From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Sep 10 20:01:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17729 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:01:18 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id TAA16681 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:44:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:44:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199709110044.TAA16681@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #334 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, September 10 1997 Volume 01 : Number 334 In this digest: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) Re: IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine Re: IN> 6+ Skills (the human "Gift") Re: IN>Homosexuality in In Nomine IN> Know the Enemy #666 -- Furfur Re: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) Re: IN> The Four Horsemen and the Word of Pollution Re: IN> 6+ Skills (the human "Gift") IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... IN> Re: issonance, Discord, and Falling Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) IN> Geas Factory Lilim... Re: IN> Night Music: "...a skill known at Level 6 or better..." Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... IN> Re: Another take on Eli Re: IN> Night Music: "...a skill known at Level 6 or better..." IN> Skills higher than 6 IN> Yves: Mechanics Re: IN> Lilim Again Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) IN> Falling in Strange Ways ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:53:39 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) On Sep 9, 10:55pm, zingaro@peak.org wrote: > Subject: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) > > > >(Until the expanded Lilim rules are published.) > > Can you say when and where? > Oh no. Is SJG gonna do the TSR/White Wolf thing and put out seventy-two > choir books, and Expanded Servitor foldouts and cetera? No! No, no, no, no! *Whew!* Let's nip that little rumor in the bud. There are going to be two player's guides. One for angelic characters and one for demonic. A few new choirs/bands may show up from time to time in other supplements, but those will be the rarer and more limited ones (the demons of fear and the angels of hope mostly stick to the marches, for example). Superiors will be expanded on as necessary (i.e. the new info will part of some other product, not 3 dozen individual superior books). You will not see the Seraph Choirbook or the Guide to David! (In fact, I have the Toreador Clanbook right at my desk here. 72 pages and around half of it is fluff like Templates and full-page splash art. Ten bucks. I'm awfully glad I'm borrowing it rather than having bought it myself since I found exactly _three_ pages useful for my Toreador character!) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:56:17 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Dissonance, Discord, and Falling > Of course, Discord is nasty enough, and is not well-regarded by most other > angels. But we're already postulating, in the situation described > previously, that the angel in question has gotten its self-sacrifice OKed > by Dominic, and presumably its own Superior as well. And if a *Malakite* > can do that, surely any other angel could. The thing is that a Malakite can look at one of Dominic's servants and say, "Look *hack wheeze!*, I can't Fall, so go off and play somewhere, alright?" The typical angel with over 6 points of Discord is just _asking_ for an inquisition... - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:02:14 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine On Sep 10, 10:24am, Kim Foster wrote: > Subject: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine > I hope this hasn't been done to death on the list before I joined. But I was > wondering what people's opinions were on the "status" ( I guess that would > be the word) of homosexuality and homosexuals in the In Nomine universe. Is > it a great sin among the angelic side, accepted, just not considered > important? This comes up as a player in my game wants to play a Soilder that > happens to be a homosexual. Canon: Most, if not all, angels don't care. They are beyond mere gender... especially if they don't currently have a vessel around. Demons have pretty much the same opinion except for those that have specific mission or words. All that physical stuff is merely the ephemeral vessel for the only important thing: the soul. Many angels don't even really understand the concept of sex until they get a vessel and experience it! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:28:56 -0400 From: Kimble Foster Subject: Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine At 11:36 AM 9/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > As far as "christian" televangelists talking about how God hates >homos, remember one thing: Who put the "tele" in televangelist? >:} I >don't think Larry or Dom inspired those guys. > Stay Cool; > -Sir Colin > > > Ohhh neat idea. Popular prejudice aginst gays,lesbians, etc etc being inspired infernally to create yet another thing to feel shame, hatred and fear about and all the while looking "morale". Those with the inclination are made into scapegoats and outcasts. They may even be more susceptible to other manipulation as they are made to feel they are "evil" already. Very neat...very subtle. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:32:54 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> 6+ Skills (the human "Gift") like Stacy, the Human Gift suggestion has my vote for canonization. tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:38:39 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN>Homosexuality in In Nomine Hrmm...I felt that Dominic would not have a problem with the homosexuality of one of his Soldiers because "he" (as a Seraph) has at best a tenuous grasp (at best) on the entire gender issue. I also see Dominic as being interested in Christianity as a whole, rather than the Roman Church in particular. Just a few more thoughts... Mark (a member of the Episcopal Church, Dioscese of Olympia, and an independent-minded Christian) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:53:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> Know the Enemy #666 -- Furfur [Because nobody else has been brave/stupid enough to do it. Well, I'm *brave*, certainly. I just doubt I got *stupid* enough. Maybe if I tied half my brain behind my back... Nah, that's for Soldiers of Malphas.] Know the Enemy (series created by Elizabeth McCoy) A comprehensive course for young demons, in determining the strengths and weaknesses of The Enemy. #666: As delivered by a Servitor of Hardcore (to the initial crop of Hardcore Imps and Gremlins) Choirs ====== Seraphim: They tell it like it is, and if someone's widdle feewings get hurt, they're like "Them's the breaks, kid." Now if they'd just learn to loosen up a little, they might actually become cool. Cherubim: Basic bruisers. They can track you anywhere, but once you start somethin' with them, that don't matter. Ofanim: One of two Choirs that's almost Hardcore. They're all over the place. It's like swattin' flies, man! Elohim: They say they see all sides of everything. So how do they stay so fraggin' *calm* all the time? One thing ol' match-head's boys got right -- it's fun to start stompin' these guys and see how long they can stay objective about *that*. Malakim: Caught in a mosh. The *real* hardcore Choir. Good in a fight, even if they *are* in your face 'stead of at your back. Kyriotates: Get all nervous if you trash up the guy they're wearing. Good for cheap laughs. Mercurians: Oh sure, they can dance and sing -- but they mostly listen to adult contemporary! Gag me! Mosh on their faces! Servitors of... =============== Blandine: Hangs out in the Marches, so we can't really touch her or her posse. But every time we drop the truth on somebody -- every time one of our Balseraphs moshes on somebody's hopes -- it hurts her a little bit more. Christopher: Get all whiny 'cause we're bustin' the illusions of the poor widdle kiddies. Who needs 'em anyway? David: They can't start a fight, but damn! can they finish it! Real rough boys! If they weren't on the wrong side, we could get along! Dominic: Like Azzie for angels. Not much you can do about 'em till we figure out a way to let a Baron of Hardcore do his thing on angels. Eli: Loser. No taste in music. No wonder he bugged out. Gabriel: They don't like ol' weasel-head Belial, which would make 'em pretty damn righteous as angels go if they weren't after *us* too. The lady is crazy, and so's her posse. Janus: You can really get into it with these guys -- 'least until they cut and run. Jean: Only one point in his favor, and that's electricity. We'd still be bangin' rocks together without it. Part from that, just a bunch of geeks hiding in their labs. Jordi: Weird. They won't back down from a fight, but sometimes they won't start anything unless you do. Oh well. Laurence: These guys listen to too much Stryper and Petra. Not as much fun in a scrap as David or Michael, but nice for blowing off stress. Litheroy: He's big on the truth, hard or soft. Too bad he's an angel or he'd be pretty fraggin' righteous. Marc: Wimp. Michael: Not all angels are wimps, guys. And if you get to thinking different, these guys'll be happy to set you straight. David turned up to 11. *DAMN!* And they work alone, too! These are *the* Hardcore angels! There's no other Word for 'em! They still need their butts kicked every once in a while, though. Novalis: Peace, love and understanding? Yaright. I gotcher peace and love right here, hippie-dip! Yves: Talk, talk, talk! *BO-RING!* When one of these guys comes up and starts running his yap, just break his face! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:41:14 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) John Karakash: "In fact, I have the Toreador Clanbook right at my desk here. 72 pages and around half of it is fluff like Templates and full-page splash art. Ten bucks. I'm awfully glad I'm borrowing it rather than having bought it myself since I found exactly _three_ pages useful for my Toreador character!)" Well...that one's not exactly fair. CB:Toreador is generally agreed to be the worst Clanbook of them all (up there with CB: Setite). And, with the Libellus Sanguinus series for V:DA, it looks like they're starting to agree about the content of Clanbooks. yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:58:31 -0700 From: Ben Goetter Subject: Re: IN> The Four Horsemen and the Word of Pollution (PLEASE accept my most abject apologies for the last crap I took on this list. I cringe in embarrassment and humiliation.) > From: Casca > > On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > War (Belial?) > > Baal would work better, I think. Belial is about random destruction, > whereas Baal is about destruction for a specific purpose. > > Belial started the London fire of 1666; Baal fire-bombed London in WW2. But Baal's more the Clausewitz-style approach to war ("War is... an act of force to compel our enemy to do our will"), whereas the Horseman focuses exclusively on the internecine, destructive aspect of War. The Horseman doesn't care whether the Axis triumph over the Allies, so long as the body count is high and the buildings burrrrn. I prefer Belial in the role. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:05:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Hobbes Subject: Re: IN> 6+ Skills (the human "Gift") According to Stacy Stroud: > I suppose the "Gift" skill should probably be tied somehow to the human's > destiny? (I figure one's highest potential in the Symphony probably has > something to do with one's greatest gift *from* the Symphony. Makes sense, > eh?) > > If you're looking for support from the peanut gallery, this idea gets mine. > Canonize it! I think this is a really great idea, but it needs a counterpart. If the gift is wrapped up in destiny, then there should be some weakness wrapped up in fate. Some skill that can't go above 2 or 3 no matter HOW hard the person works. That would be a great slant for a demon - to get someone to practice 6 hours a day on the violin only to be turned down by orchestra after orchestra because they just don't have "the touch". Dan Ozdowski thinks his "weakness" is dice-rolling :) - -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\//\ Beware the single most feared person in life..... The Articulate Incompetent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:54:27 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... I think they are actually Angels, probably of Dominic. I wish I had a bible with me, but the quote goes something like: ...and when I heard the fourth trumpet, behold, the Heavens parted and I saw four Horsemen, and they were given power to smite the earth, and the first rode a red horse, and his name was War, and the second rode a black horse and his name was Pestilence, and the third rode a white horse and his name was Famine, and the fourth rode a pale horse and his name was Death. And they were unleashed to punish the world... Obviously, this is just off the top of my head, but I'm fairly sure it's close. No mention of *what* these guys are, but the implications of the rest of the passage are that they are on God's side, and being held back for the "special circumstances" of the last day. Trying Hard, Mark (Fundamentalist Christianity is a great place to be *from*) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:35:23 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: issonance, Discord, and Falling >Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 01:47:12 -0400 >From: Stacy Stroud > >The subject is Malakim taking dissonance deliberately in order to let a >demon live while the Malakite leads it back toward the Light. > >Quoth the lovely ArchBeth: > >>And a Malakite can also get away with it because Malakim don't Fall -- >>the worst that could happen is he'd get a lot of Discord. And if the >>demon *did* get Redeemed, it might be worth it! > > >Hmm. > >Can't *every* angel pull this trick, though? > >Anyone can trade 3 notes of dissonance for Discord, right? > >And since the dissonance roll is made *before* the new note of dissonance >is added each time, an angel can accumulate 3 notes of dissonance without >ever being in danger of Casting Out, much less Falling. > >First screwup: Roll 1+ on any of 3 dice (can't fail). Gain 1st note of >dissonance. > >Second screwup: Roll 1+ on any of 3 dice (can't fail). Gain 2nd note. > >Third screwup: Roll 2+ on any of 3 dice (can't fail due to 111 rule). Gain >3rd note. > >Trade all 3 notes in for 1 level of Discord. Dissonance meter resets. > >Repeat as needed, until you're a crippled emotionally-disordered >psychopath, or until your Archangel puts you out of your (and his/her) >misery, whichever comes first. > Mmm, missed one thing. Rolling a 666 will always shove you into the deep end, if you're an Angel, regardless of how much Dissonance you have. And an interesting thing about the way Dissonance mechanics work. Three options exist. Complete wipe (Favorable intervention), Gain one point of Dissonance (Regular old success), or Disaster (Failure/Unfavorable Intervention). So it's impossible for any Celestial to accumulate more than 7 points of Dissonance, unless someone specifically slaps him with it. You'll either get Disaster, or a Wipe on your Eighth consecutive dissonant act. Dissonance Mechanics Probabilty Table: Accumulated Gain Dissonance: Clean Slate Dissonance Disaster 0 0.46% 99.08% 0.46% 1 0.46% 99.08% 0.46% 2 0.46% 99.08% 0.46% 3 0.46% 95.84% 3.70% 4 0.46% 87.04% 12.5% 5 0.46% 70.24% 29.63% 6 0.46% 41.67% 57.87% 7+ 0.46% 0% 99.54% = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of six thousand. Smoking or Non? ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:02:16 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:46:33 -0400, johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) wrote: > We're working on that Geas/1 time problem right now... =) Good! As I said before, I think you have four components: difficulty, morality, task time, and punishment frequency; now they're bunched together, which doesn't make for good mechanics. Want help? >> Corp Healing is only 1 essence, IIRC. And how is it she's Evil if she's >> curing people? She'd only be Evil if she used the Geases for something >> Evil. > > Her intentions on getting the Geases are evil (self-serving, >at the very least and more likely in service to Hell). Are they? Suppose she Geases them to do community service? If we have Bright Lilim who do anything at all, we have Lilim who take Geases but then use them well, to good ends. >> I don't know. 7-9 Geases. Isn't that enough for a campaign? It seems to me >> a Lilith should be going after Geases for a specific reason, not >> shotgunning dozens of Geases. Other bands and choruses have similar >> limitations on their powers. > > That number seems low to me, as well. I envision Lilim >getting a lot of nearly-worthless Geases and occasionally needing >to call them in. That network of favors is typically useless most >of the time, but when you need someone to come fix your car at >three o'clock in the morning... ;) I guess I see Lilim differently. I see them as getting Geases to help them in specific tasks, occasionally grabbing a really good one that they save for a rainy day. As for fixing a car, that's dropping the value of Geases pretty low, don't you think? What about AAA? That's one of my objections: Geases have become tawdry, let's-see-how-many-mortals-we-can-screw-with-tonight effects. This isn't really in keeping with the moral stature of In Nomine. If Geases were limited, then Lilim would only deal with those of real value. I considered some alternate Geas limits just now, but Forces Geases seems right to me: A Geas should not be placed lightly! Lilim shouldn't be going around gathering unlimited Geases hither and yon. If nothing else, it's an accounting nightmare for the GM: he has to create NPCs for all these Geasees! Maybe Forces *mortal* Geases, with unlimited celestial Geases--Geases have to have some disruptive value on the symphony since they're changing the actions of mortals. I'm not sure they shouldn't be noisy, at least a little. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:59:45 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> Geas Factory Lilim... (I'm not quoting the current discussion) As a GM, I wouldn't allow a 'geas factory' to exist. If a character tried to start something like this, their third 'victim' would *just happen* to be a Malakim of either Michael or Laurence. If that didn't deter her, her superior would come investigate whether or not she was trying to arrange his overthrow. If *that* didn't work, I would ask the *player* to leave the gaming group. A GM has the absolute right to do what he (or she) wants in his campaign, and the players have to adapt to that. Rules lawyers and munchkins should not be allowed to run the game without the GM's permission. On interventions: I read a "111" as *GOD HIMSELF* interfering in the course of action. If I (as GM) believe God would be really pissed by what was going on when he intervened, he could do anything up to and including stripping a character's forces and launching the angel or demon into the void. Normally, this wouldn't happen, but in my first gaming session I got two 111's and *three* 666's. "The heavens part, the glory of the Lord shines all about you, and God himself comes down, stands before you, and says, 'No, No there isn't another way out.'" Sorry about the ranting level... Mark (who wonders why he received this thread in such a scrambled order) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:02:00 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Night Music: "...a skill known at Level 6 or better..." On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:17:59 -0400, johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) wrote: >> A person can make a career change, however keeping a skill at 9 requires >> constant practice. If they change careers, as soon as the new skill hits 7, >> the old skill drops to 6. They do not get the points back. > > I don't like this suggestion, not because it's unreasonable, >but because it goes against the 'destiny' spin I was putting on the >single skill. Basically, there is _one_ thing that each human >being can do remarkably well, if they but look for it and cultivate >that skill. What if skill #1 led to their Fate and skill #2 was their path to Destiny, or vice versa? Some people who have done leading edge research on projects such as the Manhattan Project have changed the course of their studies radically because of their experience. One astronaut who landed on the moon became a priest. Alexander Turing was a linguistic expert until computers arrived and he went into Computer Science, creating Turing Machines and the Turing Test, a test to see if a