From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Oct 13 11:19:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22578 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:19:56 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id KAA11298 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:55:57 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:55:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199810131555.KAA11298@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #975 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, October 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 975 In this digest: IN> A FAQ query... Re: IN> Word-bound redeems and Word is already taken... Re: IN> Word-bound redeems and Word is already taken... Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Mortals using Songs Re: IN> A Tether too many? Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? Re: IN> A Tether too many? Re: IN> Question on Shedim IN> Mortals using Songs IN> Word-bound redeems and Word is already taken... Re: IN> Re: Azazel and the Seirim (was Re:IN- Shedites of the Game) Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? Re: IN> A Tether too many? Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? Re: IN> Question on Shedim RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? Re: IN> Question on Shedim IN> Lilith Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> Lilith Re: IN> Lilith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:46:43 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> A FAQ query... From the FAQ (under Characteristics): >Some of the characters in the supplements have characteristics above 12. >Is this legal? > > Yes, but not to player characters. An especially favored servitor of >a Superior can be granted Forces and characteristics beyond the maximum >for player characters. In general only a being as powerful as an Archangel >or a Demon Prince can manage this. If a powerful word-bound servitor >managed the trick somehow, it would certainly be noticed (and dealt with!) >by their Superior! I'm assuming that this part of the FAQ -desperately- needs updating... 'Cause we all know that -NO- characteristic can be above 12, -period-. (Wouldn't want to confuse the newly initiated ST/GM's into thinking they can get away with MURDER, now would we?) - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph Marquis of Fate, Demon of Delusions of Granduer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:53:30 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Word-bound redeems and Word is already taken... At 9:28 AM -0500 10/12/98, in_nomine-digest wrote: >Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:47:39 +0100 >From: Sam Kington > >Hi, > >I have potentially this exact situation IMC: the Demon of Jingles >(previously working for The Media) has Redeemed, and IIRC gets to keep >his word. Now, what if there's already an Angel of Jingles? What happens >then? In Canon, you don't get to keep your word once you switch sides. The governing body of the Other Side has the /option/ of assigning you your old Word, but it's by no means guaranteed. In the above case, it's possible that the Angel of Jingles gets a new servitor. This, of course, assumes they haven't had the typical extremely antagonistic relationship common to most word-sharers. I'd think it also more likely that a Fallen Angel of X will become the Demon of X , than the Redeemed Demon of X will become the Angel of X. Lucifer's whims seem to run that way, and Hell gives the impression that it will let in just about anyone. And Hell freely exercises the Survival of the Fittest, so if it turns out that The Demon of X couldn't cut it, he'll be removed summarily. The Seraphim Council, on the other hand, seems more likely to require a lengthy and involved period of testing to ensure that the former Demon of X isn't still corrupted by his former Word. Can't be too careful. He's a new Angel, and we can't quite trust him yet. Might do a bit of backsliding, and we can't afford to have confused Angels wandering around in positions of power. And unlike Hell, Heaven doesn't exercise the option of just killing him off. In most cases. - -- Nana Yaw Ofori nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:29:08 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Word-bound redeems and Word is already taken... Sam Kington wrote: > > Hi, > > I have potentially this exact situation IMC: the Demon of Jingles > (previously working for The Media) has Redeemed, and IIRC gets to keep > his word. Now, what if there's already an Angel of Jingles? What happens > then? Generally celestials that Redeem or Fall all the way lose their Words. If they are particularly suited for the Word (and it isn't currently in use), then Lucifer/the Seraphim Council might re-grant it to the turncoat after suitable study. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 98 17:11 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? >Why do you think the Revolutionary War wasn't Laurence's kind of war? I should have added "in the Boston area" -- that was the context for the comment. There weren't too many classical-style battles fought around Boston, as far as I know; it was pretty much all militia stuff, I think. The bigger battles, which I see more as Laurence's sort, were fought more to the west and south of New England, as best I can remember. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 98 17:18 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? >I'm still pondering the others. However, I am beginning to wonder whether it >is a wise idea to have soooo many tethers so tightly together. Perhaps I am >providing too many bolt-holes for celestials in the city. Thoughts? I haven't had too much trouble with PCs using the Tethers -- they've been more convenient than nuisance. You just have to keep the PCs from ordering up squads of Malakim whenever they want, and there are other ways to handle that. (Insert plug for Tether book here....) I don't think I'd want more than a half-dozen Tethers within easy reach at any one time, though some of the older and more historical cities are more Tether-prone, and it's sometimes hard to justify keeping the numbers down in such places. My Boston game has only three angelic Tethers in easy reach, and another 2-3 within a couple hours' drive by car. Likewise, there are only about 3 demonic Tethers in the immediate area. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 98 17:24 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Mortals using Songs >that reminds me, anyone know if socerors can escape their dreamscapes? The canon on sorcerors is rather fuzzy. I would tend to say "yes" for Dream Soldiers. I'm less inclined to think so for sorcerors, who don't really have that much specific connection with the Ethereal, execpt the ability to pull spirits from there (as they can from the celestial). Which isn't to say that a sorceror couldn't bargain for the ability from one of the ethreals.... >>The idea, I think, is that the attunement makes the other realms more >of >>a "native" environment for humans. > >Hrm... But, what if, say, a Demon Prince wished a human soldier to >possess an ethereal (or celestial) song, would the DP have the power to >do it? Or is that left to the whim of individual GM's? Yes, they can do this, by granting the special attunement to the Soldier. That's basically what it's for. Normally, only Blandine and Beleth routinely grant the ethereal one to their Soldiers, but I don't believe it's exclusive to them. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 98 17:06 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> A Tether too many? > It was in connection to Boston, which like any middle age city (there >aren't really any *old* cities in this country) is going to have a >pretty rich history with great examples of every facet of humanity, so >you really could justify any number of tethers to any number of >superiors. The out I would use is that tethers are a big investment for >a superior to maintain (you have to commit a pretty heafty celestial for >a senchal if nothing else). Maintaining and defending a tether is going >to represent alot of effort for the superior in question, so even if >there is a promising site it's not going to be economical for either >side to have more that two or three tethers in a city at most (IMC at >any rate). Any more than that and you get some seriously diminishing >returns on your essence, just like the army might like a fully stocked >base outside every city in real life, they know they can't afford it. Tethers are probably more analagous to generating stations or train terminals than army bases. And in canon, they do not form at the Superior's option. They form for external reasons (usually involving humans), and one or more Superiors can choose to try to stabilize them. But if one Superior doesn't, another might -- most likely the Superior's opponent on the other side. Since Tethers are a source of Essence to Superiors, as well as transport and sometimes military presence, leaving a Tether to go over to the other side is generally a bad strategic move, and owning one is usually an overall benefit. Also, Tether's represent the power of a Superior's Word, and not taking advantage of a new one and stabilizing it is essentially neglecting one's Word, which is against a Superior's nature. So multiple Tethers per city isn't all that rare. It *is* rare for there to be more than one Tether to a given Superior in a particular area, though. > what I'm saying is that if every skanky strip >club is a tether to Andrephalus he'd be doing nothing but assigning >Senchals to thier posts all day long, and even he doesn't have that many >demons. Probably one in every major city, though -- Andre tends to have a lot of relatively weak Tethers, unlike some other Superiors. This is partly because his Word is fairly strong everywhere. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:20:44 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > >Why do you think the Revolutionary War wasn't Laurence's kind of war? > > I should have added "in the Boston area" -- that was the context for the > comment. There weren't too many classical-style battles fought around > Boston, as far as I know; it was pretty much all militia stuff, I think. > The bigger battles, which I see more as Laurence's sort, were fought > more to the west and south of New England, as best I can remember. Ah. Okay. Makes since now. (I just finished writing a paper on the role of the regular army in the Revolutionary War for my U.S. Military History Class. My apologies if I seemed confrontational about it.) Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page. The Gaming Ghetto, at In Nomine: The Last Days, at Walking the Planes, at - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:33:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> A Tether too many? Feeding off of some of Walter's points, I'm of the impression that tethers are not only distinctive of their superiors words, but they are concentrations that exceed average levels. Granted, it's a lot easier to find locations that scream "lust" than it is to find some that just resonate with Dark Humor. However, tethers would only be created in areas with an especially strong concentration of lust. I've always assumed that to be a tether, the area has to embody the word an order of magnitude above day to day levels. Case in point: When passing by a strip club, it's easy to just say "there's another strip club... loud music, no windows, only men going in and out..." On the other hand, at the old railroad tressel where Jimmy Dougan was hit and killed 7 years ago, you can't help but feel a slight chill in the air just walking by the tracks. -Jayson _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:14:08 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Question on Shedim Walter Milliken wrote: > > >3) Could a Celestial lend Essence to the mortal specifically for either > >of these rolls? > > That's rather tricky -- I would rule it would have to be done before, or > at the exact instant of, the attempted resistance. And you can't give > Essence to anyone who is already full, nor use it to help someone else's > action. In general, the receiving being has to be able to use their own essence consciously in order to accept Essence from an outside source. It sucks to be a normal. ;) If you manage to get a soldier or other mortal that has control before they have to make the Will roll, then they could use it, I'm sure. The tricky part is how do you get Essence to someone who's completely mixed up with a Shedim? IMO, the situation is too tangled and you can't target the recipient well enough to transfer the essence. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:59:55 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Mortals using Songs >>>Hrm... But, what if, say, a Demon Prince wished a human soldier to possess an ethereal (or celestial) song, would the DP have the power to do it? Or is that left to the whim of individual GM's?<<< You mean give a mortal the power to use a *single* Ethereal or Celestial Song, as opposed to granting the appropriate attunement to learn any Ethereal or Celestial Song (which requires two different attunements, incidentally)? Yes, that's left up to the GM. Personally, I'd say a Superior could probably do that, but it's very inefficient...it would be the equivalent of giving the same attunement (at the same "cost," from the Superior's point of view) but limited to allow only one Song....and he'd have to grant it multiple times to allow multiple, individually chosen Songs. Very rarely would a Superior deem it so important that a mortal possess a non-Corporeal Song -- and if that mortal is so important, it's unlikely the Superior would be willing to give him just the one Song and not throw in the whole attunement. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:01:38 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Word-bound redeems and Word is already taken... >>>I have potentially this exact situation IMC: the Demon of Jingles (previously working for The Media) has Redeemed, and IIRC gets to keep his word. Now, what if there's already an Angel of Jingles? What happens then?<<< Well, canonically, a celestial who Redeems or Falls does _not_ keep his old Word. If a Word-bound angel Falls, Lucifer does sometimes opt to grant the demon the same Word he held previously (assuming another demon doesn't already hold it). It's highly unlikely the Seraphim Council would give a newly-Redeemed Word-bound demon the same Word he held as a diabolical, though. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:52:57 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Re: Azazel and the Seirim (was Re:IN- Shedites of the Game) Perry writes: >Seirim? Tell me more! You can see more about the Seirim (or Se'irim to be correct) at; http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bakerkm/azazel.html Which will take you on to a number of links, including the Book of Enoch, and a nice one on Lilith (which I think that Earl may have mentioned previously). Long before I started playing IN though, I remember reading 'The Sleepless', by Graham Masterton. Like all of his books it is terribly gruesome, but does contain some 'interesting' ideas on the Watchers. It also directly associates them with the Se'irim, IIRC. - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 02:19:25 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? In message , gantr@NKU.EDU writes >On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Matthew Stein wrote: > >> I'd suggest the following: >> >> Boston Harbor Tea Party (yes, the ship off Congress Street) for a Tether to >> the Wind (sort of - it's an Ofanite kind of thing, I think). The Children's >> Museum would be perfect tether for Christopher. Let me think what else.... > >Alternatly, it would make a good Tether to Factions. The Sons of Liberty >were, after all, an IRA style terrorist organization. Terrorism seems to >fit Factions better than anyone else I can think of. > But don't forget that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. And it often takes violence in order to effect positive change. - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 98 22:20 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> A Tether too many? >Feeding off of some of Walter's points, I'm of the impression that >tethers are not only distinctive of their superiors words, but they >are