criteria are there? Does the soul itself unconsiously > choose, or does Saint Peter (Archangel Peter, maybe?) sit > at the gates choosing? How was the critera set, and do > they vary any? > > If there's a cannon answer I've missed, I'd like to know > it, but all answers are good. The best answer I have is: God only knows. Possibly Satan has a clue as well, but in general angels and demons don't know the exact criterea that cause a human soul to go to Heaven or Hell. Souls have several possible destinations. * Evil souls are plummetted into Hell. * Good souls ascend, presumably to the upper reaches of Heaven. Such human souls rarely return, and terrestrial angels rarely travel to the upper levels of Heaven, so this can be difficult to verify. However, most angels and demons readily agree that it is true. * Souls that are neither too evil or good enough are reincarnated for a "second try". * Some traumatized souls remain in the Ethereal realms as ghosts for a time before passing on. * Some souls simply dissipate back into the Symphony. This can happen from extreme trauma, or may happen when a soul reincarnates too many times. * It is also possible that a few souls end up in the Far Marches, dwelling in the realms of the Pagan gods. Angels aren't generally welcome there, so again this is difficult to check. How "evil" or "good" you have to be is an open question. The only hard and fast clues comes from Fate and Destiny; humans that fully succumb to their Fate tend to go to Hell, while humans that achieve their Destiny tend to go to Heaven. Things that seem to send you to Heaven are a general orientation toward the Divine and Holy, as well as charitable works in one's life. Things that send you to Hell are the utter rejection of the Divine - especially by allegiance to Hell, and living a selfish life - advancing yourself at the expense of others. Certain "sins" can send you to Hell as well, but these are not necessarily applied evenly. It may be that it is a person's *belief* in the sin that damns them rather than the sin itself. There is no general barometer that allows one to tell how close a soul is to either salvation or damnation. The ultimate fate of a soul is a mystery that is only revealed at the moment of death. The criterea can be very personal as well; what damns one man may save another. Angels and demons have to take it on faith that everything will work out in the end. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:29:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 I wrote: >> Michael voluntarily stepped down as the leader of the Host, elevating >> his most favored lieutenant - Laurence - to replace him. On Tue, 6 May 1997, Derek Patton Pearcy wrote: > This is partially right; you're missing a step. Michael stepped aside to > let Uriel, Archangel of Purity, take his place. When Uriel ascended to > higher realms of Heaven, Laurence took his place. Oops! Looks like I need to read more carefully. I apologize for my earlier mistatements. Paul Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 11:57:25 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... your ideas, Earl, sound good to me. they also provide a story hook for a mixed A/D group to hang together without Dom. going hyperballistic--they are watching over a split-decision soul and waiting for death and the to-do that comes then. they could also be a Dom. triad, a Yvesian, and a Chronosite, as well as the relevant human soul. the PC's actions will determine whether Heaven or Hell gets the NPC human soul. your idea also meshes with the {as far as i know} canon of the game and, more importantly, the flavor of the game setting. I say go with it. tom t. "...say hello to the frog,..." Heather Alexander _Life's Flame_ "The Garden" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 16:19:11 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: Re: IN> Re: your mail thank you On Wed, 7 May 1997, Paul F. Strack wrote: > On Tue, 6 May 1997 gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > > this is to whom ever posted the celestial (i think it was paul) the > > other day i had hoped to find them on a web page so i did not save > > them. could you please repost them or leave a webpage on which to > > find them? > > If you are talking about the Joe Angels and Joe Demons, I'll be putting > them up on my web pages soon. Probably by this weekend, if not sooner. > The http address is in my sigfile, below. > > Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. > pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html > In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:07:46 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Confusion in In Nomine... > I'm trying to create a scenario for some friends (we also play one version > of Noun: the Gerund); it will be our first In Nomine session soon, and I'm > starting to get confused about certain things in the game. Some of these are > simply apparently contradictory statements in the book, others are simply > left unstated. I have got the errata sheet from Steve Jackson Games' Web > home page (dated Feb 21, 1997). There's been a few changes and many additions since then. It's worth picking up a new one. > > 1. Unarmed combat. On p.64, it says that the attack roll target is Strength > plus Corporeal Forces. On p.75, under the Fighting skill, it implies that it > should be Strength or Will plus Fighting skill. Am I simply getting the > wrong end of the stick on this one? After all, if you have no Fighting > skill, your attack roll could be Strength plus the default penalty for > Fighting, rather than Strength plus Corporeal Forces. Clever fellow. This has come up before and will probably be changed/errata-ized in the near future. For now, use Strength+CorpForces for grungy wrestling and tusseling and Strength+Fighting Skill for the more refined combat arts like boxing. > 2. Cost of a role. On p.43, it says that the cost is half (the Resource > level times the Status level of the Role). On p.72, it says that the cost is > twice the Resource level of the role, plus two points for every Status level > above one. In the FAQ > > 3. Which way do we round when we calculate costs? Should we be pernickity > and allow fractional costs (hence possibly allowing players to fudge their > character creation to squeeze every last advantage out of the character > creation rules)? In the FAQ > > 4. Is combat really as weak as it seems? An average Celestial would need to > beat up on an average human for a good few rounds before killing him, even > with weapons. Shouldn't Celestials be somewhat deadlier (and hence require > more restraint on the player's behalf)? Am I simply too used to games where > combat is fairly lethal (e.g. Cyberpunk)? There is a house rule (which may become official) to make 'lethal damage' (i.e. guns and knives) do double or triple damage to normal humans. There is also a rule coming up to change the way Body Hits are calculate for humans to make them less resilient. While not official, it'll be something like [Strength*Vessel Level] for humans. > 5. Is there an FAQ anywhere? If so, is it available by email request? (I can > read Web pages locally, I just don't have regular access to the Web.) I'll mail you the latest. > 6. Is in_nomine_digest-l simply an unedited digest of the stuff in this > list? Pretty much. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #156 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.