From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jan 2 23:47:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA16564 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:47:58 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA19739 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:40:58 -0600 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:40:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199801030540.XAA19739@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #543 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, January 2 1998 Volume 01 : Number 543 In this digest: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks IN> Opening the Bidding Re: IN> Jewish IN IN> Cast List Re: IN> Cast List Re: IN> Balseraph Fluff Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Re: IN> Stopping Celestials with Technology Re: IN> Cast List Re: IN> Cast List Re: Re: IN> Cast List Re: Re: IN> Some Marches questions Re: Re: IN> Cast List Re: IN> Cast List Re: IN> My Thoughts on the Song of Stability. Re: IN> Benson (Alien Choirs) Re: IN> send any new stuff Re: IN> Reliever becoming Angels Re: IN> Succor Attunement (H&H give-away) Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game Re: IN> Familiars and possetion Re: IN> Grigori Re: IN> Song of Stability Re: IN> Hearts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 01:19:25 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks Alright. I'm back, and I'm going to give a few nitpicks, about what's obviously an excellent resource, the Angelic Player's Guide. Great, great stuff. It would have been great to get a little someting on how Angels chose to become Malakim, and whether or not it's still possible. One of these days, I'm going to compile a list of all the "Officially" Taken Words. Page 22: Seraphim: Names "Seraphim cannot use an alias in human society. They may consent to shortening their angelic names; Zebadiah might be persuaded to go by "Zane." But he will never say he is Zane. Instead, he will use Seraphic Evasions..."I go by Zane" or "People Call me Zane."" What's so untruthful, about saying "I am Zane"? Especially if the Seraph in question has a Role, as "Zane Davidson" for instance. I don't see any lie inherent in said Seraph saying "I am Zane Davidson." According to his Driver's Liscence, he's Zane Davidson. According to his College Diploma, he's Zane Davidson. According to all of his neighbors, he's Zane Davidson. From the viewpoint of all Humanity , there's a man living at 1211 Random Street, Anytown USA, and his name is Zane Davidson. The Seraph, in that Vessel, is that person. So the Seraph can say "I am Zane Davidson" and leave out the "and also Zebadiah, Seraph Servitor of the Archangel David, and also that Stray Cat that bit you on the kneecap last week." Now, getting around the "How old are you?" question...I suppose a Seraph could say "23 and change," ommiting that the "change" amounts to 615 more years. But now I'm digressing. Back to the Nitpicking. Page 27: Seraphim: Words The Angel of Astrology is a Seraph? Page 40: Elohim: Some Famous Elohim Khalid, the Archangel of Faith, is an Elohite. I'm very, very interested in seeing how that's going to be resolved. Not a nitpick, really. Page 72: Archangels In Person: Blandine. "...If summoned, she prefers to appear in celestial form, unless there is a need to reduce the disturbance." Wouldn't that give her Dissonance? Pages 120-127: The Angel Creation Guide: Oh yes! A 7-page reference guide to creating angel characters! The only problem I have with this is "Where are the new Archangels?" Litheroy, Christopher, Zadkiel, they never get to give comments in extended writeups of other Archangels, and their attunements don't show up here, either. Well, that's it. I'm done Nitpicking. It's a great book, Really. The History part finally clarifies "Which came first, Humanity or the Fall?" anwers a lot of the questions on various Choir attunements, adds rules for explosives and car chases, and has all sorts of segues into the upcoming "Fall of the Malakim." and "The Last Trump" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:29:19 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Opening the Bidding Was ruminating on how DPs organise bidding for the newly fallen. jo - --- "Look at them. Miserable gutbags, sagging flaps of skin padded out by viscous fluids and gristle. Churning primitive internals endlessly spewing fetid piles of shit from all orifices." The pure vehemence in his tone silenced the other demons, even though the back of Hobson's cloud-grey suit was turned towards them as he looked down through the window at the street. "Watch them crawl across their choked up pointless little incessant cities like insects on a dunghill, feverishly