From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jul 5 01:39:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04414 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:39:04 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA19088 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:49:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:49:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199707050449.XAA19088@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #237 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, July 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 237 In this digest: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #235 Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... Re: IN> Do androids dream in the Marches? Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... Re: IN> Character Creation and GM aid Re: IN> Grigori, etc. Re: IN> people who run In Nomine Re: IN> people who run In Nomine Re: IN> IN:> Disturbance Thoughts Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... Re: IN> Kyrio/Shedim/Possession vs. Cherub/Djinn/Attraction questions Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malaki Re: IN> people who run In Nomine Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party Re: IN> Sourcebooks IN> Dean of Wuse Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... IN> Disturbances Re: IN> people who run In Nomine Re: IN> people who run In Nomine Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 06:24:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #235 > > Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 23:20:57 GMT > From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) > Subject: Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... > > On Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:45:40 -0400, "Thomas Davidson" > wrote: > > >2) While I liked the description of the Grigori given on this list/digest, > >the Nephallim have left a bad taste in my mouth. If I'm reading the > >description of the Grigori right, then *all* the Grigori fell. The > >Nephallim were children of the Grigori: "Legends say that the children of > >the Grigori created were... known... as the Nephallim...." > > Since they're listed as a choir, they'd have to be Outcasts, not Fallen; > though Demons might consider them Renegades. > I hadn't thought of it this way... > > Just IMHO, I'd say Grigori-proper start with 9 Forces, just like any other > Angel. Children have 5-9 Forces, depending on how much Grigori blood they Actually, I happen to agree with 7 Forces for Children. > have. Songs would be available. "[T]hey shun demons almost instinctively," > and their duty was to watch over humans, so I'd say their Resonance is to > detect demons, or perhaps all celestials. Maybe with check digits: > Most people seem to think that since the Children aren't a proper Choir, they don't have Resonances. > Since their purpose was to help humans, harming humans would be Dissonant. > > To give them something as far as Attunements, while they wouldn't have > access to Choir or Band Attunements or Distinctions, they've Watched so > long, I'd give them access to Servitor attunements, angelic and demonic. > That maybe gives them enough power to survive being hunted by both sides. > Inherently anomalous, some Grigori would be exceptions to these rules; and > any celestial dealing with one will have to worry about Dominic and > Asmodeus. > Actually, I would probably allow this, too, for the same reasons you cite. Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us - -------------------- Don't panic! I have a new .sig! - -------------------- Instruction Booklet for this message: STEP 1: Open mouth. STEP 2: Insert foot. STEP 3: Chew vigorously. STEP 4: Repeat as needed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 06:03:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... On Tue, 01 Jul 97, Walter Milliken sent me the following Celestial Song of Tongues... > Subject: Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... > > >2) While I liked the description of the Grigori given on this list/digest, > >the Nephallim have left a bad taste in my mouth. If I'm reading the > >description of the Grigori right, then *all* the Grigori fell. > > I believe the book says they were excommunicated, rather than Fell. I > think all this is said to have happened before the Fall. Granted, the > description of what happened to them is similar to what happens to > angels who Fall. But the Grigori were exiled to Earth, not Hell, and > there's no indication that they joined with Lucifer during the > rebellion. > Ah, that's what tripped me up, so to speak. It does say "excommunicated"... I got that confused with "Fell"--big difference, and now I see it. > They may be a "third side" in the War. > You mean that there's actually somebody fighting on the *human's* side in the War? ;-) > > The > >Nephallim were children of the Grigori: "Legends say that the children of > >the Grigori created were... known... as the Nephallim...." > > And legends aren't always right. This seems to be a very weak > statement, for canon. > Well, the book further says (toward the bottom right of p. 105) "What few angels know, even today, is that beyond their gigantic spawn, the malevolent Nephallim...." That seems to imply that the legend got at least *that * right. > >Also, the description says, "beyond... the malevolent Nephallim, the > >Grigori also engendered half-breed children, seemingly human yet > >part-angel." Has anybody attempted to