computer truly thinks. Early Computer Science is rife with top-notch Linguists, Mathematicians, Electrical Engineers, and others who abandoned their original fields to found Computer Science. >> Within an single skill, they can have multiple skills up to 9. For example >> Ranged Weapon-pistol/9 and Ranged Weapon-rifle/9. Practice with one is >> somewhat transferable to the other. (Another idea is that they can be above >> 6 in related skills, but still no more than 3 above, so the maximum would >> be pistol/8 and rifle/7.) > > Not bad, and only moderately unbalancing. I think the second isn't unbalancing at all, though I tend to think the first reflects reality better. >> I don't think it's been covered, but suppose you have Ranged >> Weapon-pistol/9. The usual default for Ranged Weapon is -2, so a rifle >> would be at Precision - 2--probably way too low. I tossed around some rules >> for this, but then I came across things like knowing Language-French/6 >> being useless in trying to do or learn Language-Chinese. I've come to: >> >> "The GM should consider not applying default skill penalties when the >> character knows a closely related skill, especially at a high level. For >> example, if the PC knows Ranged Weapon-pistol/6, he might waive the -2 >> default if the PC tries to use a rifle. The GM should also consider whether >> knowledge of one specialty would give a head start to study of a related >> specialty. For example, in the previous example, the GM might rule that the >> first point spent to learn Ranged Weapon-rifle would confer Ranged Weapon- >> rifle/3 due to expertise applicable from Ranged Weapon-pistol/6." > > > In the specific case of Languages, I'd let each level that the >primary skill goes above 6 to count as one level on _every_ other language >they have studied to any degree (up to 6). This should simulate language >prodigies quite well. The trouble I have with a hard and fast rule like this (though I'm usually in favor of bright-line rules) is that if you know French, say, you've got a huge head start on Italian or Spanish--the other Romance Languages. It may help you a touch with German, but it doesn't help much at all with Japanese, which has basically no common ground with the Indo-European languages. I think this is one to toss back in the GM's court. We could come up with some language diagram showing the relations between languages (I saw one in some RPG!), but I think that's out since IN is rules-light. Trust the GM on this one, says I. Just give him the opening and let him run with it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:31:17 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... Mark's memory is quite close. From the NIV translation: I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, "Come!" Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword. When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, [2] and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!" When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. The identity of the white horseman is left to inference. Personally, I think he'd best be named Tyranny or Conquest, but I think he was identified with Pestilence when the Black Death struck Europe and many thought the world was ending. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 18:23:18 -0400 From: dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org Subject: IN> Re: Another take on Eli Previously, from the desktop of Mark Eddy... >I like the idea of Eli serving his word among humans, those who best serve >his word. It's the best scenario that I thought 1) didn't have Eli outright turning against the Host (unthinkable because his nature is just wrong for it), 2) would upset the Host sufficiently (because it's just so gosh-darned unprecedented), and 3) still allows him to appear from time to time >However, I wonder... Is Eli actually trying to get ahold of Lilith to form a >third power bloc? The word of Freedom seems to be more closely aligned to >Humanity than either Heaven or Hell. Hadn't thought of that. It'd be tough -- their words almost mesh, but there's a certain difficulty of communication between them. Eli spending his time primarily on Earth, and Lilith being 'protected' by the watchful eye of Lucifer himself... (That last part isn't canon, but it certainly makes an interesting irony; she's free to leave Hell at any time, but God Himself would probably smite the crap out of her. So she finds herself a willing confinee in Hell. Kobal probably has a chuckle over this from time to time.) On the one hand, a meeting between them could produce some interesting sparks. In my purview, nothing to match the resounding effect of, say, Kobal's Big One, Eli's Fomenting Plan, or the full reemergence of the Children of the Watchers, but certainly cause to nail down the furniture. And on the other hand, she walked out of the First partnership (with Adam?), and had to enter into the Second partnership (with Lucifer) for her own safety. Given her track record with this sort of partnership, if Eli were to offer her a partnership in something big, she'd probably say 'No.' And given those first two, I doubt I'd blame her. >Just curious, Keep asking. One of the reasons I post is to clarify my OWN thinking. - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ "These days, Gabriel doesn't HAVE hot flashes..