From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Oct 30 12:59:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09230 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:59:34 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA27439 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:38:10 -0600 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:38:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199810301838.MAA27439@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #998 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, October 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 998 In this digest: IN> Re: IN- Kyrioatates of Laurence Attunement IN> Re: IN- A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously IN> Re: IN- A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously IN> Re: IN- a little revelations humor IN> Re: IN- A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously IN> Breathless... Re: IN> symphony question IN> IN- disease question IN> another symphony question Re: IN> Kyriotates-careless children? IN> Re: IN- [Fiction] Garden of Fire RE: IN> symphony question IN> Re: IN- symphony question IN> Symphonic Disturbance Re: IN> another symphony question Re: IN> another symphony question IN> Renegades IN> Microscopic hosts IN> Sypmhonic background noise (was: symphony question) Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> Re: IN- [Fiction] Garden of Fire Re: IN> Kyriotates-careless children? Re: IN> Microscopic hosts Re: IN> Sypmhonic background noise (was: symphony question) Re: IN> Renegades IN> funny game quotes and questions Re: IN> funny game quotes and questions Re: IN> A symbol question Re: IN> Sypmhonic background noise (was: symphony question) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:31:19 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Kyrioatates of Laurence Attunement >Here's a stumper (because it sure isn't in the book): What level vessel does a >Kyrio of Laurence get? >Thanks much and have fun, >Trey Palmer Ok, as an amatuer In Nomine GM (as I have been so far unable to convince my players to *pay* me for services rendered) who can't spell to save his life. (Amateur, amoture, amiteure, whatever), IMO and IMC, based upon the fact that humans get Vessel level = to their Corp Forces IIRC (and I don't know what's said in Night Music abt soldiers and vessel levels) I would say that the Kyriotate of Laurence would receive a Vessel level = to his Corp forces level. Or, alternatively, at whatever level Laurence *wants* it at. :) "What? My Vessel level is equal to my skill in Large Weapon Sword?!" "Are you implying that you might now something, citizen? Mark off another vessel." "But!" "Take Dissonance." - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:39:08 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously [Shedim] > For one thing, while other demons are merely selfish, the Shedim are actually >evil. They have a deep-seated drive to corrupt. They love it. Most demons only >care about themselves. The Shedim are all about other people. Shedim, on the other hand, have fallen from a >choir that seems to have no purpose, and in doing so, gain one. I offer an alternative hypothesis: GOD >came up with the Shedim first, liking the idea of a possessing, corrupting >demon, then invented the Kyrios so the Shedim would have something to fall >from. how odd... my thoughts exactly... > It's a diseased little theory that even I don't take too seriously, but it's >the only reason I could think of that a friendly and conscientious being as >the Kyriotate could become a gleefully corrupt monster like the Shedite. The >Shedite must have potentially been there all along. The ultimate demon, >existing only to corrupt, sleeping inside an angel, waiting only for a fall to >awaken it. > Well, everyone, tell me what you think. > Yours, > Brian A Rogers SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK!!! I like it. :) - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flower serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:39:19 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously [Shedim] > For one thing, while other demons are merely selfish, the Shedim are actually >evil. They have a deep-seated drive to corrupt. They love it. Most demons only >care about themselves. The Shedim are all about other people. Shedim, on the other hand, have fallen from a >choir that seems to have no purpose, and in doing so, gain one. I offer an alternative hypothesis: GOD >came up with the Shedim first, liking the idea of a possessing, corrupting >demon, then invented the Kyrios so the Shedim would have something to fall >from. how odd... my thoughts exactly... > It's a diseased little theory that even I don't take too seriously, but it's >the only reason I could think of that a friendly and conscientious being as >the Kyriotate could become a gleefully corrupt monster like the Shedite. The >Shedite must have potentially been there all along. The ultimate demon, >existing only to corrupt, sleeping inside an angel, waiting only for a fall to >awaken it. > Well, everyone, tell me what you think. > Yours, > Brian A Rogers SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK!!! I like it. :) - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:41:25 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- a