From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Oct 12 10:25:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20520 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:25:19 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id JAA23498 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:28:38 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:28:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199810121428.JAA23498@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #974 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, October 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 974 In this digest: Re: IN> Shedim Re: IN> Shedim RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? IN> Seraphim of Judgement and Servitor Attunements IN> Question on Shedim IN> Song of Possession Re: IN> Seraphim of Judgement and Servitor Attunements Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Mortals using Songs IN> Re: IN- Shedim IN> Re: IN- New rules for Impudities. IN> Re: IN- [FICTION] Harvesting Forces IN> Re: Azazel and the Seirim (was Re:IN- Shedites of the Game) IN> A Tether too many? Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Mortals using Songs Re: IN> A Tether too many? Re: IN> Song of Possession / Dark Dream (WAS: RE: Shedim) IN> Word-bound redeems and Word is already taken... Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? IN> In Nomine Diceless ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Oct 98 12:06 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Shedim >> > > 1. In the song of possession, if the vessel is killed during the >> > > possession, the individual that is possessing suffers trauma? And the >> > > possessed? >> >> Just remembered something, THIS HAPPENS IN DARK DREAM! Do stories count >> as cannon? If so it seems that, for the possessor at least, there are >> no ill effects, Marcus just snapped back to his waiting body (and a nice >> cold brew), with no ill effects (dissonance, discord) mentioned and >> certainly no trauma. Doesn't say what happened to Adam though... ... > Hmmmm... maybe the 'effect' is a load of >ethereal hits. He did make sure to have some >comfort supplies on hand after his trick. This seems like a fairly plausible effect. I.e., it's not fun to do this, and you may leave yourself vulnerable to mental damage (which will cause Ethereal Discord if you overdo it). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 98 12:09 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Shedim > What happens if a Sedite attempts to possess a body already possessed by >a Kyrio? They contest for the body, with the Kyrios resisting with its Will. If it gets kicked out, it may attempt to re-possess. Or if one has more Forces than the other, the one with higher Forces maybe just wins. (If the Kyrio was the higher-Force one, the Shedite would be trying to possess someone with higher Forces, which is not allowed.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:52:03 -0400 From: "Matthew Stein" Subject: RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? I'd suggest the following: Boston Harbor Tea Party (yes, the ship off Congress Street) for a Tether to the Wind (sort of - it's an Ofanite kind of thing, I think). The Children's Museum would be perfect tether for Christopher. Let me think what else.... Whatever Archangel covers "Learning" or "Knowledge" (Yves, I suppose) would probably have a tether at the Boston Athenaeum (it's by the State House; membership only, really old books and a very impressive library). In some ways, I think that Cambridge Common could be a probable tether for Lawrence, as it's where George Washington took command of the Continental Army. I'd put a Tether to Andrealphus on Lansdowne Street (by Fenway Park) - all those clubs, "lust" of some sort must arrive (be it for alcohol, drugs, sex, what-have-you). The Game could have a Tether where ever Socko and Benzetti were hanged (for historical purposes, the following occurred. Two Italian "gentlemen," Socko & Benzetti, were accused of robbing a bank, found guilty, and hanged in Boston in the 1920's. However, later evidence has shown that the evidence used to convict was possibly wrong, and besides, mostly circumstantial - and from what I remember, that's part of the Game). I almost want to suggest the Longwood Medical Area for a Tether to the technological demon dude (what's his name and word? The one who experiments?) - all the experimental treatments at Mass General, Beth Israel, etc. Dominic almost has to have a Tether at Harvard Law, BC Law, BU Law, or Suffolk Law -- these are good lawyers, who want to do the right thing, and find the truth. Finally, I'd give Kobal (he's the Prince of Dark Humor, right?) a Tether at Harvard Business School, just because (no offense to anyone here), I'd say that an MBA is a piece of paper saying you know something everyone should understand - the entire concept's a joke no one has gotten yet (and HBS, as the best in the world at "Business Administration") would be home to that. Or, if you don't like that, use MIT's Sloan School - the idea of "mathematically analyzing business" must be joke, because no one has mathematical formulae that actually can predict human behavior or there results thereof. (Of course, he could just have a Tether at the Tomb of the Unknown Tool, where way too many MIT hacks were thought of.) Just my ideas. Matt. [Angel of Weird Ideas, servant of Eli, kind of kicking it for now.] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:12:32 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > In our Boston game, *Concord* Green is a Freedom Tether. Lexington > might be a War Tether, but I use the USS Constitution ("Old Ironsides") > for that. There are enough war-related sites in Boston to have a > plausible one for Laurence, though the Revolution wasn't really > Laurence's sort of combat, at least in Boston. His people may use the > War Tethers there, anyway. The Bunker Hill Monument is the other > obvious Tether-possibility; I don't currently use it. Why do you think the Revolutionary War wasn't Laurence's kind of war? It was primarily fought by well-disciplined troops on both sides. The militias had a distressing tendancy to break and run under any pressure at all. Most Revoultionary War sites that become Tethers would be far more suited to the Sword than War. Just my 2 cents... Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page. The Gaming Ghetto, at In Nomine: The Last Days, at Walking the Planes, at - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:31:37 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Matthew Stein wrote: > I'd suggest the following: > > Boston Harbor Tea Party (yes, the ship off Congress Street) for a Tether to > the Wind (sort of - it's an Ofanite kind of thing, I think). The Children's > Museum would be perfect tether for Christopher. Let me think what else.... Alternatly, it would make a good Tether to Factions. The Sons of Liberty were, after all, an IRA style terrorist organization. Terrorism seems to fit Factions better than anyone else I can think of. > Whatever Archangel covers "Learning" or "Knowledge" (Yves, I suppose) would > probably have a tether at the Boston Athenaeum (it's by the State House; > membership only, really old books and a very impressive library). Revelations, maybe. But the membership only requirement may preclude that... > In some ways, I think that Cambridge Common could be a probable tether for > Lawrence, as it's where George Washington took command of the Continental > Army. It does sound like a good choice, assuming it's well-known enough. > I almost want to suggest the Longwood Medical Area for a Tether to the > technological demon dude (what's his name and word? The one who > experiments?) - all the experimental treatments at Mass General, Beth > Israel, etc. Vapula, although I don't know enough about the experiments to comment. If they were done with a serious effort to improve medical care, then Creation may be a better choice. > Finally, I'd give Kobal (he's the Prince of Dark Humor, right?) a Tether at > Harvard Business School, just because (no offense to anyone here), I'd say > that an MBA is a piece of paper saying you know something everyone should > understand - the entire concept's a joke no one has gotten yet (and HBS, as > the best in the world at "Business Administration") would be home to that. > Or, if you don't like that, use MIT's Sloan School - the idea of > "mathematically analyzing business" must be joke, because no one has > mathematical formulae that actually can predict human behavior or there > results thereof. (Of course, he could just have a Tether at the Tomb of the > Unknown Tool, where way too many MIT hacks were thought of.) LOL! I like it. Being serious, though, Kobal and Marc may be fighting over it (it has Tether potential but hasn't become one yet, and both sides want it when it happens). Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page. The Gaming Ghetto, at In Nomine: The Last Days, at Walking the Planes, at - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:48:44 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: IN> Seraphim of Judgement and Servitor Attunements Hi, While talking to a player today, a future Seraph of Dominic, a few of Dominic's extra Servitor attunements struck me as rather redundant. For instance: > Divine Mediation > ================ > Servitors with this attunement can end a dispute between two > individuals by listening to the Symphony to tell which of them is in > the wrong. > Advocate > ======== > A Servitor with the Advocate attunement can attune himself to a human > or celestial [...] the Advocate can tell whether any statement made > about the subject of the attunement is true by making a Perception > roll. Both of these attunements seem to give a limited scope Seraphic attunement, which always succeeds with a check of 6. This is fine for a non-Seraph; for a Seraph of Dominic, it's less attractive. A Seraph of Dominic gets to add his Celestial Forces to the check digit of a resonance roll; even if this only applies to angels being formally investigated by the Celestial Inquisition, these attunements would mostly apply in such circumstances anyway. A Seraph with 4 Celestial Forces and 10 Perception (not unreasonable) therefore has a 3/36 (the chance of not rolling a 10 or less on 2 dice) + 33/36*1/6 (the chance of rolling a 1 on the check die having succeeded)=roughly 23% chance of not getting the Truth anyway; a Seraph with 5 Celestial Forces and 10 Perception will only fail 3/36=8% of the time, and if he has 12 Perception you're talking about Infernal Intervention to fail (unless you say 12 is always a fail, or some similar house rule). So, why take these attunements if you're a Seraph of Judgement? Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ A jury consists of 12 persons chosen to decide who has the better lawyer. - Robert Frost ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 18:40:01 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Question on Shedim >>>There are a number of useful relics in the Liber Reliquarum that are nicely applicable to Shedim.<<< Also some Songs in the Liber Canticorum. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 18:39:57 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Song of Possession >>>Hrmph. Now that you mention it, that DID happen. *sigh* While the stories don't 'officially' count as canon, we try to work with them whenever we can. My only bugaboo about it is that this is an ugly way to totally hose another character (PC or NPC) since Song of Possession doesn't carry the limitations that the Shedim or Kyriotate resonance do. One quick possession and then put a bullet in your head.<<< I don't see this as unbalancing -- if you succeed in Possessing a PC or NPC, there a multitude of ugly ways to totally hose them. Death is just the most obvious. And if shooting yourself while possessed causes Trauma, you could still do someone in by putting them in an imminently lethal situation (step in front of an onrushing train, jump off a cliff, etc.) and then leave. I just reread the final (revised) draft of the Song of Possession for the Liber Canticorum. Alas, it is not specified what happens if the body you are possessing dies while you're in possession, only that when the Song ends, you return to your body. (The write-up _does_ specify that your body enters a comatose state while you're possessing someone else.) I would say that if your host is killed while you're possessing it, you get sent back to your body normally. Yes, scott free (though it might be appropriate to at least inflict Stunning). Nothing else is really justified in anything that's been written previously. However, I _would_ add that a mortal death, under such circumstances, would count as celestial intervention and cause the appropriate disturbance. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:52:11 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Judgement and Servitor Attunements At 22:48 11/10/98 +0100, you wrote: > > >A Seraph with 4 Celestial Forces and 10 Perception (not unreasonable) >therefore has a 3/36 (the chance of not rolling a 10 or less on 2 dice) >+ 33/36*1/6 (the chance of rolling a 1 on the check die having >succeeded)=roughly 23% chance of not getting the Truth anyway Less than that. The celestial forces aren't added to the CD, they are added to perception for the purposes of the resonance roll (as I read it). So your seraph with perception 10 and 4 celforces has an effective perception of 14 for its resonance. Even if it only had perception 8, it would require an infernal intervention not to get the truth. I think Divine Mediation could still be useful to a seraph though, assuming you have two plaintiffs who are both telling the truth and both believe themselves to be in the right. Judging won't always be a case of figuring out which party is lying. jo - -- Jo's (desperately out of date) homepage --> http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/index.html Jo's (bland, plagiarised and devoid of ideas) IN page --> http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/IN.html - -- ** Some of the above is indubitably true ** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:37:41 EDT From: WCLove@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? Hey, thanks for the ideas, everyone. This what I've come up with: Michael - Lexington Green, for obvious reasons Yves - the BPL (Boston Public Library); it seems only appropriate to me. I am also considering another tether for him at the MFA. Dominic - Harvard Law School Laurence - Charlestown Navy Yard, including the USS Constitution. (Or perhaps the old fort out in the harbor? Ft. George, isn't it?) Malphas - the Old State House, near the Boston Massacre site (not only was there a riot, it was overblown by Revere for political purposes. . .it's near government center and the sight of the busing riots, too). Perhaps another in Salem. Saminga - I think I really like the Pickman's Model, underground North End idea. Andrealphus - I was originally (smirking) going to put it in my old girlfriend's apartment on Hemenway St. But now, I think I will put it with those clubs on