From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jan 17 01:17:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA06453 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:17:09 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id BAA14457 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:18:40 -0600 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:18:40 -0600 Message-Id: <199801170718.BAA14457@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #571 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, January 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 571 In this digest: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes IN> Uriel Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes IN> Liber Reliquarum RE: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Uriel Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Definitions, please IN> IN: Wolf Baiting Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes RE: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> IN: Wolf Baiting Re: IN> Other Rafael Stuff Re: IN> IN: Wolf Baiting IN>Heavenly Judgement attunement Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Uriel Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Heavenly Purges! Re: IN> Definitions, please RE: IN> Who are you, anyway? Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes IN> The year 745 Re: IN> Definitions, please Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:33:55 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com wrote: > So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > as a GM or a PC? I'm currently running a demonic game; to make my life easier, the first adventure is Feast of Blades. I don't normally like pregenerated ones, but this was a good one, and I sometimes like to start off a new system and game with a pregen, then start building off of it myself. Right now there's four players (there was a fifth, a Calabite of Vagarog, but the player moved to Canadia): A rather dumb but admittedly *very* funny Shedite of Kobal (who has gotten the whole party, especially the Bal, rather pissed most of the time, and is the only PC to lose a vessel so far), a rather cold Balseraph of Nergal (he goes so far as to refuse to heal or help *anyone*, seeing any form of healing as being opposed to sickness), a fairly sane Habbalite of Malphas (he has the Polarize attunment and uses it *constantly* when a fight breaks out), and the new guy, a Lilim of Andre. They've gotten to the point where they meet Rasposo, and are doing pretty good so far. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:47:53 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > But to answer your question. No. I'm not running a campaign, and haven't > got the details for any campaigns worked out. > > So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > as a GM or a PC? Not quite a campaign... I've found that I'm better at running games that last about 6-10 sessions, rather than ongoing sagas. I usually call these 'sandwich' games, as opposed to the usual 'meals'. But yeah, I am running an IN game - the "Too Too Solid Flesh" adventure I posted last month. My only changes have been to make the skills more comprehensive - getting rid of 'Small Weapon' and 'Large Weapon' for instance, and replacing them with a 'Melee Weapons' skill that provides skill with all hand weapons, that sorta thing. We're having a blast. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia (No killing moths or putting boiling water on the ants) Car wash (also on Sundays) No longer afraid of the dark Or midday shadows Nothing so ridiculously teenage and desperate RADIOHEAD, "Fitter Happier" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:18:03 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > >But to answer your question. No. I'm not running a campaign, and haven't > >got the details for any campaigns worked out. > > > >So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > >as a GM or a PC? > *hmm* *scratch chin* Lemme think. I am the GM of the almost but not quite infamous In Nomine Backwards campaign, The Holy War. (shameless plug here: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~zenith/in-nomine/main2.html) After spending 12 patient sessions building the universe, I am now doing the equivalent of walking into it with a Remington Roomsweeper full of buckshot. And enjoying it. Nothing like full scale Armageddon to bring your players a little angst and depression. It makes a heart proud. There are five player characters, all Angels: Dana, Cherub of Judgment and soon to be traitor Star, Mercurian of Creation in the Service of Novalis, but working on that Lust as fast as she can move her booty Maxwell, Cherub of the Sword and a man with a sense of duty Malcolm, newly-christened Vassal of Fire, Ofanite of Fire, Teller of Parables Jered, Seraph of Yves and Man who Claims to do Nothing Stupid (We gamed last night and I'm still giggling. Don't mind me.) There's a very small PBEM offshoot of Holy War which involves the Kobalites, who are, strangely enough and for several implausible reasons, very important to the whole schindig. When the Boss takes off without even leaving a pager number and leaves the kids in charge for years on end... I play in a handful of other stuff, all of which is online right now. I'm my own Lilim self on a MUSH Maya got me addicted to, and I play in one other very small PBEM