From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jan 21 16:18:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15154 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:18:49 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA10113 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:10:58 -0600 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:10:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199801212210.QAA10113@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #582 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, January 21 1998 Volume 01 : Number 582 In this digest: Re: IN> By Any Other Name IN> Gabriel and Dissonance Re: IN>Lying Re: IN> Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking Re: IN> By Any Other Name IN> Vessel bits Re: IN>Lying [Fluff] IN> New to In Nomine Re: IN> Vessel bits Re: IN> Buddhist In Nomine Re: IN> Vessel bits IN> (Fwd) Fw: A little bit o' humor from my boss Re: IN> Vessel bits Re: IN> Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking IN> By Any Other Name IN> Gluttony vs. Greed Re: IN> New to In Nomine Re: IN> New to In Nomine Re: IN> New to In Nomine IN> By Any Other Name Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Fair Exchange Re: IN> By Any Other Name Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> New to In Nomine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:00:03 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name At 15:49 21/01/98 +0000, you wrote: > >Beleth causes fear because it's fun. Her Servitors cause fear because >it's fun. I'd had the impression they went out and caused fear in others to hide the fact they were so insecure.. kind of like the Wizard of Oz. > > (it makes me want to get >> some players together for some reruns of 'Dad's Army' playing squaddies in >> one of Baals more notoriously useless regiments -- I adore incompetent evil > >If you have Servitors of Baal, assign command of a similar NPC group to >them as punishment duty. They will deserve it some day. Ye gods, thats completely evil -- I've got to do it!! (Just need to trap^D^D^D^Dfind some players) >Unless I'm playing the Servitor of Baal, of course. Nonsense. A little command experience 'in the field' is just what every aspiring young officer needs to round out his military record. Don't worry about old Yxerax there, he's been replacing the ammo with rat-poison ever since he got shellshock at the charge of the light brigade. Whats that? No, its been a century or so since they took out an enemy installation, but at least there haven't been any problems with vermin. > >> -- all their mission briefings could begin with 'If this was at all >> important to the cause, you rabble would not have been assigned to it' and >> go on from there, and I could base all their NPC army officers on the guys >> from Blackadder Goes Forth. But I digress.). >> >Blackadder himself wasn't entirely incompetent, and neither was Darling(?). >Or maybe I'm remembering it incorrectly. But Haig...that was special. >"Right, we'll attack them here because this is where they've got their >strongest troop coordination." *grin* It takes talent to be incompetent if you aren't stupid. I seem to remember Darling was quite bright but he didn't care much what happened to the troops as long as he could take the credit and end up smelling of roses, and Blackadder was quite together but was so cynical he can't have been a very inspiring leader (and imagine if someone like that was your staff sergeant -- no-one would ever take you seriously :) ). jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:02:10 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: IN> Gabriel and Dissonance I mentioned earlier how I had gotten tons of story ideas about Gabriel by reading her write up, I just thought id post them to the list so they could be shot to hell and I could be told that there stupid :) Anyways. This could be a very neat series of campaign events, but one that could very easily shake/rattle/n' roll the game world.. THE THEORY-- Gabriel is the Archangel of Fire. She /is/ fire. She is fire as an illuminator, as a punisher. She is every part of fire. She is also insane. However. Angels do not just /go/ insane. They have a reason. The reason, in this case, is Belial. Because of her demonic counterpart she has come to view certain parts of her word as 'evil'. She, as an angel, dosnt want to be evil. Thus, she restrains those parts of her word as best she can. She trys /not/ to be fire as destruction, or fire as a killer. Thats /belial/ and that is bad. That is also dissonance. Just because there is a demon of fire who is destruction, dosnt mean that fire dosnt destroy things. She is, thus, dissonant. She manages to keep from falling (or going outcast) by the great good she does, spending time in tethers, and because she /is/ an archangel. However, Destruction is not evil. There is nothing 'evil' about a forest burning down, or even with a city burning down. Its tragic, sure. But it sometimes happens. Its alot like starwars-- luke and the Emperor. The Emperor tells him to reach out with the 'DARK SIDE' and strike him down with 'HATE'.. Its alot like what belial is doing. He's trying to keep Gabriel from hating, to keep her from striking out with the primal destruction of flame. Its not working totally-- but it is working.. What if, like luke did, Gabriel realizes one day-- that destruction isnt evil. 