From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Oct 25 18:38:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA02520 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:38:24 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA05917 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:05:12 -0600 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:05:12 -0600 Message-Id: <199810260005.SAA05917@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #993 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, October 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 993 In this digest: Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) RE: IN> GMs Wanted! RE: IN> GMs Wanted! Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) Re: Re: IN> In Nomine: Paranoia IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #992 Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #992 Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #992 Re: IN> If Michael Fell.. IN> Section 145: Smoke Bombs 4.14 IN> Re: IN- Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) IN> Re: IN- GURPS In Nomine IN> skills, thrills and munchkin chills IN> Re: IN- Prince of Fools IN> Re: IN- Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #992 IN> Learning Songs Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) Re: IN> Learning Songs IN> Re: Angelic Words Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine IN> FREE INTERNET ACCESS! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Oct 98 14:13 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) [Jo:] >MarkDEddy wrote: > >>I have a house rule that helps with that problem. Instead of requiring >>characters to buy skills to fill a Role, the Role includes a number of >>skills inherent in the Role equal to the level of the Role at the Role's >level. >>(i.e., Police Detective/3 has firearms/3, investigation/3, and knowledge: >>police procedures/3.) > >I like this a lot! It does get past the problem of how someone could have a >high level high status role without the skills to back it up. I'm pretty sure the Role mechanics say that Roles automatically include the necessary skills for the Role. There aren't really any details, but Mark's "house rule" is, I think, fairly close to canon. >The other thing I was thinking was whether it might work to allow people to >have sub-roles, to cover things that their role-character might get up to in >it's spare time. That one's been discussed before -- I think John Karakesh did his "netrep canon" rite on it. Things like this supposedly come under the main Role. I believe the example was someone with a secret identity as a thief or something, who had a "day job" as a cover. In this case the Role includes both parts. Presumably this can be extrapolated to include reasonable "hobby skills". - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:49:40 -0400 From: Sheep Boy Subject: RE: IN> GMs Wanted! On Monday, October 19, 1998 12:18 AM, Tal Meta [SMTP:talmeta@bellatlantic.net] wrote: > Greetings. > > I'm the RPG coordinator for MonCon '99, which will be held on March > 19-21st at the Tinton Falls Hilton in Tinton Falls NJ. In that capacity, > I'm looking for GMs (and players, too) for In Nomine events at > the convention. If you're in the NJ/NY/PA/MD area, and think you'd be > interested in running such an event, please contact me -OFF-LIST- and > I'll give you more specifics. > > Thanx for your time... > > -- > talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! > ICQ - 12594453 > AIM - talmeta1 > TANJ Lives! - > Alternate Homepage - Hello, I was just wondering if I could get some additional information about your convention and the request for GMs. Firstly, I am located in New York City, and I was wondering if you could give me an approximate distance from the City in hours? If it's nearby, I might be interested in running an event. Also, I was wondering what kind of games you were looking for GMs to run, i.e., demos for newbies, or are you expecting more of the hard core fans who are all intimately familiar with the rules and looking for a challenge or to push the rules to their limit, or what. Is there a web site at which I can check out more info about the con? Thanks much, - Stavro ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:37:23 -0400 From: Sheep Boy Subject: RE: IN> GMs Wanted! Argh! Sincere apologies, all. Didn't check the headers on that one. - Stavro ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:55:13 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) In a message dated 10/24/98 2:26:26 PM, milliken@BBN.COM wrote: >I'm pretty sure the Role mechanics say that Roles automatically include >the necessary skills for the Role. There aren't really any details, but >Mark's "house rule" is, I think, fairly close to canon. Actually, it's