From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jan 22 09:57:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22234 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:57:39 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA25323 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:51:20 -0600 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:51:20 -0600 Message-Id: <199801221551.JAA25323@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #583 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 583 In this digest: Re: IN> By Any Other Name re: IN>Seven Re: IN> Vessel bits Re: IN> Vessel bits Re: IN> By Any Other Name Re: IN> By Any Other Name Re: IN> New to In Nomine Re: IN> Who's God now? IN>White Hardback...and other hard to find books Re: IN> Who's God now? IN> remove Re: IN> Who's God now? Re: IN> New to In Nomine Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament Re: IN> New to In Nomine IN> My own private Hell IN> Demons and Cheerleaders (Real Story!) Re: Re: IN> Raphael Re: IN> Who's God now? Re: IN>Lying Re: IN> By Any Other Name Re: IN> By Any Other Name Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament Re: IN> New to In Nomine Re: IN> Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking Re: IN> By Any Other Name IN>Origin of Laurence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:26:05 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Hart, Joanna wrote: > I totally agree. Like, how many people are using any of the superiors who > didn't appear in the original sourcebook? I don't have NM, or I'd probly use Fleurity and Chris. I have H&H, but I don't use Zadkiel because she is *boring* (and Johab (see below) can fully replace her; what he doesn't have of Zadkiel's, Novalis does), and I use Mammon, but understate him a little bit--he is definitely a weaker Prince in my game...even Izrann (see below) is more powerful. What I use a LOT of is non-canon Superiors. I've run across a lot of bad ones on INC, but so many great ones as well, and I have no qualms about using them. I often rewrite them just a bit (rephrase things, more often), or change an attunement here and there, but all the ones I've stolen have fit in very well in my campaign. On the bright side, I use Bethanel (Cities), Charon (Death), Johab (Salvation), and Raphael (Healing). Yes, you heard me: Raphael. In my game, he was never the AA of Knowledge and it was the AA of Unity that went up against Legion and got wasted. And yes, he's a Cherub. :-) On the dark side, I use a lot more...something about the dark side seems to inspire people to new lows : Beezlebub (Beasts), Boss Smiley (Politics - the author copped the name from a comic; I thought about changing it, but it just seemed to fit so well I kept it), Fezek (Wrath - who *would* overlap Furfur a bit, but I don't use Furfur so there :P), Izrann (Cities - actually a Duke, not a Prince), Jadis (Winter - a Lilim Prince...why aren't there more of those?), Mephistopheles (The Deal), Nergal (Sickness), Vagarog (Recklessness), and Xexistanai (Pain). Several of these Superiors I like better than the ones in the IN book. A few made their Servitors just a bit too powerful or too weak, but that was easily fixed. Right now, half my party is serving non-canon Superiors and it's working out fine. I've had to expand Heaven and Hell a bit with new principalities and cathedrals, but it's well worth it. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:50:03 -0600 From: ehp Subject: re: IN>Seven Kevin Walsh wrote: > > Sloth - Ralph > > He's not in my IN canon... >Well, no, that was my little joke. For those who don't know, there was a funny write-up of Ralph, Demon Prince of Apathy, some months back. REALLY sticking to canon, Nybbas is about the best candidate. >On the angelic side, it is very hard to find a candidate for Archangel of Temperance; all the Superiors are pretty much flaming whackos, a natural result of their Word-centered personalities. Earl And Another... >> >Temperance Gabriel >> >> Gabriel hardly seems to embody Temperance. >Now Temperament, on the other hand... I was relying more on the original definition of temperance, and also more on my own understanding of Gabby. Temperance refers to strengthening something by alteation of temperature. Heat or cold, exposure to a normally destructive force that yeilds superior strength. Seemed kind of appropriate in the IN Nomine write up. She is Divine fire after all... But I have felt about as uncomfortable with the write up of Gabby as another person wrote they were uncomfortable with the absence of Mammon. To think that the angel directly given more references in any holy book than any other should turn out in IN to be so ... well ... mad ... bespeaks quite a bit of the 'darkness' of the canonical universe. But more to point, if I had to pick another for temperance, it would probably be Novalis. Evan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:50:12 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Querent wrote: > Ok, a Celestial vessel is for the most part identical to a normal > Corporeal being. However, they don't have all of the Corporeal > traits. They don't need to eat, sleep, or drink. They DO need to > breathe. Ok, what about other things? (I know, you were hoping no > one would ask, but here it