Landsdowne. Nybbas - I love that MIT idea. Asmodeus - Government Center. Belial - do any of you folks remember the name of the old club that burnt down and killed a large amount of people, because the doors would only open inward? I forgot it's name. I'm still pondering the others. However, I am beginning to wonder whether it is a wise idea to have soooo many tethers so tightly together. Perhaps I am providing too many bolt-holes for celestials in the city. Thoughts? Corbett Love, aka WC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:42:00 EDT From: WCLove@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? In a message dated 10/11/98 2:55:58 PM Central Daylight Time, mmks@jhu.edu writes: << The Game could have a Tether where ever Socko and Benzetti were hanged >> Hmmm. . .I like that. Where were they hanged in Boston, exactly? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:04:20 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Mortals using Songs >> It requires a Superior, altering their nature, >to >>grant them such a connection. >> >>-David > >Oh, yeah. Hadn't thought of that. Wait a minute... But everyone has >forces of each sphere, that sounds like connection to me. >Not enough of one... Humans can't go celestial, or to the celestial >realm, for example, except by dying. Nor can they go to the Marches at >will, and when there, they're normally stuck inside their dreamscape. that reminds me, anyone know if socerors can escape their dreamscapes? >The idea, I think, is that the attunement makes the other realms more of >a "native" environment for humans. Hrm... But, what if, say, a Demon Prince wished a human soldier to possess an ethereal (or celestial) song, would the DP have the power to do it? Or is that left to the whim of individual GM's? - -Perry, called a Ofanite by his friends. Hasn't told them he's Falling already... Heh, heh... Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:15:45 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Shedim >Taking advantage of the debate on shedim, I would like to ask some >questions: >1. In the song of possession, if the vessel is killed during the >possession, the individual that is possessing suffers trauma? And the >possessed? IMC, no. The possessed being was in the Marches. For possessed Vessels of Celestials, that's fine. They suddenly discover themselves in the Marches, curse their luck for allowing their Vessel to be possessed by someone else, and then can take action from there. If their Vessel is killed, they just lost a Vessel, but since they didn't experience the death themselves, they're not in Trauma. For mortals, they're thrust into their Dreamsphere in the Marches, if their body gets dead in the meantime, their dreamscape shatters and they're now a Dreamshade, or whatever they're called. Their soul roams the Dreamlands until it gets sucked into either Heaven or Hell, or gets collected (harvested?) by one of the Old Gods. In either case, the one who possessed the body does NOT suffer trauma. He did have a strong enough connection to the body he was in to suffer the shock, he merely gets ejected and snaps back to his original vessel (or spare vessel, or whatever) and/or has the opportunity to go Celestial. >2. Can a Shedite possess a body of a celestial? IMC, with their natural Resonance, no. Neither can they use it to possess cats or bats or rats or plants or fungi or inanimate objects. With a Song of Possession, yes, they can take over the Vessel of a Celestial. >3. Does Holy Bullets kill angels? And human beings? What would happen if a >holy bullet is placed in an unholy pistol?? Can an unholy pistol be used by >an angel? IMC, a Holy Bullet CAN kill angels, as well as human beings. I personally love it when a Demon gets a hold of a Holy Pistol and uses it on an Angel, killing the Angel's vessel. He he he... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Out of my distress I called on the Lord; the Lord answered me and set me in a broad place. With the Lord on my side I do not fear. What can mortals do to me?" - Psalm 118:5-6 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:19:16 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- New rules for Impudities. Felipe W. Pereira writes: >I didn't think the rules to determine the essence of a human has remaining, >in the middle of a crowd. That makes an Impudite usually find people empty >of essence, or in the maximum with 2 points. >I arranged a way to fix that problem, without leaving a larger probability >of still to be empty. And a small one of full. And to think that a person >gets his essence by noom, he will have more chaces to have at least 1 point. > >It is simple, roll 2d and subtract the higher from the lower, the diferece >will be the amount of essence that the individual will have. > >Look at the comparison > > Chance of having essence >Amount of essence Old New >0 12 in 36 6 in 36 >1 6 in 36 10 in 36 >2 6 in 36 8 in 36 >3 none 6 in 36 >4 none 4 in 36 >5 none 2 in 36 Cool beans!!! Hot diggity dog!!! I like that! I'll use this! - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:24:45 