not. "Also, a Role includes the skill of Knowledge [How to be a (whatever)], at a level equal to his resource level." (pg. 44, last paragraph) This is the only skill that comes with the Role. "All Roles demand a skill or two, at levels no lower than that of the role, to successfully play that part." (pg. 71, last paragraph) The examples on pp. 72-73, then have skills listed that are "...requires (x) skill." in format. This is a prerequisite skill, which would normally come out of a character's cps. My house rule makes them free, and in the case of high resource-level Roles, gives an extra skill or three. I have yet to see any errata on this topic, and fourteen times is a little steep for a mistake to be repeated.... Mark (see, Beth I *do* know how to snip...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:04:10 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: IN> In Nomine: Paranoia In a message dated 10/21/98 2:04:06 AM, Perry and others wrote: >>>Mark off another Vessel, citizen. >:) >>>That reminds me, anyone doing In Nomine: Paranoia? > >>Only vaguely. I use the Paranoia combat system for my (mostly serious) >In >>Nomine game. > >I'd ask what the combat rules are like, but I'm afraid of losing another >vessel... > >-Perry I'd been meaning to type and send on the actual mechanics, but I lost the rules notes I used to pacify my players. The essential is that the Malakim of Michael incapacitates one enemy per round, and the rest of the characters (including NPC's) do a single "wound level" per round, depending on die roles. It's mostly description, shouting, and rapid paced action... until an Intervention occurs, at which point the Super Slo-Mo(tm) goes on (the best version of this effect is in _Saving Private Ryan_, though Babylon 5 uses it to good effect...) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:37:22 PDT From: "Steve Marco" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #992 Dear Everybody, I have several Angelic words for which I would like your opinion on what superior they would fall under. Angel of the Presence Angel of Purpose Angel of Divine Illumination Angel of Silence Thanks... "If the people we love are taken from us, they way we can have them live on...is to never stop loving them...Buildings burn, people die, but real love is forever" The Crow The Seraphican, Steve Marco ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:00:26 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #992 On Sat, 24 Oct 1998, Steve Marco wrote: > Dear Everybody, > I have several Angelic words for which I would like your opinion on what > superior they would fall under. > Angel of the Presence Michael. One of his ancient Servitors dating back well before the Fall and his being awarded the Word of War. Why? No canonical reason, just a gut feeling. I think Michael's original Word was (and still is; War just being an additional responsibility) "Michael", meaning "who is like God". Of course, that's more of a gut feeling than a reason, though. > Angel of Purpose David, and possibly an Elohite. > Angel of Divine Illumination Lucifer. However, since Lucifer Fell, the Angel of Divine Illumination now works for Yves. > Angel of Silence David or Yves. Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:01:35 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #992 On Sat, 24 Oct 1998, Steve Marco wrote: > Angel of the Presence Khalid, definitely. > Angel of Purpose Um...Yves. > Angel of Divine Illumination Gabriel, totally. > Angel of Silence I'd probably go with David. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:07:51 EST From: Heretic103@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> If Michael Fell.. In a message dated 10/24/98 1:42:28 AM Central Daylight Time, AmadanSJG@compuserve.com writes: << If Michael Fell, Baal would lose a lot of his motivation, but he'd still press for a final resolution to the War, so he could prove for once and for all that he was right. >> He would probably become distracted from trying to compete with the new prince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 06:21:58 EST From: NetCoreGen@aol.com Subject: IN> Section 145: Smoke Bombs 4.14 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_909314519_boundary Content-ID: <0_909314519@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - --part0_909314519_boundary Content-ID: <0_909314519@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: NetCoreGen@aol.com Return-path: To: NetCoreGen@aol.com Subject: The book! 