leaping astride each other to breed more and more stinking gutbags." His voice dropped to a dangerous whisper as he warmed to his topic, "Hell's fire, I despise them." Sinclair nudged his glasses further up his nose and contrived to look comfortable even in the bare wood-and-metal seating arrangements, stretching out his vessel's long legs to briefly admire the soft Italian leather of his new loafers as Hobs wandered off at the mouth on another rant. On a vague afterthought, he directed a crooked smile to his companion and mouthed the words 'He doesn't like mortals much' to her. Ditra's eyes narrowed and her gaze flickered between the two other demons. She hugged herself more tightly and focussed on the floor again. She was the only demon in the room who was in celestial form, another of Hobson's little 'security checks'. While he was speaking, she had pressed herself further into the back of her own chair, crushing long membraneous wings against the splintering wood. Sinclair grinned like the reptile he was and made a mental note to ask her later if she had been so dishevelled when she was an angel or whether that was a very recent development. "Does that amuse you?" Hobson turned slowly and directed an unwavering stare at the Impudite. Ditra flinched visibly, but her voice was steady. "I.. no, not at all, sir. I was just wondering .. how many of the host would agree with you, if they were only permitted to express the view so graphically." Sinclair judged this as a reasonable rescue of the situation. He interjected mildly, "That's true enough, hypocrisy does run rife on the other side," and was rewarded by briefly gaining the entirety of Hobson's attention. Hobs really was the archetypal demon-in-grey, showing barely a scrap of flesh from the toes of his innocuous shoes to the tips of kid-gloved fingers, up to the high wing collar. Face as impassive as a tax return. No style. He considered it typical of the other demon to have as little contact with the corporeal world he was forced to inhabit as was celestially possible. "Mortals have their uses, though," Sinclair continued in his pleasant tenor. "After all, if they weren't around then how would we keep score?" Hobson sniffed non-commitally and his fingers twitched at the windows as he seated himself behind the desk. The blinds chattered shut in the still air. The room was plunged into a dim gloom which turned the demons into dark silhouettes and the silence grew to deafening proportions before Hobson changed the subject abruptly, pinning Ditra with another hard stare. "Until you are accepted into service by a Prince of Hell, you are in a somewhat susceptible position. I presume my colleague has explained this to you already...?" Sinclair nodded slightly to the implied question. "Indeed, sir. He's been.. most helpful, and I believe that is why I am here. I understand there is a certain amount of bidding?" Ditra subsided into silence under the weight of Hobson's undivided attention and leaned forwards in a pose which she hoped indicated enthusiasm and interest. It was quite true that without Sinclair's cheerful persuasion she would have taken more time before throwing herself metaphorically at Hell's feet. She didn't feel any special urge to enslave herself, but as he'd pointed out, it made good sense. "Its going to happen anyway," he had said, "So it will likely fall better for you if you can throw your heart and soul into it. I'm here to help, and we do want you to fit in somewhere you can feel comfortable. It makes sense after all." And when he'd said it, everything had made perfect sense. "Yes," she'd said gratefully, "I can see that. You said you served the war though, does that mean you're here to arrange for me to join your ranks, or that your superior has some interest?" Sinclair had shrugged elegantly, "Not necessarily. Its very much in our interests that new recruits be assimilated quickly. We're responsible for training soldiers as well. You're quite right to ask what my personal interest is though -- remember now that you are amongst people who can be totally honest about their intentions. Never trust anyone unless you know that they have a selfish reason for their actions." Ditra fretted at the memory and watched the man behind the desk. She was wondering what his angle was. "Quite." Hobson leaned back with a comfortable creak and steepled his fingers. "The bidding process has already commenced and it is a function of the game to administer it. When we are finished here you will receive some forms to fill in and there will likely be a few interviews with interested parties." He paused to watch her shift her weight. "Oh yes," he added with a cold imitation of encouragement, "There are interested parties." The Impudite nodded and