game. I absolutely can't imagine being a player in a Face to Face game. I think I would slowly go insane. I like being God too much. I'm just an In Nomine junky. If I'm seperated for too long, I either need a ravenous Amber fix, or I start to drool. - - Em, Balseraph of the Game, the Demon of Playing IN Backwards while wearing Plaid Pants ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:21:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes My only > changes have been to make the skills more comprehensive - getting rid of 'Small > Weapon' and 'Large Weapon' for instance, and replacing them with a 'Melee > Weapons' skill that provides skill with all hand weapons, that sorta thing. That scares me to death, personally. I thought it was a bit dodgy even in WOD games, though I could never be bothered to change it personally. The techniques involved with swords and spears are, I would imagine, very different indeed. (Do you know that all small weapons and large weapons have individual skills in canon?) It makes Malakim of Eli even more scary than they already are. Personally, I reckoned the divisions in 4th Ed Ars Magica were pretty reasonable, though some of the two-weapon combos were a bit strange. Cloak and Dagger was hilarious, though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:40:20 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Uriel >>>Your whole catholic church idea was cute too, but too much of a stretch.<<< Well darn, it made sense to me.... - -David (I shoulda read the Bible Code) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:47:12 -0500 (EST) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Kevin Walsh writes: [how to avoid Seraph and a Malakite killing demons on sight] [..various options deleted...] >Give the Seraph of Michael >orders from his boss not to kill them. Have the meetings in public >places, so the Seraph and the Malakite have the choice of either talking ^^^^^^ >or being arrested. Bad move. Never offer a Malakite a choice about allowing a demon to live. "Care to have some Dissonance, just for fun?" However, Superior's Orders will work just as well for the Malakite as for the Seraph. It also helps if the individuals in question don't *know* they're talking to demons. They don't wear placards on their Vessels, after all. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:40:19 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Liber Reliquarum >>>There isn't an official canon answer. You could get an IO account and check the playtest files, or wait for Liber Reliqarum to be released and see if it's in there. Unfortunately, even if it's in there, no one can tell you because the book hasn't been released. I'd say, wait for it, and if it's not there, ask again later.<<< Sez who? I can mention a few of the contents of the book, all the better to whet your appetites... ;) Raphael's Trumpet will not appear in the Liber Reliquarum, but Gabriel's will. So will several other artifacts wielded by Archangels and Demon Princes. - -David (but no, I'm not going to play 20 questions ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:54:38 -0500 From: Jack of Spades Subject: RE: IN> Last Night's Quotes On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com wrote: > So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > as a GM or a PC? I GM not one, but two, campaigns, lumped under The Powers That Be. PTB: The Bad and the Ugly (http://imagen.home.mindspring.com/fgs/ptb/bu_external.html) is a light-hearted demonic campaign, starring: * Anata, Lilim of Technology and aspiring Demon of the Internet * KORGA, Calabite of Hardcore and aspiring Demon of Bad Career Moves * Misran, Balseraph of Technology * Slortar, Shedite of Lust and all-around lazy bastard * Vaneuriel, Impudite of the Media (the token "choir boy") So far, it's been a howl. I've only barely had to make anything up; the demons are so into their own plots and backstabbing one another over petty greivances that the angels really only have to pick up the pieces. And as for getting caught in their own traps... well, they should just be happy they don't serve Fire. Y'see, I'm really on the Side of the Ange ls... Then there's PTB: Iron Halo, which was originally a mixed Soldier/Angel campaign set in the 40th century, 2000 years after Armageddon. (http://imagen.home.mindspring.com/fgs/ptb/ih_external.html) It's currently rebooting; I made some major casting and setup errors, and for a campaign intended to run for three years (I have that many stories), losing three months to get it right is worth it. It'll be switching to GURPS In Nomine, probably, and focusing more on the Soldiers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:01:07 -0700 From: Chris Piekarski Subject: Re: IN> Uriel Querent wrote: > > Ok David, that's one theory, but I think you're overlooking the obvious. > > 745 can also be written as 7:45 > > 7:45 is sometimes referred to as "A quarter to Eight", but > occasionally you'll find those people that use "a quarter of" instead > of "a quarter to". > > A quarter of 8 is 2. 2 represents the divine duality. Light and > darkness, good and evil, coke and pepsi, ... > > Thus, prior to the year 745 there were many pagan forces at work, but > in that year, cosmicly the universe was drawn into a duality and the > pagan spirits were negligible at best. Uriel's job was done. So, he > got invited upstairs for a darn good game of bowling. > > Your whole catholic church idea was cute too, but too much of a > stretch. And _that_ was obvious? - -- --¥-Chris-¥-- Webmaster of -Anime News and Reviews- "In the middle of difficulity lies opportunity."