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Thank you for your time, Universal Marketing Agency * Free not including S/H of $15.00 - --part0_909314519_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 04:46:03 PST From: "Cove Nightsbane" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) >MarkDEddy wrote: > >>I have a house rule that helps with that problem. Instead of requiring >>characters to buy skills to fill a Role, the Role includes a number of >>skills inherent in the Role equal to the level of the Role at the Role's >level. >>(i.e., Police Detective/3 has firearms/3, investigation/3, and knowledge: >>police procedures/3.) > >I like this a lot! It does get past the problem of how someone could have a >high level high status role without the skills to back it up. I suppose if >you wanted a high level role which was actually supposed to be incompetent >at it's major skill then you'd need to take a role as 'Incompetent Police >Detective/6' rather than 'Police Detective/6' This rule doesn't seem to work in my eyes. Having a SomeRoleOrOther/6 doesn't mean that 'yer the best damn SomeRoleOrOther out there!', it means, 'this SomeRoleOrOther is fantastically woven into the symphony'. And anyway, I've had fun as a 'Puffed-up bad musician from the slums/4' >The other thing I was thinking was whether it might work to allow people to >have sub-roles, to cover things that their role-character might get up to in >it's spare time. Erk...just because you have the role Poolcleaner/5 doesn't mean you're a poolcleaner and can have spare time. Ultimately, yer still just a celestial who has a special note in the symphony for him as a poolcleaner. but he DOESN'T have spare time to play pool with his palz. He has to go clean the Infernal Corrupting Chlorine from Mrs. Clinton's pool and then run off to meet his Archangel for dinner, THEN he's gotta find that *cute* bright Lilim and....um...anyway... >I'm going to think about this ;) I hope so! ~`~`<@ The only thing sadder than a fallen rose, is a fallen angel. Cove Nightbane, Malakim of Eli in service to Blandine Guardian of the Dreamforest ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 04:51:34 PST From: "Cove Nightsbane" Subject: IN> Re: IN- GURPS In Nomine J. Michael Neal hath stated and all that: >I'm not convinced that GURPS IN is going to work that well. My impression, >gathered mostly from Supers, is that GURPS starts to break down as you move >away from the heroic human level. Perhaps it works differently in, say, >the World of Darkness adaptations. Ya....GURPS gets kinda unbalanced above human-starting level. ::shudders in fear at his friend's 4532 point character. 18 years...ick:: My impression is that IN might work >better as a Hero adaptation, except that no one (most especially myself) >has the time it would take to build all of the resonances and attunements >from the powers list. I'll take a look into it. I really like Hero System. If ya interested, gimme a ring. if yer on ICQ, #21461848, say hi, :) ~`~`<@ The only thing sadder than a fallen rose, is a fallen angel. Cove Nightbane, Malakim of Eli in service to Blandine Guardian of the Dreamforest ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 05:03:23 PST From: "Cove Nightsbane" Subject: IN> skills, thrills and munchkin chills Elizabeth Bartley said stuff: >Hear, hear! Personally, I would add some CP to be spent on *useful* >things as well. I think if I ran a game I'd tell people to spend 36 CP on >useful skills or attunements, 18 CP on songs or attunements, and 18 CP on >background skills such as artistry, knowledges, and languages. It ought >to be able to create a generalist who isn't basically useless. Umm...I may be getting callous from spending too much times in dreams, but, "What do you think we are, *HUMANS*?!?" Guys, we all angels. We were created by higher powers to serve a purpose. "Hi, guys, I'm a Malakite, created to seen baddies and whup 'em up." Why would God bother to give said Malakite Knowledge(Greco-Roman Pottery)/3? I mean, we can learn, but starting characters are supposed to be relatively young. Not fresh-off-the-boat, we've been around a bit... ::points to his Artistry(Gemcarving)/2:: but we're no Janus. ~`~`<@ The only thing sadder than a fallen rose, is a fallen angel. Cove Nightbane, Malakim of Eli in service to Blandine Guardian of the Dreamforest ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 05:06:17 PST From: "Cove Nightsbane" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Prince of Fools Humbly ours, -ALD > What are we to make of Saminga? > Here is a Demon prince, one of the most powerful beings in the >universe-- and one of the very few to earn that status through his own >cleverness rather than through being created with inherant power. Presumably, >he has forces galore, and truly hellacious stats (as much as the current stat >rules apply to Superiors). > And yet, we're supposed to believe he's a paranoid idiot. ("Saminga >isn't particularly bright.") > > I submit, for your approval, the concept that Saminga is not, in >fact, the fool he appears to be. He's simply quite