From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Jan 5 13:16:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01670 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:16:57 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA00382 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:49:21 -0600 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:49:21 -0600 Message-Id: <199801051849.MAA00382@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #547 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, January 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 547 In this digest: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime IN> Seraphim and Roles IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: IN> Remnants Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Re: IN> Jewish IN Re: IN> Benson (Alien Choirs) Re: IN> Jewish IN Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Re: IN> Seraphs and roles Re: IN> Cast List Re: IN> Headaches Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime Re: IN> Cast List Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? Re: IN> RE: Querent's cast list Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime Re: IN> RE: Querent's cast list Re: IN> My Thoughts on the Song of Stability. Re: IN> RE: Querent's cast list Re: IN> My Thoughts on the Song of Stability. Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:08:54 EST From: T Bretz Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... In a message dated 98-01-03 18:32:12 EST, you write: << >>AFAIK, neither are zebras, iguanas, or parakeets... or dinosaurs... :) >> Oh, you ought to hear my fundamentalist mother-in-law go off about dinosaurs. She's convinced that their just part of some big paleontological conspiracy to refute creationism. To her, they are the tools of the devil. We don't talk about religion with my wife's family... theron houston ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:08:45 EST From: T Bretz Subject: Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks In a message dated 98-01-02 04:57:51 EST, you write: << Page 22: Seraphim: Names "Seraphim cannot use an alias in human society. They may consent to shortening their angelic names; Zebadiah might be persuaded to go by "Zane." But he will never say he is Zane. Instead, he will use Seraphic Evasions..."I go by Zane" or "People Call me Zane."" What's so untruthful, about saying "I am Zane"? Especially if the Seraph in question has a Role, as "Zane Davidson" for instance. I don't see any lie inherent in said Seraph saying "I am Zane Davidson." According to his Driver's Liscence, he's Zane Davidson. According to his College Diploma, he's Zane Davidson. According to all of his neighbors, he's Zane Davidson. From the viewpoint of all Humanity , there's a man living at 1211 Random Street, Anytown USA, and his name is Zane Davidson. The Seraph, in that Vessel, is that person. So the Seraph can say "I am Zane Davidson" and leave out the "and also Zebadiah, Seraph Servitor of the Archangel David, and also that Stray Cat that bit you on the kneecap last week." >> Yeesh... I hadn't picked up the APG yet, so I didn't know about this. Sure messes up my NPC Dordiel, angel of Firefighers, a Seraphim servant of Dommie - he helps keep tabs on Gabriel when he's not nailing Belial's hired help. He's set up with an established role as a local arson investigator. Seems to me a role should basically ameliorate any "lie" involved. theron houston ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:46:41 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime > > > ["In space, constant thrust equals constant velocity." -another law > > > of anime that amuses me.] > > > > Hadn't noticed that one, but then I have given up on almost any space > > based entertainment, as they invariably get some stuff wrong (if it > > isn't buring, it's humming or explosively decompressing). > > Oh well. I don't mind sound effects, per se, since I nearly fell > asleep during a certain scene in 2001. I meant to type burning. Nothing burns in space, and explosive decompression doesn't work that way, and...okay, I'll stop. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:25:41 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Seraphim and Roles >>>What about "You can call me Zane." or "I go by Zane." Or even "Its not my real name, but I didnt like my given name. Im Zane, now."<<< All of those would be truthful (assuming he really *didn't* like his given name), so would be fine. >>>If a demon asked a Seraph 'Are you an angel?' he would have to tell them that he was, or suffer dissonance.. Right?? Or find some way around the question. Or just not talk.