comes.) > > A: WHAT DOES AN AUTOPSY SHOW? Anything? With no need to eat or > drink, is any waste produced? Would a Celestial's corpse be noticably > clean and devoid of any waste or imperfections? Does a Celestial > corpse decay? All the celestials in my game eat. Not as often as humans, perhaps, but they rarely go more than a few days without food--it's just easier to debate about a strategy over a big pile of pizza. And yes, they have to 'go', later...I let 'em hold it for as long as they like. OBTW, I'd say the corpse would decay, and would not necessarily be *perfect*. > B: DO CELESTIALS GET TIRED? They never need sleep, do they need to > rest? If a Celestial walks down the road, does he ever have to stop? > (other than to avoid suspicion) If the Celestial is actually exerting > himself (e.g. chasing someone on foot, lifting a heavy object, etc...) > does he get fatigued, or can he be pushed to his limits indefinitely? IMHO, no. They don't get tired and can run at full speed for years on end if they like. > C: DO CELESTIALS SUFFER ILL EFFECTS FROM HEAT (OR THE LACK OF HEAT)? > (I know intense heat or cold will hurt them, I'm referring to ambient > heat in given environments, not blowtorches and liquid oxygen.) Do > Celestials ever sweat? I know they *can* sweat, but if one didn't > think about it, would they? Will a Celestial ever suffer from > dehydration as the water in his body tries to evaporate? Would it > even evaporate? Will a Celestial freeze to death or sustain > hypothermia? What if he's walking around the arctic in a T-shirt and > shorts for a month? I thought this was canon, that celestials DO begin to get uncomfortable in extreme heat or cold, and can be harmed by it at extreme levels. > D: DO THE CELESTIALS HAVE DNA IN THEIR CELLS? Can a Celestial be > cloned? Would the clone be a Celestial vessel? If so, would it > mature to the vessel's state and then cease aging, or would it not > develop at all? Would the clone be a human? If so, would the human > be ordinary, or would it have some of the divine as well? (e.g. > soldier material) IMHO: Yes. Yes. No, a human. N/A. Yes. [Insert rule of GM's Whim here.] > E: DO CELESTIALS SHED CELLS? They don't age...do their cells? Do > they shed skin and hair cells? If not, then bacteria will have > nothing to feed on, and they will never have body odor. Does oxygen > decay the cells of a vessel as it does other organics? If so, without > eating or drinking, do these cells get replenished, or does the vessel > waste away? I thought they could age if they wanted to...otherwise a long-term Role/6 would be hard to maintain for a few decades. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:54:28 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Vessel bits On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > The vessels are very, very close to normal > bodies. It still hasn't been decided if there are > very subtle differences that can be detected by > intense scientific analysis. Be VERY careful about deciding the answer to that one...today's "intense, laboratory-required analysis" can be tomorrow's "handheld scanner". If it's possible AT ALL to detect a vessel with technology, Vapula will be issuing the equipment within the year, and humans will have it a few decades later... Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:28:02 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name In a message dated 1/21/98 2:28:03 PM, Pkitty@cris.com writes: >Jadis (Winter - a Lilim Prince...why aren't there more of those?) Two responses: 1) Did you steal her from Narnia? If you did, one of my PC's (whose word is Narnians) is going to be either peeved or pleased... 2) I avoided lilim as Superiors for the simple reason that their 'inbred' service to Freedom makes it hard for them to get there. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:59:33 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, MarkDEddy wrote: > > In a message dated 1/21/98 2:28:03 PM, Pkitty@cris.com writes: > > >Jadis (Winter - a Lilim Prince...why aren't there more of those?) > > Two responses: > 1) Did you steal her from Narnia? If you did, one of my PC's (whose word is > Narnians) is going to be either peeved or pleased... As stated already, I stole her from INC. The URL is http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Jadis.html for anyone who cares. Austin George Loomis wrote her up. Apparently, he stole (well, interpreted) her from the Narnia series. Damn good job, too. > 2) I avoided lilim as Superiors for the simple reason that their 'inbred' > service to Freedom makes it hard for them to get there. True, but quite a few choose to exercise real freedom by distancing themselves from their Mother (and her word) as much as possible, I'd imagine. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:45:05 -0600 From: Aaron Subject: Re: IN> New to In Nomine > > Just this last week I purchased In Nomine (white hardback) > > and Heaven and Hell. Excellent stuff. > Grrr, Wish I coulda found the White Hardback. Im stuck with the > demonic black hardback.. Angels are /much/ cooler than demons :) Ever notice how the white hardback kinda looks like a Catholic HighSchool Yearbook for some strange reason? Kinda freaky... i actually had a friend make that mistake, until he opened it and came face to face with the Habbalah page. put him off solid food for a week. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:50:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Who's God now? > > I always thought that the one and only God is the Gamesmaster. > He is the only one that can make Raphael be both Elohim and Cherubim :-) > Except Yves, of course. ObLooneyTheory: Kronos and Yves are the same person, who is also known as God. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:01:07 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: IN>White Hardback...and other hard to find books HELP! My favorite gaming store, Darkholder Comics & Games in the Seattle area has been around for years. The problem? Games and comics both are in a slump, and the store's not making as much as it used to. I currently live in Portland, but go to Seattle every so often to buy books from them. I felt bad when I bough the APG somewhere else... Anyway, they have a few of each hardback edition of In Nomine on their shelves, as well as a few other books. If you're looking for those hard to find items, please e-mail me, and I'll see if they have them. They'll ship them anywhere in the U.S. Support my local game store! (After all, yours didn't have what you're looking for!) - ---Aaron wrote: > > Grrr, Wish I coulda found the White Hardback. Im stuck with the > > demonic black hardback. == --Querent USELESS FACT: The hominid skeleton known as "Lucy" was named after the Beatles' "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds", the song that was playing when the discovery was made. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:01:15 +1100 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Chris Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> Who's God now? >> >> I always thought that the one and only God is the Gamesmaster. >> He is the only one that can make Raphael be both Elohim and Cherubim :-) >> >Except Yves, of course. >ObLooneyTheory: Kronos and Yves are the same person, who is also known as >God. God's odd thoughts manifest! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:31:39 EST From: DSChenin Subject: IN> remove Remove from list DSChenin@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:10:02 -0600 (CST) From: Dataweaver Subject: Re: IN> Who's God now? On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Chris Stevenson wrote: > >> > >> I always thought that the one and only God is the Gamesmaster. > >> He is the only one that can make Raphael be both Elohim and Cherubim :-) > >> > >Except Yves, of course. > >ObLooneyTheory: Kronos and Yves are the same person, who is also known as > >God. > > God's odd thoughts manifest! Umm... if I read Heaven and Hell correctly, you could very well be right... - ---- Jonathan Lang ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver --------- Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing, FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer. submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:22:30 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> New to In Nomine At 16:32 21/01/98 -0500, you wrote: > >two angels (or two demons... even an angel and >a demon) can contribute forces and a superior can make an >angel with them (adding more forces from the symphony if >there arnt enough donated.) > I was wondering about that. I'd have thought that really up to 9 angels/ demons could be involved in donating forces /parenting. It'd be a nightmare of a family but hey, it could happen ;) jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:53:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > The only problem I see is that Yonder Demon Prince would have to have some > sort of Destinylike ability to see the future. Solution a) Kronos has a sense of humour too. Christianity is doubled-edged as far as both he and Yves are concerned. Worth the risk? > He would have to: > > * Meet John the Baptist and hang out with the Essenes. > * Know that John would die at the hands of Herod before Passover. > * Figure out a way to piss of the Pharisees yet still get killed in the > Roman manner. > * His disciples would have to carry on his name long after he died. Solution b) John and the disciples, possibly Herod too, were plants. This was a joke worth taking some time over. As for execution, the relevant crime for which crucifixion was the punishment is sedition. Bit of careful persuasion by advisors to Pilate and/or the High Priest (name escapes me), would do the trick. Plus Barabas must have had something special: group effect Song of Attraction? I tend to assume that a DP can set this sort of thing up when he puts his mind to it. > Hmmm. A sick and twisted joke. A really sick and twisted joke that > really got out of hand in a really bad way. Think of what Dominic and > Laurence would think if they knew. Well, OK, I admit I didn't mean it. Can't be discounted though. Ouch, Mr. Dominic Sir, please put down that... Heavenly Judgement attunement On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Querent wrote: > Ordinarily I'd say this is pretty strict, but then, so is a 7 essence > point cost for an attunement. The character IMC whose player has read and learned the rules has cottoned on that as long as Celestials stick to what they are good at, they don't use much essence. He is therefore often quite happy to blow, say, 8 essence on his Malakim resonance to scope out someone he thinks is dodgy. He can only do it once a week, but so what? I just count m'self lucky he isn't a Seraph. Same guy once played an Ofan(ite) with an acrobatic dodge of 30, and a 'pistols' of 20ish. Oh my word, but discord can be abusable if the GM lets it. Luckily, it wasn't me: my Impudite of Kobal, in service to Kronos, pretending to be a Mercurian of Eli, loved every moment, especially when the nutter went 'Angry' and attacked _Michael_... Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:04:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> New to In Nomine On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Jo Hart wrote: > I was wondering about that. I'd have thought that really up to 9 angels/ > demons could be involved in donating forces /parenting. It'd be a nightmare > of a family but hey, it could happen ;) If it's that easy, why not get 18 together? I can't see Baal missing the opportunity to sweep the dregs of some remnants and/or general scum together to make that super-combat-hack he's always been dreaming of. I do mean 'why not' as in 'what is the reason', rather than 'I think there isn't one'. 'Rubbish in, rubbish out' springs to mind first as an answer. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:18:33 -0800 From: Armand Subject: IN> My own private Hell I haven't yet started an IN campaign. All of the superiors involved seemed a littled more involved than I wanted to get into at the time. (I run three other systems and play in two others regularly) Also, I just couldn't get beyond turning the superiors into cheese characters. (A little wine, a little cheese and you have a picnic. A lot of wine, a lot of cheese and you get a fat guy with bad breath.) However, I think that the demonic superiors are swinging into focus. To see my view of them, you have to have seen the Kids in the Hall's "Brain Candy". After viewing it, you might share my epiphany that Don is Lucifer. Dave Foley's Marv lend itself well to Asmodeus, and Cisco would be great for Nybbas. If you felt the need to include Beleth, Natalie would fit in well (not a lot of air time, but some great lines). Now, I just need a way to keep the archangels from being either too cold or too nice... Armand, Yet another angel sauntering vaguely downward. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:54:11 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: IN> Demons and Cheerleaders (Real Story!) Hey, y'all a friend of mine came across this and thought I might like it. I think you might find it interesting as well. No attempts are being made to challenge copyright in any way. >N.Y. Girl Killed Over Demon > >Accusation-Police > >Reuters >19-JAN-98 > > SAYVILLE, N.Y. (Reuters) - A New York woman was arrested >Monday and accused of suffocating her teenage cheerleader daughter >because she thought the girl was possessed by demons, police said. > > An aunt found the body of 17-year-old Charity Miranda late >Sunday night, lying at the bottom of a staircase in the family's suburban >home in Sayville, New York, police said. > > The girl's mother and 20-year-old sister were chanting and >praying over the body. Charity Miranda had been suffocated with a plastic >bag, said Detective Lt. John Gierasch of the Suffolk County Police >Department. > > ``She believed that her daughter was possessed by demons, >and this was an effort to get rid of those demons,'' he said. > > The woman had been trying to exorcise the demons but gave >up and decided to kill the girl, he said. > > ``A decision was made that she must die,'' Gierasch said. >The victim was a senior in high school and a cheerleader, police said. Her >older sister, a college student, and her 15-year-old sister, who was >believed to have witnessed the killing, were also cheerleaders, police >said. > > The mother, Vivian Miranda, and the 20-year-old sister >Serena were arrested and charged with second-degree murder. > > The mother had become increasingly interested in Santeria, >a mixture of ancient African-based rituals and Christianity. But Charity >Miranda apparently refused to go along with her mother's beliefs, police >said. > > The girl's father died just a week ago, police said. The >mother said at first that the girl had fallen down the stairs, but police >determined she had been suffocated. > > Neighbors in the middle-class town about 45 miles east of >New York City were stunned. > ``They're three lovely daughters,'' said one woman. >''They're all-American, clean-cut cheerleader kids. It's a big shock.'' > > Copyright 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd Check out the PBEM In Nomine: Soldiers of Linn webpage! "And all the time the joke is that the word 'mine' in its fully possessive sense cannot be uttered by a human being about anything. In the long run either Our Father or the Enemy will say 'mine' of each thing that exits, and specially of each man." -Screwtape (from The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 01:26 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Re: IN> Raphael [IQJason:] >And provides for all sorts of appropriate puns. Lili Langtree. Lili Munster. >"Pictures of Lili" by the Who... and, if there's an appropriate Demon of >Shopping Malls, she'd be the Lili of the Valley. Curiously enough, I'm running a IOU/In Nomine game at GenCon this year with the title "Lilim of the Valley".... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:13:25 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: IN> Who's God now? On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > I always thought that the one and only God is the Gamesmaster. > > He is the only one that can make Raphael be both Elohim and Cherubim :-) > Except Yves, of course. > ObLooneyTheory: Kronos and Yves are the same person, who is also known as > God. Without saying anything either way, go read Heaven and Hell for the full (somewhat disappointing) scoop... Joe - ------ Big Brother's watching? Learn to become Invisible. "Superheroes are a virus that needs to be exterminated."-- Mark Hughes How I waste my time: http://acs1.bu.edu:8001/~arie/rpg.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:50:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN>Lying > > > A Balseraph totally believes his lies, correct? A > > balseraph doesn't consider his lies lying. Also, unlike the > > Habbalah, a balseraph doesn't maintain delusions of being an > > angel - so CONSCIENTIOUS lying shouldn't offend it as it would > > a seraph. Therefore, a balseraph with the lying skill could > > delude itself in preparation to lying and believe something > > false, then decide to lie and tell the truth - but it would > > show up as lying to a detect lies scan :):). This kind of "am > > I lying" double-whammy could be all kinds of fun if you were > > trying to delude a seraph or something. You'd never be able to > > trust your detect lies abilities again :):). > > You're a really weird person, Dan. We'll kill you last. > > I had to read this three times to get it. And then I decided you're > really weird. You should NOT be allowed to play a Balseraph. There > should be some sort of law. :) > Actually, it'd probably need a special attunement, because otherwise it's dissonant. Plus it's very scary. Maybe Kobal should be able to give that attunement to his Balseraphs instead of whatever rite they get? It's not as bad as a Habbalah who's actually right about why she's in hell, though. (Yes, I have created such an NPC.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:00:25 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name Em wrote: >Even then, I feel that 'canon' characters detract from the GM's freedom. >Settings are fabulous, (man, do we need settings something fierce) rule >expansions are good. Superiors and too many NPCs are not. Good point/s. I'm quite happy with canon characters as long as they aren't power-grabbing ;-) What I mean by that is that they don't have totally defined areas of 'control' or 'authority', as that might conflict with something else I'm doing -- if they are interesting, vibrant characters with well-defined motivations that suggest lots of interesting plot hooks to me then I'm all for them! So I guess I'm saying that I'm not all that interested in seeing word-bound NPCs, or at least not overdefined ones -- but j.random.triad or j.random.demon-of-theft might definitely see some use if it was cute, persuasive or performed well on the casting couch. I like to design scenarios with the potential for additional encounters built in, depending on how things go, because I often wing things and it can help to keep me/ players focussed. Settings however, are extremely cool. My model for good settings is the CoC 1920's Cairo sourcebook. Its well-researched, has a ton of information about the place and lots of plot hooks but isn't as tightly defined as a module would be -- and it has a good index and list of references at the back. I'm sort of in two minds about whether I'd like to see a London setting for IN - -- I know a lot of people use it but speaking as a native Londoner who is passionate about the place, I probably get a bit too possessive if it isn't done exactly the way I'd do it ;-) (lets leave out WW with their classic comment that London is so foggy that a vampire can go out during the day) The other thing I find with settings is that a few paragraphs of mood-text can be worth their weight in statted NPCs. As a reader, its more entertaining and also more likely to be inspiring. I always thought the best thing about V:tM was the fiction in the prelude, just for sheer atmosphere. Just for the record, if I was doing it there would be some notion of an overall theme/ background setting which wouldn't be too defined, then a megaton of information and maps and descriptions of interesting snippets on buildings/ (mortal) people/ politics/ places/ history with as many plothooks thrown in as possible so that you coud just dip into it for ideas, even if you ignored the top level theme. Would try to give a good dose of the London portrayed in Good Omens/ Hellrazor/ Neverwhere. Space allowing, I'd add in some skeleton campaign ideas for some of the different IN moods (ie. epic/ gritty/ satire). A setting is not a module. Also I'd stick in a nice big map of the london underground so that even if the rest turned out to be junk, it would still be useful. I'd be interested in New York as well tho ;) jo - --------------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G.K. Chesterton http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:16:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name > At 15:49 21/01/98 +0000, you wrote: > > > >Beleth causes fear because it's fun. Her Servitors cause fear because > >it's fun. > > I'd had the impression they went out and caused fear in others to hide the > fact they were so insecure.. kind of like the Wizard of Oz. > That as well. But most of her Servitors are undoubtedly sadists. I see it as being like the Habbalah. How many of them really believe that they are truly worthy? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:29:22 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > For every 100 Disturbance in an area, _any_ > use of the Symphony is at -1. Things that normally > don't require a roll now have a roll of 12 before the > penalty is applied. This includes Songs, resonances, > attunments, going celestial, travelling on Tethers, > etc. Tell me how it works! Hmm...in one of the campaigns that I'm playing in, that would be bad. The echoes of that million-point disturbance are going to be floating around the world for quite some time to come. (I can see an awful lot of Soldiers of Hell settling old scores.) What about those who go into Trauma as a result of the actions that caused the disturbance? (I can see Force-disbanding occuring with the sort of disturbance I'm specifying, which would kind of be a pity considering that that's my most experienced character.) Anyway, the moral of the story is: Don't Use Nukes. Just Say No. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:49:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament > > Same guy once played an Ofan(ite) with an acrobatic dodge of 30, and a > 'pistols' of 20ish. Oh my word, but discord can be abusable if the GM lets > it. Skills can't be higher than six, n'est-ce pas? Loads of my characters are heavily Discordant, and the problem gets worse with each successive demon I make. (None of my angels are Discordant, but I'm considering it for an Elohite/Eloah of Fire I'm going to make.) Some of the intersections are interesting, like Paranoid and Cowardly. Or Aura and Bound. Of course, I'm the sort of person who takes Murderous Discord in order to buy those extra points in Cooking, so it's not too bad. Also, there seems to be an inverse proportion between the amount of Discord a character has and the amount of their highest skill values. My 10 Discord Calabite has _one_ skill at level 4 (and three Songs). My 3 Discord Habbalah had 1 more skill at level 4 than he did, and the same number of Songs at level 4. There are patterns in the way I take Discord. My Calabim always seem to get Aura. Servitors of Death tend to get Bound. Habbalah who are combat capable get Berserk. Those who don't get Cowardly. My one and only Balseraph has lots of Corporeal Discord. His modified Agility is 1 now. Also, my Servitors of War are far noisier than my Servitors of Death. Damn strange, that. Luckily, it wasn't me: my Impudite of Kobal, in service to Kronos, > pretending to be a Mercurian of Eli, loved every moment, especially when > the nutter went 'Angry' and attacked _Michael_... > I hope he was put down as he deserved. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:09:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> New to In Nomine > > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Jo Hart wrote: > > > I was wondering about that. I'd have thought that really up to 9 angels/ > > demons could be involved in donating forces /parenting. It'd be a nightmare > > of a family but hey, it could happen ;) > > If it's that easy, why not get 18 together? I can't see Baal missing the > opportunity to sweep the dregs of some remnants and/or general scum > together to make that super-combat-hack he's always been dreaming of. > Baal doesn't want super-combat-hacks whose loyalty (and indeed competence) hasn't been proven. They might start thinking Bad Thoughts(tm) about how they're so cool they can do whatever they want. Anyway, general scum are there for a reason (he can't find remnants). Someone has to do the Celestial equivalent of digging the drainage ditches, and it might as well be them. They're also great as punching bags for his more important Servitors. There are Morale issues at stake as well. Someone who has succeeded in elevating themselves from snotling status to becoming a genuine demon is going to be a tad upset to find some rookie know-nothing punk suddenly getting 18 Forces, especially if (s)he has to give one up to do it. And they have a valid point as well. Someone who has managed the difficult trick of becoming a demon through advancement is well worth their weight in Forces. They've already demonstrated initiative, courage, competence, and loyalty. Making them bitter is inefficient resource management, and I'd imagine that Baal is death on that. Consider how much he hates Malphas, after all. As a punishment, Force-stripping is almost certainly used, and is quite possibly the major source of new demons/demonlings in Gehenna. But again, it's a more effective punishment to rip away two or three Forces from an incompetent Servitor than just the one. > I do mean 'why not' as in 'what is the reason', rather than 'I think there > isn't one'. 