From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Nov 4 05:16:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA17346 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:16:31 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id EAA15924 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:40:36 -0600 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:40:36 -0600 Message-Id: <199811041040.EAA15924@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1004 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, November 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1004 In this digest: Re: IN> serious yet frivilous question (long-ish) Re: IN> Learning Songs Re: IN> Breathless... Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? IN> Re: IN- In Nomine Question IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyrioatates of Laurence Attunement Re: IN> Kyriotate of....DESTINY!!!! Re: IN> Liber Servitorum Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? IN> Angel of Premature Infants Re: IN> Renegades Re: IN> The First Malakim IN> Re: IN- Re: Sex, lies and Celestials IN> Re: IN- How would you ... IN> Re: IN- Monkeys... (sheesh) IN> Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? IN> Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? (Having sex) IN> Re: IN- Sorcery Question Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: Sex, lies and Celestials IN> Learning Songs Re: IN> Learning Songs Re: IN> Kyriotate of....DESTINY!!!! IN> Re: IN- Breathless... Re: IN> Speaking of which... Re: IN> Learning Songs IN> Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:12:53 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: Re: IN> serious yet frivilous question (long-ish) At 12:14 PM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >Peter Witney wrote: >> 2. encourage tourists on holiday to get their photos taken with cute lil' >> monkeys on a leash to the photographer. > >This one strikes me as having a bit too much to do with live monkeys. :) If you've ever seen the life expectancies of monkeys forced into that trade: most of them die in the crates during transportation; so by encouraging the continuation of that trade, you're bringing about more monkey deaths (not very) indirectly and, as a kobal sort of thing, the idea of such holiday cuteness causing inhumane suffering must be quite popular. > >> Monkey dance: an ethereal attack which, if the victim fails a intelligence > roll, makes them rock and flounce around in the manner of a monkey. Close > range only. Monkey pain was my thought. But you're right. > >This one is also a bit too live for my tastes. The Angel of Monkeys >might have it, though... in fact, I think I'm going to modify it >slightly, if you don't mind, for one of her attunements. > >...So what d'you think? > >-EDG Moderately sick is an understatement. I'm not sure if any celestial lower than an Archangel is able to create angels with specific choir attunements. Ditto Demon Princes and bands. However, I presume that the angel of Monkeys has been around for a very long time and, of course, it's your game. The demon of monkeys can, however, only have been around for a few millennia maximum because of the date of Saminga's rise. I'm not sure about the Balseraph's attunement, being too close to truth, rather than false reality. The Impudite attunement is more likely to be connected to the Impudite's Charm ability, than the Mercurian resonance. I don't think that Habbalites would want to punish people who kill monkeys, because this would harm Gim's word. They're more likely to make people mistreat monkey's then leave them to face the consequences and shame. Bit nit-picky, I know, but I hope it helps. Pete peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk Shedim of Kobal, in service to the Demon of Critics ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:24:14 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: Re: IN> Learning Songs At 08:46 PM 11/2/98 +0000, Steve wrote: > "If it never happens, my cool idea won't work. If it >happens often, game consistency is stuffed. Hence, it only happens _very_ >rarely." > I suspect that superiors don't want humans running around with amazing abilities. They are less easy to find (no hearts and cause less disturbance) less easy to control (conflicting duties) and, being human, a lot more corruptable and dangerous. >The criticisms which come up over the IN product line can often be tracked >back to insufficient use of the word 'because'. Adding too many "because"s would damage the game, leaving GMs with less room to manoeuver and taking away some important fuzzy areas of the genre. It also limits future supplements. I don't find anything wrong with rules dictates from on high, as long as they are put there for playability and subject to alteration after play-testing. In this case, free allocation of songs to humans would seriously alter the balance of power in the game, reducing the mystique and strength of celestials. If you want humans to have songs, let them use song grenades (liber reliquium). Peter Witney peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk To share with each other / Virtues ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:16:51 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Breathless... Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: > Well, in the sidebar on Celestial Vessels (p48). it does say "A vessel does > breathe, though. It is still physical flesh, and must be nourished > somehow.." Now I'm having visions of Celestial Vessels as filter-feeders, > pulling nutrients out of the organic dust, pollen, and microbes in the > air... I never liked that exact description for the reason. I prefer to think that the breath is _symbolic_ of life and the soul. So much so, that vessels must have this breathing to connect them to the Symphony properly. Servitors of David might disagree, however! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:19:00 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? Jo Hart wrote: > I dunno about you but if I woke up one morning to find out that I was > pregnant and didn't remember anything about it, I'd be mildly concerned. > What if 2 Kyrio's borrow a body each (of opposite genders) and reproduce > for them, before leaving? Why use two Kyrios when a Force-10 one is enough to do the whole job? =) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 06:32:41 PST From: "Cove Nightsbane" Subject: IN> Re: IN- In Nomine Question >What happens to the vessel of a non-Kyriotate who acquires the Kyriotate >multiplicity resonance? Is it treated like a "standard" Kyriotate vessel, >requiring some of the angel's forces all the time, or more like the stone >vessels of David's Kyriotates (vanishing when not in the vessel)? I don't know about you, but *my* mind can't bend that way. Kyrioates are unique in their abilities and not ever their closest, the Shedim, can imitate it. I'm not let another choose the Kyrioate Resonance/Dissonance. ~`~`<@ The only thing sadder than a fallen rose, is a fallen angel. Cove Nightbane, Malakim of Eli in service to Blandine Guardian of the Dreamforest ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 06:38:21 PST From: "Cove Nightsbane" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyrioatates of Laurence Attunement Perry spake: >"What? My Vessel level is equal to my skill in Large Weapon Sword?!" >"Are you implying that you might now something, citizen? Mark off >another vessel." >"But!" >"Take Dissonance." In Nomine Paranoia In Nomine Paranoia ::blinks:: NO, PLEASE, NO!!! ::hides:: ~`~`<@ The only thing sadder than a fallen rose, is a fallen angel. Cove Nightbane, Malakim of Eli in service to Blandine Guardian of the Dreamforest ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:40:47 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of....DESTINY!!!! Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I'm with Karakash: the Kyrio can use them between bodies. But he > can't *keep* them. Once he's stopped possessing the exerpt, he > can't use the skill elsewhere. (As usual.) > > Further, if the other body does not have the appropriate physcial > conformation (keen nose, color-blindness or lack thereof, etc.), > then it either can't work at all, or is penalized. > > (And if the Kyrio starts possessing martial artists just for the > bennies, be sure to have Odd Things Walk In on the martial artist...) Actually, this would be an interesting twist for a story. Kyrio possessing some shmoe, getting his butt whipped. Across town, the Kyrio then possesses a martial artist... suddenly the battle is verrrrry different! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:43:36 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Liber Servitorum Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > >Paul wrote: > >> > >> The book of servitors(?) is on the horizon... > > In Nomine Liber Servitorum is indeed on the Upcoming page... > http://www.sjgames.com/newproducts/ Well hush my mouth and call me a Balseraph... ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:17:53 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? On Tue, Nov 03, 1998 at 09:19:00AM -0500, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > I dunno about you but if I woke up one morning to find out that I was > > pregnant and didn't remember anything about it, I'd be mildly concerned. > > What if 2 Kyrio's borrow a body each (of opposite genders) and reproduce > > for them, before leaving? > > Why use two Kyrios when a Force-10 one is enough to do > the whole job? =) > How do you classify this? Is it a form of masturbation? And what happens if the Kyrio leaves just afterwards. That would be bad. (Whose stupid idea was it to say that a Kyrio shouldn't get dissonance for leaving a host pregnant/a father?) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "From your first day in camp everyone will try to deceive and plunder you ... in camp no one ever does anything for nothing, no one does anything out of the generosity of his heart. You have to pay for everything. If someone proposes something that is unselfish, disinterested, you can be sure it's a dirty trick, a provocation." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:55:57 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? >How do you classify this? Is it a form of masturbation? And what happens >if the Kyrio leaves just afterwards. That would be bad. (Whose stupid idea >was it to say that a Kyrio shouldn't get dissonance for leaving a host >pregnant/a father?) I could imagine a Kyrio of Wind (or maybe Destiny) doing this though. You know the sort of deal where high-flying hard-nosed career women fall pregnant unexpectedly (or get someone pregnant, for the male version) and it changes their lives etc. Or if it is sent to answer some infertile couple's prayers for a baby by using the song of corporeal fruition, and decides to take a rather *cough* hands on approach. Or even some woman who is being abused by her boyfriend and would maybe take it for years on her own, but might find the strength to do something if she had a baby to protect. (I would still be dischuffed if this happened to me, mind you ;) ) jo And I can see you writer types have all been thinking about this kyrio/ self-impregnation scenario! What is the world coming to? ?:-P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:27:55 +0100 (CET) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > On Tue, Nov 03, 1998 at 09:19:00AM -0500, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > I dunno about you but if I woke up one morning to find out that I was > > > pregnant and didn't remember anything about it, I'd be mildly concerned. > > > What if 2 Kyrio's borrow a body each (of opposite genders) and reproduce > > > for them, before leaving? > > > > Why use two Kyrios when a Force-10 one is enough to do > > the whole job? =) > > > How do you classify this? Is it a form of masturbation? This reminds me of a book I read (The Host?) where poor people could rent their bodies to the wealthy, who would "possess" them through some kind of electronic device. The original owner of the body was aware the whole time, but couldn't control the body. In the story a woman hires the (male) protagonists body, and then takes it into her own part of time, which isn't allowed, and has sex with her own body, which is unconscious while she controls his body. Now, -that's- kinky. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:31:49 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> Angel of Premature Infants Is almost certainly an Elohite of Yves. *sigh* This is to announce that my wife gave birth to twin boys on Sunday, November 1st. Three months prematurely. George David Eddy is 1 lb, 11oz. (766 g), and Mark Dunstan Eddy is 1 lb, 9 oz. (709 g). If you have any other ideas for an Angel of Premature Infants, send them along. I could use the distraction. Thanks, Mark D. Eddy (Sr.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:24:02 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Renegades In message , Kevin Walsh writes >This is why, if I were a Prince, I'd make sure to change the passwords at >random intervals never more than a month in duration. And order low >ranking demons to smile and nod when someone shows up with an old password >and press the big red button as soon as they get a chance. > Sounds just like our university computer centre... }B) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:25:52 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> The First Malakim On Tue, Oct 20, 1998 at 02:15:30AM -0400, David Edelstein wrote: But as I said in an earlier post, it's not > been established whether the first Malakim transformed consciously, or if > it was an unconscious impulse that affected some angels and not others. I > tend to see them as the most outraged and vengeful of the Host -- the > angels that (for better or for worse) didn't even question for an instant > who was right but just roared "How DARE you defy God Himself?!" and in that > instant, were swept up in a wave of righteous fury that altered them at a > fundamental level. Maybe it was a spontaneous phenomenon, maybe it was > God's way of choosing the vanguard for the new army He'd need. > Whenever the origins of the Malakim are discussed, I think about the origins of the Habbalah. IIRC, none of the Elohim fell in the original Fall, so at least for a time, there were two Choirs that couldn't Fall, or at least had never fallen. Enter Camael. It must have been clear that Elohim weren't protected by the Word of Purity; otherwise why would some of the Elohim have turned into Malakim? So the possibility existed that Elohim could fall...and Camael didn't want that. Perhaps he wanted to reproduce the creation of the Malakim, and recognising anger as the cause of their creation, sought to create anger in himself in order to duplicate the feat...with well known results. I have to wonder how long he lived after Falling, since he appears to be dead now. Did the Princes, when they found him, recognise what had happened? Was he taken apart by Lucifer in order to see how he was put together? And is there some link between the desire of Habbalah to punish the weak, and the desire of Malakim never to suffer evil to live? Was the particular form of Habbalite madness fixed by the way Camael fell, and would they be different if another Elohite had fallen first? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "From your first day in camp everyone will try to deceive and plunder you ... in camp no one ever does anything for nothing, no one does anything out of the generosity of his heart. You have to pay for everything. If someone proposes something that is unselfish, disinterested, you can be sure it's a dirty trick, a provocation." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:08:36 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: Sex, lies and Celestials >Celestials have no sex, therefore the Malakite merely has a female vessel, >Gabriel is usually seen as female because that is the most common vessel >she is seen in, or is it that she's always in a bad mood and has VIOLENT >mood swings >Chris Smith Dude! That's it!!! Gabriel's PREGNANT!!! Whee-hee!!! Wait till my _players_ find out! >:) - -Perry, KFC Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:42:26 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- How would you ... SOOOO Non-Canon... My take on The Crow (sod TV series and the second film, this is PURE first film, baby): The Crow is a manifestation of Gabriel which sends specific souls back to earth to avenge the cruelty of its killer(s). The Crow transfers all damage which the returned soul's vessel takes to the Crow, but in the form of Discord rather than Body Hits. That Discord is them wiped clean from the Familiar. Not only does the returned soul receive the benefit of this transference of damage but the returned soul can also look through the eyes of its Familiar. Also, the returned soul is granted a Distinction, for the duration of its stay on Earth, which allows it to transfer memories from one person to the next. The chief weakness of The Crow is its Familiar. If the Familiar is injured severely, the damage which the returned soul receives can nolonger be transfered. Often the returned soul is granted an additional Corporeal Force, as well as a few combat skills, plus whatever the GM deeps appropriate. And yes,in the original movie, the cat's name is Gabriel. :) - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:13:23 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Monkeys... (sheesh) >Havarel, Angel of Monkeys >Superior: Frekoko, Angel of Apes, under Jordi >Archenemy: Gim, Demon of Dead Monkeys >Choir: Cherub(?) I would suggest Ofanite. Energy level-wise, PLUS his opposite is a Calabite. >Havarel is, as stated, a servitor of Jordi. She's been around for a >couple thousand years, appearing at various times to various cultures as >the Monkey God. Uriel says... I DON'T THINK SO. Pretending to be God is most likely a BAD thing... >Havarel will bring down her wrath - and being several thousand years >old, she's got quite a bit of wrath - on anyone abusing monkeys or using >them for evil, including cosmetics testers, smugglers, and ignorant >suburbanites. By far, though, the vast majority of her wrath is focused >on her archenemy, Gim. When he came to her attention some two hundred >years ago, she immediately started a campaign against him, and even now >one of her servitors, Biku, keeps an eye on Gim at all times. > >Havarel most often appears as a monkey trainer or a member of PETA. In >her celestial form, she resembles a winged albino marmoset. Yee-haw!!! Marmoset!!! >Attunements: >Seraph: Seraphim of Monkeys may detect, on a successful Perception roll, >whether a monkey has been mistreated, within a number of days equal to >the check digit. >Cherub: A Cherub of Monkeys gains +1 to all combat abilities when >defending a monkey, and may, on a successful Perception roll, detect any >monkeys within a (check digit x 50)-yard radius. >Ofanite: Ofanim of Havarel gain the ability to move through trees, even >to the extent of swinging from branch to branch, at the same speed at >which they normally walk. Uhhhh... is this a bonus? I had thought that swinging was FASTER than walking. I'd give them a speed bonus, like doubling their swinging speed. >Elohite: Elohim of Havarel may, on a successful Perception roll, >communicate with a single monkey for a number of minutes equal to the >check digit. ??? Angels of Jordi, I believe, normally have animal vessels and would be automatically able to communicate in tongue of the animal. >Malakite: A Malakite of Havarel has the ability to use a fairly >startling attack, the Monkey Dance. This attack, through its use of >weaving, dodging, random howls and hoots, and unexpected motion, lowers >the victim's ability to use physical actions by 2, and lowers his >Perception by 1. Unfortunately, on a failed Perception roll, witnesses >suffer the same effects. Coool! >Kyriotate: Kyriotates of Monkeys are able to possess a number of monkeys >equal to the check digit of a Perception roll for the standard >duration. However, the monkeys may not be harmed in any way during this >possession. That last bit is already part of the Kyriotate's Dissonance condition. >Mercurian: A Mercurian of Monkeys may, on a successful Perception roll, >cause a