<<< Possible Seraphic responses: "What a silly question!" "Yes, I'm an angel and I hear grey aliens are abducting Nebraska corn-farmers. Have you been taking your medication?" "Actually, I'm a Republican*, but you can call me an angel if you want." "What makes you think I'm an angel?" "Are you?" * (This only works if the angel has joined the Republican party as part of his Role, but you can think of other variations, I'm sure.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:25:39 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Seraphim and Roles >>>I have to disagree here. As I see it, if a seraph can mislead but not lie, than she could tell a person she was 23 and some change, because literally she is. Its the same as taking a job.<<< No, because the latter is one aspect of the truth, and the one that applies to the actual question "What's your job?" A Seraph can only mislead to a limited extent before it becomes *lying*, and deliberately using words with a personal definition one has rationalized in one's own mind, *knowing* that everyone else will understand you to be using the conventional definition, is *exactly* the sort of things Balseraphs do. ..... Balseraph of Dark Humor points at a beaker of clear liquid in a chemistry lab and tells a gullible friend "Stick your finger in there, I dare you!" "Is it safe?" asks the friend. "Absolutely." Friend sticks his finger into the beaker, screams, and pulls it out with severe burns from the acid. Other students laugh at his stupidity, and the Balseraph grins as he gains a point of Essence. "What I meant was, the acid is perfectly safe. And you would be too, if you were more careful." His words meant something in his own mind that he knew would differ radically from what they'd mean to everyone else. The Balseraph, being a Balseraph, can rationalize that he still didn't lie. But a Seraph could not pull that without incurring dissonance. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:14:38 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Remnants >At 3:46 PM -0600 12/29/97, Wells Family Fun wrote: >>i'm fairly certain that this question is answered in the book but i've >>had trouble finding it... >> >> Remnants cannot generate essence at sunup/sundown, can they? > >It does not say, that I can find. They can obviously generate >Essence via Rites, though, so the *ability* is not lost. I'm kind; >as a GM, I'd let them get their nightly/daily ration. As LE? I'm >going to hold off right now, but the question is tucked away in my >disorganized little mind... Cool. Here's another one: Remnants are not affected by celestial perceptions. I assume this means that an Angel's ability to peer into a person's soul does not function on Remnants (e.g. Angelic Resonances of Perception have no affect, such as the Cherub's and the Mercurian). But what about the Demonic Resonances? I assume the Lilim's would not function. What about the others'? Also, with no Will characteristic, does this mean that it would be an automatic success for the Demonic Resonance, or an automatic failure, since there's no Soul/Will to twist. I'm guessing that the Djinn resonance doesn't work on Remnants, nor does the Lilims', since there's no Soul in there to sense. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare which makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:20:58 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... > or dinosaurs... :) >> > > Oh, you ought to hear my fundamentalist mother-in-law go off about dinosaurs. > She's convinced that their just part of some big paleontological conspiracy to > refute creationism. To her, they are the tools of the devil. > > We don't talk about religion with my wife's family... Maybe you should point out that in Job the bible describes what some believe to be dinosuars ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles "Is it safe?" asks the friend. "Absolutely." Friend sticks his finger into the beaker, screams, and pulls it out with severe burns from the acid. Other students laugh at his stupidity, and the Balseraph grins as he gains a point of Essence. "What I meant was, the acid is perfectly safe..." As i see it, a seraph could have said this, since the balseraph didn't like, if the balseraph had said," yes it safe to poke your finger in here," that would have been a lie, and the Balseraph along with a few classmates would have beleived it to be safe. Seraphs are not telling a lie if their wording is litterally not a lie. jahon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 00:01:28 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Wow.. Cool Game AA Beth writes: >>[Brandon] >>>Djinn have me completly stumped. They seem to be 'serial killers' >>>or 'stalkers' but they arnt allowed to harm who they attune >>>themselves to. >> >>Casca >>>They can't -hurt- their fixations, true, but that doesn't mean the Djinn >>>can't make them miserable. >> >>"While attuned to something, the Djinn himself cannot bring it harm, >>either physical or emotional." [IN pg 144] >> >>No, I don't believe the Djinn can make them miserable, if that constitutes >>emotional harm. > >Yrg. I'd strike "emotional." The example at the front is perfectly >obvious as a sort of emotional harm. Yay! Hee hee hee... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare which makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 01:04:32 -0700 From: Chris Piekarski Subject: Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime > OK, moving on. I know this is gonna sound ignorant, but I'm just a poor > backwater demon with no experience in this particular area... > > ... so can anyone recommend some good anime for me? Preferably IN-relevant, > but anything good would be appreciated. My town is only 5000 people (about > 4,985 of which are non gamers, and 4,985 of which have never even *heard* of > anime), so I've never had much chance to see it. The limits of my > experience include Vampire Hunter D, one episode of Tenchi, half of Akira > and a bit of Battle Angel (at Gencon two years ago.) Well...anime is my specialty, so I should be able to field this one. For kinda dark but cool imaginative anime, try X 1999, Fushigi Yuugi, Bleed Hangup Jinshoku, and of course Evangelion(a perfect example of Heaven vs Hell). Only Evangelion is distributed in America, but it's still easy to find the others if you go to a decent anime store. - -- --¥-Chris-¥-- Webmaster of -Anime News and Reviews- GodGundam@humanoid.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 05:51:22 -0500 From: "Joel Mathis" Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles gibsonc@NKU.EDU wrote: > "Is it safe?" asks the friend. > > "Absolutely." > > Friend sticks his finger into the beaker, screams, and pulls it out with > severe burns from the acid. Other students laugh at his stupidity, and the > Balseraph grins as he gains a point of Essence. > > "What I meant was, the acid is perfectly safe..." > > As i see it, a seraph could have said this, since the balseraph didn't > like, if the balseraph had said," yes it safe to poke your finger in > here," that would have been a lie, and the Balseraph along with a few > classmates would have beleived it to be safe. > Seraphs are not telling a lie if their wording is litterally not a lie. So what you are saying is that intentionally misleading someone by choice of words is not a lie. That seems to fit my definition of a lie exactly. Intentionally misleading someone wether you actually say "Its safe to put a finger in a blender" or if you mislead someone to think that is safe to put a finger in the blender by not qualifying the statement, they ammount the same thing, morally speaking. Joel Mathis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 07:35:36 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... > Oh, you ought to hear my fundamentalist mother-in-law go off about > dinosaurs. She's convinced that their just part of some big > paleontological conspiracy to refute creationism. To her, they are > the tools of the devil. Not a big fan of Jurassic Park, I take it?? Also, feel free to have somebody shoot me-- but ive been working discreetingly (ie. without blabbing it to my friends/players, like I sometimes have a bad habit of doing) about making a cool little adventure.. A small island, with a demonic tether. On the island were many servitors of Vapula and Nybbas. They are preparring to open a huge resort peopled with some anciect guests.. In Nomine Jurassic Park, if you will.. It might sound pretty silly, but ive actually got it almost making some kinda sence.. I might even run the adventure one day.. > We don't talk about religion with my wife's family... I suppose they wouldnt be thrilled with In Nomine, huh?? :) - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) Jacksonville, FL ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:58:30 +0200 From: Ijon Tichy Subject: Re: IN> Jewish IN At 18:20 01/01/98 +0000, Jo Hart wrote: >I think I could write a version like this, but I don't know how playable it >would be. The idea of the fall and the war between heaven and hell are not >really Jewish in origin so.. they'd have to go ;-)And demons are more like >the fae in medieval folklore. Well, there are some Fall-harbingering signs in Jewish tradition, if you really try. And people like Asmodeus (ASHMEDAI) are mentioned quite extensively in apocrypha and traditions such as HAZZAL. If you (Jo) are undertaking any such feat, I shall be delighted to help. I have easy access to a lot of material in Hebrew, and connections with relevant scholars. Can't spare the time to do it myself entirely, though... - -- Ijon Tichy Sailing the 'net in the only e-mail: ijon@forum2.org Space Barrel known to man. Homepage: http://www.forum2.org/ijon MOO: VotSB, telnet://forum2.org:7777 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 09:35:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Benson (Alien Choirs) Perry M. Lloyd wrote: > Very nice... > > I like the "diminsished" bit. What does it mean, or have I missed > something? I'm glad you liked it. "Diminished" is presumably Benson's way of referring to his Outcast status, which is probably different from the status of Outcasts of the known, "terrestrial" choirs. He still seems to have moderately friendly relations with his unfallen fellows, for instance. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 09:52:54 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Jewish IN Perhaps Jewish IN could be written with the demons less an equal army opposing the angels and more like a criminal class. Some angels have the job of opposing them, like cops do, and other angels have jobs that are completely non-demon-related. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:06:14 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... I think that, in large part, the unpopularity of cats is just a random fluctuation of "fashion." Other details that might contribute to their unpopularity include: - They are nocturnal and stealthy, always a bit unnerving. - They are predators. (Never mind that this is their utility. Rationality has no place here. Think of "good" mice and "bad" cats on cartoons.) - They don't play the dominance/submission game, like horses and dogs do. Personally, I think this is the main reason they are disliked by most of the people who dislike them. Yeah, they had pagan associations, but so did just about every common animal and a lot of uncommon ones. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:10:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Seraphs and roles Can a seraph consider the possibility of having more than one "name"? Lots of humans have several. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:22:23 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Cast List Why not Lucy Lawless? Or for that matter, why wasn't Jim Carey selected for anything? I was casting a 4 1/2 hour drama, not a summer blockbuster or my cast would be different. Funny thing, one will notice that almost everyone mentioned has a wide range of acting talent, and has played a wide range of roles. Gibson has played a scarred recluse, Malkovich a blind farm hand, and Buscemi a meager sidekick who had no real discernable faults other than a fondness for nauseating beer. Uma Thurman? Considered, but never really liked her anyway. Even when I've loved her roles, the actress has left me wondering why she became a star. Carey is very funny. That's about it. His performances reek of playing up to the camera. - ---"J. Nunn" wrote: > > Awwww...why not Lucy Lawless for Gabriel? > == --Querent USELESS FACT: On a Canadian two dollar bill, the flag flying over the Parliament Building is an American flag. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:31:02 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Headaches In a message dated 1/3/98 7:06:58 PM, emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes: >>This reminds me... >>In my game, our seraph of Laurence got into a duel with a Calabite of Baal. >>In a parking garage. Directly beneath Yves' tether in Seattle. Less than >a >>quarter mile from Asmodeus' Tether. The two Seneschals showed up to the >>fight, and ended up placing side bets. > >Why am I not surprised? The Game will probably bet on nearly >anything, and Destiny has an inside track... Who *did* win? The Seraph. Because he had a third vessel. It was very close. And very noisy. What I didn't mention was that the Seneschal of Yves' assistant is a Elohite of Archives. And was holding the bets. (Any puns about bookies you just thought of are my fault...) :} Mark(Maybe I should do a guide to Seattle and environs for In Nomine...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:38:45 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? In a message dated 1/3/98 8:30:52 PM, lore@tmgbbs.com writes: >Question Everybody.. If you were a non-mundane thing in >the In Nomine universe, what would you be?? Cherub of Stone. Definitely. Clestial form of a winged Brown Bear (Ursus Arctos Arctos) I can't seem to make the "c'mere" attunement work, though... Mark(My wife is a Mercurian of Archives) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:27:54 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks >Now imagine the fun you could have if you ask poor Zane what it's job is! >I'd hope the angel could realise that the intended question is 'what is my >vessel's mortal job?' and answer that without incurring dissonance. In