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- [FICTION] Harvesting Forces Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC >>Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- [FICTION] Harvesting Forces >>> >>>Perry Lloyd wrote: >>>> Can ONLY the Impudites take essence out of someone? Couldn't a >>>> Celestial be able to just rip essence out of someone? >[...] >>>There's no universe-specific >>>reason why EVERY celestial should be able to do it, IMO. >> >>Phooey... > >So do a house rule in your own game! Oh yeah. :) Hey, is there a Demon of House Rules yet? >:) - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "There is no reason why good cannot triumph as often as evil. The triumph of anything is a matter of organization. If there are such things as angels, I hope they are organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut The Sirens of Titan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:33:02 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: Azazel and the Seirim (was Re:IN- Shedites of the Game) snip snip snip... >In Enochian lore, Azazel is one of the rebel Watchers, along with >Semyaza (now the Balseraph Demon of Heresy). If this is how you want to >go then you could say that; >a) Those Watchers who Fell became Seirim (a minor Band). Seirim? Tell me more! >b) Those Watchers who Fell had no opposite Band (*) and were transformed > into other Bands by Lucifer himself. > > > >(*) the Outcast Watchers may simply have been so heavily discordant that >they were merely referred to as 'Seirim'. > > > >-- >Julian - (waiting for canon Grigori stuff :) ) me too... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:00:46 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> A Tether too many? Earlier someone mentioned about there being too many Tethers in their campaign for the Celestials to draw upon. I can see why that becomes a problem, due to the sheer amount of Celestial activity that most certainly goes on there. It's much worse if you choose a setting like I have -- With a population of 37,000 (and at that, it all depends if school is in session or not), one doesn't expect there to be more than one Tether at best... So how did I solve this little problem? Well, I came up with a nice large list of places that are SUSPECTED of being the Tether -- But not necessarily are they Tethers. Only one of them has most definitely been confirmed IMC. That the group is principly Angelic in nature and that the list of Tethers are quite Infernal in nature, is purely coincidental. *grin* - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph Marquis of Fate, Demon of Delusions of Granduer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:36:32 -0400 From: Setzer Gabbiani Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Mortals using Songs At 00:04 10/12/98 EST, you wrote: > >>> It requires a Superior, altering their nature, >>to >>>grant them such a connection. >>> >>>-David >> >>Oh, yeah. Hadn't thought of that. Wait a minute... But everyone has >>forces of each sphere, that sounds like connection to me. > >>Not enough of one... Humans can't go celestial, or to the celestial >>realm, for example, except by dying. Nor can they go to the Marches at >>will, and when there, they're normally stuck inside their dreamscape. > >that reminds me, anyone know if socerors can escape their dreamscapes? > Perry you must be careful when you have a player on the list. I can figure your plans Ben, Bright Lilim of flowers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:58:43 -0700 From: Stephen Gingell Subject: Re: IN> A Tether too many? Shadowstar wrote: > > Earlier someone mentioned about there being too many Tethers in their > campaign for the Celestials to draw upon. It was in connection to Boston, which like any middle age city (there aren't really any *old* cities in this country) is going to have a pretty rich history with great examples of every facet of humanity, so you really could justify any number of tethers to any number of superiors. The out I would use is that tethers are a big investment for a superior to maintain (you have to commit a pretty heafty celestial for a senchal if nothing else). Maintaining and defending a tether is going to represent alot of effort for the superior in question, so even if there is a promising site it's not going to be economical for either side to have more that two or three tethers in a city at most (IMC at any rate). Any more than that and you get some seriously diminishing returns on your essence, just like the army might like a fully stocked base outside every city in real life, they know they can't afford it. The only time IMC that you'll see more than one or two tethers per side in a city is when there are conflicts within that side about what should happen in that city (i.e. David wants folks in the city to form tight communities and look after their own, while Novalis has a tether to support cultural understanding and open relations with people different from yourself...) I guess what I'm saying is that if every skanky