From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Nov 29 18:39:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA00998 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:39:32 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA24212 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:29:53 -0600 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:29:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199811300029.SAA24212@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1026 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, November 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1026 In this digest: IN> Lovely Spaaam! Wonderful Spaaam! etc... Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers IN> Stupid Balseraph Tricks... Re: IN> Stupid Balseraph Tricks... IN> !! Wanted Home Product Assemblers !! IN> Atheists in IN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:19:13 From: "Paul" Subject: IN> Lovely Spaaam! Wonderful Spaaam! etc... Given the recent influx of erm... preprocessed pork & ham... which got me thinking. Far to late at night for me to actually be thinking BTW. SPAM related adventure(s): Orc, the Angel of Networks word is being beseiged by the Demon of spam. (can't remember name off top of my head...) Networks are all well and good... when they work properly and are not being overloaded by excess quantities of useless junk. They are both increasing the offensive against the other. hooks: E-mail being received is of a dubious nature... linked in someway to the oppostition (wouldn't be so simple as to use the originating address? @hotmail.com for instance?) The occasional attachments run themselves and do weird things(tm). A company-corporation-anything with network & e-mail (your choice) is offering a good thing(tm) for your side, It is loosing business, customers etc from an inability to utilise it's network. The email system which it relies on is overloaded, unusable see above A character, his attuned or assigned ward is receiving mail. Spam is blocking the stuff he really wants. Through simple annoyance he decides to do something about it... this might be so simple as to make the service offered so dubious it's illegal (this is where I started BTW) The characters simply get asked by a superior (their superior not SUPERIOR) to help. Alternative their SUPERIOR asks(?) them. More Jean-Vapula-ish. Looking back I think this is SPAM? Oh well... and now for something completely different. Paul What you don't know the words? Lovely Spaaam! Wonderful Spaaam! Lovely Spaaam! Wonderful Spam. Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am. Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am. Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am. Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am. Lovely Spaaam! (Lovely Spam!) Lovely Spaaam! (Lovely Spam!) Lovely Spaaam! Spaaam, Spaaam, Spaaam, Spaaaaaam! attributed to Monty Python... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:53:45 +1100 From: KC Subject: Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers - --------------54014545EAB8319F2C8ECA52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G'day All I'm a newbie to this list and just like to say Hi and put my input into the Pagan Soldier Debate... As a new player to IN (I haven't even ran a game yet... WOW, I just realised) I probably don't know as much as you guys, but hey... Here goes: IMO I'd say that the reason Pagan Soldiers are 'Restricted' to Eth songs is, being Ethereal, their employers/superiors/god's/whatever's knowledge is basically the Ethereal side of the Symphony. I'd assume that this means that the Major Ethereal Spirits know all Ethereal and Ethereal Related songs (i.e. all forms of the song of Dreaming) as well a a few Corporeal songs (esp. if they have a vessel) and maybe one or two Celestial ones (Though not likely unless they've had dealings with Celestials). Therefore, the Generic Pagan soldier would only start off with the Spirits Ethereal songs and the rest should be up to the GM. Personally, I'd make the Characters stick to Ethereal and Dream songs at Character creation, and then maybe award other songs that the Ethereal might know for exceptional service. As for Celestial Soldiers, I'd say the same general approach applies... I don't understand why Soldiers wouldn't be able to learn non-Corp songs, because aren't they basically weak Celestials that are bonded to their bodies? They have less Forces, but I'd say their souls are much the same (Their just not dead yet)... What does make sense is that Celestials only Teach them Corp songs for one reason or another (Couldn't be bothered, As a general rule because of a past mishap, whatever). Again I'd say stick to the rules at character creation and then perhaps award other songs in game... I probably just rambled on about something I have not much knowledge of, so feel free to pick it to pieces and point out my mistakes... How else am I gunna learn, huh? ; ) Casey, Balser... Ummm... Seraphim... of Gabriel... Yeah... No really I am!! P.S I currently get the Digest version of this mail list... I'd like to get the full, but won't that give me 80 email a day or something? - --------------54014545EAB8319F2C8ECA52 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G'day All

I'm a newbie to this list and just like to say Hi and put my input into the Pagan Soldier Debate...