--Albert Einstein GodGundam@humanoid.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:13:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > Kevin Walsh writes: > >Give the Seraph of Michael > >orders from his boss not to kill them. Have the meetings in public > >places, so the Seraph and the Malakite have the choice of either talking > >or being arrested. > > Bad move. Never offer a Malakite a choice about allowing a demon to live. > "Care to have some Dissonance, just for fun?" > It doesn't carry a time limit. So the Malakite has to learn to be sneaky and try to bump it off later in a less public place. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:43:24 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Definitions, please >I'm neither deluded not obsessed. How could you think such a thing? Hmmmm. Ideas of reference and persecution. In denial, too. The prognosis isn't good. Ni Ke Hsin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:25:59 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: IN> IN: Wolf Baiting First off, I should say that while I dislike WoD in general and loath Changeling in particular, I'm not arguing that everyone should do so, or that the games are in any sense bad. I don't like them, but for idiosyncratic reasons. There is no reason a game has to be authentic in order to be fun, and we play games to have fun (something WoD doesn't seem to realise, often), the charge of inauthenticity isn't much of a criticism. However, for me, I'll enjoy a game much more if it captures the feel of a genre. Changeling captures the feel of the (highly psychologised) WoD genre, but not of the fairy tale. >I was making a linguistic nitpick as opposed to a mythological one. I >genuinely don't know enough about the mythological Sluagh to make any >generalisations about them. > >(Sluagh is a slightly archaic form of the Irish word slua, meaning crowd or >host. Conceivably, in Scots Gaelic, it is still spelt sluagh. ObTrivia: >the word slogan is derived from it. A slua-ghairm was a war-cry chanted >by a crowd.) Either way, they don't seem asocial. The term refers to a group. To refer to an individual creature as a sluagh is like referring to an individual drunk as a party. > >> Even worse is the Eshu kith. Eshu was a Yoruban god, not a class >> of beings, a punisher of sins, later associated with Satan (once >> Christianity came to Nigeria.) Not only is a singular made plural, but the >> personality of the singular doesn't resemble the plural in any way. > >Personally, I reckon it was picking a nice idea and then giving it a cool >name borrowed from folklore. Fair enough. I'm a little more cynical about the motives. Ever politically correct, WW wanted to include the traditionally marginalised Africans, but like most political correctness, they couldn't be bothered to actually learn about what they wanted to include, so they further marginialised the Africans by taking their lore out of context and twisting it to fit a non-African idea. My point still stands: it isn't authentic folklore. If they just wanted an African name to go with their idea, they would have down better with Anansi. True, Anansi is a spider, not a fairy, and an individual not a species. But he did like to tell stories and he didn't stick around when there was work to be done. > Fairies were never enchanted with >> youth. > >What exactly do you mean by that statement? What I mean is that you don't find in fairy tales the notion that childhood is something purer and more innocent, more desireable, than adulthood. That little monologue in Ch. about "Today I was the youngest" and all the responsibilities involved is, to use your phrase, modern stereotypes. The children protagonists in fairy tales were either uncharacteristically level-headed, generous, and polite for their age (as contrasted with the other children in the story) or typical obnoxious squeebles who got in trouble for it. It was only in the late 19C that the association of "childlike wonder" and the fairy realm was made, when it was assumed that children and animals were better able to see fairies (or ghosts, or angels) because their minds had not yet been stuffed into the suffocating corset of civilisation. >Define a fairy tale :) I can't give you one that will stand up to Socratic scrutiny, but as something off the top of my head I'd say a fairy tale is a story belonging to traditional folklore involving supernatural agents, instruments, or events though not directly relating to religion; or any story consciously derived from such folklore. There are many sub-genres of fairy tales, each with their own tone. Ch. doesn't get close to any of them. >Specific objections to Mage? Other than the Hollow Ones and Virtual Adepts? Actually, I didn't object to the Virtual Adepts, because in the popular thinking of our times, so much magic is attributed to computers (though it isn't called that). Because so few people understand computers, the abilities of the computer have been greatly exaggerated. My primary objection to Mage was the metaphysics. A lot of attention is giving to explaining the way the world *really* works (paradigms, paradox, spheres, etc). Is this a paradigm or is it some sort of super-paradigm? The