resisted the urge to ask. Don't give him the pleasure. "I'd been under the impression this was part of the war," she said, with a sideways glance to Sinclair, "Or.. well I suppose he is a Balseraph so..." She stopped short, sensing herself to be on the brink of the worst faux pas since the treaty of Versailles. There was a long moment of silence. Sinclair stretched indolently and recrossed his legs at the ankle. A hand tightened almost imperceptibly on the arm of his chair. Hobson glanced to him and smiled thinly, tasting the suppressed flare of fury. "Sorry," Ditra whispered. "I think that came out wrong." "I think perhaps it did," the Balseraph answered gently, almost too sympathetically. "You've been indoctrinated by experts. The greatest lie that heaven tells is that there is only one version of the truth and that only a seraph can give it to you. We believe that everyone should be free to determine their own truths, because everything that has the potential to be true .. is true in a sense. We all have the power to recreate the truth in our own image." The man behind the desk nodded solemnly in agreement and Ditra found herself nodding as well, and rerunning the comment again and again through her mind. "I'd never thought of it like that but.. yes. Thank you." She felt unaccountably as through she'd learned something crucially important. This time Hobson glanced to the silent clock on the far wall before cutting in. "Sinclair does serve Prince Baal, these duties are shared between those of us who are present and available. He will be accompanying you, and I suggest you take advantage of his presence to apply yourself to study of the demonic tongue." Sinclair nodded across to Ditra and his right eyelid flickered in a wink. "I know it can be confusing," he confided. "I've been where you are now." "Really?" asked Hobson with no more than polite interest. These distractions were beginning to irritate him. "I was once in service to Uriel. It was a while ago." There was another long, awkward pause. Hobson cleared his throat and eyed the impudite again. "Unless you have any more questions, we can conclude for now." She shook her head silently. No questions. ***** After the other demons had left the room Hobson considered what they had said, and what they hadn't said. Then he sent a brief fax. Then he called a secretary in to check his appointment book. ***** Ditra let out a breath as she reassumed corporeal form when the office door closed behind them. "This is probably a stupid question but are your superiors as intimidating as him," she nodded towards the door. Sinclair grinned reassuringly at her, "Not always," he explained. "They don't generally have an inferiority complex that drives them to project low-level terror at everyone in the immediate vicinity." Ditra paused, "I.. " Then she sighed and returned a self-mocking smile. "I see. And here I was thinking he seemed so restrained for a Habbalah." "Yes," said the balseraph, "He is." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:50:12 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: IN> Jewish IN that'd be pretty cool. i don't know that much about the original jewish angels etc so it'd certainly be interesting i was thinking of writing a kult-style background up for IN where god was an evil Demiurge; angels would basically be fascists whereas demons would be freed om fighters! liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:03:33 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: IN> Cast List Here's a copy of my cast list for Superiors. Each role is followed by the actor/actress cast for the part, as well as a brief note showing the role or roles which most led to that actor's inclusion. *THE DIVINE* Blandine: Mary Steenburgen (Jessie Caldwell in "Powder") David: Ving Rhames (Marsellus Wallace in "Pulp Fiction" & Duane Stevenson in "Dave") Dominic: Lance Henriksen (Frank Black in TV's "Millenium") Eli: Tom Petty (Bridge City Mayor in "The Postman") Gabriel: Christopher Walken (Gabriel in "The Prophecy") Who would argue that this wasn't THE performance that set Gabriel as a once great angel of fire driven mad? For those who feel that Gabriel should be played by a woman, I give you Demi Moore. Cold exterior, eyes which easily convey the wrath of God itself... Janus: David Bowie (Jareth in "Labyrinth") Jean: Jeff Goldblum (David Levinson in "Independence Day") Jordi: Sean Connery (Dr. Robert Campbell in "Medicine Man") I'm hoping he'll get the same hairstylist who prepared him for his long-haired scenes in "The Rock" Lawrence: Kyle MacLachlan (Paul Atreides in "Dune") Marc: Wallace Shawn (Vizzini in "The Princess Bride") Michael: Mel Gibson (William Wallace in "Braveheart") Charismatic, noble, and a bloody mess on a battlefield