As a new player to IN (I haven't even ran a game yet... WOW, I just realised) I probably don't know as much as you guys, but hey... Here goes:

IMO I'd say that the reason Pagan Soldiers are 'Restricted' to Eth songs is, being Ethereal, their employers/superiors/god's/whatever's knowledge is basically the Ethereal side of the Symphony. I'd assume that this means that the Major Ethereal Spirits know all Ethereal and Ethereal Related songs (i.e. all forms of the song of Dreaming) as well a a few Corporeal songs (esp. if they have a vessel) and maybe one or two Celestial ones (Though not likely unless they've had dealings with Celestials). Therefore,  the Generic Pagan soldier would only start off with the Spirits Ethereal songs and the rest should be up to the GM. Personally, I'd make the Characters stick to Ethereal and Dream songs at Character creation, and then maybe award other songs that the Ethereal might know for exceptional service.

As for Celestial Soldiers, I'd say the same general approach applies... I don't understand why Soldiers wouldn't be able to learn non-Corp songs, because aren't they basically weak Celestials that are bonded to their bodies? They have less Forces, but I'd say their souls are much the same (Their just not dead yet)... What does make sense is that Celestials only Teach them Corp songs for one reason or another (Couldn't be bothered, As a general rule because of a past mishap, whatever). Again I'd say stick to the rules at character creation and then perhaps award other songs in game...

I probably just rambled on about something I have not much knowledge of, so feel free to pick it to pieces and point out my mistakes... How else am I gunna learn, huh? ; )

Casey, Balser... Ummm... Seraphim... of Gabriel... Yeah... No really I am!!