concentrations that exceed average levels. Granted, it's a lot >easier to find locations that scream "lust" than it is to find some >that just resonate with Dark Humor. However, tethers would only be >created in areas with an especially strong concentration of lust. >I've always assumed that to be a tether, the area has to embody the >word an order of magnitude above day to day levels. That's basically all consistent with the Tethers book, except that there's a suggestion that a Superior's Word power tends to manifest as a certain total power level of Tethers; it can be lots of small ones, or a few larger ones, or various combinations. (Think of the Word's power building up in the corporeal realm, to the point where it "breaks through" into the celestial at the most intense points.) Andre's Tethers are at the extreme end -- his Word is pretty ubiquitous, so he gets very weak, short-lived Tethers all over the place. Gabriel, on the other hand, tends to have a smaller number of powerful Tethers, that are more persistent. Or something along those lines.... The canon isn't really hard and fast, since it's intended to give the GM flexibility in Tether placement. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 98 22:21 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? >> >Why do you think the Revolutionary War wasn't Laurence's kind of war? >> >> I should have added "in the Boston area" -- that was the context for the >> comment. There weren't too many classical-style battles fought around >> Boston, as far as I know; it was pretty much all militia stuff, I think. >> The bigger battles, which I see more as Laurence's sort, were fought >> more to the west and south of New England, as best I can remember. > >Ah. Okay. Makes since now. (I just finished writing a paper on the role >of the regular army in the Revolutionary War for my U.S. Military History >Class. My apologies if I seemed confrontational about it.) No problem -- you probably know a lot more about it than I. I'm operating mostly from history in school, long ago, and a bit of Area Knowledge.... Mostly, I'm history-illiterate. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 98 22:24 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Question on Shedim >> >3) Could a Celestial lend Essence to the mortal specifically for either >> >of these rolls? >> >> That's rather tricky -- I would rule it would have to be done before, or >> at the exact instant of, the attempted resistance. And you can't give >> Essence to anyone who is already full, nor use it to help someone else's >> action. > > In general, the receiving being has to be able >to use their own essence consciously in order to accept >Essence from an outside source. It sucks to be a normal. ;) Actually, I've been assuming that normals could *receive* Essence, but not give it. The rules really only require conscious control to give it, I think. >If you manage to get a soldier or other mortal that has >control before they have to make the Will roll, then they >could use it, I'm sure. The tricky part is how do you >get Essence to someone who's completely mixed up with >a Shedim? IMO, the situation is too tangled and you >can't target the recipient well enough to transfer >the essence. Yes, if the Shedite is already there, I don't think you could be sure who was getting the Essence. It would take some kind of special trick to do that, I think -- a weird Song, artifact, or attunement of some kind. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:52:58 -0400 From: "Matthew Stein" Subject: RE: IN> IN - Boston Help? >>> Boston Harbor Tea Party (yes, the ship off Congress Street) for a Tether to >>> the Wind (sort of - it's an Ofanite kind of thing, I think). The Children's >>> Museum would be perfect tether for Christopher. Let me think what else.... >> >>Alternatly, it would make a good Tether to Factions. The Sons of Liberty >>were, after all, an IRA style terrorist organization. Terrorism seems to >>fit Factions better than anyone else I can think of. >> > >But don't forget that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom >fighter. > >And it often takes violence in order to effect positive change. I tend to think of "terrorists" and "freedom fighters" (or "patriots") as having more to do with who wins the war. You know, the Winner determines History, and all that. (Civil War - terrorists. Revolution, patriots and freedom fighters.) Thus, I'd argue that if the Tether must be Demonic (and I'm of two minds about it), then it'd be either Factions or War. Even though the site of the so-called Boston Massacre would be a better site. (And, speaking of annoying history, the courthouse where Adams and Hancock defended the Red-coats accused of murder in the Massacre could be a tether, or at least a focal point, for Justice or the Game.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:50:45 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> IN - Boston Help? On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Julian Breen wrote: > >Alternatly, it would make a good Tether to Factions. The Sons of Liberty > >were, after all, an IRA style terrorist organization. Terrorism seems to > >fit Factions better than anyone else I can think of. > > But don't forget that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom > fighter. > > And it often takes violence in order to effect positive change. Perhaps. But I still find it morally ambiguous at best, and apalling at worst. Terrorist actions are fairly despicable, no matter what the justification used. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page. The Gaming Ghetto, at In Nomine: The Last Days, at Walking the Planes, at - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:50:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Question on Shedim On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > > In general, the receiving being has to be able > >to use their own essence consciously in order to accept > >Essence from an outside source. It sucks to be a normal. ;) > > Actually, I've been assuming that normals could *receive* Essence, but > not give it. The rules really only require conscious control to give > it, I think. Now that I think about this, this is the way I'll be doing it. Motivation: He stared at the white surface. The visions that usually flooded his mind when confronted with an empty canvas where completely absent. He didn't know for how long he stood there, his soul feeling just as empty as the square before him. It had been like this for weeks, ever since the quite successful exhibition at the gallery. Everyone had congratulated him, bought his paintings, asked what he would do next... Just when he was about to throw the palette away and take a knife to the mocking canvas, the doorbell rang. Outside the door stood his new neighbour, what was his name? Eric, Ellis, something like that. "Hey, man, wanna share a bottle? I thought you might, y'know, like some company." The man (Eddie?) held up a bottle of cheap, but not bad, red wine. He was about to make some kind of excuse when he suddenly realized that (what _was_ his name?) he was right - he did want some company. "Uh, yeah, sure. Why not?" Two hours later, after the most relaxed conversation he'd had in years, (Eugene?) the guy with the bottle got up and stabbed out the cigarett he'd been smoking. When they parted, (Edward?) the neighbour stuck out his hand. He had a firm and somehow very relaxed handshake. Friendly. "Take care, man" he said and strolled (not ran, or walked - strolled) down the stairs, whistling a tune the painter had never heard before. Suddenly he felt as if the sun had broken through after several days of rain... He walked back into his studio, took up his palette, squeezed out some paint, and raised the brush... Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:10:13 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: IN> Lilith A player of mine suggested something which I found quite interesting. As the Fall happened *after* Lilith walked out of Eden, maybe she noticed a 'hook' in the Lightbringer? Could she have *persuaded* him to Fall in exchange for power and recognition? On a less intriguing note, I wasn't really happy with some of the Rituals/Invocation modifiers in the book for her so I came up with these; Rituals: * Assisting in a stillborn delivery (+2 essence) Invocation +1 Cancelling an appointment, because you _can_ +2 At a Singles Club where there is at least one married client +3 At an Abortion Clinic/scene of a cot death +4 A mortal who quits his job on the spur of the moment +5 Freeing a human prisoner (as per book) +6 Overthrowing a Government (as per book) Any other suggestions/comments? - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:24:40 -0500 From: Heresy Subject: Re: IN> Lilith Julian Breen wrote: > On a less intriguing note, I wasn't really happy with some of the > Rituals/Invocation modifiers in the book for her so I came up with > these; > Rituals: > > * Assisting in a stillborn delivery (+2 essence) > +4 At an Abortion Clinic/scene of a cot death I'm not sure how these relate to Freedom, except in the sense that someone who undergoes any of these three things is freed from the responsibility of raising the child. Maybe: * Canceling an appointment, because you _can_ (+1 Essence) (This sounds more like a ritual than an invocation modifier to me.) * Strolling naked through an urban/suburban community for one hour (+2) > Invocation I'd rearrange these, personally, like so: +1 Staying in bed instead of going to work +2 A mortal who quits his job on the spur of the moment +3 Freeing a single human prisoner (this should be brought down, IMHO. It's not even close to overthrowing a government.) +4 At the scene of a jailbreak +5 Going on an extended road trip without an itinerary +6 Overthrowing a government (as per book) Thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:36:59 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lilith Heresy wrote: > > * Assisting in a stillborn delivery (+2 essence) > > +4 At an Abortion Clinic/scene of a cot death > > I'm not sure how these relate to Freedom, except in the sense > that someone who undergoes any of these three things is freed > from the responsibility of raising the child. That sense is perhaps enough for a dark side of the Word Freedom. But they are very appropriate to the myth of Lilith, who is the enemy of human children. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:53:51 -0500 From: Heresy Subject: Re: IN> Lilith Earl Wajenberg wrote: > That sense is perhaps enough for a dark side of the Word > Freedom. But they are very appropriate to the myth of > Lilith, who is the enemy of human children. This is quite true, and the bit about Lilith being the enemy of human children I'd forgotten. I'm playing in an Angels game at the moment, so I tend to look for the good side of things. :) > Earl Chris (psst... Ben, Perry, what am I? :) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #975 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.