strip club is a tether to Andrephalus he'd be doing nothing but assigning Senchals to thier posts all day long, and even he doesn't have that many demons. I hope that does you some good. - -__________, the ________ of Secrets ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:50:26 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Song of Possession / Dark Dream (WAS: RE: Shedim) On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 11:24:55AM -0700, Stephen M Gingell wrote: > > Okay? He's an Impudite of DEATH. Perhaps that might explain it? > You > > never know what little tricks Saminga will teach his servitors. That is, > > if they can convince the idiot that they actually will further his word... > > > > Which is even how Marcus describes it (something about Saminga showing him > a few tricks about "how souls attach to bodies") but I had allways assumed > that just meant Saminga had taught him the song of possesion (which is all > that is mentioned on his writeup in the characters section). I don't have the book with me, but I believe he also has the Habbalah of Death attunement. Not that that should make any difference, since nothing of the kind is implied in the writeup of that attunement. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:47:39 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: IN> Word-bound redeems and Word is already taken... Hi, I have potentially this exact situation IMC: the Demon of Jingles (previously working for The Media) has Redeemed, and IIRC gets to keep his word. Now, what if there's already an Angel of Jingles? What happens then? Sam - -- INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ More of my stuff: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:40:31 -0400 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? Here's a few that I have for my campaign set in Boston. World Trade Center, Tether for Trade (duh) - Though not the largest of its kind, it is the most active. It contains ucountable land and satelite (okay they could be counted if you wanted to) communications lines as well as one of the most active convention and conference centers in North America. The Worded Senechal is Rimmiel, a Seraph Master of Trade whose role is Janine Mallory, Director of Operations for the Center. The Freedom Trail, Tether to Freedom - The Freedom trail looks like a list of Revolutionary War sites in Boston, and in fact that is just what it is. Though the trail never existed during the War itself it has been put together as a tourist attraction and a way of remembering what our founders fought for. In my mind the Senechal of the Freedom Trail changes rather constantly amoung servitors of Lilith that need a reminder of what word they truely serve. It is not a punishment, more of a refresher course. MIT Media Lab, Tether to Lightning - Already been written as well, if not better than I could have done. Though I must admit to liking Neel's interpretation very much. Old North Church, Tether to the Sword - Just one of many Revolutionary War legends that is basically true, the Old North Church became connected to the unusual tactics used by the American fighters in the War. As such it became connected to the ideal of the Sword and Laurence is proud to have it, though he wishes that the Church were Catholic (it is part of the loose organization of the Church of Christ). USS Constitution (not a Tether, just very cool) - In my campaign "Old Ironsides" is not a Tether at all. It is just a place that Michael likes to go and think. He can often be seen (if one knows what to look for) smiling on the deck as the tourists throw fake bundles of British tea off over the rail. Saint Joseph's Church (also not a Tether) - The home of Zaccai, a Malakim of the Sword, and self named protector of the children of Boston. Zaccai has the role of Father Zachary Morrison, an older man with a powerful gaze and a penchant for being in the right place at the right time. Hope you get some use from some of this. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:48:59 -0400 From: "Matthew Stein" Subject: RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? >> Whatever Archangel covers "Learning" or "Knowledge" (Yves, I suppose) would >> probably have a tether at the Boston Athenaeum (it's by the State House; >> membership only, really old books and a very impressive library). >Revelations, maybe. But the membership only requirement may preclude >that... Let me clarify my "membership only" point, just so it makes sense. Anyone may come into the Athenaeum; anyone may read the works inside. However, only members may enter the stacks, read the "dissolving works" (old pamphlets, speeches, etc. that are breaking up because of time), or take out books. >> Finally, I'd give Kobal (he's the Prince of Dark Humor, right?) a Tether at >> Harvard Business School, just because (no offense to anyone here), I'd say >> that an MBA is a piece of paper saying you know something everyone should >> understand - the entire concept's a joke no one has gotten yet (and HBS, as >> the best in the world at "Business