when he's got an axe in his hands. Novalis: Andie MacDowell (Bronte in "Green Card") Yves: Anthony Hopkins (C.S. Lewis in "Shadowlands") *INFERNAL* Andrealphus: Jaye Davidson (Ra in "Stargate") Asmodeus: Alan Rickman (Hans Gruber in "Die Hard") Baal: Al Pacino (Michael Corleone in "The Godfather" trilogy) Beleth: Gina Davis (Charlie Baltimore in "The Long Kiss Goodnight") Belial: Tommy Lee Jones (Ryan Gaerity in "Blown Away", Two-Face in "Batman Forever") Haagenti: Stan Winston, sort of. (Stan designed the dinosaurs in the "Jurassic Park" films, as well as the title characters from "Predator" and "Aliens".) Kobal: John Malkovich (Cyrus 'the virus' Grissom in "Con Air") Kronos: Jack Nicholson (you want credits? It's JACK NICHOLSON!) Lilith: Sharon Stone (Catherine Tramell in "Basic Instinct") Malphas: Gary Oldman (Ivan Korshunov in "Air Force One") Nybbas: Ben Kingsley (Cosmo in "Sneakers") Though Jonathan Price has shown he's not all bad at playing a media baron. Saminga: Steve Buscemi (Garland 'the Marietta Mangler' Greene in "Con Air") Valifor: Michael Wincott (Top Dollar in "The Crow", Elgyn in "Alien Resurrection") Vapula: Dennis Hopper (Howard Payne in "Speed") And who knows, maybe a game set in the past would even have a Sean Connery cameo as Uriel. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:27:45 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Cast List Does this seem stupid? A dual role as Jordi/Uriel? Me too. When I orginally wrote this, I replaced Sean Connery in the role of: Jordi: Jason Scott Lee (Mowgli in "The Jungle Book", Bruce Lee in "Dragon, the Bruce Lee Story".) He's got the physique, the ESL accent, and the wild animalistic behaviors that Jordi would want if he even consented to wear a human form. I sent out the unedited draft by mistake. Sorry. - ---Querent wrote: > > Jordi: Sean Connery (Dr. Robert Campbell in "Medicine Man") I'm > hoping he'll get the same hairstylist who prepared him for his > long-haired scenes in "The Rock" > > And who knows, maybe a game set in the past would even have a Sean > Connery cameo as Uriel. > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > == --Querent USELESS FACT: On a Canadian two dollar bill, the flag flying over the Parliament Building is an American flag. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:59:54 EST From: T Bretz Subject: Re: IN> Balseraph Fluff In a message dated 97-12-23 12:44:11 EST, you write: << No, they don't. Ummm. . . the Coke. . . disappeared through a dimensional nexus and is currently living in some corner of some nameless dimension where it has married a Pepsi and had 2 children: RC is a disappointment, never amounting to very much; but the real pride of the family is Pepper, who just got a PhD in creative chemistry. (enough BS?) :-) >> You know, the more I read this thread, the more convinced I am that the BBC character Edmund Blackadder is the perfect Balseraph. To (semi) quote from the second season: "Edmund! I clearly heard that man say 'Great Booze-up Eddie!'. Can you explain that?" (E. Blackadder goes through a visible series of mental contortions lasting some 30 seconds) "Y..................esss. You see, my friend is a missionary to the Dark Continent. ...........On his last journey, he met a chief called Great Boo. The chief was affected by sleeping sickness, ......but he must have just recovered, for....as you've heard: Great Boo's up." I never really understood Balseraphs until I started looking at them like this. theron houston ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:59:58 EST From: T Bretz Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... In a message dated 97-12-28 06:24:42 EST, you write: << > What's wrong with cats??? They're prideful. And they kill other things. Remember, the new, happy Jordi loves only god's *good* creatures - cows, pigs, and other animals that we lovingly slaughter, as well as canaries and turtles, which make good pets. >> Cats are also vilified (since at least the middle ages) because (IIRC) cats are not mentioned in the Bible. Anywhere. Lions, sure, but ordinary house cats aren't. That seems to be the reason they're associated with witchcraft in the Christian tradition. theron houston ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 20:44:48 -0500 From: David Wood Subject: Re: IN> Stopping Celestials with Technology Quoth "Neel Krishnaswami" on Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:24:30 EST... >David wrote: >: >: "Yes, my message: that the United States Government is establishing a >: final solution to the problem of Celestial interference on our territory, >: that we have a means of protecting ourselves, and that we are in the >: process of instituting a zero tolerance policy." >You know, what this