number of witnesses equal to the check digit to begin mimicking >his actions for a number of minutes equal to the check digit halved >(round down). The GM chooses the people affected. ??? Uhhhh... What? :) This seems more appropriate for a _Habbalah_ of Monkeys... - --- >Gim, Demon of Dead Monkeys >Superior: Saminga serving Kobal (and sometimes Nybbas) >Archenemy: Havarel, Angel of Monkeys >Band: Calabite >Rites: >- Bury a monkey, preferably a dead one. Why bury the dead? Zombify them!!! >- Stand at the site where at least ten monkeys were killed for an hour. >- Personally destroy one acre of monkey-inhabited rainforest. (You may >use any mechanical equipment you like, but you must be at the site of >the destruction and you must be in control of all of the equipment in >use. > >Attunements: (Yes, I know they're out of order :P) >Balseraph: Gim's Balseraphim get a bonus of 2 to their Perception to >tell how long ago a monkey has died. >Djinn: A Djinn of Dead Monkeys gains +2 to his Perception for purposes >of tracking someone who mistreats or kills monkeys. So that he can help said person, I assume... >Calabite: A Calabite of Gim is invaluable to cosmetics firms and >smugglers as a destroyer of evidence; by spending one point of Essence, >they may destroy all dead monkeys within a 100-yard radius. Wow... >Impudite: Impudites of Dead Monkeys are consummate dancers - or they >appear to be. By spending a point of Essence, they can make themselves >look to be dancing perfectly for the situation, and gain +1 to their >Perception in order to get someone to dance with them. (This one sounds >odd, but it's based off of the Mercurian power.) See my confusion above... >Shedite: A Shedite of Dead Monkeys may possess a number of dead monkeys >equal to the check digit of a successful Will roll, and animate them as >if they were alive, for a number of minutes equal to half of the check >digit (round down). Alternately, he may possess one dead monkey for >(check digit x 5) minutes. >Habbalah: Habbalah of Gim gain +2 to the appropriate skill for the >purpose of punishing someone for killing or mistreating a monkey. >Lilim: Lilim of Gim actually deal more with live monkeys, in that they >gain +2 to their will for the purposes of bargaining for a monkey's life >and/or well-being. In order to kill it, I presume... >Summoning Modifiers: - -Perry, KFC Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:23:06 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? >> >As for the rape comparison, I wasn't referring to being unconscious for >> x >> >period of time while the Kyrios riding you. I'm talking about KNOWING >> what >> >happened in that time period if you ever found out. >> >> For me, I saw a big difference between finding out later about it and >> actually being conscious for it. >> >> Basically, it amounts >> >to realizing that your body has been used for somebody else's purposes >> >without your consent. THAT'S the comparison I was making. The Kyrio >> >certainly would have a better perspective, but I doubt *I* would. > > Hey, if the Kyrio has sex with someone else's body, is >it rape then? ]:;:-) Woah, there's a thought. Perhaps, depending on who you ask, I can of at least one person who would say YES, but as for myself... I presume you mean, if a Kyriotate has sex while in someone else's body, rather than with, since, in order for sex to occur it's going to have to be with somebody else. I'd have to say no. Rape is an act of violence, sexual violence. If the person's body (or mind upn finding out about it) is harmed by the act, then unless the Kyriotate does something to fix it, then smack on the dissonance, I say. *I* won't be having sex while in other peoploe's bodies, not without my Host's consent, most likely my Host would not appreciate it. ("What do you mean, she's a good lay??! You slept with my wife!!!" -human talking to squirrl, guess which one is the Kyrio) - -Perry, KFC Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:25:56 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? (Having sex) >> Hey, if the Kyrio has sex with someone else's body, is >>it rape then? ]:;:-) >> > >I dunno about you but if I woke up one morning to find out that I was >pregnant and didn't remember anything about it, I'd be mildly concerned. >What if 2 Kyrio's borrow a body each (of opposite genders) and reproduce >for them, before leaving? Hmmm....might be a way to get around that whole can't have sex 'cause we're not married,yet we want a childnow problem. Wait, that's not a problem... is it? >(Was considering outlining a plot to do with an 'immaculate conception', >but I guess that might be offensive to some) Cool!!! - -Perry, KFC Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:35:17 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Sorcery Question >At 5:18 AM -0500 11/1/98, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>Okay, so... on Marches pg 62 for Focus/4 (Create Spirit Anchor) it says: >>"anything possessing a corporeal vessel is simply not affected" > >I believe that has been errata'ed to "anything possessing a Heart" >is simply not affected, for