'HATE' isnt evil. We'd be stuck with a very powerful, very /sane/ gabriel-- who wanted Belial (And the rest of hell, but mostly belial) dead. Destroyed. BURNED to A HUSK! She would be back into heavenly politics in a flash. You can bet that things would change-- Fire is a big motivator, afterall?? Or..... What if she finally goes to far, and ends up outcast?? Perhaps eventually falling... - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:16:33 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN>Lying > A Balseraph totally believes his lies, correct? A > balseraph doesn't consider his lies lying. Also, unlike the > Habbalah, a balseraph doesn't maintain delusions of being an > angel - so CONSCIENTIOUS lying shouldn't offend it as it would > a seraph. Therefore, a balseraph with the lying skill could > delude itself in preparation to lying and believe something > false, then decide to lie and tell the truth - but it would > show up as lying to a detect lies scan :):). This kind of "am > I lying" double-whammy could be all kinds of fun if you were > trying to delude a seraph or something. You'd never be able to > trust your detect lies abilities again :):). You're a really weird person, Dan. We'll kill you last. I had to read this three times to get it. And then I decided you're really weird. You should NOT be allowed to play a Balseraph. There should be some sort of law. :) > Besides, Kobal might even help some of his balseraphim try this > just because it would be funny to mess with the host's minds - > but now I'm starting to get close to Em's territory with > Kobalitic balseraphim that can truthfully lie (falsely truth?). No, no, no... I have it on personal notice that Kobal would find this almost humorous enough to take notice of. Besides, Comedian Bals are a pretty bizarre bunch on their own right. (Actually I like the idea alot. Now to find a good NPC...) - - Em, the Mean Nasty and not at all Funny Balseraph ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:23:39 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking > BETH, Princess of Nitpicking > 'the world isnt that! this refrence on page 562 clearly states that > it couldnt even be anything even remotly like that.' > > BAND ATTUNEMENTS > ---------------- > > BALSERAPHS > Beths' Balseraphs can add their Ethereal Forces to any attempt to > attack someone elses arguement, or defend their own. Balseraphs of > Beth are the best debaters in hell. > MY GOD, I'VE FOUND MY CALLING! *look in shock* After regaining several points of essence with mind blowing long flames and several cute light hearted humorous comments, I found myself dragged before Asmodeus in an ugly sort of way. And he said to me, "Well, I have decided to loan you to Beth for a while. I'm sure you'll learn new... interesting... informative facts about her organization, and make sure everyone continues to play the Game happily. We wouldn't want anyone to play that GURPS Westerns or Supers, now would we? And another gaming system is just Right Out." "And Backwards?" I asked, a tremor in my voice. "If you must." So there it was. I was packed up and shipped across Hell to go bow before my new Temp-Master, hoping that maybe she would cough up an attunement and maybe a Rite or two for some truly interesting service. *laugh* - - Em, Baron of the Game, Balseraph of the Game in the Service of Nitpicking, Demon of In Nomine Backwards, wanter of a shorter title. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:29:23 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name At 14:09 21/01/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> some players together for some reruns of 'Dad's Army' playing squaddies in >> one of Baals more notoriously useless regiments -- I adore incompetent evil >> -- all their mission briefings could begin with 'If this was at all >> important to the cause, you rabble would not have been assigned to it' and >> go on from there, and I could base all their NPC army officers on the guys >> from Blackadder Goes Forth. But I digress.). > > >If you write it, I will plunder it for use. :) > This might be fun. I'm going to go and reread 'Catch 22' and then maybe I'll get onto it if I still feel the urge ;-) jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:47:05 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: IN> Vessel bits Ok, a Celestial vessel is for the most part identical to a normal Corporeal being. However, they don't have all of the Corporeal traits. They don't need to eat, sleep, or drink. They DO need to breathe. Ok, what about other things? (I know, you were hoping no one would ask, but here it comes.) A: WHAT DOES AN AUTOPSY SHOW? Anything? With no need to eat or drink, is any waste produced? Would a Celestial's corpse be noticably clean and devoid of any waste or imperfections? Does a Celestial corpse decay? B: DO CELESTIALS GET TIRED? They never need sleep, do they need to rest? If a Celestial walks down the road, does he ever have to