From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Sep 23 22:37:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01538 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:37:44 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id WAA04033 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:14:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:14:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199709240314.WAA04033@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #355 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, September 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 355 In this digest: Re: IN> Janus, Valefor, and ...?! Re: Re: IN> Another weird question... Re: IN> The Marches: A review Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: IN> The Police Chief Re: IN> Loki's Stuff Re: IN> Another weird question... Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves Re: IN> Demon of Duelling Re: IN> In Nomine Canon--working off two Geases/1 by bringing things up on the list IN> Telechronia, Angel of Combat Time Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest v.1 #352 Re: IN> Loki's Stuff Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves Re: IN> Oakland Raiders Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves Re: IN> artwork Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: RE: IN> Angels in the media Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's Re: IN> just a thought IN> Moroni and the Angel of Cloves IN> Angels in the media Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves IN> Demon of Duelling IN> Demon of Soft Drinks Re: IN> just a thought Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:50:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Janus, Valefor, and ...?! At 1:11 PM -0400 9/23/97, Thomas Davidson wrote: [Ethereals as "reflections" of celestials, as seen by humans] >>So Loki is the "brainchild" of... Janus? Lucifer? > >This is all well and good... but I have one problem with it.... > >Loki is usually associated with *fire* not wind. Heck, his name is even a >bastardization of the Icelandic word _loge_, which means "fire". That's okay -- Janus is an Ofanite. A wheel of fire... >Sorry, I'll be good now. :-) Oh, why? That's no fun! >>Both conglomerated together in human imagination? >> Thor and Ares/Mars all owe their existance to Michael, Aphrodite is >> related to Andre and/or Eli, Athena is probably akin to Jean...) > >Traditionally speaking, Thor is the most difficult of the Norse gods to >classify. He's been associated with the following spheres: Thunder (his >primary sphere), storm, justice, fertility, the protector of Midgard >(earth), and so on. Thor wasn't considered a "war" god until modern >times, and that was only because he fought so many giants and trolls. >That word (Word?) was usually associated with Tyr or Odin. Hmmmm..... Yeah, well, can't trust those humans to get anything right, huh? Thomas Davidson, who spent *way* too much time reading the Norse Myths as >a child. :) Naaaahhhh. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:05:55 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: IN> Another weird question... In a message dated 9/23/97 9:41:28 AM, cryan wrote: >MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >> Who is Moroni (the patron angel of The Church of Jesus Christ of >>Latter-day Saints?) (snip) >> >> Mark (This one came up during a post-game chat...) > Well he could just be a Saint ala Night Music >or a very charismatic soldier *sigh* No... In Mormon theology, Moroni was the angel who revealed the location of the plates containing the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith. He described himself as being the Angelic form of the last of the righteous in the Americas. On second thought, maybe he was working with Malphas, not Kronos, and someone co-opted his toy to serve God.... Mark (who *is* this guy?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:22:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Marches: A review At 11:39 AM -0400 9/23/97, Starcrossed wrote: >> p. 7 is Scavella -- note the "SCAV" on the arm of the chair. (And >> Bruton's a she, BTW.) > >Whoops. Didn't catch the "SCAV," and I could have sworn the facial features >were drawn by the same artist as some of the ones you cited. Ah, well. They are very similar, aye. I was wonderng myself, till I found the signature. >> (Interestingly enough, the Beleth piece is one of the RS works I >> actually kinda like. I think it's the bulldog-lion face in the >> background.) > >It's one of the better ones, certainly, but still... *shrug* Perhaps it >just didn't come close to matching the way I visualized the character. I can see it both ways. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:32:16 -0400 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: At 11:04 -0400 9/23/97, MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >Here is a list of books that I have found useful in plotting my In Nomine >campaign: - --snip-- Good list - though I just have to suggest "Job: A Comedy of Justice" by RAH. Great book, and what a fun way to run Heaven and Hell. Of course, I'm busy squeezing GURPS IOU (which I just bought yesterday, and LOVE - good job, Archangel Beth!) and Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (I don't have the GURPS supplement *yet*, but I've read all the books) into my game. IOU is going to be the "dark side" of UVA (darkly illuminated), and I've read all kinds of whacky books getting ready for this campaign. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!:) Oh, btw, I saw mentioned in GURPS IOU that SJ Games prints one version of the Principia Discordia. I don't remember having seen that for sale on the web page - does anyone know how much it costs? Thanks, SeanMike - ---- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:23:48 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> The Police Chief Look what I've found: "Within a law enforcement agent's personal religious beliefs, christianism may be good and satanism evil. By the constitution, however, both are neutral. This is a very important concept, but one which is hard to be accepted by those same agents. They are not paid to enforce the Ten Commandments, their duty is to enforce the penal code." Kinda infernal, huh? There's more... "The fact is: the number of crimes and sexual abuses on children committed by fanatics in the name of God, Jesus or Mohammed is much bigger than those committed in the name of Satan. Many people does not like this sort of affirmation, but few of them can question it either." ~ excerpt from "The ritualistic, occult and satanic crime", by FBI's SA Lanning, published in the periodical journal 'The Police Chief', of October/89 What do you think? This sounds a lot like Nybbas' propaganda to me... "You say Hell is mean?? Hey, THEY are the one who burnt those poor innocent old ladies!!". Or maybe the FBI's MIBs realized all cults are being manipulated in a sort of way and are being rightfully making sure our policemen avoid these traps... Andre ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:51:55 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Loki's Stuff - --------------1DE10FBB3ABAEF81B338B39A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > Mariel, Angel of Cloves > Caym, Demon of Duelling > > Kwakabel, Demon of Unsafe Sex > Are we inspired or what?!?! :-) God work! Keep going... Andre - --------------1DE10FBB3ABAEF81B338B39A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote:

Mariel, Angel of Cloves
Caym, Demon of Duelling
Kwakabel, Demon of Unsafe Sex
    Are we inspired or what?!?! :-)
    God work! Keep going...

            Andre
  - --------------1DE10FBB3ABAEF81B338B39A-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:06:31 -0700 From: zingaro@peak.org Subject: Re: IN> Another weird question... > In Mormon theology, Moroni was the angel who revealed the location of the > plates containing the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith. He described himself > as being the Angelic form of the last of the righteous in the Americas. Yes -- a sticking point between IN philosophy and LDS theology, if I recall my studies correctly. Humans /can/ become angels, and in fact the Archangel Michael was theoretically the celestial form of AAdam the Primogenitor. - ------- zingaro@peak.org I think he wants to communicate. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:55:39 +0200 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves At 13:45 23/09/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" > >Mariel, Angel of Cloves > >Mariel, or Mary, as she prefers to be called, has recently applied for >and acquired the Word of Cloves. Like many angelic Words, there is a >spiritual as well as physical resonance to the Word -- in this case, >Cloves resonantes with what some humans nowadays call "Goth". Err... right (resists the urge to make a joke about the Spice Girls). We're talking about Cloves here? Little spikey things you stick into oranges and use to flavour punch? I guess Americans must have a different definition of Goth ;-) jo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:54:55 +0100 From: "cd skogsberg" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Duelling Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > Caym, Demon of Duelling - ----snip---- > [Caym is responsible for the] > recent rash of video games in the "Mortal Kombat" vein -- I guess we now know who was responsible for all DeathMatch DooM type games, huh? cd Who's never played DM DooM, honest. Or any variant. - -- "And it has come to pass that the Lord of the Woods, being ... Seven and nine, down the onyx steps ... (tri)butes to Him in the Gulf, Aza- thoth, He of Whom Thou hast taught us marv(els ..." - H. P. Lovecraft, _The Whisperer in Darkness_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:24:39 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Canon--working off two Geases/1 by bringing things up on the list On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:19:24 -0400, johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) wrote: > If it's been so long that neither the player nor GM can remember >the last corporeal vessel (or if they have never had one) just >use the standard celestial appearance. Cool. Thanks, John. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:26:45 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: IN> Telechronia, Angel of Combat Time As I was looking into the mirror, my reflection started talking without me, as James the Stone Malakim made his presence known [he was using the quicksilver backing of the mirror as his vessel]. After the nicks my razor made were bandaged, James had a few things to say, the most startling of which was his description of a Mercurian of War most Celestials rarely meet, since her work is aimed at humans, true to her Choir's calling. Since she is so seldom seen by Celestials, he was unable to quantify her powers and skills--you will just have to imagine her stats for yourself--who knows, you may be right! Telechronia, Mercurian of War Angel of Time-Effects during Combat Attunements:Mercurian of War, Ofanim of War, Divine Destiny Special Rite: Practice kendo no-mind sword strikes for an hour [+1] Chance of Invocation: 0, 1 if you are an Angel of War or Destiny, 2 if you are a human in combat with Evil _and_ call her by Name _and_ are hard pressed by a superior foe. This Angel is the one responsible for those moments when time seems to crawl and you can achieve more than is humanly possible in those moments, those moments of perfect lucidity under fire. True to the calling of her Choir, this Friend of Man never shows herself when only Celestials are involved in a combat--there must always be a mortal on the field. Her special Attunements allow her to subjectively or objectively change the flow of time for one human, two if she gets a high CD. Tampering with time is generally not well thought of, in addition to being inordinately noisy--5 x the CD in noise when the objective attunement is used. One cheeky Janusite named her powers "See the Dew" and "Do the Dew"--labels she does NOT use herself, though they seem to be catching on among Earth-assigned Angels. Combat Perception [See the Dew]: allows the human so blessed to perceive everything going on around him/her as if time had slowed, rather like the one episode of Star Trek where Kirk is sped up in metabolism and is moving so fast he seems to disappear right off the deck of the Enterprise, moving so fast he can't be seen and is capable of stepping out of the way of a phaser beam. The flow of time is *actually* undisturbed, it is only the perception of time that is altered. The CD represents the number of sensory questions the Blessed can ask the GM about his perception of what the foe is planning to do in combat this round, allowing him to change his actions on the fly as circumstances change, reacting to stuff that he couldn't possibly have guessed was going to happen. Additionally, with a CD of 6, he may choose to forego asking questions and plan his actions so well that he can effectively cancel a rolled Infernal Intervention--prior planning preventing poor performance [this is only on a CD of 6!] Timebending in Combat [Do the Dew]: this actually does bend time, allowing extra actions beyond those normally allowed in a combat round, the number of extra actions being equal to the CD rolled on this Attunement. If there are no Ofanim of War on the field of conflict, this human will go first and give a very good imitation of an OoW in action. If there is no human on the "Good" side of the conflict, Telechronia has been known to afflict Evil humans with these Attunements, but with the time-arrow reversed, so that the evil humans find their perception of events flying by so fast, that they find it hard to focus on what they were going to do; or time flys around them and the round is often over before they can do anything. Needless to say, the Demons are not pleased to see her take the field. Kronos has a standing bounty on her, as does Asmodeus, one of the rare times he has turned his gaze from the actions of his fellow demons to contemplate the Opposition. Baal and Belial want her hide for a rug, but Kobal and Vapula want her alive so they can find out how she does what she does! No surprise, Saminga wants her dead, but then, Saminga wants _everyone_ dead. Haagenti wants her smothered in ketchup, Nybbas sees her as a living slomo/fast forward camcorder that he just has to have for his network, Beleth gives other demons nightmares about her and likes her right where she is, as she is, Andrealphus can't wait to try some of his favorite games with her--the night of lust that seemed to last forever, Malphas has told folks he wants her dead, but has told others he wants her alive to study, and Valefor couldn't care less about her, he just wants to steal her abilities for his own use in The Big Heist, with no explanation of what he is planning. The AAs are happy she is on our side, though she is visited by a Dominican Triumvirate every time she actually changes the flow of time and is required to explain why it was actually necessary to tamper with this Basic Theme of the Symphony. After complaints that she had passed over humans with Major Destinies who subsequently died on the field of conflict, Yves himself taught her the Divine Destiny Attunement, so she could make better use of her abilities, ie save the Major Players when they took the field of battle. Michael allowed this, grudginly, since the MPs who fight are likely to be real buttkickers on their own--but you should see what they can do "on speed"! Besides, it kept Yves from coming to him with complaints, and anything that keeps Yves far from Me... [or so runs the rumor passed on to me by James, YMMV]. enjoy and be well, tom timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:15:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin D. Hutchins" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest v.1 #352 > > Lucifer : "You could ask me for anything, and you have requested a cup of > > coffee?" > > > What d'you think, Gryphon? Does that fall in the "so straightforward it > can't be twisted and so small that Lucifer will be too proud to deny it" That's the spin I'd put on it... YM, as ever, MV. :) - --G. - -- Benjamin D. Hutchins, cofounder and Keeper-Straight of the Continuity Eyrie Productions, Unlimited - An AnimeTech Limited Company -><- Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.eyrie.