expand on these Children of the > >Grigori There is a long description of them on p. 106... but I just wonder: > > How many Forces do they have? What Songs (if any) are available to them? > >Do they have any Choir Attunements? > > I've been playing with them a bit, and see 6-7 Forces as a good level -- You were reading my mind. I was thinking along the lines of 7 Forces, as well. > after all, they shouldn't be *significantly* more powerful than humans, > or they'd stand out more. The tack I'm taking is that they may have > "intrinisic" Songs of any type, but not attunements. I.e., they may use > some Song or fixed set of Songs (chosen at character creation) Apparently there are other people in agreement with you. The general consensus seems to be that the Children would not have any Choir Attunements, since they aren't truly a choir to begin with. > unconsciously, especially in critical situations -- the same sort of > time a normal human might expend Essence. Thus, they account neatly for > sorcerers, witches, and random miracle-workers, without necessarily > being tremendously powerful. Some might gain conscious control of their > Essence and their Songs, especially if they were trained by celestials. > These are all interesting ideas.... Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us - -------------------- Don't panic! I have a new .sig! - -------------------- Instruction Booklet for this message: STEP 1: Open mouth. STEP 2: Insert foot. STEP 3: Chew vigorously. STEP 4: Repeat as needed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:06:04 -0400 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Do androids dream in the Marches? Re: IN> Yet another Word-bound... >> >The question is either meaningless or redundant. You do (or try to do) >about their souls what you do about the souls of mortals -- get them >on your side and headed your way. The question is, *do* they go to an >afterlife? Or does the soul of a construct just disband at death? > Being under the purvey of either Jean or Vapula, I'd say that in this context, it's safe to assume that computers aren't using souls provided to them by God, but possibly in rare cases of the really special one might have souls engendered to them by the mortals that create or programm them being as esoteric and mind-stretching a task as that of Great Art. This would be another example of Humanity as the main battlefield in the War, they're capable of greatness and foulness beyond the scope of Archangels or the Princes. Being creations of man, however the souls of such constructs are prone to dissipation at "death" unless the construct itself had acheived some kind of destiny or fate. IMNSHO, of course. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:36:34 -0400 From: Morbus Subject: Re: IN> Character Creation and GM aid >Dear In Nomine staff, >I was wondering if there were any plans for a GM aid for the PC. If you >have none in the pipline I was wandering how I stood writing one and >using your source material, (GIF'S Character sheets etc) >You can contact me at andrew@tsll.demon.co.uk >great game keep up the good work,. ;-P The information you request is actually on their webpage somewhere. I don't recall the exact words but basically the answer is a big fat NO. I mean, you could make it and so forth, but it would be incredibly illegal, so don't go showing them. I have wanted to make my own things too, but based on their description on the website, I don't think they would even consider an offer. oh... and I'm not a staff member... <\/> of disobey [---www.totalnetnh.net\~morbus---] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 13:09:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> Grigori, etc. On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, David Edelstein sent me the following Celestial Song of Tongues... > > >>>This just makes you wonder what further purpose Yves has in mind for > Gabriel as the war plays itself out, doesn't it?<<< > > Doesn't it, though? ;) > Yeah, it does... Hmmmm.... I just had a thought.... What was God's Covenant with Noah? Didn't He promise Noah that the world would never again be destroyed by flood--the next time it would be destroyed by fire.... Gabriel's Word is "Fire"..... > >>>Also, it seems that Dominic is skating on thin ice in the Heavenly Host. > If he finds himself "balked by Yves" the one who "name[d] God", then > Dominic certainly seems to be in serious danger of being heretical himself, > doesn't he?<<< > > Yves doesn't make accusations of heresy. Think of him as the one guy who > can appeal Dominic's rulings to a higher court... > Heh. Good point. > >>>2) While I liked the description of the Grigori given on this > list/digest, the Nephallim have left a bad taste in my mouth. If I'm > reading the description of the Grigori right, then *all* the Grigori > fell.<<< > > It's probably more accurate to say they all became Outcasts. Some Fell, > some didn't. > Yeah, I know. I goofed, and used the wrong word. I misinterpreted "excommunicate" (the word used in the book) to be synonymous with "Fall". My error. > >>>Has anybody attempted to expand on these Children of the > Grigori There is a long description of them on p. 106... but I just wonder: > How many Forces do they have? What Songs (if any) are available to them? > Do they have any Choir Attunements?