little revelations humor Ha! Kick-ass. >As i was going to st. Ives >I met a beast with seven heads >the seven heads had seven horns >the seven horns had seven diadems >the seven diadems had blasphemous names >names diadems horns heads >how many were going to st ives > > >Ben, Bright Lilim of LARPs serving Blandine > - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:44:22 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously >> The Kyrio, like a child, doesn't know how to share. "Get out of that body! >>It's mine!" The Shedite has learned to cooperate, and work with others. > >Actually, I see it the other way around -- Shedim are singular because >if they had multiple streams of consciousness, they'd fragment into >separate individuals (due to the demonic core of self). I.e., Shedim >can no longer share (multiple minds). However, this would suggest that >a falling Kyrio might fragment into multiple Shedim, which doesn't >happen in canon. > > >---Walter Depends on who's firing the cannon! Heh heh heh... - -Perry, K of F serving C and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea. Wow... that's kinda eerie... Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:56:34 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Breathless... Here's a neat thought. How long can a Celestial hold its breath? I'd say, # min. = Strength Characteristic. Rationale? Average Human -> four minutes yields brain death. Impudite: "You f*@king moron, how long have you been holding the squishy under??" Calabite: (looks at watch) "Maybe three minutes? Why?" Impudite: "Idiot, she'll never talk if you kill her!" *and I'll get dissonance if I let her die like this...* Avg human has two Corp forces, thus 4 four strength. Coincidence? Maybe, but that doesn't matter. - -Perry, Kyriotate of Blowers serving Freation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea. Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:07:09 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> symphony question On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > Another important point is that she was lying. It wasn't to avoid > disturbance she wanted your man to kill him, but to avoid dissonance. The > disturbance of going Celestial and back was surely more than the > disturbance of killing her previous servant. Actually, it's REALLY HARD to be more noisy than the death of a human. Personally, I imagine the IC aspect of that disturbance to be more of a sudden silence, like what Obi-wan said on Star Wars when Alderan was destroyed, something like 'countless voices crying out in fear, then nothing'. Sorta like somebody pulling the cord on a stereo at a party in mid-song: one of the major local themes in the symphony has just abrubtly HALTED, without the final verse of a normal death. Still, I see your point. Killing the soldier would be 10 plus his corporeal forces, for a total of 11 - 13; whereas Nicole's celestial form would be 9 for her forces plus 2 for the Essence, for a total of 11. But more importantly, anyone who heard it would be more interested in a human's death than a celestial form. CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:09:11 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> IN- disease question Can angels contract rabies? I've been searching for canon on this issue... So far as I can tell, only Demons can get rabies. I'm not sure where I read that, but I'm pretty sure I did. Might have been in The Marches... And if they can, if they take all the shots to kills it, does it disturb the symphony? And if so, how fast does this disturbance travel? Do I need to know current barometric readings? How does the weather affect the "speed of disturbance"?? - -Perry, KFC Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:22:43 -0500 From: Setzer Gabbiani Subject: IN> another symphony question just one more question i need clarification on. Say a demon fired a howitzer at a range of say five miles and it exploded into a city block killing a bunch of people. This would obviously cause a disturbance but where? would it be where the shell hit or where the demon was currently or even where the demon was when they fired it? is it like a cybergeneration virtuality sign saying fugitive here or is it kind of like a general emergency warning? Ben, Bright Lilim of LARPs serving Blandine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:19:39 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates-careless children? On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Peter Witney wrote: > These arguments over Kyriotates possessing humans really seem to rely on > the idea that humans are the be-all end-all of celestial work on earth. I > think Jordi especially, but almost all the other Archangels would disagree > with that. They principally use human hosts, doing so to accomplish their > jobs. I may have inadvertently phrased it that way, but I certainly don't see it that way. Kyrios can possess anything living, and depending on their superior, might not even have THAT limitation. They can take on the identity of anything in the symphony, and both gain an intimate understanding of it, and steer it in the direction that it needs to go. And because of their dissonance, any Kyriotate that sacrifices the good of their host for a greater cause won't stay a