stop? (other than to avoid suspicion) If the Celestial is actually exerting himself (e.g. chasing someone on foot, lifting a heavy object, etc...) does he get fatigued, or can he be pushed to his limits indefinitely? C: DO CELESTIALS SUFFER ILL EFFECTS FROM HEAT (OR THE LACK OF HEAT)? (I know intense heat or cold will hurt them, I'm referring to ambient heat in given environments, not blowtorches and liquid oxygen.) Do Celestials ever sweat? I know they *can* sweat, but if one didn't think about it, would they? Will a Celestial ever suffer from dehydration as the water in his body tries to evaporate? Would it even evaporate? Will a Celestial freeze to death or sustain hypothermia? What if he's walking around the arctic in a T-shirt and shorts for a month? D: DO THE CELESTIALS HAVE DNA IN THEIR CELLS? Can a Celestial be cloned? Would the clone be a Celestial vessel? If so, would it mature to the vessel's state and then cease aging, or would it not develop at all? Would the clone be a human? If so, would the human be ordinary, or would it have some of the divine as well? (e.g. soldier material) E: DO CELESTIALS SHED CELLS? They don't age...do their cells? Do they shed skin and hair cells? If not, then bacteria will have nothing to feed on, and they will never have body odor. Does oxygen decay the cells of a vessel as it does other organics? If so, without eating or drinking, do these cells get replenished, or does the vessel waste away? That's it for now, if I come up with more Q's, I know where to ask... == --Querent USELESS FACT: The hominid skeleton known as "Lucy" was named after the Beatles' "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds", the song that was playing when the discovery was made. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:37:23 -0600 (CST) From: Bob the Dancing Monkey Subject: Re: IN>Lying [Fluff] signoff in_nomine-1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:49:26 -0600 From: Christopher Nichols Subject: IN> New to In Nomine Greetings. Just this last week I purchased In Nomine (white hardback) and Heaven and Hell. Excellent stuff. So, anyhow, I had a question (or two). First, how great a variance in forms is there in celestials? Can Lilim be colors other than green? Could a Mercurian have hawk legs? Second, how are new demons/angels/spirits formed? Are they spontaniously generated by the celestial realms or consiously created by Superiors? I've got an idea for a mechanic for this, but was wondering if one already existed. I've got a question regarding melding In Nomine with another game of a similar bent, but I'm not certain it will be well received, so I'll put it on the back-burner for now. Anyhow, once again SJGames hits the jackpot. Chris Nichols (hey Archangel, loved GURPS IOU!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:52:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits I've always liked the idea that, on corporeal death, a celestial's vessel disintegrates into dust, poof!, in the manner of vampires on "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." But actually, my impression is that vessels are physically indistinguishable from human bodies, so I suppose they have cells and DNA and all. But, no, I don't think they do get tired or suffer from temperature extremes (short of tissue destruction). Yes, I suspect an autopsy would show someone who was surprisingly healthy (aside from death by violence) especially considering that they had no traces of food or wastes in their gut (though a celestial *could* eat of course). I think a clone would be a very healthy human. The cells continue running without eating or drinking because the celestial's Corporeal Forces keep driving parts of the metabolic cycle backwards, thus supplying energy. But all those are the boring answers. I like *poof!* myself. Midway between them are the autopsy results on a dead vessel in "The Prophecy." There were no eyes in the sockets and no indication of eye muscles, optic nerves, etc. There were no growth rings in the bones. The blood was typical of a seven-month fetus. There were both kinds of genitalia. (Skip that one for IN.) At this point, the doctor stopped looking for discrepancies, though he was sure he'd find more. Very cute, but I doubt Superiors would allow such clue-leaking workmanship. I bet it's either completely normal or *poof!* Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:04:39 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Buddhist In Nomine Raoul Duke wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Jesse wrote: > > Dear List, > > I was reading my copy of the Dhammapada when a revelation occurred to me. > > Or maybe it was enlightenment? No matter. I thought that by taking the > > titles and quotes from the Dhammapada, I could construct very interesting > > In Nomine adventures. These adventures would proceed along from a minor > > event to a full class apocalypse and re-birth forming a sort of > > "mini-campaign." > > I was curious if there would be any interest on the list in this project. > > It would be long (25+ installments) and I probably will not finish it > > before the end of February. If there is interest I will probably print it > > here on the list. If not, I may post it on the web or publish it. > Do it, by all means. We can always use more stuff that's intelligent & clever. > Reminds me; whatever happened to Rob Wolff/Bodhi? He just sorta vanished > somewhere before Night Music came out. Now there was a happenin' cat. Rob and I exchanged eMail for a while, and I believe he was leaving this list (and most of the 'Net in general) to focus on his personal life for a while. Hmmm... maybe I should drop him a line... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Uncle Bill will never leave a will And the tumor is as big as an egg He has a mistress, she's Puerto Rican And I heard she has a wooden leg TOM WAITS, "Cemetary Polka" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:19:24 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits On Jan 21, 3:52pm, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits > I've always liked the idea that, on corporeal death, a celestial's > vessel disintegrates into dust, poof!, in the manner of vampires on > "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." > > But actually, my impression is that vessels are physically > indistinguishable from human bodies, so I suppose they have cells > and DNA and all. But, no, I don't think they do get tired or > suffer from temperature extremes (short of tissue destruction). > Yes, I suspect an autopsy would show someone who was surprisingly > healthy (aside from death by violence) especially considering that > they had no traces of food or wastes in their gut (though a celestial > *could* eat of course). I think a clone would be a very healthy human. > The cells continue running without eating or drinking because the > celestial's Corporeal Forces keep driving parts of the metabolic > cycle backwards, thus supplying energy. > > But all those are the boring answers. I like *poof!* myself. > Midway between them are the autopsy results on a dead vessel in > "The Prophecy." There were no eyes in the sockets and no indication > of eye muscles, optic nerves, etc. There were no growth rings in > the bones. The blood was typical of a seven-month fetus. There > were both kinds of genitalia. (Skip that one for IN.) At this > point, the doctor stopped looking for discrepancies, though he was > sure he'd find more. Very cute, but I doubt Superiors would allow > such clue-leaking workmanship. I bet it's either completely normal > or *poof!* It turns out the boring answers are the correct ones in this case... The INSuperiors discussed the question for several weeks before that decision came about. The main reasons is that we _needed_ an answer for an adventure! ;) I strongly suspect that this is one of the areas that will change widely between campaigns. The vessels are very, very close to normal bodies. It still hasn't been decided if there are very subtle differences that can be detected by intense scientific analysis. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:22:07 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: IN> (Fwd) Fw: A little bit o' humor from my boss >>The Origin of Pets >> >>Tel Aviv, Israel-The Institute for Biblical Archeology today announced >>the discovery of early version of the Book of Genesis in the Dead Seal >>Scrolls. If authentic, it would shed light on the question, "Where do pets >>come >> from?" >> >>And Adam said, "Lord, when I was in the garden, you walked with me >>everyday. Now I do not see you anymore. I am lonesome here and it is >>difficult >>for me to remember how much you love me." >> >>And God said, "No problem! I will create a companion for you that will >>be with you forever and who will be a reflection of my love for you, so >>that you will know I love you, even when you cannot see me. Regardless >of >>how >>selfish and childish and unlovable you may be, this new companion will >> accept you as you are and will love you as I do, in spite of yourself." >> >>And God created a new animal to be a companion for Adam. And it was a >>good animal. And God was pleased. >> >>And the new animal was pleased to be with Adam and he wagged his tail. >> >>And Adam said, "But Lord, I have already named all the animals in the >>Kingdom and all the good names are taken and I cannot think of a name for >>this >>new animal." >> >>And God said, "Hey no problem! Because I have created this new animal >>to be a reflection of my love for you, his name will be a reflection of my >>own >>name, and you will call him DOG." >> >>And Dog lived with Adam and was a companion to him and loved him. And >> Adam was comforted. And God was pleased. And Dog was content and wagged >>his >>tail. >> >>And, it came to pass that an angel came to the Lord and said, "Lord, >>Adam has become filled with pride. He struts and preens like a peacock and >>he >>believes he is worthy of adoration. Dog has indeed taught him that he is >>loved, >>but no one has taught him humility." >> >>And the Lord said, "That shmuck! I will create for him a companion who >>will be with him forever and who will see him as he is. The companion >will >>remind him of his limitations, so he will know that he is not worthy of >>adoration." >> >>And God created CAT to be a companion to Adam. And CAT would not obey >>Adam. And when Adam gazed into Cat's eyes, he was reminded that he was >not >>the >>supreme being. And Adam learned humility. >> >>And God was pleased. And Adam was greatly improved. >> >>And Cat did not give a fuck one way or the other. Ain't that just the truth? ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:04:23 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits In a message dated 1/21/98 12:33:51 PM, querent@yahoo.com writes: >Ok, a Celestial vessel is for the most part identical to a normal >Corporeal being. However, they don't have all of the Corporeal >traits. They don't need to eat, sleep, or drink. They DO need to >breathe. Ok, what about other things? (I know, you were hoping no >one would ask, but here it comes.) I would say that, for a closer to canon game than mine, vessels will only look like well-kept human (or whatever) bodies. There is no DNA in any of their cells, micro-organisms will not feed on them, their skin structures provide flawless protection from the elements, and they will not sweat, have gas, or any other such difficulty. An autopsy will show that they were well-preserved for their apparant age, and lab tests will come up either negative or confused (no matter what the test is...) Mark ($0.02, as though you needed to be told...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:21:44 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking > - Em, Baron of the Game, Balseraph of the Game in the Service of > Nitpicking, Demon of In Nomine Backwards, wanter of a shorter title. Hmmmph. You could easily lower that Title. Might I suggest-- "Em, Balseraph Baron of the Game in Service to Nitpicking. Demon of In Nomine Backwards." I suppose you could put more on the first line, but that just dosnt *look* nice, does it? Symmetry, and all that.. Brandon, Habbalah of Nitpicking using his Choir Attunement ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:26:34 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> By Any Other Name >>>There, and done. But, that's the major problem. I could post say, my writeup of Raphael (to push a few buttons) but it isn't 'canon', it 'contradicts future supplements' and it is 'not recommended for use'. Great. Wonderful. Why don't I just hang myself now? What is the point of a gaming system you cannot expand on by yourself and STILL get the pleasure of buying the supplements and adding new stuff? I feel pretty detered from adding anything new to the system, and since that was my main interest in the game, it's hard to keep passing it around as 'the greatest thing since sliced bread' via word of mouth.<<< But Emily, I don't understand why you think you *can't* write your own version of Raphael and post it to the list! I was a Champions GM for many, many years, and I actually based my Champions campaign somewhat on the "official" Champions universe. At least, I started out that way, because I used all the villains and organizations published in the early supplements (anyone remember "Enemies", Enemies II", etc.?) I also started adding my own stuff to my Champions world, and as more supplements came out, sometimes I would incorporate new material into my world, and sometimes I wouldn't. By the time Hero Games actually published a "Champions Universe" sourcebook, years later (and just before they abandoned Champions to go to RTG and Fuzion (>>Not that I don't respect the writers and appreciate what they do. I just think they need a little customer input from us hard-cores.<<< Well, that's one reason why some of us read this list. But I would really like to know, Emily, what DO you want? You don't like new Superiors or expanded Superior writeups, you don't like anything that details the history or future of In Nomine since it might contradict your own campaign, you don't like adventures -- what is it you WOULD like to see published? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:26:38 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Gluttony vs. Greed >>>No thank you no. I would rather not think about 2000 zit faced 16 year olds at the command of a Lilim. Ewww.<<< I imagine she might think the same thing. - -David (there's gotta be some things even a Lilim won't do for a Geas...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:27:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> New to In Nomine Christopher Nichols wrote: > Second, how are new demons/angels/spirits formed? Are they > spontaniously generated by the celestial realms or > consiously created by Superiors? I've got an idea for a > mechanic for this, but was wondering if one already existed. According to the Angelic Player's Guide, new celestials are created by Superiors. It is also possible for a non-Superior (or two or more) to become a "parent" by donating Forces, but they still need a Superior to do the actual assembly. So, unless an angel was created by God, it was created by a Superior. Ethereal spirits are created by the imaginations of mortals (human and animal), as well as by the above process. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:27:55 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> New to In Nomine Christopher Nichols wrote: > I've got a question regarding melding In Nomine with another > game of a similar bent, but I'm not certain it will be well > received, so I'll put it on the back-burner for now. Oh, go ahead, ask. I, at least, am curious. What would the other game be? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:32:49 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> New to In Nomine > Just this last week I purchased In Nomine (white hardback) > and Heaven and Hell. Excellent stuff. Grrr, Wish I coulda found the White Hardback. Im stuck with the demonic black hardback.. Angels are /much/ cooler than demons :) > First, how great a variance in forms is there in celestials? > Can Lilim be colors other than green? Could a Mercurian > have hawk legs? Hmmm. Up to the GM really, but id probally be inclined to say no. That would be something like Celestial Discord for something /that/ radical. They wouldnt all look alike, but they would be similiar.. > Second, how are new demons/angels/spirits formed? Are they > spontaniously generated by the celestial realms or > consiously created by Superiors? I've got an idea for a > mechanic for this, but was wondering if one already existed. Superiors can either make them up, on the spot, using the forces-- or two angels (or two demons... even an angel and a demon) can contribute forces and a superior can make an angel with them (adding more forces from the symphony if there arnt enough donated.) Only a Superior can make new angels/demons. Its all detailed in the Angelic Players Guide (a great book by the way, Its recommened by 9 out of 10 Doctors) > I've got a question regarding melding In Nomine with another > game of a similar bent, but I'm not certain it will be well > received, so I'll put it on the back-burner for now. We're all grown up, go ahead and shoot :) Im intrested :) > Anyhow, once again SJGames hits the jackpot. Yep yep :) Brandon, Habbalite of Nitpicking ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:26:36 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> By Any Other Name >>>So my question is, why put out minor Superiors? Is not everything equal? I would think that a Superior is a Superior, and among the Demon Princes only the strong survive. You don't get to be 'lesser' or 'greater', unless we want to have a new scale of advancement for NPCs, putting a new step between 'Duke of Blah' and 'Prince'.<<< Actually, no. Some Superiors _are_ more Superior than others. Those in the basic rulebook are the major powers -- all the supplemental Superiors (such as Christopher, Fleurity, Mammon, Zadkiel, etc.) are much weaker than the other Archangels and Princes. As far as the average celestial is concerned, the difference in power levels isn't significant -- a weak Superior can still scatter your Forces at will just as easily as Michael or Baal. But when they're compared to one another, there are definite differences in power level, which is very significant in the political situation. This is why, for example, Heaven and Hell points out that Fleurity hasn't gained enough power yet to run the alcohol concessions in Shal-Mari, and Christopher isn't able to directly confront Nybbas and Saminga, two of his major rivals. And Furfur, being a brand new Prince, is pedalling hard to establish a power base and keep it, because right now he's the new kid on the block. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:15:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Casca wrote: > The party finally destroys the VapuTech by making the capacitor explode. > Over 100 points of Essence are released into the Symphony, one and a > half stories of the building are demolished, and the previous disturbance > level was about 24. I give up on the numbers I once lost count at well over 200, when the BigBad (15 Forces), plus three of the party (10 each) went celestial and duked it out. Fortunately, the Elohite ascended to Heaven shortly afterwards. He met Michael and The Lads on their way down, and convinced them that everything was fine... I was very tempted to give everyone a splitting headache, and tell them that they couldn't use their resonances for a few days, but I wimped out. When one of them later described the incident to a newly-arrived NPC, a week later, his response was: 'Yes, I had heard that.' Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:40:40 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Fair Exchange > >> >Oh man, this stuff is priceless, even if I don't get half the Brit jokes. >> >> Thanks! Thanks also (or blame if you prefer) to Maya for the initial >> encouragement/nudge. >> jo > >I have determined that Maya is an endless source of faceless, nameless, >drooling evil. I mean this is the best possible way. Trust me. :) >- Em I see. I .. see. Allow me to take up my full title. Maya, Angel of Plotting. An angel with tattoos. Yes, they're just tattoos. I'm still a Servitor of Eli in service to Blandine. They're only tattoos. I like tattoos. Take that Judgement Triad away or something nasty will happen to you. Faceless, nameless, drooling evil indeed. We shall have to see about that. (They're just tattoos. Now go away. You want to go away. I'm boring. You want to go