Administration") would be home to that. >> Or, if you don't like that, use MIT's Sloan School - the idea of >> "mathematically analyzing business" must be joke, because no one has >> mathematical formulae that actually can predict human behavior or there >> results thereof. (Of course, he could just have a Tether at the Tomb of the >> Unknown Tool, where way too many MIT hacks were thought of.) >LOL! I like it. Being serious, though, Kobal and Marc may be fighting >over it (it has Tether potential but hasn't become one yet, and both sides >want it when it happens). Okay - how about a compromise - Marc gets HBS (the best at promoting the concept of "trade," whereas the concept of "mathematical analysis of business" is more a form of dark humor) and Kobal gets Sloan. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:49:07 -0400 From: "Matthew Stein" Subject: RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? ><< The Game could have a Tether where ever Socko and Benzetti were hanged >> >Hmmm. . .I like that. Where were they hanged in Boston, exactly? Not a clue. I'd guess either on the outskirts of the city, near where Logan is today (I think a lot of people were hanged there) or on the Common, in front of the State House. But then again, maybe they were just hanged in one of the prisons in the city. I'd check - it's most certainly on record in the BPD, and they (I think) get many requests for that info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:27:09 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> In Nomine Diceless Every once in a while, someone mentions the possibility of a diceless version of In Nomine. Here are my thoughts on the subject: - --- One the one hand, the cinematic nature of most IN makes dicelessness a good fit. After all, in movies, the character's tricks ALWAYS work unless specifically blocked by circumstance or another character. The only exception is transient periods in which apprentice heroes get trained by their masters and undergo amusing and/or character-building failures. On the other hand, doing away with dice means doing away with the trademark d666. No check digits, no Interventions. But there are possible workarounds: Check digits: In diceless play, so far as I am aware, you compare a character stat with a difficulty level. The check digit could be replaced by the difference between the two. Interventions: The GM can replace these with trigger events. For instance, the GM may determine that, after a Charlie the Cherub takes damage in defense of his current attuned, the very next time Charlie uses his Celestial Forces, he will get a Divine Intervention. Or any angelic attack on the Ethereal Forces of NPC Ichabod Impudite will provoke an Infernal Intervention. Why? The GM doesn't have to decide, anymore than they had to rationalize the 111s and 666s. The grand-daddy of diceless play, the Amber game by Phage Press, was very mechanics-light. It's hard to make IN mechanics-light without a LOT of re-writing, because there are lots of customized mechanics for each Superior. But here is a start: - - No Skills, Characteristics, or Hits - To limit the number of stats, I first eliminate all mundane skills. If a skill is appropriate to your Role, Word, or Choir/Band, you can do it, period, or you can do it with a successful use of Action (see below). I also eliminate the characteristics Will, Perception, Intelligence, etc. I also eliminate Soul, Mind, and Body Hits. - - Difficulty Levels - Here are more general guidelines for helping the GM assign difficulty levels: 1 - trivial, weak human Force level 2 - average human. weak celestial Force level 3 - average beginning celestial PC Force level 6 - average beginning celestial PC combat level 12 - maximum celestial PC combat level - - Five Basic Stats - The character is defined by its Forces, just as in the current game, and by a stat call "Action." Action bundles combat, acrobatics, stealth, and any suitable dexterity-related skills associated with the character, especially by virtue of its Role. The character also starts with at least one Vessel of a given level, but for the typical celestial character this is more in the nature of a possession than a part of the character. The stats are, then: Celestial Forces Ethereal Forces Corporeal Forces Action Vessel Level - - Character Generation - Allocate 15 points among the five primary stats. Pick a Word and a choir or band. Pick three songs. Roles, Servitors, and all other resources are negotiated with the GM. - - Resonnances - In place of making a resonnance roll, celestials must now compare a stat with some difficulty level. To save the GM the bother of fixing all these levels, here are some resonnance rules. In general, the celestial matches its Celestial Forces against some force-level of its target. Seraph or Balseraph: Celestial vs. Ethereal to truth-read or delude target Cherub or Djinni: Celestial vs. Corporeal to track target Ophanite: Add Celestial to any use of Action (except in combat); Celestial vs. GM's choice for area knowledge or flight Calabite: Celestial vs. Corporeal to