'Rubbish in, rubbish out' springs to mind first as an answer. > In addition, it may well not be so easy, especially since demons have their own symphonies which might make their Forces slightly more incompatible with each other than would be the case for Angels. Drawing Forces from several different symphonies in order to fuse them together sounds like a nightmare to me, and probably not worth the effort. Of course, it has been repeatedly stated that the Demon Princes prefer hordes to quality, and creating Uber-Servitors from "birth" is certainly not favouring this principle. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:32:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking > (Nice try, Kevin. Beth, however, seems more related to Asmodeous than > Andre, though.. Here's my shot) > You will observe that I made no comment on Beth's personality. Besides, I think that the true importance of Nitpicking in the Symphony is that it be utterly non-constructive, and serve only to annoy. In that spirit... (It's Asmodeus actually.) > BETH, Princess of Nitpicking > 'the world isnt that! this refrence on page 562 clearly states that > it couldnt even be anything even remotly like that.' > "isn't...reference...couldn't...remotely" And shouldn't it be "The world isn't like that!", rather than 'the world isnt that'? > Beth and his Servitors are the Lawyers of Hell. I know sexuality is optional for Superiors, but textual consistency, please. > Hell-- She gets along very well with Asmodeus, who values her > abilitys. She is widly feared, however, for her Balseraphs often > serve closly with Asmodeus' as *hells lawyers*. What could be > more feared than the lawyers of hell? "abilities" and "wildly" > > Above all Beths' Beth is plural? Hmm...a Kyriotate Djinn? > debate. A debate soo well that afterward Lucifer gave her the > word she bears proudly to this day. Shouldn't that be so good? > DISSONANCE: > Servitors of Beth generate dissonance if they refrain from correcting > what they percieve as an error on the part of anyone-- even their > dearest friends. > 'I' before 'e' except after 'c'. Well, you wouldn't want me to be dissonant, would you? (Note that I'm refraining from commenting on duplicate errors. You can take them as read and notified.) > > DJINN > Djinn working for Beth can, on a successful perception roll, divine > a page number (and, at highter check digits, even quote abit from "higher" and "a bit" > the book) of a book that will disprove the arguement of anybody-- "argument" > > LILIM > Beths' Lilim can look in someones eyes, and make a resonance > roll (perception based). They can tell any doubts that person has-- It sounds much better if you say "discern" rather than "tell". > the time there done you're life will be the Shedims idea of > 'perfection'. Do you really wanna know what a Shedims idea of > perfection is?! > "they're" I note that you have failed to nitpick my own proposals. I will seek to atone for my lapse. In the first line of the Dissonance section, it should read "These demons stay verbally close to their victims". In the original text, the word "close" is missing. In the second installment, I promised to include Beth's rites. However, those rites were not included in the final draft. Do you reckon that counts as performing a nitpicking rite? Anyway, the real reason I didn't make any description of Beth is that she could so easily nitpick it, and send her Calabim and Habbalah after me for my gross incompetence. The reason I modelled the attunements on Lust was because I was looking for powerful attunements, and Lust's attunements were the munchiest I'd seen. (Having just seen Furfur's attunements, I've changed my opinion on the matter. Habbalah of Furfur are just insanely powerful.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:29:32 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> By Any Other Name Pkitty@cris.com writes: >Jadis (Winter - a Lilim Prince...why aren't there more of those?) MarkDEddy wrote: > 1) Did you steal her from Narnia? If you did, one of my PC's > (whose word is Narnians) is going to be either peeved or pleased... If this is the White Witch of "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe," shouldn't she be styled a Lilim Princess? Mark, are you running an IN/Narnia crossover? Is Narnia out in the Marches or a parallel world (as originally conceived) or what? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:42:39 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: IN>Origin of Laurence Wait a sec...something just occured to me... In the book of Judges, (I don't remember where, I'm sure someone here can help) there is a passage about Joshua walking along and coming upon a man standing there with sword drawn. The man identifies himself as an angel, and "captain of the host". Obviously, this seems the most obvious origin of Laurence, but then I pondered... This guy is claiming the mantle of captain of the host long before 745, before Uriel's ascension, and before Laurence came to power. Hmmmm... Is there a cute answer, or is this something a mortal just wasn't meant to comprehend? == --Querent USELESS FACT: The hominid skeleton known as "Lucy" was named after the Beatles' "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds", the song that was playing when the discovery was made. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? 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