insane (not to mention >sloppy) because he's bought the (entirely plausable) concept that no matter >what he does, *he can't lose*. > He simply has what is arguably the most powerful word in existance: >Death. We stretch most superior's words to their utmost conceptual >ramifications (Lightning, Flowers), so why not apply the same concept to >Death: the inevitable end of everything. No matter what happens with the War, >or with men's souls, all things end. Take, for example his view of Kronos: >(paraphrased) "Everyone has the same fate. Me." > Since, by that logic, it really doesn't matter *what* he does, he >might as well be as capricious as he chooses-- which comes off as stupid, >paranoid actions, since they're simply careless. Agree in most cases. I personally prefer the term 'idjit'. ~`~`<@ The only thing sadder than a fallen rose, is a fallen angel. Cove Nightbane, Malakim of Eli in service to Blandine Guardian of the Dreamforest ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 05:22:05 PST From: "Cove Nightsbane" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #992 Steve Marco asked a Q: >I have several Angelic words for which I would like your opinion on what >superior they would fall under. >Angel of the Presence Would be a fella under the Skywalker-Khalid >Angel of Purpose Um...David off the top of my head. >Angel of Divine Illumination See: Jean or Yves >Angel of Silence ::chuckles:: Um...Beleth er Vader-Khalid From the tale of Boinshe the Silent, a jewish folk tale 'fram da ould cunry' ~`~`<@ The only thing sadder than a fallen rose, is a fallen angel. Cove Nightbane, Malakim of Eli in service to Blandine Guardian of the Dreamforest ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:50:26 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Learning Songs Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >>>Whoops, I meant Soldiers. I understand there are new attuments for Soldiers to use Ethereal and Celestial Songs? One of my PCs will dance.<<< Well, he shouldn't, because it sounds like you've already (correctly) forbidden Soldiers to have Ethereal or Celestial Songs, and if you wanted to make an exception, you could have already done so. The fact that some special attunements will be published in the Liber Canticorum that allow mortals to perform Ethereal and Celestial Songs in NO way implies that now any mortal PC who wants those attunements should be able to argue that he should have them. The attunements in question are included only to provide a convenient mechanism to explain a _very_ rare situation that we presumed might come up from time to time. It is emphasized in their descriptions that Superiors very rarely grant them (with the exception of the Ethereal Connection attunement, which is what Beleth and Blandine bestow to make Dream Soldiers). "Very rarely" doesn't mean "Whenever a Soldier is really good and begs and pleads really hard and has 10 x.p.s saved up," it means those _rare_ circumstances where a Superior actually NEEDS a particular mortal to be capable of performing a particular Song, for a task that can't be done by any of his celestial Servitors. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:43:12 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Skill Packages (was Adventure Concepts) Walter Milliken wrote: > > [Jo:] > >MarkDEddy wrote: > > > >>I have a house rule that helps with that problem. Instead of requiring > >>characters to buy skills to fill a Role, the Role includes a number of > >>skills inherent in the Role equal to the level of the Role at the Role's > >level. > >>(i.e., Police Detective/3 has firearms/3, investigation/3, and knowledge: > >>police procedures/3.) > > > >I like this a lot! It does get past the problem of how someone could have a > >high level high status role without the skills to back it up. > > I'm pretty sure the Role mechanics say that Roles automatically include > the necessary skills for the Role. There aren't really any details, but > Mark's "house rule" is, I think, fairly close to canon. What you get is the 'general' set of skills necessary to the Role, but not the specific ones that are useful to many Roles. So you get investigation and police procedure, yes, but not Firearms. Basically, if the skill already exists, you have to buy it, but if it is much more role specific, then it comes with the Role. The example I like to use is a Lawyer Role. This would include the laws of the country the Role was from, the various procedures of the legal system and details on how to charge clients and how to 'work the system'. It does not include Fast Talk, Lying, or Savoir-Faire as these are general skills listed in the book. After saying all of this, what Mark is doing isn't BAD, except that it might encourage people to get ridiculously high levels of Role to cash in on a bunch of 'free' skills. It's not canon, but it's his campaign! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:48:01 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Learning Songs Mischa Krilov wrote: > > At 09:35 PM 10/22/98 -0400, David Edelstein wrote: > > >The Liber Canticorum will introduce rules for doing this. (Basically, it > >takes a certain number of weeks and then a roll to see if the student > >successfully learned the Song.) > > A number of weeks? Eh. I probably can't convince anyone to release than > information, other than my guarantee that I'm buying the book, sight unseen > anyway. :) Is it based off of Perception/Intelligence, or what? Heh. Actually, right off the top of my head, I can't remember. However Songmasters can teach Songs in mere moments. > > >>>>Obviously, mortals couldn't use a non-Corporeal Song if this were > >true,<<< > > > >Mortals _can't_ normally use non-Corporeal Songs. > > Whoops, I meant Soldiers. I understand there are new attuments for Soldiers > to use Ethereal and Celestial Songs? One of my PCs will dance. Yup. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:15:38 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: IN> Re: Angelic Words At 09:37 PM 10/24/98 PDT, Steve Marco wrote: >I have several Angelic words for which I would like your opinion on what >superior they would fall under. There are, as usual, lots of superiors which the words could apply to, depending on the aspect of the word. Here are my suggestions. >Angel of the Presence Dominic? The idea of Presence suggests overview, criticism and Judgement. or maybe one of Gabriel's escorts/assistants, back from when she was the divine messenger. >Angel of Purpose Yves: purpose being the drive towards destiny or Jean: representing technological drive (dedicated inventors) >Angel of Divine Illumination Again, one of Gabriel's escorts (mixing the idea of a messenger with the light of Fire) Dominic: illuminating the truth >Angel of Silence Blandine: as part of the trappings of peaceful sleep David: this may sound odd, but Silence seems to me indicative of passive strength. Hope this gives you some ideas. Peter Witney peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk To share with each other / Virtues ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:29:22 +0100 From: Rhodri James Subject: Re: IN> GURPS In Nomine In article <199810232219.SAA22453@wolfe.bbn.com>, Walter Milliken wrote: > I don't think there's any hope it would work any better in Hero, at > least as far as point-balance goes. I gave up on Hero before I became a > GURPS player, because I became convinced that that approach to > "balanced" starting characters just didn't work. And either GURPS or > Hero will work about equally well simply as a descriptive system for > powers and mechanics. (I'd argue GURPS will actually be better, but > I've seen GURPS/Hero flame wars, and know this is strictly a matter of > gaming religion....) Actually, I think it's more a matter of horses for courses. GURPS models the heroic "realistic" genre campaign very well; Hero models the superheroic "cinematic" genre campaign very well; each breaks down badly as it approaches other's area of excellence. For instance, it's hard to kill someone under the Hero system, even when scaled down to "heroic" levels, without invoking unusual levels of mightiness of weaponry and poorness of armour or some other special rules. On the other hand, it's easy to kill someone in GURPS scaled up to "superheroic" levels unless you invoke time-honoured kludges about stun damage. This cuts both ways -- under Hero it is virtually impossible for a normal to take out a super, whereas under GURPS it is merely extremely difficult. The two systems probably wouldn't present anything much different as far as point-balance goes, I agree. The difference I would expect is that under GURPS-IN, celestials would likely be able to trash normal humans relatively trivially at some risk of being trashed themselves, while under Hero-IN, although it would be fairly easy to take out a human it would no longer be trivial, and the celestial would be pretty hard to take out. That said, the flavour of campaign you want makes the choice of system for you. On the whole, the relative "normality" of getting vessel-killed suggests that GURPS is the right system to go for. - -- Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste herder to the masses If you don't know who I work for, you can't misattribute my words to them ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:26:23 From: latvia25@yahoo.com Subject: IN> FREE INTERNET ACCESS! 100% FREE INTERNET ACCESS http://freewwweb-access.com/freeweb.cgi?id=2109-69 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #993 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.