reminds me of is good old fashioned goetic magic, with >its aim of controlling demons and angels with complex rituals and spells. >This is just the same thing, dressed up with mathematics and blinkenlights. There will be slight differences across the board. For instance, how many goetic catalogs of angelic and demonic names have a seek time of .83 seconds? >Two things come to mind, after making this observation. The less helpful >one is that "classically" anti-celestial tech is impossible, since spiritual >laws supersede physical laws in much the same way that physical laws >supersede human laws. A good observation, but less helpful indeed. "If we could create anti-celestial technology, we could safeguard the government from tampering by celestial beings, if there were any celestial beings." Or in its short form, "If we had any cake, we could have some cake and ice cream, if we had any ice cream." In Nomine itself is a what-if that we're using as a given for purposes of worldbuilding and extrapolating events. Any story based on it is, after all, just adding more what-ifs to the original premise. > Only faith in God can stop a demonic possession; >there are no anti-Shedim pills, not even in principle. Not that I recall faith in God stopping that sort of thing anyway. That is, I don't remember there being any attribute, skill, or resource, religious or otherwise, beside high Will, that would help to resist Shedite takeover. >But that's not really all that helpful, so let's assume it's possible and see >what theology has to say. Agreed, let's. > Now we get the observation that the people who >have instituted this policy are damned, since they have set their wills in >opposition to God's.[*] >[*] I am, of course, assuming here that the angels are obeying God's >commands. That's one unclear point: God's commands? Most angels get their orders from the Archangels, and sometimes the Archangels lament that The Boss doesn't talk to them more often. One of God's orders was for angels to go down and protect humanity against the demons. Now Trochas has used technology to do just that. In a way, he's carrying out God's orders in a way that > Lucifer is probably laughing his little red butt off >at poor Trochas, who has fallen into Hell's clutches in his zeal to defeat >it. Is he? Imagine if you will this quandary: Lucifer, who had no faith in God's plan, led a rebellion which ultimately lost. Since then, he has constantly worked against it, commissioning agents to lead Humanity down the wrong path. Now his agents can't get in there. Humans have a tradition of doing the wrong thing, but they also have a tradition of doing the right thing too. It could go either way. They could screw things up further (good for Hell), or they might see where they're headed and change course (bad for Hell). Lucifer might be chuckling because no angels can get in there and set things right, but he'll be even more furious that he can't get his own agents in there either. After all, he had no faith in God Himself. How much more faith could he possibly have in Humanity, either to do right OR wrong? >Your story does do a very good job of showing how a sorcerer can lose his >soul in the hereafter through an excessive focus on this world, in a way >a modern reader can understand. I sincerely HOPE it wasn't that clear-cut! I wanted to highlight a paradox here. Cmdr. Trochas is an eerie figure edging closer to a Fate of some sort, no question about it. (Well, maybe some questions. But those will show up later.) But is it because he's damned for denying territory to the angels, is he blessed for denying territory to the demons, or is he doomed to bitter, crushing defeat for attempting an impossible task: denying territory to both? Or do even greater problems await him if he actually succeeds? There's one other point that nobody's commented on yet, and I might as well bring it up so people can start worrying... During the course of the story, they stripped a Force from a demon. What did they do with that Force? What *could* they do with it? Again, pleasant dreams, kiddies... > Send it to Beth for the INC, please. I'm sure she has it already -- in which case, she's welcome to archive it. And I may post follow-ups, too. I think I have the foundations of an entire story thread. Nothing to parallel Dark Victory, but I think I'm onto something here... >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@alum.mit.edu - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ Demon of Obfuscation in service to Malphas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:45:34 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: Re: IN> Cast List On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Querent wrote: > *THE DIVINE* > > Dominic: Lance