<<< > > They wouldn't have Choir attunements since they are not angels, they're > humans. They might have Songs, and I'd guess they'd have more Forces than > the average human (though not as many as the average angel). > The general consensus seems to average around 7 for this. A little more than a Soldier/Undead, but not quite enough for the rest of the angels. > >>>3) Christianity is mentioned several times throughout the text (though, > a Christianity I'm not familiar with). This also leads me to wonder: Who > was Jesus? Some claim he was the Son of God... is this necessarily true > (in game world)? If not, then who was he? And what role does he play in > the Symphony?<<< > > This is something that I believe will deliberately be left undefined in the > official In Nomine universe. Note that even the Archangels don't agree on > the nature of Jesus's divinity, which means there are some mysteries that > only God knows the answer to. > Agreed. That means that if these so-called "devout Christians" were to know the truth (Nicole is asked in "A Bright Dream": "Aren't angels Christian?" She replies: "No more than the universe is Christian."), they would be doing what the blurb on the back of the book says Celestials do sometimes: "And some wonder, in the small hours of the night, if they picked the right side." So, then, what of the Saints? Are these the Boddhisattvas that are mentioned in the book in passing? Or do they serve a higher purpose? Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us - -------------------- Don't panic! I have a new .sig! - -------------------- Instruction Booklet for this message: STEP 1: Open mouth. STEP 2: Insert foot. STEP 3: Chew vigorously. STEP 4: Repeat as needed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 13:03:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> people who run In Nomine On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, MR JOSEPH B CONNOLLY wrote: > The other night me and some friends sat down and tried running this game. > Let me tell you, I've read the books, I've read the mailing list for a > while, and I *love* the In Nomine setting. The rules for it, IMHO, suck > severely. Also, I think some of the various attunements need to be > powered > up or powered down for considerations of game balance. > I recall someone a while back said they were thinking about converting the > game to White Wolf style rules. White wolf aren't that great at rules either IMHO. However, I *do* recommend the official GURPS translation of the In Nomine rules that Steve Jackson Games keeps on their site at io.com. Not only do the rules work (a GURPS trademark), but by using GURPS to set point valus for attunements, you don't have to worry whether they are all equal in power or not. If you take a weak attunement, you have more points for something else. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 18:45:33 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> people who run In Nomine Kingsley Lintz said:- > > > > severely. Also, I think some of the various attunements need to be powered > > up or powered down for considerations of game balance. My friend told me > This aspect, I have to say, doesn't bother me. Nor me either. Personally, I'm working on an adventure which encourages *role-playing* as opposed to powergaming. And as any good GM knows, there are always ways and means to get around powergamers in a group. First and foremost is "The Rule of NO", whereby you can simply outlaw a player's character before the game even gets off the ground if it's obviously geared _in_extremis_ towards muchos power in one particular area (the all-too-often present "combat monster" is an unfortuneately commonly seen occurrence in many RPGs - Gangrel bringers of death spring to mind from all of the VTM games I've been in). IMHO, the better way to get around problems such as these are that powergamers or overpowered characters tend to be somewhat one-dimensional in their approaches to problems, so I love to give PCs like that enough rope to hang themselves with. :-) > > characters. The problem is how confusing and vague the rules are for > > generating characters. I think it's a great setting, but the poor layout > I didn't have TOO much trouble with that, though I will admit > there are a couple of big glitches in the layout on character > generation..(the effects of Vessel levels coming under Combat, for > example, and the comment about buying new Choir Attunements for 5 points > only showing up way off under Archangels...I didn't even know about that > one until I saw people talking about it on the List, and I'd read the book > pretty thoroughly.) > Yeah, that's definitely one area that needs reworking for the second edition of the Core Book (I assume that after all the comments made and still ongoing on it since its release that one is being, at least tentatively, planned). I recommend a series of summary sheets for all of the relavent sections on character generation, game mechanics and rules, so that even if the layout stays the same that all the relavent information can be found in one place together when desired. Personally, I think that In Nomine should take a leaf out of GURPS' book and cross- reference everything to death; I've never had any trouble finding the rule section or game mechanic I'm looking for in GURPS Third Edition, revised or either of the two Compendia. Yes, I know that In Nomine is nowhere *near* as rules-heavy as GURPS is, but it's a useful thing to have in any future editions coming out. > > for some of the various weak spots in the book rules. Still, I think > > personally I'll be ditching the whole d666 thing in favor of a game system > I don't know...I like the IDEA of the d666, but in practice, it's > definitely too simplistic..