away...) - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:42:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name Em wrote: > What is the point of a gaming system you cannot expand on by yourself > and STILL get the pleasure of buying the supplements and adding new > stuff? That is an admirable goal, but IN is in an awkward position for expanding without treading on GM toes. First, it is set in the real world, so they can't go around imagining up other planets or far-away lands, since our world is inconveniently mapped. ("Shadow World" by Iron Crown gave one *hemisphere* of a magic planet and deliberately kept the other hemisphere blank for GMs. "Traveller" did something similar with unmapped sectors, I think.) Second, it taps into a heavily-documented body of lore. If I want to publish new alien emperors or faerie kings, I'm unlikely to duplicate GM efforts, but angels and devils, especially famous ones, are another matter, not only regarding names (like "Raphael") but regarding functions (like "Angel of Death," "Demon of Sloth"). In short, there are a lot of constraints on this system. The concept requires them. So I think one has to either not use it or shrug and edit the published results to suit oneself. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:02:05 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > > The party finally destroys the VapuTech by making the capacitor explode. > > Over 100 points of Essence are released into the Symphony, one and a > > half stories of the building are demolished, and the previous disturbance > > level was about 24. I give up on the numbers > > I once lost count at well over 200, when the BigBad (15 Forces), plus > three of the party (10 each) went celestial and duked it out. Fortunately, > the Elohite ascended to Heaven shortly afterwards. He met Michael and The > Lads on their way down, and convinced them that everything was fine... > > I was very tempted to give everyone a splitting headache, and tell them > that they couldn't use their resonances for a few days, but I wimped out. > When one of them later described the incident to a newly-arrived NPC, a > week later, his response was: > > 'Yes, I had heard that.' Hee! That's perfect... ;) There is a potential canon idea being kicked around by yours truly. To wit: if there's enough Disturbance in an area, the Symphony becomes chaotic. Songs will not work properly and there might be other effects. If anyone wants to playtest it (as rare as the situation is), try it with the following rules: For every 100 Disturbance in an area, _any_ use of the Symphony is at -1. Things that normally don't require a roll now have a roll of 12 before the penalty is applied. This includes Songs, resonances, attunments, going celestial, travelling on Tethers, etc. Tell me how it works! (The actual proposal I put to SJ and crew is that just Songs are affected...) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:01:41 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> New to In Nomine >Just this last week I purchased In Nomine (white hardback) >and Heaven and Hell. Excellent stuff. Hello. >So, anyhow, I had a question (or two). > >First, how great a variance in forms is there in celestials? > Can Lilim be colors other than green? Could a Mercurian >have hawk legs? No. There can be no variation on the appearances of angels and demons. Each band and choir is given a -specific appearance-, which relates to the symbolism embodied by that choir or band. To change a group's appearance is to change the group, the game and the universe. You should only give players in minor issues in their appearance; i.e. the color of their hallows, what animals the cherubs are etc. Or you (as the GM) may wish to simply choice the players' appearances. A Mericuin could only have hawk legs if its last vessel was a hawk. >Second, how are new demons/angels/spirits formed? Are they >spontaniously generated by the celestial realms or >consiously created by Superiors? I've got an idea for a >mechanic for this, but was wondering if one already existed. The souls under the authority of the Princes and Archangels generate Essence daily. This essence is collected and "solidified" into Forces to build new angels and such. This is another important part of the game and any change to it could threaten game balance. Look for details in the "How to Make Love to an Angel" sourcebook. Due out Real Soon Now. >I've got a question regarding melding In Nomine with another >game of a similar bent, but I'm not certain it will be well >received, so I'll put it on the back-burner for now. Many people on the list abandoned other games besides In Nomine. Others work inside other role-playing groups, trying to convert them to In Nomine. In any case your idea my be a step in the right direction, but we seek nothing less than converting all role-players to In Nomine, not some half baked compromise. >Anyhow, once again SJGames hits the jackpot. > >Chris Nichols That is correct, citzen. - -Jesse remember that, folks: trust your government, or skinheads will find you and kill you... ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #582 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.