P.S I currently get the Digest version of this mail list... I'd like to get the full, but won't that give me 80 email a day or something? - --------------54014545EAB8319F2C8ECA52-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:26:16 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers KC wrote: > G'day All Ah, always nice to see a fellow Antipodean. > As a new player to IN (I haven't even ran a game yet... WOW, I just > realised) I probably don't know as much as you guys, but hey... Here > goes: I've run exactly _one_ campaign of IN, which lasted about 10 sessions (BLATANT PLUG: It's available on the INC, it's called "Too Too Solid Flesh", and it's set in Australia). I haven't run any IN since then. So don't think of me as any kind of expert. > As for Celestial Soldiers, I'd say the same general approach > applies... I don't understand why Soldiers wouldn't be able to learn > non-Corp songs, because aren't they basically weak Celestials that are > bonded to their bodies? They have less Forces, but I'd say their souls > are much the same (Their just not dead yet)... Ah, no. Bear in mind that Celestials ARE NOT HUMANS AND HAVE NEVER BEEN HUMANS (is that too much emphasis? Sorry) - they are a _seperate_ 'race' to humanity (as are Ethereal spirits). Soldiers have an extra Force bestowed upon them by their Superior (and rare humans are born with a 6th Force naturally), but this does _not_ mean they are Celestials. Humans don't _ever_ become Celestials. They _can_ become Saints or Undead, which are 'super-humans', but still aren't Celestials. > What does make sense is that Celestials only Teach them Corp songs for > one reason or another (Couldn't be bothered, As a general rule because > of a past mishap, whatever). Again I'd say stick to the rules at > character creation and then perhaps award other songs in game... Canon ruling, as of the upcoming Songbook, is that humans can only be made capable of using non-Corporeal Songs if they receive the Ethereal Connection Attunement from their Superior - and bestowing this Attunement is a non-trivial application of the Superior's time, effort and Essence. Dream Soldiers are thus rare, and Soliders who can use Celestial Songs are rarer still (and if they're 'balanced' characters, have 10 fewer character points to spend on the Songs they can now use). Or they can become a Saint (through merit) or Undead (through foolishness) after their death - at which point they are no longer a human being. > P.S I currently get the Digest version of this mail list... I'd like > to get the full, but won't that give me 80 email a day or something? More like about 3-10 a day at this point. Traffic used to be a _lot_ heavier when this list was young, but familiarity with the system means a lot less need to discuss rules and suchlike. Ask questions - we need the practice in answering (well, I do anyway). - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia There is always room on TV for a man who can beat people to jelly in nine flat... HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 04:16:20 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Stupid Balseraph Tricks... Something amusing came up during the course of my most recently finished campaign (game logs are being polished up, and will post the URL soon), involving my more favored of the bands. };::> The Setup: - --------- A Balseraph of the Game (one of the antagonists) and a group of minor Gamesters (all 7 Force demons), have a Malakim of Creation trapped in the town's principle Arcade. Noting that her Attuned (the Malakim) is in serious danger, a Cherub of Novalis rushes to Arcade with her Free Lilim companion (who is currently under Geas by Yves to assist the angels). Stopped by a securely locked door, and sensing the need of the Cherub to aid her charge, the Lilim offers to remove the door so her companion can do her job (Yves never said that Geases couldn't be acquired during the process };::> ). Bursting onto the scene of impending conflict, the Cherub calms almost everyone with the Ethereal song of Harmony. Of the frothing lot, only one successfully resists the songs effects to cause Violence. The Balseraph... ...Who just happened to succeed by rolling an Angelic Intervention. Turning on his former underlings, and thereby gaining dissonance, the Balseraph proceeds to trounce upon the demons and allow the angels to escape. Displeased with his Servitor's actions, the Demon Prince of the Game himself arrives in a Black Limo to take the Balseraph back to Hell for 'debriefing'. Discord and more Dissonance is inflicted at this point. Seeking to redeem himself in his master's eyes, the Balseraph deludes himself into believing he is a Seraph of Judgment. His mission is to 'acquire' an Outcast Ofanim of Fire that the angels have been trying to follow, and the Free Lilim. Naturally using the Angels to do all the work for him... The Stupid Trick: - ---------------- If it wasn't already painfully obvious, the fact that the Balseraph deluded himself into believing he was of Judgment had the potential to blow things up on many levels. Not only did it risk dissonance (or worse) from Asmodeus, but it also had the potential to make the Demon redeem. Granted, this probably wouldn't be something you see often. But it fit quite well for the Story I was crafting. Anyone else do something similar for their campaign? Heck, anyone else have tales of Stupid Balseraph Tricks? (Which I seem to keep coming up with since I joined this list.) - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph Marquis of Fate, Demon of Delusions of Granduer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:04:28 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Balseraph Tricks... At 10:16 AM 11/29/98 , Tafka J. wrote: > Granted, this probably wouldn't be something you see often. But it fit >quite well for the Story I was crafting. Anyone else do something similar >for their campaign? Heck, anyone else have tales of Stupid Balseraph >Tricks? (Which I seem to keep coming up with since I joined this list.) I direct your attention to a Douglas Adams book (Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, I think) which contains a wonderful character called the Electronic Monk. He/it has been built to express belief, so that the crew of a starship don't have to bother with religion. Unfortunately, when the crew doesn't want to venture out into a dangerous world to fix the ship, they send the Electronic Monk instead. He BELIEVES that the ship's drive is fixed (which it isn't). It goes critical. Why do I mention this? It is because I never thought I'd see an RPG example of this nature- until a boasting Balseraph appeared. Having thrust doubters aside, he was slightly embarrassed to find he couldn't defuse a bomb, so he BELIEVED he had (once he had left the room) and told all his accomplices so. Obviously, he gained dissonance when his lie was revealed, but as he and half of his group were in Trauma immediately afterwards, it didn't have as much of a sting as usual. Pete (If you like D. Adam's rather cynical style, I recommend both of this series: 'Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency' and ' The Long Dark TeaTime of the Soul'. They contain a remarkably celestial idea: 'the interconnectiveness of all things' which the detective ascribes to.) Peter Witney peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:01:27 EST From: Athena7868@aol.com Subject: IN> !! Wanted Home Product Assemblers !! *****This is a one time Mailing. You will not receive mail from us again.***** Looking for Home Product Assemblers!! How would you like to Assemble Products at Home & get Paid! Choose your own Hours! Be your own Boss! Easy Work! Excellent Pay! Earn Hundreds of Dollars Weekly! Here are just a few examples of the work you will have to choose from: Wooden Products - up to $220.00 Weekly! Hair Accessories - up to $320.00 Weekly! Holiday Crafts - up to $270.00 Weekly! Beaded Accessories - up to $350.00 Weekly! ........Plus many others. There are over 75 Companies to choose from! Why not enjoy the Benefits and Freedom of Home Assembly Work! To find out more Call.....Toll Free (24 Hour Recording) 1-888-289-9708. U.S. Publishing Co. P.O. Box 633 Rocky Mount NC 27802 Name ___________________________________________ Address ___________________________________________ City & State ___________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:27:43 -0800 From: Greg Jensen Subject: IN> Atheists in IN Greetings! I'm new to this list, having just read In Nomine. I wanted to ask what the opinion is about atheism in In Nomine. I mean, the dichotomy seems to be (I know it's actually a bit more complex, but basically: for God, and benevolent; or against God and selfish/evil. Now what about an atheistic humanist? They certainly wouldn't be following the will of God. I also don't think you could really call them selfish, and definitely not evil. What would happen, for example, if a demon truly wanted peace and prosperity for others, but thought that religion interfered with that goal, and therefore was opposed to faith in God? Would he become renegade, or even ascend? Or is this a legitimate (albeit not selfish or evil) goal for a demon? On a related note, is there any source (or plans for such) to introduce Grigori PCs (the ultimate humanists). Greg Jensen http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~gjensen/gregpage.htm ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1026 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.