*sigh* Too easy to get automatic successes, > mainly, though that's somewhat justifiable on the note that we ARE talking > about supernatural beings here.. Yeah, I'll agree with that. I love the whole simplicity of the D666 system, myself; I've heard someone describe it as "munchkinlike" in its simplicity. Don't get me wrong, I love good, solid, realistic RPGs and RPG systems like, you guessed it, GURPS, but I love the whole cinematic nature of the D666 system, the premise for the background detail and so forth. That I tend to get a buzz out of (I wouldn't quite say "enjoy") GMing "by the seat of your pants" is also a plus in favour of In Nomine from my own point of view. > > > that make me wince when I notice that a Long Sword, a Battle Axe, and an > > M-16 all have the same modifier to the check digit for damage? Likewise, > In combat, however, I'd have to agree it has definite, crippling > failings...though, again, there can be some justification when you > consider that the weapons were designed by humans (who, with CorpF2 and > Strength5 - relatively beefy for a human - would have 20 body hits..most > will range from more like 4 to 12..). Within THAT range, just a couple > points added to the Power of an attack would make a difference...and to an > extent, there's actually NOT that much difference between a battle axe and > a machine gun, except the note that it's generally easier to go at someone > with the latter. Quite so. Personally, I like the suggestion (whoever suggested it I cannot remember for the life of me) of doubling, tripling, or even *quadrupling* damage done to non-celestials, which I think is about right for simulating realistic levels. > (Their Accuracies I have more problems with, and their > `unarmed combat' lackofsystem is a serious hole, but..) Picky, picky, picky... but yes, I concede the point. I suppose it does merit a little bit reworking, but not much. Personally, I like the "lightness" of the rules system as it stands, and I don't want to see it getting bogged down over the old bugbear of combat in RPGs. > Particularly on > the note that even their fully automatic weapons only, apparently, go up > to `burst'... The make up your own rules for sustained automatic fire, or in the very best tradition of GMing, wing it. :-) [an ickle bit snipped] > Celestials, Soldiers of God, and Undead have the potential to have > more than 100 hits, of course, for which a lot of the Power bonuses cease > to matter..but when you consider this is five times any reasonable human > maximum, it's similarly reasonable to presume that humans just don't have > weapons in that range. Barring tanks, TOW missiles, or thermite grenades... ;-) > What *SHOULD* be in that range are Songs...my > personal feeling on it is, with Songs that do damage, forget about > counting Essence as a +1...use it as a multiplier. Songs should be able > to seriously rip through things, since they were designed by and for > people capable of reaching that level... > Heh. This I *like*. But again, it could be open to abuse by powergamers searching for the ultimate "combat monster" character. As a GM, I'd simply let them go play with a 15 Force combat-tweaked Demon (or Angel) from Hell, pardon the pun. > > Anyway, I'm interested in how many people decided to just go with the > > setting and the supernatural powers, but run the game with a different set > > of game mechanics. Anyone? > But, to actually answer your question ()...no, not really, > but we have considered dumping the mechanics almost entirely and just > going by feel. {Using the Amber Diceless system's `mechanics', as it > were..} > Hmm. Never played Amber, despite an adventure being proposed almost totally organised on at least two occasions. Demon of Disorganisation at work, perchance? [Posiible quote: "Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war!" Or maybe that's another one for Baal...] Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 18:07:15 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> IN:> Disturbance Thoughts On Fri, 4 Jul 1997 18:13:05 +1000 (EST), Peter Frederick wrote: >Could there be a qualitative difference between different disturbances to >the Symphony? Somehow it seems odd that all disturbances are the same >whether they occur because a Celestial set of a bomb and blew a big hole in >the ground (lots of Body Hits) or poisoned a class full of children (no Body >Hits, but plenty of Deaths) or expended a pile of Essence or Sang a big Song >(fiddling with Causality). While I can't recall anything Canon that >suggests such a qualitative difference, it is something that might add to >the game and could be given as a roleplaying aid or as the result of a good >perception roll to sense the disturbance (or both). If you check the disturbance sensing check digits at the end of page 55, a check digit of 3 gives a general idea of what happened, and a CD of 6 is very detailed. >When is the disturbance heard? When Shep stops shooting people long enough >for the disturbances not to add? Each disturbance (with some Song exceptions) is heard when it happens. If another disturbance adds to the first, the combination is heard in addition to the first. So assuming people with 3 corporeal forces were being killed, you'd hear successive disturbances of 13, 26, 39, 52,... >After the first two disturbances have added do you have to wait twice as >long (time based on the new higher Degree of Disturbance from the added >disturbances) before the next disturbance won't add? How close disturbances