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:56:56 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Loki's Stuff > Are we inspired or what?!?! :-) > God work! Keep going... Andre I worked all those up for the In Nomine game I'm currently running. Such a thing inspires me, or else my players will have nothing to do. ;) List members will be glad to know I stole lots of their creations for the game. ;) None of my players are on the list, and they shot KK last session... -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:02:44 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves >We're talking about Cloves here? Little spikey things you stick into >oranges and use to flavour punch? I guess Americans must have a different >definition of Goth ;-) A lot of the Goths in my part of the world (which is America, yes) smoke clove cigarettes. Mariel is intended to be half-serious, tho I'm using her in one of my game, to annoy/amuse one of the people in it. I was playing around with the idea that an angelic Word often has resonances that one might not expect. In fact, in line with your post, it might be interesting to have an angel with a Word that has resonances that no human understands, that make sense to an angel. Part of the point of Mariel is that her Word had that resonance even before humans started smoking cloves. -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:42:36 -0400 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves At 20:55 +0200 9/23/97, Jo Hart wrote: >We're talking about Cloves here? Little spikey things you stick into >oranges and use to flavour punch? I guess Americans must have a different >definition of Goth ;-) Clove cigarettes are actually very popular with many goths, it seems. There popular in general in college - I gave 'em up, personally, 'cause I didn't want to pay for packs of 'em anymore, but some people I know (cough cough Dan) still smoke 'em. I can see a goth-type angel or demon smoking 'em, though nonfiltered Camels might be more popular... SeanMike - ---- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:47:28 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves In a message dated 9/23/97 1:24:38 PM, jo wrote: >>Mariel, or Mary, as she prefers to be called, has recently applied for >>and acquired the Word of Cloves. Like many angelic Words, there is a >>spiritual as well as physical resonance to the Word -- in this case, >>Cloves resonantes with what some humans nowadays call "Goth". (snip) >We're talking about Cloves here? Little spikey things you stick into >oranges and use to flavour punch? I guess Americans must have a different >definition of Goth ;-) Specifically, Cloved Cigarettes. I know way too many gothlings who smoke these things.... They smell like cloves, not like tobacco, thus, Cloves as an Angel's Word. Mark (And, to make matters worse "Cloves" are much more carcinogenic...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:18:49 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Oakland Raiders > >Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven. > > - Milton > My copy reads "Better to reign..." Thank you - consider it fixed... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com Better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven. - Milton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:18:49 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> About the four horsemen of the Apocalypse... > > That points up an interesting question: What *is* the classical > > description of Azrael? I don't have my Book of Angels or whatever handy. > > In Islamic tradition, Azrael has 70,000 feet and 4,000 wings, while his > body is provided with as many eyes and tongues as there are men in the > world. Does that sound like a Kyrio, or what? At the least, I'd be boggled if I saw that Celestial form... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Beware the advise of successful people; they do not seek company." - Dogbert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:58:05 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves > >Cloves resonantes with what some humans nowadays call "Goth". > > Err... right (resists the urge to make a joke about the Spice Girls). > > We're talking about Cloves here? Little spikey things you stick into > oranges and use to flavour punch? I guess Americans must have a different > definition of Goth ;-) Clove cigarettes. Interesting things, bad for your health, and have an exotic feel to them. The cigarette of choice if you're going to be really trendy. 'Course, I smoke them too, on occasion. They taste cool, and they crackle when you smoke 'em. But I'm just a Demonling hoping for a place with Belial, anyway... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Beware the advise of successful people; they do not seek company." - Dogbert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:39:13 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> artwork > >If you had a GIF or JPEG version, I could put it on the INC pages. > >(In Nomine Collection.) > > > I can make it into a JPG or GIF and send it back, > >if you want. > > Ah, I'm working on it > CHUCK It should be in your mailbox by now - no worries, it took two seconds. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Beware the advise of successful people; they do not seek company." - Dogbert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:44:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: > Oh, btw, I saw mentioned in GURPS IOU that SJ Games prints one version of > the Principia Discordia. I don't remember having seen that for sale on the > web page - does anyone know how much it costs? $9.95 US, but I'm not sure if it's still sold. That print run was... '94, I believe. > SeanMike Oops da Ogre, hail Eris and pass the CheezWiz mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:36:53 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: RE: IN> Angels in the media Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:24:06 -0400 (EDT) Kim Foster said: >I was curious if they're had beeen any discussion or interest in the >depication of Angels in popular media. Recently they seem to have been >popular with several movies and a television show (Which I have never seen, >people keep telling me it good.) Has anyone looked at this in In Nomine >terms? Are there any good ideas to plageri-err... creatively extropolate in >them? Well, just a few days ago I came across a comic book called Book of Angels... or something like that... Published by... drat! where'd that thing go? Published by Cavalier (sp?) Comics... Damn, where the hell did that go? Stupid imps... The issue I bought was... lacking in depth, shall we say. A bit contrived. But, the protrayal of the angel wasn't SO bad. :) - -Perry "And the Lord was very sorry that he made humankind on the earth, and it grieved his heart." - Genesis 6:6 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:59:14 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted > >Perhaps some cross fertilization is in order... > > i'd love to... and, hey! you know what they say, "fools think ali..." > umm... i mean, "great minds run in the same channel!" ;) Yeah...(strange quoting method you've got, there. > >> with Himself alone suited to command it (not surprising, actually, > >> considering that only He had the foresight to devise this plan)... > >Yep - pretty close to me. In my game, it isn't his foresight that > >makes his plan work - it's a new source of power he has discovered: > >Words. > > my thinking was more that this was the reason that God felt that only He > was suited to run things in the wake of the successful implementation of > His plan... the reason that His plan succeeded was not something i had > yet felt the need to deal with (i'm still working out the metaphysics > involved)... the concept of Words fits well into the mix... Okay, here's my whole take on it: Almost every ethereal has a Word - themselves. They thrive when people believe in them, and wither when they don't. Some of them associate themselves with various things, and thus gain power from those things - but only so long as they are associated with them. Yahweh found that you could have a Word other than yourself, and that by doing so, you bypassed the necessity for human belief. He looked around, and then took the biggest word he could see - Conflict. Not just arguements - any conflict gives him some power. Computer games, infection, even evolution gives him some power. > >But for the most part, it's not important. Very few things that > >aren't Celestial remember before Yahweh. The angels have all been > >programmed to believe that God created the universe. It would have > >been perfect, but Yahweh didn't count on one thing - anything with > >Celestial Forces has a *real* will, and can't truely be brainwashed. > > you're right... it probably won't have any direct relevance to my > game... but, i like to have a True Account in mind when doing things, to > create a framework that is consistent, even if i deliberately violate it > on occasion... ;) Oh, me too. I just don't see giving him that much power, because then beating him would be almost impossible. > and, also, the Ethereals (some of them, anyway) know parts of the > Truth... Of course. Satan knows, too, but no angels believe him (Thinking he is a Balseraph. In truth, he never was an angel...maybe.) > >> he looked around to find followers at first, but was not able to > >> find many from among the Ethereals (perhaps only one, who may have > >> once been named Asherah, and may have later become known as > >> Lilith?)... > >Okay - question here. How far are you taking the Snow Crash > >references in your game? I plan to have some fun with them (like > >the Celestial tounge resembling glossolalia) > > actually, i hadn't even considered _Snow Crash_ yet... Have you read it, though? > i'm paying more attention to _Black Easter_, _The Day After > Judgement_, _Magic, Inc._, _Paradise Lost_, _Inferno_ (Dante's > *and* Niven/Pournelle's) and the rest of the Divine Comedy, the > writings of John Dee, the poetry of Baudelaire, _The Screwtape > Letters_, the works of William Blake, and movies like _The > Prophecy_ (1995), _Wings of Desire_, and _The Omen_... Ack - you have me outranked, there. I'm going with a dash of WoD, a larger dash of Snow Crash, flavorings of Shadowrun, and touches from the vague stew that constantly bubbles at the back of my head. > good idea, and i'll have to re-read it with those ideas in mind... Especially the parts about Yahweh and the nam-shub of Enki. You see, I am running with the idea that almost all ethereals were humans at one point or another - this gives me the background to that. > >> so He turned elsewhere, and His attentions settled on a group of > >> outcast, run-down entities who lived in the neighboring Celestial > >> realm... they were known as Demons... > >Interesting! This I hadn't thought of. > > that was actually the central idea that exploded into the > others... that one came from wondering about the nature of > Falling... i have a hard time getting emotionally behind the > "removed from God's Grace" explanation... It's kinda hokey, but I like it, in a way. You see, God didn't want to increase his power the hard way, by slowly increasing his forces. So he created angels, and bent their wills to his. What he didn't realize is that angels, unlike humans before the nam-shub of Enki, automatically have free will (because they have true Celestial Forces). > >Again, interesting. My Heaven is just an extension of God's > >Celestial Form, and Hell is the Celestial corpse of Metatron. > >Technically, it's just part of the Ethereal (which fits fairly > >well with the cannon description). > > excellent ideas! i hadn't thought of that, but it works *really* > well... for instance, at the beginning of _Paradise Lost_, Hell is > described as a vile body: "...fuell'd entrails thence conceiving > Fire,/Sublim'd with mineral fury, aid the Winds,/And leave a > singed bottom all involv'd/With stench and smoke..." (Book I, > lines 234-7)... I think the Metatron idea comes from either the Bible or the Torah - I got it off the list. > yes, Milton was describing Hell in terms of gastric processes... ;) Well, it's had a little work done since then... > >No - God chained them with their vows. They *couldn't* leave. > > perfect... that works exceedingly well... and it also makes for a > wonderful mirror of the Infernal Host, chained to the Lake and Vale of > Fire... hehehe... Demons chained to Heaven... it's sick and wrong... ;) Yeah - fits, don't it? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Beware the advise of successful people; they do not seek company." - Dogbert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:27:10 +1000 From: Jason Mulligan Subject: Re: IN> Typical adventures - newbie Q's Gregory Littmann wrote: > Hi Jason! Welcome to the list. :) > You say that you are a "newbie", but I'm not sure whether you mean a > newbie to roleplaying in general, or to In Nomine in particular. If the Just a newbie to In Nomine (I should have my copy by the end of the week), I've been roleplaying since the early 80's (been playing mainly Rolemaster for the last 10 years). > former, then the adventure seeds on the net (mentioned by others) are the > way to go. If the latter, you might want to consider not giving your > players an adventure *at all*. I find that simply dropping them in a > setting is sufficient for ensuring that they make their own problems as > the angels try to "improve" things and demons try to further the cause of I was just wondering whether the game was built around actual conflicts (ie lots of actual combat) or not. I'm guessing that I'll have a perfect idea once I actually get my copy of the rules. Actually when I first heard about this game, Ithe first thing that came into my mind was the novel 'Good Omens' by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. > evil. If I *do* plan things for the P.C.s to do, I think it is worth > trying to make sure that an In Nomine adventure feels different from an > adventure in other games. So pick things that are distinctive about In > Nomine and play them up. The concern with morality is a good one in my That is a problem sometimes. Games start to merge and just feel the same with some differing trappings. > Having said all of this, a *typical* adventure usually has this form. > Demon(s) x have a plan in accordance with their superior. The P.C.s > discover clues about the plans unfolding and following them, eventually > get to see the big picture. They then track down the demon and kill it. > Careful that you don't end up playing "supers" with odd gimics! ;) Thats what I thought. Now, PC's can be demons? I'm guessing you can't very easily have a group consisting of demons and angels :) > > Greg. - -- Jason Mulligan "The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd!" - Edmund Blackadder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:19:58 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> just a thought > Sometimes it's credited to Azazel, too. ("Shall a child of fire > bow then to a child of clay?") Okay - from what I know of the Koran, jinn (spirits) are creatures of smoke, and humans of clay. How often are Angels refered to as creatures of fire? Just toying with some more ideas... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Beware the advise of successful people; they do not seek company." - Dogbert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 18:48:01 PDT From: "Chris Jackson" Subject: IN> Moroni and the Angel of Cloves A couple of responses to the last IN digest: First, according to actual Mormon theology, Moroni would have to be a saint, since the LDS church doesn't believe in Angels as a separate craetion, instead considering them the souls (and sometimes bodies) of goodly folk. Michael is identified as Adam, for instance, andf Gabriel as Noah. Of course, as you can tell, Mormon theology is a really bad source for In Nomine. So, at the risk of offending any Mormons in earshot (just myself, as far as I know) the Balseraph of Kobal theory probably works the best. On the other hand, being a Mormon living in Utah, I've been expecting this to come up and have been working on a backstory for my campaign. Here's the short version - Moroni was a low ranking servitor og Gabriel, who accepted a commision from Yves to reveal the location of the Golden Plates to Joseph Smith when Gabriel refused. (I won't quote her exactly, but it boils down to "You're not getting me with that one twice!") Meanwhile, just as the Mormons begin to really get persecuted, Dominic