precisely the reason you point out. Ahhhh... great minds think alike. Cool, thanks. :) - -Perry, KFC Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:25:44 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Re: Sex, lies and Celestials Perry Lloyd wrote: > > Dude! That's it!!! Gabriel's PREGNANT!!! > > Whee-hee!!! Wait till my _players_ find out! >:) Err, my wife never got violent when she was pregnant... moody at times yes, but generally more sad or wistful than violent. The violent mood swings were more prevalent when she WASN'T pregnant... - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - Alternate Homepage - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:13:37 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Learning Songs >>>Why? If the Superior is capable of doing it, why not do it often? If there is an explanation of this particular bit of superior psychology in the Canticorum, fair enough,<<< There is. >>>The criticisms which come up over the IN product line can often be tracked back to insufficient use of the word 'because'.<<< And many of the criticisms can also be tracked back to insufficient knowledge (but an abundance of assumptions) on the part of the critic. - -David (I love people who bitch about how deficient a book is before it's even been published) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:56:41 +0100 (CET) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Learning Songs On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>The criticisms which come up over the IN product line can often be > tracked back to insufficient use of the word 'because'.<<< > > And many of the criticisms can also be tracked back to insufficient > knowledge (but an abundance of assumptions) on the part of the critic. Well, it's kinda hard for us who aren't in the loop to have knowledge about an unpublished book... > -David (I love people who bitch about how deficient a book is before it's > even been published) And I love people who say "All will be revealed when book X" is published without saying anything more. ;) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:07:14 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate of....DESTINY!!!! >>the way Kyrios work, the real answer should be, 'yeah, they >>can use all available skills between all appropriate >>bodies'. The 'appropriate' means no kung-fu rabbits >>or turtles gaining a bloodhound's keen tracking ability. > >Right -- if the trailer trash couch potato happens to have one >arm for some reason, he's going to be at a penalty to kung-fu >stuff. > >Further, if the other body does not have the appropriate physcial >conformation (keen nose, color-blindness or lack thereof, etc.), >then it either can't work at all, or is penalized. > >(And if the Kyrio starts possessing martial artists just for the >bennies, be sure to have Odd Things Walk In on the martial artist...) > You should be able to get them with the sheer noise that they'll be making singing all those Corp Songs of Healing. Any Kyrio pulling the trick of using martial arts through an unconditioned vessel had better sing well, too. Suddenly leaping into frenzied combat after many years of inactivity is not going to be good for the host at all. There's going to be a lot of muscle trauma, and the Kyrio (using its own Strength) may not neccessarily feel it in the heat of the moment. He will feel it though in the form of dissonance when he abandons his host and the unfortunate cries out from all manner of sprains and strains. Not to mention the amount of stress placed on the most important muscle of all - the one that beats 60-72 times a minute. - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:30:37 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Breathless... Elizabeth McCoy shares her thoughts with: >At 3:28 AM +0000 11/2/98, Roland Ward wrote: >>Perry Lloyd wrote: >> >>> Here's a neat thought. How long can a Celestial hold its breath? >[...] >>I don't know - this is one of these things I like to have special about >>celestial vessel (as well as neverneeding food and not ageing) - that they >>can't actually drown per se. > >Well, they can -- they have to breathe. (Under the Vessels side-box >on p. 48, 2nd paragraph.) > >Yes, they can stay under for a long time in that special healing mud >from Night Music -- that's a Mud property. [Fluff] "What in the HELL are they doing down there?" said Joe as he got outta his two door rusted "rouge" pick-up truck. "Beats me," replied his pal Billy. "Well, what did they said they wuz doin'" "Muddin'" Hee hee hee... - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:10:26 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of which... At 12:39 AM -0500 11/3/98, Perestroika wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: > >> I can't quote the exact place this is mentioned. I'm pretty sure it's >> in the core book though (which explains why it's location is >> obscure...). I think it may be in the description of Word-bound early >> on. Elizabeth can probably say for sure where it is. > >Found it. p. 28 of the main book, second column, first paragraph. It >implies that yes, Word-bound celestials have Servitor attunements but >not Choir/Band attunements. > >So my question stands: Where's the line between a standard Word-bound >celestial and an Archangel/Demon Prince? A quantum leap in State Of Being. One is a 18-Force (max) celestial, and the other is a Superior. Probably has something to do with being able to manipulate someone so that you get an *interaction* between Band/Choir Nature and the Word. A Servitor Attunement has no interaction with Nature, and only partakes of the Word. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:54:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Learning Songs On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Peter Witney wrote: > I suspect that superiors don't want humans running around with amazing > abilities. They are less easy to find (no hearts and cause less > disturbance) less easy to control (conflicting duties) and, being human, a > lot more corruptable and dangerous. Angels are all *that* much less corruptible than humans. It can happen to the best of them, and when they go their heart cracks anyway. But I see the point, especially for the less human-friendly Superiors. On the other hand, I know for a fact that all cats learn Celestial Charm at an early age. > Adding too many "because"s would damage the game, leaving GMs with less > room to manoeuver and taking away some important fuzzy areas of the genre. I'm not convinced. Those who deviate from canon often need to explain the differences (e.g. to players who have read the books), and it is easier to do so the fewer basic assumptions are made in those books. This is why your points and Walter's were useful. > I don't find anything wrong with rules dictates from on high, as long as > they are put there for playability and subject to alteration after > play-testing. I don't think that there is any such thing as a rules-dictate from on high, unless you are writing for the series. What I usually want to know is why SJGames thought it was a good idea, to help decide whether I think it's a good idea. I don't know whether this applies in general to the book-buying market, though. > In this case, free allocation of songs to humans would seriously alter the > balance of power in the game, reducing the mystique and strength of > celestials. If you want humans to have songs, let them use song grenades > (liber reliquium). Wuh? How do grenades preserve the mystique of songs? I lumped them in the 'silly things' category: "It looks like a big one, Jim. Give me Celestial Charm, with Song of Thunder on the side." "I'm all out of Celestial Charm, Bob. I can do you Corp Charm, though, and a nice little Ethereal Entropy I got in just last week." Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:05:29 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Kyriotates-careless children? > A friend of mine pointed out that the real RAPISTS among the Kyriotates are >the ones who serve Yves. They just don't borrow your body. They borrow your >mind as well. Sure, you don't remember it, but you've still had an alien being >rifling through your memories and dirty little secrets. Whether he used them >against you or not doesn't matter. (A good Kyriotate wouldn't, anyway) He >knows them. If the person somehow found this out, I think he'd feel violated. > I know that all Shedim can do this. You expect it of them. > Yours, > Brian A. Rogers - -sigh- you know, when it comes to Angels, I just don't envision them as rapists, violaters, and destroyers. That's the Demons (and the Malakim, at least in terms of destruction). Go back over what it means to be Angelic. Also, If one night woke up suddenly to find myself outside of my dorm, yes, at first I might be (a) confused and (b) concerned, but then, upon looking up to the window of my room I saw that flames were pouring out of it and realized that the whole building was on fire, I think I'd be thanking my lucky stars that SOMEHOW I got out. (via Possession of Kyriotate) As for being ridden for several days, yes, it would be unnerving to lack a few days of memories, but since I knew that I was being possess by an ANGEL OF HEAVEN, I'd assume that it would be okay. Besides, it would be dissonant for the Kyriotate to leave me in state worse when when it found me. If it left me, oh, confused to the point where I couldn't function, that'd be probably be dissonant. Also, I would RATHERbe ridden by an Angel that had access to my memories so that it would be better able to pretend to be me, otherwise, my social life might just be impaired a bit. "Gee, Perry, you were acting REALLY strange last week." as opposed to "You're were possessed? I couldn't tell the difference." Oh, there's a neat thought. "These Demons don't know what we've possessed their servants with new Folger's Kyriotate Crystals, let's see if they can tell the difference." - -sigh- Angels as rapists... well, whatever floats your boat, I suppose, just don't expect it to be true in MY campaign... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1004 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.