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 18:38 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Night Music: "...a skill known at Level 6 or better..." >Non-canon suggestion (please comment!) >-------------------- > Humans are allowed to have ONE skill above six. This >represents their greatest gift and is partly because of their >close ties to the Symphony. Not everyone has a skill this high... >in fact most people never even bother to excel at even _one_ thing, >but for those who try, there is something they are better at than >nearly anyone else. > This skill's limit is 9. Because the human is going far >beyond what most people ever dream of for that field, training >is nearly impossible to find or requires a _lot_ of experience >or research. I suspect this will result in most PC humans having such a high skill level. I'm not sure if this is a problem, though.... I don't particularly mind humans with skills above 6, anyway -- though I would probably want to limit characteristic+skill to <= 12. For a human to get an auto-success check digit bonus, then, they'd have to spend (or blow) Essence. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:21:25 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Skills higher than 6 Karakash wrote: " I don't like this suggestion, not because it's unreasonable, but because it goes against the 'destiny' spin I was putting on the single skill. Basically, there is _one_ thing that each human being can do remarkably well, if they but look for it and cultivate that skill." I agree with the Destiny spin with only one amendment. Humans should also have the same 'potential' ability with the skill most associated with their Fate. Whichever one they choose to develop to its potential definitely influences their path in life. Hitler could have developed his Painting skills higher and higher, but chose to (was influenced to?) concentrate on his Leadership and Political skills. We all know how that turned out. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:55:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Louis Wainwright Subject: IN> Yves: Mechanics Okay, so I have a Sereph of Yves in my game. And yup...it's just as annoying as I thought it would be. So here are a few issues I've dealt with so far and my solutions. I'd appricate other suggestions. Malakim of Yves: Lets one detect if a Disturbance is Angelic/Demonic and presumably, by elimination, Human. My solution: Just Say No. This just makes it SO difficult to build tension and surprise. Not to mention that it is just way to effective as a Demon Detector. Sereph of Yves: Okay, the true name of objects thing is fine. Also the true name of Humans. But Celestials? I've decided to make it a secret role against Role to see what they get. Mainly because in my game I have a number of Celestial masquerading as Humans (and Vice Versa!) and it'd really be a problem if the PC had a perfect Celestial Detector. I'd love to hear different solutions. Divine Destiny: For humans, I've done the following. I came up with a list of about 20 pairs like the following: Destiny: To become a classical musician whose performances at Carnegie Hall revitalize U.S. apprication for classical music. Fate: To become a materialistic studio hack recording for a second-rate muzak company...whose talent none-the-less shines through thus spawning a new rave...Muzak, the music of the 21st Century! Or slightly less impressive: Destiny: To teach a group of neighborhood kids to get along despite their backgrounds and be lifelong friends. Fate: To live a lonely, desolate life, dying by suicide, having never made a difference. Then I cut up the pairs and whenever he scans someone, I just draw one at random. However, my problem is the whole Celestial Detection issue again. I firmly belive that Divine Destiny should not work on Celestials, but how do you stop it from being a perfect detector? Yves' Library: Celestials lives are not recorded. Any thoughts would be appricated. Lou Wainwright wainwrig@ntrnet.net Lou Wainwright wainwrig@ntrnet.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 18:57 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Again >Right -- and then there's this list of what *I've* gotten... >"A student." (Malakite of War, don't ask; a Level 6!) Actually that one was more like "A worthy student to be my successor" or something like that. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:43:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Homosexuality in In Nomine At 10:24 AM -0400 9/10/97, Kim Foster wrote: >I hope this hasn't been done to death on the list before I joined. But I was >wondering what people's opinions were on the "status" ( I guess that would >be the word) of homosexuality and homosexuals in the In Nomine universe. Is >it a great sin among the angelic side, accepted, just not considered >important? This comes up as a player in my game wants to play a Soilder that >happens to be a homosexual. Hm... My opinions... Blandine, David, Gabriel, Jean, Marc, Michael: Probably don't care, might even be favorable if the relationship forwarded the Word right. (Blandine would like True Love (such stuff dreams are made of!), David likes bonding and loyalty, Gaby's probably fond of passion...) Dominic, Laurence: Consider that this is rule-breaking, and might be faintly disapproving. OTOH, it's selfishness that makes the evil, not who you sleep with. Eli: Would probably rather bi-sexuality, since otherwise the person is potentially cut off from the joys of creating a new life. But other than that, hey, be cool. Janus: Breaking status quo is good. Jordi: Some animals do this, too. It kind of limits the genetic contribution unless there's bisexuality, though. Novalis: Love is love, whereever it's found. If it's consensual, then go for it! Yves: If it doesn't lead towards Fate, then what's the problem? On the Demonic side: Andrealphus: SEX IS GOOD! MORE IS BETTER! Asmodeus: Rule-breaking is bad. Beleth: "Ah, good, the 'You have AIDS' nightmare..." Haagenti: Overindulgence is good. Kobal: "Hey, I can get some good jokes out of this..." Kronos: Does it serve Fate or Destiny? Malphas: "I can use this to divide people!" The others wouldn't care. Habbalah might care -- another reason to punish someone!! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:50:51 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: Geas Entrapment (Re: IN> Lilith's Potence) > > Her intentions on getting the Geases are evil (self-serving, > >at the very least and more likely in service to Hell). > > Are they? Suppose she Geases them to do community service? If we have > Bright Lilim who do anything at all, we have Lilim who take Geases but then > use them well, to good ends. Ah, but I was referring to Hell-Lilim. The lower levels of a Malakim's Resonance don't automatically go off when used on a Lilim but the higher ones certainly do (from the Malakite's POV). > As for fixing a car, that's dropping the value of Geases pretty low, don't > you think? What about AAA? That's one of my objections: Geases have become > tawdry, let's-see-how-many-mortals-we-can-screw-with-tonight effects. This > isn't really in keeping with the moral stature of In Nomine. That was an off-the-cuff example, but the spirit holds; Lilim do favors for people, all sorts, both big and small favors. Sometimes, there will be a task that the Lilim cannot or will not do and they would prefer someone else to do it for them. Some Lilim will use it for trivial things (evil Lilim might make people do degrading, but simple, tasks), while others will 'cherry pick' and like an art collector, only pick the best Geases. Still others will go for straight utility and might only grab them when needed. Most Lilim are _evil_. They work for Hell and its their job to do bad things to people in support of their Word or that of their Superior (Free Lilim, those in service to Lilith or bright Lilim are rare enough not to put much of a blip on this generalization). If they go for petty evil, that's their choice. Some may even enjoy the 'screw with humans' aspect of their job. > If Geases were limited, then Lilim would only deal with those of real > value. I considered some alternate Geas limits just now, but Forces Geases > seems right to me: A Geas should not be placed lightly! Lilim shouldn't be > going around gathering unlimited Geases hither and yon. If nothing else, > it's an accounting nightmare for the GM: he has to create NPCs for all > these Geasees! Maybe Forces *mortal* Geases, with unlimited celestial > Geases--Geases have to have some disruptive value on the symphony since > they're changing the actions of mortals. I'm not sure they shouldn't be > noisy, at least a little. Check my other post for ways to deal with out-of-control Lilim. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:17:39 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: IN> Falling in Strange Ways This is an idea I have been toying with in the back of my mind. It's really non-canon, and I don't know how well it works, but here it goes: There are several ways to Fall in the War. The first, and the most subtle, is to deny your own part in the Symphony. Seraphs get dissonant by going against their divine Truth, Mercurians by harming those they should help, and so forth. The second is to rebel against your part in the Symphony as a Servator. Ignoring cruelty as a servant of Gabriel, cowardice as a servant of Micheal. But there is a third type of Falling (and Redemption), too. It does not involve going against your nature, or your Superiors. It involves using your powers to further the other side. A Seraph finding, and telling, a Truth that hurts. An Elohim manipulating somebodies emotions. Or a Impudite, using it's Charm to help people. These Celestials change sides intentionally, and in doing so, keep their Choir or Band resonance. Depending on the GM, Celestials of this third category may or may not be accepted into the other side. Most likely, Hell will be more accepting than Heaven. But the image of a Shedim of God, possessing people to goad them toward good, is an interesting. Obviously, some choirs are more suited for this than others... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy ... neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." - Fortune Daemon ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #334 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.