Kyriotate. Unlike some other angels, Kyriotates never forget that the littlest things can still matter. > Humans are given rolls to avoid Kyriotate possession because it's > instinctual, not because they consciously want to bar an angel from taking > over. Many humans would be honoured to know an angel wanted to work through > them. Well, I might be honored that an angel has a personal interest in me, but I still wouldn't be keen on the idea of being ridden. I think any human who knew that was happening would feel like he'd been raped. That is was part of God's plan would probably make him feel worse: being violated by a demon lets you blame someone who deserves it, but being violated by an angel make the whole universe seem unfair. > By not keeping the human's consciousness in the vessel, however, the > Kyriotate is protecting the host. It prevents the host witnessing literally > diabolical things, it prevents feelings of split-personality and lack of > control. In return for the use of his body, the human gets several extra > days in (presumably) Blandine's side of the Marches- quite a nice holiday, > I think. How'd you like it if you woke up one morning and found out there were three days you couldn't remember? The Marches could be a nice place to stay for the time, but the memory block combined with people asking about your odd behavior would be pretty disturbing. However, it is better than the alternative. The Kyrio just has to be careful with the memory block; if he does it right, the host might just thing it was an uneventful week that he can't recall any details about. CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:16:49 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- [Fiction] Garden of Fire >From: Ijon Tichy >Subject: Re: IN> [Fiction] Garden of Fire >>> The story is actually a projection of what may >>>happen if our group Okay, cool, just one question, how on earth could a demon bring Soul death to angel so quickly??? (The wheels in Perry's head turning, let's see, avg angel, Cele forces 3, Will 6, so that's Soul hits of 18, even in situation able to bring soul death to an angel the most fast is: 18pts, +8pts, then +2pts, for a total of 28pts of Soul damage, but the liklihood of this is only 1 out of 9. Well, that's not sooo... bad, but... OTOH, the GM did it...) - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:25:11 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: RE: IN> symphony question On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Matthew Stein wrote: > I wouldn't think so (then again, I don't think eating a sandwich could > cause disturbances, either). Here's why: disturbances, as far I can > tell, only occur when a celestial does something whacked that changes > the Symphony, right, and isn't covered by a roll? (Which is why, by > the way, that I think if there's a celestial in a roll as a police > officer, and he's forced to shoot a felon (and kills the guy, by > mistake) then it wouldn't send out disturbances across the Symphony, > at least IMC.) So the roll acts as mask, right. Now, given that the > majority of society knows what antibiotics do (besides, I've been sick > and had non-doctor friends tell me that I needed antibiotics), and the > person that the celestial gives the antibiotics to (assuming that the > celestial is really giving them antibiotics as opposed to some demonic > and angelic version thereof) knows what they do, I wouldn't think so. > Then again, I don't think that eating a big sandwich fast - even from > a Demon of Gluttony - would cause a disturbance. Everyone knows what a gun and a bullet is for, but that doesn't mean using them to kill a human won't cause a disturbance. If a human dies directly because of a celestial's actions, it causes a disturbance because the actual sounds of the symphony diverge suddenly from where they were supposed to go. Same thing with giving antibiotics to someone, but here the GM sanity clause comes into play; you'd need a celestial stethescope to hear THAT tiny a disturbance. > > _______________________________Matt._______________________________ > [Angel of Weird Ideas, servant of Eli, kind of kicking it for now.] > > CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:22:27 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- symphony question >At 11:12 AM -0500 10/29/98, Setzer Gabbiani wrote: > >>this raises yet another question. if an angel gives somebody some >>antibiotics, assuming no role as a doctor, they may be helping the person >>but they are killing a bunch of bacteria does this cause noise? > >I doubt bacteria have 4 Body... I don't know... I've met some *pretty big* bacteria in my day... - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:13:42 -0600 From: Brent Subject: IN> Symphonic Disturbance Here's another fun question.... if a celestial acts to save a mortal's life when the mortal was *supposed* to die of natural causes, does that create a disturbance? Nicole implies this in "A Bright Dream," but I don't remember anything canonical about it. - -Brent, pondering the effects P.S. A Malakite of Michael in my campaign watched 'The Shawshank Redemption' and walked around for weeks afterward saying "Put your trust in the Lord, boys; but your asses belong to me." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:18:27 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> another symphony question On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Setzer Gabbiani wrote: > just one more question i need clarification on. Say a demon fired a > howitzer at a range of say five miles and it exploded into a city block > killing a bunch of people. This would obviously cause a disturbance but > where? would it be where the shell hit or where the demon was currently or > even where the demon was when they fired it? is it like a cybergeneration > virtuality sign saying fugitive here or is it kind of like a general > emergency warning? I'd say it happens where the shell hits. I think of disturbance as notes that /could/ be part of the natural symphony but are showing up in the wrong place at the wrong time; rather like a drummer starting his solo while the second verse is still going. The shell produces huge ripples from the fractured forces and shattered patterns, as well as the celestial death screams of several humans followed by that eerie silence (like the comparison to Obi-wan sensing the destruction of Alderan earlier). All that happens at the point of detonation. If the angels trying to find the rat bastard who fired it, if they're really lucky he blew lots of essence on his ranged weapon: artillery roll. Or if he's a Calabite (who else would do something like this?), he's likely to leave some sort of trail of destruction. Or maybe they just heard the THUMP of the cannon firing. ;) CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:36:30 +0100 (CET) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> another symphony question On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Setzer Gabbiani wrote: > just one more question i need clarification on. Say a demon fired a > howitzer at a range of say five miles and it exploded into a city block > killing a bunch of people. This would obviously cause a disturbance but > where? would it be where the shell hit or where the demon was currently or > even where the demon was when they fired it? is it like a cybergeneration > virtuality sign saying fugitive here or is it kind of like a general > emergency warning? Under Echoes, p. 55 in the basic book, it says "[As long as he can hear the echoes of strong disturbance] the tracker may be led to the physical site of the disturbance, or the celestial who caused it, or to both in succession." I'd say the disturbance would be where the shell hits, but anyone who hears this (massive) disturbance might be led towards the demon as well. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:11:23 -0900 From: "Bruce A. Kleven" Subject: IN> Renegades Do Renegades keep attunements and distindtions, or are they gone? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:34:15 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: IN> Microscopic hosts On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Perry Lloyd wrote: > >At 11:12 AM -0500 10/29/98, Setzer Gabbiani wrote: > > > >>this raises yet another question. if an angel gives somebody some > >>antibiotics, assuming no role as a doctor, they may be helping the > person > >>but they are killing a bunch of bacteria does this cause noise? > > > >I doubt bacteria have 4 Body... > > I don't know... I've met some *pretty big* bacteria in my day... Pardon me while I whip my imagination into submission... This comment made me think of the 'superbugs' we're breeding with our antibiotics, which are basically accelerating natural selection the evolution of these bacteria strains. But I was thinking, "bacteria won't have much in the way of body, just some buffly immunities to some things, kinda like the immunities that celestial... vessels... have... Oh F**K!" (Raise your hand if you cansee where this is going yet...) I suddenly started imagining a Kyriotate, possibly of Jordi, who started possessing colonies of bacteria. Having considerable corporeal forces, the bacteria are inherently tougher, and also require far less biological maintenance than normal. Meaning they're harder to kill with drugs, and can go dormant and let the patient appear to recover, then flare up any time. Also, they could survive outside of a body for much longer, making infection much easier. He could keep doing this, by letting the bacteria breed normally and then possessing the descenants when he runs out of time with the last batch. A single Kyriotate of Jordi could be responsible for an entire plague. The kicker is, how do we interpret the Kyrio dissonance restriction in this case? Is he okay as long as the colony as a whole in thriving? Or does he get dissonance for every bacteria that dies from antibiotics while he's riding it? Another possibility is a celestial is a vessel of a microbe, who uses the celestial song of fruition to create a Nephallim-strain of the infection disease of your choice... In either case, ew. CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:02:43 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: IN> Sypmhonic background noise (was: symphony question) On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Jayson Howell wrote: > Actually, no. Symphonic disturbance is independent of intervening > physical structures. Disturbance travels equally well through 1000 > meters of lead, 1000 meters of air, or 1000 meters of space. The > arguement could be made that in an isolated