cumbersome magic system implies that the traditions all believe in the spheres, quintessence, paradox, etc. In fact, in the Book of Crafts, they mention that the Kopa Loei explain magic differently. So we have all of these traditions with markedly different goals, methods and beliefs, but who all agree on the underlying metaphysics of the universe. Which just happens to conform to the spirit of late 20th Century California-style New Age magic. Tubular, dude. Just look at the bibliography in the back. There's only a couple of books that could be considered part of traditional magic or it's scholarship,and of those, Occult Conspiracy is puerile. (The author claims, perhaps rightly that many of the Founding Fathers of the USA were involved in Occult groups, and points as evidence to the eye-and-pyramid symbol on the dollar bill. But he doesn't go on to argue that this effected the history of the US in any way. In fact, there is very little conspiracy in the book at all). So where is John Dee, Henrik Kramer, Paracelsus, Blavatsky, Lynn Thorndike, Malinowski, Kornelius Agrippa, Giodorno Bruno and all those other magicians and scholars of magic? And if you're not going to do any research into the field, why pretend? Why have a thoroughly unhelpful (while grindingly pretentious) Afterword and bibliography, when it isn't an aid to research but merely a sort of personal endorsement? Grrrr. I find very little connection between Mage and any traditional magic. Again, this doesn't mean the game can't be fun; it just means that it isn't fun for me. >> In Nomine is similar in that it doesn't pay any special attention >> to the details of Angelology or Demonology. But this isn't such a problem >> because it has something of the feel of Celestial lore. > >I can't let you get away with that statement. Expand. Expand on which? That In Nomine isn't true to the details of Angelology/Demonology, or that it has the feel of the genre? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:38:50 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > My only >> changes have been to make the skills more comprehensive - getting rid of >>'Small >> Weapon' and 'Large Weapon' for instance, and replacing them with a 'Melee >> Weapons' skill that provides skill with all hand weapons, that sorta thing. > >That scares me to death, personally. I thought it was a bit dodgy even in >WOD games, though I could never be bothered to change it personally. The >techniques involved with swords and spears are, I would imagine, very >different indeed. (Do you know that all small weapons and large weapons have >individual skills in canon?) > I have to agree with the idea of the melee skill. In my games, I like to avoid conflict of a violent nature when possible. In "real life", fights are quick and brief for the most part. (I give instruction in various forms of fencing and practice three unarmed martial art forms) While that approach may seem unrealistic, it does away with a whole slew of game tying technicalities. "Well, Fred, I see that you are a large weapon person. That dagger you picked up to enter the fight would give you a negative modifier to hit..." In a game system that doesn't allow for range (unless they've changed that rule), then I could see sloughing off some of the edges to make the game handle smoother. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:03:20 -0500 From: The Baron Samedi Subject: RE: IN> Last Night's Quotes Right now, I GM a game, and play in a game. (Loki's game, in fact. we went Celestial and called the superior. hehehehe) The Baron Samedi occasionally Salem, Cherub of Destiny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:11:21 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> IN: Wolf Baiting >> >>(Sluagh is a slightly archaic form of the Irish word slua, meaning crowd or >>host. Conceivably, in Scots Gaelic, it is still spelt sluagh. ObTrivia: >>the word slogan is derived from it. A slua-ghairm was a war-cry chanted >>by a crowd.) > > Either way, they don't seem asocial. The term refers to a group. >To refer to an individual creature as a sluagh is like referring to an >individual drunk as a party. > Well, in the myths that I have come across, the sluagh are never seen. They are the scratching at the window sill, that creaking in your closet, the glistening orbs that stare back at you as you pull your car from the curb at night. So, how do you refer to these creatures in the individual? I would be curious to know. I can agree with the comments on the Eshu. Whoah, get me back on topic, Armand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:11:35 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Other Rafael Stuff In a message dated 1/16/98 10:49:47 AM, armand@spiretech.com writes: >If there isn't a canon location for Rafael's trumpet, then what's the >consensus on a probable location/new owner? If you're talking about The Last Trump (tm), Gabriel currently has it, according to her writeup in The Marches... Mark(if you're talking about something else, I don't know...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:24:21 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> IN: Wolf Baiting In a message dated 1/16/98 2:32:45 PM, nkhsin@netrover.com writes: >>Define a fairy tale :) > > I can't give you one that will stand up to Socratic scrutiny, but >as something off the top of my head I'd say a fairy tale is a story >belonging to traditional folklore involving supernatural agents, >instruments, or events though not directly relating to religion; or any >story consciously derived from such folklore. > There are many sub-genres of fairy tales, each with their own tone. >Ch. doesn't get close to any of them. Or simply read J. R. R. Tolkien's "On Fairy-Stories". Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:22:37 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: IN>Heavenly Judgement attunement Hmmmm... Says here (on p.115) "A luminous sword appears...thw sword flies to the attack, striking the victim once a round for 7 hits of damage. This attack lasts until either the guilty party or the angel of Judgment is dead, or until the invoker wills the judgment to end." Ok, no problem, almost... According to H&H, the Big Dom doesn't have a problem with taking a guilty celestial and ripping his forces across the cosmos. What I'm wondering is this: The description doesn't specify what *type* of damage is done. I always assumed it was just corporeal damage. Then, I had a thought: Upon the destruction of the Celestial's vessel, might the sword start doing Celestial damage to the guilty party? It does not seem apparent that it would. At the same time, it is not expressly denied either. It *would* be in keeping with Dominic's "punish the guilty" philosophy on interacting with fallen Celestials. For a 7 essence expenditure, I think this is a pretty darn good interpretation of a vaguely worded attunement. == --Querent USELESS FACT: The name Led Zeppelin was first coined by Keith Moon, drummer for The Who. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:23:41 EST From: DSChenin Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes In a message dated 98-01-16 10:49:41 EST, you write: << So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either as a GM or a PC? >> I am not currently running or playing in a campaign. but I am getting ready to start my first In Nomine campaign. In a few weeks. If anyone has any suggestions for a first time GameMaster I'd love to hear them Obsidian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:28:05 EST From: DSChenin Subject: Re: IN> Uriel In a message dated 98-01-16 12:04:17 EST, you write: << Ok David, that's one theory, but I think you're overlooking the obvious. 745 can also be written as 7:45 7:45 is sometimes referred to as "A quarter to Eight", but occasionally you'll find those people that use "a quarter of" instead of "a quarter to". A quarter of 8 is 2. 2 represents the divine duality. Light and darkness, good and evil, coke and pepsi, ... Thus, prior to the year 745 there were many pagan forces at work, but in that year, cosmicly the universe was drawn into a duality and the pagan spirits were negligible at best. Uriel's job was done. So, he got invited upstairs for a darn good game of bowling. >> Ith has got to be one of the most twisted theories I have ever heard. I love. Sad part is, It makes as much sense as anything else Obsidian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:41:31 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Well, I'm currently running two campaigns, though they're fairly recently started: One, face to face, whose archives are at: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/feather.html And another in a small backroom of a social Mush, with some friends and a dice-roller: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html Both are fairly recent, but I'm working on them, I'm working on them... - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:16:09 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > << So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > as a GM or a PC? > >> > > I am not currently running or playing in a campaign. but I am getting ready > to start my first In Nomine campaign. In a few weeks. If anyone has any > suggestions for a first time GameMaster I'd love to hear them > Hmmm. *ponder* Here's some suggestions I can give you for your first session: 1) You don't know the rules. You THINK you do, but you don't. But don't let that stop you, it's okay. Neither do your players. 2) Your players will do everything they possibly can to mess up your plot and all your precious scenes and nasties and traps. They're players, that's their job. Just roll with it and make up new stuff on the fly. And keep a phonebook handy for Instant Humans. 3) Plot broadly and never expect it all to happen. I found plotting too tight will not give you flexibility to keep the game, long term, on track. 4) Don't sweat the small stuff. 5) Have FUN! Get into your NPCs. Love them. Pet them. Give them good hair. And occasionally kill them off. You're there to have a good time too. - - Em, Balseraphin' about ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:57:16 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, DSChenin wrote: > In a message dated 98-01-16 10:49:41 EST, you write: > > << So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > as a GM or a PC? > >> > I am GMing a game starting Saturday. I ran one several monthes ago as well. Jahon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:12:59 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes >In a message dated 98-01-16 10:49:41 EST, you write: > ><< So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > as a GM or a PC? > >> > >I am not currently running or playing in a campaign. but I am getting ready >to start my first In Nomine campaign. In a few weeks. If anyone has any >suggestions for a first time GameMaster I'd love to hear them > I'm going to let you in on a GameMaster secret. It's a power word known only to GameMasters: NO! I know that it sounds commonplace, but players will come up to you with characters that could face down God. You have to use the power word. Use it often. Not too often, but enough to prove you are beyond subterfuge. And, as my friend Chris would say, "Damn the torpedos, FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!!!" (Just note that the use of 5 "!"'s denotes insanity.) Armand ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:15:09 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Kevin Walsh wrote: > My only > > changes have been to make the skills more comprehensive - getting rid of 'Small > > Weapon' and 'Large Weapon' for instance, and replacing them with a 'Melee > > Weapons' skill that provides skill with all hand weapons, that sorta thing. > > That scares me to death, personally. I thought it was a bit dodgy even in > WOD games, though I could never be bothered to change it personally. The > techniques involved with swords and spears are, I would imagine, very > different indeed. (Do you know that all small weapons and large weapons have > individual skills in canon?) Yup. See, my thinking is that if a player wants his character to only play with a particular type of weapon, then the division is immaterial. If the player wants to be a weapon-wielding dude of many techniques, then they won't have enough points to be competant in all the weapons they want. I'd rather push general character concept over rules any day. Anyway, I find combat to be small-arse fun these days. The big-arse fun is in character interaction and excitement. A cinematic fight scene can be a lot of fun - which is why I'd rather go with a simpler plan for combat skills - but the main fun in our game so far has been about interactions and mysteries. > It makes Malakim of Eli even more scary than they already are. Dunno... ours hasn't laid a finger/chopstick on anyone yet.... > Personally, I reckoned the divisions in 4th Ed Ars Magica were pretty > reasonable, though some of the two-weapon combos were a bit strange. > Cloak and Dagger was hilarious, though. It also depends on the game. I see IN as a fairly cinematic game (if not up to the nigh-perfect capturing of the genre done by FENG SHUI), and I'd rather that games like that were sketchy & freeform in combats. I'm also looking doing an adventure for LEGEND OF THE 5 RINGS, and that's _not_ a game I consider cinematic. For that, I'll be more exacting/unforgiving/anal about combat and duels. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia (No killing moths or putting boiling water on the ants) Car wash (also on Sundays) No longer afraid of the dark Or midday shadows Nothing so ridiculously teenage and desperate RADIOHEAD, "Fitter Happier" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:03:48 EST From: DSChenin Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Thanks for the advice Em, It's much appreciated and will be taken to heart Obsidian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:57:12 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Heavenly Purges! >I don´t know the exact name of the author but it was something like >MacDowel Goodwin. I bought the book at a second-hand bookshop, so I don´t >know if it is still in print. Maybe you can check Amazon.com (the largest >Internet bookshop) to see if it is still available. Mucho success. Thanks. Ni Ke Hsin Angel of Caffea Arabica, Mercurian in the service of Novalis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:03:06 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Definitions, please > > Though I'm still not sure why we're trying to resolve how In > > Nomine Angels relate to WoD Vampires. > > Neither do I. The settings aren't terribly compatible. Well, the WoD settings aren't terribly compatible with each other, at least as written. Yes, you can fudge things here and there to make them compatible, but it's far from easy. To do so without making at least one of the cosmologies delusional bunk takes some careful tiptoe-ing. So, needless to say, you are going to have to break some of the eggs to make such an omelet (who-boy; talk about your mixed metaphors). For what I am doing, I broke just about all of the eggs; the Celestials are off, the Werewolves are really off, the Changelings were disassembeled and used for parts, and the Mages were weighed in the balance and found wanting. About the only ones that were close were the Camarillia vampires, and even they had the whole story behind Cain all wrong... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:03:06 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: RE: IN> Who are you, anyway? > > goes by Goombert, and is now the Angel of Pun-ishment, one of > > Eli's folks (though Kobal would *love* to get his hands on him). > > Yes, but then he would not last long. Do you know how 10,000 > demons who all think they're very funny act around someone who > puns all the time? Note - I never said that Kobal wanted him to fall, just that he'd love to get his hands on him. Any angel who can make puns work for Heaven is a definate problem for Kobal. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:03:07 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a > campaign, either as a GM or a PC? Play: Saphreal, sneaky-paranoid Kyriotate of War, in Walter Milliken's game. Which means I get to RP with Beth. Be envious. Hosetep Ahkran, Truely Badass Mummy of War, in Charybdis Greydragon's (indefinitely suspended) Redemption PBEM. Older than dirt, and nastier than a Habbalah on PCP. Be afraid. Virgil White, Elohim of Creation in service to Lightning, in Kim Foster's (not yet started) PBEM. Cooler than the Blues Brothers at - -273 C. Be stylishly outdone. GM: Working on the mother of all crossover games. In Nomine/Vampire/ Werewolf/Hârn/Everway/Snow Crash/Ender's Game/various crap my mind has filed away for later use. Be stunned. (Eventually) Ran the GM screen adventure at ConMan (my first con GM experience) to raves, despite the pain that the knife caused. Be, well, grateful I didn't screw it up. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:26:54 -0500 From: Stacy Stroud Subject: IN> The year 745 > I think that in that year the Pope ruled that Uriel wasn´t an >Archangel but just a Saint. I don´t know why the Catholic Church made that >decision (maybe Dominic is behind this), but it was part of an >investigation to find out who were true angels and who were just saints. >Raphael was also labelled as just a saint. >Strange but True. > >Donato Ranzato > >PS. This info comes from a book called "Angels: An endangered species". A >very good book about the history of the angels. I've read the book too, but had forgotten that part. I did read something similar recently, though. Yep, looks like 745 was picked for a clever reason. (I have also read at least one description -- in the Encyclopedia Brittanica under "Angel" -- that places Uriel, rather than Michael, as commander of the Host. So perhaps that change was also based on historical changes in the source material.) BTW, being Catholic myself, I'd have to nitpick your (or Mr. Godwin's) description of exactly what was done to Uriel in 745. As far as I know, it's Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael who still bear the title of "Saint," and Uriel who lost it. One doesn't get demoted from Archangel to Saint. Saint is a designation for those (mostly dead humans) who are recognized as worthy examples of Christian living and/or martyrdom, and who may be *publicly* venerated, with their own shrines and everything. So it is the currently "canon" Archangels who are titled "Saint." In 745, the Church forbade the *public* cult of any other named angel but the aforementioned three. That included Uriel. Such critters could still be the object of *private* devotion, but the Church as a whole did not regard their existence as sufficiently well-established to justify public veneration. It's the same with human saints. *You*, all by yourself, can honor and pray for the intercession of any deceased person that you believe to be in Heaven, should you be so inclined. But only the canonized saints get shrines and individual feast days; everyone else gets crowded together on All Saints' Day. At least, that'd be my interpretation, based on the data I have. Can anyone actually quote what Mr. Godwin says on the subject? Stacy Stroud sstroud@uky.campus.mci.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:56:55 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Definitions, please > >Well, the WoD settings aren't terribly compatible with each other, at >least as written. Yes, you can fudge things here and there to make >them compatible, but it's far from easy. To do so without making at >least one of the cosmologies delusional bunk takes some careful >tiptoe-ing. > Well, I'd certainly hate to make any of them delusional bunk. I'm with Uriel on this one: Torch them all, let God sort 'em out. The one exception is the fairies. There is a small body of folklore in which various members of the fairy races are converted. Now, those mentioned in Changeling were obviously the unwanted cast-offs, too neurotic to be useful or fun. Uriel can have them. But the true fairies are still hiding in the mounds and wells and seas, still taking lovers and babies. We need an angelic task force to work on bringing them around to Heaven's camp. They may be reluctant to come, given past excesses, but if it was easy, God wouldn't be sending in the angels. Ni Ke Hsin Angel of Caffea Arabica, Mercurian in the service of Novalis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:11:45 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes >So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either >as a GM or a PC? I'm working on a campaign that I'll probably run PBEM. It is set in Toronto the Good, with PCs as Angels or Soldiers of God, involved in an experimental angelic Private Investigations firm. Toronto is a city with an amazing amount of culture and religious diversity, and surprisingly little friction. In the campaign version, even the Angels and Demons have an uneasy peace (as long as those pesky malakites stay out of the way). But there are problems and the PCs would be called upon from time to time to solve them. Ideally, the game would be In Nomine with a heavy dose of Phillip Marlowe. I'm not going to venture far from published materials, except in introducing a major Archangel. Ni Ke Hsin Angel of Caffea Arabica, Mercurian in the Service of Novalis ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #571 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.