damage target Elohite or Habbalaite: Celestial vs. Ethereal to read or inflict emotions on target Malakite or Lilim: Celestial vs. Ethereal to read state of honor or state of need Kyriotate or Shedite: Celestial vs. Celestial to possess target Mercurian or Impudite: Celestial vs. Celestial to read social status or drain target In place of check digits, use the margin by which the celestial succeeded. (This means 6s will be very rare, instead of just as common as 1s.) Normally, resonnances cost no Essence, but celestials can add 1 to each use of resonnance by spending one point of Essence. Option: To make things tougher, GMs can allow non-celestials to add 1 to their resistance by likewise spending one point of Essence. Soldiers and other folk "in the know" can do so even if they can't spend Essence on Songs. Even ordinary mundanes can spend a point unconsciously if the resonnance is something they wouldn't generally want done if they knew - -- which means most demonic resonnances and angelic resonnances of people who feel guilty. Option: To make things easier, you can count a tie as a success for the celestial. - - Dissonance and Discord - Instead of deciding when to roll for dissonance, GMs and players must decide when to directly assign notes of dissonance to the character. Since there is no possibility of dodging the dissonance, points should probably be inflicted only in clear cases, or for persistent walking on the borderline. As in canonical play, players may cash in three notes of dissonance for a level of discord. The GM may also do this to a character. - - Outcasts, Renegades, Falling, and Redemption - No game mechanics is used; it's all roleplay. If the GM wants a Superior to do the casting out instead of waiting for the PC to take the initiative, the GM might wish to make up a table of the amount of dissonance or discord each Superior will tolerate before rejecting a servitor. - - Combat - The normative combat situation is single combat to the death between two celestials. Each character has a combat rating equal to Action + Forces for the realm they are in, e.g. Action + Corporeal for phyical combat. The GM compares the two scores; the character with the higher score is going to win, all other things being equal. Example: It's a fight in a back alley (i.e., in the Corporeal) between PC Charlie the Cherub and NPC Ichabod the Impudite. Charlie: Action = 3, Corporeal = 4, combat rating = 3 + 4 = 7 Ichabod: Action = 4, Corporeal = 2, combat rating = 4 + 2 = 6 So Ichabod is going to lose, all other things being equal. But this is not immediately obvious to Charlie's player. The GM makes a note of this and, together with Charlie's player, they begin to narrate the fight, the GM guiding the narrative toward the indicated outcome. The bigger the difference, the faster and more thoroughly the winner will win. Here, the difference is only 1, so this will be a long, drawn-out fight. If the two combat ratings are equal, the two characters fight to a stalemate or find some other way to break the tie. The damage of a fight is represented by one of four damage level: 1 - Lightly wounded 2 - Moderately wounded 3 - Heavily wounded 4 - Losing Forces (Celestial combat) Unconscious (Ethereal combat) Mortally wounded (Corporeal; dead in a few minutes or hours without aid) The difference in combat ratings is equal to the difference in damage level. So, if Charlie pummels Ichabod to death, Charlie himself will still be heavily wounded. There are several ways to break off a normative combat before someone reaches damage level 4. Other events, like the arrival of other characters, can intervene. Using weapons and Songs can change the outcome, too, as can spending Essence to briefly raise your effective Forces. If the narrative suggests it, one character can break out of combat by winning a match of stats with the other. Example: Ichabod has a lower combat rating but a higher Action. If, in the course of the fight, he realizes he is no longer cornered by Charlie, he can match Actions, win, and successfully run away. For group melee, the GM adds up the combat ratings of the two sides. As with single combat, this indicates which side will win and how decisively, unless something else happens. (In a melee, something else very likely will.) The combat system almost certainly needs more development, but that's all I've come up with so far. - - Character Advancement - There is no great difference from the canonical system, except that GMs should hand out character points a lot more slowly, since there are fewer stats to spend them on. I recommend an "exercise" principle, whereby the stat that is used most advances fastest. (Unless the advance is by Superior intervention. "Hm, bravely fought, but you seem to be weak on the Ethereal side. I'll give you another Force. Open wide...") - --- There it is. I'm sure there are lots of holes; I haven't been able to playtest this at all. But perhaps it will provide a framework for discussion. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #974 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.