environment, the > perceiving individual is more inclined to notice a disturbance, but > the disturbance itself is not amplified, muted, or altered in range in > any regard. Disturbances happen across the corporeal realm > independent of electromagnetic or gravitic fields. (Which pretty much > takes care of ANYTHING we know of in our universe.) I'm not talking about barriers. Anything that exists has it's own theme in the symphony. My hypothesis is the background noise generated by good ol' corporeal reality makes hearing disturbances in the symphony a little more difficult. In a void, like deep space, there's less of everything: matter, energy, gravity, etc, meaning less background noise in the symphony, thus disturbances would be easier to hear over greater distances. > > > > I'd like to see you tell Jordi and Novalis to their faces that > nothing's > > going on out in the wilderness... ;) Joking aside, the wilderness is > still > > an incredibly active place. Remember, the symphony includes > EVERYTHING, > > not just what humans are up to. > > Indeed, the Wilderness is teeming with essence and the Symphony in > motion, it is NOT as filled with Symphonic *disturbance* though, as > this is only caused by celestial intervention. Certainly there is > some, but compared to the celestial actions in populous areas, this is > greatly reduced. Again, I think you misunderstood me. When I talk about background noise, I'm not talking about miscellaneous other ripples from miscellaneous other celestials; I'm talking about the natural sounds of the symphony that hum along even when no celestials are around. And a wilderness, even a desert (filled with more life and activity than many would expect), has just as loud and varied a natural symphony as a city. As for the glacier, as I explained the activity level of reality in such a spot may be low enough for the natural symphony to be noticeably quieter, perhaps making disturbance easier to hear. > Anywhere that the Symphony is > allowed to play unchequed is by definition not making any noise at > all. Isolation should be based on the lack of background celestial > interference, not the presence of Symphonic energies. I have to disagree with that statement: As I said above, everything that exists has its own theme in the symphony. The symphony doesn't consist just of what celestials do to it; all celestial powers, IMHO, work by perceiving or modifying the existing symphony. Perception-based resonances work my mentally focusing on a particular theme and analyzing it; Will-based resonances work by forcing a particular part of the symphony into a particular patterm. Songs work by temporarily adding a new theme to the symphony, which causes reality to behave a certain way. Her's an example: You're having a party in your backyard. Lots of music, lots of people, lots of activity. At one point, you step on a twig and snap it. You hear it, and maybe the guy next to you does, but any farther than that and the noise of the party drowns it out. But to you and your buddy who're within earshot of it, it stands out because it's not a normal party sound. A while later, you take a break from the party and go around the house to the front yard. Alot quieter, but you can still hear the party. somebody else had the same idea as you, and steps on a twig. You're maybe ten feet away, but you can hear it because there's less background noise to overwhelm it. Hours later, the party's over, and you're cleaning up. You're picking up trash in the corner of the yard by the fence, and one of your neighbors is outside doing whatever. HE steps on the infamous twig this time. Because it's late at night and dead quiet, you can hear the snap from alot farther away than in either of the above scenarios. Think of the snapping twig as any symphonic disturbance. The first scenario is almost anywhere on Earth: with all the natural activity, the sound still stands out as unnatural, but is drowned out by the natural symphony past any signifigant distance. The second scenario is like a truly barren spot on Earth, one with almost nothing going on in the bio-, atmo-, hydro-, or lithospheres: The planet itself still has its own theme, and there's always SOMEthing happening, bu the natural symphony is still quiet enough for disturbances to be noticeably easier to detect. The third scenario would be like deep space: With practically nothing at all going on, the sypmhony would consist only of the faint notes from distance planets and stars, the subtle wisper of solar wind, and the slow, quiet bass line of gravity. In such an environment, any celestial disturbance would be as jarring as a firecracker in an empty church, and would be much easier to detect and identify at much greater distances than anywhere else. I hope I got my point across more clearly this time. Any other reactions to my background noise hypothesis? Any comments or rule suggestions from someone official (looking over the crowd trying to spot Ms. McCoy... :) CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:14:43 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: Re: IN> symphony question At 10:07 PM 10/29/98 -0800, you wrote: >Still, I see your point. Killing the soldier would be 10 plus his >corporeal forces, for a total of 11 - 13; whereas Nicole's celestial form >would be 9 for her forces plus 2 for the Essence, for