cracks down on Moroni, just as he had on Gabriel. Moroni survives, but only by accepting three Geases from Lilith, who intervenes on Moroni's behalf with Marc, getting him a new job. (The Mormon church is really, really financially successful.) Lilith has called in two of the Geases, one to end the Mormon practice of polygamy and I'm not sure what the other one is for. So Moroni is a bit complacent, but nervous about that other shoe . . . As for Loki's angels - really cool, especially the Angel of Cloves. I designed Ripley, the Demon of Tragic Hipness, to be an enormous poser, so I'm sure they won't get along. Consider her stolen. Christopher B. Jackson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:56:32 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Angels in the media >>>I was curious if they're had beeen any discussion or interest in the depication of Angels in popular media. Recently they seem to have been popular with several movies and a television show (Which I have never seen, people keep telling me it good.) Has anyone looked at this in In Nomine terms? Are there any good ideas to plageri-err... creatively extropolate in them?<<< Check out my "In Nomine/Touched by an Angel" writeup. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/touched.htm - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:31:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin D. Hutchins" Subject: Re: IN> Reading Material/Resources: > > Oh, btw, I saw mentioned in GURPS IOU that SJ Games prints one version of > > the Principia Discordia. I don't remember having seen that for sale on the > > web page - does anyone know how much it costs? > > $9.95 US, but I'm not sure if it's still sold. That print run was... > '94, I believe. > It's still in their online catalog - you have to select the box for "Other Books and Games". Plug: It's got a random thing by my friend Jer Johnson, aka Dru'El the Chaotic, who converted the original Loompanics Principia to electronic form way back when. :) - --G. - -- Benjamin D. Hutchins, cofounder and Keeper-Straight of the Continuity Eyrie Productions, Unlimited - An AnimeTech Limited Company -><- Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.eyrie.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:25:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin D. Hutchins" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Cloves > > We're talking about Cloves here? Little spikey things you stick into > > oranges and use to flavour punch? I guess Americans must have a different > > definition of Goth ;-) > > Clove cigarettes. Interesting things, bad for your health, and have > an exotic feel to them. The cigarette of choice if you're going to > be really trendy. Plus, they have the most noxious secondary smoke imaginable. They stink like the Pit itself, and the smoke burns the eyes and mucous membranes of bystanders like low-grade tear gas. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate clove cigarettes. ObIN: I am, however, amused by the idea of an IN character who is an actual Goth. Preferably of the Visi variety... they'd probably end up being some kind of Ethereal spirit critter. :) - --G. - -- Benjamin D. Hutchins, cofounder and Keeper-Straight of the Continuity Eyrie Productions, Unlimited - An AnimeTech Limited Company -><- Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.eyrie.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:14:32 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Demon of Duelling Note: Baal's Word is "the War", not "War". - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:14:33 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Demon of Soft Drinks Now we know who was responsible for the "Coke Brings Your Ancestors Back from the Dead" ad.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:56:23 -0400 From: speaks@mindspring.com Subject: Re: IN> just a thought At 01:41 PM 9/23/97 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 11:32 AM -0400 9/23/97, Chuck Ryan wrote: >>Emily K. Dresner wrote: >[...] >>First Saminga didn't fall he never was an angle > >[Official continuity, he "was one of the first angels, small and frail, >formed when the Symphony was still tuning up." (p. 19) Of course, if >you're not using official continuity.... ] Perhaps they literaly meant, "he was never an ANGLE". . . or am I just being obtuse? Speaks There are few situations in life that cannot be resolved promptly, and to the satisfaction of all concerned, by either suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night. -- Ernest Bramah (Kai Lung stories) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:03:11 -0400 From: speaks@mindspring.com Subject: Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted At 06:59 PM 9/23/97 +0000, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >Yahweh found that you could have a Word other than yourself, and that >by doing so, you bypassed the necessity for human belief. He looked >around, and then took the biggest word he could see - Conflict. Not >just arguements - any conflict gives him some power. Computer games, >infection, even evolution gives him some power. So you're saying God is a Shadow?? (Ala B5) How horrifying. Speaks There are few situations in life that cannot be resolved promptly, and to the satisfaction of all concerned, by either suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night. -- Ernest Bramah (Kai Lung stories) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #355 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.