have to be to add is GM option at this point AFAIK. >Do the disturbances come out as bigger and bigger "booms", effectively >saying "one dead", "two dead", "three dead" or as nothing then as one big >"fifteen people dead" boom? The former, unless the action is shielded by a song. >Do disturbances from different Celestials add together? GM option, but I'd say yes if they're part of the same action sequence or combat. >I know that the "Noise" of a disturbance is not a real noise but real noises >don't just add up in a directly mathematical way, as far as I know, they >tend to overwrite each other to some degree. Should Disturbances add >directly, or should they combine to something maybe not as big, say half the >smaller of the two before adding? This "discounting factor" could be bigger >if the origin of the disturbances is different (eg a song and corporeal >damage) and smaller if the disturbance comes from repeated similar actions >(eg our sniper). According to the book, they add--page 55, paragraph above Echoes. >On the question of the Sniper, does the combustion of the propellent in the >ammunition cause a disturbance? Okay, I guess the answer is Yes, >but bugger all. On the other hand the bullets will do the same damage to >whatever they hit so there is gonna be a disturbance at the other end no >matter what his skill is . If the bullet killed a few blades of grass, I wouldn't rule a disturbance; nor nicking a rock. Maybe 1 point of disturbance for getting a rabbit. >>From my quick count of the way Disturbances are heard the distance one can >generally be perceived at is multiplied by 10 for ever 3 times the Degree of >Disturbance goes up. This means if I do something three times quickly, say >sing a Song of Healing, it can be heard ten times as far away. This seems a >bit much,. but no idea what to do about it. If the disturbance doubles, so does the basic range. Page 55 again. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:33:35 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... > > They may be a "third side" in the War. > > > You mean that there's actually somebody fighting on the *human's* > side in the War? ;-) Hehe...seen Men In Black yet? I've been really liking the idea of looking at In Nomine from the human point of view, with a secret organization that exists to keep the Celestials under control as best they can...("Look, son...you've heard of the Great War between Good and Evil, right? Well, it's real. There are Angels and there are Demons, and they spend a lot of time fighting each other..and frankly, neither side usually much cares if we get in the way. Our job is to keep an eye on these people - you'll be learning how to listen for them later - and keep them from doing too much collateral damage to humanity. Don't be fooled into thinking the sides matter...Mercurians are usually okay, but most of the Angels are just as focused on their War as the Demons are.") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 13:00:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Kyrio/Shedim/Possession vs. Cherub/Djinn/Attraction questions > >>OK, what if that piece of the Kyrio *does* go to the Celestial plane but > >>the rest of it stays on the Corp. plane? > >Be kind -- let the Cherub/Djinn track the remainder, if it's all in > >one place besides other realms. > Ok, so what if the part of the Kyrio that went to the Celestial plane comes > back to some other place on the Corporeal Plane and then the part of the > Kyrio that was tracked goes to the Celestial Plane? ;> If they've got a good enough bead on the Kyrio to track it in the first place, they can still track it. (Remember, the Kyriotate isn't a collection of 9 associated beings..it's one being capable of occupying up to 9 separate locations. (Well, presuming 9 Forces, obviously.) Along with the myriad advantages of that, you have to accept the occasional disadvantage as well...) Though, while a Kyriotate can "go Celestial" with only 3 Forces, I would personally rule that actually ascending to Heaven (off the Corporeal plane, as has been noted elsewhere) would still require the entire Kyriotate go. It IS a bit of a jump, after all.. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 13:07:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Calibim of Kronos with Belseraph attunement (Malaki > > be from among the Fallen. (I'd still say they probably couldn't take the > > Lilim Resonance, though, because they aren't Angels to start with..) > Lilim aren't celestials, if you ask me. *ahem* Ceian, are Lilim Celestials? There...it's settled, then. I agree; I think Lilith and the Lilim are something perhaps only subtly different, but nonetheless a unique kind of creature.. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:03:33 +0500 From: "James Rand" Subject: Re: IN> people who run In Nomine > White wolf aren't that great at rules either IMHO. However, I *do* No, they're not. I wanted In Nomine in WW rules so I could run it as a crossover with Mage, though. (Would put a whole new slant on your Enochian-style Order of Hermes characters, wouldn't it?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:52:27 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure : Graduation Party > >My error: IOU, where U stands for university. I stands for Illuminati. > >You're not classified to know what the O stands for. (I'm not sure that > >anyone short of the ArchDean is. :)) > > If anyone else knew, I suspect it would be me. And she won't tell me, > either.... Actually, if anybody knew, I'd suspect Archangel Beth would (is the Archdean a manifestation of Beth, or vice versa?). I have my guess, but I'm keeping it to myself, so the AD's CIB (Cats In Black) don't come after me. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -George Carlin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 17:13:08 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Sourcebooks [Highway Star] >I finally broke down and bought a SECOND hardback IN - this time demonic >(the first was angelic). >Now when I run my game I can hand the angels the white cover, the demons >the black cover, and I have most of the rules memorized, or I can just >confiscate one of the books - and that's assuming that I can't get a hold of >the GM's screen before I start in about two weeks.:) My husband and I had to get 2 copies of the hardback too. But that mostly has to do with the difference in the way he and I view sourcebooks. My husband thinks of sourcebooks as Holy Writ. He tries to keep his copy totally pristine. He tries not to break the spine, etc. Me, I think of sourcebooks as working manuals. I highlight things I need to remember. I cross out things I don't like... I put rules interpretations and house rules in the margins so they are easy to find... If we didn't have two copies, I think we'd end up killing each other... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "When our vices leave us, we flatter ourselves with the credit of having left them. ** ** -- La Rochefoucauld ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 17:58:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Dean of Wuse Walter Milliken claimed: - - ---Walter (aka Dean of WUSE) Would that be the Silly Dean, the Wierd Dean, or the Darkly Illuminated Dean? , Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 17:29:10 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... [Kingsley Lintz] > Hehe...seen Men In Black yet? I've been really liking the idea of >looking at In Nomine from the human point of view, with a secret >organization that exists to keep the Celestials under control as best they >can...("Look, son...you've heard of the Great War between Good and Evil, >right? Well, it's real. There are Angels and there are Demons, and they >spend a lot of time fighting each other..and frankly, neither side usually >much cares if we get in the way. Our job is to keep an eye on these >people - you'll be learning how to listen for them later - and keep them >from doing too much collateral damage to humanity. Don't be fooled into >thinking the sides matter...Mercurians are usually okay, but most of the >Angels are just as focused on their War as the Demons are.") I think that would be an awesome idea for a campaign! And just the concept that there is such an agency could complicate matters for groups that are primarily Celestial... As if the Angels and Demons didn't have enough to worry about with fighting each other while sticking with their resonance to avoid Disonnance, without creating too much noise in the Symphony, they can now have to worry about those humans "In the Know" interfering too... :) Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "When our vices leave us, we flatter ourselves with the credit of having left them. ** ** -- La Rochefoucauld ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 18:11:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Disturbances [Hi Peter! Peter philosophized: More information than "Something's Up." Could there be a qualitative difference between different disturbances to the Symphony? Somehow it seems odd that all disturbances are the same whether they occur because a Celestial set of a bomb and blew a big hole in the ground (lots of Body Hits) or poisoned a class full of children (no Body Hits, but plenty of Deaths) or expended a pile of Essence or Sang a big Song (fiddling with Causality). While I can't recall anything Canon that suggests such a qualitative difference, it is something that might add to the game and could be given as a roleplaying aid or as the result of a good perception roll to sense the disturbance (or both). [me: Actually, Canon (p 55, 2nd col, bottom) allows you to get a vague idea of what the disturbance was (CD is 3+), or a detailed description of it (CD is 6). Certain attunements allow more, such as Malakim of Yves.] Adding Disturbances. Do the disturbances come out as bigger and bigger "booms", effectively saying "one dead", "two dead", "three dead" or as nothing then as one big "fifteen people dead" boom? Do disturbances from different Celestials add together? [ The former. (p55, 2nd col, 3rd para.) ] I know that the "Noise" of a disturbance is not a real noise but real noises don't just add up in a directly mathematical way, as far as I know, they tend to overwrite each other to some degree. Should Disturbances add directly, or should they combine to something maybe not as big, say half the smaller of the two before adding? This "discounting factor" could be bigger if the origin of the disturbances is different (eg a song and corporeal damage) and smaller if the disturbance comes from repeated similar actions (eg our sniper). [ Canon implies either they add, or are toatally separate. I like my `bleeds off at 1/min' rule better though - it allows for partial association.] On the other hand the bullets will do the same damage to whatever they hit so there is gonna be a disturbance at the other end no matter what his skill is . [Of course, some things are more important to the Symphony than others.] From my quick count of the way Disturbances are heard the distance one can generally be perceived at is multiplied by 10 for ever 3 times the Degree of Disturbance goes up. This means if I do something three times quickly, say sing a Song of Healing, it can be heard ten times as far away. This seems a bit much, but no idea what to do about it. [Disturbance works on a square. Range that a Disturbance can be heard with an unmodified Perception roll is (CF)*(DoD)^2 yards. (CF is hearer's Celestial forces.) This happens to be what you observed (3^2=9).] Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 17:24:53 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> people who run In Nomine [David.Evans] >Nor me either. Personally, I'm working on an adventure which encourages >*role-playing* as opposed to power gaming. And as any good GM knows, >there are always ways and means to get around powerlines in a group. >First and foremost is "The Rule of NO", whereby you >can simply outlaw a player's character before the game even gets off the >ground if it's obviously geared _in_extremis_ towards muchos power in one >particular area Here, here! [David.Evans] >(the all-too-often present "combat monster" is an >unfortuneately commonly seen occurrence in many RPGs - Gangrel bringers >of death spring to mind from all of the VTM games I've been in). IMHO, >the better way to get around problems such as these are that powergamers >or overpowered characters tend to be somewhat one-dimensional in their >approaches to problems, so I love to give PCs like that enough rope to >hang themselves with. :-) Heheheh... Yeah, I do that too. I've run entire Shadowrun adventures, three and four weeks long, where not a single shot was fired... Sure throws off the combat monsters... And In Nomine is much easier to design non-Combat adventures for... >> > for some of the various weak spots in the book rules. Still, I think >> > personally I'll be ditching the whole d666 thing in favor of a game system [Kingsley Lintz] >> I don't know...I like the IDEA of the d666, but in practice, it's >> definitely too simplistic..*sigh* Too easy to get automatic successes, >> mainly, though that's somewhat justifiable on the note that we ARE talking >> about supernatural beings here.. I rather like the simplistic mechanics... But then again, I'm the sort who can go whole sessions without asking my players for a single die roll... Or ask them to make rolls just to rattle them up, and do nothing with them... Heck, I even like GMing OTE, whose character creation system basically says, "Come up with any idea for a character you like. Now define that character in 4 terms-- 3 Traits and 1 Flaw. Tell us what those traits mean. Now pick any gear that fits..." [David.Evans] >Yeah, I'll agree with that. I love the whole simplicity of the D666 >system, myself; I've heard someone describe it as "munchkinlike" in its >simplicity. Don't get me wrong, I love good, solid, realistic RPGs and >RPG systems like, you guessed it, GURPS, but I love the whole cinematic >nature of the D666 system, the premise for the background detail and so >forth. That I tend to get a buzz out of (I wouldn't quite say "enjoy") >GMing "by the seat of your pants" is also a plus in favour of In Nomine >from my own point of view. I especially like GMing the unexpected divine and infernal interventions when they come up. It can be lots of fun trying to think of things that can happen that fit the circumstances in such cases... Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon karydbis@phoenix.net ** "When our vices leave us, we flatter ourselves with the credit of having left them. ** ** -- La Rochefoucauld ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 23:22:18 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> people who run In Nomine Kingsley Lintz wrote: > In combat, however, I'd have to agree it has definite, > crippling > failings...though, again, there can be some justification when you > consider that the weapons were designed by humans (who, with CorpF2 > and > Strength5 - relatively beefy for a human - would have 20 body > hits..most > will range from more like 4 to 12..). Yeah, that's a good point. The Celestials are hugely superior if we compare them to humans. I got a human player (Human, not Soldier) and he's pissed off because he almost never succeed in a roll... "How did humans do anything in this world???", he cries. Hmmm, giving it a little thought, it's pretty true... Andre ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 23:21:55 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Some Free Roaming Thoughts... Charybdis GreyDragon wrote: > [Kingsley Lintz] > > Hehe...seen Men In Black yet? I've been really liking the > idea of > >looking at In Nomine from the human point of view, with a secret > >organization that exists to keep the Celestials under control as best > they > >can... > I think that would be an awesome idea for a campaign! > > And just the concept that there is such an agency could > complicate matters > for groups that are primarily Celestial... As if the Angels and > Demons > didn't have enough to worry about with fighting each other while > sticking > with their resonance to avoid Disonnance, without creating too much > noise > in the Symphony, they can now have to worry about those humans "In the > > Know" interfering too... :) > Wow, I liked it!!! By the way, any1 has seen the MIB movie?? It can serve for a humorous campaign... Andre ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #237 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.