a total of 11. But >more importantly, anyone who heard it would be more interested in a >human's death than a celestial form. > Definitely not. The untimely death of a human, coinciding almost exactly with someone going celestial? That would be something to investigate. I also suspect it would cascade: "When several symphony-changing actions take place together, or nearly together... treat each one as a new event that includes all the preceding ones." (IN.55) That's going to be one big set of ripples. Pete peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk Shedim of Kobal, in service to the Demon of Critics ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:19:23 +0200 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- [Fiction] Garden of Fire At 08:16 30/10/98 , you wrote: >Okay, cool, just one question, how on earth could a demon bring Soul >death to angel so quickly??? Diabolical intervention. Qouting Mariel's player: "I attack it celestially. The check digit is six! Err, so are the other two..." Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:03:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates-careless children? Daniel Maberry wrote: > Well, I might be honored that an angel has a personal interest in > me, but I still wouldn't be keen on the idea of being ridden. I > think any human who knew that was happening would feel like he'd > been raped. That is was part of God's plan would probably make > him feel worse: being violated by a demon lets you blame someone > who deserves it, but being violated by an angel make the whole > universe seem unfair. The impression I got from the Kyrio write-up in the main book was that human hosts were usually either very transitory -- minutes or seconds of occupation -- or volunteers, servitors of the Kyrio in question. Randomly robbing human hosts of large chunks of time mighgt steer dangerously near the Kyrio dissonance condition of harming the host; yeah, maybe "harming" just means physical harm, but the attitude that dumps a lost weekend on an innocent bystander still looks headed for dissonance. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:56:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Microscopic hosts Cute concept. Could give a whole new meaning to "biological warface." Daniel Maberry wrote: > The kicker is, how do we interpret the Kyrio dissonance restriction > in this case? Is he okay as long as the colony as a whole in > thriving? Or does he get dissonance for every bacteria that dies > from antibiotics while he's riding it? Since a swarm of insects is viewed as a single host for purposes of Kyrio possession, I'd suppose the general health of the whole colony is what counts. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:41:10 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> Sypmhonic background noise (was: symphony question) No, I got the idea the first time. I'm not debating the view of background symphonic disturbance even remotely. I'm debating the definition of how it functions. As for the wilderness granting a bonus for perception of disturbance, it's not because it's devoid of the Symphony, but because it is devoid of disturbance. Let's take that twig snapping. In the city, who would care? There's noise everywhere. Even in a quiet area with random sounds, it won't be noticed much. In a concert hall, you'd likely have a number of people take note... it's got less noise, more pure symphony. Even if the symphony you're listening to is twice as loud as the random noise outside, the twig stands out more. In space, even a higher bonus. Very remote, the symphony is softer. The same twig snapping would not create more noise, the sound would not carry any further, the decibal level is identical. (For purposes of this arguement, I'm allowing sound to travel in a vacuum.) That's what I'm debating. I don't think the disturbance should be greater, or the range multiplied by anything. I think a celestial should simply receive a bonus to perception. Now granted, since the range at which one can detect a disturbance is based partly on perception, this would increase the detectable range, but *not* the level of the disturbance. In most cases, this distinction won't matter much, but consider that if you had say, 4 or 5 cumulative disturbances, suddenly this makes a difference. Adding +2 to the level of each disturbance grants a very different result than just giving a +2 perception bonus to each celestial. (I use +2 because the In Nomine rules give this as the standard bonus for a Very Easy roll...) - Jayson - ---Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> wrote: > I hope I got my point across more clearly this time. Any other reactions > to my background noise hypothesis? Any comments or rule suggestions from > someone official (looking over the crowd trying to spot Ms. McCoy... :) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 07:23:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> Renegades Distinctions are gone. Servitor and Band attunements, powers granted by the Superior are gone. Attunements from being word bound would remain so long as the binding to the word remains. - Jayson - ---"Bruce A. Kleven" wrote: > > Do Renegades keep attunements and distindtions, or are they gone? > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:56:43 PST From: "Steve