Henriksen (Frank Black in TV's "Millenium") "Angel? I prefer the term 'celestial being', actually." > Jean: Jeff Goldblum (David Levinson in "Independence Day") "The guys call me 'The New Jersey Kid'." "No we don't." > Lawrence: Kyle MacLachlan (Paul Atreides in "Dune") "Mm....DAMN good coffee. And hot!" > Michael: Mel Gibson (William Wallace in "Braveheart") Charismatic, > noble, and a bloody mess on a battlefield when he's got an axe in his > hands. "THEY said I was guilty of pride." "They? Who's they?" "Uh, I don't know, if I knew I'd say, they wouldn't be THEY then." (twitch twitch) > Novalis: Andie MacDowell (Bronte in "Green Card") "Slut." (OK, that one is a bit obscure just from that quote. It's '4 weddings and a funeral') > Yves: Anthony Hopkins (C.S. Lewis in "Shadowlands") "I'm seeing an old friend for dinner." > *INFERNAL* > > Asmodeus: Alan Rickman (Hans Gruber in "Die Hard") "You cannot contact your lawyer or anyone else on the outside. You must put your trust in me." > Belial: Tommy Lee Jones (Ryan Gaerity in "Blown Away", Two-Face in > "Batman Forever") "I want you to search every outhouse, doghouse and firehouse within five miles..." > Kronos: Jack Nicholson (you want credits? It's JACK NICHOLSON!) "You have to ask me -nicely-." > Saminga: Steve Buscemi (Garland 'the Marietta Mangler' Greene in "Con > Air") "He was funny-looking." "Funny-looking...how?" "I dunno. Just funny-lookin'." > Vapula: Dennis Hopper (Howard Payne in "Speed") "They say they're gonna send men to the moon. Are they gonna land on, on one-half? One-fourth? No! No. You gotta have one, two, three man." Jason ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:45:07 -0600 From: jnunn@visi.com (J. Nunn) Subject: Re: IN> Cast List Awwww...why not Lucy Lawless for Gabriel? - -Jessica ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:19:33 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: Re: IN> Cast List > Awwww...why not Lucy Lawless for Gabriel? lucy lawless as gabrielle? that would screw my mind up too much... :) still, it'd free up ol' chris walken to play dominic "i haven't executed anyone since 1875" that'd put the fear of god into 'em! liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:50:28 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: Re: IN> Some Marches questions >>Since sorcerors aren't Soldiers, can they learn non-Corporeal >>Songs? >There's actually a strong argument that they can't >even learn _Corporeal_ Songs! Unless I misread the Sorcerer >section, they get their sorcerous abilities, period. they've got six forces and the ability to control their essence, in game terms they're just a variant type of soldier (like undead). so they should be able to learn songs. it says they learn songs off demons in exchange for doing evil stuff, in effect making them "free-lancers" of hell >>If not, what advantage is there to being a sorceror? It seems >>that they have a lot less going for them than most Soldiers of Hell. >Well... not a whole lot. Sorcerers are theoretically >independent and that can mean a whole lot in a war that is as >finely balanced as in the In Nomine universe. I'd go whole heartedly with this. sure sorcerors don't get many more powers than ordinary soldiers, but so what? if you want a power-laden character then play a celestial, not a mortal! it's made clear that soldiers of hell are the cannon fodder/punching bags/bad jokes of the diabolical army. they get trodden on so much they probably start hanging "WELCOME" mats round their necks. sorcerors on the other hand get to state their terms more. sure they still usually end up as pawns for demons but at least they can do it with style liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:12:40 -0600 From: jnunn@visi.com (J. Nunn) Subject: Re: Re: IN> Cast List >> Awwww...why not Lucy Lawless for Gabriel? > >lucy lawless as gabrielle? that would screw my mind up too much... :) > > Well, if you use Gabrielle as Novalis or something...*wince* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 13:36:01 +0900 From: Dave Conrad Subject: Re: IN> Cast List Querent wrote: > > Here's a copy of my cast list for Superiors. Each role is followed by > the actor/actress cast for the part, as well as a brief note showing > the role or roles which most led to that actor's inclusion. > Gabriel: Christopher Walken (Gabriel in "The Prophecy") Who would > argue that this wasn't THE performance that set Gabriel as a once > great angel of fire driven mad? For those who feel that Gabriel > should be played by a woman, I give you Demi Moore. Cold exterior, > eyes which easily convey the wrath of God itself... I think that too many people would be expecting the same 'Fallen Gabriel' role. Nick Cage doing a more insane role might be cool. > Janus: David Bowie (Jareth in "Labyrinth") I like Bill Paxton here. > Marc: Wallace Shawn (Vizzini in "The Princess Bride") Marc ought to look and sound a lot smoother. He's over-exposed, but John Travolta might be interesting. > Baal: Al Pacino (Michael Corleone in "The Godfather" trilogy) I always though Michael Biehn (Many James Cameron flicks). > Haagenti: Stan Winston, sort of. (Stan designed the dinosaurs in the > "Jurassic Park" films, as well as the title characters from "Predator" > and "Aliens".) Aside from the fact that he's dead. Chris Farley would make an interesting Haagenti. In interviews, a lot of his friends said that his whole life was a battle with consumption - of food, alcohol, drugs, etc. Maybe not Haagenti, ubt definitely a victim. > Nybbas: Ben Kingsley (Cosmo in "Sneakers") Though Jonathan Price has > shown he's not all bad at playing a media baron. Nybbas really ought to be James Woods. Videodrome is definitely a movie to highlight this. I haven't seen Hercules yet, but I hear he does a good job of it there, and the whole time I watched Contact, I couldn't help thinking that James Woods was Nybbas. Besides, he even looks a ot like the picture of Nybbas in the book. > Valifor: Michael Wincott (Top Dollar in "The Crow", Elgyn in "Alien > Resurrection") Too serious. Valefor always seemed more swashbuckly to me. Depending on how he does in Zorro, Antonio Banderas maybe. Or it might be entertaining to have Bill Paxton as Janus and Valefor. - -- Dave C. iN*T*x "To break the rules is to break the spell" - C. Lasch ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:07:15 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: IN> My Thoughts on the Song of Stability. to give my two cents... it's a cool idea as a power to turn up in the game, ie as a rare (and feared) song, the powers of a relic, whatever. but i don't like the idea of it as some sort of innate ability of the symphony to fight change. this smacks too much of sleepers out of mage (no, i'm not accusing you of using ideas from mage, i just think it's similar). i like the mage setting, but i wouldn't want to start mixing it with IN. the whole subjective-universe thing sort of clashes with IN's heaven & hell. i don't really consider disturbance as being that disturbing. sure if someone uses essence in the corporeal world other celestials might be able to hear it. so what? i've always assumed "disturbance" is more a case of one of the trumpets at the back on the orchestra doing a quick jazz riff then carrying on as usual, rather than the symphony being put under any sort of unnatural strain. if humans have such a powerful link to the symphony, shouldn't they perceive disturbance even more strongly than celestials do? also i think angels are more linked to the symphony than humans are. the angels' natural home is heaven, where the symphony is much clearer (and so essence doesn't cause disturbance). they only have trouble when working in the corporeal realm because it's not "designed" for them. also if the symphony had such powerful anti-disturbance powers why wouldn't it prevent demons from entering the corporeal world? surely with their discordant mini-anti-pseudo-(groucho?)-symphonies they'd set off alarms jst a few thoughts liam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:20:54 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: IN> Benson (Alien Choirs) cool :) liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:08:42 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> send any new stuff At 3:33 AM -0500 12/24/97, Anavrin169 wrote: >i love this game i would enjoy if you could send me any thing Advertising ahead... Try the In Nomine Collection, a set of unofficial pages (kindly hosted by SJG themselves) with a whole *bunch* of new stuff... http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles ought to get you there, if I haven't forgotten everything over vacation... [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:55:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Reliever becoming Angels At 9:08 PM -0500 12/30/97, Brandon Quina wrote: >What if human souls who ascend to heaven, and want to help in the >war, can be sent back to earth as 'Relievers' and eventually earn >their Angel status. It's definitely non-canon. Saints, in _Night Music_, are the most celestially oriented that human souls get, in canon. [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:00:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Succor Attunement (H&H give-away) At 4:31 PM -0500 12/29/97, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >QUESTION!! I HAVE A QUESTION!!! > >Whoops, sorry... musta had caplock on. :) > >In H&H, Angels of Protection may purchase an attunement called SUCCOR by >which