You don't need that step, IMHO. Being an angel and furthering the Word of one's superior (or one's own Word) is not a job -- it's one's reason for existence. So their "job" is "journalist", but their "reason for being" is Serving God's Will. The latter is actually relevant in that I've heard "What's your reason for being?" as a slangish way of asking "Why are you here?" (Both of which are ingteresting for a Seraph.) -Loki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:44:04 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime >Why does this description remind me of _Teenagers From Outer Space_? Because TFOS is cladestinely the "Ninja High School" RPG. Everyone knows R. Tal games is rather fond of anime anyway... ObIN: (free association mode) Speaking of R. Tal, which reminds me of Castle Falkenstein... Does anyone besides me think the 19th Century would be a great period for an In Nomine game? I have this vision of wierd drawing-room social battles between Mercurians and Impudites... - -- Kirt "Loki" Dankmyer PGP key avail. My opinions are my own. love * Eris * RPGs * Anime * Magick * Carroll * techno * hats * cats * Dada I waked, she fled, and day brought back my night. --Milton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:53:35 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Cast List - ---Dave Conrad wrote: > > > > > Here's a copy of my cast list for Superiors. Each role is followed by > > the actor/actress cast for the part, as well as a brief note showing > > the role or roles which most led to that actor's inclusion. > > > Gabriel: Christopher Walken (Gabriel in "The Prophecy") Who would > > argue that this wasn't THE performance that set Gabriel as a once > > great angel of fire driven mad? For those who feel that Gabriel > > should be played by a woman, I give you Demi Moore. Cold exterior, > > eyes which easily convey the wrath of God itself... > > I think that too many people would be expecting the same 'Fallen > Gabriel' role. Nick Cage doing a more insane role might be cool. Granted, it's just a rehashing of a former role, but this is the only Superior in any of my games that all of the players have visualized as Gabriel because it was such a good portrayal. I conceded (I loved the film) but I also acknowledge it's a bit off of the IN description. > > > Janus: David Bowie (Jareth in "Labyrinth") > > I like Bill Paxton here. I was actually most inspired by a recent video, with Bowie short haired, ear pierced, and high collared mottled clothing. > > > Marc: Wallace Shawn (Vizzini in "The Princess Bride") > > Marc ought to look and sound a lot smoother. He's over-exposed, but > John Travolta might be interesting. > This was personal. I love Wallace Shawn, and had to find a role he'd fit into. "What? Nybbas signed a 666 year deal with Amy Grant? Inconceivable!" > > Baal: Al Pacino (Michael Corleone in "The Godfather" trilogy) > > I always though Michael Biehn (Many James Cameron flicks). > Michael Biehn's not available, he's playing (surprise, surprise) a soldier of God. Exactly how many special forces operatives HAS this guy played anyway? > > Haagenti: Stan Winston, sort of. (Stan designed the dinosaurs in the > > "Jurassic Park" films, as well as the title characters from "Predator" > > and "Aliens".) > > Aside from the fact that he's dead. Chris Farley would make an > interesting Haagenti. In interviews, a lot of his friends said that his > whole life was a battle with consumption - of food, alcohol, drugs, etc. > Maybe not Haagenti, ubt definitely a victim. Winston died? Dang it! Why wasn't I told? That's ok, Farley died too, so now we're both casting the dead. Not that they don't fit, but how do you get them to the set? Runner up is of course Rick Baker, but I've always considered his work a runner up to Winston's. > > > Nybbas: Ben Kingsley (Cosmo in "Sneakers") Though Jonathan Price has > > shown he's not all bad at playing a media baron. > > Nybbas really ought to be James Woods. Videodrome is definitely a > movie to highlight this. I haven't seen Hercules yet, but I hear he > does a good job of it there, and the whole time I watched Contact, I > couldn't help thinking that James Woods was Nybbas. Besides, he even > looks a ot like the picture of Nybbas in the book. I have to concede on this one, but what am I to tell Mr. Kingsley? > > > Valifor: Michael Wincott (Top Dollar in "The Crow", Elgyn in "Alien > > Resurrection") > > Too serious. Valefor always seemed more swashbuckly to me. Depending > on how he does in Zorro, Antonio Banderas maybe. Or it might be > entertaining to have Bill Paxton as Janus and Valefor. You've a thing for Paxton don't you? :) Actually, Antonio was considered for Janus, but I like him a bit better as either a soldier or a malakim, making things hairy down below. I just don't see him as a Superior, but definitely an active force in the Symphony. Nicholas Cage actually came darn close, but I had to go with Wincott. He just has a Demon Prince aura about him, and Valefor was the closest I had. In fact, you may be surprised how close Wilford Brimley came to being Yves. :) "Your destiny. It's the right thing to do, and the divine way to do it." (silly Quaker Oatmeal commercial reference.) == --Querent USELESS FACT: On a Canadian two dollar bill, the flag flying over the Parliament Building is an American flag. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 11:11:09 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > ObIN: (free association mode) Speaking of R. Tal, which reminds me of > Castle Falkenstein... Does anyone besides me think the 19th Century > would be a great period for an In Nomine game? I have this vision of > wierd drawing-room social battles between Mercurians and Impudites... *Yes.* The Castle Falkenstein world, in particular, is so open to the arcane (Faerie is one of the great powers of Europe), that angels and devils could operate much nearer the surface. Even if it were a more "historical" nineteenth century, it has great possibilities. The various imperialistic adventures of the time offer canvases for military and political IN. Think of Kipling's "Kim" with celestials in place of the secret agents. Only the politics can much twistier, if you like. Example: The US pushes west, attacking and displacing Amerinds. At first, perhaps, the angels try to prevent this and fail. Then, given that the US *is* going to march west, they try to make the assimilation of the Amerinds as benign as possible. Affecting celestial policy is the retinue of ethereal gods that Amerinds worship and how the AAs feel about them. Then, too, there was a great uprush of interest in occultism during the latter part of the 19th century, largely fueled by the opening of the orient. Loads of opportunities for fun with individual sorcerers, organizations like Golden Dawn, historical figures like Alister Crowley and Helena Blavatsky, nifty and bizarre artifacts, and adventures dodging back and forth into the Marches. I'm very fond of the 19th century, though I wouldn't want to live there. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:30:18 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 1/3/98 8:30:52 PM, lore@tmgbbs.com writes: > >>Question Everybody.. If you were a non-mundane thing in >>the In Nomine universe, what would you be?? > >Cherub of Stone. Definitely. >Clestial form of a winged Brown Bear (Ursus Arctos Arctos) >I can't seem to make the "c'mere" attunement work, though... *grin* Malakite of Lightning, would you believe? (I made a vow when I decided to study electrical engineering that I would never work on a defence project or be involved in designing anything that was going to be used to kill people) And you wouldn't believe how hard I've tried to get that remote control attunement working ;-) I might not be tops at the smiting evil bit but I can mend stuff handily. Jo: Oh yeah, I can see whats wrong with this. Just need to whack up the power and it'll be cool. Jo's bf: 'Whack up the power'? Is that the technical term for it then? Jo: Yes. jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:38:55 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> RE: Querent's cast list - ---Stacy Stroud wrote: > > My comments on Querent's cast list: > Shouldn't David be a big Aryan demigod? I favor Rhames (or Laurence > Fishburne as he appeared in "Event Horizon") for Belial. I was debating about whether a patron to skinheads could be in a black vessel, but then decided David was probably above things like race. After all, wouldn't the Black Panthers also find a patron in David? Bottom line, I get the feeling if Rhames doesn't want to be moved, he doesn't get moved. Period. > > >Dominic: Lance Henriksen (Frank Black in TV's "Millenium") > > Dominique: Judi Dench (M from the Brosnan Bond films) Wow! I thought only I knew her name! I used to watch a BBC show called "As Time Goes By" starring Judi and Geoffrey Palmer (Admiral Roebuck from Tomorrow Never Dies). I'm very happy to see them back together again. == --Querent USELESS FACT: Why are the command centers on submarines sometimes cloaked in red light? No, Red Alert is not the right answer. Stop watching Star Trek. In daylight hours, the command center is lit normally, but at night, the only lights are red to dilate the pupils. That way, if the periscope is needed, the crew's eyes are already adjusted to the lack of sunlight. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 11:49:30 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime Then there's In Nomine meets Space:1889 -- angels, devils, Victorians, and Martians... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:09:58 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> RE: Querent's cast list Querent wrote: (about Dame Judi Dench) >I used to watch a BBC show >called "As Time Goes By" starring Judi and Geoffrey Palmer (Admiral >Roebuck from Tomorrow Never Dies). I'm very happy to see them back >together again. They're married in real life so it probably shouldn't be that surprising ;-) Back on topic (sort of). I'm surprised no-one has suggested Max Headroom for Nybbas. jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:43:25 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> My Thoughts on the Song of Stability. - ---LAstley wrote: > > to give my two cents... this smacks too much > of sleepers out of mage (no, i'm not accusing you of using ideas from mage, i > just think it's similar). i like the mage setting, but i wouldn't want to > start mixing it with IN. the whole subjective-universe thing sort of clashes > with IN's heaven & hell. I think this is the first time someone hasn't directly accused me of stealing this from Mage. I'm almost half tempted to figure out what this Mage game is all about. I played GURPS Vampire twice, and GURPS Werewolf once. I'm done. I stole the concept from an old idea (whose origin I've lost.) It follows: If man is composed of the same elements as the rest of the universe, constantly sharing atoms and molecules with the rest of the cosmos, man can be viewed as an active part of the universe itself. So, if man is conscious of the universe, then part of the universe is conscious of the greater whole. Mankind is the universe awakening and taking a look at itself. I just put an In Nomine bent on it and ran with it, not sure where I was going, and frankly not much caring. > > i don't really consider disturbance as being that disturbing. sure if someone > uses essence in the corporeal world other celestials might be able to hear it. > so what? i've always assumed "disturbance" is more a case of one of the > trumpets at the back on the orchestra doing a quick jazz riff then carrying on > as usual, rather than the symphony being put under any sort of unnatural > strain. Me too! But if I was listening to the 1812 overture and a jazz riff whipped out, I'd notice. And if I was in the orchestra, I'd pull the horn out of his mouth. (Or the song out of his essence.) > > if humans have such a powerful link to the symphony, shouldn't they perceive > disturbance even more strongly than celestials do? I thought about too. If you lived in a concert hall where the music was always playing at the same volume, would you notice it much anymore? I think of it as white noise to those who have lived in it so long, they can't hear the music. > also i think angels are more linked to the symphony than humans are. the > angels' natural home is heaven, where the symphony is much clearer (and so > essence doesn't cause disturbance). they only have trouble when working in the > corporeal realm because it's not "designed" for them. This contradicts my entire understanding of the Symphony. The Symphony is God's plan, which does not include angels. Angels weren't in the development stage of the Symphony. They sit back and listen. Then comes the fall, and demons want to play in the band. The Symphony takes on a darker noise, filled with terrible notes. So, the angels come and play their melodies, hoping to save the tune. But the orchestra is in fact the lives of mankind, and I'm thinking maybe that orchestra has the power to bounce out party crashers, or at least to try. > > also if the symphony had such powerful anti-disturbance powers why wouldn't it > prevent demons from entering the corporeal world? surely with their discordant > mini-anti-pseudo-(groucho?)-symphonies they'd set off alarms > > jst a few thoughts > > liam > I don't really want soldiers left and right repelling the actions of celestials. I'm more interested in the *possibility* of such an action. Kind of a Tibetan Master sort of power. Ok, mostly I just wanted to play with Metaphysics in the Celestial infested universe. == --Querent USELESS FACT: Why are the command centers on submarines sometimes cloaked in red light? No, Red Alert is not the right answer. Stop watching Star Trek. In daylight hours, the command center is lit normally, but at night, the only lights are red to dilate the pupils. That way, if the periscope is needed, the crew's eyes are already adjusted to the lack of sunlight. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:02:29 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> RE: Querent's cast list Arnold was specifically avoided both for David (Arnold is inherently a happy guy who smiles a lot) and for Janus (Arnold's a bit too grounded for an Archangel of Wind). I see Bowie as a more airy individual. - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > Arnie Schwartzen? And, weirdly enough, I'd like to see > David Bowie as *Dominic*. Put him in a hooded cloak, tell him > to speak very softly... > == --Querent USELESS FACT: Why are the command centers on submarines sometimes cloaked in red light? No, Red Alert is not the right answer. Stop watching Star Trek. In daylight hours, the command center is lit normally, but at night, the only lights are red to dilate the pupils. That way, if the periscope is needed, the crew's eyes are already adjusted to the lack of sunlight. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 13:19:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> My Thoughts on the Song of Stability. Querent wrote: > I thought about too. If you lived in a concert hall where the music > was always playing at the same volume, would you notice it much > anymore? I think of it as white noise to those who have lived in it > so long, they can't hear the music. This resembles a piece of ancient thought. The Pythagoreans are the ones who coined the phrase "music of the spheres." They believed that each celestial sphere (the crystal spheres in which the stars and planets were thought to ride in geocentric astronomy) rang with a specific note. The varying volumes as the spheres oved through their courses produced the "music of the spheres." Why don't we hear it? We do. We always do, and always have, so we tune it out. You need mystical enlightenment to tune in again. > This contradicts my entire understanding of the Symphony. The > Symphony is God's plan, which does not include angels. Angels weren't > in the development stage of the Symphony. They sit back and listen. My understanding was that canon defines the Symphony as simply Everything, viewed under a musical metaphor. Angels and humans alike, along with rocks and stock market fluctuations, are all parts of the Symphony. The angels aren't just passive listeners to it; that's one reason the choirs and bands think of themselves as musical instruments. My understanding was God is the Composer/Conductor, the angels are the players/instruments, and everything else, including us, is the music. The metaphor can't be that neat, because the celestials are subject to dissonnance and dischord, features of music, not players or instruments. But if there's a difference, it's that angels are closer to the core of things than we are. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:28:43 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime >ObIN: (free association mode) Speaking of R. Tal, which reminds me of >Castle Falkenstein... Does anyone besides me think the 19th Century would >be a great period for an In Nomine game? I have this vision of wierd >drawing-room social battles between Mercurians and Impudites... Ack! Someone else thought of it too! (Yes, I confess, I'm trying to work out a story with Caliah in the Regency period, still an Elohite of Michael, posing as a young society lady, and trying to deal with a depraved duellist Impudite of Beleth...) - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 13:36:56 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles > > > "Is it safe?" asks the friend. > > > > "Absolutely." > > > > Friend sticks his finger into the beaker, screams, and pulls it out with > > severe burns from the acid. Other students laugh at his stupidity, and > the > > Balseraph grins as he gains a point of Essence. > > > > "What I meant was, the acid is perfectly safe..." > > > > As i see it, a seraph could have said this, since the balseraph didn't > > like, if the balseraph had said," yes it safe to poke your finger in > > here," that would have been a lie, and the Balseraph along with a few > > classmates would have beleived it to be safe. > > Seraphs are not telling a lie if their wording is litterally not a lie. > > So what you are saying is that intentionally misleading someone by choice > of words is not a lie. That seems to fit my definition of a lie exactly. > Intentionally misleading someone wether you actually say "Its safe to put > a finger in a blender" or if you mislead someone to think that is safe to > put a finger in the blender by not qualifying the statement, they ammount > the same thing, morally speaking. I agree it is morally the same, and a seraph shouldn't be putting humans in such danger. However, the point I was trying to make is that seraphs can deiberatly mislead people. If asked how old they are and they respond,"Older than you think." this is true and purposly misleading at the same time. A human would guess the angel to be a few years older then the vessel looks. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #547 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.