Marco" Subject: IN> funny game quotes and questions Dear Everybody, Check this out "It is not pleasureable for me to do this, but if it is the only was to bring you to you senses, so be it." - -Elohim of Destiny beating the tar out of a discordant Mecurian "Leave me alone, don't touch me...SMITE!!!" - -Cherub of Fire scortching the tar out of said discordant Mecurian "Yo quero Gabriel?" - -Ofanite of Fire whose vessel was "transformed a little" "Don't do that, that would make a loud noise, and that would suck." - -Cherub of Protection to Malakim of War carring a rocket launcher "I'm taking a swing at Belial" - -Foolish Ofanite of Fire about to go through Corporeal Death What would you guys do if one of your player characters asked Gabriel out on a date? Thanks Alot, The Seraphican Steve Marco "If the people we love are taken from us, the way we can have them live on, is to never stop loving them. Buildings burn, people die...but real love lasts forever." The Crow ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:11:20 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> funny game quotes and questions Sounds like you guys know how to have fun with Gabriel's crowd. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:00:53 EST From: Usriel@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A symbol question I think that I ran across your cross this week. If it is this cross: ++ ++ ++++++ ++++++ ++ ++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ Then it is called the Lorraine Cross. I don't know what it means, though. Hopefully, the name will help you on your search. Bryan Utley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:40:14 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Maberry <98fa040@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Sypmhonic background noise (was: symphony question) On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Jayson Howell wrote: > As for the wilderness granting a bonus for perception of disturbance, > it's not because it's devoid of the Symphony, but because it is devoid > of disturbance. Let's take that twig snapping. In the city, who > would care? There's noise everywhere. Even in a quiet area with > random sounds, it won't be noticed much. In a concert hall, you'd > likely have a number of people take note... it's got less noise, more > pure symphony. Even if the symphony you're listening to is twice as > loud as the random noise outside, the twig stands out more. Okay, I think you have a point here... Although they way I'd personally represent the situation with a disturbance in a city vs. a forest would be that in a city where every celestial knows there's plenty others, a minor disturbance here and there is no less noticeable, but more likely to ignored; whereas in the forest even a little burned essence would make one want to know where it came from. > > In space, even a higher bonus. Very remote, the symphony is softer. > The same twig snapping would not create more noise, the sound would > not carry any further, the decibal level is identical. (For purposes > of this arguement, I'm allowing sound to travel in a vacuum.) What's the big deal? it just travels through the ether like light waves do. :) > I don't think the disturbance should be greater, > or the range multiplied by anything. I think a celestial should > simply receive a bonus to perception. Now granted, since the range at > which one can detect a disturbance is based partly on perception, this > would increase the detectable range, but *not* the level of the > disturbance. Okay, I think this might be where we confused each other. I wasn't thinking of the disturbance being any louder inherently, just beefing up the perception bonus to hear it. Suppose in a particularly barren area, the GM decides that the symphony is so quiet that every disturbance is effectively 1.5 times the normal level. The friendly neighborhood Malakite of Janus blows up the weather station, causing a 10 point disturbance. For all perception rolls and range calculations, it's treated as a 15 point disturbance. However, anyone who makes the roll well enough to discern the disturbance level would know it's a 10 point, not a 15 point. The increase if just for determining how well it can be heard how far away. > In most cases, this distinction won't matter much, but consider that > if you had say, 4 or 5 cumulative disturbances, suddenly this makes a > difference. Adding +2 to the level of each disturbance grants a very > different result than just giving a +2 perception bonus to each > celestial. As in the example above, I'm starting to lean towards a flat multiplier to the disturbance level. Makes more sense to me. > (I use +2 because the In Nomine rules give this as the standard bonus > for a Very Easy roll...) On the other hand, that also has a logic consistent with existing mechanics. Maybe just figure each perception roll normally, and THEN apply bonuses like this? That way it always helps consistently without cumulatively turning successive essence burns into a symphonic train wreck. CLAVDIVS "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've A.K.A. Daniel Maberry got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." 98fa040@dvc.edu "Hit it." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #998 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.