they may relieve a target of all pain for a number of hours equal to >the check digit. No sweat, except, what do they roll against? Doesn't >say. Will, I assume? Or do you just roll the Check Die? Just the blipping check die. *sigh* I *am* going to have to stomp on that particular mechanic/phrasing... (H&H was before my time.) At least I know to look for it, though. [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:35:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game At 2:42 PM +0000 12/30/97, Sam Kington wrote: >John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >[...] > (As for Kyrios of Jean, well, when was one of *them* last yanked >up to Heaven for not having a host?) Resonance failure with a 6 CD. (Boy, but was our KoJ unhappy for a while!) >BTW, I thought an Outcast angel was yanked back to Limbo if their vessel >was destroyed? Kyrios have no vessels... One variant you can do is that they get sucked into Limbo if they don't find another host -- and, most of them having no way to generate a vessel, never get out again. [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:18:18 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Familiars and possetion At 1:15 AM -0600 1/2/98, Shadowcat wrote: > If a Familiar has the Bound Discord, could another Celestial > Possess that Familiar? Sure. > Would you use the Level of Bound as a bonus to the Familiar's > Willpower to avoid being Possessed? Hm! GM call. I, personally, like it, though. > What would happen to a Bound Celestial that was somehow forced > out of their "binding?" Marches, same as everyone else, I'd say. Definitely snap back to the Bound-in vessel, though, no matter *where* it had gotten off to. > Any thoughts on this? Has anyone seen anything official on these > points? I don't think I've seen anything official... [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:03:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Grigori At 9:45 AM -0500 12/31/97, Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: >>Once, long ago, someone posted a write-up on the Grigori and the Nephallim. >> I can't remember who did them now. It *was* a long time ago. I hope Beth >>archied them... > >That would be me, yes. I had as much difficulty finding the link as you >did. ;) Unfortunately, being an angel, I don't have enough ego to petition >Archangel Beth for a more prominent link... If you have a suggestion..... I can always include the mention of "new Choirs/etc" in the Rogues' Gallary listing, though. Remind me, after I've recovered from vacation. (And killed all this *&^%$#@^% spam that I keep getting 'cause of all my INC links that the *&^%*%& spammers' webcrawlers get!) [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:26:06 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Song of Stability At 1:11 AM -0500 12/30/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Well, given that unbalancing (in your case) has meant "changing to >balance of power in the game", didn't you just reply with what I'd >asked you not to?<<< > >No. Even if I didn't object to the basic premise, I'd find your version too >powerful. A human who can walk around and dampen *any* Song or Essence >expenditure (now he doesn't even need to win a Contest, he gets some effect >as long as he succeeds in a straight roll) is much too powerful. He's a >walking "Low Mana Zone". Actually, he's an IOU Mundane. (Mundanity is a very cheap advantage, in GURPS IOU... 10-15 points for the version that seems to be here...) They roll dice, doing a "Reality Check." If the roll fails, the Mundane is affected; if it succeeds, the weird power flubs interestingly. Buy GURPS Illuminati University for more details... O;> (Did I mention that I'm a co-author of it?) [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:16:11 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hearts At 1:34 AM -0500 1/1/98, eswhanu@juno.com wrote: >Ok, here's a question: it says that an angel's Heart can't leave Heaven. >But it says that Eli's servitors hide their Hearts where they can. In the celestial realm. Urm. In Heaven. (Well, Eli's weird enough, you might be able to hide your Heart in Shal-Mari, if you were really crazy.) > There >is even a reference in Revelations II to one of Eli's servitors having >her Heart with here on Earth, Yes, and there's errata on that reference. The Menumite's Heart is in Blandine's Tower, where it's *supposed* to be. > So which is the case: can a Heart leave Heaven, or not? Generally, a Heart cannot. The Hearts in the Marches were created there, and both Beleth and Blandine maintain them that way. I think this stuff is in the FAQ... [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #543 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.